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callmerainman · 3 months

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Alastor with a pure hearted s/o

a/n I'm fully aware that Alastor is aroace. My scenarios are meant to be interpreted as a deep, unconditional love, not necessarily romantic. I'm not aroace but I'm all for educating myself, so please if something's off let me (gently) know. Hope you enjoy :)

TW! canon typical violence

being a twisted person is not a requirement to reincarnate in Hell. Sins depend on religion, culture, societal norms. You were more of a victim, in fact.

you never got used to being in Hell. Surviving not only the Extermination but also the inhabitants becomes harder and harder every year.

it's kill or be killed, but you just can't bring yourself to do any harm to anyone, even if it means risking your own life.

as soon as you hear about princess Charlie Morningstar's new hotel for souls who want a second chance, your bags are PACKED

it's not like you really need redemption, you are pure hearted already. it's more a matter of understanding the reasons why you ended in Hell and coming to terms with them. maybe then the gates of Heaven would open for you. it's also a safer place for you to be.

Charlie welcomes you excitedly; Angel Dust, Husk and Vaggie aren't that friendly at first since your personalities don't match, but they eventually grow fond of you

and then there's, well...the Radio Demon.

you never met an Overlord before, and Alastor was supposed to be gone for years. But his presence wasn't frightening. A big smile spread across his face, he welcomed you like a gentleman.

you heard stories about his lifestyle and even previous murderous acts as a human, but for some reason you just can't bring yourself to fear him.

at first you were kinda pathetic to him. so naive, out of touch with the evils of Hell. he didn't dislike you. just thought your life was so easy to throw away in a society like that and that you wouldn't last long.

it seems like you two don't have much to share. he just wanders in his den, while you spend time in your room. you greet each other and have small talks, but nothing more than that. that's until he hears jazz music play behind your door.

he mentions it during dinner, and you start talking about your interest in 30s jazz music, especially the one of the Roaring 20s. you come from a later era, but you're very much cultured about jazz and its forms and that's enough for Alastor to develop an interest in you.

he has so many jazz artists recommendations, and you share some of your favourite pieces with him through your gramophone.

without even noticing, Alastor starts spending hours in your room just listening to music. some time even practicing swing dancing. and talking about jazz culture all around the world, and entertainment in general. he has many fun facts about the history of radio too!

the others at the hotel notice your growing bond and low-key support it, in their own, weird way. Angel Dust is especially convinced that you two are hooking up, as Husk not-so-kindly explains that it's more likely for Alastor to ascend to Heaven than express interest in sex.

you would start to open yourself up a bit to the Radio Demon. he doesn't understand why, since it didn't ask or never showed much empathy. but he just can't bring himself to tell you to stop. he wants to listen.

you manage to make him talk about some glimpses of his own life and thoughts. you knew that he was the complete opposite of you. incline to Evil, an enjoyer of all things that made your stomach clench. but he's still the one person who spends hours with you just listening to both jazz and your fears.

one day, Alastor decided that in no way you are walking around the city without him. it's just too dangerous for you. he tries to teach you how to use weapons and demonic powers to defend yourself but he doesn't feel like you can make it into Hell by yourself.

you like strolling through the streets with him, arms intertwined, chatting and laughing even if demons around you are shitting their pants just by seeing the Overlord walking around.

but one day, Alastor can't find you.

you're not in your room, or in the Hotel hall. No one saw you that morning. He starts to feel something he never felt in his life: fear.

he darts out the Hotel, trying to find you. that's when he sees you just a few streets away.

a group of animal-like demons is encircling you. you are on your knees, arms over your head to protect yourself. A lion-demon is holding a knife over you and your arms are covered in cuts. you hold something close to your stomach.

that's when Alastor realized that he had feelings for you.

when he threw himself between you and the demons attacking you.

it's the first time you see Alastor without a smile. his teeth are gritted, face full of unprecedented violence and will to kill, breathing heavily in and out in a sort of animalistic way, but there's no trace of his characteristic smile you love.

his body starts to morph into his full demon form. his horns grow exponentially, his body too as it hovers menacingly on top of your aggressors as they start to feel a pure fear they never felt before.

in a matter of a second, they are gone. Alastor has always been a calculated, elegant killer, but this time he only felt a raw, ferocious instinct to kill.

as he's done, he turns around towards you. he doesn't want to, but he snaps.

"W̶̞̐H̷̻͒Y̷̰̅ ̶̠͛D̸͕́I̸͔̍D̴̿͜ ̷̯̇Y̶̭͌Ỏ̴̬U̵̖̍ ̷̛͎Ģ̷̕O̸̩͑ ̷̹̈́O̶̮͆U̸͍̇T̴̙͆ ̷̧̀W̴͓̅I̷̞͑T̸̗͒H̴̹͒O̴̺̓Ṷ̵̂T̵̺̚ ̵̢́M̴̜̅E̶̬̋?̸̻͋!̸̦͂"

you flinch, you never saw Alastor lose his composure. he was always so calm and collected. his voice was static, choppy.

the tears that were cornering your eyes start streaming down your face "I-I..."

