The Sins of The Father / The Sons of Loki

Váli and Narfi

“We were supposed to die together, you promised.”

GOW | NORSE MYTHOLOGY: “VÁLI & NARFI” It’s clear that “Hel” will one day appear in future installments, as hinted in both GOW (2018) and Ragnarök, but anyone who is a myth enthusiast knows that Loki had other children besides his monstrous offspring in Norse Mythology because interestingly enough, GOW’s wiki community decided to include "Váli & Narfi" despite no evidence of their existence whatsoever throughout the Norse era.

Of course, it’s also a fandom site; while they can be a reliable source, said sources on their encyclopedia are sometimes inaccurate. Knowing the impossibility of their existence, I also thought about how they can coexist throughout the GOWverse (EDIT UPDATE 2/1/2024: Recently, the GOW's wiki community updated Atreus' "uncertain future" category and the links to Váli's & Narfi's wiki pages no longer existed. Doesn't mean it'll stop me from enjoying my fun! 😎). And the more I thought about it, the more apparent it became that they’re essential for the franchise…but it’s more like my personal headcanon rather than my “crack” theory. And so- I thought it would be fun to share my overly long detailed analysis with those who are fixated on Atreus’ other (im)possible children as much as I am because I need this to get it out of my system since they have been living rent-free in my head for almost a year just now.

Not only I'm doing this for shits and giggles- but also because this blog is now officially a Váli & Narfi stan account! Kratos would have LOVED his grandsons if they ever appeared in GOW, but it's very unlikely that would happen. This analysis would be a long one...so bear with me!

I think it would be poetic for God of War to end off including Váli & Narfi (alongside Atreus) for the final conclusion of the franchise. And yes, Hel would be an adult in this timeskip, contrary to popular belief that they were children in Norse Mythology. Despite their unfortunate demise, their backgrounds are nothing like their half-siblings’ in the Norse Mythos, making them the most ordinary of all Loki’s children. But you know what?- The concept of Váli & Narfi being the epitome of normality of all Loki’s offspring gave me an a idea; I’m not sure if anyone has noticed, but Váli & Narfi (from Norse Mythology) exhibit some similarities to Kratos & Deimos. Before the Olympians (Athena and Ares) pursued one of the brothers due to a doomsday prophecy, Kratos & Deimos believed they were mere mortals during childhood as they still fit the epitome of normality as children, similarly to Váli & Narfi. They’re also gods at birth, but the only difference is that Váli & Narfi most likely knew about their divine nature, whereas Kratos (excluding Deimos) only discovered it later in adulthood (a silly parallel, but I still think it counts). Another example would be in the parallel dynamics of Váli & Kratos, as they both had experiences where they succumbed to their primal instincts in different circumstances; Váli unwillingly turned into a wolf and killed his brother driven by primal instincts under the Æsir’s (or presumably Odin’s) influence, almost similar to how Kratos was deceived and unaware, killed his first wife and daughter fueled by his primal desire for blood under Ares’ influence. While Váli’s fate remains unknown after Loki's Punishment, we can infer that both Váli & Kratos are the only survivors other than their brother. While the deaths of Narfi & Deimos are an obvious parallel, they're also linked to Bounds and Punishment in distinct ways; like Váli, Narfi was punished with his entrails used as bounds in retribution against his father, as well as due to his relation with Loki while Deimos, on the other hand, was bound and punished due to his existence as the "Marked Warrior" (same thing goes with Kratos since he too was also bound and punished at one point in Ascension).

Also; they were all subjected to violence as children inflicted by Gods. Consequently, it ultimately led the downfall of both Æsir & Olympians, as predicted by their prophecy. The prophecy of the "Marked Warrior" bringing destruction upon Olympus began the moment they abducted Deimos. The sufferings of Kratos' family (including Sparta and Pandora) at the hands of Gods contributes the downfall of Olympus. Their tragedies are the major cause of Kratos' justified vengeance to destroy the entire pantheon, ultimately leading the devastation of the Greek world.

In Norse Mythology (with my limited knowledge); Odin's and the Æsir's retaliation on Loki's monstrous children, particularly Fenrir, due to prophecies contributes their downfall in Ragnarök, especially with their involvement in Loki's Punishment. However, I believe that the suffering of Váli & Narfi at the hands of Æsir Gods is the primary cause for Loki's justified desire for vengeance- the Æsir's use of Narfi's entrails, his own son, as restraints adds insult to injury, intensifying Loki's anger. Obviously, Loki joined forces with those against Æsir Gods with his army of Hel's people while the events of Ragnarök lead the devastation throughout the lands.

