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iheartbookbran · 3 years

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I think the whole Daenerys burning KL thing has a lot less to do with her than it does several other plot threads and themes in the story. Unfortunately I think GRRM is going to use Daenerys to confront the concept of paying for your ancestors crimes, her father put that wildfire there, her legacy (as a Targaryen, not as Daenerys herself) is literally built on fire and blood. The Targaryens might have united the 7 Kingdoms, but they did so with a lot of unnecessary bloodshed, and there was almost never a time in their history of reigning where there wasn't war. Daenerys as an individual is not responsible for any of this, and I wholeheartedly agree with you that she doesn't need to be taught a lesson about abuse of power, but unfortunately I think GRRM is going in this direction anyways, because he's going to use her as a climax for the entire Targaryen reign. It's a cruel sort of irony, that the place her ancestors built from the ground up will be the cause of her "downfall" and probably turn her into a morally ambiguous historical figure in the future, regardless of what she does to save Westeros from the others.

And there's the fact that the wildfire beneath KL is a huge chekov's gun. Someone *has* to ignite it, and if it's not Daenerys, I'm not entirely sure who it could be. Cersei is definitely a contender, but seeing as she doesn't know about the wildfire yet, it's a little bit of a reach. I think it would be a very tragic way to wrap up Daenery's storyline, but it seems like that's the direction GRRM is headed in :/

Hey there! Ok, a little disclaimer before I start: today I got my first covid vaccine shot and I’m a little dizzy as a result so I might not make much sense right now. Sorry in advance.

While I completely get the whole ‘paying for the crimes of your ancestors’ concept you’re bringing up, and that’s a theme GRRM is definitely fond of exploring, to me it would be like holding Dany at completely different standards than the rest of the characters. Because it’s one thing for Dany to be in conflict with her father’s legacy—which tbh I would say she already kinda is?—and another entirely to punish Dany for every bad thing the Targaryens ever did because Monarchies=Bad and therefore Targaryens=Bad. I mean we wouldn’t be getting anything similar from the other major POVs. For example, I don’t believe a house like that of the Starks could rule for literally thousands of years without a little blood in their hands, it’s just GRRM doesn’t focus as much on them (and they didn’t have dragons, but I already explained why I believe Dany doesn’t need a lesson on how her dragons can be dangerous in the first place).

I think when it comes to fathers and legacies characters like Dany, Tyrion and Jon are very similar because a part of their stories is about showcasing how they’re not like their fathers. Tyrion has to confront his father… and kill him so he can move on with his life, which in turn kickstarts the downfall of House Lannister, but that was something Tyrion was alive to see, and to question and to know that it wasn’t as glorious as his family wanted to believe it was, but instead shallow and rotten; Dany on the other hand never got to see her family in full power and reap the benefits of that; in fact, she was actively a target for most of her childhood because of her name. With Jon I think he will be confronted with the legacies of his biological Father (Rhaegar) and his adopted one (Ned), and try and decide which one he wants to honor, or that maybe he ought to forge his own path entirely.

Now with Dany, again she’s already starting to question Viserys’ narrative about their father, we see it in her conversations with Ser Barristan and her fears of ‘turning mad’ like Aerys (and tbh that’s all the reasons I need to know why she wouldn’t go mad) for me not to believe she’s going to try to distance herself from what her father represented. The destruction of KL and the knowledge of her father’s role in it would just solidify that in Dany’s head plus the internal emotional conflict that would come with it but without the extra steps of the author needlessly lecturing Dany (and us) about the dangers of unchecked power or that a throne is not all there is in life; I would argue Dany already knows that. She doesn’t need a reason or an excuse to be a rescuer, she already is one, as Tyrion (GRRM) said for several paragraphs in ADWD.

The part that you mention about the destruction of KL giving Dany bad PR? I believe she already has it lmao. Just remember how she was talked about during Quentyn and Tyrion’s POVs, while a lot of people love her, many others hate her guts to a hilarious degree and demonize her for what she’s done to the poor defenseless slave masters. Such are the woes of women who rise to power and then go like “hey… maybe owning people is wrong?” but I digress. As you said, there are currently many contenders for the honor of getting to burn KL, and who knows, maybe it will be a group effort! I suspect the dragons will be involved one way or another, but the stolen ones (idk if Euron will steal more than one dragon) so adding Dany to the mix wouldn’t make much sense except to make way for her showdown with Aegon VI, that at this point honestly I’m not that interested in. I think Dany has more important stuff going on for her. Like, there’s a lot of confrontations I would like to happen that I believe the narrative as it currently stands doesn’t have much room to allow to breathe properly, like Jaime/Tyrion, Cercei/Tyrion, Arianne/her family in general. At the end of the day those dragons are her dragons, her children, and she will blame herself strongly for whatever they do (and others will too, enthusiastically, I’m sure), just remember how much guilt she feels over Drogon killing that little girl, and no one was controlling him then, not even Dany.

So basically what I was trying to convey during this mess of a response is that I’m not saying Daenerys has no buisness in the KL conflict, but rather that making her the one responsible for its destruction would feel way too contrived for me, it would require the plot to stay on hold for god knows how long until she’s done with her business in Essos and it would do absolutely nothing for her character or development but rather serve as some kind of twisted double-standard in which only Dany has to atone for the sins of her ancestors, as if living exiled and destitude all her life wasn’t enough.

#again sorry for my rambling and not making any sense i swear i’m dying a little here and my arm hurts like hell #Anonymous #ask #ask pam #daenerys targaryen #stormborn #asoiaf #asoiaf meta #a song of ice and fire #valyrianscrolls #pro daenerys #meta #my meta

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ginmo · 5 years

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You're not delusional for entertaining the possibility of Brienne as YMB

“If you think anyone but [Insert Queen, most commonly Dany] is the YMB then you’re delusional” is something I have seen quite frequently, so I’ve been inspired to explain why that’s uh...well, complete bullshit.

To be delusional, you need to be spewing garbage without any reason or support and lack any sense of reality. But… there is plenty of evidence and reasoning, based in reality, to simply entertain a theory that isn’t [Insert Easy Choice].

Let me state that I'm not saying with total confidence that Brienne is YMB. I am not saying she is or is not. My claim is that Brienne is a perfectly logical candidate, and that being completely sold on a traditional choice, to the point where you’re publicly making asshole cocky comments about it, is risky af. I’m tired of people shutting down any discussion of it.

This is GRRM. This isn’t supposed to be easy (he literally said this, as shown below). There should be multiple interpretations to this prophecy. People who think it’s Brienne or Sansa or Marg or whoever may be wrong, or people who think it’s Daenerys may be wrong. Or maybe this is supposed to be ambiguous and we’ll never get a definitive answer. Maybe it’s multiple people. It all depends on what angle GRRM is going with. He could be going very literal and traditional with this, sure. Or, he could be going a more poetic route, which is also a style of his writing. Obviously by this post, I prefer the latter, but I see different angles. I’m not going to pretend I’m psychic by claiming I’m right and you’re wrong, and I’m not going misuse the word delusional. If you come after me later with, “LOL I TOLD YOU SO” I’m just going to say you missed the entire point of my post and my point is still 100% valid.

SO. Here is why you all have NO RIGHT to a) be so damn confident in your traditional choices and b) put down others for entertaining Brienne.

Hang on tight. This is long as fuck. First, you need to promise me you’ll do two things.

My two rules:

Consider authorial intent when thinking about meaning and trajectory and

Step outside the bubble and look at this story from a professional angle. A good narrative written by a professional author has structure and purpose.

Before I properly dive into this, let’s see what GRRM has to say about prophecies:

Prophecies are, you know, a double edge sword. You have to handle them very carefully; I mean, they can add depth and interest to a book, but you don’t want to be too literal or too easy…

I mean…. That should be enough to shake your confidence. He even gives an example.

In the Wars of the Roses, that you mentioned, there was one Lord who had been prophesied he would die beneath the walls of a certain castle and he was superstitious at that sort of walls, so he never came anywhere near that castle. He stayed thousands of leagues away from that particular castle because of the prophecy. However, he was killed in the first battle of St. Paul de Vence and when they found him dead he was outside of an inn whose sign was the picture of that castle! [Laughs] So you know? That’s the way prophecies come true in unexpected ways. The more you try to avoid them, the more you are making them true, and I make a little fun with that.

So you always want to frustrate our expectations, am I right?

Yes, it was always my intention: to play with the reader’s expectations. Before I was a writer I was a voracious reader and I am still, and I have read many, many books with very predictable plots. As a reader, what I seek is a book that delights and surprises me. - GRRM

A physically beautiful Queen, or physical beauty in general, would essentially be the Lord being correct of his fate and dying in that castle. The Lord expected to die in that castle. Cersei’s only expectation to YMB is to be “cast down and take all you hold dear” by a literal beauty, literal Queen. That is obviously the reader’s expectation as well. Hello fandom! Cersei doesn’t know who this literal beauty/literal Queen is. She constantly obsesses over WHO, but is always wrong, maybe because it isn’t surface level obvious and it’s her incorrect interpretation, just like lord’s interpretation was wrong. He didn’t die in a literal castle.

See, I’m obviously so delusional for thinking GRRM might be doing, um… exactly what he said? There’s nothing from reality to support an idea that GRRM may not go the easy, literal route. There’s absolutely no reason for me to think this may not be so simple.

….

-__-

Right.

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-Younger, More Beautiful-

Brienne is a possible candidate for the YMB.

...it was always my intention: to play with the reader’s expectations.

For both Cersei and the readers (again hello Freefolk, Twitter, Tumblr), Brienne as the unexpected YMB is a twist to the literal interpretation, fitting GRRM’s idea on how prophecies should be written.

“But everything that has happened about the prophecy was literal so duh this has to be literal!”

The literal parts of the prophecy were marrying the King and the number of children she’ll have. Yeah… there isn’t anything subjective to that, so it’s not surprising that it’s straightforward. She asked a question, Maggy gave her an answer. Besides the part with the children dying, the bit we’re talking about was stuff Maggy added in. Also, is there like a prophecy rule book somewhere I’m not aware of? Maybe consider that we got easy literal bits mixed in so we (and Cersei) are misdirected by the actual focus? Maybe consider that it’s possible for a prophecy to have some literal elements and some not? Maybe consider that a way more subjective (-cough-beauty-cough-) part of the prophecy isn’t as straightforward?

Moving on.

“Aye.” Malice gleamed in Maggy’s yellow eyes. “Queen you shall be… until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear.”- CERSEI VIII, AFFC

It’s common to see “younger more beautiful QUEEN” (YMBQ) floating around fandom. Technically, Maggy never says the person is a Queen, whether literal or symbolic. She says “another.” An equally valid interpretation of that can be, “someone else who is younger and more beautiful than you.”

“Um no, it definitely implies a Queen because the words after and because of the context.”

If you really want to argue that GRRM definitely implies Queen, well, here’s something to chew on.

I’m not going to describe how Brienne’s arc is definitely not ending as her being someone’s bodyguard for the rest of her life. That’s for another time. But that doesn’t even matter really, because it has been made intentionally clear that Brienne is her father’s only heir. Once Brienne’s father dies, even if she’s still active on the battlefield, someone’s bodyguard, or still fucking off somewhere, she will still technically be the Evenstar.

- The Evenstar -

The Evenstar was a title given to the Tarth Kings. That title is still used. Why? It’s interesting to think that GRRM gave random minor House Tarth a specific title used for Kings, and that he allowed the House to continue using that title. Because he created that title for that House and allowed them to keep it, that title becomes symbolic of their previous kingdom. This is similar to our real world where some nations or groups retain titles from their history as more of a symbol. Selwyn Tarth is still known as the Evenstar. Selwyn Tarth is a symbolic King. When he dies (which will probably happen soon), Brienne automatically inherits that title, making her a symbolic Queen. And we all know how much GRRM loves symbolic meaning.