"Ţ̶̈Ḧ̴͙́Ė̵̩Ỳ̷̳ ̷̳̒Ã̸̡L̷̛͚M̶͇̚O̸͈̔S̴̜̎T̸͚̊ ̷̤͝K̷͊͜I̵̺͝L̵͚̎L̴̤̆Ẽ̴͖D̶͍̈́ ̵̻͝Y̵̰̑O̸̜͘Ù̶͍!̵̻͝ ̸͓̾D̴̯͒O̶̅͜Ṉ̶̌'̷̹͒T̵͎͋ ̶̺́Y̴̹͂O̶͍̅U̴̘͌ ̵̘̾Û̷̪N̸̩̊D̵͎̋Ȅ̴͜R̵̮͂S̸̰̄T̸̝̅A̵͓͘N̷̩͂Ḏ̴̀?̵̗̍!̸̭̎"

suddenly, your bleeding arms fall from your head. you expose what you've been protecting all along.

a vinyl, a really old record from Alastor's favourite jazz artist. a rare find.

"I-I know but...tomorrow it's your death anniversary and I wanted to give this to you...as a surprise. I'm sorry"

Alastor's face immediately softens. Eyebrows raised, smile still not seen. He's just surprised and...moved.

He doesn't say anything, he just picks you up in his arms and takes you back to the Hotel where he bandages your arms.

Feeling guilty for putting yourself in danger, you ask Alastor to come to your room in order to apologize to him.

As he closes the door behind him, he says that there's no need to apologize.

"I'm...glad that you are still in your room. Listening to jazz, alive"

words didn't come easy, but he did feel the need to say it. you smile at him.

you propose to put his gift on the gramophone and so you do. music starts to flow between the small space you shared with the Radio Demon.

that's when you and Alastor start slow dancing. his arms around your waist, yours encircling his neck. his smile is back, but soft and...almost loving.

with his silent agreement, you reach for his cheek and graze it.

"Thank you for saving me, Alastor. Even if you are everything I distance myself from in this life...I'm glad you are the person that you are with me. In my next life, I'll make sure to be a sinner again if it means dancing with you like this"

Alastor now understands his feelings. It's something deeper than care. It's love. But not the same love you reserve to a friend and not even romantic. It's something deeper, more visceral.

He doesn't answer, just closes his eyes and leans in to press his forehead against yours.

you later fall asleep on your bed to the quiet sound of the gramophone playing, hands intertwined on Alastor's chest.

#alastor #alastor the radio demon #radio demon #hazbin hotel #vivziepop #alastor x reader #alastor x reader headcanons #alastor hazbin hotel #alastor fanfiction #writers on tumblr #headcanons #hazbin hotel fanfiction

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alastors-antlers · 3 months

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Why Alastor is good aroace rep after all, written by an aroace

Hello all! I just want to start off this post by saying that I'm one person who definitely doesn't speak for all aroaces, but I wanted to make a post on this anyway, and maybe some folk would be interested in hearing out another perspective?

I'm not really caught up on everything that's been said over the course of HH's creation - only more recent interviews, since I'm pretty new to the fandom. Apologies if I've missed anything, but also I do not have the time to keep up with all the out-of-canon-material backstory unfortunately. I'm working with what we've got here.

So here's the thing:

Alastor is cruel, he's narcissistic, he doesn't care about anyone except himself, he's a serial killer and a monster.

(That's the argument I've heard - please tell me if that's not really what people are going for lol, in which case I've totally misunderstood?)

The issue with aroace rep when it paints asexual people with those traits is that it aims to dehumanizes them. Sex and love are essential to the human experience, right? So why wouldn't someone be interested? Because they're self-absorbed, and cold, and detached. They don't have the capacity to love others enough to feel romance.

And sure, Alastor is a killer, and a schemer, and prideful, and a monster by hell's standards. But no matter how above it all and stylish and in control and provocative he wants to be, he's a very human character, and his aroace-ness never serves to add to his alienation. You could even say that it makes him seem even more personable.

That's what I think is the key difference.

why he's human

Alastor's whole persona is about control, and he basically straight-up says this. He's controlling what his enemies know, what his public image is like. His goal is to be the Radio Demon -- overlord of Hell, charismatic, Machiavellian, and undefeatable. He's not. Despite that smile plastered over his face (a powerful tool, huh) he's so expressive for someone who's constantly pretending.

You see his exasperation with the Egg Bois and with Charlie's ranting; his nervousness in front of Zestial; his frustration with Lucifer and the petty lengths he goes to to piss off the ruler of Hell.

You see his desperation, making that deal with Charlie. He's surprised by the idea of being vulnerable in front of an enemy like Adam, and so close to danger. He drops the radio filter and the affect out of fear, and runs on broadcast TV to let out panic and anger and bitterness in his hideout, where no one else can see him.

He has a smile that tells us he's genuinely happy to see someone; it's a little wider than his default. You see it with Mimzy's greeting, you see it with Rosie. Rosie, especially, serves to make Alastor more human to the audience. More on this later, but for now, I'm just saying that you can see that he at least seems to respect her greatly. Whatever bond they have, we know that he trusts her to touch him, to share history with him, and with support that he trusts no one else for.

