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grain-my-beloved · 3 years

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For real though watching yhs has lead me to the conclusion that despite Grian seemingly has such an active fight instinct....most of the time he actually doesnt respond to situations with half the fight attributed to him.

When faced with a traumatic situation Grian will absolutely bare his teeth at the nearest threat. He's absolutely vitriolic towards Sam at all times without fail and has even initiated physical violence in their confrontations once or twice. He's often on edge, often quick to angry outbursts, just overall rather hostile when faced with a dangerous/frightening/harmful situation. Which definitely indicates his main response to these scenarios is to fight. Hard.

However the more I engaged with fanon the more I faltered. A lot of fanon does portray him as very hostile in the face of trouble. Which should make sense. Canonically Grian knows when to say no, when to argue, and even sometimes when to physically fight back. Any episode with Grian present will likely have examples of him pushing back against harmful situations. And yet something always feels very Off about that being the start and end of it in a lot of fanon. Which led me down an interesting line of thinking.

I honestly suspect that Grian's volatility and will to fight back isn't nearly as strong as one would believe from observing him on surface level. In fact, his on the surface hostility feels like it's borderline a facade altogether to be honest.

I mean look at examples throughout canon of Grian in distressing situations.

Yhs halloween episode. The one where Taurtis got stabbed. And the following situation where Grian is famously forced to dress up like Taurtis. Grian would later be very upset about Sam stabbing Taurtis, however his initial response was to nervously laugh and even give Sam appeasing praise. I mean, Grian says "you weren't supposed to stab him" pretty clearly, but he anxiously laughs before and afterwards and even tells Sam he's proud of him when prompted. Obviously Grian was very upset about the whole thing later on after taking Taurtis to the hospital however in the moment he's mostly silent and when he's not he's just nervously laughing throughout, even agreeing with whatever *Sam* says when he's outright prompted by name for an opinion, then when everyone else tries to play it off casually Grian actually goes along with it almost entirely, even agreeing to let Taurtis drive him home for some reason. Then, according to his own story, he had an opportunity to talk to police at the hospital and he didn't incriminate Sam. He knew they were supicious of *him* but he still didn't incriminate the actual killer. "I told them I found him like that" Grian alleged. Honestly it sounds like he didn't tell them much of *anything* before being released and making the walk back to meet Sam. The next morning Grian was significantly more vocally upset about Taurtis being stabbed and expressed being upset with Sam however he seemed significantly more anxious than he was angry throughout the interaction. Then Grian immediately pretty readily agreed to go with Sam and Yuki to school and willingly put on the Taurtis outfit before the other's even started with the threats in the name of making things 'less awkward'. He certainly objected, however he was once again a lot more anxious than angry, nervously laughing, coming up with really weak unimportant excuses, and agreeing within ten seconds of being asked. Pretty much the rest of his time dressed as Taurtis goes very similarly. He objects to most things he's told to do and brings up Sam stabbing Taurtis multiple times despite the other's not wanting him to but is primarily nervous rather than hostile and he never actuslly puts up enough resistence for it to stick. Even when the other's were stuffing plastic down his throat and he told them he thought it may kill him Grian still did it and told the other's he *liked* it when pushed. Eventually he got out of it by running on Rowan's command and no sooner than being told to get out of there. When Sam found him again Grian immediately even reverted back to doing as he was told and cowering away from him in obvious fear up until Okami and Rowan showed up and shoved Grian behind them. Then he *still went home that night* knowing Sam would be there. When they found Taurtis it was pretty clear that Grian was hoping Taurtis would help him once he got his memory back however when instructed to stop telling Taurtis who he was Grian for the most part did aside from subtle pushing about the familiarity of certain things and then later when Taurtis got his memory back and made it pretty clear he wasn't going to help Grian? Grian conceded. He spent a good few minutes arguing about everything he'd gone through- everything they both had- and insisting it wasn't okay but when Taurtis made it pretty clear he wasn't going to do anything and they collectively agreed Grian was the real problem? Grian kinda...stopped. When Taurtis made it clear he wasn't going to be helping, Grian just kinda fell back into their normal routine with the other's, and when Sam demanded an 'apology soda' from Grian for what he'd apparently done, Grian bought it for him saying "If that's what it takes for things to go back to normal".

Let's also look at Grian's involvement with the law during/shortly-after the Halloween situation. When Sam and Yuki dragged him to join the Yakuza he was upset and objected anxiously but caved as soon as he got pushback. When Sam wanted to steak from the Yakuza he once again got objections from Grian who nervously insisted that it was a terrible idea but once again Sam shoved aside Grian's complaints and once again Grian just kinda fell into place despite being upset. When the police also started threatening the trio's lives to work for them, Grian objected. He questioned if they were allowed to do that and was very openly not happy about any of it, however he very quickly submitted under pressure. Both times Grian was locked in solitary confinement he loudly protested his sanity and both times he voiced how disturbing it was on a really deep level being locked up like that but both times when he was let out he just went with the other two again and let them brush it all off- even knowing full well they let him out to be *death fodder*. He just went with them relatively quietly save for maybe a token remark or two. Honestly the large majority of this bs Grian was involved with was under physical threat and he almost always bent under it. Even down to his fight with Pie over Ellen. Pie showed up and started challenging their relationship. Sam, Taurtis, and Yuki insisted they have a knife fight. Grian said *no*. Pie said yes. Sam, Taurtis, and Yuki affirmed there would be a knife fight. Grian objects more. Everyone else present discusses how the knife fight will work. Grian gets stabbed. Grian suggests they just ask Ellen who they want to date *obviously*. Ellen chooses nobody and leaves. Grian was upset but then just kinda accepts it and goes on with what the whole group was doing before.

And just to round this out with one more example. The Starwars Cosplay Incident. Apparently Sam burst into Grian's room, undressed him, shoved him into Leia Cosplay complete with fake boobs, and locked him in the basement for three days. Grian sits there for three days until Taurtis rescues him. Grian has a moment of being rightfully very angry and finally even tries to physically attack Sam, demanding to know if Taurtis is aware of what Sam did to him and insisting that they can't expect everything to be fine now. Except it kinda...was. Taurtis stopped Grian from attacking Sam, they both brushed it off as a joke and not a big deal, and then they went to school. And Grian just *went*. He walked with the other two, he wore the outfit Sam put him in, and he just kinda moved on. Grian would later object when the clones tried to pull him out of class, snapping that he just wants to learn and get an education like a normal person and demanding to know why he's not allowed to. But he goes! And when he's released he walks right back to Sam and Taurtis, makes some bitter remarks to them, and let's them shove it all aside as if it's unimportant. Later when it's Grian, Sam, and a member of school staff alone in the closet, some innapropriate remarks are made to Grian. He very quickly says he's reporting the remarks made by school staff but Sam tells him not to be rude and it doesn't seem Grian ever does. Later on when Geode makes a comment about Grian's outfit as well Sam and Taurtis start pondering *giving* Grian to them. Grian repeatedly said *no* but with a lot more despair than defiance and we don't even know if he'd have actually followed through with fighting back if they'd tried to actually give him away because they were interrupted before the situation got to that point. Grian once again just let the other's move on as if that didn't happen and continued following them around, though! And he wore that damn outfit he was very explicitly uncomfortable with. All day.

Which is kinda all to say that when it comes to fighting back Grian is a lot more bark than bite.

Grian throws out a lot of bitter remarks, makes his objections very apparent in most things, and even has more than one vitriolic rant to his abuser(s) throughout the series. But that layer of his responses to things is so fragile that it tends to fall away within minutes- if that, sometimes *seconds*.

Of course ive seen other people take note of this and argue that it means Grian actually *wants* to do these thingd he's objecting to but I think that's silly. If it were just things like group crime or violent acts then id possibly see it but Grian puts up the same kind of response to having plastic shoved down his throat and to being locked in the basement for days which there's no way in hell he was any kind of okay with. The more likely scenario here isn't that he secretly wanted to do any of these things and made his resistence weak so he could pretend he tried while still doing it.

The likely scenario here is that his fight response is much more for show than one would think. Because Grian's strongest most influential response to things really never seems to be to fight. Aggression is really hardly Grian's overall stance on handling a distressing situation.

Much more frequently you see the most influence coming from completely other instinctive responses.

Looking for outside help in adults, friends, and classmates like when Okami and Rowan protected him during his time dressed as Taurtis or when Grian tried desperately to get Taurtis to be on his side and help him after Sam seriously hurt him both when Taurtis first got his memory back after Halloween and when Taurtis found Grian in the basement during the Starwars Cosplay Incident, hell, even during his fight with Pie it can be argued that Grian calling for them to just ask Ellen was an appeal to outside help as he hoped Ellen would agree to end the fight and save him from the situation as a result.

Running away- or trying to at least- from the threat. Most notably seen back during the halloween incident when he quite literally ran out the back of the gym and hid from Sam+Yuki then hiding behind Okami and Rowan when they showed up in an attempt to flee from Sam which is how he got away from the other's at all during that situation. Grian's consistent need to exclaim every so often how much he wants to go back to Europe is a subtler example of this, though, of Grian's urge to get away.

Honestly though being quiet and moving as he's directed seems to be the most common winning response. You see little sparks of reaction from him but most of the time Grian is just quiet, nervously laughing, following Taurtis and Sam around in what they ask of him, and even outright appeasement strategies to maintain a calm environment. This is So common from Grian. This is what usually wins out. His quiet nervous laughter and agreeing with Sam when Taurtis is first stabbed. The fact that he didn't tell the police what Sam did when alone with them during questioning and then immediately walked to meet up with Sam and went to school with Sam+Yuki with literally no objections. The fact that he didn't say no like *at all* to putting on the Taurtis outfit in the name of not making things awkward and complied within seconds of first being asked. How he proceeded to do what he was asked all day and didn't make any move to get away until Rowan outright instructed him to run. The fact that he went back! The fact that he went along with it when they joined the Yakuza and when they stole from the Yakuza and when they joined up with the cops and when they *forced him into a knife fight*. How Grian eventually just lost his spark of defiance after Taurtis first got his memories back and made it clear he wasn't helping Grian, with Grian agreeing to buy Sam a fucking *apology soda* if it meant things would go back to normal after hearing everyone else agree that *he* was the problem in all he'd been put through. The way he just goes back to following Sam and Taurtis after they got him locked in solitary confinement on blatant lies because they *wanted* to. The way he walks around school with the other two while wearing cosplay that made him feel gross and uncomfortable that Sam had literally physically forced onto him and just went along with what he was told in the end.

Grian always puts up a fight but not a good one. He makes side comments, he makes objections, he even has more than one emotional rant about the hell he's put through, however this never wins out in the end and this presenting fight is very frequently just barely holding down much stronger freeze and fawn instincts that usually win out pretty damn quick.

Which!!! In a situation like Grian's it actually makes significantly more sense to have strong freeze and fawn responses than to have a strong fight response! I mean, think about it. A fight response is primarily useful in scenarios in which it's possible to take strong action to remove the threat. You're attacked by a dog so you throw stuff at it till it backs away. You're picked on by an upperclassman so you punch em' in the nose expecting fully that they'll leave you be after. Someone attacks you while you're walking home so you try and stab them with your key. Fighting is an incredibly good response for random/one time attacks. If you're ever kidnapped you wanna scream and punch and kick and make a scene so they can't take you to a secondary location. You fight. Fighting is optimal for unexpected stranger conflicts. That's not the situation Grian's in though. Grian suffers from serious long term physical, emotional, and financial abuse. He's in a country he doesn't have residency or family in, he doesn't have a readily available source of income, he doesn't have his own mode of transportation, it seems that most of the time he doesnt have a clear way home, he's often dealing with long term friends of his and seemingly his biggest source of support prior to this situation, even back in Europe he doesn't have much support system to run to given his parents canonically left him, he's frequently under threat of physical danger, etc. This is not the kind of situation in which an intense primary fight response helps. This is the type of situation in which an intense primary fight response either gets you seriously hurt or wandering the streets with no way to provide for yourself. It would likely be similar if he presented an intense primary flight response to be honest. In long term abuse situations where there's no rational way of escaping safely or no rational place to escape to? Often the primary responses that promote survival are fawn and freeze. Appeasing the aggressor or sinking into the background. Those are your ways to stay alive when you can't expect to 'win' or escape. It absolutely makes more sense for Grian to have primary fawn and freeze responses than a primary fight response.

But then why does he present so much hostility? What's with all the bitter remarks and the attempts to voice objections and the occasional overt insults/screaming? How does a fawn/freeze response present as fight when first pressed at?? Well fun fact, I have experience with that kind of presentation because I *was* that kind of presentation. Oh boy did I try to push strong fight responses towards my abusive father with token resistences and petty remarks even though most of the time I crumpled under the slightest pressure and spent my time ignoring the problem or dissociating or trying very hard to avoid future conflicts. You put up a token front of fight even if that's never going to be your primary response for the sake of your own mental health, really. To assure the world- and *you*- knows that you don't *want* this situation. So you can say you tried. Out of some misguided hope that your attempted bravado won't be seen through and that maybe this time they'll just stop pushing instead of calling the bluff. Which. Makes sense with Grian as well. I mean looking at the times he really truly goes off before reverting back to a more appeasing stance, most notably his rants from when Taurtis first got his memory back as well as from when he got out of the basement during the Starwars Cosplay Incident. Most of those rants were taken up by Grian loudly and passionately reiterating what he'd been through, insisting he was the victim, and calling Sam an awful person before the defiance fades out and he becomes more willing to just go about their day. It's one attempted push hoping the other parties present will vie in his favour and a reassertion that he's not okay with this and that *he* is being hurt which gives way within minutes to a much duller attitude. That's just a painfully familiar format. Adding on Grian's token objections/passive aggressive remarks to many situations that distress him and how quickly those objections give way as dismissed by others. That kind of behaviour feels strongly like an attempt to preserve your own mental wellbeing as much as possible with the knowledge that you tried to some extent and with just generally hearing out loud that you are the victim even if from yourself. Grian's behaviour just really feels like a facade of defiance to cover up general helplessness which makes a Lot of sense for the scenario. Probably more than just plain defiance would.

#yhs #yandere highschool #yhs grian #long post

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blufox234isadumbname · 3 years

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Why does no one ever talk about the abuse C!Tommy did to Dream? Tommy ruined everything C!Dream worked for when he first entered the world. He found it funny to break the rules and to drive C!Dream down a dark path. And then he hated it when c!Dream finally did something back. C!Tommy also murdered Dream twice. With every intention to kill him the third and final time… c!Dream isn’t perfect but c!Tommy practically caused his downfall but it doesn’t get talked about.

ok imma just- roll up my c!tommy apologist sleeves *ahem*

here's my response to this:

(All mention of members of the Dream SMP are characters, not the actual content creators behind them unless stated otherwise with the cc! tag, this is all within Minecraft roleplay and not reflective of the actual people

This also mentions the Exile Arc, which has themes of suicide and abusive relationships. If the subject is of discomfort, please scroll away)

I'm assuming that the first part is in reference to the early stages of the Dream SMP era, like in the same-ish month-long period when cc!Tommy joined (and officially when Tommy emerged to be a part of the slowly forming story at that point). This era of the Dream SMP is a little hard to gauge in terms of morals since the distinction of what's canon and non-canon just don't exist. At this point, it was before fully fleshed out characters were introduced, just the CCs as themselves messing around in a Minecraft server. Hence, a lot of the aspects, such as violence and psychological effects, of current DSMP lore aren't seen in the same serious regard during this era. It is still a part of lore but it's not to be really seen as "serious" - not unimportant but not exactly the most grounded in logic. Though, the word "abuse" is incredibly harsh to describe the early stages of the Dream SMP. It just implies Tommy deliberately causing trouble out of pure malice. The things that Tommy was at fault for don't refelct that kind of intention, most were the result of the first Disc War - which was instigated by Dream stealing the discs first. Other things were harmless pranks, not really meant to break someone's psyche. There was the conflict that occurred reflect the burning of Ponk's lemon tree but again no actual mind-breaking stuff happened on either Dream's end, just annoyance

Later on in the L'manburg era, again no sort of malice is shown. Dream was the one insistent on starting a war over L'Manburg's independence, Tommy has just pulled along and stood with Wilbur during the confrontations. The most consistent thing in the early eras of Dream SMP lore and early L'manburg is that Dream is seen to be the bad guy, though not as the malevolent force in more recent Dream SMP lore. He was more like a bully if anything, starting conflict to get what he needs and keep things under his control. Post-War and such had Dream be less of a threat and more of that one begrudging chaperone that hates a certain group of kids, also known as the L'manburgians. Dream was more cartoon villain than the careless monster he is presented during the more recent storylines.

So to say Tommy to be the reason for Dream's turn into a genuine and serious threat is false. If anything, Dream's own downfall through the storyline was mostly his own doing rather than someone else's. Again, the Disc War was started by Dream himself stealing the discs and holding them as leverage and the war for L'manburg's independence was caused by Dream's own insistence otherwise. No other force beckoned him to do so, just his own want to control the happenings on the SMP. Around Manburg's and Pogtopia's formation, Dream was acting out of interest of the SMP that he has power over, which included siding for the act of chaos and subsequent power that comes from it. Again, all out of his own volition, not a single person convinced him to not chase the promise of control. He could've just declined the Revival Book from Schlatt yet he accepted the bribe anyway. Same with letting Wilbur having the TNT and dethroning Eret.

It's already established during Tommy's Exile arc that Dream was already becoming a vile person, pushing away any close alliance aside from hiring Punz - even then, it was only a business relationship rather than one forged in close bond. All the things that led to Dream's descent into a more immoral person were his own choice. That included deliberately secluding and messing with Tommy during his exile. The entire arc was about the growing abusive relationship with Dream as the manipulator and Tommy as the victim. From destroying any armour and items Tommy had in order to prevent any way for retaliation, feigning friendliness to gain Tommy's trust and cutting off Tommy from any other source of support, Dream made the entirety of Exile a traumatic experience filled with conflicting feelings and depression. Even near the beginning, with the scene of Tommy looking down at lava in the Nether, Tommy already showed signs of decline in mental health. That was only further proven by the scene where Tommy attempted to jump off the dirt pillar.

Tommy had gone through hell yet managed to pull through, realised what he had experienced was abuse and headed off towards Technoblade's home in search of a better place of shelter. His leave from exile was healthy but doesn't diminish the sense of anger he had towards Dream. Even when his stance on Dream at the time was conflicting, still regressing back to the same belief Dream was his friend, he still held a hatred for Dream. That was further strengthened when he was able to overcome fears that stemmed from Exile, such as heights and Logstedshire itself. The finale to the Disc War began and Tommy was back to being played around by Dream, being threatened and forced to give up his items all over again. All the build-up then leads to almost everyone on the server entering through the Nether portal and Tommy finally getting revenge.

The scene where Dream was being killed until his last and final life wasn't just Tommy getting revenge, everyone else was backing him up. Most people on the server were fed up with Dream's doings, they all wanted Dream gone. It was only because Dream held something of importance, the Revival Book, that they wanted to spare him. Tommy's want to kill his abuser and enemy wasn't out of his own desire, it was fueled by everyone else's anger towards Dream too - which was further reinforced by the wall of important attachments that Dream intended to use against everyone else.

Moral ethics of whether death is justified in a Minecraft roleplay aside, Dream's death was simply akin to the downfall of any other villain. He was made within the story of that season to be unempathetic, with the lack of a perspective to see his side of things. It was a quality that made Dream a good villain in the first place, a villain you couldn't understand. A villain whose inner machinations were a mystery and thus made him much less like a pitiful human. To say that it was Tommy's fault that he became a villain is undercutting the purpose of Dream as a villain during that storyline of the season. It undervalues why he is a villain and genuine fear amongst others in the SMP. Additionally, saying Tommy was wrong for wanting to kill Dream undermines what he went through in exile. Disregarding the most important arc of the character just leaves an incomplete hole in him.

Hence, the reason that no one talks about Tommy being the downfall to Dream in becoming a villain is that it is untrue and completely devaluing to either character of what made them what they are in the story.

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kitkatopinions · 3 years

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I feel the need to hear your opinion on this since this is something I've been thinking about recently, and it's how crwby handles complex relationships/abuse in their show... It's infuriating.

I can't tell if they genuinely think they are writing this in a good way or if they know they're half asss-ing it and don't care since the fandom will eat it up anyways. Two big examples that come to mind for me in the last volume are emerald & cinder and whitley & jacques. In both instances the the victim never gets a moment of closure or a moment of breaking away from their abuser, nor are either victims allowed to show any sort of 'hesitance' (for a lack of a better term) related to their abuse.

Emerald (despite being all over cinder before Midnight), just conveniently forgets about her for the finale. Same for whitley. He just completely forgets about jacques (the man who manipulated him from birth) the moment weiss hugs him. On a shallow level, watching a victim pay no mind to their abuser is satisfying, but it being so immediate is just unrealistic and takes away from the pain that we are supposed to think these characters have suffered.

One of the worst things about suffering from abuse is how is affects the victims even when they have left the abusive relationship, but crwby seems to want to erase that completely from characters who should experience that for plot convenience.

It seems like the lesson learned from this is "if you were abused, just get over it and be convenient to our heroes or else!" And it's pretty gross imo.

Thoughts?

