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springbloggy · 7 months

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Kris: A horrifying theory that literally came to me in a dream

Ever read and watch so many Deltarune theories it comes to you subconsciously? This was the subject of my last 2 dreams. Now it coming to me in a dream is kinda silly, but the evidence? It's scarily convincing.

In modern cultures, Zombies are undead people that rise from the grave. Typically Zombies in modern stories are caused by viruses that spread to other people, usually through bites. Zombies are mindless, stumbling around to place to place, only becoming powerful and strong when "on the hunt".

Besides stumbling about, Kris doesn't match any of this. However, this is the traditional idea of zombies, the origins of the zombie myth is where things become a whole lot more interesting. Zombies were originally created by Haiti folklore, as dead people revived by necromancy, usually done via a bokor, the Haitian counterpart to a witch or sorcerer. Zombies are then placed as the Bokor's personal slave, having no free will of their own. There was also a spiritual variation, where a zombie astral, aka a zombie soul, could be used to enhance the bokor's spiritual powers. The zombie astral could also be sealed in a bottle to be sold to bring luck, healing, or business success. Each type of zombie, the flesh and blood, and the spiritual kind, are missing one half of their soul from the original whole person it came from.

Now ok, what does any of these have to do with Kris? Well this is where things become weird, scary, and unconventional to the typical theory.

Kris died

To understand this, lets look into what we currently know about Kris' backstory. Kris was a trouble making kid, often pulling pranks. But they weren't mean spirited about it and made close friends with the Holiday family specifically. One day, something traumatic happened to Kris and the Holidays that tore the two families apart. This is hinted to be the disappearance of Dess, the older sibling of Noelle and the daughter of the mayor. There is also a bunker in the woods that Kris is traumatized by. This bunker is implied to be one of the last areas where Kris, Dess, Noelle, and Asriel played in before Dess' ultimate disappearance.

But then, years later, Kris and Susie fall in a dark world. Judging by how scared Kris seemed during the fall into the first dark world, I don't think this is Kris' first venture into one at all. Not only that, but I think dark worlds is what caused Kris' trauma.

So lets set the stage: Kris & co. go into the bunker on a dare, perhaps by Kris and fall into a dark world. Noelle, scared, stressed, and confused pulls snowgrave. Now most theories I see go into this route have her pulling it on Dess, who is trying to calm down Noelle. This I always found unconvincing, especially as more and more signs of Dess being trapped in the games code come out. But if Noelle pulls snowgrave on Kris, suddenly things make more sense for what happens later on in the game. Now the scary voice coming from Kris commanding Noelle to do the snowgrave spell is a lot more sinister if this is the same spell that caused Kris' death.

Anyways Kris, ya know, dies from this and everyone is heartbroken and Dess, being as headstrong as she is, runs off into the dark world to find the solution. Becoming lost in the process.

In comes Gaster, Gaster takes in the player's soul and one half of Kris' soul and fuses it together, placing it inside of Kris. Kris becomes an undead being. They are not the same as they once were and is now under the player's total control for most of the time. For the other characters looking in, Kris only had a near-death experience, but Kris knows the truth.

Kris, Noelle, and Asriel run out of the bunker dark world without Dess. This sparks the investigation by the mayor to find her missing daughter, Asgore can't find Dess, gets fired, etc. Then Deltarune begins.

So now you're wondering, what happened to Kris' other soul half? Well..

Ralsei is Kris' other soul-half

Many theories of Ralsei I found kinda unconvincing. If Ralsei is Asriel's dust, then why is there so much about Asriel returning home. If Ralsei is a titan, why is he so neatly connected to Asriel? It just leaves too much blanks. One of the most popular theories is that Ralsei is Kris' monstersona brought to life. For context, Ralsei has pink horns, while Kris used to wear a pink horned headband growing up to fit in monster society. This makes a lot of sense, but also leaves so many blanks to some of Ralsei's more suspicious moments.

But I think zombie Kris theory is right, then suddenly this makes a lot more sense, but now Ralsei is a much more creepy character.

One of the things that make up the zombie myth is how the soul is split into two: the body soul, which performs bodily functions, and the free soul, which is the person's true self and can leave the body and wander to the afterlife. I believe that Kris only has one half of their free soul and the other half, the player, makes up for their body soul. The other half of Kris' free soul makes up Ralsei, a personification of the monster that Kris wanted to be growing up. Ralsei has all the childhood innocence Kris used to have before becoming traumatized by the bunker, but also has no sense of self due to his incomplete soul. But I think he is well aware that Kris has the other half of the soul and the two are planning to fuse it back together.