“I still think it’s a LITERAL Queen.”

I mean, a possible theory is that the throne will be destroyed at the end of this and the realm will split back into separate kingdoms. Sooo, if that happens……………………….

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- What does Maggy mean by beautiful?-

I have a really hard time believing that GRRM wants everyone to sit down and argue over who is physically more beautiful between his characters. In every story there are themes explored and messages woven within, so each character with an arc is going to have themes and messages associate with them. One of the themes being explored with Cersei is beauty. (This theme is explored through both Jaime’s and Brienne’s arcs as well, which isn’t a coincidence.)

Cersei’s interpretation of beauty lies on the exterior This is an element of her narcissism (word by GRRM).

(“Cersei isn’t narcissistic????”

You can argue, well, does she genuinely love her children, or does she just love them because they’re her children? There’s certainly a great level of narcissism in Cersei. She has an almost sociopathic view of the world and civilization. - GRRM

Don’t even go there)

In her eyes, a person’s worth is tied to how physically attractive they are. She is obsessed over being beautiful, and her twin being beautiful. Her attitude towards her twin changes when he returns handless. Cersei’s interpretation of the prophecy is that she will be cast down by a physical beauty, which is why she goes after Margaery (Dany most likely later on/Dany in the show). But remember this?

you don’t want to be too literal or too easy

It’s possible GRRM isn’t talking about physical beauty here. a) too literal and b) Cersei is being taught a lesson, and the readers are being sent a message. Like, you know… what good quality literature does. This is important to understand. Maggy probably realizes this about Cersei (like any classic Beauty and the Beast Witch), thus fulfilling the prophecy on her own, her own downfall being caused by her inability to recognize power with inner beauty.

“But Cersei is bringing her own downfall by obsessively trying to avoid the prophecy. As GRRM said, ‘The more you try to avoid them, the more you are making them true.”

And by obsessively going after her interpretation of what beauty is, she’s missing what’s right in front of her face.

“He took Raventree and accepted Lord Blackwood’s surrender,” said her uncle, “but on his way back to Riverrun he left his tail and went off with a woman.”

“A woman?” Cersei stared at him, uncomprehending. “What woman? Why? Where did they go?”

“No one knows. We’ve had no further word of him. The woman may have been the Evenstar’s daughter, Lady Brienne.”

Her. The queen remembered the Maid of Tarth, a huge, ugly, shambling thing who dressed in man’s mail. Jaime would never abandon me for such a creature. My raven never reached him, elsewise he would have come.

- CERSEI I, ADWD

I mean… this right here, imo, is pretty significant, but it’s frequently ignored.

We see Cersei feeling a bit threatened by her rapid fire questioning of what, why, and where.

She places emphasis on Brienne’s looks.

The use of Her. That’s rather strong. GRRM could have taken “Her” out and started her thoughts with, “The queen remembered” but there’s something forceful - as if making a point- to use Her. GRRM also made sure the readers knew that Cersei knows of this woman, and knows what she looks like. From a narrative standpoint, if Brienne’s inner beauty contrasting her outward appearance isn’t an important element in the downfall of Cersei, then there’s literally no reason why Cersei needed to have seen Brienne before. Remember my rules? Yeah, apply them to this one.

“Er, Brienne’s appearance is mentioned so that Cersei knows to not be jealous.”

…I think, “Jaime would never abandon me for such a creature” is basically saying “LOL well he did.” It’s GRRM telling Cersei, and the readers, that her answer is right there, right under her fucking nose, but she’s too dense and superficial to see it, which is the point of the Brienne theory.

“It’s there just to show that Brienne is taking Jaime away even though she’s ugly, but it has nothing to do with YMB.”

Yes, that is also the point. Again, an interpretation of a key message of the prophecy is that beauty isn’t literal, and beauty lies within. If we’re looking at the prophecy as a lesson to both the readers and Cersei, similar to The Witch in Beauty and the Beast - a tale and theme GRRM has been confirmed writing, then… why wouldn’t that be connected? “Brienne the Beauty” is literally the only character to challenge Cersei’s superficial perceptions, and the only one who has been set up to do so. In other words, for this particular theory, narcissism and superficiality drives Cersei’s downfall.

Also, I find it curious that instead of saying, “Lord Selwyn Tarth’s daughter, Lady Brienne” which would have been way more straightforward and which he could have easily done, GRRM instead used his other title, “the Evenstar’s daughter” which basically translates to, “the Princess.” A possible nod to the future Evenstar, the future symbolic (or even potentially literal) Queen, if Cersei and readers want to interpret the person as a Queen.

Reminder: that’s a fact. Not wishful thinking. Regardless of what Brienne is doing or where she is, she will literally inherit the title the Evenstar.

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- Brienne the Beauty -

BRIENNE IS AN INNER BEAUTY. This has been intentional and made crystal clear over and over. Brienne is the Beastly Beauty. A… beauty who gives a lesson by challenging Cersei’s perception of beauty and…. She is intentionally written as younger and….. she will have a title that’s a symbolic Queen and… her story is tied to Cersei’s lover? :O

Look, it’s no secret that one of GRRM’s favorite narratives is Beauty and the Beast. As mentioned above, he is writing an adaptation of Beauty and the Beast.

George R.R. Martin said what he wanted to do was to take the traditional format of Beauty and the Beast and change the roles — and also the genders. - Gwendoline Christie

[GRRM] also said that when he wrote the story of Jaime and Brienne, he was taking the formula of Beauty and the Beast and turning it on its head. He wanted to see what it was like for the man to be the beauty and the woman to be the beast and how that would play out. - Gwendoline Christie

I spoke to George R.R. Martin about this, and he said that it was always his intention with Jaime and Brienne to take the classic Beauty and the Beast story, and turn it on its head. Brienne is not ‘unconventionally attractive’, she’s ugly, and she’s ugly to society. She is the beast.- Gwendoline Christie

He’s taking the traditional format (a romance) and switching the genders and roles. The entire point of BatB is to destroy the idea that love and beauty are determined by superficial qualities.

Guys again, I’m so delusional. There is nothing to see here. None of this is from anything real.

“But that’s just for Jaime.”

There can be other characters in a Beauty and the Beast adaptation. It’s an adaptation, not word for word. Other characters can be used to deliver the message, especially if the character is uh… linked to and romantically involved with one of the BatB inspired characters. For example, in the Disney adaptation we have Gaston (who… now that I think about it, actually has a similar Cersei way of thinking, ngl lol).

Brienne is the one character who has the actual name of Beauty associated with her. She is Cersei’s opposite. Brienne is the epitome of what Cersei cannot understand. A theme explored through Cersei is beauty, which is a theme that’s heavily explored through Brienne as well. Brienne’s character has been shaped around rejection due to her appearance. Literally every page in her POV is about how ugly and undesirable she is. Therefore, it’s very possible their characters are connected by a shared beauty theme.

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- The Prophecy -

Okay, the rest of this stupid thing for YMB. Here we go.

”Will I wed the prince?” she asked.

“Never. You will wed the king.”

Beneath her golden curls, the girl’s face wrinkled up in puzzlement. For years after, she took those words to mean that she would marry Rhaegar until after his father Aerys had died.

GRRM straight up telling the readers that Cersei interprets this shit incorrectly.

”I will be queen, though?” asked the younger her.

“Aye.” Malice gleamed in Maggy’s yellow eyes. “Queen you shall be… until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear.

“But ginmo, -sigh-, Cersei doesn’t hold Jaime most dear. The thing she holds most dear is power.”

Is she not always jealous and bitter over how Jaime is born to be heir and she is not? Does Jaime not represent the Lannister legacy she craves? Does Ms. “my brother is worth a thousand of your men” not lose any amount of power if Jaime stops doing what she wants? Is Jaime’s identity shift not influenced by Brienne the Beauty? Where is Jaime in both books and show? Couldn’t Brienne’s influence on Jaime mean Cersei loses power, a lover, her legacy? Jaime is power.

And then, again, there is also the straightforward route with the Kingdom splitting up possibility and Brienne the Evenstar….

Then we get this perfect little nugget.

Anger flashed across the child’s face. “If she tries I will have my brother kill her.”

I WILL HAVE MY BROTHER KILL HER I’M DYING. This is something that is repeated TWICE. Here in the prophecy and later in the chapter when she’s talking to Qyburn about the prophecy.

”...another queen, who would take from me all I loved.”

“And you wish to forestall this prophecy?”

More than anything, she thought. Even in the tent. “If she tries I will have my brother kill her.”

This is another moment to apply my two rules. There is literally no point to this being thrown in there if Jaime is not connected to the YMB, and definitely no point to emphasize a second time that she’d have her brother kill her. The words are not, “I will have her killed,” which could have left it ambiguous and easily been done. No, she (which is GRRM) specifically uses “my brother will kill her.” The irony is that, JAIME IS IN LOVE WITH HER. HE’S IN LOVE WITH THE BEAUTY.

“No, the irony is that by that time Jaime won’t listen anymore to her.”

I mean, that’s possible obvioiusly, but… yawn? That has practically zero emotional weight attached to it. I personally lean more towards this being a massive hint, that Jaime is the LAST person to kill the YMB, because he lost his heart to her, which makes it so delicious and juicy. GRRM is essentially having a massive evil laughing fit.

Another small note, during the Maggy the Frog scene, after delivering the YMB message to Cersei, Melara asks if she’ll marry Jaime. When they leave, Cersei kills Melara for wishing to marry Jaime, which is GRRM telling the readers that Jaime most certainly represents something Cersei holds dear, or else she wouldn’t be killing her. It’s not a coincidence this was right after she learned about the YMB.

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- Cersei is her own downfall -

The more you try to avoid them, the more you are making them true

In the show Cersei is threatened by Dany as YMB (since it’s possible she incorrectly interpreted the prophecy, wow what a concept that’s not possible at all). This was made clear by the script notes. Apply my rules here as well.

But what’s the meaning of Cersei being taken down by a physical beauty? That just… proves her right? That would be the Lord dying in the literal castle? It just supports Cersei’s superficial world view by sending absolutely no message to her character? From a narrative standpoint, there’s no point to have YMB be a literal beauty. Again, is it possible he’s going the literal route? YES. But considering GRRM implements a ton of metaphor and symbolic meaning in his work, that he literally said he’s writing a BatB narrative so Beauty Within is definitely present, and he straight up said he doesn’t like his prophecies to be entirely literal, I’m going to at least have fun and entertain the non-surface level interpretation, and I’m therefore not delusional for doing so.

And since Cersei is bringing her own downfall, how would Dany even fit? Dany would have been going after that throne regardless of whoever’s ass was sitting on it. Dany’s pursuit of the throne has absolutely nothing to Cersei, and everything to do with what she believes is her right. My point is, if Cersei’s butt wasn’t there, Dany would still be doing exactly what she’s doing. So how is Dany taking the throne a consequence of Cersei bringing it upon herself? Cersei and Dany are completely separate from one another. Even if AU Cersei was nice to all of her allies and Jaime, Ned knew the identity of her children, and therefore a fractured Westeros would still exist. She wouldn’t have had enough men to fight off Dany. None of that really matters anyway, because Daenerys still would have converted Houses through the use of her dragons. In the show, it’s been made clear that she thinks it’s now Dany so...… going back to my points outlined above, if she thinks it’s Dany, maybe it’s possible she’s wrong.

You know the one character Cersei will NEVER see as a threat, due to her narcissistic inability? Brienne the Beauty.