I thought that I would put these two asks together and take this opportunity to talk about the abuse victims in RWBY and how they're handled. I've tried to think long and hard about what to say about this, because this is an important topic to me and something that's personal for me. I'm an abuse survivor, but I have a complicated relationship with that part of myself and I'm never really comfortable talking about it much. But despite the fact that I've experienced abuse, I recognize that I'm not a professional sensitivity editor, not a therapist, and not someone who's studied the effects of abuse.

I'm simply writing this based on my own feelings and what I've picked up witnessing other abuse victims discuss their own feelings about abused character. There will be RWBY criticism below the keep reading. Please keep in mind that I'm not speaking for all abuse survivors and am only trying to articulate my own feelings in regards to this issue.

The first thing to note is that there isn't one, correct, right way to write an abuse victim in my opinion. Lots of people have different reactions and responses to abuse, the way they were abused is often also different, causing different reactions.

In the first anon, it's noted that Emerald and Whitley both seem to move on from their abuse quickly and with very little effect on them or their stories. Many abuse victims put their experiences on the back burner or 'in a box' to deal with later, or mask and pretend that they're alright or that their abuse just didn't happen. Some of them let their feelings or their anger simmer over time. There are also abuse victims who do just... Move on with relative ease. I'd imagine that's very rare though. (again, I'm not not an expert or any sort of psychologist.)

In the same way, an abuse victim becoming an abuser in their own interactions is something that one hundred percent happens. Cinder, Salem, Adam, and even Blake and Winter have all acted in abusive ways towards the people around them (though obviously Blake and Winter acted much less abusive than any of the villains mentioned.) It might be very hard for abuse victims to not fall back into those patterns of abuse that they've suffered, especially if they go through it at an early age. I'm not very comfortable talking about my own experiences, but myself and my siblings have all had to fight down toxic, hurtful traits that we picked up either through emulating or through survival. And it's hard to do that. Portraying characters who have been abused that lost that fight and might have abusive tendencies or slip themselves is - to me at least - sometimes even helpful in working through my own feelings.

And there are definitely one hundred percent abuse victims who feel like the way they were treated is deserved, that they 'earned' it, that they must 'make up for it.' Oz is in this category. There's nothing wrong with the concept of a character who feels responsible for their abuser or the hurt their abuser has caused to others, there’s nothing wrong with a character who tends to act as though everything is their fault and who thinks very poorly of themselves.

In theory. But the problem is that in application, there are a lot of pitfalls and struggles that come with writing for abuse victims. Understanding, thoughtfulness, and care are not the RWBY writers’ strength, and any time you portray real life issues that strongly impact the real life people involved in them, you have to be aware and careful with the messages you’re sending. This is obviously very important when someone writes for any minority or oppressed group or the issues that they face, but it’s also important to remember when you write for abuse victims, because they do have stigmas around them and deal with stereotypes and harmful portrayals as well. Let’s look at what I consider some harmful or hurtful pitfalls when it comes to abused characters.

Are the abused characters treated as the victims they are? If the abuse a character faces is treated as comical, treated as unimportant, or treated as deserved, that’s an obvious major flaw. Sad to say, but RWBY does not pass this. On two separate occasions, a character is hit by someone close to them in a way that clearly causes them some pain, with Blake hitting Sun across the face for following her, and Winter hitting Weiss for answering a question incorrectly and again for failing in her training (I tend to be more sympathetic towards Blake’s situation, as it is more gray with her clearly thinking Sun had stalked her which is a clear trigger from her own abuse, but this is an explanation, not an excuse and the fact that it was framed as funny rather than something Blake shouldn’t have done and should apologize for is the problem.) They also do not treat Ozpin like the victim when Qrow punches him in the face, having no one call Qrow out for it and having him never express guilt or try to apologize for it. Yes, I know Ozpin had retreated, but they never showed Qrow even make an effort to get Ozpin to come back so he could apologize. . They also ‘redeem’ Hazel and give him a ‘partially right’ storyline despite his openly beating Ozpin, unfairly blaming him for the death of his sister, and insisting that Ozpin deserved to be tortured. On top of this, despite having been horribly abused by the SDC, Adam isn’t treated with even an ounce of sympathy or understanding and Jacques Schnee and the SDC is treated like a more comical-ish nuisance in season seven and eight. This is greatly flawed. Hitting someone because they lied to you or kept secrets from you is not okay, hitting someone because they said something you don’t like is not okay. This should not be treated as funny and it shouldn’t be treated as the fault of the person who was hit for not being a good enough friend.

Are the abused characters mostly villains, when the heroes have never faced it? The reason for this is obvious, although it’s valid to have a villain be an abuse victim, it’s never alright to villainize abuse victims. Making the majority of your bad guys abuse victims and your good guys have positive relationships is in my opinion, harmful. Point for RWBY, this is not the case for their show. Mercury, Salem, and Cinder on the bad side are all abuse victims with Raven being a possible, but unconfirmed abuse victim as well. While Weiss, Blake, Ozpin, and Whitley are also abuse victims, with Qrow and May both being possible, but unconfirmed abuse victims, and Winter and Emerald are both abuse victims who were on the side of a villain and then turned good.

Is the abuse more severe in the ‘bad’ characters and lighter in the ‘good’ characters? If the abuse that the good guys faced is mostly lighter things and the abuse that the villains suffered is worse and more severe, that might send some bad messages that people who suffer more are automatically worse people, or ‘unsalvageable’ or ‘too broken,’ as opposed to the people that ‘there’s still hope for.’ Unfortunately, I think RWBY is almost a tie? We’ve never seen Weiss or Emerald suffer more than a hit, we don’t know for sure that Whitley or Winter were ever victims of physical abuse. Ozpin and Blake’s abuse is worse, however, as they are hunted down by their abusers who attempt to murder them, make them suffer, and hurt their loved ones. They also were heavily emotionally manipulated and victim blamed by their abusers. And on the villain side, Mercury was beat by his father who hated him and stole his semblance (an extension of your soul, I believe, in canon,) and the abuse led to the loss of his limbs. Cinder was forced to work hard labor by her abusive employer and the ‘stepsisters’ treated her badly, and she was physically electrocuted. We see her abuse extend to Salem using her Grimm arm to hurt her, copying the effects of the necklace. Adam was also a child laborer who worked in terrible conditions who got his face branded by his employer, in the SDC, which had to have been anti-faunus charged due to his bull horns. We don’t see Salem ever physically abused, but know that she was mistreated, isolated, and neglected by her ‘cruel’ father. So it’s not quite a tie, there are more severely abused characters amongst the villains than the heroes, but this is close enough that I don’t consider this much of a strike against them.

In the villains, is the abuse they faced given as ‘reason’ for their villainy? As I said before, villainizing abuse victims isn’t the way to go. A good way to avoid this - I think - is not have abuse be the sole reason for someone’s fall into a life of crime or cruelty. This is something that RWBY... Fails at imo. When showing us Mercury’s backstory, we’re introduced to him through seeing that he had just killed his abuser who cost him his legs, and then gets recruited by Cinder who at the very least likely emotionally and physically abused him the same way she did with Emerald, leading to the conclusion that the only reason he’s there at all is due to abuse. However, he’s just a teen and it’s possible that (like Emerald) he’ll be redeemed. A much more condemning story to talk about is Cinder’s. After people had been clambering for a Cinder backstory since volume three, RWBY finally showed us one. But it doesn’t include Cinder meeting Salem, why she joined her, her proving herself, none of that. Instead, Cinder’s backstory was entirely focused on her abusive situation as a child, entirely focused on her suffering. Cinder killing her abusers and then killing the teacher who decided to arrest her for getting herself out of her abusive situation was portrayed as the only needed backstory, the explanation to why she’s a power hungry, abusive, cruel, selfish, and just plain evil person. ‘She was abused’ is the explanation for why Cinder is where she is and why she is who she is in RWBY. That’s highly problematic to me.

In the heroes, are they “the Perfect, Sanitized Abuse Victims?” As I said before, there is no one type of abuse victim, but if someone has several abuse victims and they’re all either submissive, sad, and self-doubting, but gentle and caring and soft or dropped their abuser like a hotcake and never looked back, never seem affected, never really talk about it after they left... That’s bothersome to me personally. Measuring how RWBY is in this particular subject is... A little harder than I thought it would be. Let’s start by looking at the most prevalent abuse victim, Blake. She’s one of the reasons why this is hard to gauge, because for the first five seasons, Blake was deeply flawed and clearly affected by her abuse in ways that made her ‘unappealing.’ Blake was cynical, stubborn, cold, hard to get to know, she didn’t trust easily, she lashed out at her friends regularly, ran from her problems, made choices for her friends, and had a very negative self image. This didn’t stop her from being a good character and friend with a lot of good sides, too, and she had real, important friendships. This was - to me - a really great portrayal of someone clearly affected by their trauma, with lots to work on, who was still a good person. Some of her faults and problems started to get resolved in a natural way through her journey with Sun in volumes four and five, but when season six came around, many of Blake’s other traits suddenly vanished. No longer stubborn, independent, or cynical, and no longer standing up for herself, or really displaying her temper or hardheadedness or her struggles with getting to know people... Blake became more submissive, sad, self-doubting, but gentle, caring, and soft. Sigh. As the first ask mentioned, Whitley and Emerald both seemed to drop their abusers quickly the second they were removed from their lives again. it’s also worth noting that Whitley was treated with nothing but coldness and contempt by Weiss until he ‘proved himself’ by doing something selfless. Weiss did more or less drop Jacques the moment she left her house in V4, only mentioning him or her experiences when she’s using it to talk about Blake, and when she confronted him again in V7, she did so as someone who is proving she no longer cares. Ozpin seems to be the only one still unable to move on from his abuse and the ‘unappealing’ abuse victim. The first anon is right, there’s something satisfying with seeing an abuse victim move on like their abuser didn’t matter. But when almost all your abuse victims do, and one of the only other ones is turned into a submissive and soft support based / romance based character, and the only really ‘unappealing’ abuse victim is someone we’re supposed to see as ‘gray’... There’s something off there, in my opinion.

Were the abuse victims treated respectfully and thoughtfully by their friends, and if not, were they portrayed as wrong? This probably isn’t something that really even needs an explanation. Abuse victims should be able to set their own boundaries and tell their stories only when they want, when they feel comfortable, Their friends should be understanding of this and not force anything from them. In the case of Blake and Weiss, this is handled really well! Their friends let them talk about their experiences in their own time, and they’re understanding and validate their feelings when it comes up (much more common with Blake than with Weiss, who like I said, seemed to move on from her dad quickly after she left.) However, when it comes to Oz... This is all wrecked. Although unintentional (no one knew how deeply tied up with Salem Ozpin was or how intimate the memories they were going to watch were,) our main characters still forced Ozpin’s deepest and most personal secrets out of him in a fit of upset while he was tearfully begging them not to. He was forced to relive his most traumatic experiences in hi-def with other people watching with him, all his secrets and all his abuse wrenched away from him in what was clearly a very painful way. And then no one showed Ozpin even the slightest bit of sympathy or understanding for what he’d gone through, and no one ever apologized for what they had forced him to relive. In fact, Team RWBY were clearly displayed as in the right, and Oz was displayed as completely wrong for not trusting them implicitly. He had to apologize to them, which they acted begrudgingly accepting of as if they hadn’t shouted at an abuse victim after forcing him to relive all his worst experiences.

Are some abuse victims portrayed as bad for things that other abuse victims aren’t portrayed as bad for? Like the second ask says, in RWBY, Cinder and Mercury are treated as villains for having killed their abusers and Cinder is almost arrested for it, it’s considered a step in the direction of their villainy. But Blake is (rightfully) treated as the victim who was forced, who had no choice, who just wanted the abuse to stop. This is hypocritical and fundamentally flawed. I think this is a reflection of the fact that Cinder and Mercury are meant to be ‘bad’ abuse victim, who had violent tendencies and anger issues, and were already featured as bad guys before their backstory’s dropped, whereas Blake was meant to be a better abuse victim who (by season six) was starting to get written as a soft girl who just wanted to help her friends.

All in all, although there’s some things that I think that RWBY did well enough, I definitely think that I would consider their portrayal of abuse victims to be lacking. This is just my opinion and the way I feel about the writing, but there are a lot of ways to look at it. I think overall, I just really wish that the RWBY writers had been a little more sensitive and spent a little longer focusing on the character arcs involved in abuse recovery. (There’s still a chance for Whitley, Weiss, and Emerald to get more focus in volume ten, though, so long as the writers don’t timeskip!)

#rwde #rwby criticism #rwby critical #rwby hate #rwby bashing #tw; abuse #trigger warning; abuse

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bigskydreaming · 3 years

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@spikeface

ohhhh hell yeah I have not forgotten, like I tend to keep the examples limited to interactions with Scott to point out the blatant double standards in play but also because I am so tired of the abuse apologism arguments that come with any criticism of Derek’s actions in regards to teenage characters in the first two seasons in general, like, I know the dude had a hard time that doesn’t mean paying that forward is an acceptable standard of behavior for interacting with scared and vulnerable teenagers. ALSO not to bring it back around to Scott AGAIN but also umm Im me so okay I will I have the go-ahead, but like......literally every single argument and justification people make about Derek’s behavior and choices in the first two seasons because of what happened with Kate and how he doesn’t trust people because of that and he’s traumatized is rendered null and void by their simultaneous bullshit insistence that none of this logic means anything when it comes to Scott and.....wait for it....what happened with Theo and trust and traumatized or does being betrayed by someone you were starting to consider a good friend and murdered not count as trauma? I forget.

You can’t have it both ways but people are like Yes I can *rolls up sleeves* watch me.

Aaaaaand since we’re already here, why not, I’m going for it, soooooo getting in on the ground floor before people are like WELL THAT’S DIFFERENT BECAUSE STILES TRIED TO WARN SCOTT SO HE SHOULD’VE KNOWN UNLIKE DEREK WHO COULDN’T HAVE, umm:

a) that’s not how trust works, its not by proxy, you either trust someone or you don’t and someone else telling you that you shouldn’t does not in fact render a betrayal of trust any less a betrayal of trust, this is LITERALLY just victim-blaming the betrayed, something that people are absolutely aware of because just imagine the shrieks of protest if someone were to posit an AU where someone warned Derek not to trust Kate but he still did anyway and so that made everything else that happened all his fault.

b) you do not owe even your best friends unconditional trust in every opinion they have OVER your own opinions, it honestly truly DEEPLY makes me uncomfortable how often people raise this point because Stiles could distrust Theo all he wanted, Scott is still entitled to his own opinions based on his own perceptions of his own interactions with Theo, which were different than Stiles’ interactions, and Scott was in no way, shape or form obligated to uphold Stiles’ perceptions and interactions of and with Theo as more important than Scott’s own, what even is that wtfuckery

c) Stiles’ distrust of Theo was unfortunately watered down and diluted by the fact that he was lying to Scott and keeping secrets from him for weeks, which was his right and he was traumatized himself by what happened with Donovan, but the flip side of that is Scott was keenly aware that Stiles was lying to him about stuff and even had a whole freaking monologue about it and how he wished Stiles would just talk to him and tell him what he was hiding and in what universe is someone obligated to unconditionally believe their friend and abide by what they’re saying and wanting WHILE AT THE EXACT SAME TIME being lied to by that same friend?

d) Stiles’ distrust of Theo was additionally watered down and diluted by the fact that even after he had actual foolproof evidence that Theo was a liar and not to be trusted, he refrained from informing Scott of this because he prioritized his own feelings about what might come out about him in the process of telling Scott, which again, was absolutely his right to do and be worried about but it is NOT his right to be retroactively extradited from any role he played in Scott’s perceptions of events that season by not divulging this information even while actively still JUDGING Scott for not acting on information re: Theo that Scott literally did not have to act upon, just his own interactions with Theo where Theo was actively and continually working on being seen as not only trustworthy but INVALUABLE in Scott’s eyes, while everyone else was off preoccupied with their own stuff leaving Scott with no one BUT Theo to turn to. Which was literally Theo’s entire plan in dividing them in order to make Scott vulnerable in the first place, just as Scott ultimately was more victimized by Theo than any of the other surviving members of S5 as he was the one y’know, MURDERED, but again let’s talk some more about how it was Stiles and everyone else who was more betrayed and let down by Scott’s choice to trust Theo than Scott was himself

(and so help me GOD if someone brings up Josh or Tracy like they give a fuck about them, lolol, fun fact, but most of the posts about Josh and Tracy in S5 while it was airing were mine, like, 90% of their tags was me posting, yeah c’mon guys we’re aware I can be prolific when I hyper-fixate I’m not exaggerating here lol I POSTED ABOUT JOSH A LOT OKAY lololol. So I keenly remember the weeks between Josh’s death episode and the episode which revealed that Scott got to Deucalion before Theo did, because that was two whole weeks of people being like who the fuck cares about Josh, other than like, me and some mutuals, until the SECOND fandom found a way to spin Scott as being tangentially responsible for Josh’s death, at which point suddenly it was like OMG JOSH WE LOVED YOU ALL ALONG, WE’RE SO SORRY THAT MONSTER DID THIS TO YOU. The whiplash would be hilarious if I didn’t hate it so much)

e) Stiles’ distrust of Theo was additionally watered down and diluted by the fact that he was WRONG about everything he initially brought up as WHY he distrusted Theo, his whole thesis to Scott at the start of the season was that he didn’t trust Theo because he remembered Theo from fourth grade and Theo wasn’t Theo but uh.....yes he was. He wanted Scott not to trust Theo on a basis that was flawed and had no grounding in reality other than Stiles’ own unreliable gut instincts with no care or concern whatsoever for Scott’s own gut instincts, and simultaneously, Stiles in the throes of being like THEO IM ON TO YOU YOU FAKER (Theo in the distance: Lol no you’re not, you just don’t like me, there’s a difference), ANYWAY, Stiles at the exact same time as being focused on not just Theo but what he felt Scott SHOULD be doing and thinking in regards to Theo and Stiles’ opinions, somehow managed to completely overlook and give no fucks about Scott’s ACTUAL thoughts and actions re: Theo, as if he had been paying more attention to the actual character of his friend rather than just his perception and assumptions about his friend, he would have noticed that Scott DIDN’T blindly trust Theo from the start, because Scott DOESN’T actually blindly trust anyone and actually has trust issues out the wazoo from all the times he’s been hurt, betrayed and let down by people he cares about from his deadbeat dad to the many murder and manipulation attempts of Peter, whom he has canonically never trusted despite Stiles’ insistence that he even trusts Peter (lol where? when? source?).....ergo, ipso facto, forsooth and all that good shit.....Stiles wanted Scott’s complete obedience and allegiance in S5 to everything he said and thought while at the exact same time giving no fucks about anything going on WITH Scott himself. Hashtag friendship goals, am I right guys?

f) the fatal flaw of the Sciles schism in S5 was not in fact the warring opinions on Scott and Stiles’ respective trust and distrust of Theo, but rather what S5 revealed about Scott and Stiles’ respect trust and distrust of EACH OTHER. In point of fact, the only thing truly revealed by the events of that season is that Scott doesn’t automatically trust just anyone, but that his trust must be EARNED - a process Theo invested considerable effort in doing, as he actually paid attention to Scott and the actuality of things he said and did and why - and that Stiles in contrast doesn’t just automatically distrust anyone, but rather makes snap judgments about whether or not to PUT his trust in others based on what he’s feeling.

Basically, my point is that Scott views trust as a function of information gathering and ultimately a decision to put it to the test or not, to actually just say okay based on what I know and feel at this point, I am making the choice NOW to trust in someone. Stiles in contrast, views trust as something he doesn’t fundamentally NEED in his interactions with people, and as such he uses it to shore up and buttress various other things about himself and his interactions with people.

This is why Scott started out the season WITH reservations about Theo, that led to him asking Deaton questions about how vulnerable he and his pack might be due to allowing a strange newcomer into their midst, but ultimately placing more and more trust in Theo as the season went on, BASED on Theo’s ongoing campaign to win Scott’s trust by seeming trustworthy and helpful and supportive.

Meanwhile, Stiles started out the season WITH reservations about Theo, that informed all his actions regarding Theo UNTIL he got concrete proof that Theo was a liar, BUT continued to interact with Theo and even work alongside him even KNOWING he wasn’t trustworthy, because trust was not after all the most important element informing his actions because it never HAD been. More importantly, the reason this all plays more into Scott and Stiles’ view of each other than anything to do with Theo, was because the ONLY reason Theo was able to play them against each other was Theo keyed into the fact that Stiles, despite placing a lot of importance in the IDEA of trust, never actually fully makes the leap into actually PLACING his trust in ANYONE, even someone like his best friend Scott, who has proven MULTIPLE times how invaluable Stiles is to him.....because if Stiles ever HAD fully placed his trust in Scott, he would have been able to look at the concrete precedent of Scott saying throughout the entire nogitsune ordeal that he flat out didn’t CARE if people died because of the nogitsune, because of Stiles himself, he wasn’t going to sacrifice Stiles to save the lives of strangers he just simply doesn’t value as being more important to him than Stiles himself.

And by extension, if Stiles HAD ever fully placed his trust in Scott after this, then his fears about Donovan would have fallen by the wayside as - just like it was ultimately proven out in 5B after Scott heard the WHOLE story and not the parts Theo told him backed up by the lies of ommission Stiles HADN’T told Scott and the fact that Scott had been keyed into Stiles’ feelings of guilt over something for weeks - Scott would then have expressed to Stiles just as he ultimately DID express to Stiles: that he can tell the difference between self-defense and cold-blooded murder, and Stiles killing Donovan in self-defense was not a problem for Scott and NEVER WAS OR WOULD HAVE BEEN.