This sentence always appears when the player is focused away from Kris and Ralsei. But why? Its a mystery that has stumped many. But if I am right, now it makes sense. Have the player gone away so they don't find out that Kris and Ralsei are planning to get rid of the player's soul in order to fuse their own, so Kris can be a whole person again.

There's also the theory about Ralsei being "attracted" to the player's soul, however I think it could be the other way around. Ralsei isn't attracted to the player's soul, he's attracted to Kris' soul half.

The title screen

This comes from @mirror-ralsei's title screen theory.

youtube

The title screen adds to the overall theme of multiplication and division in Deltarune:

The SOUL, and all the other parts of the logo, appear to be divided again and again, gradually fading with each division until there's nothing left of them. -mirror-ralsei

The title screen could foreshadow the ending...but it could also foreshadow what happened to Kris.

Kris dies.

Through some miracle, Gaster finds Kris' soul, but it is damaged beyond belief.

Gaster fuses half of Kris' soul, the half that makes up Kris' "true self" with the player's soul.

The other half divides off to become Ralsei

The twinkling snowgrave sound effect at the end is an indicator to what happened to Kris. They died due to the snowgrave spell.

Flowey

Deltarune plays with inversions and subversions of Undertale a lot. The most obvious one being the theme of each game. Deltarune, your choices don't matter, Undertale you must stay determined to make the right choices.

Kris is the Flowey inversion. Flowey is a soulless flower given life with Asriel's dust and the souls of fallen children. Kris is a dead human injected with half of their own soul and the soul of the player.

Mother time!

The mother series is Undertale and Deltarune's greatest inspiration. Many of the games themes and ideas stem from their.

Undertale is a combination of Mother 1 and 2, the most apparent of this combination is through the final boss of most routes: Flowey/Asriel.

Asriel is similar in many ways to Giegue from mother 1. Both are the children of their race (alien for Giegue, monster for Asriel). Both had to make a tough decision regarding humans. Giegue had to decide to pull war against humanity, even though he was raised by human parents, Asriel had to carry Chara to the humans while they were dying. Both grow up to have a negative worldview and become spiritually monstrous. Giegue becomes the terrifying Giygas while Asriel becomes Flowey, and in the neutral route, becomes the terrifying Photoshop Flowey. Both are ultimately defeated by the positivity of the main characters. Giegue gets defeated by the children singing his mother's lullaby. Giygas gets defeated by the collective prayers of all the characters Ness meets. Asriel gets defeated by sparing him.

This is where things get sad. If Undertale is Mother 1 and 2, than Deltarune is the darker Mother 3. Mother 3 is about Lucas on a race to pull the needles that wake up the dark dragon before the masked man does. If someone with a good heart, like Lucas pulls the needles, the dragon will wake up and recreate the world with no hesitation. But if someone with an evil heart pulls the needles, then the world will be destroyed for good.

It is revealed that the Masked Man is actually Lucas' dead brother Claus, rebuilt as a cyborg by the pigmask army. Claus lacks a heart and all of his memories are gone for the majority of the game. Only until the end, does he get reminded of them, and ultimately Claus ends up ending his own life.

There's a lot of similarities to Mother 3 already in Deltarune, the fountains play a similar role to the needles. When created, they will create a dark world, and if enough are done, it could end the world. There's many theories of the world of Deltarune being in a timeloop or being reset in some way, which could be similar to Lucas' good heart rebuilding the world, thus starting the world "over again".

However, this is where the Masked Man parallel lies. Many people already noticed the similarities to Mother 3 and Deltarune and predict that our "masked man" would be the knight or even Dess. However, under this theory, I think that the game will pull a surprise inversion.

If Kris is really undead and is the Flowey inversion, then Kris will turn out to be the game's Masked Man. The true protagonist of the game isn't Kris, but the knight all along, or some other character like Susie, Noelle, etc.

This will provide a tragic ending, if Toby really does go "all in" with the Masked Man parallels with Kris like I am theorizing, than the end of the game will end with Kris' death. Perhaps, if I am right with Ralsei hosting the other half of their soul, having it fuse for one final time while Asriel watches his sibling die. It's a tragic ending to a tragic game.

I'm not an undertale or deltarune lore expert, so feel free to debunk or expand or what have you on these ideas. I personally find them scarily plausible, but understand why it doesn't seem that way for others. I just hope this provides a somewhat entertaining read, despite how sad it is of a theory.

#deltarune #deltarune theory #undertale #undertale theory #utdr theory #utdr #mother spoilers #Youtube #springy thoughts

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the-irreverend · 7 months

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I'm sorry, but the fact that Kris, Gaster, and Chara fit the Deltarune prophecy to a tee just can not be overlooked.

