Discussing Lore with @lordmarble 😂 This is obviously unhinged but there are some points here in this conversation that I would like to expand upon, be warned tho, this post is super long with a ton of pictures and mostly filled with speculation lol
So yeah, Messmer is potentially Godfreys son, and more importantly Marikas first born. Obviously this is all speculation but it still has some validity to it considering the evidence.
The impaled Giants at the top of Flame Peak had always been a source of confusion to me, but now with Messmers existence made apparent, and his moniker being "The Impaler", if he truly were Marikas first born then his role in the War of the Giants would make sense.
At the Mountaintops of the Giants we find the First Church of Marika, and this church was most likely constructed during the War and was the beginning of Marikas conquest and reign, and possibly where she wed Godfrey. Now crudeness asside, usually back in the day after a wedding you would consummate the marriage to attempt to produce heirs, so it would have been likely that Messmer was born during the war and had a strong part in ending it too:
Godfrey would lead the charge causing absolute devastation, and Messmer, the product of the union between the newest God in the Lands Between and this fierce warrior turned even fiercer Lord, would truly be a child of strength and a sight to behold on the battle field.
As for why Messmers hair would be red, I will turn your attention to the speculated Giants curse and how it (potentially) was that curse that made Radagon despise his own hair. Well the exact specifics of the curses origins are unknown, but what if the Giants/Fell God cursed Marika when she was pregnant with Messmer?
Hmm, your Era of Gold certainly is off to a great start with your red-headed baby Marika.
Queen Marika, gets pregnant:
The Giants and the Fell God: QUICK CURSE HER ENTIRE LINEAGE NONE OF THEM CAN BE FREE
😂 Jokes aside, the fact that this is possible intrigues me because not only does it flip the truth of Elden Rings history on its head, but because the red hair trait didn't begin with Radagon, it began with Messmer.
And now in the trailer we see this statue right behind Messmer of a woman holding a baby:
The woman is without a doubt Marika, as proven by the arm bands and the braid. And a statue like this seems to me like the type of statue that would have been commissioned to commemorate the birth of Queen Marikas, Gods, first born child.
But seeing how we don't see this statue anywhere in the Lands Between, and how Messmer is essentially a walking symbol of blasphemy against the Erdtree, it would make sense if this statue, along with Messmer, were tossed into the Land of Shadow to be forgotten along with the rest of the things and cultures that the Golden Order shuns. Which is exactly what this Land is as confirmed in an interview with Miyazaki.
Messmer also being brothers with Godwyn really gives Godwyn the much needed characterization and backstory that he is severely lacking, and Messmer being associated with Ancient Dragon Communion would make perfect sense if he was a cofounder to the Ancient Dragon Cult alongside Godwyn. As well as the angst that follows from the potential falling out and banishment that happens.
Like I said in the above dialogue at some point Messmer became this utterly blasphemous figure to the point that he was completely erased from history. What he did at this point, is unknown, but my money is on the theory that the Erdtree has been burnt once before. And committing such a massive Cardinal Sin is clearly worthy of being scrubbed from history all together.
If all of this did happen back in Godfreys era then it would make sense why the snake was seen as a traitor as far back as the gladiatoral days 🤔
So many things going on here with Miquella
I am fairly certain that Miquella is still alive, his soul and spirit may have left his body but his heart is definitely still beating. If you know about my Miquella blood theory, then you know that I theorized that the Arteria Leaf is connected to Miquella and the fact that the leaf has a faint pulse is quite telling.
And then there's this little blurb of mine👇:
"Also there may be a high ass chance that as st. trina, miquella might be able to have prophetic dreams seeing as he entrusted torrent to melina, and the spirit bell to ranni, to both give to you when you arrive to the lands between
miquella KNOWS about the tarnished and has likely favored us for a very long time."
It would not surprise me in the SLIGHTEST BIT if Miquella did indeed have prophetic dreams lol
So clearly Miquella knows about us and is willing to go so far to give us both Torrent and the Spirit Calling Bell(and 3 wolves) by proxy via Melina and Ranni. Miquella obviously has a lot riding on us I would say, and whatever he seeks to accomplish in the Land of Shadow relies entirely upon us...
Also if Miquella does have prophetic dreams could he or did he foresee Mohg kidnapping him???? Or is there a limit to what he can and cannot see in his dreams 🤔 But this post is already long enough, so I'm gonna end it here and leave it for another speculation for another time!