In conclusion, the biggest issue in S5 is not that Scott trusts everyone, its that even after everything, Stiles still doesn’t even trust Scott.

And if you can’t trust the best friend who’s proven that he will literally do anything for you, at any time, just say the word, to such an extent that you’ll pull back from him and refrain from working with him and being around him AT THE EXACT SAME TIME as demonstrating that you will be around and work alongside someone you don’t even like and definitely do not trust.....

Then trust is not the be all and end all for you, and it never actually was, and if you can’t grant it to even your friend why does your friend owe you his, let alone UNCONDITIONAL trust in not just you, but every opinion and course of action you advocate for?

*bangs gavel* The defense rests. Or the prosecution rests. Fuck, I forgot which side I’m on. Am I accusing or defending? Idek.

Whatever. I rest.

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rosethornewrites · 3 years

Text

Fic: the thread may stretch or tangle but it will never break, ch. 14

Additional Tags: Pre-Slash, Alternate Universe - Canon Divergence, Secrets, Crying, Masks, Soulmates, Truth, Self-Esteem Issues, Regret, It was supposed to be a one-shot, Fix-It, Eventual Relationships, Angst and Hurt/Comfort, wwx needs a hug, Nightmares, Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder - PTSD, Filial Piety, Handfasting, Phobias, Sleeping Together, Fear, Panic Attacks, Love Confessions, Getting Together, First Kiss, Kissing, Boys Kissing, Family, and they were married, Bathing/Washing, Hair Braiding, Hair Brushing, Feels, Sex Education, Implied Sexual Content, First Time, Aftercare, Morning After, Afterglow, Implied/Referenced Alcohol Abuse/Alcoholism, Implied/Referenced Torture, Scars, Eventual Happy Ending, Hand Jobs, Chronic Pain, Biting, Conversations

Summary: With Wei Wuxian on the mend, Wen Qing sends him into town with A-Yuan, Lan Wangji, and Wen Ning to keep him out of trouble. They run into someone unexpectedly.

Notes: See end.

AO3 link | FFN link (no smut)

Chapters: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13

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Wei Ying seems happy to be in town for the first time since his near-possession, cleared after nearly a week by Wen Qing. Lan Wangji is of the opinion that the surplus of radishes and need to sell them was more the reason for her clearance, along with the fact a bored Wei Ying was dangerous.

The musical acupuncture helped him heal rapidly for someone without a golden core, according to Wen Qing. And Wei Ying had started to theorize about ways this could potentially be adapted to help Wen Ning—apparently one of the concerns was whether spiritual energy used in such a way would hurt him, or if using resentful energy could damage Wen Ning’s control. He didn’t feel ready to experiment just yet.

There was only so much Lan Wangji could do to keep Wei Ying distracted once he was recovering, though the tidy rewritten notes thrilled his husband. After the third small explosion while he worked on the Compass of Evil, Wen Qing decided he’d do less damage selling radishes with Wen Ning in town, and insisted they take A-Yuan with them so Granny could rest.

Damage is a perhaps relative idea, when a fake Yiling Laozu disciple sets up shop next to them to hawk his counterfeit wares.

Lan Wangji is surprised when Wei Ying finds the whole thing amusing, and says nothing when he steals the charlatan’s Compass of Evil, replacing it with a radish. Truthfully, the theft satisfies him; it grates on him to hear the lies gossips spew, to see people slander his zhiji for their own gain.

The day is otherwise long, with Wen Ning too shy to effectively call attention to their radishes. Adorably, A-Yuan is a bit of a help there, enthusiastically calling the attention of young women who find him adorable (but at least purchased radishes), but he grows bored easily and needs redirection.

It doesn’t help that Wei Ying keeps rubbing his hand over his collar with a dreamy expression, which more than once leads Lan Wangji to recite the Lan precepts mentally lest he act inappropriately in public—Wei Ying is wearing his ribbon at his crown, so that restraint is absent.

Under his collar is the evidence of his lack of restraint—a bruise in the shape of Lan Wangji’s teeth.

He is careful, on the whole, given Wei Ying bruises easily in his unhealthy state, bruises that take too long to fade for Wangji’s comfort. But with Wei Ying straddling his lap and moaning obscenities in his ear, moving his hips just so, as he was tasting the sweat on his collar, his control had broken.

At the bite, Wei Ying had come with an exultant “yes!” Their stomachs slick with it between them, his nails scraping at Lan Wangji’s back, clenching so hard around him his vision whited out with the force of his own orgasm. He can’t think about the bruise without remembering.

Wei Ying likes the bruise, to Lan Wangji’s mortification. Likes being marked by him, little reminders of their every day.

“I know you’d never really hurt me, Lan Zhan,” he’d said, his voice filled with a trust Lan Wangji didn’t feel he deserved. “And I liked it, in case you couldn’t tell.”

Watching Wei Ying rub it here in town is a special kind of hell, him at arm’s length and too far from their bed.

It becomes worse when Wei Ying glances his way and catches him looking, immediately reddening as though he knows exactly what he is thinking, which makes restraint all the more difficult. He looks beautiful, blushing. But he has always looked beautiful, and Lan Wangji had previously managed restraint—that was, however, before he had acknowledged their relationship, before they had consummated. Somehow the longing, the dreams and fantasies, had been much more manageable before he knew how Wei Ying’s sweat-slick skin tasted, how he felt coming apart.

The sale of the last of the radishes is a relief, but they still need to purchase items on Wen Qing’s list before returning to Burial Mounds. He lets Wei Ying focus on A-Yuan, who insists on being carried, and walks alongside him without touching him. A-Yuan is practically hanging backward from Wei Ying’s arms, giggling at silly faces he’s making. Wen Ning takes up the rear with the cart, where he’ll have Wei Ying sit if his strength fails him.

He is so focused on Wei Ying beside him that he doesn’t notice Jiang Wanyin in front of them until he halts, the smile on his face freezing, his stream of nonsense conversation with A-Yuan trailing into silence.

Jiang Wanyin does not look happy.

But, then, he rarely does.

Lan Wangji has to steel himself, doing his best not to look at the lower dantian where Wei Ying’s core now rests. Instead he bows politely.

“Sect Leader Jiang.”

Beside him, Wei Ying bows as best he can with A-Yuan in his arms, and he can sense movement behind him that tells him Wen Ning has followed suit.

Jiang Wanyin’s lip curls, but he just silently tosses his head in a beckoning gesture.

He can hear the way Wei Ying’s breath quickens, the bit of perspiration on his upper lip. Can sense his nervousness over what is to come, what he has decided to reveal. Lan Wangji takes a breath to calm himself. His husband needs him steady now.

The moment Jiang Wanyin turns to lead the way to wherever he intends them to speak, Lan Wangji puts a steadying hand on Wei Ying’s elbow as they follow and receives a wan smile in response.

Lan Wangji is relieved he is wearing the clothing the aunties sewed for him today, wearing a simpler guan Wei Ying had carved for him personally after he had expressed reluctance to continue wearing the one he had worn to befit and show his station. Wei Ying had carved two rabbits on the guan, one wearing a forehead ribbon and the other stained a darker color with leftover dye from the dock root. The craftwork had distracted him nicely for a while.

The clothing is of a heavier weave than he is used to, but he doesn’t mind it. If the plainer clothing has distracted Jiang Wanyin from noticing Lan Wangji is not wearing his forehead ribbon, that it is woven around Wei Ying’s crown and plaited with his red ribbon down his back, it is a relief. Jiang Wanyin is not known for an even temper, and his inattention has staved off what might be an argument until they are out of public.

Wei Ying will find the coming conversations stressful enough in private. He doesn’t need it to start publicly and draw attention from the locals.

Despite all the rumors about Wei Ying floating around Yiling, none of the regular citizens seem to know what he looks like. Any rumors imported speak of him as a demon or monster, and so any talismans purporting to show his features show him as such—talismans Wei Ying had decorated his cave with, and which Lan Wangji has successfully convinced him to allow him to remove. As infamous and reviled as Wei Ying is, he has managed to stay anonymous outside the gentry, anonymity that affords him some safety, and Lan Wangji would rather it not be shattered by one of Jiang Wanyin’s temper tantrums.

They are led to a courtyard, and though Jiang Wanyin first tries to close the door to keep Lan Wangji and Wen Ning out, he is able to stop this by blocking the shutting door with his sheathed sword. The Jiang sect heir must see something in the narrowing of Lan Wangji’s eyes, because he doesn’t attempt it again, instead closing and locking the door behind them.

Aside from a single figure in a long black cloak, they are alone, and Lan Wangji is unsurprised but pleased when it turns out to be Jiang Yanli in her wedding robes and headdress, come to show Wei Ying so he is not completely left out—he has seen his husband’s pain over this, how much he misses the sister who raised him, knows she is as close to his blood as can be, and he hopes this eases it somewhat.

Lan Wangji can feel Wei Ying’s arms drooping under the weight of A-Yuan, so he carefully takes the boy from him so he can greet his sister.

“A-Xian,” she calls him, untying the cloak and letting it fall. “What do you think?”

He’s close enough to hear Wei Ying’s breath catch, and is taken back to his disappointment over being excluded from the wedding. He himself is reminded of seeing Wei Ying in red following the Sunshot Campaign, in his underrobes after waking for a coma, the only time he has seen him in only in red. He realizes with a pang he will never see his husband in wedding robes.

“What, she’s not marrying you.”

Jiang Wanyin’s snide tone grates on Lan Wangji, but Wei Ying responds in kind, and he recalls watching them snipe verbally at each other during the lecture in Cloud Recesses, back before the world fell apart.

Jiang Yanli calms them, and he marvels at her ability to bring them together as they try to convince her she looks lovely in her wedding garb.

“You’ll only believe it if he says it,” Wei Ying says, faking petulance. “Lan Zhan, what do you think?”

He had been trying to avert his eyes politely, but even Jiang Wanyin seems to be watching for his reaction, so he studies them, the delicate stitching, the fall of the layers.

Lan Wangji wishes he could see Wei Ying in wedding robes.

“Elegant,” he says with a nod.

“Zhan-gege, who’s Pretty-jiejie?” A-Yuan asks, twisting in his hold.

Wei Ying smiles at the boy, taking him back.

“Even A-Yuan knows you’re pretty, shijie, so you don’t need to worry.”

Jiang Yanli folds the cloak and gestures to the nearby table.

“Come now, I’ve made soup.”

When Wei Ying sits, Jiang Yanli’s expression shifts to surprise, and he notices her looking at his forehead ribbon in his hair. She looks to him, a question in her expression, and he simply nods. Her responding smile is filled with relief, but also regret.

He is surprised when she doesn’t address it immediately, instead gesturing to him to sit and opening the basket. He takes a seat beside Wei Ying. The smell of the soup fills the air, a scent unfamiliar to Lan Wangji, but one that reminds him of his husband. This, he realizes, must be the lotus root and pork rib soup he has heard him talk about.

“I apologize. I only have three bowls,” she says, sounding truly disappointed. “I did not expect…”

Lan Wangji is about to demur and insist he does not intend to eat when Jiang Wanyin, surprisingly, pulls out a pouch of money.

“We can purchase a couple from the market, A-jie.”

Wen Ning bows.

“Jiang-zongzhu, Jiang-guniang, I can g-go for you.”

Jiang Wanyin frowns at Wen Ning with thinly veiled hostility that baffles Lan Wangji, but hands him some silver.

As Wen Ning flees, he wonders if it is to avoid Jiang Wanyin, or to avoid being present for at least part of the conversation to come.

He knows Wei Ying would prefer to flee, and he strokes his arm briefly with his thumb. The smile he receives from his husband is tremulous, but he can see his determination.

Jiang Yanli smiles at A-Yuan, her attention drawn by the movement.

“Who is this little one?” she asks, crouching slightly so she’s at the child’s height.

“A-Yuan is A-Yuan, Pretty-jiejie!”

Wei Ying shifts, catching his hand briefly and squeezing it; Lan Wangji realizes he’s decided to start here, with A-Yuan, in the multitude of revelations that are to be made.

“A-Yuan, this is my shijie,” he says softly. “You can call her guma.”

Jiang Yanli gasps in delight when A-Yuan dutifully calls her guma.

“A-Xian, is he yours?”

She is obviously unable to take him into her arms, wearing her wedding robes as she is, but she reaches out to take A-Yuan’s hand.

“Not by blood, but he started calling me a-die.”

He offers a wan smile to both his siblings.

“Meet Wei Yuan. Or he will be, once I’ve introduced him properly to my parents.”

“He’s a Wen,” Jiang Wanyin states.

Lan Wangji levels him with a stare, though it’s unclear in his tone how he feels.

“He’s an orphan and he’s three years old,” Wei Ying shoots back.

Jiang Wanyin’s face softens, but Jiang Yanli looks alarmed.

“A-Xian, he was at the work camp? At Qiongqi Path?”

Her face hardens when he nods.

“The children, the civilians, all were supposed to be let go. How could they…?”

Lan Wangji stays silent, knowing Wei Ying would prefer to shield her from some of the uglier realities of the war, but is reminded of coming upon Jin Zixun shooting unarmed civilians in chains, and his lie that it was sanctioned by the Lan and Nie clans.

“I couldn’t leave them there, shijie,” he whispers. “Wen Ning and Wen Qing sheltered us, and the others were held as Wen Ruohan’s hostages against her during the war.”

A-Yuan is watching Wei Ying quietly, with the same air of concern he had at the restaurant in Yiling not so many days ago. Lan Wangji shifts again to put the child on Wei Ying’s lap, watching as the boy hugs him.

Wei Ying manages a smile for him, then leans his head close to him and points to Jiang Wanyin.

“And the fussy gege is your shushu,” he says conspiratorially.

“You—!”

Jiang Yanli silences Jiang Wanyin with a look.

“Like Ning-shushu?” A-Yuan asks. “Do I call him nao-shushu?”

“That’s your Jiang-shushu,” Wei Ying clarifies before Jiang Cheng can take offense, but nearly chokes on the title and falls quiet.

Lan Wangji remembers abruptly that Wei Ying had once referred to Jiang Fengmian by that very name, and he watches his husband in concern. He has expressed feeling as though the attack on Lotus Pier was his fault, and he can see the guilt and grief Wei Ying is struggling to hold back.

“Yes,” Jiang Wanyin says, his voice strained as though he is fighting his own emotional turmoil, ending an awkward silence. “You can call me Jiang-shushu.”

When A-Yuan does, it is perhaps the closest Lan Wangji has ever seen Jiang Wanyin come to smiling.

Wen Ning returns with several bowls and soup spoons, an inexpensive wooden variety they have at the Burial Mounds. He tries to give Jiang Wanyin his change and is waved off.

“You can use it to get something sweet for… for my zhizi,” he says, his tone brusque. “Or a toy or something.”

Wei Ying smiles, his posture relaxing just slightly—A-Yuan’s acceptance by his siblings as their nephew has eased his nerves somewhat. But this is only the first of three difficult revelations that must be made, and arguably the easiest of them.

Jiang Yanli serves each of them, putting a generous portion of meat in A-Yuan’s bowl, and takes a seat. She herself is not eating, likely concerned about staining her wedding robes. Instead she seems content to watch them eat.

Wei Ying alternates between himself and A-Yuan, one spoon each.

“Be sure to chew the lotus root,” Wen Ning tells the boy softly.

A-Yuan nods enthusiastically, clearly enamored of the flavors; Lan Wangji can’t blame him. Though there is more spice than he is accustomed to, as is the norm in Yunmeng cuisine, the flavor is somehow warm and comforting. He completely understands how this soup is his husband’s favorite.

“You’re not eating,” Jiang Yanli says.

Wen Ning jerks in surprise.

“Oh… I was going to save this for jiejie so she could try it.”

Jiang Yanli smiles warmly.

“We will be coming to Burial Mounds, once I change at the inn. I brought enough ingredients to make some for everyone.”

Wei Ying nearly chokes on a bite of soup. She pats his back until he’s recovered.

“Wen Qing sent me a letter. We have things to discuss.”

Jiang Wanyin looks sour about this.

“Speaking of, Zewu-Jun sent an interesting letter. Said you have news to share. I’m assuming it has to do with why Hanguang-Jun is here?”

Wei Ying puts his soup spoon down and hands A-Yuan off to Wen Ning with his bowl. Wen Ning doesn’t seem surprised by this and takes over feeding him.

He tries not to be nervous over his husband getting the boy out of the potential line of fire. He rather hopes it is unnecessary, but he has seen Jiang Wanyin’s temper.

“About that,” Wei Ying says, then pauses, glancing at Lan Wangji. “Um, well… We’re married.”

For a moment, there is stunned hurt on Jiang Wanyin’s features, but it’s quickly replaced by wrath, powerful enough that zidian sparks.

“You couldn’t even invite us?!”

Lan Wangji will not have him blame Wei Ying for that. He knows there will be enough of that when they get to the next revelation. He would rather the focus be on him.

“He did not know we were married until recently.”

Jiang Wanyin’s eyes snap to him, and he carefully keeps his gaze cool in response to what is almost a volcano. He sputters, almost too angry to speak, zidian sparking even more dangerously, leaving the scent of ozone in the air.

“You— Without his consent?! This, from the honorable Hanguang-Jun?!”

“Jiang Wanyin!”

Wei Ying’s voice is low and cutting, startlingly powerful despite the lack of volume. It’s enough to startle his brother out of his anger, at least momentarily.

“He handfasted me in the Cold Spring cave,” he explains. “Lan Yi’s guqin was attacking me because I wasn’t Lan.”

Jiang Yanli stands and levels a look at Jiang Wanyin that somehow makes him quail; Lan Wangji only understands why when she levels it at him—the fury of a mother figure.

“Please explain, Lan-er-gongzi.”

Her voice is clipped in the same manner it was when she chastised Jin Zixun at the Phoenix Mountain hunt, and leaves no doubt that she will find a way to harm him if his explanation is deemed unsatisfactory. She is mildly terrifying.

“Wei Ying was being attacked with Chord Assassination,” he says. “The headband would afford him protection. I did not expect Lan Yi’s appearance. Or that we would bow. Regardless, I did not regret it.”

“You married him by accident?” Jiang Wanyin mutters, the rage gone and replaced with confusion.

“Lan Yi did not disapprove.”

“And you never told A-Xian?” Jiang Yanli asks.

She also seems more confused than angry now.

Wei Ying sighs tiredly.

“Aiya, Jiang Cheng, shijie… When would he have had time? When we were searching for the yin iron? Indoctrination? The Xuanwu cave? After—”

He breaks off. His siblings look pained, remembering the fate of Lotus Pier, though they don’t know what came after for Wei Ying. Yet.

“There was never time,” Lan Wangji agrees. “I did not expect my regard for him to be reciprocated. But now, with the danger to Wei Ying… even were it solely political, I could help protect him.”

“It’s not solely political,” Wei Ying chirps, his tone almost smug. “It’s very reciprocated—and can’t be annulled now!”

Lan Wangji can feel his ears heating. Just under Wei Ying’s collar lurks the proof of that, as he’s been acutely aware all day. He has to avoid looking at him for a moment—not out of embarrassment, but because if he does, if he sees the heat in Wei Ying’s gaze, he might lose control and kiss him in front of his siblings.

As much as his husband might prefer the distraction, he doubts it will help much.

“I didn’t need to know that, ever,” Jiang Wanyin grouses, making a face.

Jiang Yanli takes her seat again, her face serious.

“A-Xian is in danger?”

Lan Wangji nods.

“The rumors make him out to be a monster raising an army of Wen cultivators, as though he is an enemy. The truth is quite different. The lies Jin Guangshan has spread to imply he disrespects Jiang Wanyin were meant to isolate him. They want the amulet.”

“Wait, what’s this about me not respecting Jiang Cheng?” Wei Ying demands, clearly affronted.

“One of the claims made after Qiongqi Path,” Lan Wangji tells him. “That you were speaking ill of Jiang Wanyin at the Phoenix Mountain hunt.”

Wei Ying looks stunned, and his gaze darts to his brother. He evidently doesn’t like what he sees, his expression shuttering.

“I see,” he says, the words heavy in the air. “And you believed them.”

Jiang Wanyin has the decency to look ashamed.

Jiang Yanli seems at a loss. Lan Wangji suspects she has heard none of this. Had she been aware, he has no doubt the offenders would have regretted speaking ill of Wei Ying.

“Maybe you’re right not to trust me,” Wei Ying murmurs finally. “I’ve lied to both of you.”

The admission startles a flinch from his siblings. Lan Wangji can feel the tension in Wei Ying, like a guqin string stretched too taut, ready to snap at the slightest touch. He reaches for Wei Ying’s hand under the table and places his on top of it. He is relieved when his husband relaxes slightly, a slight tremor running through him.

Wei Ying’s hand, when he laces theirs together, is clammy and cold, his grip tighter than normal. As much as Lan Wangji wishes he could do more, the best he can do is be here for him.

The quiet stretches, seeming to freeze them in time, broken only when A-Yuan asks Wen Ning for another bite of soup.

Jiang Yanli reaches forward, touches Wei Ying’s arm.

“About what, A-Xian?”

She looks concerned and a little afraid, and the same look lurks on Jiang Wanyin’s features. They know, Lan Wangji realizes that Wei Ying has been hiding something, maybe even suspect how terrible it is. Whatever they might imagine, he knows the truth will be much worse.

Wei Ying swallows hard, his fingers tightening. He seems to be trying to find the words, deciding how to say it in a way that might soften the blow.