(Also for show!Cersei, I love how fandom is like “Valonqar can’t be Tyrion because Cersei thinks it’s Tyrion” and then in the same breath they go, “DO YOU SEE? Cersei thinks Daenerys is the YMB so it’s Daenerys!”..................................................... Like I said, GRRM and D&D could be going that way, but to use that logic is just…… what)

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-Book Structure-

Hey did you guys know that there’s actually thought and technique that goes into the formatting and structure of a book, especially a book series? That the structure of chapters and the format aren’t just randomly thrown together? DEFINITELY apply my two rules here.

When was this prophecy introduced? AFFC, the book Cersei AND Brienne conveniently got a POV, the book that is mostly Jaime, Cersei, and Brienne centric. Who has a POV chapter immediately after Cersei’s prophecy? Brienne. Why is it structured this way? Was it random that the book was mostly a Lannister twin + Brienne book? No...

What can that possibly imply?

The main story running through each of those characters is the same. In other words, those three are connected to the same subplot - BatB- and are therefore connected through the same themes.

POSSIBLE? Yes.

DELUSIONAL? No.

Also my favorite. Look at this chapter ending. LOOK AT IT. Feel the dramatic pause. DO YOU CLAIM THIS IS RANDOM?

I dare you tell me that there is no thought that goes into a chapter end.

I dare you to tell me that the Cersei chapter following is meaningless, like the structure of a book doesn’t go through an editing process, that chapter ends aren’t significant and the structures aren’t another element in the story telling process.

I dare you to tell me that “Brienne the Beauty” weren’t words intentionally chosen by a professional author.

We first hear about “younger, more beautiful” in CERSEI III - AFFC, and then Brienne is referred to as, “Brienne the Beauty” shortly after in BRIENNE III - AFFC. The only other time Brienne's nickname of “Brienne the Beauty” was mentioned was when Catelyn made note of it. It wasn’t in ASOS when there were plenty of opportunities, and it only came up again (...four times) right after Cersei thinks about YMB for the first time.

yEAH GUYS, DElUSIOnAL, wHat IS naRraTive StrUcTuRe AnD pROfESsIONAL fOrMAtTiNG? nOt rEaL LMFAO bRiEnNe’s nOt pOsSIbLe aT aLL

#jaime x brienne #brienne of tarth #jaime lannister #younger more beautiful #ymb #maggy the frog #long post #morons were my muse

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nightqueendany · 5 years

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Leak Connections:

So I was just reading @adecila’s recent POST on her re-watch of the Friki leaks regarding Tyrion’s trial. I had just finished reading that post when I was made aware of the UPDATE to the FreeFolk 8x05 leaks page about Cleganebowl photos being “confirmation” of Mad!Dany.

And there are some things with both that I want to talk about that I noticed. These are in no particular order, under the cut.

1) Bran’s flashback. According to the old Friki leaks, Bran has a flashback (or maybe he just says the line) of Tyrion telling Catelyn back in his first ever trial from Season 1 (AGOT), “I never bet against my family.” Implying that Tyrion has been playing the long game and has been Team Cersei this entire time. Perhaps that’s not entirely what’s happened, but Friki claims this line will be used against Tyrion. Apparently GRRM’s book editor and the person who writes the comics also somehow support this information and that this line specifically was added to the comics of Book1 because it foreshadowed Tyrion’s end. So regardless of the “how”, Tyrion does betray everyone for his family.

2) Friki also claims that for sure we will get a scene (likely during the battle of King’s Landing) of people in front of a gate saying, “Open the gates.” Now, the “open the gates” lines and Tyrion’s betryal are not directly connected, as far as I can tell. It’s just speculation on Friki’s part. However, Friki says there is a scene with Jon, Davos, and Tyrion walking through the wreckage of King’s Landing at some point where Tyrion says the line, “What have I done?” So it could be possible Tyrion keeps gates closed in King’s Landing, or not. Still not sure what the connection here is but Tyrion apparently feels responsible for some of the destruction of the capital.

3) It appears two endings for Tyrion are possible however. Some leaks saying ‘Jon will kill Dany’ say Tyrion is still on trial and that Sansa has promised Tyrion they will rule together, only to betray him in the end to seize power for herself. Others just mention Tyrion’s trial with no details. Some have Tyrion freeing Jaime from Dany, Dany arresting him, and Tyrion somehow still being on trial with the Starks/Davos at the end. One has Tyrion listening for the surrender bells (that apparently set Dany off) but it’s not mentioned where Tyrion is, if he is with Jon and co or Dany or elsewhere. Also not said why bells signal surrender of Cersei’s armies). And others claim it’s not a trial at all, but a “Great Council” and Tyrion becomes one of Bran’s advisors because Bran becomes King.

All of these above “leakers” have some amount of credibility to the FreeFolk community but clearly, they can’t all be right. Someone has to be wrong or have partially incorrect information because much of that is contradictory.

So the Tyrion-Trial plot point in and of itself proves that there is false information floating around somewhere.

4) Arya during 8x05: Friki said that Arya is in King’s Landing when it goes up in flames and it’s possible the audience will think she’s dead by the end of 8x05 with all the destruction and what not. But, Friki also says that Arya is at Tyrion’s trial so in 8x06 we would see Arya escape. In the “Cleganebowl photo” “leaks”, something similar is mentioned. Arya is caught up in the destruction of the city and it looks like she’s dead. But then she gets up and leaves the city on a horse and this is possibly the end of 8x05, not somewhere in 8x06. So this seems likely. I’m guessing the leaks that say Arya is “useless” are referring to this because she doesn’t get to kill Cersei.

5) Highgarden. As we saw in last episode, Tyrion promises Bronn Highgarden. Friki says we see aerial shots of Highgarden. So this is perhaps why, because it now belongs to Bronn.

6) The 4Plebs leaks. I’ve noticed these circulating around the Jonerys fandom and investigated them myself. You can find the threads HERE. So the OP in this link gave us these spoilers:

“Tyrion fucking dies, because he betrays Jon and Dany. That is the "bitter" part of the ending. The Sweet part is Dany and Jon survive and rule together, riding off into the sunset on a dragon. No joke. That fucking Spanish bitch got it all right. I Hate myself for reading the spoilers even though I thought they were fanfics. Also, White Walkers are killed by episode 4 and main focus is Cersei.”

This was posted on 4/14, the day of the season premiere. Now, anon here says these leaks come from Friki but I don’t believe Friki has ever said Jon and Dany fly off on a dragon together. I feel like I have seen this leak elsewhere about Jon and Dany flying off on a dragon but I can’t remember where. Further down in this thread we see these posts:

They essentially make the same points about the latter half of the season: White Walkers are finished by 8x04 which is more or less correct, rest of the season is dedicated to defeating Cersei, Tyrion betrays Jon/Dany, with a few additional details in each - Jaime kills Cersei, Jon/Dany ride off into the sunset.

As far as I know, the first pic is the only one that outlines the ENTIRE season. All other leaks I have seen have only given details on one or two episodes at a time, aside from these two 1, 2, which both say Jon kills Dany. But even then, they include no details about the early episodes, just from 3/4 on. The pic above has every single episode, aside from Ep 1 which had just aired so that’s why it’s not included, and even then, the second link gets Dany and Cersei mixed up at first, initially saying Jon kills Cersei, not Dany.

7) Unsullied vs Lannisters. According to the Friki leaks mentioned on the Reddit master post, Friki said 7 months ago that there was, “Fake action scene between Unsullied and Lannister soldiers in the dragon pit as misdirection. Meant to deceive us and the action scene was never filmed.”

Many of the “Jon kills Dany” leaks mention the Unsullied fighting Lannister forces - the Lannisters start to surrender at the sound of “bells” but Grey Worm, either of his own volition or because he sees Dany continuing to burn the city, spears a Lannister who had surrendered and the fighting continues.

Now, I’ve pointed out before that this scenario already seemed odd for the simple reason that all these leaks keep saying “Lannister” and not “Golden Company” when the majority of Cersei’s forces should be the Golden Company. They’re the most featured in all the previews (and a Golden Company vs Unsullied fight has been pretty hyped).

There are shots in the 8x05 preview of men not in Golden Company uniform...but they’re not in Lannister uniform either:

These are the typical Lannister uniforms:

Everything about these guys outfits from 8x05 are different to the point where I don’t know who or what they are. They’re not Euron’s men. They’re not Golden Company men. And they’re not Lannisters, based on their outfits. But as they’re operating the scorpions in different locations of King’s Landing that have the Lannister lion on them (Euron’s scorpions look like a kraken), I guess they’re Lannisters? But regardless, they’re not ground troops. The Golden Company are the ground troops. The “Lannisters” seem to be either a) operating the scorpions or b) are archers on the castle walls as we saw in 8x04.

However, if Friki says the Unsullied vs Lannister stuff from the Dragonpit is fake, then perhaps this gives explanation to why many leaks mention it? If Friki is claiming HBO put out information to “misdirect” the audience - scenes that were never filmed - the Unsullied-attack-surrendering-Lannisters leaks could definitely be part of that.

8) One more thing I would like to point out is, aside from Friki’s leaks about 8x01, NO ONE has leaked details in their entirety. We keep getting small details: “Arya kills Night King”, “Jon kills Dany in throne room” “Tyrion betrays everyone”, etc. None of the information from the leaks seems to be connected in any way. We just have snippets of things.

And again, as I’ve pointed out twice above, it definitely appears that there are differing versions of things and HBO has put out false information at least potentially once. But if they’ve done it once, then what’s to say they haven’t done it more than that?

One source might have “Cleganebowl” pics, but if they haven’t seen the actual scene of Dany “going mad” or “Jon killing Dany” then it’s still in question as to whether those things actually happen. *Edit: FreeFolk also claims these leaks do not fit their particular standards for reliable leaks so take the Cleganebowl leaks with a grain of salt!:

Also, why would extras be present in a scene where Jon kills Dany? Why would anyone superfluous be present for shooting such a scene? Only key people would likely be there for this because it would be SUCH a huge spoiler.

Anyway, you guys can take all this with a grain of salt. I unfortunately don’t work for HBO so I have no sources and have yet to see the episodes. But these are just dots I’ve connected. Let me know what you think.

#got spoilers #got speculation #got leaks #friki leaks #game of thrones #Tyrion Lannister #jon snow #daenerys targaryen #grey worm

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ansheofthevalley · 5 years

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What do promos tell us? - Characters and their journeys

It’s been a couple of days since a new teaser dropped for s8

We also had this

Putting these two little teasers together, we get what will be one of the two major plots of the season: D@ny in Winterfell (which is, in its very nature, politically-driven)

A thing I want to point out: teasers like these ones (clips) are very malleable. People in editing can make it look like one thing before the season premieres, and then, it’s another thing entirely (I’m not talking about these teasers in particular, because the fandom, at least the part of fandom I interact with, was right in their theories and assumptions. I’m talking in general. Go watch the trailers for previous seasons, especially the early ones, they can be misleading, and that’s actually its purpose)

Ok, with that out of the way...

Given season 8 is the final season, it’s already established that we know these characters: their way of acting, of thinking, of approaching things.

For example:

We got the ones that are involved in the Big Game, the politicians/diplomats (Tyrion, Varys, Sansa, Cersei, Davos, Missandei)

We got the ones involved with prophecy/magical elements (D@ny, Jon, Bran, Melisandre, Night King)

We got the warriors (Jaime, Brienne, Arya, the Hound, Tormund, Beric and the Brotherhood, Gendry, Yara, the armies of men and the dead)

We got the loose canons (Euron and Bronn, though I really wish Bronn will somehow ride north with Jaime)

We got the unlikely heroes (Theon, Sam and Pod)

We got to a point where we know these characters’ traits and faults, we know what they’re good at and what their bad at.

But how were these characters introduced?