P.S. And when you consider that both Chara and Gaster are shown to have knowledge of other worlds and that ALL THREE OF THESE PEOPLE KNOW OF YOUR EXISTENCE, all of a sudden it doesn't seem so coincidental.

#deltarune theory #deltarune #utdr theory #utdr #deltarune chapter 2 #gaster #chara #kris dreemurr #chara dreemurr #deltarune spoilers #safe utdr #undertale #undertale theory #toby fox #wd gaster #kris

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catboysansundertale · 1 month

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utdr big bounce theory

was thinking about some of sans's fight dialogue and, hopefully I'm making sense here, but...

until suddenly everything ends...? what could he mean by that, hm?

if we expand on the idea that sans and papyrus in undertale are originally from deltarune, perhaps this could could also be related

if you know what the big bounce is, you might have guessed where I'm going with this. (if you don't know what the big bounce is, it's the kind of outdated hypothesis that the big bang was a result of a universe before ours collapsing and/or our universe collapsing at the end of its life before going through another big bang)

maybe deltarune (or one of its weird routes, which I believe is more likely) will end with the universe collapsing, then 'bouncing' back into the universe undertale is in? likely with some last wednesday-ism, with everyone being placed in their respective spaces in the new timeline

these lines also sparked my interest. seeing what comes next? consuming timelines over and over until... what? if it was just another reset, isn't that what he wants here? what is he trying to prevent? maybe another collapse in this universe is possible too, at least from his point of view, and that's what he's trying to stop

"Our reports" could be referring to either before or after the bounce event, I'm not sure which but I do think it's more interesting to be referring to before. this way the title anomoly addresses the player specifically and not frisk, the other humans, or flowey, which I think is very fitting to deltarune and undertale's themes

I think it'll be a weird route specifically because of the way he talks about/to the anomoly

he's telling you that you're the type of person who'll keep resetting over and over to see and consume every possibility. the kind of person who would do weird routes just to see what happens and get every little bit of detail you can. not that I think he personally knows about weird routes or what happens in other timelines, just why I personally think this would be the ending of a weird route

I also think it's interesting that goner girl and by extension possibly goner kid have a connection to sans, too, because of goner kid's dialogue

I'll admit that this could be a reference to gaster shattering or even fun values, but I do think it's interesting from a big bounce perspective. people being completely lost from a bounce event is SUPER interesting, and maybe that's the only reason I'd like to believe that part, but I do think it makes sense and another reason for sans to try and prevent it

feel free to let me know if I've missed anything that supports or goes against this theory! I love to learn more about undertale/deltarune (and honestly there's some stuff I've forgotten over the years since I first played either)

#undertale #deltarune #utdr #utdr theory #undertale theory #deltarune theory

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baconmoop · 10 months

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Ideas I’ve had about papyrus’ green grass comment.

I could a 5000 word essay on how excited the last question makes me, but I have to be at work in an hour, so here’s my unstructured ramblings.

1. They are from the ruins (I don’t like this one. I think Toriel would’ve recognised them both if this was the case, and I don’t think there’s grass, just flowers.)

2. They grew up in the throne room (Again, I think those are leaves, not grass. Would explain Sans’ and Asgore’s connection however.)

3. It’s a reference to the Kickstarter video, where they’re on a circle of grass on what Papyrus calls “a mysterious black void”. I like this one. It’s meta, the void has Gaster connections, i’m all over it.

4. It confirms that both Sans and Papyrus are not from Undertale. (Are they from Deltarune? Another universe? I have no Idea.) I love this theory too.

5. Some people are saying that waterfall is full of grass? I’d argue its seaweed, but that might just be pedantic. I feel like if it was waterfall, the first thing he’d mention would be the water, surely.

6. Toby is just fucking with us.

Please tell me what you think! I can’t wait for the hour long theory videos to drop.

#undertale #utdr newsletter #deltarune #i am going to be late for work #utdr theory