But there is no way to soften it.

“I didn’t know how to find Baoshan Sanren,” he admits finally.

------------

The conversation is a lot longer than I expected it to be, and this is a good stopping point, even if it is a bit of a cliffhanger. This went in directions I didn’t always expect, in part because Jiang Yanli is terrifying.

Lan Wangji has feelings about Jiang Cheng. They’re not always the nicest feelings, but he has them regardless. It’s ok, because Jiang Cheng has similar feelings in return.

It might take me a bit to pick this up again. I’m participating in the WangXian Lunar New Year gift exchange, so I’m working on my piece for that and putting my other fics on hold for a little while. Also, the new semester just started, and I’ve probably fielded about 50 emails from panicked students today alone.

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bexterbex · 4 years

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A Soul to Mend His Own | Ch. 54

Warning, PLEASE CHECK TAGS IF YOU SEE SOMETHING YOU DON’T WANT TO READ THEN DON’T READ. Tag lists are closed

Tags: Alternate Universe - Modern Setting, Alternate Universe - Soulmates, Alternate Universe - Canon Divergence, Will tag as I go along, Will update tags, Slow Burn, Influenced by Star Trek and other Sci-Fi themes, References to We Happy Few, Tons of References and quotes to George Orwells 1984 see if you can find them all, The First Order is the new Big Brother, but who is really surprised, Blatant Nazi Symbolism, Interrogation Themes, Eventual Smut, Eventual Romance, Really just drawn out Slow Burn, Don’t repost without permission, Torture themes, Suggestive Themes, Execution themes, Disturbing Themes, Implied/Referenced Abuse, Verbal Abuse, Controlling Kylo Ren, Physical Abuse, Implied/Referenced Self-Harm, Kylo Ren is Not Nice, Kylo Ren Has Issues, Supreme Leader Kylo Ren, Possessive Kylo Ren, A character shamelessly based on Zelda

A Kylo Ren x Modern! Reader in a soulmate au with some canon divergence. —————————————SLOWBURN————————————–

He is already the Supreme leader, searching the universe to find you, his Empress. Your name on his wrist has been the only constant in his life, while you have doubts about his existence and his acceptance of you. He isn’t in the database and why did the name Kylo Ren cover Ben Solo?

MASTERLIST

Chapter 54: Learning and Encouraging

The general placed your lunch order for you, stating there were specific things needed for your course. When the droid arrived it placed a rather elaborate place setting in front of you. Lots of silverware and glasses that you weren’t familiar with.

The general seemed to want to make sure everything was precise and forced you to maintain a straighter posture than normal, “Now m’lady it is important that you take such a lead at this formal dinner. Other than the Supreme Leader, you will be the next highest ranking person there.” He then started to show you by example how to do things.

“So everyone will be looking at me and judging me. Got it.” You instantly got nervous. You hated being the spectacle of everyone’s judgment.

“Now, now m’lady, they will simply be following your lead, as will the Supreme Leader. One of the reasons why you are learning such things is that he needs to be shown what to do, he will follow your example. He has been taught these things, but he tends to either ignore them or forget them. He will be searching your mind and following you at the dinner,” Hux informed you.

“Searching my mind? Like he will literally be following my lead? I don’t know if I like that.” Truly you didn’t, it rather creeped you out.

“Well, m’lady it is either you or I, and I think he much prefers your mind versus mine. I can tell you that he does it anyway, if you know where to look you can feel him moving around in there.” He pointed to his head, “You might find that it is a good way to communicate without alerting others. I have found it rather useful at times.”

You considered this for a moment. He was in your head? You knew he read your thoughts, but you assumed that he didn’t do it all the time. But now you thought twice about it. Could he see what Adlez and you were doing? Would it even work if he knew what you were trying to do? How good was his concentration? This was something you were going to have to test.

“Ok, so if I do this correctly then he will take my lead?” You weren’t sure if that was the best thing.

“Yes m’lady, but I might recommend that you rather overly think it when you do. Like yelling in your own mind or rather when you pick up a glass you need to truly think about picking up a glass or a fork. He will need to be led by you as to what to do, less we want to make fools of ourselves.” He then went through what each item was used for and in what order you were to use them.

You eventually got to actually eat your food, “But it is very important to note that anytime you get up from the table all males will stand with you,” said the general. “The Supreme Leader will probably initiate this. You do not have to stand when another woman gets up, but any male that does not stand for you is someone who is insulting you.”

“Do you have a feeling that someone might try to insult me?” This was not something you wanted to repeat, not after the last time.

“There may be some at the dinner that do not appreciate that your planet has not been in the last few galactic wars. And now it is reaping the benefit of the First Order’s graces without doing the work.” You could tell this was not his personal feelings, only possible opinions that he was relaying to you.

“Would they possibly be the same people who are in favor of General Pryde staying around?” You had a gut feeling.

The general did not answer exactly but shared a pointed smile with you as he turned back to eating his lunch. You got the message. You were about to fight an entirely different battle. One that Kylo wasn’t proficient in, one that you would lead on your side.

“They may also make snide remarks about you m’lady, so you best be prepared. Adlez and Olivia-Rose will make sure you are presentable. It will be best if there are no marks along your neck. While they may be something, the Supreme Leader enjoys, it will not be something appreciated by them less you be in a different position; like that of a courtesan and not a lady.” He pointed to his own neck, miming to where your marks were.

“We won’t have that,” stated Adlez. “If anything, that will be the women they call wives that they will bring along.” She seemed ready to take this battle for you. You wonder if it was ever insinuated that she was one in her previous marriage. High society women were known to be catty and backstabbing.

“Of course not, but Lady Ren may have to remind the Supreme Leader as to the purpose of covering herself up.” You could tell that both you and the general knew that he probably wouldn’t be happy with the decision to cover them up.

Your hand went to the mark behind your ear, the one he almost seemed to insist be there at all times. Not that the other marks didn’t mean anything, but this was the one he darkened and remarked every morning. You had a feeling that this was the one that would have to stay, his little mark of ownership over you. His signature, his brand.

“I will try to do so general, but perhaps we can find a dress that makes covering them less tedious?” You turned to your ladies with the question.

“I have just the dress in mind, m’lady. It will show off a bit of your back but almost nothing of your collarbone and what is shown will be easy to cover. One of your many beautiful floral dresses,” said Adlez.

“We are confident we can cover any mark, the Supreme Leader decides to leave,” said Olivia-Rose.

Both of them made you feel better, you were glad you had their company otherwise you would be all alone here. Floundering trying to make this all work, lost trying to find your new role. They were essential to your success.

After lunch, you all made your way up to the second level. You walked past the place where your drink from the other night had crashed. There was a stain in the carpet there. You stared at it for a moment before taking your spot. Adlez noticed the stain and walked back downstairs before coming back with a brush and a bottle of seltzer water, salt and a rag. She went to work lifting the stain if only she could do that to the memory.

The general informed you that you would be skipping around in order of lessons until the Supreme Leader informed him that you were to do some of the others he had in mind.

Ch. 19: The Chaperon and Other Conventions

Ch. 27 Part 1: Notes and Shorter Letters (para. 1-24)

Ch. 27 Part 2: Notes and Shorter Letters (para. 25-59)

Ch. 27 Part 3: Notes and Shorter Letters (para. 60-97)

Ch. 27 Part 4: Notes and Shorter Letters (para. 98-140)

Ch. 27 Part 5: Notes and Shorter Letters (chart How to Address Important Personages - to end)

Ch. 28: Longer Letters

“Once you are officially introduced as the First Lady, Lady Ren of the First Order and because you are not married to the Supreme Leader at any official events, you are not to go off alone with him. I believe the Supreme Leader has designated myself as your official chaperon at the dinner. You will also take up some duties, including some official correspondences with some of our allies. When we get closer to the dinner the Supreme Leader and I will sit down with you and go over your new duties,” the general then stood and folded his arms neatly behind his back.

So you were not only were you and he going to be watched by everyone, you couldn’t be alone together for five minutes. You were also going to be given new duties and responsibilities. Part of you was happy because you were going to be trusted with things, but part of you was dreading having to possibly do something you didn’t want to do.

“It is also recommended that for the next few meals following up to the dinner that you follow that same set up to practice your etiquette. It should now be set up on your meal preference list to eat this way. Even though the Supreme Leader will probably just follow you, it may not hurt to have him eat like that with you beforehand,” you could tell that the general was giving you a hint. You would agree that Kylo had some manners to work on and it wouldn’t hurt to start early.

The general then took his leave as you followed your ladies down to the dressing room to get ready for dinner. You saw the lieutenant linger for a moment before he also took his leave.

You then got ready with your ladies, putting you in another rather simple dress for the evening and doing another simple but elegant style.

“So is there anyone that has caught either of your eyes on board,” you asked both of them.

Adlez caught your eye in the mirror you could tell that she knew what you were doing. “Not particularly for me, but I have had fun with some of the officers at the bar.”

Both of you watched Olivia-Rose blush and duck her head when both of your attention turned to her. “There is no one in particular.”

“No one in particular, or someone who hasn’t noticed yet,” asked Adlez taking the lead. Her all-knowing eyes settled on her younger counterpart.

“I don’t know if it would even be appropriate, or even if it would be reciprocated,” Olivia-Rose said in her own defense. She looked stressed and worried.

“It is most certainly reciprocated and really all you need to do is ask permission from Lady Ren,” said Adlez to her. She then looked at you, asking permission for her.

Olivia-Rose then caught your eye in the vanity mirror, you got up and took her shoulders in your hands. “Of course you can, all I ask is that if it doesn’t work out that you will be able to work together. He is my assistant after all, and you will have to be near each other every day.”

Olivia-Rose just blushed and ducked her head. Eventually, she nodded in response. You then walked over to the vanity mirror with her and Adlez to inspect their handiwork. They did an excellent job, as always.

“Adlez do you think you can get me ready for bed by yourself?” You turned your head to the older woman.

She met your eye in the mirror and answered it with a smirk, saying, “Of course I can.”

You then turned to Olivia-Rose, “I expect that you should be able to track him down. Or do you want me to send him a message? I am giving you the opportunity to do it now before things get too hectic for all of us.”

She blushed and ducked her head once more, “I can find him m’lady and thank you.”

With that, you dismissed them both and headed to the living area to wait for Kylo to return for dinner. You had some things to discuss tonight, one of them being the execution tomorrow. You just hoped he could keep a level head for once so that another night together wasn’t ruined.

#kylo ren #kylo ren x reader #kylo ren imagine #kylo x reader #kylo x you #star wars #first order #star wars imagine #Star wars soulmate au #sw first order imagine #star wars first order #minutes to spare #a soul to mend his own

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xxxmidnightmasqueradexxx · 4 years

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Persona 5 Ship Rankings Part 1 {{This is gonna be a long one, so I’m only going over one shipping here, the rest will come later.}}

IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT: All of this is just my persona opinion! I am not looking to start up any debates or otherwise. So I respectfully ask that you DON’T try and start anything with me. I just want to talk about my favorite/liked/disliked ships in peace. Thank you~ ALSO WARNING! THERE IS BOUND TO BE SPOILERS SO YEH! {{I will be pulling up interactions of said characters from both the game and anime for certain ships, so expect spoilers for both the game and anime!}}

Here I shall discuss the ship Akiren/Ryuji {{Note that this is mostly all speculation, seeing hints, context clues, subtext and what not. I’m not trying to push this ship onto anyone or say that it’s actually canon. I’m just saying I believe that there’s something there and that it’s my personal canon. but it doesn’t have to be yours.}}

Akiren/Ryuji:

I cannot rank this ship with numbers alone, because this ship just sails itself in both the Anime and In The Game. There’s just so much subtext for these two that’s led me to believe that they’re endgame. However if you must know what number rank I’d give them...

I give them an infinity outta infinity and beyond.

Hoo boy! Strap in everyone cause this is gonna be a LONG one! In this essay I shall tell you all exactly why I believe personally that Akiren/Ryuji is actually the endgame Persona 5 ship!

Of course you don’t have to agree but just hear me out! For starters Akiren and Ryuji meet under the most bizarre of circumstances. They start out as strangers thrust into a life or death situation after unknowingly stumbling into Kamoshida’s Palace.

While there, Ryuji shows just how much he cares for Akiren’s well being, despite them being literal strangers! Ryuji immediately asks Akiren if he’s alright upon waking up, and it’s shown by his tone of voice and facial expression that he’s genuinely concerned for Akiren.

Akiren at this point in time can also ask Ryuji if he’s alright as well, which Ryuji replies more or less to. Then not even a few minutes later, Kamoshida comes in and sentences the both of them to death. Ryuji is understandably terrified, and claims he doesn’t want to die. However despite not wanting to die, he does show that he’s willing to do so, if it means Akiren can escape with his life.

He even orders him to run. So yes, even though Ryuji doesn’t WANT to die, and he states in terror he doesn’t want to, he was willing to die all the same. Anyone in their right mind faced with a life and death situation would also say they don’t wanna die, even if they know that dying meant that there was a chance someone else could live.

Akiren upon seeing Ryuji’s life in peril, and after watching him get tortured by Kamoshida, literally gets so fucking pissed off that he stands up to Kamoshida therefore becoming a threat to him. This in turn helps Akiren awaken to his Persona. Akiren awoke to his Persona because of his desire to save Ryuji.

Akiren stood up to Kamoshida to save Ryuji’s life, not because Kamoshida had wronged him personally, it was all to save Ryuji and that just speaks volumes to me. Because every other team mate that The Phantom Thieves gain, always awakens because they have a personal score to settle with A Palace Leader.

It’s never anything as grand as desiring to protect The already existing members of The Phantom Thieves. But here, Akiren has no personal connection with Kamoshida, he’s only heard of him being this supposed perverted teacher who preys on innocent Students who can’t fight back. Akiren’s reasoning for standing against Kamoshida was as simple as not being able to ignore that someone’s life -Ryuji’s- was in danger, and acting upon it.

{{I LITERALLY CANNOT TELL YOU JUST HOW MANY TIMES I’VE REPLAYED THIS SCENE! JUST TO WATCH AKIREN AWAKEN TO ARSENE, JUST SO HE CAN KICK SOME SHADOW ASS TO SAVE RYUJI FROM CERTAIN DEATH. LIKE FUCKING YES! AKIREN! YOU SAVE THAT BEAUTIFUL BLONDE BOY! YOU SAVE HIM AND YOU SAVE HIM GOOD!}}

After that, the two of them blindly rush off into the Palace with one another, trying to find an exit. Ryuji also shows his concern during this little segment, when they’re jumping over rushing water, telling Akiren that he better not fall while they’re crossing over the water.

Then they meet a curious feline named Morgana, whom helps them escape from Kamoshida’s Palace. Afterwards, Ryuji and Akiren become unlikely friends, pulled together by an experience only they could relate to.

Ryuji asks Akiren to meet him on the roof of the School, and there, they talk about what happened. In the end Ryuji tries to brush it all off as some weird-ass dream. But he still thanks Akiren for saving him from Kamoshida even if it was just a ‘dream’.

Ryuji also doesn’t give a damn about all these rumors spreading around Akiren, and wants to be friends.

{{Speaking of later on after Akiren tells Ryuji what actually happened that landed him in probation, Ryuji is visibly upset at this.-In the Anime he actually sheds tears upon hearing what happened- And in game he’s also upset, to the point where he raises his voice in anger upon knowing what was done to Akiren.}}

Eventually Ryuji and Akiren both go back into Kamoshida’s Palace, upon which they reunite with Morgana. While in the Palace, Akiren waits for Ryuji to memorize the faces of the Cognitive students that are being abused by Kamoshida’s Shadow, which means the real Kamoshida is abusing the real students in the School too.

One event leads to another, and we get to a point that Akiren and Morgana are rendered helpless upon the ground, about to be killed. During this event, Akiren speaks out, telling Ryuji to stand up for himself, to not allow himself to give into hopelessness.

To rise against Kamoshida, an adult who has abused, oppressed, and hurt Ryuji and caused everyone to label Ryuji as a problem child. Causing everyone to label Ryuji as the track traitor, caused the entire School and most of the Teachers to dislike Ryuji in general.

Ryuji finally gets to his feet and stands up against Kamoshida,not only because of what Kamoshida has done to him, but also because---

Akiren is about to be killed by a Shadow.

The Shadow is about to bring its sword down upon Akiren. Ryuji literally fucking woke to his Persona to save Akiren and---

That’s just fucking beautiful man.

Watching Ryuji awaken to Captain Kidd, to save the guy he now considers his best friend, even though they’ve only known one another for a short while is just-

BLESSED CONTENT.

{{LIKE EFF YA, RYUJI! YOU AWAKEN TO CAPTAIN KIDD TO SAVE YOUR BEST FRIEND AND KICK SOME ASS! FUCK THEM ALL UP YOU BEAUTIFUL REBELLIOUS SUNSHINE BOY! SHOW THEM WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THEY THREATEN THE PEOPLE YOU CARE ABOUT!}}

No other teammates have awoken to their Personas to save the other, besides Akiren and Ryuji. Both of them awoke to their Personas to save each other, and you don’t see that in ANY other awakenings. The other awakenings are all about the other Phantom Thief members standing up to the unjust treatments of the Palace rulers towards them and in Ann’s sake -other people she cares about-.

Other than that you don’t really see any of the other Phantom Thieves waking to their Persona to save one another. Akiren and Ryuji are probably the only examples of this through the entire game/anime and they’re still just fresh friends at this point.

If THIS doesn’t speak volumes about how much Akiren and Ryuji have come to care for one another, then I don’t know what fucking does. Doesn’t it seem like the start of a romance to you?

Because this just parallels the start of so many romantic stories. Two strangers coming together, both of them being cast out by society, both of them coming together and facing death defying odds and doing incredible feats to save one another.

{{Also not to mention it’s adorable how when Ryuji and Akiren go get some food, Ryuji puts more food on Akiren’s plate after he notices Akiren’s barely touched his food. And even when Akiren assures him he can do that himself, Ryuji insists that he has to TREAT him, to thank him.}}

{{Oh and this little animation of Ryuji having to touch Akiren as they open a treasure chest together.. like OMG HOW ARE THEY THIS FUCKING ADORABLE?!}}

Anyways through the course of the anime/game, Akiren and Ryuji’s friendship just deepens even more. Especially during the game in Ryuji’s confidant ranks he’s always saying how cool Akiren is. Complimenting him, and saying the cutest fucking shit like he feels free whenever he’s talking to Akiren.

Thanking Akiren whenever he gets the chance, like Ryuji literally thanks Akiren all the time. So much to the point it’s nearly god damn ridiculous the amount of times Ryuji thanks Akiren. Also just the fact that in game Akiren is given the option to square down with the former Track Team while they’re shit talking Ryuji is just... AHHHHH it warms my heart.

There’s just so many instances in game while Akiren is hanging out with Ryuji, that Ryuji will just suddenly say something so fucking heartfelt out of the god damn blue. Once Ryuji is maxed out, he tells Akiren that if he EVER needs help with anything EVER- that he’s there for him. That he has his back no matter what.

Like there’s this one instance where Ryuji tells Akiren that he found his place next to him. And then he’s like: Huh... I guess your place is next to me...

And then seriously...

During one of their hangouts, right before Ryuji and Akiren go for a ride on an attraction, Akiren has the option to tell Ryuji to go by himself.

And what is Ryuji’s reaction to that?!

“What are you scared? Don’t worry I’ll protect ya...wait... that came out wrong. Hey there’s a ton of couples around here. I wonder what they think when they see us?” - Ryuji

^^^ That’s right, he’s immediately embarrassed by what he’s said, and his mind then IMMEDIATELY jumps to the fact that there’s so many couples around them and he’s asking Akiren what they might be THINKING seeing them here together. Why would his mind even be thinking about the couples around them for?

My best guess would be he’s wondering if the couples around him think that he and Akiren are a couple. And even upon thinking that, he seems totally chill with it. Like he doesn’t really give a damn if they do or not. Honestly I think Ryuji just wanted to see what Akiren thought. Ryuji wanted to know if he was bothered by the fact that the other couples could potentially see them as a pair.

Also right before the end of the game if Akiren says that there’s nothing to see in his hometown, Ryuji will remark: What are you talking about? You’re there. -

AND IF THAT AIN’T THE GOD DAMN CUTEST FUCKING THING AHHH----

Anyways back to all the subtext that happens in the main story. Right after they take down Kamoshida, and go to the restaurant, there’s a choice for Akiren to say he’s so happy. And Ryuji says that it’s cute hearing him say something like that.

Right after that, Akiren, Ryuji and Morgana all need to go find a bathroom because they over ate. Then Shido -the uncle Ian looking ass motherfucker- comes by and is being a snobby ass bitch. Akiren has the choice to demand that he and his posse apologize to Ryuji.

After he leaves though, Akiren realizes Shido’s voice is familiar to him, but he can’t place it just yet. Ryuji at that point turns to Akiren and takes notice that something is up with him. And if Akiren says he’s feeling lightheaded, Ryuji will look concerned and say: You not feelin’ good? - In a very concerned tone, like...he’s just so worried cause his best friend is telling him he’s feeling lightheaded and not feeling well.-

But then Morgana, not really knowing why Akiren isn’t feeling well, will pipe up and just say it’s probably because neither of them eat well, and this will soothe Ryuji’s worries, because from what he knows of Akiren, it makes sense that he might not feel well at all after over eating when he doesn’t eat enough.