(I will focus on promotional pictures for this. This meta will focus on Jon and D@enrys, since they are two of the main players used to promote the series before it premiered)

So let’s start with Jon:

Jon Snow-Season 1

This is the first promo pic we had of Jon Snow. It has a quote of the oath of the Night’s Watch, instantly painting him, at the eyes of the audience, as a warrior, as a defender of men. It clearly contrast with the one for Cersei, which paints her at the eyes of the audience as a cunning, not-to-be-trusted politician

Now let’s go to Season 2:

After all that has happened in S1 (i.e: the political intrigue of the South), we see Jon is still tied to the Night’s Watch, still tied to his vows, as another part of the oath is quoted on his poster. His poster is apolitical, with no ties to all the political upheaval that Westeros is going through. He’s still a defender of men, a knight on a noble crusade. Only now, he will learn that there is more than one way to defend people. He will learn that information is as valuable as a sword when it comes to battle. It is from this season onward, that Jon will learn how to be a strategist. It is in the season 2 finale that he infiltrates the Wildling army under Qhorin’s command. No matter how things might seem, he’s still a sworn brother of the Night’s Watch, the watcher on the Wall, the sword in the darkness. His loyalty lies with them and this quote reminds us of that.

His ties with House Stark are severed, even though the fact that he’s the bastard of Winterfell is constantly brought up throughout the seasons. Let’s compare his poster to Robb’s:

Robb’s promo poster is political. He ended season 1 being crowned King in the North. The War of the Five Kings is at its genesis. But the Young Wolf is different from the other kings, he doesn’t want the Iron Throne, he goes to war to avenge his father and achieve northern independence. His quote is “the North remembers”; it’s a promise to the enemies of House Stark and the North. It instantly solidifies the conflict between the North and the South. There’s also another poster with the same line, made to represent House Stark/the North:

There’s also a Joffrey/House Lannister poster (I apologize in advance to all House Stark stans):

With this one. I’m so sorry, I apologize again, the audience gets the true nature of Joffrey, and also the behaviour of House Lannister overall, once Joffrey ascends as King. I’ll talk about the one for House Targaryen when I get to D@ny.

But let’s jump forward to season 6 (I make this jump because for season 3 and 4 it’s the same poster for all characters, nothing really distinctive about them):

Season 6 promos had the motif of the Hall of Faces, from the House of Black and White. At first sight, this promo poster doesn’t seem like much. I mean, it doesn’t have any quote on it that relates to the character so, what’s so special about it?

Well, in the GOT wiki, in the photo gallery for season 6, are all the teaser posters for the seasons, with a quote relating to the character’s journey up until this point. Jon’s quote is: "The long night is coming...and the dead come with it." Again, this quote keeps him tied to the Night’s Watch and their fight against the Night King. He’s still the knight on a noble crusade, only this time, he’s not part of the Night’s Watch, but he still has their fight against the Others as his top priority. He is the shield that guards the realms of men (a line he says to Beric in S7 during the wight hunt, mind you).

A side note: something I observed is the connection Jon’s quote has with the other Starks (sans Arya, since she’s training to become No One). It’s the first time a promotional teaser poster links him to the Starks. By making this connection, it’s clear that, when at first, his fealty was with the Night’s Watch, now it is with his House. What is the connection? The sense of loss and being at a low point. We all know it’s been that way for the Starks since season 1. The quotes from House Stark are the following:

"I've won every battle, but I'm losing this war." - Robb Stark

"If I'm going to die, let it happen while there's still some of me left." - Sansa Stark

"Anyone can be killed." - Arya Stark

"Show them how it feels to lose what they love." - Catelyn Stark

Season 7 was the same as seasons 3 and 4: same quote (a House Stark-related quote) for all the characters, with the tiny hint of the Night King. Nothing particularly special, but we could point out the use of a quote heavily related to House Stark “Winter is here” (a line said by Sansa to Jon in the season 6 finale, mind you) and the hint of the Night King in the eye of the characters, alluding to the fabled “Ice”, the Night King and his army of the dead. So I wouldn’t be so surprised if the promotional posters for season 8 contrast the ones from last season, alluding to the fabled “Fire”.

So, now let’s go with D@ny

D@enerys Targaryen-Season 1:

The first promo we get for D@ny establishes her as someone in completely different world from Westeros, a woman out of place, and she’s holding one of her dragon eggs. To add to it we have the quote “I do not have a gentle heart” (one said by her to Jorah). So this promo poster sets her as a, in lack of a better way to explain myself, a strong woman (ugh). We bear witness to the hardships D@ny has to face in season 1, but she faces them all and at the end comes up on top, with the birth of her dragons.

Now, let’s see season 2 D@ny:

The quote she is given for the season 2 poster is a way to introduce, little by little, the mentality of House Targaryen. So far, in season 1, we’ve learnt about the Targaryens like history, through the eyes and minds of other characters (Aegon the Conqueror, Mad King Aerys and Rhaegar during Robert’s Rebellion are the most notable), but we got to see glimmers of the Targaryens with Vyseris’ behavior and later D@enerys’. The birth of her dragons is a catalyst for her: she’s still Khaleesi, but we get to see more and more of the “dragon” in her.

youtube

It is in this season, we start to see D@enerys embrace her Targaryen roots.

Her promo poster is also very similar to Robb’s: its quote is also used to represent her House in the House Targaryen teaser poster

It heavily features fire: the small pyre, the dragon egg cracking, and the Targaryen sigil, the three-headed dragon. It represents the birth of the dragons, that we see at the season 1 finale, but it also represents the return of House Targaryen with D@ny and her three baby dragons. Let’s not forget the full quote “I will take what is mine with fire and blood”. From now on, D@ny is in a quest of power to get what she thinks was taken from her: the Iron Throne.

As I explained earlier, season 3 and 4 didn’t have posters that stood out individually, character wise.

So with that said, let’s jump to season 6:

As I explained with the Jon poster, at first glance, it would seem that the season 6 promo posters would be no different to those of previous seasons, that is until I looked up the pics in the GOT wiki and saw each one had a quote. D@ny’s quote was the following: "I will do what queens do. I will rule." By this point, she has her armies and is Queen of Meereen, she’s in a good place. But season 5 threw at her new hardships that tested her as a ruler and by the end of the season she ended fleeing the city atop Drogon. So, in season 6, we see D@ny readjust herself amongst the Dothraki in Vaes Dothrak, but later, when she murders all the Khals and the Dothraki see her as the “Unburnt”, she becomes their leader, gaining another army for her quest for the Throne. She deals with situation in Meereen quite swiftly (with the intervention of Tyrion, but it didn’t prevent her of going all Dracarys) and she gained new allies in Dorne and the Reach. So she ends the season with a long-awaited moment: sailing for Westeros.

Her quote is about power. Her goal, from the start, was to get back to Westeros and reclaim the Throne. She wants to rule, she seek that power. But, just as Jon’s quote connected him to the Starks’, does D@ny’s quote connect her to anybody else? If we concentrate on power, then yes, her quote connects to others:

"When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die. There is no middle ground." - Cersei Lannister

"Everyone is mine to torment." - Joffrey Baratheon

We have Cersei, who seeks to maintain power since the very beginning, and we also have Joffrey, who, as King, did what he pleased with his subjects (the little shit). But there’s another quote, but it doesn’t connect, rather it serves as contrast:

"I was never meant to rule." - Robert Baratheon

Here we have a Lord that went to war and won, thus making him the King and establishing a new dynasty. Everyone knew Robert was a great warrior, proven time and time again on the battlefield, but when the time came for him to lay down his warhammer and rule, he proved he wasn’t the man for the job. He was a warrior, not a ruler. And I think it’s the same with D@ny, she’s a great warrior, she has proven herself as a conqueror, but we’ve seen she’s not fit to rule. As Daario points out in season 6:

The difference between Robert and D@ny is that Robert was well aware of his inability to rule, whereas D@ny is uncapable to see her own faults as a ruler. Also, I find this parallel/contrast between Robert and D@ny super ironic.

D@ny is great in a battlefield, but she fails when she has to bring people together. She’s great when she has to set ships and armies ablaze (which is very cruel, because you know, death by fire sucks), but she fails when diplomacy is involved. Her tenure in Meereen is a big testament to that.

Sansa puts it better:

“Now, I’m sure cutting off heads is very satisfying, but that’s not the way you get people to work together”

In conclusion:

We get introduced to Jon as a guardian, as a protector. That image of him never goes, even after he leaves the Watch. His role in the story, overall, is the one of a defender, of a honorable knight that fights for a noble cause. From the start, he is the watcher in the Wall, the sword in the darkness, the shield that guards the realms of men. That’s his main goal: to protect people from the threat of the Night King. And throughout the seasons, we’ve seen him become not only a leader, but a strategist, someone that values information as much as he values an army.

On the other hand, we get introduced to D@ny as a woman out of place, but that quickly acquires power, and that’s her goal. Neither of these things really go away in her story, too: she is a woman out of place because she longs for home, and tries to find it anywhere she can. She acquires power very quickly and becomes a formidable force all on her own, but as her power rises, the more she embraces her Targaryen heritage. Her role in the story, overall, is one of a conqueror, just like her ancestor, a warrior. While there are some savior tropes (white savior tropes) in her storyline and she tries to do good for the ones that can’t defend themselves, her story is mainly driven by power. Her main goal never stops being the Iron Throne.

And also, they’re the last two Targaryen: one, a defender, the other, a conqueror. Their stories go in opposite directions. That’s the reason why in the last season, Jon and D@ny are going to clash. And it’s been spelled out for us from the start.

#how to tag #got #jon snow #anti targ restoration #anti jonerys #anti daenerys #got meta #game of thrones #game of thrones meta #jon snow meta #promo analysis #i don't think this is necessarily anti d #it's more of pointing out the obvious #but just in case #my meta #my stuff #i wanted to pass this to drafts but tumblr was being a bitch #i wanted to add a couple of things #so there you go

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jaimetheexplorer · 5 years

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PROBABILITY DISTORTION - Or why Jaime Lannister is less likely to die than you think (part 2)

Most of the popular clues hinting at Jaime’s potential death, come in the form of foreshadowing. There are three hints in particular that are always brought up, in no particular order: “Born together/die together”, the weirwood dream, and “in the arms of the woman I love”. Let’s look at each one of these.

Born together, die together

Jaime (ASOS): “I cannot die while Cersei lives. We will die together as we were born together.”

Cersei (AFFC): “We will leave this world together, as we once came into it.”

This is seen by many as proof that the twins will die together (and is the origin of the “valonqar corollary”, where Jaime is the valonqar and will therefore kill himself after, even though no such thing is mentioned in the prophecy). But in 2011, GRRM had this to say about it:

“There’s an element of sociopathy to it, where it’s the two of us and no one else really counts, especially outside their family. They’re twins, they were born together, they have a feeling that they’re going to die together. There’s this bonding that they’re two halves of a whole, so who else would they pair with? Anything else is lesser.” (GRRM)

There’s a lot to unpack in his statement, but I want to focus on two things: “they have a feeling that they’re going to die together” and “they’re two halves of a whole, so who else would they pair with? Anything else is lesser.”

GRRM is careful to specify that that’s a feeling they have, it’s not a truth. He might obviously be avoiding spoilers, but I think there’s more to it than that, in the sense that he is using that belief of theirs as an example of the level of unhealthy obsession and delusion in their relationship. This is the point at which their story begins; the point at which they buy into this notion that they’re two halves of a whole and the only ones who matter. I already discussed in part 1 about narrative arcs, how perhaps the main part of Jaime and Cersei’s story is about discovering that they’re not two halves of a whole, and set off on opposite journeys. Indeed, Jaime’s quote comes from early on in his POV, before he returns to King’s Landing and his disillusion with Cersei begins to set in. And GRRM is indeed raising a question that will be addressed later, as their story unfolds: “who else would they pair with?”. Of course, at the beginning of their story, the answer is nobody because “anything else is lesser”, but will that still be the answer in the future? (6’3” hint - probably not).

