#Yelena will get a redemption arc though
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You must be dumb as a box of rocks if you think ‘villain’ means entirely bad in this context. Shades of grey exist and good and evil isn’t black and white. Ever heard of suicide squad? Or literally any movie where the story isn’t that simplistic? You really think the writers are gonna wipe all of Bucky’s arc so far? Maybe watch the movie rather than have meltdown before anything has even happened. Or read up on the comic. Embarazzzin.
First of all, there’s no need to be rude about it.
Second of all, the Thunderbolts cast is literally all villains. John Walker is a villain, both in comics and the MCU. Valentina hasn’t been explicitly defined as a villain yet, but in both her appearances she is causing trouble for the heroes (tricking Yelena into thinking Clint knowingly and willingly murdered Nat, working with Walker after he’s publicly turned bad). In the comics she’s literally called Madam Hydra. In the MCU, HYDRA is the big bad most of the time. Ghost was the antagonist of Ant-Man and the Wasp; by definition antagonist means villain/bad guy. I get her motivations weren’t as horrible as other villains, but she was still a villain, though a very sympathetic one. Same thing with Taskmaster. She was an antagonist in Black Widow, but she didn’t have a choice as she was being controlled by the real villain. Red Guardian is a comic villain; I think the worst he’s done in the MCU was send Nat and Yelena to become Black Widows as young children. Speaking of Yelena, in the comics she fight against Nat constantly. She was a flat out villain. Bucky was obviously an antagonist in Winter Soldier, but not of his own free will.
Out of every character I just listed, the entire Thunderbolts lineup, only Bucky has been officially redeemed. To the rest of the MCU, all the other characters are still villains. We as an audience know a bit more, but in the context of the movie/s, they are all bad guys.
It makes no sense for Bucky to be on a team of villains, especially since, from his point of view, they are still villains. He’s never interacted with any of them, except John, and he literally watched power/the shield slowly corrupt him.
And yes, I’ve watched both Suicide Squad movies, so I’m well aware that movies where the main characters are villains can work. But in the Suicide Squad movies, none of the cast gets redeemed. They start as villains, and end as villains (though maybe a bit more sympathetic). I’m sure Thunderbolts will redeem at least a few characters, but I still don’t get why a character that has already been redeemed and is publicly known as a hero (or at least, not a villain) is on a team full of unredeemed characters. At least pick a character who hasn’t had two redemption arcs already.
#ant blogs#ants inbox#anon#I’m still annoyed idc#thunderbolts#bucky barnes#I love getting asks but not a huge fan of hate in my inbox#also I’m surprised zemo isn’t involved but that might be a secret they’re keeping until the movies out
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Having finally watched Black Widow I sadly have to say that MCU Sharon has far more in common with Dreykov than Yelena.
With her history of being experimented on, manipulated and trafficked? Yelena would hate Sharon.
Gawddd I hate the MCU.
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MCU/Marvel Characters Tag Game
thankyou for the tag <33 @meidui
blorbo (favorite character, character I think about the most):
Tony duhhh. I'm not even kidding when I say i can legitimately write an essay on how much I love him <3 + he's the one that got me into MCU/Marvel in general. He's such a complex character and the things that really made me admire him the most are when he conquers his personal demons. One of the things that I love about him the most is that he just tries to be good, and there's just something so inherently human about it that you don't really see in other popular superheroes. And while his actions/decisions may sometimes be vilified by people, I've always empathised with what he does because I (and Steve LOL, see that Captain America/Iron Man Annual (2021) Issue #2) feel that his heart has always been in the right place. I can go on and on about him, but I once saw someone say this about Tony (especially 616!Tony i.e.) is that while all superheroes are willing to risk their lives for a noble purpose, Tony's willing to sell his soul.
(I don't want to flood people's dashboard so)
scrunkly (my “baby”, character that gives me cuteness aggression, character that is So Shaped):
Yelena <33 honestly I started liking her before Black Widow came out just on the basis that she's canonically asexual in 616 + I saw that Florence Pugh was gonna play her in MCU. And hello??? A badass Russian assassin who can kill people with her bare hands and has the same sexuality as me?? Listen, there's not a lot of asexual characters out there okay, and when they are, they're not exactly in a media that I would want to watch (I literally cannot force myself to watch something just on that basis alone so). While watching Black Widow, I was just so smitten by her!! Look at her, she's so cute!! A squishy lil baby that i wanna cuddle with and give kisses all over her face <33
scrimblo bimblo (underrated/underappreciated fave):
Kate!! Idk, is she underrated? I don't venture out much bc I like being in this stevetony fandom bubble so idk if she is or not <3 but cmon, look at her and how can you not ADORE her?? she has a good sense of humour, she just wants to do her best in helping the people around her and she's so relatable LOLOLOL bc if I were to ever meet Tony (yes ik he's not real, im not actl insane guys even though I've said I am 100000 times), I would NOT be cool also and would just follow him around the same way she did with Clint
glup shitto (obscure fave, character that can appear in the background for 0.2 seconds and I won’t shut up about it for a week) :
DUM-E LOLOLOLOL!! BRUH I WAS THE ONLY ONE WHO SCREAMED WHEN I SAW HIM IN SPIDER-MAN NO WAY HOME OKAY?? You guys can all judge me if you want but I do not care! I have never, ever been happier!!!
poor little meow meow (“problematic”/unpopular/controversial/otherwise pathetic fave):
Wanda. She IS controversial (in MCU) and I get it because of reasons that I wouldn't be able to explain as clearly as someone else (im incoherent 99% of the time). I'd love to be able to say that I have a strong moral compass that points North all the time to be able to not like her, but I can't help but do. I didn't like her before WandaVision, however, I do blame the writers for that and wished they didn't write her MCU origins the way they did!!! UGH!!! But yeah, the part that made me start liking her in Wandavision was that last episode where the townspeople were confronting her for her actions and she was just crying because she finally realised that her actions are hurting people. And I guess im just excited to see where her character arc is going to go, and I'm fine if MCU wants to make it a redemption arc or a corruption arc because (to me) she's complex and interesting enough for it.