Ryuji is also super physically affectionate with Akiren, in the anime there’s a lot of instances where Ryuji will be touching Akiren. Either his shoulder with his hand, or he’ll drape his arm over his shoulders and pull him close to him, or he’ll press his shoulder against his.

Especially the scene in the bathhouse.

But you’re probably thinking in the anime Akiren says: “Don’t touch me”

However I think it’s so obvious that Akiren said it because he’s bashful. Ryuji literally pressed up against him with no warning, while they’re both in a tub together.

How can that not be awkward and embarrassing for Akiren, who has been presented as someone who is very socially awkward? Like he’s seriously just a god damn shy nerd that really only shows off his more confident and sassy side when he’s acting as the Leader of The Phantom Thieves.

They’re in reality, so right then Akiren isn’t the bad ass, suave Leader of The Phantom Thieves, he’s just the shy and awkward nerdy Akiren of reality.

So yes, Akiren might have told Ryuji NOT to touch him, but given all the context and subtext, it’s obvious he’s just shying away from being touched out of the blue like that.

-Also Akiren was totally fine with Ryuji touching him before that, he didn’t mind all the physical contact. So for him to suddenly be “disgusted” by Ryuji touching him in the tub makes no damn sense. Akiren didn’t mind all the other times Ryuji’s been physically close to him.

So yeh, Akiren didn’t tell Ryuji not to touch him because he was disgusted, he was just surprised. Anyone would be if their best friend just pressed up against them without warning while they were in a bath house together.-

Speaking of other physical contact they’ve had:

There’s that scene in the anime where Akiren and Ryuji’s hands linger for just a few seconds together in Sae’s Palace, right before Akiren takes the suitcase, and leaves either to pull of one of the greatest acts of deceit, or to his death. And even if Ryuji says: I’m sure you’re not gonna die

The fact that his hand lingers there against Akiren’s prove his unspoken worry for him.

And then when Akiren arrives back at Leblanc? Who is there by his side first? Ryuji. He pulls him into a one-armed side hug. So happy to see him back and safe.

{{Also I will never get over the fact that Ryuji calls Akiren by Renren in the anime quite often. Also this nickname he gave to Ren he gave it to Ren really early on in the anime. It’s like a god damn pet name that a person would give to the person of their affections. So to hear Ryuji cry out “Renren” with utter joy in the anime, and rush over to him upon coming back.... is just...GAH MY FUCKING HEART IT’S SO FULL OF RAINBOWS AND BUTTERFLIES IT’S TOO CUTE!}}

Ryuji always seems to need to be touching Akiren, like, he just needs to touch him at certain times. Like he just can’t help himself.

Oh and let’s not forget about the Hawaii trip and the gay implications in the game about Akiren that happen there.

What happens with the Hawaii trip? If Akiren -in game- doesn’t show any interests towards girls. Ryuji -in the game- will ask Akiren what kind of guys he likes. And this is no mistake, because he asks it twice. First he gets interrupted by Yuuki {{Mishima}} because he’s gotten himself sick by drinking tap water. And so he says it again.

Oh and during the school Festival, Akiren has the chance to yell to everyone he loves Ryuji. And during that moment, you can hear the 3 note happy jingle that plays when Akiren makes a confidant happy. So it heavily implies that Ryuji was secretly happy to know that Akiren was gonna say something like that. But true to Ryuji form, he would die of sheer embarrassment if Akiren shouted that in front of everyone.

Then there’s the time they’re all in Destinyland, and they’re watching the fireworks.

Yusuke says the scenery is quite beautiful.

Akiren turns to look at Ryuji - Right as Futaba playfully says this in response to Yusuke: “But it’s not as beautiful as you!” isn’t that what couples would say to one another?

Ryuji also then turns to look at Akiren after Futaba says that.

THEY’RE LEGIT LOOKING AT ONE ANOTHER! WHILE THIS TALK OF COUPLES AND BEING BEAUTIFUL IS GOING ON!

LIKE?!?!? UH------??!!?

ATLUS EXCUSE ME?!?! AT THIS POINT YOU’RE NOT EVEN BEING SUBTLE ABOUT IT ANYMORE!

Anyways lets get to late game stuff.

Like take for example- Ryuji calling up Akiren right before they take Shido down -in game- Ryuji seemed to want to tell Akiren something over the phone. But he stops himself and says never mind.

He’s like: “Hey Akiren... once we change Shido’s heart...no, nevermind, forget it.”

And then the phone call ends...

It’s like...RYUJI! WHAT WERE YOU GONNA SAY RYUJI!? TELL US RYUJI!

I don’t care who you are THAT phone call sounded like the start of a confession that Ryuji didn’t end up following through with.

Seriously there’s just so much content for these two, that it’s hard to deny that they’ve a strong bond with one another. From Ryuji defending Akiren from Makoto, saying that Akiren is an upstanding guy, to Ryuji being SERIOUSLY protective over Akiren whenever someone wrongs him.

There’s so many instances where Ryuji will yell at people that have treated Akiren unfairly.

Take Shido for example before the battle in game, Ryuji literally states: OUR LEADER’S GONE THROUGH SHIT, CAUSE OF YOU! IT’S ON!

Ryuji is ALSO very hostile towards Akechi, yes part in fact because he opposes The Phantom Thieves, but also because they discover the fact that Akechi was planning in killing Akiren. And Ryuji shows his utter distress at the fact Akiren might die because of that bastard.

OH AND BACK TO SHIDO’S PALACE

It was a god damn fucking SHAME that Akiren hardly reacted at all to the “supposed” death of Ryuji.

Literally in both the game and the anime and it hurts me so much that they didn’t give him more of a reaction.

Because you can CLEARLY tell they care so deeply for one another.

LIKE BITCH WHAT THE FUCK!?

AKIREN’S BEST FRIEND JUST SUPPOSEDLY DIED! LIKE YOU CANNOT DENY THAT OUT OF ALL HIS FRIENDSHIPS, RYUJI WAS OBVIOUSLY HIS CLOSEST AND MOST INTIMATE ONE!

LIKE LET THE BOY SHOW HIS EMOTIONS OVER THAT.

GOD DAMN THEM FOR MAKING AKIREN’S REACTION UNDERWHELMING!!!

Ahem anyways!

Onward to when after the Thieves all vanish from reality, and end up in The Velvet room prison.

Once Akiren has found Ryuji he immediately dives into how it reminds him of their first meeting, when they were locked up at Kamoshida’s Palace. Ryuji then starts to doubt what they were doing, as if all the pressure that had been weighing on them and all the responsibility they had to take up - had come crashing down on him. Akiren is then able to talk it out with Ryuji, and help him regain his drive and rebellious spirit.

. -In the anime it also seems Akiren found Ryuji first out of anyone else, like he was destined to find him, although that might be stretching it and me looking too deep, but still it just seemed too intentional-

Ryuji calls Akiren so tough, for still being able to take a stand, while he’s just sitting there trapped and being consumed by so many emotions. Ryuji remarks upon thinking about it, he’s the one that really started all this Phantom Thief stuff, because of how pissed off he was.And maybe he was just doing all this out of defiance. Akiren’s first dialogue choice option is to tell him that how he felt was fine.

Ryuji then seems utterly shocked to hear Akiren say it’s fine. But he doesn’t question it, he just accepts it as the truth. He tells Akiren he is right. Then he gets back up and calls forth his rebellious spirit to stand alongside Akiren to fight a God that they don’t even know if they have any chance of winning against.

Like how is that not giving off serious vibes of there being something more between Akiren and Ryuji?

Then finally after all the shit with Yaldabaoth is finished up, and Christmas day rolls around, and Ryuji notices that Akiren isn’t around. And that everyone seems so downcast

He’s the first to ask where Akiren is, he sounds so dismayed about it to. And upon hearing that Akiren is now in juvi, he slams his fist down into the chair booth, and cries out “WHAT THE HELL” and then he and the others all come together to try and figure out a way to help Akiren out of juvi.

Ryuji gets up and says: Yeah! Now’s not the time to be hangin’ our heads!”

Then afterwards he firmly states: We’re gonna save our leader, no matter what it takes!”

Once Akiren is back, Ryuji is just so frikken overjoyed about it. In the anime he once again even calls out to Akiren as: RENREN! - In that excitable tone of his, showing just how happy he is.

Now we get to Valentines day. In the game if Akiren didn’t date any girls, Ryuji comes over and spends the day with Akiren. He even gives him chocolate. If Akiren asks Ryuji if it’s a confession he’s like: HELL NO.

And also depending on the choices you pick with Akiren there’s a dialogue path where Ryuji states he’s done with girls - and even though he says this: “you think I’ll get a girlfriend before I graduate highschool” - probably added for comedic affect, and Ryuji just pouting about it. He’s just a lonely boy really.

However that’s the in game version, but in the anime OVA hooo boooyyyy. That’s soo different! In the anime Valentines ova special.

In the anime ova special: A Magical Valentine’s Day-- Ryuji comes in all pouty. He even shakes Akiren asking him “what does it mean” after saying Yusuke got chocolates and after stating Mishima ain’t there.

Ryuji sits back for a moment, then asks Akiren if he got any chocolates. Once Akiren says he didn’t Ryuji takes Akiren’s hand in both of his and sounds so jubilant that Akiren didn’t get any chocolates.

He cries out joyfully: “THAT’S MY RENREN!”

You hear that he says: MY

He calls Ren HIS!

HE LITERALLY IS CALLING REN HIS HERE.

Not only that he’s cradling Ren’s hand in his, all tender like, and he gives him the chocolate.

Akiren then asks Ryuji if he’s his Valentine.

To which Ryuji replies: Yes, yes you are...

But upon realizing what he’s said, he gets undeniably flustered and adds: NOT!

At the end of it. But he fucking SAID it. He admitted that yes, Akiren was his Valentine. Even if he added the not on there. HE SAID YES. Not only that he said YES TWICE.

Then Ryuji suggests they close the shop and hang out.

Afterwards we get to see Akiren and Ryuji standing closely together in the attic, through the window, and Ryuji totally pulls Akiren closer to him. Heavily implying that they probably kissed.

Cause if you watch the whole special, every date ends with Akiren getting a kiss from his date!

So why the hell would Akiren and Ryuji’s special not end with a KISS? Even if we cannot clearly see that kiss.

I’m not saying that they kissed...

OH TO HELL WITH IT.

THEY KISSED! THEY TOTALLY KISSED.

Anyways, I’m just stating the fact that this pairing seems to sail itself in the main story of the game, and in the anime itself. There’s just so much between them that points to the fact that there’s much more going on with them than just being friends.

Their relationship is made so it can be viewed in a romantic way. And I just happen to think that due to all this evidence, the subtle hints, the not so subtle hints, and the way Akiren and Ryuji seem to adore one another to the point they can tell each other anything, and everything, and be so trusting and physically affectionate - that Akiren/Ryuji is ENDGAME.

But hey that’s just a theory a GAME/ANIME THEORY!

I’m sorry. I’ll shut up now.

But before I do, this is just a reminder that this is all my personal views, and I’m not asking people to enjoy this ship. If you don’t care for this ship, or for Ryuji as a character, or you don’t think that Ryuji or Akiren are either gay/bi - then that’s fine with me. You can dislike this ship or not agree.

Just don’t come storming into my inbox, or reblogging this with negativity, I beg you. I don’t want to see any negative stuff being sent my way for just expressing my love for this ship. If you want to talk about your dislike for this ship then do it somewhere else and DON’T involve me!

With that being said, I believe that Ryuji is bi, and Akiren is probably gay. And no matter what Atlus says contrary wise, there’s just too much implications to be denied here. Through the entire game and anime itself it just seems to hold so much Akiren/Ryuji content. There’s just so much of it that I’ve probably missed many scenes just while writing this post.

This is why to me Akiren/Ryuji are boyfriends and why they will always be my number 1 favorite Persona 5 ship.

A Good friend of mine put the relationship of Akiren/Ryuji into simple and sweet words and I’d like to share it as my closing statement:

My Good Friend:

Don’t get me wrong, I love their canon friendship so much. Their loyalty and willingness to die for each other and their friends fills me with joy. But bro...They are so intimate that it borderlines their friendship and becomes something so much more. Its beyond friendship, and beyond romantic love

HHhhhhh I LOVE THEM SHSJJS

And it really baffles me that there is people out there that somehow cannot see this. Or that they dont think this is the case

Their relationship (romantic or platonic) is so raw and powerful that you can see it miles away, like the ship or the characters or not. I can make a whole essay of why Akiren/Ryuji IN GENERAL is so beautiful and why they are so perfect for each other.

-END STATEMENT-

Thank you so much for reading, and I hope to those of you who do enjoy this ship are pleased with this post~

#Persona 5 #pegoryu #Akiryu #Akiren/Ryuji #Shipping #Persona 5 Ship #Ship Rank #In depth essay of the Pegoryu ship #Shipping support #I swear don't drag me into negativity #please just let me ship these two in peace #ignore this if you don't like this ship #leave me out of your ship hate

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calenheniel · 4 years

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Queen of the Ashes | extended author’s notes

In which I delve into the themes, symbolism, and creation of my latest fic.

Foreword

I’ve been writing in the Hans/Elsa fandom since 2014 now, and yet, to my surprise, had never delved into the world of the “Hans with fire powers” genre. I’d enjoyed the art and fics for it, but didn’t have a good idea of what to write on the topic myself, though the idea percolated in my mind that I should, at some point, contribute to it. After bandying ideas back and forth with a friend off-Tumblr, the first line of the story came to me: “They met as children.”

Fics about Hans and Elsa meeting pre-Frozen are also common in the fandom, and to my mind, the notion that they would have met before completely changed how they would interact during the coronation sequence (and “every moment after,” as Hans might say himself). Add to that the notion that Hans, like Elsa, had secret powers – in addition to all their other shared experiences, which the fans elucidate through fics and art and posts – and it creates a new and tantalizing dynamic to tease out over the course of many chapters. It also begged the question, to me at least: even if they had met when they were kids, and realized some of their likenesses, could they still have successfully overcome their individual traumas as adults?

I had promised, for some time, that I would explain in full the background behind this fic, including symbols and themes which readers may have missed along the way. In particular, I am aware that the Epilogue may have unsettled or taken unaware some of them who had enjoyed the quasi-happy ending of the preceding chapter—a phenomenon which I was well aware might happen from the very beginning. It is therefore my hope that the following notes elucidate some of the mystery of the story, and why it ended the way it did. (And I’m tagging @yumi-michiyo, who helped me to summarize my thoughts more cleanly in discussing them with her.)

Theme: abuse (and its consequences)

There are many allusions in Queen of the Ashes to various types of abuse experienced by its main characters: parental and familial; physical and verbal; intentional and unintentional; organizational and relational. While some are described in an overt manner with little ambiguity, others are less obvious, but no less malicious in their impacts on the character.

When reading into the various traumas of the characters, it is easier to ascribe value judgments to the actions of certain characters over others. It would be difficult for anyone to argue that Hans’s father and brothers, for example, weren’t terribly abusive towards Hans; likewise, it would be hard to ignore that the insistence of Elsa’s parents for her to “conceal, don’t feel” had tangibly negative psychological consequences on their daughter, regardless of their good intentions. The consequences of such abuse on both characters are obvious: towards themselves and their powers, they are taught to feel fear, anxiety, discomfort, denial, and confusion; towards others, they can be perceived as childlike and their decisions arbitrary and cruel, cynical of the outside world, unable to trust, and blaming all else but themselves for their troubles.

On the flip side, the abuse which Hans then inflicts on Elsa – pursuing her in spite of her telling him to leave (on multiple occasions), leveraging family connections (Anna) to pressure her into speaking and meeting with him, taking advantage of her self-doubt and fear to convince her to trust only him, lying to her about his true nature and his past misdeeds, pressuring her to continue hiding her powers up until and even after they are married – is in many ways subtler, disguised as him trying to help her accept her powers and herself (even as he tells her that no one else will accept or understand her, except him). They are also characteristic of the deceptions deployed by the character in canon to achieve his objectives, even if they were, originally, used on Anna (whom he also lies to in this story, for other reasons).

It is understandably harder to view Hans’s actions in the same light as those of his parents, or her parents, as we are led to believe that he truly does care about Elsa in this story, and feels a special kinship with her on account of their shared miseries and strengths. I am not here to say definitively, one way or the other, if he cares about her or doesn’t; that is always up to the readers to decide. The point is rather to illuminate how difficult it can be to tell deceptions from truth when the deceptions are told from a sympathetic perspective, and when the deceptions appear to be borne from circumstances so harrowing and tragic that the readers might be inclined to forgive them their trespasses against other characters.

When viewed in the context of their upbringings, we can more clearly see the full cycle of abuse: that which was perpetrated against our protagonists, and that which they, in turn, can and do perpetrate against each other. In attempting to break this cycle, and start a new life with Elsa, Hans ends up playing into similar patterns of manipulation and coercion with her, her family, and her people which he had internalized over many years of suffering the same. Whether he does this on purpose or inadvertently is up for interpretation, but still beside the point, which is: in trying to be the opposite of his family, and then in killing that family, he begins to resembles them.

Theme: perspective

As in several other of my fics released over the last few years, this story experiments with narrative and perspective, describing to the audience the events of the story through only one character per chapter. For the majority of the story, we are shown events from Elsa’s perspective (Chapters 2-8 and 10), and given special insight into her years of isolation and accompanying mental distress. No other character is allotted as much time and room to think and develop and reflect on everything that is happening to them, as Elsa is; and yet, at the same time, we are rarely allowed all the way in to see and know her thoughts in each moment beyond the whispers of “conceal, don’t feel, don’t let it show” that echo through her mind, in empty rooms, and from her own lips.

We are mostly shown her reactions to things that are happening to or around her, and given vague descriptions otherwise about “off-screen” moments like meetings or public hearings where her attention is not fully present. Upon a second reading, it might become more difficult to be certain about what exactly is going through her mind, especially towards the end in Chapter 10 and the Epilogue (in which we are removed from her perspective entirely, and see her only as Hans does).

In Chapters 1, 9, and the Epilogue, by contrast, we are shown events from Hans’s perspective: as a child, then chronologically from childhood through adulthood, and finally just after he is crowned King of Arendelle and married to Elsa. We first meet Elsa and Anna through his eyes and experience his pain, though the source of it is not confirmed until later in the story. When we finally learn about his powers through the confrontation with Elsa in Chapter 8, we are briefly allowed back into his perspective in Chapter 9 in order to experience his ordeals and better understand his motivations.

With so little “screen time,” however, it is difficult to know or understand Hans in the same way we think we do Elsa. We trust him when Elsa does (or perhaps before, if we are sympathetic to the child Hans from Chapter 1), and believe that his version of events as recounted in Chapter 9 must be true and accurate due to their disturbing nature. Even when we are presented with evidence which suggests that his actions aren’t as pure and good as they seem (see notes on the symbolism of roses, apples, and gloves below), we are unlikely to question the validity of his memories and intentions towards Elsa, since, as the victim of severe abuse, we cannot fathom that he would inflict the same on someone he appears and claims to deeply cares for.

It is easy to forget, in these switching perspectives, the complexity and development of the characters, and how certain aspects from earlier on in the story – such as Elsa’s initial suspicion of Hans and his motives – might return even after the “happy ending” of Chapter 10. A common critique of romantic comedies (and Disney movies) is that they end just as the relationship is about to begin—the relationship being the more difficult part of the story to explain and understand, with less romance and more compromise and bargaining.

The Epilogue therefore serves as an antidote to this trope in asking: what would actually happen after Hans and Elsa came together? How would he publicly court her, given his sour reputation? How would he help her to control her powers, while still keeping them (and his own) a secret, and convincing her to do the same? If they decided to get married, how could they continue to keep it a secret? Could Elsa ever truly forgive and forget Hans’s past misdeeds, and cover up his crimes in perpetuity?

And, perhaps, the kicker: Did Hans ever really care for, or love, Elsa during the course of the story—or does he just see her as an extension of himself and his own trauma? Did Elsa love him in return? Can there be love without trust?

It is impossible to answer these questions wholly when the chapter is presented only from Hans’s perspective, as it is; and even if it were from Elsa’s, we would still be missing half the story. In place of seeing both points of view at once, we are left to put the pieces together ourselves of what happened in the year between Chapter 10 and the Epilogue, relying on our knowledge of both characters’ actions from earlier chapters in the story to make sense of their final decisions and feelings.

Symbolism: roses

Roses play an important symbolic role in the story, and feature both in Chapter 6, during Hans and Elsa’s conversation in the rose garden of the castle in Arendelle, as well as in the Epilogue, wherein Hans offers Elsa a rose made of flames during his proposal (which she then turns into ice).

Hans, comparing Elsa to a rose in Chapter 6, frames it thusly:

“You know, Elsa,” he began, “roses are actually rather difficult to grow. The conditions have to be just right, with plenty of sunshine, well-drained soil, and in areas free from pests, since they’re so susceptible to disease. Without regular attention, it’s unlikely they’d survive.” He eyed her pointedly as he added: “So it’s a wonder that these are still here, and blooming as beautifully as they are.”

The unspoken implication of this analogy is that Elsa, as a delicate and fragile flower, must be taken care of and tended to. Thus, the paternalistic warning underlying his speech is that she will decay without proper handling, and that he is the one who can handle her. Even when Elsa rejects this perspective and the analogy itself (“I’m not a rose, Hans. I don’t require sunlight, or pruning, or ‘regular attention’ to endure”), a feminist reading of this scene might say that he still forces her to take on the feminine duty of caring for him when he plucks the rose from the bush in order to make his point, reinforcing the dominance of the male gaze and viewpoint during this scene.