But since this is GOW- I found this YouTube comment, which I've kept for quite some time, that perfectly said my thoughts out loud:

With the absence of Loki's Punishment; not only Kratos saved Váli & Narfi from Æsir's (particularly Odin's) wrath, he also prevented a similar tragedy that would inflict upon his grandsons the same way that Gods once inflicted upon him and Deimos as children (for now...just because Loki's Punishment never happened in Norse era doesn't mean they're safe. It's possible that the fates of Váli & Narfi could still happen in different scenarios- but this is a happy ending I'm talking about, so let's keep it that way 😌).

Now, moving along!- Notice the quotation marks around their names in the title post? There's a reason for that. It would have been so simple for Santa Monica to have Atreus name his sons "Váli & Narfi" as everyone expected from Norse Mythology, but I have to object. For several reasons; from what I've heard, there has been a debate about whether Váli is a son of Odin or Loki, or both Valis existed as sperate characters. Additionally, in GOWR, there's already a boss character named Vali (The Oath Guard), which I assumed it's a cultural practice for parents to name their child after a Norse god in Scandinavian countries (correct me if I'm wrong)- but I find it unlikely for Atreus to name one of his children after an Æsir (or any god in general). Similarly, Narfi shares a name with another Giant unrelated to Loki whatsoever. And given the wide variety of Gods and other mythological figures we've seen from Greek Mythology depicted in GOW, it wouldn't be surprising if other Narfi and (particularly) Váli Odinson were to mentioned or featured in future installments. And lastly, "Loki" is known as Atreus in GOW. "Hel," obviously, will be given a different name in the future. If Santa Monica can give "Loki" & "Hel" alternative names through creative liberties...then they can do the same thing with "Váli & Narfi." HERE'S MY IDEA: If you're not aware or need a reminder, Atreus gets to learn about Deimos during "Animal Instincts" side quest. Whether you choose to bring Atreus or Freya doesn't matter, it doesn't change the fact that Santa Monica had intended for Atreus to know about his uncle. It's still canon either way. And ngl "Death can have me when it earns me" from Kratos' line seems kinda foreshadowing...but I digress. Kratos named his son after Atreus of Sparta, the man who smiled in the darkest times, reminding others of the presence of humanity among war machines. I've also seen some suggestions that Hel's name could be Faye, Laufey, or even Calliope...but for "Váli & Narfi"...imagine how emotional it'll be if Atreus were to name his sons, Kratos (II) & Deimos (II). Váli Kratos II; named after his grandfather, was once a monster with the ability to change and open his heart into a benevolent god, symbolizing as the beacon of hope. And Narfi Deimos II; named after his great uncle, whom Atreus had known but never met, but wishes they had, honored his uncle by naming his son after him. There are hearsay, or statements from Cory Barlog (correct me if I'm wrong), that Kratos couldn't bring himself to name his son after Deimos due to painful memories. Atreus, on the other hand, is open to idea of his own son bearing Deimos' name...

EDIT UPDATE 3/7/2024: Just recently discovered in Greek Culture, it's common for children to be named after their grandparents- in which, aligns with my case for "Váli" to be named after his grandfather! Even though "Narfi" is named after his great uncle, I like to imagine this also apply the same thing in the context of GOW!

And also!- besides Narfi Lokison having a similar name with the other Narfi, it gets a little more confusing that there's a alternate version where Narfi's brother is named "Nari," and this time, Narfi is the one who turned into a wolf and kills Nari.

But Narfi's name later changed to Váli...

I initially assumed this version of Narfi & Nari was created due to speculation about Váli being Odin's son instead of Loki's or error translation. Nevertheless, this gave me another idea... Small reminder that Kratos sees himself and Deimos through Speki & Svanna. How about we merge both versions (Váli & Narfi / Narfi & Nari) together? Both can shapeshift into wolves, establishing their connection to Loki. Not only they mirror Kratos & Demios through Speki & Svanna, but also made them character foils for Kratos & Deimos (and considering the fact that Kratos mistaken Speki & Svanna as boys while foreshadowing his doting relationship with his future grandsons 🥺🥺🥺 lemme be delusion).

Because if you think about it...both his father and uncle are reunited once again, reliving their childhoods together through "Váli & Narfi" that Kratos & Deimos never had as children.

And that's about it! If you managed read through this wall of text, then congratulations!- here's a quick idea of what I envisioned Váli/Kratos II as your award:

He has his grandfather's looks in youth (which I tried to replicate) along with Kratos' amber eyes and Atreus' freckles. Narfi/Deimos II, on the other hand, is difficult to imagine...but it's very obvious he was born with the iconic birthmark like his great uncle. Anywho, hope you guys enjoy this read! It took me months to get this finish.

"Chilhood best friends!"