He pretends, but he can't pretend it all away. Loads of these emotions aren't even advantageous for him to show. It isn't necessarily how the typical asexual psychopath acts; he's not emotionless or only capable of anger or brutality.

He's so full of emotion that it leaks through, despite all that he does to avoid it. He's not inhuman and aloof, not really - he's so, so human, even when he tries not to be because he thinks that'll be what keeps him above all the rest. In control, and free from his chains.

(If anyone wants to see images about all this, I'll make a separate post - just let me know.)

(I also have another post, talking about why Alastor is at least a little attached to the hotel's residents too, shown via conversation with Niffty. In what way? different question.)

how the aroace part contributes to that

Now, to be fair, we don't hear much about his aroaceness in canon. It's just not relevant a lot of the time.

In the pilot, Angel's proposition ruffles his feathers so much that Alastor blanks for a moment. It's a joke, sure, but that ace panic face is a pretty popular Alastor moment in the fandom - Alastor, thrown off-balance by a sex joke of all things, after so many years in Hell that he should probably be used to this.

It's a moment that makes him more approachable; his aroaceness shows him unprepared for something someone else does for one of the only real moments in the whole episode.

And the other part: the ace in the hole statement.

Rosie apparently knows Alastor so well that she read that he's aroace. That tells us about their relationship; namely, that it is long-standing and genuine enough that she gleaned a piece of real information from him. It's a casual fact that she knows about him before he even figured it out himself. It lends legitimacy to their bond - this bond that shows us a more comfortable and warm side of Alastor that we don't often see.

If their relationship is purely business, isn't this something pretty frivolous and personal? It's not like he has anything to gain by telling her about his life, but she learned about it somehow. How close are they? That's where it adds a layer of complexity and personality to his character..

thoughts on representation

Overall, Alastor's an interesting character who has a level of depth and care and personality (outside of cruelty) that asexual psychopath tropes lack. Again, the moments where he's being represented as disinterested in sex or romance don't make him seem detached. Again, they don't say "look how hostile toward relationships his behaviour is - how separate he is from our humanity". That's what bad villain ace rep is. That's not what the show's doing.

Also: I'm not saying that we need to lower our standards or anything, but even if you think it's not the best rep, I feel like we should be supporting HH's efforts here. I know that on Tumblr we have a pretty queer-friendly space going, which is honestly an understatement lol but

Aces are incredibly underrepresented in fiction. There's a whole Wikipedia page about asexual characters in media, and it's short as all hell, and even if you consider what's on there you see quite a number of one-off characters who are never mentioned again.

In terms of real life business - before the DSM updated their definition of hypoactive sexual desire disorder (HSDD) in 2013, identifying as asexual wasn't even a recognized thing. If you talked to a clinician about your lack of sexual desire, you could be diagnosed with a disorder. Only in the 5th edition do we now have a little exclusion footnote about it.

The concept of asexuality hasn't been explored nearly as much as other queer identities in our scientific research. We get crumbs in terms of mainstream representation and understanding. House M.D. has an episode where House "disproves" us because he's just so smart.

Alastor isn't going to be perfect representation. There's no such thing as perfect representation, and from the moment he was conceptualized, you could see how people would take him poorly. Still, I think he's a net positive.

He isn't a side character or a token ace - he's a core part of the show, whose personality and character motivations we can reasonably presume are going to be explored much more deeply in upcoming season(s). He's loved by the fandom. Right now, given what we know, I trust Vivziepop to write the aroace representation he deserves, because with the way I've heard the cast/directing/etc. talk about him, they're trying to do the aroace community justice, so I wish people would let up just a little on the whole "Alastor is bad rep".

Let's give him a chance, all right?

#hazbin hotel #aroace alastor #alastor analysis #hazbin alastor #hazbin hotel spoilers #asexual #asexuality #hazbin alastor meta #hazbin hotel alastor #hazbin #alastor #hazbin meta #hazbin analysis

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justanotherhh · 2 months

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alastor aroace semiotics: symbols/metaphors/codes (oh my!)

thinking about some of the aroace subtext, both in terms of what's definitely intentional, and things that one can pick up on within the burgeoning field of "what the heck does aspec (in this case aroace) semiology even look like in (this particular) narrative?"

there's the really obvious one of course "ace in the hole." funny as well, because ace in the hole could also reference Alastor being the card you play as a hidden advantage (potentially hinting that Rosie knows that Alastor has his own agenda and supports that, like she does in the song). Of course "Alastor is ace" is the main point of the joke, because it's a sentence that comes a little out of nowhere, and clearly confuses Alastor, because he doesn't know Stuff

2. secondly, there's the pilot episode's placing Alastor first next to and then on top of the Ace of Spades. tbh if this was an accident, it sure was a serendipitous one, because the Ace of Spades not only refers to being ace, but specifically aroace (with Hearts meaning alloace, Diamonds meaning demiace, and Clubs meaning grey-ace <- t Ace of Diamonds/Clubs are a more open to interpretation, I've seen some also use them for demiromantic and greyromantic)