horse plinko (character I would torment for fun, for whatever reason):
Tony, of course, horse plinko should always be your blorbo <333 i just love seeing my favourite characters (in whatever fandom) be tormented <333 you think Marvel has tortured him enough? Yeah, well I like to see fic writers hurt him 10x worse bc he suffers beautifully okay? Have u seen those panels of 616!Tony just full-on crying/bleeding/bruised (with a full-on existential crisis to boot) and mcu!tony with the bruises on his face and tears in his eyes??
eeby deeby (character I would send to superhell):
Howard Stark (616!Howard Stark especially), must i elaborate?? lol.
tagging: @thahiree @avengersprotectionsquad @alwaysash13 @dodqerevans and anyone who wants to do it (you can choose the fandom u want to talk about, it doesn't have to be mcu/marvel!)
It's fun reading people's thoughts on characters LOLOL
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💌 BS: The Red Room for TheScene™️ game! 💌
Oh! Good one!
Spoilers for The Red Room belowwwwww
Also, this became more of a 'Director's Commentary' than a simple answer....soooo...enjoy 😘
That ONE scene for The Red Room was the ending 'Assemble' scene in the final chapter. Where Dreykov is still there and in a stand-off with the Widows and then the Avengers and Aftermath show up and they join forces with the Widows after all the events of Civil War.
Throughout Civil War Natasha was trying to keep the Avengers together; she was trying to keep her family together. And, ultimately (even in BS:A) there was a giant rift created and her family was divided.
She failed.
In the Red Room, the first thing I thought about was planning a redemption arc, not necessarily for her but for the Avengers. Through their own stubbornness, they failed Natasha and I wanted a way to bring them back from that.
Anywho, that made me think about two of my fave scenes in the MCU.
1: the end of Age of Ultron when Cap and Natasha walk into the training room and look over the New Avengers and Cap says, "Avengers...."
2: In Endgame when Cap finally says, "Avengers Assemble." If you're new here, I'll let you know right now, I'm not a fan of Steve or Natasha's ending 😬
Soooooooooooo with those two scenes in mind, it just happened. That scene just came together.
Like, I could see it in my head and it gave me shivers.
At the ending of Black Widow, in that field with the soft lighting from the morning sun, two groups stare each other down. The newly freed Widows and Natasha v Dreykov. The music is sad and slow, as though a realization hits them, they aren't going to get out of this.
Then BOOM! three arrows rocket through the sky. The music stops. Everyone's confused, what kind of idiot brings a bow and arrow to a fight?
The smokescreen canisters on the arrows pop open, creating a barrier between the groups. The faint sound of music begins to build, if you listen closely it's the Cap and Iron Man theme combined.
The smoke clears and there they are, Steve and Tony. The music builds, faster and louder, as the rest of the Avengers arrive, finally a family united by Natasha.
The music shifts to the Aftermath theme as Aftermath drops down from the sky and they arrive too. There's a pause as Belov realizes that Boone isn't with them but the score rises again as she and Duke soar into frame.
The music softens again as we get Natasha's reactions as she's given the reigns of both the Avengers and Aftermath, and Yelena takes her hand, and for the first time in the MCU we hear:
"Avengers Assemble."
The Avengers theme plays before melting into The Red Room theme as they go to battle.
This happened in about 10 seconds as my brain clicked and I was like, I gotta write this. Now.
Sorry for the long-winded answer, I got excited 😉
THE SCENE™ GAME
#talk to me goose#anonymous avengers#anonymous avengers ask away#ask me things#ask me literally anything#the scene game
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Notes on chapter 132, based on translations that are out.
-I like how Annie is written out on the character level. The chapter goes into detail considering her character motivations so far and why she decides to stay behind.
One thing I've noticed is people reducing Annie's character to her relationship with Armin now that it exists at all. It's like a knee-jerk reaction every time a female character ends up having a relationship with a male character. I understand it, stories tend to do that and I feel like the romantic element for Annie's and Armin's relationship is kind of out of nowhere myself, but this and the previous chapter clearly explore that Annie is tired of fighting after all of the fighting she has done and I think it makes sense for her as an individual character. It has nothing to do with Armin. Her main scenes in this chapter were actually with Mikasa and Reiner. It's a strange hyper-focus to me, I guess. It happens with Mikasa, too. You've got basically a good chunk of an arc focusing on the relationship between her and Armin with Eren doing his own thing (both Trost and Shiganshina), but she still only cares about Eren, I guess.
This is actually the first time Annie has considered her feelings and what she wants and that's good progress for a character that hates herself.
That said, having her back after 90 or so chapters and not having her actions matter that much here is wierd. The most I see as her plot importance right now is knocking sense into Reiner. I've seen people write the ship crew off already, but I can't help but feel they still might end up having more time and relevance because of paths or some other unforeseen circumstances. I think Gabi and Falco are in a similar situation, as well. If they don't, I think I will have a problem with Annie's involvement in the plot, but I think on a character level she's been handled just fine, even really solidly.
-I like that Floch dies with strong convictions and good intentions in mind. This is the most interesting aspect of Eren and the Yeagerists to me. They are doing this because they want to protect their country and people they love.
While people generally consider fascism as completely evil because of it's horrible methodology (as we also see in this series), the reason why it catches on during times of crisis is because it provides a clear and well-defined perspective within the chaos of the crisis and part of that is the element of saving the people (country) you love. This is a really important element of fascism and the reason why I'd rather not Eren be reduced to the standard villain, but still retain his nuance by the end. Evil is just as human and comes from just as human places as good and for us to not make the same mistakes, it is best to understand the mistakes on a human level and then learn from them, not just brush them off.