As the story progresses, the two become disenchanted with the other, with some symbolism thrown in for good measure (such as Jaime losing the hand he was born holding Cersei’s foot with, or the wind in his hair being compared to a generic woman’s fingers, instead of Cersei’s like pre-rift), until Jaime burns the letter Cersei sent to ask him to be her champion in her trial by combat; i.e. win for her or die with her (see this Reddit post for a nice comparison between Jaime and Cersei’s belief they will die together).

With that gesture, Jaime essentially refuses to go die with her and abandons her to her own fate, therefore rejecting the belief they must die together (he later even thinks that he “guesses he might have to face her, if she’s not dead already”). In 2014, when asked about how he was planning to deal with them in the future, GRRM said:

“Well, as for the books, I have two more to write. I’m certainly going to be dealing with Jaime. Jaime and Cersei’s relationship is in a very different place in the books than the show has reached now. They are effectively estranged now.” GRRM sees this moment as their estrangement.” (GRRM)

Note how back then George said just how far Jaime and Cersei’s relationship had “reached” in the show, compared to the books, implying the show still needs to get there. Fast-forward to 2017, and the final thread of tv!Jaime and Cersei’s relationship snaps as well. Jaime heads north to fight for the living, leaving her to her own fate in King’s Landing, a snowflake melting on his glove in the same way it melts in the books, signaling the arrival of winter (it’s also interesting that the show has omitted these lines, changing them instead for “We were born together, we belong together”).

Could their “feeling” that they will die together turn out to be true regardless of their journey, even if it means dying at the same time, miles away from the other? Maybe. But foreshadowing often exist to foreshadow the *opposite* of what is stated, and this is especially true when it comes to a character’s own beliefs. This is another important feature of the POV structure. Characters can be unreliable narrators, telling us about feelings they’re still confused about, which are not clear to them, or convinced of things that are not true. The most glaring example of unreliable narrator, without straying too far into other POV’s, is Cersei herself. For example, in ADWD, when she’s confronted with the fact that Jaime has gone MIA in the Riverlands with Brienne, Cersei’s reaction is to dismiss the news as impossible:

“Jaime would never abandon me for such a creature. My raven never reached him, elsewise he would have come”.

But we, as readers, know that Jaime did receive her letter, burned it and set off with Brienne. Cersei is wrong in her beliefs. This type of unreliable narration can also be at play with regards to beliefs the characters have about their future, such as Jaime bitterly thinking he is “a warrior, and that’s all he’ll ever be” (err, no; we know GRRM does not have that planned for him), or when he thinks about how much he’d rather be dead than a cripple (and then he gets his hand chopped off and has to live with it).

Given their journey, and the way their bond is, in many ways severed, as things stand, and that those quotes reflect a feeling Jaime and Cersei have at the stage of their relationship where their delusion and obsession was strong, I think it’s very possible this is one of those hints that foreshadows the opposite turn of events.

The weirwood dream (a.k.a. “I dreamed of you”)

"The flames will burn so long as you live," he heard Cersei call. "When they die, so must you."

[…] The fires that ran along the blade were guttering out, and Jaime remembered what Cersei had said. No. Terror closed a hand about his throat. Then his sword went dark, and only Brienne's burned, as the ghosts came rushing in.

"No," he said, "no, no, no. Nooooooooo!"

The weirwood dream is another fan favorite when it comes to predicting Jaime’s death. I once wrote a long post analysing this dream, and I might rewrite one for the blog, but I’ll try to stick to the basics here. The dream is clearly prophetic since many of the things in it do actually happen later on, and the fact that Jaime has it as he sleeps resting against a weirwood stump suggests there might be some magical intervention at work. Many think that this foreshadows Jaime dying in battle against the Army of the Dead, since Jaime and Brienne here are facing dead people “armoured in snow”. But I think there’s much more at work here. What I think George might be doing is to deliberately get people, throughout the early part of the dream, to focus repeatedly on the association between light = life and lack of light = death, so that when Jaime's sword dies out, the reader's brain is primed to think "He's dying". In many ways, this is no different than those tricks where you ask someone to repeat "fork" fifteen times and then ask them "what do you eat soup with?" and they say "fork".

But a key aspect of the dream is the thing that constantly gets ignored: Brienne’s presence. Brienne is standing by Jaime’s side, wielding her own flaming sword and repeating “I swore an oath to keep you safe”. Once Jaime's light goes out, hers is still burning (and Jaime at that point is still alive: he’s screaming “No” over and over).

When you think about the fact that protection (and fear of failure at that) is one of the biggest themes in Brienne’s arc, and the many lines and dreams in books and show that seem to draw a connection between Brienne and protecting Jaime from death (“Who wants to die defending a Lannister?”, “You can’t die. You need to live.” , “she saw that the dying king was not Renly after all but Jaime Lannister, and she had failed him”, “Nothing is more hateful than failing to protect the one you love”), the fact that she’s meant to be his protector is a relative no-brainer. Jaime even tells Qyburn as much, earlier in the books. And I think her presence in the dream represents just that. Cersei talks about the flames in the plural sense. There is no explicit, direct connection between one specific flame and one specific life, nothing to suggest that Brienne's flame isn't enough to keep both of them alive. And the dream is a reminder that Brienne would do everything in her power to protect Jaime.

Brienne: "Ser Jaime? I am grateful, but . . . you were well away. Why come back?"

Jaime: "I dreamed of you."

The dream, in the books, is what spurs Jaime into going back to Harennhall and save Brienne from the bear (who is foreshadowed in the dream itself). Why would a prophetic dream, most likely due to magic, where Brienne is defending him from ghosts with her flaming sword, be the catalyst for Jaime to run back to Harrenhall and save Brienne’s life? My money is on the fact that it’s because it foreshadows Brienne protecting him from death when they’ll end up facing the Army of the Dead in the future, with their twin swords. Had Jaime had not gone back to get her from that bearpit, she would have died, he will have nobody to protect him and die himself. Why exactly the magical intervention was needed to keep them alive, remains to be seen (someone should ask Bran, I think he might have a hand in this).

We don’t have the dream in the show, but the show has used Olenna in a similar way. If the weirwood dream suggests that if Jaime doesn’t go save Brienne, he will be fucked in the future because she’s going to be the only light that protects him after his family has abandoned him, Olenna’s line in the show is the mirror image of the weirwood dream, suggesting to Jaime that if he doesn’t leave Cersei, she will be the end of him. And, at the end of S7, he chooses to do the right thing, live her and fight for the leaving.

In the arms of the woman I love

Bronn: “How do you want to go?”

Jaime: “In the arms of the woman I love.”

Lately, this S5 conversation between Bronn and Jaime is the greatest hit of foreshadowing. You’ll find it literally everywhere, from Reddit to Twitter to YouTube. Debates continue over whether the woman in question will be Cersei or Brienne (some suggest it’s Brienne, because Brienne held Renly in her arms as he died - re-read part 1 about Brienne’s arc to see what I think of that), but the general consensus is that this is foreshadowing that he will die. Like with any line that is taken as foreshadowing, we can’t know for sure until the end, but I argue that people might be missing the forest for the trees in this case. I think the debate over which woman it might be is much more important than that line itself. Indeed, people always ignore the last line of that dialogue:

Bronn: “Does she want the same thing?”

This stumps Jaime and ends the scene, leaving the audience with all sorts of questions: is he stumped because he’s thinking about whether Cersei would want that? Or because he’s thinking about whether the woman he loves now is still Cersei or Brienne (it’s no coincidence this is the same episode where shortly before this scene they inserted a totally gratuitous scene of Jaime gazing longingly at Tarth)? Or because he is thinking about how the answer might change depending on the woman? Or because he’s thinking whether they would want to die in his arms? We are meant to make our own assumptions as to what goes on in Jaime’s mind at this moment - Nikolaj himself said as much in a tweet to a fan asking him whether Jaime was thinking of Brienne or Cersei. That, I would argue, is the whole point of the scene. To stump the audience just as much as Jaime and raise these questions.

Furthermore, even if it is foreshadowing his death, it doesn’t specify anything about the circumstances. It could be in battle (which I have already discussed the likelihood of), it could be murder at Cersei’s hands to fulfill their “born together/die together” foreshadowing (which I have already discussed the likelihood of), or it could be as an old man in his castle (which, interestingly, is what Bronn suggests - albeit in his usual crass way).

And since we are in Bronn’s company, I want to bring up another exchange the two have in S7 that is almost never mentioned in terms of foreshadowing. Right after Bronn saves Jaime from being roasted by Drogon, he says:

“Until I get my castle, nobody gets to kill you. You don’t get to kill you. Only I get to kill you.”

Which suggests that, unless Bronn suddenly sells out to the other side and assassinates Jaime (which is unlikely, given that I doubt a main POV character like Jaime is going end his story being betrayed and assassinated by a minor character he barely interacts with in the books), and for as long as Bronn is alive, Jaime just found himself another protector.

So, in conclusion, yes. If we analyse narrative arcs, foreshadowing and GRRM’s style (see part 3), foreshadowing is where we find the strongest case for Jaime’s death, out of the three. However, even then, the case isn’t THAT strong, when you dig deeper into the text and take into account how the foreshadowing fits or contradicts the overall arcs and themes we find in Jaime’s story and that of his two ladies.

Up next in part 3, a look at GRRM’s writing style.

#jaime lannister #jaime lannister meta #game of thrones meta #asoiaf meta #asoiaf #game of thrones #my meta #essay

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thebuckybarnessoldier · 5 years

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Thoughts on 8x05

I never thought my first Tumblr post in like 200 years would be about Game of Thrones of all shows, but here I am. I just have so many thoughts about this episode that I have been marinading in over the last day and I need to express them ughhh.

1. I saw this suggestion on Reddit and tbh I 100% agree with it - Davos should have been the one running through King’s Landing instead of Arya. At the very least, if they so badly wanted to set up Arya to kill Daenerys, have Davos encounter her, then get split up again and then focus on her. It creates more suspense to have Ser “I’ve never been much of a fighter” Davos in there, rather than Arya, who - let’s face it - has pretty much been guaranteed to survive, if ever there was such a thing in this show. And Davos was from Flea Bottom, can you imagine the emotional impact? (Also Liam Cunningham would have some good material to show his acting chops for the first time in seasons)

2. Speaking of emotional impact...Daenerys has never ever expressed any kind of emotional connection to the Red Keep? I’m not gonna discuss whether or not she should have become mad at all, because honestly it seems like their minds were completely set on it. But even so it could’ve and should’ve been done better. The way it was done was so RANDOM. If I recall, Daenerys has never held any sentiment towards the Red Keep or the fact that it was built by her ancestors. Why would seeing it be her trigger? (PS...D&D...if you had to tell us that reasoning in the aftershow...you didn’t do ya damn job. Show don’t tell????? Aka the first lesson of Writing 101?????) It would’ve made far more sense for Rhaegal to have been just injured at Dragonstone, then died at KL. Then Daenerys could have snapped at the sight of her child’s body, rather than the Red Keep.

3. Or even better, flesh out her entire “descent” a bit more. When she’s locked in her room after Missandei dies, show that. There’s a great still going around of her in that no makeup, dark circles and totally haggard state. I think the photo is brilliant, Emilia really gets across that this is a very shattered Dany, but how much time did it get in the show? A few seconds? Emilia did such a great job in the scene while the bells were ringing, they should’ve given her a similar scene alone in her room, and let Emilia do what she does and portray that Dany might actually cross some serious lines.