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E&T: A Truly Slothful Start
*points at Erebus* Bro is NOT built for this lmao (btw I drew the sloth demon a v long time ago enjoy)
Suggested battle music: Grandma (Destruction) from NieR: Automata (spotify | youtube)
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Ingredients: combat whump we fight monster, amputation hehe (not gory tho!), slight drowning, undescribed eye whump
PART III: Untitled World
The things that hit him first were the suffocating darkness and the awful chill in the air.
Erebus knew he didn’t belong here. All around him, strange rock formations jutted out every which way, no sign of life among them. There didn’t seem to be any source of light, and yet everything was clearly visible, casting hardly any shadow. The silence was nearly absolute, pressing in on his ears. The only thing he could hear was the freakishly loud sound of his own heartbeat, amplified by the collar around his neck.
Wait, the collar-he reached up for it, fingers closing around the awful strip of leather that he’d been forced to wear since the start of his captivity. He had a sword, he had claws, and N...no one would make him wear another one if he broke it. So he should take it off, right? He should destroy it. He’d always hated it, the way it meant he was owned, how it let-let people put leashes on him and lead him around like a dog. She...she’d said it herself, that he had to wear it so he wouldn’t forget that he belonged to her, but now they were...not together. So it shouldn’t matter.
But he couldn’t stop thinking about when she’d taken it off for the procedure with the envy demon, about how utterly, embarrassingly exposed he’d felt without that stupid collar. Maybe the feeling would pass, and he would just have to get used to being without it. He hadn’t worn one for the vast majority of his life, so it should be easy to adjust back, right? Besides, it was more than just a collar, it was a way for her to know if someone other than her was touching him, and that was violating, it was...it was a way for her to know he was alive. Assuming it worked, assuming whatever signal it was could be sent to another world.
Erebus lowered his hands, still chained together, as he blinked away tears. He-he was really here, in this other world with only a slim chance of ever going back. He’d take every tie to his old life he could get, no matter how painful. And if the spell on the collar worked, then…he owed it to her to let her know he was still alive. He could wear the collar for a little while longer. The muzzle, on the other hand...he didn’t mind tearing that off and throwing it away in the slightest.
Shakily, he stood, grabbing the sheathed sword in front of him. Being expected to fight was…strange. But, looking at himself now, he was practically designed for this, almost every modification giving him some sort of advantage. It made his blood run cold to think about how this had been the plan from the start, how obvious it seemed now. He wanted to lay down and sob and process what had happened, but everything was so different and strange that he didn’t feel safe enough to let his guard down like that. Swallowing the lump in his throat, he buckled the sword belt around his waist and began looking around.
Behind where he’d appeared, there was a bag lying on the ground. Inside was a cloak with holes for his wings, a knife, and a bedroll. Well, better than nothing, but he wasn’t sure what he was supposed to do about food and water or lighting a fire. Maybe that demon tongue would be coming in handy, after all. He put on the cloak, grateful to have something to help him keep warm in this place, along with the shoes he still had on from their trip to the desert.
Nothing else here, he began carefully making his way along one of the stone cliffs, leaning on it since there had never been a chance to fully heal the gash in his leg. Progress was slow, and maybe it would have been a good time to think things through, but he couldn’t stop tears from forming in his eyes at the mere thought of what had happened, so instead he just focused on the pain in his leg, flaring up brighter with every step.
Time felt impossible to grasp, as if this place was outside of it entirely, but at some point Erebus reached the end of the maze of stone. He was greeted with what looked like a vast ocean, but the water was unnaturally calm, not a single ripple on the glass-like surface. Had there been stars above, it would have been beautiful, but under the canopy of uniform blackness, it just looked like a cold, empty void.
Erebus hesitated to step out in the open, no walls to protect him, but the silence was so absolute that he couldn’t imagine there was another living thing anywhere near him. His leg didn’t hurt quite as much anymore despite how much he’d been walking, so he was able to hobble to the water’s edge and investigate, setting the pack down to make moving around a little easier. The sword, however, still hung at his side, just in case.
The water was clear, and as far as he could tell, there was no sign of life in it whatsoever. It was jarringly different from the seaside at home, where you could hardly take a step without spotting a shellfish or aquatic plant. Here, it was just pebbles, no broken shells or bits of dead coral among them. He crouched and dipped a finger in, finding the water both cold and salty. The ripples created by his finger traveled far, seeming to get bigger as they traveled along. Suddenly, even bigger ripples rushed to meet them from farther out, and Erebus’s stomach knotted in terror as he bolted upright, pulling out the sword, having to hold it with both hands since they were still chained.