-I like Hange's death. It incorporates elements from both, Erwin's and Armin's, sacrifice. She went out there to make all of the deaths mean something and dedicated her heart one last time, which carried on Erwin's will till the end. The final scene of her among everyone is a wonderful callback to the soldiers who have followed the Survey Corps commanders around on their journey, from Erwin standing on the corpses of his comerades to both Erwin and Hange looking at their faces. It's good pathos in my eyes.
I think her farewell scene with Levi was really good for just how well it conveyed their relationship in a couple of gestures.
I've seen the final scene actually considered real and not symbolic of a job well done for Hange for the situation she was handed (which is what I think its narrative purpose was), which I personally think is one of the dumbest ideas I've seen around about the chapter because I think this is a pretty typical trope in war stories and AoT itself has used this stuff before at various points, with, as said, all the scenes with Erwin and Hange seeing their comerades.
But we also see stuff like Jean imagining him and the group of trainees being eaten by Titans before joining the Survey Corps just to convey a state of mind.
Erwin was not actually standing on those corpses, folks. It's all thematic imagery just like all of the animal stuff here and there. Hell, the people Hange knows less even have their backs turned to her.
If it is meant to be literal, it is extremely uncharacteristic of the story, but I feel if you know anything about visual storytelling and visual storytelling tropes, this is pretty typical.
I know there is also contention about Hange being the one to go out there and delay the Titans, but I don't think any of them would be able to do as much as Hange did alone here.
Onyakapon is obviously needed to fly the plane.
Reiner and Pieck would be pretty much useless in their Titan forms and we don't even know if Pieck can actually use the 3DMG, which is the more smarter option here to use over her tiny Titan form.
Connie and Jean going out there has nothing to do with their position in the story and their character arcs, while Hange is the one carrying the weight of the responsibility. Can you also really imagine Connie or Jean having the same competency taking down Titans as Hange, someone who has been doing it far longer than any of them?
Maybe Armin and Mikasa could. But that might leave the possibility of getting through to Eren off the table. I think what people also forget is that Eren still felt guilty when fighting them. Everyone Eren knows facing him might actually be a tactical advantage.
Hange does have a connection with Eren, but most of the group has a much stronger one with him than her.
Finally, there is Levi, who can't even stand up properly. I don't think he is fit enough to even hold off one Titan and as a result they would all be dead.
Outside of this group is also Annie, Yelena, Kiyomi and the two kids and only Annie feels the one equipped enough to take the distraction role.
But ultimately I think it's a thing of principle and character perspective.
Reiner and Annie can use the 3DMG in fairly skilled ways (they are higher ranked among the 104th), they have regenerative abilities and they are in a fairly good physical condition (though also probably much more exhausted than Hange). I think you could spin their character stories to fit this situation if you really wanted. Either of them could've gone to sacrifice themselves for the group to get away.
But Hange is the leader so she thinks she should take the responsibility. She straight-up says that she hasn't been a very efficent leader, so she views this as a redemption of sorts. Armin even offers to go instead of her.
You could paint it as plot convinience and be done with it, but just like Levi's decision to not inject Erwin, I think it makes sense on a character level and what Hange's character struggle has been about in this arc, even if it's not the most "logical" decision.
The other element that has contention related to Hange is that she passed the position of commander over to Armin.
In any other position, I would agree it to be Jean, but considering the context of going to fight Eren, I think Armin is fine and this to me is supported by the reasons Hange gives to appoint Armin as the commander.
Hange says that she appoints Armin because of his insight and courage.
The small detail that even if he's falling to pieces emotionally, he never actually runs away might be useful in the confrontation with Eren. Maybe he'll be overwhelmed and indecisive at points, which is why Jean could be more fitting, but ultimately he ends up at least facing the issue throughout however much turmoil.
While his ability to see the world through a more nuanced light and willingness to cooperate is not only a thematic way to contrast Eren and Armin (the former being stuck in his own perspective and the latter being willing to talk), his reasonings and wake-up calls might get through to Eren much more strongly because they have done so before, in Trost and in Shiganshina.
In any other situation I'd pick Jean, but here I think Armin is better or at the very least also a good option. It's not completely unreasonable.
I do not think this means any of the arcs of the characters are thrown under the bus. I feel everyone on the plane will get closure to their arcs. I think Jean's leadership ability will become relevant. I think Reiner's desire to be a hero will become relevant. I think Pieck's desire to fulfill her responsibility as a warrior will become relevant. I even think Connie's desire to kill Zeke will become relevant and finally so will Armin's and Mikasa's connection with Eren.
I'm much more worried about Zeke and Historia.
I think Historia is essential to make the thematic backbone of the story work. She's the first one among the Reiss to step up and break it. Why would she attempt to break the cycle by playing into it? I think Historia got another perspective of whatever Eren saw and might be working against that. Sadly it probably still involved letting Eren start the rumbling, but perhaps she found a way for it not to go all the way.
We know the oath of the First King is not actually a thing now because Ymir refused to comply, so who says Historia and paths Ymir can't have an encounter.
As a final note, I like the moment with Mikasa and Annie from Mikasa's perspective. The story opted to have Mikasa gain a more healthy perspective on Eren rather than complete independence from him and that can happen. You can go the independence route, but I think this works, too.
Relationships can change for the better and they can change for the worse.
All of this said, I think most of the content was nicely substantial and made sense, but that isn't the main issue I have with this chapter.
I think it has a pacing problem. Some scenes are just fine, but I feel some are a little too quick to have as much impact as I'd like them to have. Mainly Floch's and Hange's death scenes. The point behind them is good, but I think just a couple more pages of breathing room would've made this good chapter a great one.
I do think the anime giving this chapter just a little bit more time could definitely make it great and improve on the other ones where pace bothers me.
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The Aesthetics of Heroism
What is morality but a pretty picture?
Yelena fabricated her past to make herself look special in the annals of history. Through this conscious deceit she makes explicit what the other members of the alliance have been doing on an unconscious level. The morality of nearly everyone in this series has been based on gaining approval from others.