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rannnem · 4 months

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something I don't see talked about enough in the utdr fandom is the theory that gaster will never fully show up in deltarune. of course there's the fanon "trapped in the void" gaster, but in canon, gaster has been completely shattered across time and space. only bits and pieces of him remain: a vague entity that could be his body is hidden behind a mystery door, his leitmotif is scattered about in random songs, the gaster followers remember him, a gaster follower holds a physical piece of him, the man behind the tree is seemingly gaster, someone tries to call him but accidentally calls you, entry 17 is hidden in the code of the game, what could be his voice is heard in abc_123, and we connect to the disembodied voice of him at the start of deltarune. gaster has been completely ripped apart in such a way that the pieces could never meet, considering they're in two separate games and completely separate timelines. the truth is, we likely won't ever see him in a corporeal form because he's been so shattered and even bits of him might be duplicated (mystery man and the man behind the tree), which is pretty crazy considering how much of a fan favourite this guy is. personally I prefer it that way, because he's supposed to be a mysterious looming entity everywhere you look, not a real character. an overlooked detail is the egg's flavour text: "not too important, not too unimportant" being a reference to gaster, which basically confirms that gaster won't be some huge final boss, since he's 'not too important'. that being said, I love the different fanon interpretations of gaster, they're one of the most creative things to come out of the fandom.

#undertale #deltarune #gaster #wd gaster #gaster undertale #gaster deltarune #utdr theory

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neblosinha · 8 months

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I've been thinking about this for a while now.... Who would orange be?

#utdr #utdr theory #undertale #deltarune #theory #deltarune theory #souls colors

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almostshamelesspenguin · 10 months

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papyrus: *mentions green grass*

utdr fans:

#deltarune #undertale #papyrus #papyrus undertale #utdr newsletter #deltarune theory #undertale theory #utdr theory

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bogos-bint3d · 6 months

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One of my favourite things about the whole Undertale Deltarune anagrams thing is that one of their anagrams is "Unrelated", implying not being the same and having, well, no relation, but one of the other ones is "Unaltered", implying there's nothing changed and being in fact, the same.

#does this make sense #undertale #deltarune #utdr #ut/dr #unaltered #unrelated #ut #undertale deltarune #deltarune undertale #ut dr #utdr theory #undertale theory #deltarune theory #anagrams #undertale au #utdr au #ut au #ok enough tags

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humunanunga · 9 months

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The average Undertale enjoyer probably knows that a large percentage of players recognized Megalovania from Homestuck, but I don't think nearly as many know that Homestuck enjoyers recognized Flowey's laugh from one of the soundtracks in an album for two Homestuck characters who were characterized by a red/green dichotomy. You know, red and green, the colors Flowey's eyes were when he laughed like that again But Worse in his nightmare of a boss fight.

Anyway, I've had The Lordling stuck in my head.

#that's the track title. for he.#no they both have that green. the other is diff green where he's red #but bold red is more than one character's theme color #and so in (overt) visual allusions to him that red is often shown against their bodies' shade of green #caliborn #calliope #flowey #undertale #utdr theory #homestuck #mspa #musings

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mirror-ralsei · 7 months

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THEORY: The Butterfly Effect

I'd like to thank VGFM for forming the basis of this theory with theirs, the excellent "The True Identity and Importance of "Everyman"". I highly recommend reading it!

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A while ago, VGFM brought to my attention the presence of a butterfly motif in UTDR.

They noted the presence of butterflies in three specific places: Whimsun/Whimsalot's bullets, Reaper Bird/Everyman's bullets, and King's cape.

I'd like to expound on this by analyzing these usages, and also add another two instances of a butterfly motif that, all together, lead me to a conclusion about what butterflies in UTDR could mean.

1: Everyman's bullets

Probably the most memorable appearance of butterflies across Undertale and Deltarune. It's our pal Everyman!

In case it was possible to forget, here's a refresher: the amalgamate Reaper Bird in the True Lab features a guest star in their attacks. The strange, embryonic "Everyman" initially just stands there. Then their face is painfully eaten by butterflies, and they subsequently will go on the attack. Everyman has since cameoed in Deltarune a few times, but the butterflies have been conspicuously absent.

Still, this seems to be the character most obviously linked to butterflies so far.

As for what butterflies could mean here, there's only one really major thing to note: Everyman was not aggressive until the butterflies infested their face. In one of their attacks, the butterflies even seem to be "puppeting" a staggering Everyman, and are the ones actually inflicting damage by flying out of their head.

Does this mean the butterflies represent aggression? I'm not so sure. However, as we're about to see, they do seem to appear a lot in the context of antagonism.

2: King's Mantle

Another butterfly was visible in Deltarune Chapter 1, taking the shape of King's... cape?

At the time of VGFM's theory, we didn't have the Chapter 1 livestream, but Toby gave us this one for free: "Cool mantle, bro."

Setting aside the weighted term "mantle" for this theory (but rest assured, you're in good company thinking about the SkyMantle and ShadowMantle), I'd like to focus on the King himself.

Firstly: Many people refer to this character as the "Chaos King," likely due to the titular track that plays during his fight. But the character himself is only ever referred to as "(a) King." Let's squirrel this away for later.