3. Body language! Alastor's reactions to being propositioned or involved in a sex joke, or having to listen to romance talk ranges from discomfort (glitching), to blunt refusal/shutting down of the conversation, to boredom/distraction. I haven't made a study of Alastor's body language in detail, but I'd be interested in how his smiles potentially shift when around very sexual and/or romantic discussion, regardless of whether he's the centre of that (but probably moreso if he is). I think this would come more to the fore in future seasons if there were examples beyond Angel Dust, who also made Husk uncomfortable in the first half of s1, but Alastor -- especially in the pilot -- had very visceral reactions to Angel's "flirting/joking," moreso than anyone else, until Angel had really gone too far with Husk in ep4 (and he come onto Alastor as strongly/invasively as he did with Husk)

4. Speaking of Angel... Alastor not being present outside of a flashback in all of episode 4, and not in episode 6 either. Both episodes featured sex heavily, including Angel showing off one of his pornos, and the gang going to a sex club. Also, Valentino was in both of them (makes sense, seeing as they were Angel-centric). I wonder what Alastor feels about Valentino's whole... existence. He's also the only main s1 hotel character to not be involved in the trust exercises that lead them to the bondage/SM club. this has nothing necessarily to do with the character, but he's very much placed outside of sexual scenarios and places by the writing/plot, which is fun to notice, especially in the first two examples, as his not being in the episodes isn't actually explained. No Alastor in the sex episodes, because his fourth wall sex repulsed senses were tingling?

5. boundaries and power fantasies. that is, Alastor is a character who has very clear boundaries and ways of enforcing them. from blowing up Sir Pentious when he grabs his coat, to noping out of any space he wants to, to seizing the narrative from Vox and telling the story on his terms, to shadow tentacles (ironic), nobody touches him emotionally/physically unless they're allowed. Niffty, Rosie, and Mimzy so far appear to be the ones who have crossed into that "allowed" space the most, but considering he lets everyone (barring Lucifer and Husk, who don't want to) hug him in the finale, some of those barriers are coming down, which is another interesting analysis to make at some point

these boundaries aren't all entirely healthy either -- the way he lashes out at Husk who seems to actually be trying to look out for him (which suggests that Husk is emotionally close-ish to him, enough that he didn't realise he was overstepping), and the way he breaks down in the finale, shows that his inability to be vulnerable in front of others is... not actually a good thing. I wrote a whole bunch about how this part of Alastor's writing play into a very aroace-in-feel narrative for him, but suffice to say... a story about someone with boundaries that seems to be completely absent of "romance/sex will fix you" is refreshing. and very aroace coded

there's also a power fantasy in the idea that one can simply bend the space to avoid ones boundaries being trampled over. to be able to either nope out of a room or to make oneself so terrifying that nobody would want to try to get up in your space... it's got a little smthinsmthin of a "wish it were me" in there. being repulsed means an often constant erosion and invasion of boundaries, from people making your disgust and/or obliviousness the centre of their sex jokes, to being hyper-scrutinised and challenged every time you do or don't let someone into your space in whatever way, or challenge their notions of what's "allowed" as an aroace person. sometimes you just want to say "Demonic Powers Be Upon Ye" and be done with it

6. An Absence. most often aspec narrative is defined by an absence of allo-narrative. that is, Angel Dust, Husk, Charlie, Vaggie, Cherri, Sir Pentious, Lucifer, are set up as allo-figures with romance and sex featuring more or less in all of their stories. the only hotel residents so far who don't have that going on are Alastor and Niffty, and Niffty's story has yet to have the foundations laid out for beyond the very bare bones, and she flirts with others (her "bad boy" preference). whatever Alastor's journey is, it's not coded as alloromantic or allosexual in any way, whether through casual jokes/flirting, or a longform romantic and sexual relationship exploration, with the possible exception of...

7. Vox. the characters that Alastor seems closest to in this story are Rosie, Mimzy, Niffty, Charlie, and Husk (with the mysterious figure that owns his soul looming in the back as well). out of them, none of them are coded as anyone he's sexually or romantically involve with or heading in that direction. the last figure in Alastor's life that's very heavily figured so far is Vox. And Vox is obsessed with Alastor in a way that absolutely can be read as a bad one-sided break-up/jilted stalker type framing, with Alastor gleefully recounting his "no" when talking about their past, and otherwise putting Vox out of his mind, while almost all of Vox' big character moments revolve around how much real estate Alastor takes up in his mind (literally, considering his error message is all Alastor messaging)

Vox being a figure who is symbolically the trampler of aroace boundaries is a very good way of showing Alastor's total disinterest and even disgust (depending on whether or not he knows that Vox was/is into him), and can act as a future potential interesting barometer for other characters to be "less" invasive, but still not quite getting it to begin with (see, Angel Dust's casual flirting, Charlie's tendency to see everything from her perspective, who knows how Cherri and Lucifer might fit into this equation, and generally the sex-and-romance framing of a lot of the other narratives)