In other words, to look good. In other words, aesthetics.
The panels focus on Connie, Reiner and Gabi because they are the ones who have had to face the fragile foundations of their beliefs most painfully.
Connie joined the military to make his village appreciate him, and eventually came to understand that the kind of person his mother wanted him to be is more important than any praise he might receive from her.
Reiner wanted to become a hero so his mother would be proud of him, his father would accept him, and, after being humiliated repeatedly in the Cadets, everyone would respect him.
Upon realising the weight of his crimes, he becomes suicidal with guilt that he committed genocide for such childish reasons.
Gabi joined the Cadets so she could make a performative act of redemption and be accepted in her society, but became penitent when she realised the consequences of her actions.
The others, however, are not free of this sin: they simply have not looked it in the eye.
Yelena might argue that:
Mikasa felt valuable only in her ability to care for Eren, and this was her reason for joining the Corps. The source of her value rested in him.
Armin’s desire to see the outside world was not a matter of seeking approval, but then, that was never his moral calling. The moral calling that made him join the Corps was to prove to Eren and Mikasa that he’s not just a burden.
Jean joined the Corps to live up to Marco’s evaluation of him, i.e. to gain his posthumous approval. Likewise, he is now driven to act by Marco’s judging eyes.
Levi’s primary motivation is to carry out the wishes of the fallen in their stead. The reason he places this burden on himself? Guilt that humanity’s strongest soldier couldn’t protect them. He wants to redeem himself in their dead eyes.
Hange is similarly acting under the pressure of their dead comrades, even while they would rather run away from it all.
Annie became dedicated to the Warrior cause for the sake of returning to her father, the person whose approval she cherishes the most.
Pieck became dedicated to the Warrior cause because of how deeply she values the bonds between comrades.
As for Magath, we don’t know enough about him to decisively judge. However, based on this:
I would suggest that Magath and Marleyans on the whole feel compelled by their dead ancestors to despise the race who persecuted them.
Falco’s case is especially interesting, but we shall get to that later. For now, what’s worth noting is that the value systems followed by these characters have all been fuelled by that recognisable, pathetic and all-too-human drive for one’s life to mean something in the eyes of others. The latest push of these characters to save the world is, in Yelena’s eyes, just another way to seek approval from an abstract audience: to be justified in the eyes of history, like she wanted, whether in the generations of the future or in the ghosts of the past.
If traditional morality is built off such a pleading basis, then its adherents are merely slaves to others. It is very fitting, then, that the character they have all allied against is the one who hates slaves above all else.
Eren was once such a slave. He realised how much he wanted to be acknowledged as special in the Uprising Arc, laughed at and underestimated as he was as a child, lonely as he was after losing his parents.
It is an illusion he thoroughly discarded. Freeing himself from those bonds, he can now follow the course of his own will unfettered by concern for others’ approval - unfettered by morality. He is willing to be the villain.
Yet in the eyes of many citizens of Paradis, Eren is a hero.
This, however, is largely incidental for Eren. He has made it very clear that his comrades in the 104th matter more to him than anyone else - if it were approval he were looking for, he would never trade theirs for the likes of Floch’s.
Rather, Eren has come to realise how fragile, aesthetic and ultimately meaningless morality is. If one follows the course of their will one is bound to be called hero by some and villain by others. Eren thus strives beyond good and evil into a new realm of his freedom - willing to be despised and never forgiven even by the people he loves most.
It is at this point we can return to Falco. Eren sees himself in Falco during his stay in Marley.
Falco is willing to earn Gabi’s hatred in order to protect her by stealing the thing she wants most. In this way, even though it is for the sake of another person, he is still following his own will and is not acting out of the desire for approval.
Just so does Eren act for his friends’ sake because he loves them, and not because he wants them to view him in a certain light.
If what we have discovered so far is true, then Yelena’s analysis is accurate. This alliance is not a demonstration of humanity’s nobility, but its vulnerability: a collection of broken people hopelessly thirsting for validation. For that, and that alone, seems to be the fundamental basis of morality.
Here, the metafictional aspect comes to light. The coming together of enemies to defeat a common, greater enemy is a classic trope in uplifting stories about mankind’s capacity to understand one another. Yelena exposes how the alliance are simply telling themselves this sweet story to regain a sense of worth; to believe everything up to now has been worth it; to believe they can be redeemed.
But the real story that they’re in has always been sceptical of this trope - at least in the eyes of Eren, who disdains the morals of subservience.
This kind of storytelling-based morality is apparent in our own experience of the series.
Who we deem good and evil at the start is based entirely on the narrative established by the Paradisians, as we are only allowed access into their heads. But when we come round to the start of the Marley Arc, we are presented with a very different picture of things: our heroes are the spunky Gabi and the cautious Falco, fighting against Eldian devils to redeem the sins of their people.
Nothing has changed except the perspective. When morality is this subjective, how can it make any claim to truth? How can we make any decisions based on such a shaky, unsubstantiated premise?
Yet despite all this, it is Eren’s amoral actions which will lead to the annihilation of the vast majority of humanity. Morality may therefore be a necessary yoke. Only, this conclusion is problematised by the fact that everything that has happened since the collapse of the Eldian Empire - that is to say, everything that pushed Eren into this situation - were decisions based on moral judgements.
Now we enter into the series’ most testing paradox: that the world which was doomed by moral decisions can only be saved by moral decisions.
Whither shall we fly? Outside of morality, or back into it? Is it our shelter or our prison, our curse or our salvation? Or perhaps the paradox means that this entire discussion is essentially meaningless - for humanity’s good or ill, there is no escaping morality. We ineluctably return to it, begging for the antidote for its own venom; and so the cycle of historical mistakes continues to revolve, unbroken.
Who, then, can say that we are free?
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The Black Widow movie...
I absolutely loved the first fifteen minutes. They were just beautiful.