Likewise, his traditional proposal to her as described in the Epilogue, even with the untraditional aspect of his created rose of flame, could be interpreted as him delineating their roles in their future married life together—with Elsa’s ice solidifying this arrangement. In both chapters, Hans is literally leading Elsa “down the primrose path”: showing her what a world wherein she is free from fear and doubt would look like, but only if she puts her trust in him, and discards the memories of and attachment to her deceased parents. (The idiom itself refers to leading a life of leisure and sin in place of morality and good judgment, and so you can see its application here. You are all also more than entitled to feel that I, as the author, also led you down the “primrose path” in the sudden atmospheric shift between Chapter 10 and the Epilogue.)

Symbolism: apple

Similar to the rose, the apple featured in Chapter 7 is an explicit nod not only to the temptation of Eve in the Garden of Eden – and the accompanying downfall of mankind – but also to many other stories of temptation leading to damnation, such as Snow White.

As Hans points out in his speech to Elsa:

“Fine things, apples, when they’re ripe like this. Beautiful, even—your mouth waters just looking at it, thinking about how sweet or tart it might be. But then […] You see something like this, and even though you want to take a bite out of it, you think, ‘well, I’d better just check.’ So you take out a knife and cut it open,” he said, and dug both of his thumbs into the side where the hole was. “And what do you find? […] Nothing but a rotten, brown core,” he continued, a sigh escaping his lips as he gazed into the fruit’s ruined interior.

[…]

“I know that the memories of your parents are precious to you,” he murmured, his grasp soft, “and I don’t mean to deny you them. I only ask you to question what happened—to ask yourself what good it did you to be kept inside all these years, separated from your sister. And all because of what? You hurt her once, when you didn’t know any better,” he said, “and they made you pay for it, for every moment after. But you shouldn’t have to anymore.”

While he is making the analogy in order to imply that Elsa’s parents, though well-intentioned, still raised her within an immoral and abusive environment, the apple also serves to illustrate the darker side of Hans’s own behavior and speech. On the surface, he is trying to help Elsa remove the “rose-colored lenses” through which she still views her parents, and to see her powers as a gift and not a curse; but as he grabs her hand and pressures her to listen to him (“The juice from the putrid core of the apple oozed out from his fingers onto the back of her hand, and she grimaced, the sensation causing her skin to go cold”), the graphic description of the decay, corruption, and stench of the apple implies that he, too, may be acting from less than noble motives.

Symbolism: gloves

Perhaps the most obvious symbolism in any Frozen fanfic dealing extensively with Elsa’s and Hans’s emotional trauma relates to their gloves. What does it mean when the characters are wearing them, or when they’re not wearing them?

These questions have been analyzed pretty thoroughly in various Tumblr posts over the years, and I don’t want to belabor the point by adding on to them. In no uncertain terms, the wearing of the gloves relates to deception, manipulation, control, and fear, while not wearing them relates to the release of inhibitions, and being one’s true self. The former is evident in Elsa’s coronation sequence in the first film (as well as in this story), as well as during the original Hans villain reveal scene. The latter is evident in the most famous sequence and song from the film, “Let It Go.”

In this story, however, the roles are somewhat reversed: where in the original film Hans wore his gloves up until he was revealed to be the “big baddie,” he doesn’t wear them at all in this fic except for in flashbacks (Chapter 1 and Chapter 9, respectively), and in the Epilogue. Meanwhile, Elsa is gloved for almost the entirety of the story, with only short instances of being ungloved (in Chapters 1, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10). Until the Epilogue, almost all of these instances occur due to her interactions with Hans; whether from pressure or curiosity or affection, she reveals her hands to him and him only, deepening their connection and her confidence in him with each new physical encounter.

Unlike the film, moreover, this story does not tie honesty to being ungloved: Hans goes the majority of the fic without them, and is lying to Elsa about his powers up until Chapter 9. Instead, he uses the seemingly improper visage of his bare hands to his advantage in gaining Elsa’s trust, showing her that he trusts her by touching her skin directly—and that she can (and should) trust him.

When Hans’s deception is revealed in Chapter 9, rather than the gloves being an obvious marker of his villainy that the reader can point to, their absence reinforces his power over Elsa. It is a literal “sleight of hand” he performs by demonstrating the extent to which he has gained control over his own powers in comparison to her, as she still struggles to maintain the veneer of “normalcy” in her day to day life. He convinces Elsa, and therefore many readers who see themselves in her character, that he was dishonest for “good” reasons; his hands, bare as before, do not hide anything from her (and us, by extension).

This is turned on its head in the Epilogue, wherein we learn, thanks to Elsa’s observation, that he is wearing his gloves again:

“You’re wearing gloves,” she observes, ignoring his question.

He stifles a swallow. “It’s the least I could do, on such an auspicious day,” he replies, struggling to keep his smile in place. “It would look odd to have bare hands for our wedding, after all.”

Suspicion flashes across her gaze at the answer, but she says nothing, looking back at the dance floor. She watches her sister with something between longing and regret, though the emotions are so fleeting that the king cannot be sure if he saw them at all.

The implication is that by putting his gloves back on, Hans has committed himself – and Elsa, who shares similar abilities – to a future of continued deception and manipulation, never revealing the truth about himself and his powers to the public. In Hans’s weak reply and Elsa’s sharp and suspicious look at him (not to mention her own, bare hands) afterwards, we can surmise that she has already realized this. In her quoting back to him the lines he once told her (““I do. But love… isn’t always good”) and rejecting his overtures of affection, we can see that she will not accept such a fate for herself.

The notion that she rejects his beliefs and worldview might have profound, if unseen, consequences for the story. Will she follow the path of her character in canon, freezing over Arendelle and retreating to her palace of ice and snow? Will she reveal her powers - and his - to the public? Will she tell Anna what really happened to them as children? The possibilities are endless, but the core message of the story is the same: the truth will always come out.

Concluding thoughts

It’s undeniable that I tend to write tragic or “angsty” stories compared to the rest of the fandom (and in particular the Hans/Elsa fandom), though I’d like to think my stories provide a space for those who are interested in exploring that darker side of the story. The purpose of the ending is not to upend what came before for the sake of “staying the course” in this genre, or playing to my strengths as a writer within it. Rather, it is to make the reader think more carefully about the nature of Hans and Elsa’s interactions, the nature of their relationship, and the nature of abuse itself, including all the insidious and subtle forms it might take.

This is not to say that the ending implies anything one way or the other, in terms of their feelings for one another. One reader might see Hans as a true “knight in shining armor” saving Elsa from the gaslighting of her past, while another might see him as gaslighting Elsa. Another might still see how they lie to each other about their beliefs and pasts, and their feelings around both, and think the relationship is doomed to fail as a result. And that is the true purpose of this story: it is meant to leave us wondering how love can survive without truth, and if the characters would ever be able to overcome their past trauma individually, much less together.

#QueenoftheAshesFrozen #frozen #frozen fanfiction #helsa #frozen symbolism #this was not intended to be so long #I just had a ton of thoughts to share #hope this is helpful for all readers #and maybe fic writers too!

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adobe-outdesign · 5 years

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Some SL Fake Ending AU Headcanons

Michael approached them once the dayshift started (figuring that the wouldn’t kill him with the others around) and led them into his house via the passageways, which are off-camera.

They have aa deal going on: as long as Michael keeps them safe, they won’t skin him. If anyone finds out about them they go back to their original plan.

While they occasionally mention killing him, it becomes more and more obvious over time that they’re not actually going to do it and it’s just an empty threat.

When the CBEAR employees start coming around his house he has Ennard hide in the closet while he smooth-talks it over with them. Eventually they just stop coming over at all.

Ennard stays in Elizabeth’s old room, as she recognizes it as her own. They like to sit on the bed and hold her toys.

In general it takes a long time, but Michael slowly starts to be able to recognize more and more of his sister in Ennard, and starts being glad they they’re around. It’s not like he didn’t miss her, after all.

At first Michael is kind of terrified of them, but over time that gradually goes away and his fear dissolves into mundanity.

Michael gave Ennard their name (as they didn’t have one for themselves), and they liked it enough that they just kind of stuck with it.

Michael has a nightmare about things crawling under his skin and wakes up to find Ennard like less than a foot away from him

“what are you dong” “we were watching you sleep” “I can see that”

After a while he gets used to it and just pushes them out of the way in the morning so he can get ready

Ennard in general has no concept of personal space, like, at all. They insist on following MIchael everywhere and he has to shoo them out of his room constantly so he can get dressed

It takes Michael over half an hour to style his hair into that 80s style pompadour. Ennard, in true sibling fashion, has made it their personal mission to ruin his hair at every opportunity

Ennard insists on critiquing Michael’s awful eating habits because they might still need his skin (a whole cup of melted exotic butter on that popcorn dude? seriously?) and Michael’s just like “I didn’t nearly die for this just let me eat”

William owns a bunch of books on human anatomy (because reasons) and Ennard insists on reading them (because reasons). Michael is extremely uncomfortable with this but even more uncomfortable with the idea of trying to tell them no

The others still end up fighting with Baby, except this time they have MIchael there to talk them trough it and it’s like counseling a bunch of small children

“liz you have to let the others have a turn once in a while” “but this was my plan” “sharing is caring”

Ennard starts watching The Immortal and the Restless with Michael just to be around him only to end up ironically enjoying it.

They insist on having some of his popcorn too but they don’t try to eat it. They just stand there the entire show holding a handful of it

Michael is willing to pretend to be William for their sake, but after a while they start to figure out who he actually is (mostly thanks to more current photos of the both of them).

They are so heartbroken when they find out - Elizabeth thought William loved her because he came back for her, but it turns out both of those statements are probably untrue.

Michael generally avoids touching them (they already kind of want his skin, he doesn’t need to encourage them), but they just sound so heartbroken that he can’t help hug them.

Michael has generally been growing less and less found of William and is starting to see through his abuse as he realizes that if he had followed his father’s instructions he would have been killed, and it’s unlikely he would have even cared.

When he takes the job at FFPS he ends up bringing Ennard in with him, seeing as there’s not actual kids and it’s a good way for them to get out of the house.

Once he finds William he’s not sure if he should let them meet or not - Elizabeth certainly deserves to talk to him (and possibly beat him up), but he also doesn’t want her getting manipulated.

When Henry tells him about his plan to burn the place Michael’s originally against letting Ennard stay, because he already lost his sister once and he doesn’t want to lose her again. Henry talks him into it though, pointing out that Elizabeth is starting to forget and get lost to the animatronic, so it would be best to let her pass on (especially because they might hurt others or himself if Elizabeth isn’t holding them back anymore).

Michael’s plan was originally to act completely normal at home, but he fails and just starts crying (which concerns the hell out of Ennard because Michael never cries, or really shows any emotion for that matter). The last time he cried was hearing Elizabeth speak back in the Private Room.

Unlike in canon, Michael (still being alive and all that) escapes instead of staying behind once the fire starts.

He moves back to England shortly thereafter, because the farther he can get away from Hurricane, the better.

#five nights at freddy's #fnaf #sister location #ennard #michael afton #outdesign posts things #outdesign has headcanons #this is the good AU we all deserve

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thefandomlesbian · 4 years

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Madison wasn’t a child, though, I thought all the girls in Coven where young adults, at least over 18? Zoe should have been at least like 19 so wouldn’t Madison be at least the same age or a bit older, based on the actresses ages? She never told Cordelia she had been raped, the only time Cordelia heard about it was when Zoe got scared and said it along with a bunch of other stuff. Anyway yes it was wrong that she didn’t ask Madison after that and did nothing after knowing, but imo that was completely out of character... it was bad writing like the many plot holes in that show. It just doesn’t match Cordelia’s personality to act that way, the writers chose to never bring up what happened again. They didn’t even show how it affected Madison and they used the rape just for shock value and to add nothing to Madison’s arc. Just like they never did anything with the incest plot with Kyle. The decided not to mention it in the show ever again. Cordelia wasn’t a bad person and she truly cared for the girls (and she showed it later in Coven and then even more in Apocalypse) the show is just very inconsistent and the characterization is a mess.

The original statement on the wiki was that Zoe was seventeen and the source has since expired but I do hold that to be canon, which implies Madison is also 17-20 years old. She's attending a boarding school where Cordelia is literally responsible for her and Cordelia didn't give a shit when she went missing. Being "legally" of age doesn't change the morality of the situation. Madison had been horribly abused and neglected her entire life up until that point, and her behavior was a reflection of that, and Cordelia blew her off as "just a troublemaker." She was not a good teacher. Madison said so to Zoe in the first episode when she told Zoe that Cordelia just wanted them to learn how to suppress their powers; it was more or less implied that Cordelia's job was to get the girls to bend their magic down and squish it, and I find that easy to believe, given she married a human.

Madison isn't the only example of this. She didn't care when Queenie left to join Marie Laveau and she didn't even look for Queenie's body after Hank shot up the Voodoo witches and was surprised when Queenie came back alive. She didn't question that Nan... Fell in the tub? under her care. As Queenie stated outright, Cordelia was flying high just because Myrtle had gotten her her vision back, and she tried to reassure the girls by telling them of her new strength, and Queenie said, "One witch is dead and another is missing. You are as weak as you ever were." Only that was a kick in the butt enough to get her to try to do something to find Misty (too little too late for Nan), and instead of being criticized, the canon narrative and the fandom alike romanticize the hell out of that choice.

Then in Apocalypse she slaps Madison in one episode and the next Madison literally volunteers to sacrifice her life for them and there is no apology or exchange about it—there is no excuse for Cordelia to ever put her hands on one of her students, ever, for any reason.

I don't disagree that Cordelia is a victim of bad writing, but I maintain that she isn't a good teacher and that the canon wants us to think she's a lot more pure than she is in reality. She ignored her students having substance abuse issues, ignored students' behavioral issues, provided no emotional support resources for students like Zoe and Madison who arrived after killing someone with their powers, ignored students going missing, ignored students being raped, ignored students' valid concerns about the welfare of their classmates (when she continually blew Nan off for insisting Madison was dead and then was surprised when the council showed up), chose to go out drinking and left students unsupervised with an immortal racist, had her all female students living in a home with her male husband under the same roof, ignored deaths when they occurred, and showed extremely questionable decision making skills all the way until the end of Coven. Having Myrtle burned at the stake was not the logical decision to make, as much as Myrtle insisted it was. The eyes of the world were upon them, and the first thing they see is the coven brutalizing one of their own? Cordelia and the coven would've been arrested on the spot.

There is far from one instance that makes her an incapable teacher. I don't like her character, and I don't like her actions. She is every well-intentioned adult who has ever hurt a child by being ignorant and self-absorbed and not noticing signs of trauma and poor coping mechanisms right in front of their face. Madison deserved better from her teacher and from her school.

I also don't disagree that Cordelia cared for her students, but caring for and actually being responsible for are two very different things. Hell, at that point, she jeopardized the whole coven just to ask Michael to bring Misty back; she led the coven into Outpost 3 where they were all violently killed and she had no choice but to kill herself to transfer the supremacy (which led to the worst ending of the century, but I digress).

Again, I don't think Cordelia's actions are defensible, and I maintain the only reason anyone thinks that is the narrative is skewed in such a way to make her look like the good guy. Told through a different lens where she wasn't meant to be the character the audience was rooting for, her negative actions and faults would be much more clear, and she wouldn't be the fan favorite character anymore. That much is clear with Lana—objectively, Lana's actions after Asylum were not that bad. The worst thing she did was become a little dismissive of Kit and walk away from her promise to help the people in the asylum where she had literally been tortured and where it was extremely painful and triggering for her to revisit. But because the narrative was tilted in such a way to make her seem selfish and self-absorbed, suddenly everyone in the fandom hates her because "she wasn't a good person anymore" when I've just listed oodles of instances of bad behavior on Cordelia's part that Lana never would've exhibited. (I think this narrative choice on part of Murphy was 100% due to lesbophobia, but that's beside the point.)

The narrative wants you to think Cordelia is pure and simply the best character because she's well-intentioned and has a big heart, but under the surface level, she repeatedly makes irrational decisions and takes actions that are not for the common good. Or worse, she doesn't act at all. In nursing, we say, "Inaction is an action." Choosing not to act when someone, especially someone you're responsible for like a student, is in peril is an action all of its own, and it speaks much louder than any superficial words.

#ive had this debate dozens of times and i have yet to change my mind

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psyga315 · 4 years

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Fixing RWBY Volume 3

Volume 3 is most likely not going to receive a lot of changes due to how this is the lynchpin for which all other RWBY volumes make or break. It is because of Volume 3 that people were either turned off or were re-engaged by the tonal shift and it is because of Volume 3 for which people compare all other finales to, as well as scenes that were clearly made to recapture that feeling from Volume 3.

So, instead of going episode by episode in trying to change plot elements, I’m going to go in broad strokes with this.

Like before, I’d recommend Celtic Phoenix’s Fixing Volume 3 video, though only for the Vytal Festival Tournament and Cinder’s overall plan. After that, all bets are off.

Though, we need to address the Goliath in the room. Midway through Volume 3’s production, Monty Oum passed away and, if Shane Newville is to be believed (which, given how they used Adam’s V3 fight footage for V6, might be more likely), a lot of stuff was changed last minute, much to Shane’s chagrin. Now, some rewrites would simply go for “let’s go with the original plans” route, but I find that would be not only too easy, but would go into the route of “this is what Monty wanted”, which is not only a stupid complaint in more ways than one, but a real slap in the face to his friends.

Instead, I want to go with a somewhat more… meta route. I understand that this is a little more controversial, so if you wish, you may skip this. The long story short is that we’d be getting a 2.5 where we see the Vytal Festival Tournament and its ulterior motive is to get animators that hopefully would not lead to the fight scene drought of Volumes 4 through 5. Also, Jason Liebrecht is Qrow instead of Vic because Vic was busy in another role by the time RWBY finishes up with 2.5.

Those Who Treasure Monty

We begin in our world, on February 2, 2015, news of Monty Oum’s passing breaks out onto the web and a long, lingering shadow is cast over RWBY’s future. Even with multiple confirmations that RWBY will continue, it’s clear that without Monty Oum’s animation, RWBY would eventually slow to a crawl in fight choreography.

So, RT is forced to make a decision. They need to put RWBY off for a year while they figure out how to proceed. To ensure the RWBY fans stay sated and to search for talent that could either replicate or even succeed Oum’s, they create short, five-minute fights set during the Vytal Festival tournament that anyone with an animating talent can use. While some used Poser like RWBY, the fact that Maya is used more gets RT to thinking… Perhaps they should make the switch to Maya.

It’s been stated that Monty insisted on Poser when Maya was a superior option, and I wanted to reflect that in this meta-arc. This would also pave the way for animators to get RT’s spotlight.

In the middle of this hiatus, we’d also get Grimm Eclipse, which, given how not a lot of attention is given to RWBY proper, means that RT would funnel more support into the game’s first year than they did originally. This might also get Gray to try and put his name out by doing Gen:Lock, or at least releasing teasers for it, much like how Monty hyped RWBY through the four trailers.

The fights are in a purgatory of “semi-canon”, where it technically happened, but don’t expect RT to actually call back to it. Much like the DC Comics. HEY-O!

By the end of this hiatus, RT will most likely get their new talent and will definitely cut ties with Sheena and Shane, much like they did originally, but hopefully with less resentment given the cooldown. RWBY would get an October 2016 premiere which would be predated by RWBY vs. ABRN, JNPR vs. BRNZ, and SSSN vs. NDGO being the final three fights for Volume 2.5, done by people who would end up being lead animators for RWBY going forward. The last of the fights will end on a familiar scene.

“Wow, now that was a match!”

“Pheh, that was a mess…”

The latter of which being delivered by Jason Liebrecht. I reason that, in the time RWBY took to process the passing of their brainfather, Vic would most likely have been in another role and be too busy to do Qrow. This would also avoid the… unfortunate circumstance of which we shall not name.

With that, we shall properly proceed to…

RWBY, Volume 3, The Vytal Festival Arc

By the time 3 kicks off, we’re already done with the first round, having already seen most of it from 2.5. We instead open up with Ruby talking to her mom, the final moments of RWBY vs ABRN, and Ruby and her friends celebrating their victory, much like V3. What changes is that JNPR is also celebrating their victory over BRNZ.

However, it’s clear that not everything is bright. Ruby’s still scarred over the Breach, Blake is frustrated with the lack of closure they got and believes that the case is still not over, and Yang is thinking back to what Raven said, to which we get an extended flashback of Raven explaining that she saved her once and that Yang should not expect her to save Yang again and also how Summer was a pawn in a larger game. She doesn’t say much, but she leaves enough information for Yang to know who Summer was a pawn for: Ozpin.

We end Episode with a ship entering Vytal and Qrow deliberately going over to face it as Weiss looks on in a bright smile. Episode 2 kicks off with Qrow vs. Winter, now being a lot more vicious as Qrow believes Ironwood to be putting his jackboot over Vale and strangling what free will the people had remaining. We get to see his bad luck be put into motion as bystanders get attacked by debris and getting injured in the process. His Semblance is literally uncontrollable. However, the trick is to not show that this is his Semblance until Volume 4.