Maybe don’t have her burn all of King’s Landing the day of the battle. Maybe she just goes for the Red Keep - killing Cersei and all her human shields. Maybe even a little spillover into the streets. Something that was, technically, planned for, but dark enough to kickstart their Mad Queen thing and cause turmoil for Jon, Tyrion et al. Then, in the aftermath, amongst her remaining advisors or even walking through the city streets, show Dany’s increasing paranoia like in the dining hall scene of 8x04. Have her grow increasingly suspicious of rebellions. Then she still enacts the writers’ whole Mad Queen burning down KL plot, but so much less random and rushed. And yes, it WAS rushed. Being ruthless towards her enemies and acknowledging she acknowledging she could have to take cities with fire and blood during war, IS NOT the same as violating a surrender and killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people who wouldn’t be able to do a thing against her. It’s like she went from being a bit fond of tequila, to getting meth-ed up on the daily, within the space of 1 week.

4. “It’s supposed to be random and rushed!” they cry. “That’s the point! There’s no logic to her madness, that’s what makes it mad!” NAH. Big nope. I can’t remember if it was discussed in the show, but my understanding was that not even the Mad King just woke up and snapped one day. He started out as a decent enough king, but grew increasingly paranoid and fearful. And since everyone is justifying Dany’s madness by saying “her father was mad too! It’s in her genes!” then I think at least do a similar arc. In fact Dany’s madness would still be pretty rushed compared to Aerys, who was commonly known as mad for years but was still kinda tolerated until burning-the-Starks-alive happened.

5. Jaime. Fricking. Lannister. What a mess. What a mess. Back when I first started watching GoT, one of the first interviews I watched had of one of the show runners or writers or someone (it was years ago okay I’m sorry I can’t remember) was asked why they thought people liked the show so much. Their answer went along the lines of: “Westeros is a world undergoing huge changes and upheaval, a bit like our own world, and I think people l really relate to that.” Ok, so the place Westeros isn’t the same as the characters living in it, but come on - you’re really gonna undercut your own self-professed basis of the show by having a hugely redeemed character suddenly regress to what he was in the beginning? You really did that? For what? Shock value? To be edgy edgelords? Jamie just spent 8x04 talking down Bronn from killing him on Cersei’s orders. He’s really gonna have no problem with that? I get that they want their show to be “not like other shows”. But at the end of the day, it IS a show, they are telling a story. And Jaime’s choice did not fit in narratively.

#game of thrones spoilers #got spoilers #game of thrones #got #the bells #got 8x05 #game of thrones 8x05

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valaenarhaegarovna · 6 years

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Melt me away: Chapter 17

Previous chapter

Melt me away

Master List

AO3

Ko-fi

Notes: And here we are! Another chapter for our Dragon Prince! As I have said before, what happens with the Targaryens is important to the story, so sometimes we will have chapters that happen far away from our main couple. Next chapter will be Jaime’s and then we will return with Ned. Just a warning: This story is not for Rhaegar haters. He is not evil here.

Rhaegar's head was throbbing.

He was so tired of dealing with his father’s small council. Those men clearly hated the Crown Prince, for he, unlike his father, paid close attention to every single expense, giving them no room for stealing the crown’s treasure.

“The birth of your heir is approaching, Prince Rhaegar.” The Master of coin, Lord Qarlton Chelsted, caught his attention. “Dragonstone’s maester said it won’t take more than a moon. I suggest we plan a Tourney or a Fair after the babe is born.”

“I am not sure of this, my lords.” Rhaegar couldn’t believe they had dragged him out of Dragonstone just for that. “After the storm destroyed a good amount of our crops, I think we should focus on buying more food rather than making silly festivities.”

Tywin’s face soured. The old lion considered the birth of his grandchild, a royal prince or princess with Lannister blood, to be the greatest event of the year. The festivity was most likely his idea, but he ordered someone else to say it instead. Rhaegar found that scenario very likely.

“Can’t we just ask the Reach for it?” Lucerys Velaryon spoke for the first time. “House Tyrell owns House Targaryen everything they have, and Mace is not the smartest man.”

“Lord Tyrell is married to Alerie Hightower, my lord.” The spider cut. “He was one of those who took offense in Lady Lyra’s ill-treatment. The Tyrells will claim that they need a lot of grain and that they cannot just give it to the Crown without some kind of payment.” Rhaegar was surprised to see the spider on his side. “Prince Rhaegar is right, we cannot afford any festivities at the moment.”

“We could ask the Iron Bank for a loan.” Lord Symund Staunton suggested.

“If the Crown fails to pay it back, it could be the end of the Targaryen Dynasty.” Rhaegar held the urge to snap at the man. “I prefer to avoid the Braavosi.”

All of them started to talk at the same time, suggesting many ideas so that the stupid tourney could take place. Rhaegar had no wish for such thing. He needed to save gold to the Tourney at Harrenhal he and his allies were planning. Besides, he felt that celebrating so soon after Elize’s death was distasteful, his wedding to Cersei had been enough.

“All of you seem to have forgotten that Princess Cersei is my daughter.” Tywin finally spoke, catching the room’s attention. “I have no problem in paying for the tourney myself.” His cold green eyes found Rhaegar’s Indigo ones. “The Crown would only need to repay half of its cost.”

Tywin was good.

“It would surely ease the Crown’s burden.” Lord Qarlton agreed, scratching his chin. “His Grace would like not having to pay the full price, we just need to plan everything before asking for his seal.”

“You forgot to ask my opinion on the matter, Lord Qarlton.” He interrupted the master of coin, his voice hard as steel. “It is my child you are talking about.”

“A royal prince or princess.” Pycelle raised his finger. “The King is the one to decide on such matters.”

Rhaegar’s patience was coming to its end. Those men were nothing but Tywin’s puppets. The Dragon Prince remembered how all of them were trying to get rid of the old lion prior to his wedding to Cersei. Now that the man was the future queen’s father, they were all liking his boots. Rhaegar’s blood boiled.

“If it is my father’s decision...” Rhaegar had given up, the council had ruined his mood. The dragon was awake. “Why did you summon me from Dragonstone, taking me away from my pregnant wife?” He saw Lord Symund squirm. “To inform me of things that could easily be informed by raven? You insult me, my lords.” He stood up and all the council did the same, except Pycelle, for his age, and Tywin, who eyed him darkly. “Make a tourney, if it suits you, but my family will not attend.”

Ser Gerold, who had been silent during the entire meeting, followed his prince through the door, staying on a respectful distance. They both walked in silence. Rhaegar was furious, something rare to see, something scary. His soft features were contorted in such anger that some could mistake him for someone else. Those who had known King Aerys would be able to finally see a similarity between father and son. They had the same face when they were angry.

Instead of returning straight to his chambers, he decided to see his lady mother. Nothing helped him calm down like Queen Rhaella. He knew that his father had not burned people that day, so His Grace probably left his wife alone. Rhaegar reached the door of his mother’s chambers, and the presence of only Ser Oswell told him his father indeed let Rhaella enjoy her day.

“Ser Oswell, please inform my mother that I have arrived.” When Oswell went inside, he turned to Ser Gerold. “Ser, please find Arthur and send him here, you ought to rest.”

“Of course, my Prince.” The Lord Commander lowered his head before leaving.

Just after Ser Gerold left, the door to his mother’s chamber opened, but neither Ser Oswell or his mother came out.

“Rhaegar!”

It was Viserys.

“Viserys.” He smiled at his younger brother, taking him into his arms. “How are you?”

“Mother was telling a story!” The little prince was radiant, a big smile on his small face. “But now that you are here, you can read something about dragons for me, right?”

“Later, Viserys.” He answered softly and the boy pouted. “I came to spend some time with mother before going back to your little niece or nephew.”

“Will you bring them here?”

“Maybe, Vis. Maybe.” His mother’s sweet voice grabbed Rhaegar’s attention. “They need to be born first.” She took her younger son from Rhaegar’s arms.

“Mother, I have missed you.” He murmured, knowing that she had listened by the big smile she gave him. “How have you been?”

“As good as I can.” She sat on the big chair near the fireplace, Viserys sitting on her lap with his wooden dragon. “Your departure to Dragonstone broke my heart, my son.” She told him sweetly. “But I understand why you did it.”

Rhaegar left for Dragonstone right after he learned that Cersei was with child, he wished to stay away from Aerys, that had started to see Joanna in her daughter. Rhaegar did not want his father harassing his wife, so he took her and her ladies to Dragonstone as soon as he had a good motive for it. The lioness pregnancy was going well, and Rhaegar wished he had stayed with his wife.

“How is Cersei treating you?”

Cersei was the perfect wife a Lord or a Prince could ask for. She was beautiful, gracious and receptive. More than receptive. Cersei was the one that went to his chambers or his solar in search of sex. After getting her with child, Rhaegar had stopped visiting her, his heart still full of melancholy for Elize’s death. But while her belly hadn’t started showing, Cersei would always search him. Sometimes he would grant her wish, but he always left after she fell asleep. He had so much to plan...

“She is a good wife.” It was all he managed to say.

“Yet you don’t feel yourself growing fond of her.” Rhaella finished what he could not say.

“I don’t like Cersei.” Viserys mumbled. “She never pays attention to me.”

Rhaegar eyed his brother, wondering if Viserys dislike for his wife had any credit. It was true that she had no obligation of liking all of his family, – he wouldn’t force her to like Aerys – but he did notice that she held no affection for the younger prince. Rhaegar thought that maybe it was because some people could use Viserys to threaten their future children, and he understood her fears. It just didn’t sit well with him, to see her ignore his younger brother.

“She may remind me of Joanna in looks, but they are very different.” The Queen took him away from his thoughts. “Joanna was kind and way more intelligent than she would let people know.” His mother remembered her old friend with a big smile on her face. It warmed Rhaegar’s heart. “Cersei has no such kindness in her.”

Rhaegar had wanted to say something in defense of his wife, but he couldn’t find anything to say. He would be lying if he said there wasn’t something missing in their interactions. She searched for him, yes, but only for sex or to show him around her ladies. They never truly talked. They would have supper together and the Prince would try to engage in conversation, but she would complain about how she missed court and what she would do once she became Queen. Sometimes the Dragon Prince just wanted to forget her burdens, but she never allowed him to. By the end, they would end in his bed, and he would leave once she fell asleep. We never wake up together.

“You drifted off again, Rhaegar.” Rhaella called him off his mind again.

“I am sorry mother.” He said instantly.

“You have always been like this.” She smiles at him again, waving her hand and dismissing the issue. “You just need to remember-

The door busted open, making Viserys jump and cling on the Queen’s neck. Rhaegar didn’t need to turn around to know who it was.

“Boy!” The King snarled at him. “What are you doing here?”

“I am only visiting mother and Viserys, Your Grace.” Rhaegar stood to face his father.

The Mad King was followed by Ser Barristan and by Ser Jonothor. Both knights seemed worried about the situation, and Rhaegar couldn’t blame them for it. Everyone on the Red Keep knew how Rhaegar felt about the way the King treated Rhaella.

“He was just living, my love.” Rhaella said with a calmness that didn’t reach her eyes. “Take Viserys to his chambers, will you?” She tried to pass him the younger Targaryen, but he wouldn’t let go of her neck. “Vis, you need to go with Rhaegar...”

“Let go of him, your stupid woman!” The King roared. “If he doesn’t leave, he will watch!”

Rhaegar’s body tensed and he stared at his father, clenching his fists. The King hadn’t noticed the change in his son’s stance, but the Queen did. She grabbed his forearm tightly, making his wrathful eyes focus on her.

“Take Viserys and go.” Her voice was barely more than a whisper. “Please.”