The rest however… *heavy sigh*
Don’t get me wrong. I wanted to love the film as a whole and without reservations. I do love some parts of the film. There are many fantastic aspects to it. I love Natasha. I love Yelena. I love Melina. Some of the shots were very pretty. The set-design was great. I love we (kinda) found out what happened in Budapest. I love how many female characters there are in this movie, and some of the fight scenes were a lot of fun.
I’ve waited for a Black Movie film since at the very least 2013. And when I saw the first few minutes I was all “nothing that will happen can take this glorious opening away again.” 😭
Unfortunately it feels as though the original creative vision as it is presented in the first quarter of an hour was watered down by concessions to the Marvel action formula, i.e. unnecessary comic relief and even more unnecessary, dragged-out action sequences like the rooftop/car chase and the prison break/freak avalanche and then the never-ending showdown as the Red Room (HQ) explodes.
I’m not against action scenes. Actually, I love action scenes. But either in moderation, or they have to contribute something to the plot, otherwise they’re just redundant and, well, boring. We already got a few minutes of Natasha and Yelena fighting when the Black Widows show up and the fight goes on, and then “Taskmaster” shows up again, and at this point I was already getting tired of it. Like, we know the characters won’t die and they’re not fighting against characters they have any sort of personal connection with or even just antagonists with an agenda – so why should we care?
I wanted the film to be utterly heart-wrenching, but they never let us feel that after the intro. Like, the fact they gloss over all the extreme violence of the Black Widow training by using a miracle chemical as a plot device to explain why they’re all mind-controlled – that felt oddly sanitized to me. And it’s basically all we get to know about the current Black Widow programme.
“Taskmaster”, or rather Taskmistress seems like she only is another diversion. At first she’s mostly gimmicky with the copy cat behaviour. And then we’re supposed to feel something about the reveal that she is a cyborg-version of the girl Natasha sacrificed to get to Dreykov. But that particular subplot was so underdeveloped that I found it difficult to care. Especially since Taskmistress never gets to be anything but another murder doll and the person Antonia never makes an appearance.
I’ve seen people draw comparisons with CA:TWS, and one of the more interesting aspects of that movie was much of the story revolved around Bucky breaking out of the mind control through his connection to Steve. I would have loved to see any form of self-awareness from Antonia, or get a bit of backstory on her character, instead of, well, avalanches and explosions. In the end her whole story line only existed to create a bit of a half-baked redemption arc for Natasha.
The real villain was supposed to be Dreykov anyway, but… again, TWS-comparison: when Alexander Pierce and the STRIKE team were revealed to be the modern, sleeker version of HYDRA, it was easy to connect them to the larger story arc and fill in the gaps. (Obviously, since then we got a ton of excellent fiction about them, so that probably colours my judgement quite a bit.)
The Red Room however was barely mentioned in the MCU before. (There’s a flashback in one of the movies… the first Avengers film?) And then, in Black Widow, a movie that should be explicitly about this topic, all we get is a music video and another flying headquarters to fall out of the sky? (Also gets a bit old tbh.)
I mean – what exactly are the motives behind the Black Widow programme. The cold war is long over in ‘95. What are they doing apart from kidnapping girls and turning them into murder dolls? Why are they doing it? What’s the goal? What’s the ideology?
All we get for an answer is Dreykov is the mastermind of it all and he’s a power hungry sociopath and he also used to be a general at some point.
Which is a bit ???
I fucking love Ray Winston, and I would have loved to hate Dreykov or hated to love him or however it goes with villains, but instead I felt nothing. Because the film didn’t give me anything to love or hate.
He barely made an appearance before the end of the film by which you were already expected to hate him. But we were never shown a reason why we should hate him. (Unless you count him killing one of the Widows after she became useless to him – but since neither Yelena nor Natasha were emotionally attached to her that didn’t leave much of an impact.) We were mostly told to. In the credits montage. In conversations between Natasha and Yelena. In conversations between Natasha and Melina.
Perhaps it’s too much to ask but I really, really wanted to know more about Natasha’s backstory and the film skirted around that A LOT. Maybe they thought it’d be too exploitative, idk. But when it comes to character development and plot, we’ve got more reasons to hate Alexei and Melina for betraying Natasha and Yelena than we have reasons to hate Dreykov. Which is not ideal.
Oh, and last but not least, probably my biggest pet peeve with the film: I don’t get why they chose to replace the Ohio-version of Alexei (competent, serious, tough, and from the looks of it a caring father and husband) with sad clown!Red Guardian making sexist jokes and being essentially useless. Also, why give them all a funny Russian accent when they used to be apparently quite proficient in English?
The comic relief ruins so much of the wonderful atmosphere the movie built in the beginning. Whyyy?
In the end it boils down to the problem I have with almost all action movies: the actual plot and character development is cut short to make room for gratuitous chases and shoot-outs and things exploding. And I’ll have to rely on fanfic writers to answer my burning questions and spin gold from straw again and makes sense of all the loose ends and underdeveloped ideas and… I can’t really complain about that, but then I feel Marvel could do a lot better...
#black widow#this is me complaining#don't read if that bothers you#why can't i ever just like something?#fanfic will fix it#BUT#i had so many hopes for this#and the film had so much potential#:/#the eternal disappointment that are marvel movies#well#i guess i'm just not the target audience
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okay so im im sorry if I'm being ignorant but apparently, in agent carter, Its been established that there are multiple black widows and that it's an easy title to get. I've never seen the show so I can't confirm. if it is true, I think it's a HUGE disservice to Natasha since in the comics, attaining the black widow title is damn near impossible which is why she and Yelena are the only ones who achieve it. I just think it discredits her title so much and M&M worked on the show so they'd know :(
Hello there anon,
I DID see Agent Carter back when it was released. How unsurprising that the M&Ms had their hands in that particular disaster as well.
The woman you remember from the show was never referred to as a Black Widow though ;) She was trained in the Red Room and was a Soviet spy, but that doesn’t make her worthy of the title.