8. I talked about aroaceness being a humanising factor to Alastor in my other big ol' post I did, just want to mention it here as well. so far it exists somewhat as a Potential, in the sense that we're firmly in s1 and there's still a lot of ways this could all go, but I think it's worth mentioning as a form of foundational signposting work that's been done for his character

he's more on the dark grey end of the grey scale of all of these characters, he's manipulative, sadistic, cruel when he wants to be, petty, selfish, likes being the centre of attention + is easily rankled when he's not, and presumably he went to hell because he killed people for kicks <- these traits are not unique to him, considering the setting, but what is is the beginnings of a storyline exploring his particular relationship to vulnerability and power and why those things are a part of him in the way they are. this from the perspective of someone who is aroace (and possibly repulsed) instantly adds a potential sympathetic nuance to who he's become, similar to the layer of power fantasy mentioned above. both of these turn his narrative from a cautionary tale or a villain-played-straight (haha) trope into something much more interesting

with the semiotics of aroaceness already in place, these affect how we read the foundations for the rest of his narrative and where it's going. quite simply, it's one of the biggest factors right now that make all his other story beats more resonant and interesting, depending of course on where they take it...

9. his smile. since we've gotten deep enough into meta territory now that we're in hc/future theorising country -- the smile is of course a mask, that's known to everyone. there's a lot of future opportunities for how to utilise that alongside aroaceness-as-theme-for-him. aroaceness, or just "someone where there is a noticeable lack of romantic (and hinted at sexual) interest," is usually coded through a certain shallowness. a pathologisation of behaviours -- which is another deeper analysis post to make at some point (jeez there's so many). Alastor is off-putting, yes, but he's also very confident and charming when he wants to be, he can put people at ease despite themselves (see, Charlie). It's a very interesting mask to give someone who's aroace, because it makes him complicated, rather than a simple ableist "point at the weirdo with no friends, that's our Outsider/killer."

(it also hearkens back to the humanising factor, in that his shallowness isn't because he's aroace, it's because he doesn't know how to be vulnerable with people as the person he is in a world that is incredibly amatonormative and focused on sex)

His smile can be unnerving, but it can also be disarming, give others the illusion that he's in control, make it impossible to guess his emotions (etc. basically what he said to Charlie)

so quite simply, his smile as a twisted distortion of society's demands upon people. he's not being abrupt, aloof, asocial, unkempt, or all the things aroaceness is often stereotyped as. he's performing the most acceptable normative person you can imagine. his surface is unscratcheable because of normative ideals

it's a very fun, unique-to-this-story way of potentially telling an aroace narrative. I'd be interested in what it takes to make him drop it (if he can, or if the story takes the route of accepting that he can't -- the man who laughs kinda vibes) and whether that will tie into a piece of his story that itself takes on aroace proportions (perhaps related to worrying for others in a non-romantic way, perhaps in relation to being able to or being forced to be vulnerable in a non-romantic/non-sexual way, etcetc).

Potentials:

we haven't seen him around the aro/ace aroace colours yet as far as I can remember, which is a fun, easy way to signpost (see, Vox flashing the bisexual flag on his screen)

since we've had an "ace in the hole" joke, I think we could have an aro/arrow-based pun in there as well, maybe even as a deconstruction of when they're used in romantic ways -- (no aro going through his heart, too aro for cupid's arrow, idk I'm spitballing here) or as literal arrows in some way. also someone's gotta call him aces at one point, right? just cos? I feel like the "<2" emoji might be too niche (heck, maybe all of this is, but that's part of the point -- all of this should be ways we're able to signpost aro and ace and aroace characters), but there's characters who know modern emoji and online lingo

other asexual symbols I know of include stating a preference for cake or pizza over sex and/or dating and the black and white rings (worn respectively on right an left middle fingers, although since they only have four fingers in this world...)

I've really enjoyed "clueless cannibal about modern lingo" Alastor comics, including the one about serving cunt and the one about eating ass both by @nouverx. it goes nicely on from his being confused about "ace in the hole," with that HH style sexual comedy. there's a whole bunch of that one could play with

speaking of slang, confirmed bachelor has often meant gay, but the aro/ace community and the gay community has overlapped as long as anyone has been non-conforming. @creepysora suggested a gentleman never kisses and tells, either as Alastor being unaware that it's actually about sex, or as an aware deconstruction of the phrase that gives him the space (similar to confirmed bachelor) to sneakily go, "go mind your own fucking business 😊!" I'm sure there are others that could fulfill a similar purpose of allowing Alastor a certain kind of old-timey buffer

similar to the episode of Bojack Horseman that had Todd visit his girlfriend's parents (both Todd and his GF are asexual and not out to her parents), which depicted allosexuality from the perspective of asexuality as something nonsensical and Other, perhaps having something from Alastor's POV in which he's the observer of the rites of romance and/or sex in a way that shows their strangeness when one sits outside of their tenets

would kind of like to see him killing/hurting people for being pushy, either when alive or dead. I already see a lot of potentials for his past as a serial killer to be framed from an aroace POV, but I especially like this idea, similar to how Hannibal often targets people for being "rude."