Glynda and Ironwood arrive and chew out both Winter and Qrow for their fighting. Even though they have differing opinions on Ironwood, Qrow is explicitly told that his drunken fits only help to cause fear, something Ozpin does not want in the Vytal Festival. Qrow brings up that Ironwood’s army is bringing fear and while Ozpin agrees, also agrees with Ironwood that it also brings some form of safety. Bottom line with how the scene plays out is that Qrow, while a valuable asset on the battlefield in more ways than one is outright a liability in social situations, made apparent when he hangs out with his niece(s) and only makes a bad situation worse by making his “cut one Taijitu head and now the other one calls the shots” speech sound way worse than it sounds.

However, there’s also subtle nods that imply that the only reason he’s such a drunken wreck with social skills so bad that he’s actively making things worse is because of the trauma he received from his days of being in STRQ and serving Oz. Basically, downplay the comedy of Qrow being drunk and show off that Qrow being drunk is a bad thing like in Volume 6.

Winter also has her hangups. Because of being raised by her abusive father, Winter inherited a bit of that. Think the DC Comics version of Willow. Weiss notably sees just how much like her father Winter’s become and Winter tells her that her ambition of being a Huntress has done more harm than good, bringing up her scar. Winter then tells her why she came. Not just to oversee the deployment of new robots, but also to warn Weiss. Jacques cutting Weiss off and constantly calling her is his way of saying “Okay, this is getting out of hand, come home or I will take you myself.” This kinda worries Weiss quite a bit.

The doubles match are the ones that are a major focus for episodes 3 & 4, showcasing Yang and Weiss vs. Neon and Flynt, Nora and Pyrrha vs. Sun and Neptune, Mercury and Emerald vs. Coco and Yatsuhashi, and Penny and Ciel vs. some random members of CRDL. Not a lot of changes here. With a whole episode to ourselves, we can spend that to see our cast one final time before the plot throws them into hell. Weiss talks to Ruby about her father, she assures her that RWBY will not leave her side. Blake tells Yang about her worries for the White Fang, especially since her name had been publicized by the tournament, even knowing that Yang is hiding something.

We end the episode with Glynda asking Ozpin if he’s sure about something and he reassures her that time is of the essence and that they have no other option. “The only one with a choice will be her.” Before we cut to Pyrrha.

Episode 6 is unaltered, except there’s a heavier emphasis of Ozpin pushing the issue onto Pyrrha and making it clear that it’s making her mentally unstable.

RWBY, Volume 3, The Fall of Beacon

Okay, the only thing that changes for Episode 7? NO BLACK SCREENS! It works for some mystery with the Grimm and Salem, but for meeting Roman?! So, no black screen. If you need to add mystery, just add dark shadows and for the Grimm, glowing eyes. The biggest change would be how Cinder interacts with Adam. Obviously, we keep how he acts in the flashback… But we get a bonus scene of Cinder talking to Adam and manipulating him into resenting Blake for leaving him. Boom. We got our transition covered.

The only change for Episode 8 is that Blake doesn’t go “lol, okay” when she gets Yang to say she’s sorry for kneecapping Mercury. In fact, she expresses doubt on Yang and does not change her mind about it, believing that the thing she was hiding had something to do with injuring Mercury. We end Episode 8 not with Ruby encountering Mercury, but Hazel.

Episode 9 remains relatively unchanged, as it’s the necessary lynchpin to cause the Fall of Beacon. Really, most of the final act can remain unchanged for the most part, save for some quality of life changes like “how come no one called out Emerald when she was in the middle of the crowd even though they were told that her team went home?” or all those tiny nitpicks that really makes Cinder’s plan fall apart if you think too hard about it.

The most that changes is that Hazel fights Ruby reluctantly. Obviously, he doesn’t want to fight Gretchen’s partner. Cinder would have no idea Ruby’s incompetence led to Gretchen’s death, so Hazel wouldn’t use that to guilt trip Ruby. He does, however, rant about the flawed system that Ozpin has made and it’s clear that this is him talking about how flawed the system is, not Cinder whispering sweet nothings in his ear. He lets Ruby go just as the fight between Pyrrha and Penny ends.

Yeah, this still takes place despite Cinder not knowing, since she lacks her virus for now. Cinder is smart and is able to put two and two together when she sees that Penny is doing a lot of the heavy lifting during her fights. I mean, it was obvious to us that she was a robot from Volume 1, Cinder didn’t need no fancy scroll to tell her “hey, Penny’s a robot.”

I should add that, throughout the tournament, Cinder had been rigging the tournament so that it’d come down to Vale vs. Atlas, using the narrative of the Breach to set the stage. She’s also making sure the losses for Mistral and Vacuo sting so the Grimm get attracted sooner. How is she doing this? Via the backdoor program she had. As I said previously, the virus feigns being dead and can only be reactivated by a backdoor program. However, this isn’t the full extent. Cinder is basically using the program to activate a few nodes in the CCT to rig the randomizer enough so that no one stops and goes “wait, this is fishy”. It doesn’t help that the way the tournament is held, each Kingdom representative is guaranteed to face an opposing Kingdom once per round, so if one Kingdom was really good, they’ll overcrowd the subsequent doubles and finals. Two Kingdoms? Then you essentially guarantee that the rest of the fights can be nothing but Kingdom A vs. Kingdom B.

Penny is killed and this becomes the straw that broke the camel’s back. I also would make it so that her big speech, while imposing and setting the tone for the fall, doesn’t sound like “I’m the big bad evil guy and I’m going to announce my terrorist attack!” Also, Adam can get involved too, saying how humans are so sad over a dead robot, but when it’s a Faunus, no one gives a crap, white guilting the crowd. When the Beacon staff cut the feed, Cinder goes “OMG! CENSORSHIP!” and riles up the crowd that way. Basically, her speech causes fear and panic. The Grimm and White Fang attack, we kick off the Fall of Beacon Arc.

One major change to kick off the finale: Port and Oobleck are killed. It doesn’t have to be shown, but it would be implied as Ozpin notices that he lost contact of the two. Really, this is your chance to get rid of all the characters that won’t make an appearance in later Volumes or wouldn’t really matter. After all, there will be no rest or love. Hell, kill off CFVY while you’re at it. Hammer home that the dark tone is here to stay. Also, the backdoor is the thing Roman puts on that ship and thus reactivates the virus.

Of course, the major change is Adam’s fight with Blake, since they fought before. Blake tries desperately to ask why he’s hurting people, but Adam gives her his response: “Because this world doesn’t reward the kind-hearted people. You should know that after what happened to your father!” This puts Blake in a lot of fear and anxiety, requiring Yang to interfere. The one thing I’ll change from this is that Adam does not one-shot Yang, because that horribly unbalances him in the grand scheme of things. Instead, he relies more on manipulation to put Yang in the absolute worst spot throughout the fight, absorbing the increased blows he got from Yang before letting it all out in his Moonslice, taking off her arm.

The other major thing I’d change is the handling of Pyrrha. The bit where they’re underground changes immensely as Ozpin explicitly instructs Jaune to wait by the door, thus separating him from Pyrrha. Ozpin and Pyrrha go to the pods, but as Pyrrha begins to have second thoughts, Ozpin activates the switch as Pyrrha screams in pain.

Meanwhile, Jaune finds Cinder entering the chamber via a superhero landing (No one’s gonna acknowledge that she managed to follow the group down a longass shaft?) and as Jaune tries to fight Cinder, realizing she’s the one who organized all of this, she tells him “I didn’t cause this… I merely exposed Ozpin for what he truly is… Arrogant and willing do to anything to win.” Jaune pieces together what Cinder could possibly mean and enters the chamber, seeing Pyrrha in pain. Just then, Cinder kills Amber and takes her power.

Ozpin decides to hold Cinder off while Jaune and Pyrrha go to get help. While this will be revealed in Volume 5, it’ll be revealed that Ozpin threw his battle with Cinder so that, not only would he reincarnate quicker, but also to avoid the Council chewing his ass out. This leads to the consequence of Cinder forcing Pyrrha’s hand, however…

Like with the show, Pyrrha fights Cinder by herself since Jaune did enough. We’ll have him try to contact Glynda and the others, but they’re unfortunately busy and it’s this poor communication that causes Jaune to panic call Weiss. The fight proceeds like normal and Pyrrha is killed by Cinder, making her sacrifice seemingly in vain before Ruby, having enough with all this bullshit, Silver Eyes the fuck out of Cinder and the Dragon, turning the latter to stone and Cinder into a cripple.

Ending remains the same, but give a lot more emphasis on Ruby and Yang coping with the new change and the losses of their friends. One day, Jaune comes by and asks Ruby if she and Yang would like to accompany them to Mistral, figuring that Cinder came from there and that they’d be able to find some answers. Ruby, having had enough of moping around, leaves much to her father’s chagrin. Salem’s speech remains the same and we get two stingers, split by Divide and Cold. Divide’s credits would be for the Volume and Cold would be for all the animators who helped out during Volume 2.5 and a tribute to Monty. The first stinger is Qrow following RNJR in bird form, the second is Cinder, literally on the edge of death before the parasite Grimm begins to heal and nurture her. She’s furious that Ruby managed to hurt her and this negative emotion causes a Grimm to stalk her. She tries to sing to it, but her voice gives out a rasp.

Just as the Grimm is about to kill her, it gets killed by an unknown assailant, who just scoffs to Cinder. We don’t know who it is, but the shadow of a scorpion’s tail and the creepy voice pretty much gives those with foresight a good idea who he is: “Poor, poor little girl… Bit off more than you can chew, hmmm?” before cutting to black with him giggling.

DVD Extra

This would basically be an encore of Volume 2.5, where animators that nearly made the cut were invited to animate doubles and finals battles and even have a speculative RWBY vs. JNPR battle for ol’ time’s sake.

And that’s RWBY Volume 3 tweaked. Only two more left to go and they’re the most… interesting ones to tweak. Well, with this isolation, I might as well give a little bit of time to this…

#RWDE #RWBY #Rewrite #RWBY Rewrite

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littlemisssquiggles · 5 years

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Continuing from my last ask, I do like the idea of the final boss not being Salem but Great War II. Like, Salem could be trying to gain power through humans like she did before (To rebel against the gods and as a false god herself). But in a twist, begins her redemption as she starts to understand the importance of life and death. I can even see her finally understanding in a tiny village and quietly passing away, the main characters completely unaware... just, imagine Oz finding that out.

Hey Miki-chan. I’m glad you liked the headcanon of history repeating itself with Great War II and Salem being the partial instigator in that by influencing the people to go after the Relics and essentially the Gods just as how she did in First Remnant.

However the squiggle meister has a much different approach to Salem’s Redemption Arc.

I’ve already shared my ideas on the events that take place after the Fall of Atlas Kingdom and Ruby and Oscar’s abduction and imprisonment by Salem in the Dark Lands.

My thoery is that the second Great War will be led by the Kingdom of Mistral. My theory is that Salem and her forces would use Atlas to spark the flares of Great War II. Up until this point in the story, Atlas has been placed under a negative lens facing heavy public scrutiny with what transpired at the Vytal Festival, according to Caroline Cordovin in RWBY V6.

And it wouldn’t surprise me if what happened Argus with the Leviathan Grimm almost destroying the kingdom due to the stunt Cordovin pulled wouldn’t come back to bite the kingdom in the ass as well. While we all know that our heroes played a role in that, that’s not what the rest of Argus saw.

They didn’t see Cordovin apprehending fugitives who had stolen one of the army’s airships. For the most part, what the public of Argus saw was a complete abuse of power by Caroline Cordovin, marching out into the city with its greatest weapon and announcing arrogantly to the world how much they had forgotten about the, quote, unquote, “Awesome Might of Atlas” and to consider her actions a reminder of how superior Atlas was.

That is what the public heard and you cannot tell me that’s not going to have consequences for Atlas in the eyes of Mistral. Especially if word of what happened in Argus reaches back to the Mistral Council.

At this moment, you can more or less say that Atlas has two strikes against them with Vale and ultimately Mistral too for Argus. And with Tyrian hinting that they’re plotting something between Atlas and Vacuo, things are not looking good. With this thought in mind, my theory is that after Atlas Kingdom falls, with the decent of Remnant’s most influential kingdom, the governing council of Mistral will probably wish to use this opportunity to take control of the other kingdoms.

With Vale still recovering from Beacon’s Fall and with Atlas Kingdom demolished, Mistral Kingdom may wish to appeal to the other kingdoms—proposing that they should be in charge of things considering that, second to Vale, they are the largest kingdom in Remnant.

Somehow I just like the idea of Mistral getting the brainiac idea to impose their government and reign onto the other kingdoms believing them to be weaker than them, especially now that Atlas is no longer the most influential kingdom and therefore no longer a threat with their fall. I really dig this idea of Mistral being the kingdom to cast the first stone of war. As a matter of fact, I think there is a huge possibility of this becoming canon since it ties into my hunch of Remnant’s history repeating itself.

In the World of Remnant episode on the Great War, it was mentioned that it was Mistral who more or less kick-started the first Great War when they’re settlers attempted to colonize a section of Solitas that Vale has also planned on colonizing. And even though the King of Vale was willing to compromise and share the territory with Mistral, that didn’t stop what became the first fight of the Great War. Vale against Mistral with Mantle coming to Mistral’s aid. For better clarity, I went back and rewatched the World of Remnant: The Great War and this is what was said:

“…The Great War. What a terrible name for such a horrible time in history. Though the war itself lasted around ten years, the century leading up to it was filled with so much tension, you might as well lump em together. And most of that tension was coming from Mistral.”

Territories rich with resources and safe from Grimm have always been in high demand. But the Emperor of Mistral had managed to conquer nearly all that Anima had to offer, thanks in part to an unlikely friend: Mantle. The two kingdoms had formed an alliance. Mistral provided the small kingdom with goods unavailable in the frozen tundra. In return, Mantle introduced technological innovation as well as guidance in the settlement of Anima’s cold northern territory. It was good until it wasn’t.

An incident in Mantle led to a strange and unexpected decree. The abolishment of the arts and repression of self-expression. The People of Mantle had come to believe that they would be much safer from the Grimm if they could simply keep the emotions of the masses in check. Given Mistral’s strong artistic culture, many assumed it would be the end of their alliance. But they were wrong. Mistral complied; selectively. Enforcing Mantle’s wishes only in the outer territories, allowing the centralized powers to continue to live as they pleased. If you haven’t caught on yet. Mistral’s full of jerks.

The People of Vale had a problem with this. Well they had a problem with a lot of things Mistral and Mantle have been up to. Treatment of their citizens, use of slave labour and their constant insistence that their way of lifewas what was best for everyone…”

‘…Their constant insistence that their way of life is what was best for everyone…’

It wouldn’t surprise me one bit if for a second time, Mistral and Mantle decide to come together to colonize the other kingdoms under their reign. Especially since Atlas is presumably destined to fall. And given that Atlas more or less abandoned Mantle and its people behind in the cold in poor conditions, what’s stopping Mantle from sort of enacting its revenge on Atlas (and essentially the rest of Remnant) by joining forces with Mistral again to jumpstart another Great War. That’s my theory.

Following the Fall of Atlas, Mistral would appeal to the other kingdoms thatperhaps they should rule over everyone. Mantle will of course side with themas expected however Vale and Vacuo will be against it. But that doesn’t stopMistral from trying to take over and thus…another war begins.

I really think it would be interesting if this happened. A Second Great War in Remnant with our heroes being around to witness the events of it was something that’s been foreshadowed as early as V2. It was hinted into Ironwood’s statement to Oz.

Ironwood: Do you really think your children can win a war?Ozpin: I pray that they’d never have to.

Or…something along the lines. Another reason why I think it would be fascinating for our young heroes to be part of another Great War is because, during the last war, there was a lot of tension and terror while the kingdoms were fighting which led to many civilizations and people on the outside being endangered by the rising Grimm activity.

I think this sort of thing could ultimately be used as a way for Oscar to reunite with to his family. Think about it. If Mistral is off trying to colonize the other kingdoms with its best warriors off to fight in the war, this would leave the outer villages and territories more vulnerable to the Grimm.

This is inclusive of the part of the kingdom where Oscar is from. Let’s say, by the time Great War II is in full swing, about one to two years has passed. So let’s say, Oscar is 17 years old at the time of the Great War II. Ruby is 19 and everyone else is 21 years old.

At this point, perhaps the CCT Tower is back online and it is during this time, our heroes are constantly receiving distressed signals from all over from people in desperate need of help. Let’s say, our heroes, RWBY and JNPR are tasked with being the ones to go out into the field via airships provided by the Atlesian Military to help villages who are being flooded by Grimm.

But at some point, there is a distress signal from Anima near Mistral Kingdom…where Oscar’s home town. Believing that his family might be in danger, Oscar wants to return to Mistral but is stopped. Let’s say, given the fact that Mistral is the kingdom that is trying to take over everybody, not everyone was willing to go to Anima and defend its people.

So it boils down to Oscar having to beg to protect the people of Anima since the lives of the innocent shouldn’t be allowed to pay for the actions of its leaders.

Unfortunately, the Vale Council refuses to deploy their huntsmen to Anima since it’s enemy territory. So it pretty much ends up with JNPR and RWBY going solo, behind the Vale Council’s back, to provide aid to Oscar’s family and anyone else in Anima who are being victimized by the Grimm during the War.

So Oscar’s family and any other Anima refugees would be taken to Vale as a safe haven. I like this since it could provide an interesting way for Ruby and Oscar’s family to meet each other. Sure it’d be under the weirdest circumstances but it would be a cool way for the two families to meet especially since my Rosegardening Pinehead theory is that Ruby and Oscar would officially become a couple after the standalone Dark Doman Arc. But y’know, this is all just my theories.

Now to actually discuss Salem and her part in Great War II. Similar to how she manipulated the original Monarchs of First Remnant into staging a coup against the Gods, my theory is that Salem would manipulate the rulers of Mistral and Mantle into becoming her newest pawns. Since Mistral and Mantle desire reign over all Four Kingdoms, I can see Salem using this to her advantage. Despite Salem being cleansed of her darkness with her connection to the Grimm Pools now permanently severed (via my theory of Ruby’s Silver Eyes and Oscar’s Magic) this doesn’t mean she still wasn’t immortal.

Salem will only be reverted back to her original form and thus, would still have her curse and magical powers. In a similar manner to how she was able to influence the original Monarchs with her curse as leverage, I can see Salem doing the same thing with the Rulers of Mistral and Mantle.

Imagine Salem promising the Rulers of Mistral the same kind of power as hers; immortality and magic, if they helped her gather all the Relics to summon the Gods.

I know you wish for Salem to have some form of redemption and while I liked your idea; speaking for myself here, I can only picture Salem finally realizing the error of her ways through being overthrown—y’know coming face to face with adversary far more powerful and intimidating that her. Kind of like Salem coming face to face with herself or someone far worse than she was.

This is why I liked the concept of Cinder Fall becoming the Red Queen; taking over from where Salem left off and gaining full control of the Grimm by becoming the world’s first Grimmoire—human and Grimm hybrid.

Salem, to me, is a very tough nut to crack. I can’t wrap my head around her just going to a tiny village, going through her redemption and then peacefully passingaway like that with the main cast being oblivious to it. Nah son. I mean it’s a fitting end but there’s needs to be something before we get to that climax.

This is how I pictured Salem’s path to redemption. After being defeated by Ruby and Oscar, even in her purified state, Salem still wants revenge. She was still angry. Still vengeful against the Gods. So because of this, she turned back to her old ways. Since she could no longer control the Grimm (since Ruby and Oscar relinquished all the Grimm Pools and the Land of Darkness), Salem sought out to build herself a new army. So she decides to target the Rulers of Mistral and Mantle who were trying to conquer Vale, Vacuo and the remnants of Atlas kingdom. Salem manages to forge an alliance with these kingdoms and for a while, it seemed like Salem’s plan was going to work.

But in a twist, it turns out that the Rulers of Mistral and Mantle were using Salem. As it turns out, someone else has already gotten to the Rulers beforeSalem and had them under her full control. As it turns out, Cinder reveals herselfas the Red Queen.

Not only was she the new master of the Grimm but she also had influence over two of Remnant’s most powerful armies who had sworn their loyalty to her and pretty soon, the rest of Remnant will bow to Cinder Fall.

Already, in the span of such a short time, Cinder had achieved more than Salem ever did in the centuries she has lived. All that was left was for her to gather the Relics and summon the Gods herself to achieve something else Salem was unable to do—kill the Gods.

Long story short, Cinder had played Salem and all Salem could do was stare back at the monster she had created. Basically imagine Cinder doing to Salem what Salem did to the Gods back in First Remnant. Just as how Salem, a creation of the Brother Gods, turned their own people against them—Cinder, a creation of Salem (technically) would turn all of Salem’s armies (human as well as Grimm) against her.

This is the karma that I believe could be what finally sets Salem in motion towards her redemption. Let’s say…from here, Cinder sets her army on Salem. At first, Salem retorts pompously knowing fully well that she can’t die. But to Salem’s horror, Cinder was fully prepared for that. She knows Salem couldn’t be killed. Killing Salem wasn’t Cinder’s plan. She didn’t want her dead. She wanted her power. So let’s say…Red Queen Cinder manages to overpower Salem and steal her magic from her in the same way she tried stealing the Maiden magic from Raven.

After draining Salem of all of her magic, Salem is left completely powerless. The only thing left to protect her was her immortality curse. She didn’t even have the power to defend herself anymore.

After that, Cinder left her loyal minions of Mantle and Mistral to do whatever they pleased to Salem. Humiliate her. Torture her to no end. Make her one of their many slaves. It mattered naught to Cinder. She already had what she desired so Salem was no longer of use to her.