I’m sure I’ve written something along these lines before so forgive me if I’m being repetitive, but the Red Room needed a web of spies. That means they needed a lot of people. So dozens of girls went through that system and became spies, that doesn’t mean they were all Black Widows, that was a title given to a special few. So while there were lots of Soviet spies out there, there were only a couple of Black Widows for every generation, presumably.
So to conclude, no there’s not a lot of Black Widows, just a lot of traumatised graduates of the Black Widow program.
Also, Natasha is way more than just her Black Widow moniker, so I don’t think the existence of other Widows would lessen her as a person, her experiences and her choices remain the same.
P.S. Those writers really had it out for Peggy. First they butchered her show because NO HOMO (and with a bonus cringe-y redemption arc for a sexist *gags*), and then they did the same in Endgame because NO HOMO.
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Snk 128 Ramblings
1. Omg Annie shut up 🙄.
2. As someone with some pilot training under their belt, good job Onyankopon for not skipping your walkaround 👍🏼.
3. So they need the Azumabito after all. Interesting.
4. I really don’t like Annie after this chapter.
5. Are the airships they’re talking about Paradis’ or Marley’s?? Because it doesn’t make sense for Marley to have backup waiting there when their attack was a surprise.
6. Connie has a point. They’re being contradictory.
7. Wow, Reiner getting that flashback of Eren and finally understanding him??? I did not expect that in a million years. But also @ the fandom, this is proof that Eren was talking about the choice rather than an action when he said that after all. As I’ve been saying 🐸☕️.
8. Wait wtf, the Titans already reached Marley?? How?? Isayama, please explain. There’s lots of steam though so??? Are they evaporating the water around them? Also, how close IS Marley that Hanji was able to see them reach there. And I guess this answers my question about where the harbour was built. But it doesn’t make sense to me for it to be built so close to Marley...especially if they’re able to spot each other from that distance.
9. Get away from Yelena, you bitch. You made her cry.
10. But why do they think Yelena would know where Eren is when he’s clearly with the Titans lmao.
11. What the fuck. Why is Magath getting a redemption arc. I swear to God if he gets to be redeemed but Eren is spun as an evil person at the end, I will kick someone.
12. Magath’s little “I’m so sorry” speech was so random though?? One second he was beating up Yelena then he turns around and apologizes??
13. Onyankopon is a sweetheart, helping Yelena. Must protect him at all costs.
14. Armin are you fucking serious. YOU ARE ALL FUCKING HYPOCRITES FHSGSKAHWJDJDJD. YOU’RE MAD AT EREN FOR THE SAME THINGS YOU’RE EXCUSING YOURSELF AND MAGATH FOR RIGHT NOW?? So y’all are just better because you’re killing less people, is that it? 🤦🏻♀️
15. Omg Floch is so fucking crazy. Jeeesus.
16. Kiyomi has guts calling him out like that. And she makes an excellent point.
17. Floch ain’t buying it lmao. He’s one step ahead of them.
18. Why is Daz shook that he removed the detonator if he did it? Or was that a sign that someone else tampered with it? I’m so confused by that part.
19. Damn Kiyomi!!! She’s such a badass wtf. Colour me impressed.
20. Floch is literally all talk. He’s such a wimp lmao. Kiyomi just pulled his arm a little and he started freaking out.
21. Ugh this is so upsetting. I can see why the others from Paradis feel betrayed by the 104th in the Alliance...I know I probably would be on the Jaegerists’ side if I was in that situation having been through what they’ve been through. Also, it’s so hypocritical how they’re still killing to save the world. Except they’re killing their own people and comrades. Isn’t that worse?
22. I agree with the title of the chapter. Technically...the 104th are betraying their own people.
23. Is that Armin remembering Bertolt because of their Titan connection? The placement kinda makes it look like both Armin and Connie might’ve been remembering that day though.
24. Well damn. Connie snapped completely. But this was another of those “who’s gonna have the guts to shoot first?” moments.
Overall, not a bad chapter but I’m just not impressed with the Alliance for their superior morality...
I’m guessing next chapter will be the conclusion to this battle, with Floch, Kiyomi and Yelena resolving their arcs. Then the volume will end with them reaching Eren by plane and audio spoiler, here we come.
#snk spoilers#snk 128#snk thoughts#rant#snk predictions#historia pov probably coming with eren’s pov after all#my opinion
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Marvel’s Road to the Thunderbolts in the MCU
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The first phase of the Marvel Cinematic Universe had a simple mission: build up to the creation of the Avengers. The next two phases went further by setting the stage for Thanos and his quest for the Infinity Stones, culminating in one of the biggest movies of all time in Avengers: Endgame. While MCU Phase 4 is a mix of Disney+ TV shows and theatrical movie releases, there hasn’t been an established narrative goal just yet. So what are they building towards?
One belief is that we’re getting an MCU incarnation of the Thunderbolts or its sister team, the Dark Avengers.
The Thunderbolts first showed up in 1997, created by Kurt Busiek. In the aftermath of the Onslaught event, the Fantastic Four and Avengers were seemingly vaporized. Not only were these two major teams gone, but they were the superheroes people trusted the most. What remained was the likes of Spider-Man, the X-Men, and the Hulk. Not exactly media sweethearts.
To fill this heroic void, Baron Zemo came up with a scheme where he took members of the Masters of Evil, dressed them up with fake superhero identities, and had them gain the public’s trust in hopes that it would lead to world domination. Despite being a ruse, certain members of the Thunderbolts came to realize they wanted to truly be heroes and opposed Zemo. Hawkeye eventually took over the team and they became a group of outlaw heroes fighting for redemption. A reformed Zemo soon took the reins again, once again trying to take over the world…but this time for the good of all humanity.