Secondly: During said battle with King, during which he has his greyscale mantle, he is able to use a greyscale "tail" from his belly to attack us by slightly manipulating the UI.

King uses that grey belly tail to drag our box around the screen and into bullets in various ways, almost reminiscent of fighting Sans. As far as I can remember, (correct me if I'm wrong), he's one of the only DR characters who do this (ETA: @potabo pointed out Queen also has a UI-affecting attack, as does Spamton in a scrapped attack).

But after the King's mantle has flown away, we only see him using basic spade bullets. We never see the belly tail again.

Now, of course, this could just be gameplay/story dichotomy - we're in a cutscene, not in battle, so of course we don't see any grander attacks.

But it would be interesting if the mantle itself was what granted him the meta power to manipulate the UI. If true, then by extension, this might associate the butterfly motif with similar powers.

Remember what I said about "Chaos King" not being his real name? That begs the question: why is the track titled that?

3: CHAOS SABER

This one's a little sneaky.

We've all probably noticed by now that Asriel's battle is chock full of Deltarune references, and plot elements we weren't even aware of. There's plenty of theories and speculation out there about that.

But one of the elements flying under the radar is his attack "CHAOS SABER."

Not the Kris-like sword attack, or the unusual animations, or the Deltarune-like sparkles at the end... but the very sword sprites themselves.

Take a look again.

Yep - when put together, the two swords Asriel uses form a butterfly shape. (They're also reflections of each other...)

What do we know about this instance of the butterfly motif? Not much, really, aside from the use of swords to cut, the production of those Darkner-representing stars, and the title: "CHAOS SABER."

Uh-oh. Maybe we shouldn't speak too loudly of "chaos..."

4: Jevil's voiceline

Just a small one, but I think worth noting: Jevil, a character strongly associated with Chaos, has the voiceline "METAMORPHOSIS."

Yes, it's one of his references to those Line stickers. But face it: when you hear "metamorphosis," what's the first thing that comes to mind?

It may not directly spell out the word "butterfly." But fellow Line reference "I CAN DO ANYTHING" doesn't directly spell out "freedom," anyway, and that's an actual confirmed Jevil motif.

All I'm saying is, it's not out of the question that the "METAMORPHOSIS" line might tie into this ongoing butterfly motif.

5: Whimsun/Whimsalot's Bullets

You may have gone through this list wondering: where are Whimsun and Whimsalot? What profound meaning do they have? What fascinating secrets can we glean from their depiction of butterflies?

The answer is: I dunno lol.

Sorry, there was a reason I shunted them off to the end. Unfortunately, I just can't find anything that sorely sticks out! Whimsalot is one of the CORE enemies, sure, and those seem Deltarune-relevant in some way, but otherwise... I just don't know! If anyone has more profound insight to offer here, feel free to sound off - I'd love to hear your ideas. Personally, I'm gonna throw in the towel until we get another chapter.

CONCLUSION

You've probably noticed by now, but there seems to be a common thread throughout half of these instances.

Jevil, "Chaos King," "CHAOS SABER"...

In Undertale and Deltarune, butterflies may represent CHAOS.

And honestly, it makes more sense than you'd think.

The butterfly effect is pretty well-referenced in media: a single flap of a butterfly's wings, rippling out to eventually cause a hurricane somewhere else.

And what discipline, exactly, does the butterfly effect fall under? Chaos theory.

If this is the imagery Toby Fox is trying to invoke, I wonder if our actions won't "ripple out" in a great chain of cause-and-effect, either. After all, he did state some things "only appear random. All chaos is ordered."

As for what this means for the affected characters, the one that jumps out the most as an example is Everyman. Again, in Reaper Bird's attack, the poor fellow appears to be engulfed by butterflies - so, metaphorically, by CHAOS. Only after this do they actually become aggressive. And interestingly, Toby Fox also remarks on how the Dark Fountain may have changed King's behavior.

After all, in terms of the greater plot, the most solid thing we know about the role of CHAOS is that it will apparently result when the Dark Fountains fill the sky, and cause the Roaring.

So, is "Chaos King" actually King altered by the CHAOS-causing presence of the fountain? How many more benign characters like Everyman have been spurred into aggression in this way? And how long before all this mounting CHAOS becomes a true Roaring?

It seems we'll have to keep an eye on the butterflies.

...Well, that's all I've got for today. Feel free to leave your essays about Whimsun being the most important Undertale character - once things ripple out enough, you might just be right.

(Screenshot credit: 1, 2, 3)

#deltarune theory #undertale theory #utdr theory #here's how morpho knight can still win!!!!!!!!111

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