He took some time to nod in agreement. He didn’t wish to leave her to face Aerys, but what could he do? Rhaegar managed to forcefully take Viserys, who was on the verge of a tantrum that would enrage their father even more. The King barked at them, ordering them to leave. Rhaegar hesitated by the door, turning to look at his mother. She nodded, and he left, cursing under his breath.

Arthur was waiting for him outside, his purple eyes full with pity, but Rhaegar wasn’t in the mood for any gentle words from his friend. He just started walking, Viserys safe in his arms. He wanted to get them away before their mother started crying. They reached the young prince’s chambers and Arthur opened the door for them, remaining outside as they went in.

“Will you stay until I sleep?” His brother asked when Rhaegar manage to get the boy to let go of him.

“Yes, I will stay.” He said gently, taking a seat in a very comfortable armchair. “I promise I won’t leave until you are asleep.”

Viserys nodded and laid down, tucking his head under the pillow.

Rhaegar stared at his brother’s small and terrified frame. He just wished winter would end so that he could set his plan in motion. He couldn’t start a war to dethrone his father in the middle of winter.

Everything was ready. He just needed spring to come and then the tourney on Harrenhal could take place for him to gather all the lords and secure their support. It would be over. Rhaegar would strip his father of his title and send him to the wall. It would be good to keep him close, but Aerys had supporters and Rhaegar’s position would only be fully secured if his father lost the privilege of stating his claim on the throne. Maester Aemon had received his raven and had promised to talk to the Lord Commander about it once the time came.

After his father was dealt with, Rhaegar could fully focus on his Prince.

He closed his eyes, feeling sleep take over his body.

He was dreaming, Rhaegar was sure of that.

He knew of no meadow of roses, and yet there he was, in the middle of hundreds and hundreds of red roses. Their sweet scent filling the air. He walked around the meadow, appreciating the view and the calm aura of it. He longed for such peace.

Then there was something different.

Not exactly a different smell, although it had something different in the air. Rhaegar felt a pull. He looked around in search of something unusual, but he could only see red. The Prince followed that urge, moving carefully not to step on the flowers. He walked for a long time, following the urge while doubting its existence, for he could not see anything different than the rest.

Still, he kept going and soon a hill covered in the snow came into view. Rhaegar had never seen so much snow in his life. Could this be the North? He walked up the hill, his feet sinking in the snow as he moved. It can’t be the North. He told himself after half of the journey to the top. Roses don’t grow in the North. He reached the hill’s top and stopped abruptly.

There was a rose.

A winter rose.

That was what he had been following. But why? Why would he follow the calling of a blue flower? What was so special about it? He knelt in front of it, reaching for the rose with care. The petals were cold, hurting his fingers. It’s a winter rose. Ice. He went to pick it up but ended up hissing in pain. He cut himself in one of its thorns. He took the injured finger into his mouth, his face twisting in pain. It hurt way more than expected.

‘You are not very smart, despite what people say.’ A sweet voice giggled behind him, but when he turned, he saw nothing. ‘I will have to teach you again, won’t I?’ The world around him changed and he saw himself in the middle of a forest. ‘Hurry!’

He wanted to ask who she was, but he couldn’t even open his mouth. Rhaegar could do nothing but follow. As he walked, he tried to find out where he was. He knew the kingswood very well and the place where he was looked nothing like that.

‘Why are you so slow today, Rhaegar?’ The voice chuckled again, guiding him through the trees.

Again, he couldn’t answer, but he moved faster towards the voice, almost running. She kept talking and it seemed that he was finally reaching her; but as he came closer, some unusual things caught his attention on the forest floor. First, it was a wooden lizard-lion being attacked by knights; then he found a shield resting against a tree, a mismatched armor in front of it.

‘Where are you?’ The voice called again. ‘I am waiting.’

His focus returned to her and he kept going. He was approaching the end of the forest, and a dreadful feeling took over his heart; there was something in the forest that didn’t like his presence, he wasn’t welcome there. Not yet, at least. Rhaegar arrived in a meadow, the woman he had been following was a few steps ahead, with her back turned to him.

She was small, much shorter than the Prince. Her long dark hair reaching just above her waist. He took a few steps in her direction before noticing the enormous weirwood the woman was staring at. It was a terrifying sight. The heart tree was so big that Rhaegar was sure that the girl could fit inside its open mouth.

‘You are drifting off again.’

‘I am sorry, my lady.’ It came out naturally like it always did with his mother.

She didn’t say anything, nor did she turn to face him. It drove him mad. Rhaegar wanted to see her face. On the ground behind her, it laid a crown of winter roses, blue as frost. He picked it up carefully, remembering how he had cut his finger earlier, and stared at it for a long minute before doing what he thought she was expecting him to do: put the crown on her head.

Even so, she didn’t turn. She remained still, silent. It bothered the Dragon Prince. He wanted answers, he wanted to know what all of that meant. His hand met the skin of her shoulder – cold – and he tried to turn her to him gently.

A deep growl came from the weirwood.

Rhaegar jumped away from the woman, staring at the tree’s colossal mouth as a huge white wolf came out of it, baring its knife-like teeth. As the Targaryen prince stared at the beast’s red eyes, he could hear a faint voice on his head.

Not yet.

‘When?’ He managed to say, too scared to move.

Soon.

He woke up with Arthur calling his name.

Rhaegar was back at Viserys’ room, resting on that same armchair. The sun was already rising and he felt sore. He shouldn’t have fallen asleep there. Still, he was glad he did. That dream... wasn’t a normal one, it meant something and he needed to know what it was trying to tell him.

The weirwood. It has something to do with the Old Gods. But what is it?

He needed to know.

“Rhaegar!” Arthur hissed. “Are you listening?”

His eyes focused on his friend, noticing his presence.

“Arthur...” The Prince whispered, getting up from his chair. “What is the matter?”

“A raven arrived from Dragonstone, Princess Cersei has gone into labor.”

Notes: And Cersei’s baby is coming! Is it a boy or a girl? Any guess?

Next Chapter

#Rhaegar Targaryen #Lyanna Stark #rhaegar x lyanna #rhaegar x cersei #rhaella targaryen #queen rhaella #ASoIaF #Arthur Dayne #asoiaf fanfiction #melt me away

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therevolutionhasbegun · 7 years

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'The Spoils of War' Reaction Post

The best episode of Season 7 so far. I'm hoping most people have seen it, but either way, spoilers underneath the cut. :)

1. Cersei recovering belongings? When speaking with the gentleman from the Iron Bank, he mentions something about a group of people (I think?) who are good at pressuring people/recovering people's debts, to which Cersei replies there are a few things that belong to her that she will need help recovering too. I'm really curious as to what those belongings are. Are they people that have wronged her? The North itself? Other rebelling kingdoms? Or actual tangible items themselves?

2. Littlefinger/Bran So we all know to be wary of Littlefinger by now whenever he is around. What was there for him to gain by giving the dagger to Bran? Perhaps nothing, but I think what he is trying to do is act as kind and helpful as he can around the Stark kids to gain their trust, and then manipulate that trust whenever it suits his ambitions.

3. Bran/Meera Up until this point, I was pretty pissed at Bran for being so emotionless and cold. But now, I understand why. Being able to see everything and anything, relive anybody's memories, be anywhere at any time...Bran really is not Bran anymore. There is no Brandon Stark anymore, just a vessel that sees, and knows, everything. I know if it were me, I wouldn't feel like a person anymore. I would probably feel just as dead inside, too. And so my heart goes out to both him and Meera, for all that they've seen and all that they have been through, with no real happy resolution at the end of it all.

4. Arya/Sansa My inner happily-ever-after persona really wanted to see a tearful, joyous, emotional reunion between Arya and Sansa. It was the reunion that I was anticipating the most. So I was a little disappointed by the stiff and somewhat awkward reunion that was presented. But in all honesty, it made sense. Sansa and Arya were never close; they even borderline loathed each other. Being apart for so long and all the horrible ordeals they both had to go through was what fueled any type of fondness that was displayed between them. Either way, I was happy to see them together again after so long.

5. Daenerys/Missandei It was so sweet to see them talking to one another as normal girls would about their boyfriend(s) instead of a queen talking business to her advisor. :)

6. The carvings I mean...I wasn't too impressed? Again, it just didn't make sense to me. I thought the First Men and the Children originated from beyond the Wall and then eventually made their way south? How did they get to Dragonstone? I dunno, I just thought it was a little strange and didn't really seem to fit what we know already about the history of Westeros.

7. Daenerys/Jon Jon STILL won't bend the knee. Dany has not only agreed to aid him with mining the dragon glass, she has now proclaimed that she will fight for him, for the North, and he STILL won't give her what she wants. I guess he really, truly does not trust her yet, even though she seems to have a soft spot for him. I LOVE LOVE LOVE how she used his own words against him. The same words he said to Mance when he refused to bend the knee to Stannis. You can't have your cake and eat it too, Jon. If you want the North to be so independent, then how can you expect Dany to help you? But if you submit and become ONE kingdom and work as a team, you'll have a valuable ally against the white walkers AND still be able to keep the peace with the presumable new queen whenever the war is over. I just don't get his thinking.

8. Be a fucking dragon Yes, Daenerys is in quite the predicament. She has lost a lot of valuable allies. Why? Because she’s playing the game way, way too conservatively. Tyrion and the others are good strategists, don’t get me wrong. But this just isn’t Dany’s way; it’s not what she is good at. I might have the unpopular opinion here, but Olenna’s words were sound. Being a dragon is who Dany is; she and her dragons share the same soul, the same fire. Using her dragons to attack the Red Keep and conquer Westeros does NOT make her a mad queen like her father before her. Does she enjoy killing innocents? Of course not! She truly wants to make Westeros a better place. But she won’t ever get there if she keeps listening to the sheep and doesn’t stay true to herself. It’s gotten her this far, and it will continue to carry her forward if she continues to listen to her heart and follow her intuition like she has been.

9. Arya/Brienne What an engaging, fun scene! Seeing two powerful women go up against one another like that was exhilarating. And Arya’s little sword dance at the beginning? She’s too cute. It is absolutely amazing to see how far she has come; how being a faceless man for a short stint has helped her grow in impossible ways. However, you can still see Syrio’s influences in her fighting style as well. Others around her may find it slightly scary, but I find it to be truly awesome.

10. Sansa jealous? So I’ve seen quite a few people say that the expression Sansa had upon her face while watching Arya train with Brienne is that of jealousy, my dear friend Danielle included. When I watched the scene, jealousy was the farthest from my mind. What would Sansa have to be jealous of? Combat was never her thing; she and Arya are two completely different individuals. She’s already received many compliments on being a good leader. No, what Sansa was feeling in that moment is much more complicated. I think she is troubled. Troubled by what Arya must have seen and gone through in the process of becoming such an experienced fighter. Worried about what this might mean for Arya’s future; is she on a dangerous path? And I think a slight bit of hidden pride to see that her sister is indeed a survivor and can hold her own.

11. Davos/Jon/Missandei Oh, this scene made me so mad. Everyone under Daenerys’s sanction has been more than friendly and accommodating to Jon and Davos, maybe even a little more than necessary. They are essentially strangers, yet the people of Dragonstone trust them enough to let them in on their strategies involving conquering Westeros. Yet, Jon and Davos continue to stir the pot. What was to be gained by making Missandei question her loyalty and Dany’s motives? They want them as allies yet they still refuse to treat them as such. I just don’t understand.

12. Theon/Jon This was a reunion I was not expecting to happen so soon. I was so scared that Jon was gonna beat the shit out of Theon on the spot similar to how he pummeled Ramsay. (RIP </3) Just looking at the sadness and despair in Theon’s eyes communicates that he still hasn’t forgiven himself for the crimes he committed against the Stark family, he probably never will, and that he doesn’t really want anyone else to forgive him either.