The Thunderbolts then became a government-run team and acted as Marvel’s counterpart to DC’s Suicide Squad. New leader Norman Osborn politicked his way into running the Avengers, where he copied Zemo’s old idea of dressing up villains as heroes. And so, the Dark Avengers were born, featuring such members as Bullseye pretending to be Hawkeye and Venom pretending to be Spider-Man. Unlike the Thunderbolts, the Dark Avengers were an example of failed redemption on all fronts and the team crumbled. Once Osborn was ousted, Luke Cage took over and the group became far less corrupt.
The Thunderbolts team has been reborn again and again. It’s been seen as a force of good, a force of evil pretending to be good, and a force of evil taking down worse threats. And now it looks to be coming to the MCU.
Let’s look at who will be and who could be major players to this plot down the line:
Valentina Allegra de Fontaine
In the comics, Contessa Valentina Allegra de Fontaine was a triple agent who constantly either worked for SHIELD or against it while being an on-again/off-again love interest of Nick Fury. So she’s perfect for whatever they’re doing with her as she plays up a more curious version of Fury’s iconic visit to Tony Stark’s mansion from the Iron Man post-credits.
We don’t know who Valentina works for and how high up the ladder she is, but she does appear to be setting up something. Whatever her Thunderbolts-like team is called, we’re left wondering why they will exist and how many movies and TV shows will we have to sit through before we finally get an answer.
US Agent
John Walker’s role in The Falcon and the Winter Soldier was one of the more interesting parts of the show, even if they didn’t quite land the ending. The US government’s attempt at a new Captain America meant well, but he was only the right person for the job on paper. Too haunted by his military exploits, too frustrated by not getting the respect he wanted, and feeling inadequate due to not being a super soldier, Walker injected himself with a black market serum that gave him the physical boost he needed. It also helped drive him over the edge when Walker’s best friend and partner Battlestar died during a mission and he got a bit too violent while in public.
Disgraced and discharged from his position, Walker was visited by Valentina, who gave him a new lease on life as US Agent. Valentina’s people realize that someone with Walker’s abilities shouldn’t be discarded so easily. Take away the idea that he’s tarnishing a legacy and someone like him could be very, very useful.
In the comics, a wheelchair-bound Walker acted as a warden at the Raft, Marvel’s supervillain prison and, for a time, the headquarters for the Thunderbolts. He did lead the team very, very briefly when it was retitled Dark Avengers, but the series was cancelled immediately after and it was quietly forgotten about. Still, the adventure did allow him to regrow his missing limbs!
For the MCU, this does suggest that this team won’t be a publicly-celebrated unit. You can use US Agent to kick ass all you want, but I doubt Valentina wants a media spotlight on him in any way.
Yelena Belova
As shown in the post-credits for Black Widow, Yelena Belova has been working for Valentina for at least a little while. She’s a paid assassin and she’s going to be going after Hawkeye in the near future on his upcoming Disney+ series. Much like US Agent, she’s a darker replacement of an Avenger who has been taken off the board. Maybe not as easily manipulated as Walker will likely be, though.
The Yelena version of Black Widow was a member of the Thunderbolts in the comics…sort of. It eventually turned out that it was really Natasha disguising herself as Yelena for the sake of doing undercover work against Norman Osborn. Well, I think we can agree that they won’t be doing that twist any time soon.
The Abomination
“We have a Hulk.”
If they’re building a roster full of Avengers knockoffs, it seems rather suspicious that Emil Blonsky is suddenly becoming relevant again. Not only is he supposed to be coming back for the She-Hulk show, but he has a cameo in the Shang-Chi trailer where he’s taking on Wong in an underground cage fight.
Abomination is someone that the government wanted on the Avengers from the very beginning, even in spite of the damage he caused in Harlem. He’s no longer in prison and the events of She-Hulk could end up working in his favor legally. The cage fighting may suggest that he’s a bit aimless, but for a soldier who loves nothing more than to fight, Valentina’s team might be the perfect place for him.
In terms of the comics, Abomination never had anything to do with the Thunderbolts. Though now that I think about it, the Thunderbolts series did a one point focus on super-powered individuals taking part in underground fight clubs. Hm…
Various Thunderbolts Leaders
As mentioned, there have been a lot of different variations of the Thunderbolts and the team has had a handful of different leaders to push the focus in different directions. Four of those leaders happen to have recent roles in the MCU: Baron Zemo, Hawkeye, the Winter Soldier, and General Ross. It’s also very possible that the team is named after the latter considering his nickname is “Thunderbolt Ross.”
Luke Cage and Wilson Fisk are also notable Thunderbolts leaders, but the wonky relationship with the Netflix shows makes them unlikely to get involved.
Hawkeye and Bucky could easily take over the operation and add a little purity to the situation. But if Baron Zemo gets involved? Man, that could be unpredictable and interesting.
Ghost
With Norman Osborn in charge of things, Ghost was thrown into the Thunderbolts and became a major recurring member. Considering he was blatantly written as being Marvel’s Rorschach, it wasn’t he biggest deal when the MCU gender-swapped him and gave him a different personality. The version from Ant-Man and the Wasp is still pretty nihilistic when it comes to authority.
Ghost has been a huge question mark since the mid-credits scene of Ant-Man and the Wasp. The heroes were trying to mine the quantum materials that would normalize Ghost and heal her, only for Thanos’ snap to kick in. We don’t even know if Ghost went away due to the snap, but it’s possible that she was abandoned by those who said they’d help her and that could push her in a very dangerous position.
Considering her past as a SHIELD weapon, she’d make for an interesting member of the group.
Taskmaster
Taskmaster is a lot like Ghost. Not just in that she’s a gender-swapped version of the comic original with a different personality, history, and mission but in the same character arc of going from villain to someone with a new lease on life and opportunity to be more. Taskmaster was last seen being rescued by an army of liberated Black Widows. With her own future to decide, she’s basically in the same boat as Yelena, so it’s fully believable that she too might be working for Valentina.