more on what I was saying about aroaceness as a humanising trait -- more on how this affected him in life, how he feels about Vox's consistent obsessive behaviour, how it potentially makes it harder to imagine his place in a group setting like the hotel (which is rapidly being paired off into romantic couples -- often a nightmare scenario for aromantics), more on how potentially learning these words or something better to describe himself can make it possible for him to assert boundaries without shutting everyone out to a large extent, and also, tbh, to put Big Expectations onto a story that's barely even started, I hope that none of this takes away his less savoury traits necessarily. I hope he's still kind of an asshole, but simply that he is grounded in himself enough to be able to really believe in Charlie's work/aims and support her in them for more reasons than his own ends, and can admit to really caring for something

reiterating: I am interested in how his smile-as-mask will play into all of this

Any symbolism, metaphor, coding, and straight-up telling I've missed in the show itself? Any you'd want to see in upcoming seasons?

#alastor #aroace alastor #hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel meta #i keep saying *there's another analysis here* let's see if I ever do

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vylad243 · 1 month

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Ok but the big question is this: who amongst the sins approves of Alastor?

Considering Bee stated in an episode that the sins are all like siblings, and Viv mentioned that they’re like aunts and uncles to Charlie, would they give Alastor the shovel talk at some point?

Oh hell yeah! I love talking about this!! Gives me the chance to flesh out my sins more

Satan and Alastor do not get along. Alastor finds Satan's temperament to be overbearing, and Satan thinks Alastor is a dick. Alastor is always in control of his emotions, while Satan is never in control of his rage. Satan doesn't approve of Alastor because he thinks Alastor lacks emotion and doesn't actually care for Vox and wants to take advantage of him. They have no issue hiding their distaste towards one another

Lucifer also doesn't approve of Alastor because he's convinced Vox can do waaaaay better. Lucifer hasn't given Alastor the shovel talk because Alastor knows Lucifer hates him and would gladly kill him if given the chance. Lucifer does respect their relationship nonetheless and warms up to Alastor a bit when he sees Alastor genuinely cares for Vox

Levi doesn't have much of an opinion on Alastor. He knows Vox is happier with him, and Vark likes hims- so that's enough for him. Levi did find out about the fight between Vark and Alastor and did yell at him for that. Vox mends the bad blood between the two by showing that Vark forgave Alastor, and he explained that Alastor wasn't in the right place of mind and was trying to protect Vox. Levi trusts Vox and Vark to make good decisions, so he respects their decision and can be alone with Alastor with no problems

Bee LOVES Alastor. She thinks his whole gimmick of killing abusers is cool and likes how happy he always is. Bee was the only one who knew of Val, so she was extremely pleased when Vox announced he had broken up with Val and was dating Alastor. Bee was the one who gave Alastor the shovel talk, but once she found out about how he killed Valentino, she trusted him immediately with Vox's life. She likes to send them both gifts in the mail, and she'll send Alastor little notes about different things Vox likes. Alastor is a bit intimidated by her outgoing personality, but he likes her and can see why her and Vox are the closest of all the sins. Plus, Alastor just gets along with women a lot better than the boys, so Bee was an automatic win because she was a woman in power. Alastor was scared of her judgement the most because she is one of Vox's best friends

Belph also gave Alastor a shovel talk - well tried too. She accidentally fell asleep during it, and Alastor laid her on the couch and tucked her in. That was all the information she needed. Belph likes Alastor the most out of every sin and actually prefers him over Vox because he's a lot more laid back. Alastor doesn't like her party drug habits, but she doesn't care about his opinion. He is her friend and he has no saying in it. She also got an automatic boost to Alastor's 'I like you' meter because she is also a woman

Asmodeus was the hardest to gain approval from. Once he found out about Valentino- Ozzy didn't trust any of Vox's taste in men. Once Alastor passed Belph, Levi, and Bee's judgement, that was when Ozzy finally decided to give him a shot. Alastor refused to do anything different around Ozzy to really prove a point to him. Ozzy found him a bit egotistical, but he was also intrigued by the lack of lust Alastor felt. It's not every day you meet an aroace person when you're the embodiment of lust. It took Alastor a bit of time, but he won Oz over eventually, and Ozzy is Alastor's go-to for relationship advice. Ozzy understands Alastor's struggles, and he tries his best to help him, Alastor feels safe with Oz because of his rule of consent. Oz is Alastor's favourite despite being the embodiment of lust, which makes Ozzy feel flattered. Asmodeus has also given him a shovel talk

Mammon viewed Alastor as a problem at first, but the amount of power outages went down in Greed, so he eventually grew to like Alastor because he was helping him make money, even if Alastor wasn't aware of it. He doesn't care for Vox's feelings or emotions and only cares for the power Vox supplies him with, so he never once tried to get to know Alastor

They all view Vox as their family. He's like that one friend that just somehow gets adopted by your parents

#hazbin hotel #anonymous #vox hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel alastor #radiostatic #hazbin hotel asmodeus #hazbin hotel beelzebub #hazbin hotel mammon #hazbin hotel belphegor #hazbin hotel leviathan #hazbin hotel satan #hazbin hotel lucifer