The lokissons are doomed to befriend Thor's family, no matter what! Vali and Thrud are the definition of friends to eventual lovers, cannon! 😼👍

Book of the Day - Loki and Sigyn

Today’s Book of the Day is Loki and Sigyn: Lessons on Chaos, Laughter & Loyalty from the Norse Gods, written by Lea Svendsen in 2022 and published by Llewellyn Publications. Lea Svendsen is a writer and expert in the Norse pantheon. She has given many presentations and led workshop-style discussions about Loki and Sigyn and their role in the Heathen practices. Loki and Sigyn, by Lea Svendsen I…

View On WordPress

There’s a mystery in this quiet port town

[Aevum Academy - alluringAllegro, Fell - elliotabletop, Audacity - stormsfordragon, Váli - highstrider2254, Avilla - jezzaworks18]

❛ wait, you’re leaving already? ❜ from Vali

The sun would soon rise and a new day would begin. Somehow Týr had managed to spend the entire night at the inn talking and drinking with Váli, it wasn’t until yet another bottle was emptied that Týr realised how much time had passed. With a quiet sigh they stood up from their seat and were about to leave when Váli’s question stopped them dead in their tracks. To anyone else, their question might seem innocent enough, but Týr knew the heartbreak behind it. “It’s getting late, Váli, but I’m just going home.” They assured him, but they knew their promise meant nothing. “I will be back soon to bother you until you kick me out. You can come to my place for breakfast, too, if you want. I'm sure Kai would love it if you did.”

#Inktober day 10 I'm not following a prompt this year, but I had a lot of fun drawing my characters from my Norse Mythology book and thought I'd continue that. Now we have Váli the God of Vengeance. He was another deity I wasn't sure what he would look like, but I like where he's at. Like with Bragi, I plan to do more once it's time for his full concept, but I have an idea of making him a psycho when in battle. Like he's not a bad guy, but you wouldn't want to fight him if you saw him. Anyway, I hope you like my take on Váli, I'll be working on Vidar next. For more info on this and future characters, follow my #Writergram account, @a_j_torres0 #WhimsicalFeatures #Artgram #DigitalArtist #DigitalInktober #DigitalArt #DigitalDrawing #Procreate #ArtistOfInstagram #ArtistOfIg #Fantasy #NewAdult #NAFantasy #NABook #NorseMythology #Inktober2022 #Váli #Vali #GodOfVengeance #PrinceOfAsgard #Norsetober #NorseGod #ProcreateArt #ProcreateArtist https://www.instagram.com/p/Cj8SpOrr9B8/?igshid=NGJjMDIxMWI=

gay men but they’re both only sort of men and also get mistaken for girls constantly

i post all my oc stuff on @vampyr-bats now btw

Váli & Thrúd doing a little play fighting. Thoroughly based on and inspired by @sigyn-foxyposts’ piece https://www.tumblr.com/sigyn-foxyposts/745579562174398464/chilhood-best-friends

GOW | EGYPTIAN MYTHOLOGY: "NARFI & VÁLI (OUTDATED)" This post is highly inspired from imagining Egypt created by @feathered-serpents! Additionally, I also like the idea of Kratos' descendants from all various mythologies (along with Atreus taking the role as Set), particularly Greek, Norse, and Egyptian. Check out their stuff if you can! What also made me write this prompt in the first place is from their ask post with Anubis being "Hel" as a creative twist in GOW. Don't get me wrong- I think Anubis as "Hel" (along being Kratos' grandchild) is a cool idea! Especially when Santa Monica often takes creative liberties since GOW is not entirely accurate to begin with. But at the same time, I personally have to disagree. While yes- the franchise is inspired from various Mythologies, there are some accurate depictions that Santa Monica made in GOW. As far as I know, both Hel and Anubis are one of the most recognizable Gods as separate figures within the Pantheons of Norse and Egypt, so it wouldn't be surprising that Santa Monica already made Anubis as his own character for GOW6. Not only that- I did a little digging on both Norse and Egyptian Mythology, and to my shocking discovery, I figured out how Anubis and Hel can coexist together through "Narfi & Váli" because it coincidentally made sense (for me at least)! It's also giving me brainrot for a couple months just now- I just had to write this down. Not only I'm doing it for shits and giggles, I'm also giving out my tiny suggestion that feathered-serpents could use for their fan project 🥺🥺🥺. If not, that's okay. At least I get to share it with those who are as interested in Atreus' (im)possible sons as I am. This analysis is going to be a long- so bear with me! :)

I think it would make absolute sense if "Narfi" takes the role as Anubis due to their associations with death. Not only "nár" from Narfi's name means corpse, the significance behind his Nordic name also means "demon of the dead" (a fitting name for the Ghost of Sparta's grandson). Additionally, Narfi was mentioned twice in one of Hel's kennings; "the sister of the wolf and of Narfi" & "the sister of Nari."