He strained his eyes in the darkness, looking for whatever had caused the disturbance. Was that...there was something in the water out there, he was sure of it. He took a few steps back, sword still held in front of him, watching the strange shape grow larger and larger as it approached. The moment the tip of its nose emerged, the surface of the water erupted, spraying Erebus with cold mist and shooting tendrils out into the open air that coalesced into a large sort of web. Arches of water now crisscrossed all throughout the space, severely limiting how much he could fly around, especially since he never had a chance to practice it much. In the middle of the watery network was a large bubble, and when he saw what was inside it, Erebus’s jaw dropped.
The creature was enormous, big enough to swallow him whole in one bite. Its pale gray body was long, with two pairs of flippers that were almost as big as Erebus and a webbed, spiny ridge going down its back. A cruel, curved hook jutted out from the end of its tail, almost as sharp-looking as its conical teeth. As Erebus looked at it in horror, it turned its gaze to him, its blank white eyes staring into his own identical pair. So this…this must be a sloth demon. He was supposed to fight that?
He could leave, just run and hide, this thing couldn’t follow him through those rocky canyons, he could stop and take a moment to think, but this was an enemy right in front of him, and no matter how terrifying, it had revealed itself, no more surprises. Erebus tightened his grip. If he could-could beat this thing then he could really rest. It would be safe here. He would be that much closer to going h…somewhere that wasn’t here. He could do this. He had to.
Despite how much he was shaking, Erebus took flight and approached, finding it difficult to do so while he was holding the sword, but not enough for him to fall out of the air. The demon just watched as he flew past the jets of water, and Erebus hated those blank white eyes boring into him, which just made him loathe his own all that much more. How…how exactly was he supposed to attack it? It was so huge and he couldn’t see any kind of obvious weakness, not to mention that it was surrounded by a sphere of water. While he knew his eyes worked underwater, he could only imagine his wings would be a hindrance, not to mention the heavy sword.
Maybe…maybe he should just retreat for now. Come up with a plan and come back. This was just…it was too much. Reassuring himself that the demon couldn’t follow him, he cautiously turned around and started to weave his way through the tendrils of-there was a sharp jerk on his wing, and suddenly Erebus was being dragged through the air, crashing into pillars of water as he went, barely registering the splash of his sword hitting the sea below as he scrambled to get his wing free of-of-it was that hook it was pierced through the top of Erebus’s wing he couldn’t get it out his fingers were slippery and freezing and useless he had to do something kick his legs flap his wings anything-
Just as those awful teeth came into view, Erebus managed to swing himself back, but the chain on his wrists was caught, wrapped around a tooth, his fall jerked to a halt, he was hanging by his wrists, the hook was gone but his wing wouldn’t work, he had to do something, that eye was so big and so close, watching him struggle, the beast’s throat humming with an ancient growl, hungry, he couldn’t just let this happen, he grabbed the tooth with his left hand and the chain with his right, he could do this, pull himself up enough to-
The great jaws snapped shut, and Erebus tumbled into the water below.
Cold shocked his system, despite the fact that his left arm felt like it was on fire.
He couldn’t stay down here. He had to get to the surface.
But, down there, a faint glint. Metal. His sword. His only hope of winning.
He swam towards it, progress slow and painful and-
His left hand was gone.
There wasn’t time to mourn it.
His remaining hand wrapped around the hilt of the sword. It was heavy, too heavy for him to swim up with.
He was running out of air. He had to try. This couldn’t be the end. Not here. Not so soon after-
The hook pierced through his wing again, and it was all he could do to hold onto his sword this time around.
The sloth demon pulled him up and out of the water with its tail, tossing him high into the air as it opened its great jaws to swallow him whole. His wings torn and useless, all Erebus could do was flap them desperately and hope it would be enough, hope he could at least-his foot landed on one of those teeth, holding him for just a moment before he slipped, but it was enough to aim his sword hold it steady launch himself down drive that point right down into the demon’s eye paint that awful soulless white with red hear the roar of agony so loud he could feel it in his bones and now the water was collapsing falling back down the great corpse falling with it he had to get away wrench the sword out jump back splash into the water struggle to the surface to the shore drag himself out of the water collapse on the shore and breathe.
He-he’d won, but just barely, and the losses were-Erebus bit back tears, looking away from the ragged stump at the end of his left arm. There was no way he could survive six more fights like that.
This horrible, hostile place was going to destroy him, and there would be nothing left of him to go back home.
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