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ptsdangeldust · 3 months

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original by @frilled-cheese-sandwich !! altho i had to modify it bc like. i do have favorite *dynamics* in this show but "otp" implies i think of them as definitely romantic and probably reciprocated and like.... obviously not applicable when my favorite character is aroace LOL

.... so yeah obviously this came out very chaotic looking hsduigd it's legible to ME at least lol. arrows are all which direction the emotion is felt in, so for clarity's sake mutual connections have arrows on both ends. also ofc some connections have Layers lol

i feel like i have some kind of something or other to back up anything i have on here / these are like my actual thoughts on what's happening and are as unbiased as they're gonna get...... aside from me being convinced alastor has the aroace equivalent of a massive fucking hateboner for lucifer. and this has nothing to do with kin shit i SWEAR

it's funny that i was so loud about radiodust after the pilot and now i'm like.... man they just have no connection whatsoever beyond husk complaining about alastor to angel and angel being like 'god i know how you feel that shit sucks' lol sduhgshi

probably my hc that alastor just really doesn't like mimzy at all and is pretending to be her friend more for appearances than anything might be exaggerated. i do think mimzy genuinely likes him though, she just doesn't really understand that she sucks LOL

also yeah there isn't concrete proof that lute is (was) truly Into adam but it makes sense to me.

i originally was a big proponent of the "rosie is secretly lilith in disguise" theory but that might have been debunked........ although it's not quite clear enough yet to be able to tell.

i do think sir pentious was serious about wanting to have sex with cherri bomb but i think his attraction to her is purely romantic as far as i can tell? like the sex is there but he's...... maybe not 100% ace, maybe closer to demi, is i guess what i'm getting at? like sex seems like a bit of an afterthought, is the impression i get. idk that could be kind of infantalizing on my part. not sure.

i don't know enough about lilith to be able to tell any of her feelings yet...... nor do i fully understand the terms of the contract lute mentioned or who it was with etc. a lot of my theories got turned on their head in those last ten seconds LOL

i'll have to make a separate post about theories once i gather my thoughts LOL

#hazbin hotel #otp chart #hc chart #my post

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justanotherhh · 10 days

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Hi! Love your blog! I have a question:

Maybe it's because I listen to a lot of crime podcasts, but I have never associated psychopathy with being aro and/or ace (despite or maybe because I'm on the aroace spectrum myself?). Is this one of those things where there are people out there equating – I imagine especially aromanticism – with being emotionless? I feel like I've mainly heard the – also horrible – comments of aroace people being "like robots". Then again, I'm not "fully" aroace, nor have I had the need to be super open about it, so I don't pay much attention to this stuff.

Anyway, while I agree that calling Alastor an "evil psychopath" is simplifying things something that frustrates me in parts of the Hellaverse fandom in general....or just fandom in general, tbf...I don't think considering him to be on the ASPD spectrum is incorrect?

Enough rambling and onto my main question: in your opinion, should I always clarify that when I call someone a psychopath and that person also happens to be aro and/or ace, that the two things are not correlated? I don't want to accidentally imply something hurtful/feed into a horrible social mentality. P.S. I want to be clear that I don't want to imply that all people with ASPD are murderers/rapists etc either. Though clearly Alastor is the former. Of course they're not. And I can only imagine how much of a struggle living with such a disorder might be.

hello hello, thank you for the questions. i shall try to be methodical and not rambly (we'll see how it pans out)

yeah there's a big ableist and queerphobic cliché around "emotionless" characters being psychopaths who don't love -- basically it's an oversimplification of psychopathy and often conflates it with being psychotic, and of course, it assumes a correlation both between psychopathy and being evil, and being aspec -- especially the kind that's further down the end of repulsed and loveless and aplatonic -- as being evil (with "love" being the opposite of these things, which, tangent, do have a whooole other post on with this show, because it's done some very fun and potentially future-interesting things on love and sex)

the key here is that aro and/or ace is often never spoken of in narratives when this happens because well... people don't know wtf that is, so it's got that similar flavour to "oh well buffalo bill isn't transphobic, because actually the character isn't trans, the cisgender psychiatrist said so!" (actually... whole other thing on that too, but not on this blog... basically jame gumb is underrated and i root for them every time i watch the movie), but it's the Idea that "love makes you human, and sex is always assumed with love, and if you don't feel those things, it's a clue that you're evil, and the shorthand for that is psychopathic" -- generally the person writing this has never actually researched the words psychopath or psychotic, it's not about being interested in those concepts in characters, it's just a synonym for Bad

and yeah, the "like robots" fully ties into this -- the other side of the coin is aspec people as children, but alastor sooo far doesn't seem to be read this way, although the whole "but if he just discovers how to do Love/Touch/Sex in [insert whatever is wanted for this narrative] he'll become better" does play into some of those tropes too, that there is inherently something mentally ill about being aspec, and that being mentally ill is a sign of Badness (there really is a whole Essay i could do on this, and the general overlap between aspec-writing and trans-writing but! i will resist!), and it's about whether or not the Badness can be cured. if not, he's a psychopath, if yes, it's through normative relationship structures/fundamentally changing the character