Since there has been some debate whether Váli is the son of Loki or Odin, this would make a easier route to establish Anubis as Hel's brother.

But if "Váli" were to be Atreus' son in GOW, then what role does he resides if his brother is Anubis from Egyptian Pantheon? Hear this...I read up Egyptian Mythology again and turns out, Anubis has a lesser-known brother named Wepwawet:

He was said to be a God of Funerary Rites and War, linking this connection to Váli bringing death upon his brother in Loki's Punishment as well as Kratos and the whole franchise.

And Wepwawet means "opener of the ways" just like Váli opened up Narfi lol.

His animal association are wolves and is often depicted as one! Not only this links with Váli turning into a wolf in Norse Mythology, but also links with Atreus'/Loki's connection with wolves.

And interesting enough, he's also associated with bow and arrows...

Atreus was always reminded of his mother by the bow. Faye had taught him archery and hunting, which is why he always uses it. Just imagine the parallels of Atreus teaching Wepwawet the same skills, just as Faye did with Atreus.

Additional info. that would qualify him as a suitable Spartan warrior...

Wepwawet and Ra...

This is going to be a reach- but the phase of Wepwawet being the "opener of the the sky" could be his manifestation of god powers inherited from his great-grandfather, Zeus (especially Atreus if you know from 2018) I know Helios is Ra's Greek equivalent, but both Ra and Zeus are sky deities and the Kings of Gods in their own Pantheons. But this is GOW we're free to use creative liberties however we want. 😎

And also, Wepwawet depicted with white/grayish fur and possible his hair would be a genetic trait he herited from Zeus since Zeus himself is born with the same hair color... ☠☠☠

And there you have it! Both "Narfi & Váli" as Anubis & Wepwawet while Hel is still "Hel" in GOW. Atreus has the whole army of the dead from both Norse and Egypt Pantheon.

I also wanted to add that both Greece and Egypt had cultural ties in their religion, leading to the existence of Hermanubis. So- in my personal take, Narfi/Anubis is also Hermanubis while he & Váli/Wepwawet are very leaning towards their Greek heritage. Besides the trio being the guidance of the underworld with soul magic from their Jötnar heritage, it's even more interesting that Kratos was originally going to be the Grim Reaper by the end of GOW3 (even Zeus, disguised as the Grave Digger, said he's death itself in Ghost of Sparta). So having his grandchildren as the Gods of Death really solidify this connection.

But knowing Santa Monica, I'm sure they have other unique ideas in the works for future installments involving Egyptian Mythology (along with the unlikely inclusion of Narfi & Váli, which we all know will never happen- and that's the fun part 🤭🤭🤭) so it's best to keep our expectations low.

Regardless, it's still fun to theorized and share these thoughts with anyone! Hope you all enjoy this read!

EDIT UPDATE 3/27/2024: My opinion had changed. I don't hold this view anymore.

Váli Dezsőpót. Beech Forest, 1974.

Dezső Váli (Hungarian, b. 1942) - Change of an Era, Oil on fiberboard, 40 x 90 cm (1977)

Sterling and Váli after finally getting through their enemies to lovers journey in Kids on Bikes

[Váli belongs to highstrider2254]

sadly the whole "assigning music lyrics to fictional characters" doesn't apply to me bc like all the music i listen to is in some language i don't know

Hey there, friend! So happy to see you here! 🤗

I'm going to let the twins answer your question and will make a separate post for the drabbe as soon as I wrote it! Hope that's okay! 🤗

And now... Áki, Váli, question for you guys!

Váli: I greet you, kind Midgardian! Finally we get to answer a question, too! Áki, come over!

Áki: I'm here, brother, no need to shout.

Áki: Greetings, mortal lady. Now what is the question?

Váli: Our favourite memory with mother and father.

Áki: Well, there are a lot, but for me personally, I would say the first time dad showed me how to hold a sword properly. All those years ago, when I was a little boy.

Váli: Yes, I can actually remember. I didn't like it as much as you did, though.

Áki: Everybody knows that, brother. *winks*

Váli: *blushes*

Áki: Now, what is your favourite memory?

Váli: Hmm... Like you said, there are a lot, but I think I would choose all the times where mom or dad cuddled up in bed with us after a heavy snowstorm has hit Jotunheim. They always brought us sweets, tea and read another bedtime story to us. It was great.

Áki: *smiles* I agree.

divider by @jiyascepter

Thank you so much for the question @asgards-princess-of-mischief ! 🤗💚