13. The Battle I don’t think I really need to do much explaining on how awesome this sequence was. Seeing Daenerys and Drogon in action, in battle, in Westeros was so satisfying; literally something we have all been waiting to see since season one. And I don’t think I am the only one who was intensely stressed during these scenes. If you’re like me, and love basically every character on the show, it was so hard to watch but also impossible to turn your eyes away. I was so convinced Bronn was going to die, but was relieved that he didn’t; I was so convinced that SOMEBODY major was going to die, but nobody did, at least not that we know of. Jaime’s fate is still up in the air; personally, I don’t think he will die - yet - but you never know with this show. Seeing Drogon injured was rough, but I knew slaying a dragon would not be very effective with that monstrosity of a crossbow; it is just too clumsy to maneuver and slow. Seeing Tyrion’s anguish as he watched Jaime in battle was emotional and bittersweet, but I think his loyalty to Dany will still remain regardless. The major battles on this show are my absolute favorite parts; D&D are so amazing at putting the focus on individual characters and their emotions while still capturing the bigger picture. I’ve never been one for big battle scenes; I’ve always found them to be a bit tedious and boring. But Game of Thrones is a completely different ballgame and has given me a new, engaging perspective on them.

Overall, a stunning episode, and I am excitedly looking forward to episode 5 on Sunday night.

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obsidianarchives · 5 years

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Game of Thrones Recap: S8E1 - "Winterfell"

We’re back! After 12 years of waiting (okay, a year and a half, but who’s counting) Game of Thrones has returned. Mirroring the reunion of long-separated characters in-show, this episode at once feels like an old friend that never left, and yet has grown and matured in undeniable, but almost imperceptible ways. Compared to previous seasons, the episode maintained the improved (if breakneck) pacing of post-book content but has characters being written more consistently with their established arcs and motivations. They even trotted out a new intro this season. While in past years, the focus was just on how expansive this story truly was, ranging across countries on two continents, the focus is now much narrower and honed in on the remaining threats.

King’s Landing

In the capital, we see Cersei overseeing The Golden Company’s arrival in Westeros without much fanfare, and to the Queen’s deep disappointment, sans elephants. With precious little time left in the series, it seems unlikely the famed Essos mercenary troop will feature as much political intrigue as suggested in the books (with much of that being shifted into Jon and Daenerys’s storyline), they do at the very least come through suited and booted under the command of Captain-General Harry Strickland. The comparatively ragtag Second Suns these are not! Sidelined sidepiece Daario Naharis can eat his heart out while we see exactly what this portends for Cersei’s grand plans.

Speaking of royal jumpoffs, Euron again asks for a downpayment on his reward for aiding the Crown and asks to bed the Queen. She reads from the Book of Olivia Pope and demands Euron earn her, and then immediately lets him into her bed anyway. While most people are, to put it mildly, bemused by Euron’s continued prominence I’m (against my better judgement) at least willing to see where the writers are taking us with his character. It seems like there’s at least one twist left in his arc, at the very least as an obstacle in the Cersei/Jaime relationship. The story would have been better served setting it up during the meandering season 5 as the series stalled for George RR Martin to finish his books, but what’s done is done. If nothing else highlighted how truly alone Queen Cersei has become, it was her resignation in letting a Greyjoy into her bed, even if it was simply to keep him around and as a tool for her alleged pregnancy.

Meanwhile, after interrupting one of Bronn’s dalliances, Hand of the Queen Qyburn relays Cersei’s offer of gold to the sellsword if he will kill her “traitorous brothers” Jaime and Tyrion. And because she has no chill, she wants him to use Joffrey’s crossbow that Tyrion used to kill Tywin to do it. I think most of us would be surprised if he took her up on the offer and betrayed his friends, especially since he got paid up front, but this furthers the idea that one of her brothers will turn the tables and be the one to kill the Queen.

Finally we were reminded that King of the Iron Islands, Euron, whose ships ferried the Golden Company, still had Yara as a hostage in his ship. This is immediately paid off as Theon leads a successful rescue while crazy uncle “Crow’s Eye” is occupied plying his wares trying to send Cersei her queenly quivers. It’s still eff Theon forever around these parts, and while I remain unmoved by his inevitable redemption arc, he did come through for once. Despite her time as a captive Yara almost immediately has a plan and decides to retake the Iron Islands while Euron is abroad to provide a fallout shelter to survive the Winter should the Northern Alliance fail. Theon however feels honor bound to return to Winterfell and help his Stark kindred. While that’s cool and all, I’d be more worried about the other Northerners if they see him first. The last thing they remember is him allegedly burning the youngest Stark heirs alive and setting Winterfell to the torch among an infestation of Ironborn captors in the North.

Sidenote: Everyone is real cool about seeing Bran alive and wheeling around. Sansa knew Theon didn’t actually burn them because he slipped up, but everyone else should be a little more shocked he’s still alive.

Last Hearth

In Winterfell, we learned when the Wall fell, Sansa called all her banners to Winterfell to prepare for the long night. Ned Umber, underaged son of the traitorous Smalljon (who died in the Battle of the Bastards) and current lord of the Last Hearth, remains a straggler and was given more horses and wagons to transport his crew. You knew from jump nothing good was going to come from that late breaking news.

Cutting to the Umber’s house seat, we find out Tormund and the plot imperative remainder of the Brotherhood without Banners survived the collapse of the Wall and have made their way to the Northernmost castle in Westeros. It’s abandoned however, with obvious signs of a recent White Walker attack. In an eerie dark, they run into Lord Commander Dolorous Edd and what’s left of the Night’s Watch also making their way south. Momentarily fooled by Tormund’s gorgeous baby blue eyes, the two parties join up to find Ned Umber’s dead body bolted to the wall with the arms of several other corpses arrayed in a now all too familiar spiral pattern of the dead. Many viewers have noted the vague similarity between this and the Targaryen sigil. It’s possible “Fire and Blood” may have a deeper meaning than we originally thought, but before we can ponder that, surprise! Little homie ain’t dead!

Well, he is dead, but not dead-dead, which is still bad news for our group as he zombies back into the fight as Tormund’s back is turned. Luckily Beric Dondarrion and his flaming sword are there to burn him, but now they know the army of the dead is between them and their retreat to Winterfell.

Winterfell

WHERE. IS. GHOST?!?!?!?! Ahem...

We start in the home of the Starks, and quite expertly mirrored the start of the series with seemingly all of the North gathered to witness the procession coming to Winterfell and the arrival of the King and Queen. They even featured a young boy as Bran 2.0 climbing around and Arya hiding in plain sight betraying her noble bearing. Not to be forgotten is the Permit Patty looks of the Northerners as they see Missandei and Grey Worm rolling through the gates, and you can tell they have clearly not seen Black people in the North before.

Jon Snow returns to Winterfell after his quest for allies (and dragonglass), and he finally gets his reunion with Bran, who he hasn’t seen since episode 2 when he was hanging on for dear life after being pushed out of the Astronomy Tower by Jaime Lannister. Any hope that Bran may have gotten some chill in the offseason and settled into being a less creepy Three-Eyed Raven was immediately blown as he remains as cold and detached as ever. He rudely interrupts the formalities between a less than impressed Sansa and meeting the family Daenerys to remind them they “don’t have time for all of that” with the Night King on the march. He does have time for an old friend, but we’ll get back to that later.

We soon find out that Sansa isn’t the only one a bit chafed at Daenerys’s presence and what that means for the political reality of the North. The trillest player in the game, and Lady Olenna reincarnated, Lady Lyanna Mormont takes time out of her busy day of giving people stank faces to read Jon for filth. We all know Jon is only concerned about the Great War against the dead, and while you’d THINK knowing their only protection from the White Walkers which had stood for 8,000 years was gone would focus them, petty is gonna petty. Meanwhile Sansa asks the QTNA such as how are we supposed to feed these extra 100,000 people you just showed up to dinner with? Did you bring food for those two fully-grown dragons with you, or did you burn all that grain from Highgarden and spend the money on winter fits Dany?

The homecomings continue as former (and technically still, depending on your interpretation) husband and wife Sansa and Tyrion get to catch up for the first time since the Purple Wedding. We get to see how much Sansa has grown, and for all the earlier haters calling her naive and dumb, she’s the one pointing out the obvious holes in believing in Lannister promises. But the real meeting we’ve all been waiting for finally happened; Jon and Arya are together again! They both downplayed what they’ve been through, but we see just how much their experiences have changed them. Jon has spent seven seasons doing everything he can to be the shield that guards the realms of men. Arya in turn did everything she could, and killed anyone she had to in order to make her way back home to her family. It’s a subtle difference in perspective that Arya invited Jon to realize before his big picture thinking misses the forest for the trees.

And then there was Gendrya!!! Sorry, got a bit excited there for a second. We see Gendry already hard at work fashioning dragonglass weapons in the Winterfell forge. Arya comes in to ask for a custom made weapon, and also to flirt, and their obvious chemistry has not changed a bit. But before that, the Hound gets to be a proud papa bear and see his baby for the first time since she left him to die (and robbed him) at the end of season 4. It went about as gruff and awkwardly as you’d expect but there was obvious love there.

While Ser Davos, former hand of the former King in the North Jon Snow, talks to Tyrion about the seemingly inevitable marriage proposal to seal their alliance, Daenerys and her boo are looking for any excuse to get out of his folk’s place and get it on. She takes him out for a date, and apparently Jon has been putting it down so good she’s letting him borrow her car with the AKA plates. She invites him to get on Rhaegal and we finally get Jon, the not-so-secret Targaryen, riding a dragon!!!!!! The dragon named after his father no less, and while we all know — and the dragons clearly know — Dany and Jon are still in the dark about his true parentage. They fly off to a cave underneath a waterfall and Dany remarks they could stay there for a thousand years in obvious echoes of the dialogue between Jon and Ygritte north of the Wall.

After getting her back broken, Dany goes with her little buddy Jorah to thank Maester school dropout Sam for curing his greyscale. Upon realizing he’s a Tarly however, she also has to not-so-delicately break the news that she flambéed his father and brother for not bending the knee. Already crestfallen, Sam is pushed by Bran to reveal Jon’s true parentage as he’s paying his respects in the Winterfell crypts.

Always on time for heartbreak, we realize this is the first time Jon has “seen” his father since they parted ways on the Kingsroad in S1E2 when Ned promised to explain about his mother the next time they saw each other. What should have been another joyous meeting between best friends is soiled as Jon is less struck by the “you’ve been playing hide Longclaw with your Auntie” news than the whole “you’re the one true King” part, and is in full denial of a man who’s been given yet another promotion he never asked for. In the space of a single conversation, he now has to grapple with the feeling that his father Ned lied to him about who he was his entire life, whether this news cripples his alliance to save Westeros and defeat the dead, the realization that the love of his life is not only now a political rival but blood family, and the weight of another crown after he just refused the first.

In our final scene we see a hooded Jaime Lannister make his way into Winterfell after finally abandoning his sister’s evil to try and fight for the living out of honor. Unfortunately, the very FIRST person he sees is Bran, who’s been sitting in the same exact spot all night, waiting for his “old friend.” See, he didn’t have time for Jon to meet the family, but he did make time for Jaime’s ass after he pushed him out of the window.

With all the callbacks, this episode did a wonderful job of subtly (and not-so-subtly) reminding us of where we started so we can appreciate just how far we’ve come. While some were expecting a bang after so long off the air, the first episode of the final season focused on setting the final pieces on the chess board, and giving us a deep breath before the final descent into madness.

#Game of Thrones #Season 8 #Winterfell #Winter Is Coming

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