it all comes down to actual curiosity -- hc'ing alastor as ASPD is totally fine (i also hc blitzø from helluva boss as BPD) and can open up a lot of doors for interrogation and interest, it's whether someone is using mental health as shorthand for shutting down further interaction with the character (think Psycho's "ah yes, this character is schizophrenic and has mother issues, hence why wearing women's clothing, the end"), or if this allows further play with the character, opens up potential doors, considers the character as rounded, rather than one-note. some aspec people do have a history of trauma or have personality disorders or are autistic, but is someone actually interested in exploring the rich variation of queerness within a character, or are we "explaining it away" as something that's merely a symptom (often one that is imagined to be fixable)

generally, im so into poking at villains and i think alastor is one of the juiciest characters ive had to play with in awhile, mainly because it feels like a lot of his writing is intentional and isn't me deciding to delve into the motivations of [slasher/monster/villain/etc] that doesn't actually exist in the text -- and i think alastor definitely does have some Stuff that could be unpacked from a neurodivergent and mental health perspective, even and including parts of his aroaceness

so in the end, picturing him on the ASPD spectrum and even linking that to aroaceness... I mean, totally chill. al-old-pal does have low empathy, and a pattern of reckless, violent behaviour, and fundamentally views relationships differently from the norm. im making arguments that he hasn't been able to create the kind of intimacy that works for him, except for perhaps with rosie and maaaaybe mimzy and niffty (@creepysora has had some very cool ideas of him connecting in alternate ways that work with his way of being and boundaries), but that doesn't mean he's suddenly More remorseful or empathetic about how his actions affect others

it's about whether or not one is using that as a way of minimising or pathologising aroaceness, and/or as a way of making aspec identities all about self-hatred (and that in turn fuels villainy), and/or generally as an explanation of his villainy as some inherent degeneracy, and/or using the word "psychopath" to mean something completely different from what it actually is... that's when we get into sticky territory

and in the end, it can be hard -- something that's perfectly reasonable to one person, could be crossing a boundary for someone else and we just have to live with that, so don't wait on my blessing, i just think as long as one's caring and curious it's heading in the right direction. i watch a lot of horror, and i can usually recognise when something is well-meaning and something is lazy, and even times when it's the latter i can still find enjoyment (think angela from sleepaway camp -- on the flipside the movie they/them was well-meaning and a complete miss in its final political statement)

i recognise also im bringing up a lot of trans villainy as-example, rather than aspec villainy. that's a. because my special interest is trans horror so go figure and b. because that overlap is soooo real

(another example, not horror unless you're a karate kid 3 truther, is the character terry silver, who is never stated to be aromantic, but whose villainy on the later show cobra kai is intimately tied to an unspecified madness that includes low empathy and... no love, vs all the happily monogamous (het) relationships around him. he's not aromantic, he's not diagnosed with anything, it's not of interest to the story that he may be mentally ill or have PTSD or be aro and possibly loveless or that he may be gay -- because yes, he's coded that way too and that overlap is also real, and a whole other tangent i could go on -- it's just subtext to add to the villainy)

now another tangent, but loosely connected: was reading a transcript of the 1974 TS/TV conference (the first of its kind that was organised in the way it was) -- a series of talks over the course of a weekend discussing trans rights, especially in healthcare, and it fully contained a section of someone saying that "true" transsexuals can be recognised because before they physically transition (into binary genders)... they're asexual. because they hate their bodies so much that they can't feel sexual attraction to others. lot to unpack there, but really in this little conversation as example, what i mean is that the roots of pathologising aspec identities run very very deep, including within the wider LGBT+ community, and since alastor is quite a complex character that has done some very bad things, it's worth really thinking about what headcanoning him as one way or another says about the character for oneself. what does it add? what does it potentially demonise or minimise? what does it allow?

the neat thing about hellaverse is the sheer amount of queer characters meaning we can go beyond "if x character is Bad this represents Every person within this group" but with alastor being (so far) the only character who's not doing the whole love-and-sex game (although i think striker counts in this as well, personally + listen... sir pentious givin' real demi vibes. and if we're looking for a link between trauma and asexuality, well, angel is right there. and, and, and...), it does bear going the extra length to learn about -- especially since a lot of people really don't know that these biases even exist in the first place, which leads to a lot of unthinking perpetuating

i think a good place to start would honestly be: "would this feel like a queerphobic and ableist coding if the character were gay? trans? bi?" not because we're totally over queerphobic writing in general (lol, can you imagine), but as a starting point: are we treating aspec identity in text in a way that makes the idea of being aspec in and of itself degeneracy?

but like. hell yeah villains. hell yeah neurodivergency, mental illness, low empathy, lovelessness, unhealthy coping mechanisms, Bad Mean Queers, cannibalism, and characters you just can't quite suss out. big into a fucked up little guy

how did i do on the ramblyness

#alastor #aroace alastor #hazbin hotel #hh meta #alastor meta #my meta

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