Also, Taskmaster only just recently joined the Thunderbolts in the comics. That could be an intentional attempt at synergy. Marvel’s been pulling that kind of thing for years.
White Vision
WandaVision ended with the confusing fate of Vision’s reanimated body. SWORD was able to awaken Vision, now without his memories, personality, or color scheme. White Vision fought a magical construct of his original self (AKA “WandaVision”) and allowed his memories to be reinstated. After that, he peaced out and flew off to parts unknown.
Scarlet Witch is meant to be a major player in Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, but I’m not expecting White Vision to be a part of that. It would make sense for White Vision to pop up as part of a group of grim doppelgangers. Even if he’s just a dark doppelganger of himself. I imagine the guy needs something constructive to do while keeping a low profile.
Speaking of Doctor Strange…
Karl Mordo
Remember when Mordo became so disillusioned with the Ancient One that he crippled a man for the sake of making a point about how much sorcerers suck? Then he was all, “Haha, I’m going to get rid of all magic users!” Yeah, that was about 10 years ago according to the MCU’s chronology. Good hustle, guy.
The whole Multiverse of Madness thing makes me wonder how much of a role Mordo will have to play in it. And that’s fine because you know what? I bet Valentina would love to have someone like Mordo on her roster. Not only would she have a Dr. Strange counterpart, but getting rid of all magic on Earth seems like the kind of thing a shadowy operative might get behind.
The Vulture
The Spider-Man/Sony deal mucks this up, especially if they’re pushing for some kind of Sinister Six situation, but since Spider-Man: Homecoming, I’ve always thought Vulture would be a perfect member of the MCU Thunderbolts.
See, the thing about Vulture is that the Michael Keaton version is absolutely nothing like the Mr. Burns lookalike comic version outside of fighting Spider-Man and having the ability to fly. In fact, MCU Vulture has a lot more in common with Abner Jenkins. Jenkins started off as blue collar working man who later used his engineering genius to become a Spider-Man supervillain as the Beetle.
As a founding Thunderbolts member, Jenkins became MACH-I (renaming himself after many armor updates) and was one of the first to realize that maybe he was better off being a good guy. He even led the team for a little bit. Considering how sympathetic and likeable MCU Vulture has been, some kind of Thunderbolts/Dark Avengers situation could help redeem him down the line.
Those Yet to be Introduced
Just like MACH, there are certain key members of the comics Thunderbolts who have yet to show up in the MCU. Perhaps we’ll see them soon enough. For instance, there is speculation that Moonstone will probably be a villain in the Captain Marvel sequel The Marvels. Not only does she have similar powers as the heroine, but she also posed as her in Dark Avengers.
The Fixer/Techno is another big one as the team’s resident tech guy and loyal Zemo henchman. Atlas, who has size-changing powers, is easily someone who can show up in the next Ant-Man movie. Jolt is…actually, we really don’t need Jolt.
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The biggest name to not show up is Songbird. Formerly the villain Screaming Mimi, Melissa Gold is practically the heart and soul of the Thunderbolts. She’s the one who came out of it better than anyone to the point that she was even an Avenger for a little while. If you want to put together a cynical Avengers knockoff and have someone turn it into something optimistic, Songbird is the one you need to throw in.
The post Marvel’s Road to the Thunderbolts in the MCU appeared first on Den of Geek.
from Den of Geek https://ift.tt/3z9IfTW
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MCU?
omg, this is gonna get craaazy…
who i will protect at all costs: bucky, shuri, natasha, steve, darcy lewis & dr jane foster, foggy nelson, karen page, jessica jones
who deserves better: omg, this is a long list [clears throat]: jane foster, darcy lewis, natasha romanoff, clint barton, james rhodes, wanda maximoff, SKYE, foggy nelson
who was killed off too early: pietro.
who i used to hate but now i love:
who i used to love but now i hate: daisy (hate is strong, and it’s not true but I can’t stand her. I mean, I gave up on AoS largely because they ignored her making her own path once she found her parents in order to make her into Quake/Daisy. She could have honored them by taking the last name and keeping Skye. But uuugh just no.)
who needs to be killed off asap: ward. how is he not dead? Great actor, but come on. Vision. I just don’t care about him.
who is unfairly hated: Steve and Tony. Like, everyone fucking chill. They’re both heroes who are flawed and have a tremendous amount of emotional baggage. Stop trying to make one better. They’ve both fucked up and been screwed over. You can understand something without losing your shit.
who is unfairly loved: loki - look, he’s fun and tom is amazing-no arguments here. But loki’s done some really bad shit. You can feel bad for what he’s been though that doesn’t mean he gets a pass. vision - look, humanoid doesn’t get humanity, there’s some lolz, to be sure. And I love Paul. But as a character I’m not at all invested in him. There’s no substance to the character.
who needs to sort out their priorities: everyone in the mcu.
who needs a hug: holy shit, everyone? bucky, natasha, tony, steve, wanda, gamora, nebula, thor, valkyrie, everyone except thanos. Or Ultron, fuck that guy.
who needs to get out of their current relationship: not current per-say, but if it needs to come out that Yelena Belova impersonated her for a while and got that started shit with Bruce started. But Clint was like, NOPE. NOT NATASHA.
who the writers love: loki - they know he’s a fan favorite so he’s staying forever.
who needs a better storyline: hahaha, natasha, no joke. Wanda too. Clint, holy shit Joss, way to fuck a great character over. Steve Rogers should get a third movie sometime… GIVE ME BACK JANE AND DARCY
who has an amazing redemption arc: yondu. holy shit I cried. also, tony & thor.
who is hot af: steve, natasha, bucky, t’challa, gamora, darcy lewis, thor, okoye, valkyrie, sam, nakia…so so many
who belongs in jail: loki. HYDRA. BURN THEM ALL.
who needs to be revived from the dead: well, pietro. But also: Betty Ross, Helen Cho, Darcy Lewis, Jane Foster, CLINT MOTHER FUCKIN’ BARTON.
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