Let’s say…after pilfering all of Salem’s magic, Cinder now had to ability to create the Grimm Pools? Maybe. I’m still wondering if that’s a possibility. I mean it might be since my theory is that Ruby and Oscar can destroy Grimm Pools with magic. So for the sake of this headcanon, let’s say Cinder can create a Grimm Pool now that she has Salem’s magic. It’s not strong enough to create one as massive as what the God of Darkness could achieve, but it was enough for Cinder to make one potent enough to grow her Grimm Army.

Let’s say…our heroes get wind of what went down with Cinder. Let’s say, despite gaining Salem’s magic, Cinder, being the megalomaniac that she was still wanted more power. My thing is that no matter how powerful Cinder becomes, her biggest crutch will always be her insatiable hunger for power and that hunger of hers will always be her downfall.

Basically what I’m trying to voice here is that at some point, our heroes will learn that Cinder has now become the biggest threat to Remnant with Mantle and Mistral under her reign; working to conquer Vale and Vacuo while simultaneously searching for the remaining Maidens and Relics. My theory is that, in her thirst for power, Cinder would work to achieve what Salem failed to achieve—gather all the Relics and defeat the Gods.

My guess is that Cinder would grow so power-hungry that she’d even dare to challenge the Gods—repeat the very same mistake that Salem did at the cost of mankind a second time.

Long story short, at some point, our heroes end up liberating a village that had been claimed by Mistral and Mantle, under Cinder’s liege. While freeing all the captives, the heroes discover Salem who was among the prisoners.

This is the first time Oscar has seen Salem since she had dared to join forces with Mantle and Mistral to take down the Gods again. Now, there she was beaten and broken—practically spitting at Oscar’s feet screaming at him to let her die or something like that. However, Oscar surprises Salem by doing the opposite.

Even after everything she had done to him in many lifetimes. Even after what she did to him in this current lifetime by trying to turn his own love against him. Even after what she did to Ruby.

The pain she caused them both. Despite everything she had put him through, Oscar still showed Salem mercy and saved her. Just like Ozma did years ago. Oscar would still show Salem kindness. Not out of pity. But because it was the righteous thing to do.

So against her will, Salem is saved by Oscar of all people and taken to safety in Vale with all the other original captives. After that, Salem is placed to live with the captives. Now that she was powerless without her magic, Salem, for the first time ever, was completely vulnerable.She was now no different than a regular human. Sure she still had her immortality but what has that done for her other than force her to feel pain over and over again.

Salem had officially been knocked down. No longer the intimidating figure she once was. No longer was she a goddess or a master of anything. She was now just a woman, being forced to live in a world that no longer had a place for her.

But unbeknownst to Salem, a new place would be made for her. As I mentioned, after being saved, Salem would be placed to live in a small sanctuary in Vale with others like her who were once captives of Mistral and Mantle during their colonization.

Let’s say…during their pillaging throughout the remaining kingdoms, Mistral and Mantle colonized local villages forcing them to adhere to their rules until huntsmen and soldiers from Vale and Vacuo came to their aid to take them to safe havens.

So Salem would live with these people. Eat with these people. Work alongside these people as they did their best to forge a new home for themselves in Vale while their real homes were claimed in the destruction brought on by the War. A war that, Salem contributed towards sparking. It is here, amongst these people where Salem could finally learn the error of her ways.

After all, she was now no different than them. Powerless. In need of protection. In need of a second chance at life. Or just a place to go since she had no idea what to do with herself now that she had been made a victim by Cinder and her forces, just like these people. The only difference between these people and Salem is that…she was immortal. Unlike her, these people—these men, women and children—their lives were feeble compared to Salem’s.

And despite that, they still continued to persevere. To make the best of what they had with the short life that they had. To lean on each other and work together. And what was more surprising is that these people welcomed Salem into their colony. Not as someone to lead them. Not as some goddess to bow down to to.

But as an ally in their little family. A member of their village. Even after all she had done to their kind over the years, these people would still accept her. Why? What had she done to deserve it? And more importantly, why was Salem finding herself appreciating the comfort these people brought her?

Basically from here, Salem would come to care for these people she was placed with and begin to value their lives over her own. Perhaps, during her stay with these people, Salem might even wind up adopting a small child—a little girl left orphaned by the Great War.

Perhaps this girl would remind Salem of her youngest daughter from her marriage with Ozma.

Oh! Or perhaps, Salem would end up becoming some kind of den-mother to a group of orphan children left without their parents because of the Great War II. So Salem would look after these children as if they were her own. Maybe even come to love them.

To me, I can’t see Salem just passing away during the Great War without the heroes knowing. For me, I want Salem to be alive to see firsthand what she helped cause.

I want her to even become a victim of her own creations of destruction so that she can finally learn her lesson. Let Salem fall from grace and live among the people she once thought worthless.

Let her become one of them and learn to cherish the lives of the ones she came into close contact with. Let her fight to protect them so that when the Gods are brought back, instead of finding the same Salem who once gathered humanity against them or even dared to trick them into bringing back her loved one out of her own selfish desires, instead of finding her, they would find this new person praying to them to protect the lives of these people she had grown to care for.

After that, Salem will be allowed to rest. Perhaps she will end up dying in a village.

I can picture it being a thing where after the Gods lifted her immortality, Salem is finally allowed to grow old. Perhaps she may even be allowed to live one last life on Remnant where she’d get to take care of the orphan children she had cared for during the Great War.

Perhaps Salem will be allowed to live long enough to see these kids grow up. Perhaps that’s the deal she makes with the Gods. At least let her live long enough to see her children grow up well and then she’ll die. In that time, Salem would become someone who would take in stray children. Gave them a haven to call home. She’d basically live a humble life until all her kids finally grow up and after that, she would be able to pass away peacefully in her sleep surrounded by all the children she had helped raised. Surrounded by loved ones.

Perhaps Oscar would even be invited back to say his goodbyes to Salem. Who knows? Just spit-balling here mostly.

I know not a lot of folks like the sound of Salem being redeemed. However, this idea could work. Maybe. Or…something like that. That’s my hunch for the most part.

Hope this answers you Miki-chan o/

~LittleMissSquiggles (2019)

#miki-13 #squiggles answers #oscar pine #cinder fall #rwby salem #rwby theories #squiggles answers: rwby

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ganymedesclock · 5 years

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So you said in an earlier post that you’d been thinking of a hypothetical Sendak reform arc. Could you elaborate on that?

So this is one thing that’s actually sort of still a theory.

Simply: I think Sendak and Lotor are half-siblings, with Lotor the elder of the two. We’re told pretty clearly Zarkon had no other partners before Honerva; Alfor remarks that he’s astonished at the idea that Zarkon would ever marry, and the way Zarkon acts around Honerva initially would seem to make it pretty clear that he’s not exactly done this romantic song and dance before.

However, Sendak is significantly implicated with the royal family both in the main universe and in the “happy family” universe we see in late s8.

In the main universe, while it’s subtle, s4e3 has some very meaning-laden exchange between Lotor and Zarkon about how Zarkon never personally trained Lotor. Lotor is basically saying he only fails because he was not taught, which we know on Lotor’s side he’s setting up to be rejected by Zarkon- so he’s asking for something he’s confident Zarkon will never give him.

This is noteworthy because we only hear that Zarkon personally trained one person: Sendak. We in fact literally see Zarkon training Sendak in the “happy family” universe- and if you look at what that version of Sendak is wearing?

It’s the exact same red armor with gold accents that Zarkon and only Zarkon wears. Not explicitly confirmed to be lordly armor, but, that’s still very significant that we see Sendak bedecked in Zarkon’s colors.

In the main universe, of course, that’s not the case, however, also in the main universe, when Haggar chooses someone to back instead of Lotor for the throne, she goes to Sendak. Furthermore, when Pidge and Allura question hologram Sendak on the Atlas, Sendak asserts that he comes from an “unquestionably galra lineage” but does not clarify who his parents are.

There’s also the fact that when Sendak does arrive to the Kral Zera, he’s dismissed specifically for having vanished when Zarkon needs him. This is significant first because it implies that while Zarkon cut Sendak preferential treatment in the form of personal training, that’s not reinforced by the imperial hierarchy. Somehow, Sendak caught Zarkon’s eye in a way that Zarkon was implicitly involved with Sendak’s education, possibly even from a very young age (s1e9, Sendak implies that he sees himself as having no identity outside of serving Zarkon which are the words of an indoctrinated person), but without Sendak having really climbed the ranks or received positive acknowledgement from any of the imperial brass.

However, Janka, who is stated to be more cautious and calculating of the potential contenders, definitely seems to think Sendak’s trouble- to the point that when he smugly dismissed Gnov a second ago, once Sendak turns up he’s proposing alliances, and then, when Sendak has him cornered, Janka tries to barter with him.

The other significant side of why Sendak is dismissed at the Kral Zera is that it mirrors something Throk said about Lotor in s3e1- where the first criticism Throk voices of Lotor is “Why is he not at his father’s bedside?” It implies that within the empire there’s a cultural attitude that children should serve their father, and if they don’t, that’s dishonorable or untrustworthy of them.

And Zarkon is considered beautiful enough his likeness is put on posters, so while Honerva’s disoriented and beset with amnesia (or, in the happy family universe, died) it’s quite possible that Zarkon took another consort, and that consort might have produced Sendak.

But if Zarkon never acknowledges Sendak as his heir, or favors him with the title of prince, that’s going to create an interesting issue. It would explain why Zarkon would spend so much time training Sendak, and why Janka would consider him a threat, but Ranveig would dismiss him.

Also during the Kral Zera- Sendak and Lotor talk rather personally to each other. The implication is some history there, and, moreover…

The happy family universe seems to tell us something else. That Zarkon and Honerva seem to have set Lotor and Sendak against each other.

While Lotor and Sendak don’t seem super close in the “Happy Family” universe, it still stands that this idealized depiction of the galra royal family has both of them. Presumably, in that universe, Sendak would be acknowledged as the younger prince because Zarkon would have likely remarried in the wake of Honerva’s death.

And during the Kral Zera, Lotor seems specifically trying to warn Sendak. There’s a lot less of the scorn he addresses Zarkon with when he accuses Zarkon of being Honerva’s puppet in s5e2; rather, there seems to be this undercurrent of “don’t you see what she’s doing to you?”

So that creates this interesting thread, if that theory’s true (and since canon’s done and both Lotor and Sendak are dead, I figure you can basically choose to take it just on the grounds that it makes things a lot more interesting if it is true) It would imply Sendak’s the Azula to Lotor’s Zuko. Two abused children whose paths diverged a long time ago.

But I was aware a big reason I started to feel really bad for Sendak is, on top of all of the implications he was heavily indoctrinated and that, again, in s1e9 he earnestly brags about not having any purpose in life outside of the empire, talking up how being surgically taken apart and cybernetically augmented made him ‘better’ in his own eyes- his ultimate death is basically hollow. It’s bereft of even the spite that led him to first attack Earth- it’s just an empty repetition of the values he was raised with.

Sendak is ultimately a deconstruction of the Red Paladin role, as much as Zarkon- an abusive tyrant- is a deconstruction of the Black Paladin role. Sendak’s loyalty is manipulated. It’s exploited. While he is clearly an adult with a lot of autonomy, he’s an adult that grew from heavily indoctrinated roots. As he says himself, he basically can’t imagine a life outside of the empire, outside of his role, outside of being what he is.

And the way Lotor talks to him at the Kral Zera really makes me think that you could have built something very interesting in Lotor who wasn’t derailed away from the heroes at the end of s6… trying to reach Sendak. Trying to actually help him. Because frankly, it’s possible they grew up together- it’s possible they were even friends at some point. They could have been friends even as late as the colony, and Ven’Tar, with the rift only really happening in full with Lotor’s exile. Because we see at that point Lotor had no real intention of breaking with the empire, he wanted to make it better and he wanted Zarkon’s approval.

There’s still a lot Sendak would need to answer for, and, ultimately, it would have to be Sendak finding a reason to want to change, but, so much of his unwavering faith in the empire seems to be born entirely out of isolation and indoctrination. He’s never had any other path, and, especially if he was considered illegitimate as an heir, he’d start to resent Lotor for being formally acknowledged as a prince when not only is Lotor in exile and resenting Zarkon, but, bigoted voices within the empire would be quick to insist Sendak, as a pure galra, would be “worthier” than his Altean half-brother.

#voltron legendary defender #vld #Sendak #Lotor #season 8 #readmore #sepublic

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forestwater87 · 5 years

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Odd question. If you were doing a wing fic (shorthand: everyone has some kind of wings on their back; up to you if they're always out or if they can be banished and summoned at will) for Camp Camp, what kind of wings would the cast have?

Oooh I love wing fics! Hmmm, let’s see . . .

David’s would be a little small for his age/size, and he’d probably be kind of embarrassed about that. He can still fly just fine with them -- which he’d say, defensively, if anyone pointed them out -- and they’re very fluffy, white, with little speckles of green flecked throughout.

Now I know most wing fics stick with feathered wings, but it did occur to me that some sort of insectlike wings -- all delicate-looking and iridescent like the surface of a bubble -- would also suit him very well. They’d be a bit more natural and forest-y, but would still have that element of embarrassment and shyness (he was probably called “fairy” a lot growing up, and it’d be a sore spot for him).

That being said, the idea of David having massive wings was suggested by @ciphernetics, and I must admit that the idea of him either wrapping them around people to protect or comfort them is super cute. Also in a protective moment he could like fwoosh, out they come to shield the campers and it’d be badass. It’s not my preferred hc for him, but there are some lovely ways to play with it.

Gwen’s would be . . . serviceable. Dull, easily overlooked, probably some shade of gray or that kind of dun mousy brown that looks greyish in the right light, bigger than David’s but neither unusually large or small, not especially fluffy but not kind of molted the way some sick people’s are . . . they’re just sort of there. (She was probably nicknamed Pigeon by a lot of people, both as an affectionate term and a derogatory one. And like pigeons’ wings, there are little patches of color among her wings that are hard to see unless you’re looking for them it’s a metaphor get it? aren’t I clever ohoho)

Campbell’s are humongous. The biggest wings ever. He is a mountain of a man, with massive pure-white wings. Some people are convinced he genetically modified them somehow, and they do have this uncanny radioactive glow in the dark but don’t worry about that, it’s perfectly natural and not at all suspicious!

The fun thing about this is that they can get increasingly bedraggled as Season 3 progresses, until they’re drooping and muddy.

Quartermaster has bat wings. I don’t give a fuck if literally every other character has angel wings, QM’s are bats and that’s just the way it has to be.

I like the idea of the campers having small wings that can fit under their clothes, because they haven’t really grown in yet. I imagine maybe Nurf might be an exception, since he seems to be either older or just bigger than the other campers, but for the most part those kiddos look just like their normal selves. That being said, a few ideas of what they might look like grown up:

Max -- black, maybe a little big for his age, like a crow or raven’s wings. When he gets annoyed they puff up and slip out of his hoodie, and it’s a pain to put them back in which annoys him even more and gets them more puffy and hard to stuff back . . . it’s a constant struggle. Pity the poor kid.

Neil -- I’m torn between going with his hair color and giving him some hawklike brown-and-white wings, which I think would look nice with his coloring, and just going hog-wild and giving him wings like a bluebird because of his eyes. I think the latter would be too showy and embarrass him, but there’s something kinda cute about that too. His wings would be like his dad: impossible to ignore and much louder and more obnoxious (in his POV) than they need to be.

Nikki -- big and flecked with golden-orange. Of all the characters I think hers would have the most modifications, because as a kid/young adult she wasn’t careful with them and got them all torn up -- maybe to the point where she can’t even fly with them. But she has Neil and he’s a smart cookie, so I like to think of her wings having a vaguely-steampunk element of mechanisms and patches keeping them together.

Harrison -- white or a very light gray, like a dove’s. He paints the tips gold when he’s older as part of his illusionist costume.

Nerris -- I’m just thinking pure eastern bluebird, orange at the base and then exploding into brilliant blue. I think she’d love how flashy they are.

Ered -- Somehow I want her to have dragon wings. I have no idea why, or how, but I think it’d be extremely cool, and Ered is nothing if not cool. Especially if they’re really rare, almost unheard of, and she’s put a lot of work into transforming herself from the tomboyish freak with the demon wings and gay dads into something to be envious of. Besides, it’s easier to do sick stunts without having to worry about your feathers getting caught on stuff.

Nurf -- All right, I wanna get emo for a moment and say that his wings have been hacked either partly or entirely off by the time he’s an adult. We know he’s been abused in canon, and I think that people like that would go for the easiest target to hurt you, and that target is probably the delicate feathered things sticking out of your back. Bonus points if they’re somehow kind of girly, which coincides with his more sensitive nature and how he initially wanted to do ballet as a kid (especially since I don’t think that was well-received by his family). So, like . . . what remains are very fluffy and sweet-looking, maybe pink or pale yellow and orange or something, but they’re either little stubs he covers up all the time or they’ve got big chunks missing out of them but who’s gonna point that out to the huge guy with a pissed-off expression?

Preston -- Rainbow, like the most extravagant bird of paradise. Does he paint them himself, or are they as natural as he claims?

Dolph -- Probably something very average and serviceable, in the brown/gray/white family, but they’re always speckled with paint because he’s not very careful with them and especially the long feathers at the bottom trail along the ground while he’s painting, or get stuck to his art if he turns around too suddenly.

Space Kid -- I’m thinking of a duck, for some reason. Partly because they’re aquatic and I just connect the ocean and space for some reason, partly because they’re very ordinary and that’s kind of how SK rolls, and partly because ducks can just flap for insane distances without getting tired (thank you Animorphs!). Space Kid is like that, I think -- very diligent, keeps his head down and gets things done, not very bright but he works so hard it makes up for a lot, and that’s why he’s going to be an astronaut someday. Mallards have those pretty green feathers, too, and I think those would look nice with Space Kid’s eyes.

Jasper -- Peacock. Obviously. He is the most garishly-dressed person in the show and his wings would match. Not that you’ll ever know, because he never gets to grow up and have real wings :(

So those are the mains! As for some of the less-important characters, I don’t really have too many interesting ideas, but a few throwaway ones:

The Flower Scouts all have pink wings, either feathers or bug/fairy ones. I think maybe Tabii has a chunk missing from one of hers, from a fight or something, and the other girls made a patch so no one can tell and she can fly properly. Erin’s might be just slightly different colors -- one with an orangey tint, one with a blue.

A fun thing about bug wings is they could buzz when the girls are angry. So Sasha’s are basically always going, poor thing.

The Woodscouts probably have their wings bound, clipped, and constantly ready for combat flying. I’m thinking, like, the military-haircut version of wings.

Daniel’s . . . I mean, I don’t care about Daniel because he’s trash, but I do love the idea that they’re not naturally white and he dyes them. It’s my favorite Daniel hc and I need it to appear in every AU.

So that about covers it!

EXCEPT

Then I was talking with Ciphernetics about wing AUs, and I mentioned that in some wing fics (namely the awesome one by setepenre-set, though there are probably others) the wings’ size are based on how loved someone is. Which led to the below cuteness. Warning: shameless Gwenvid and Makkiel ahead, along with me insisting that Cameron Campbell isn’t the worst person in the entire world because I’m love him

Ciphernetics: Max’s wings growing during camp!Max voice: who the FUCK is loving me I specifically requested the opposite of thisDavid: You can even fit them in your hoodie anymore awwwwMax, struggling to pull it on over his wings: the hell I can't

Forestwater:(what if they come in the color of the person who loves you's hair)(so at first it's just this line of red that he knows is fucking David, goddamnit and then all of a sudden start sprouting these mint green and brown ones and my ship takes off)

Ciphernetics: Max, disgusted, throwing an auburn feather at David: get LOSTMax, looking over his shoulder in the mirror at the brown ones gathering at the tips and the mint ones scattered chaotically throughout: huh

Forestwater:Oh no what about when Nikki and Neil's start getting flecked with black, small and easily tugged out like they're ashamed of being there

Ciphernetics: The small really curly little feathery down that like to hide under other feathers(Gwen's had auburn in her wings since almost the first summer but lately it's started to overpower the rest of the colours. Not completely, it's just... Noticeable how much of it is the same colour now.)(She knew David loved people quickly and easily, it's just suddenly a lot more)(or she just wasn't paying attention)

Forestwater:What on earth would David's reaction be to suddenly finding some of Gwen's?I like the idea of her feathers being two-toned

Ciphernetics: I'd love if he's had a very small, slowly growing patch since they met (just a handful more each summer) but some event happens and suddenly there's a lotOh absolutely two tonedHey how about some angst;David's been waiting his whole life for Campbell's hair colourToday at 9:32 AMHe'd never say it but Campbell makes so many throwaway jokes about David being the son he never wanted but it rings a little hollow when there's not when one little brown/grey feather

Forestwater:until the end of season 3 when there's like . . . twoLISTEN I NEED MY TRASH GRANDPA

So that’s just a little bit of extra silliness for added angst/romance/fluff.

Hope this answer isn’t too long, but I was having fun.

#campcamp #camp camp roosterteeth #cc david #cc gwen #cc campbell #cc max #cc nikki #cc neil #cc ered #cc nurf #i'm not doing all the campers i don't have the strength #those are the ones with the most 'backstory' anyway #gwenvid #makkiel #wings au #ask forest #libraryadia

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