#This isn’t necessarily canon but it’s pretty accepted in the fandom that it’s a coping mechanism or him trying to help katara | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

takaraphoenix · 3 years

Note

Ship game!! What about Nico and Will?? It’s pretty popular, but I don’t think I’ve seen you write much of it…

That's an interesting one in that I have vocalized my reasons for disliking it way back when it first became popular but instead of just linking that, it has been years so I think it's time for an updated version.

Firstly: This post is gonna be properly tagged and not crosstagged so if any shipper comes across it and feels the need to bitch about it, just don't; your lack of curating your own tumblr experience is not my problem! ;D

Now, there are three key factors that play into my dislike of this ship: How it was written, what it represents, how the fandom around it acts.

1. It’s rushed and uncomfortable

In BoO, it was incredibly rushed. They had literally five sentences of interactions before they walked into the literal sunset together. Five. It was just entirely born from Riordan's Noah's Ark Complex, where he just can't let people be single. The series was ending and he needed Nico to have an endgame so he rushed into some random romance with zero build-up.

The way their interactions went down was also severely uncomfortable for me. Will was acting so offended by Nico not wanting to go to camp and be friends in an entitled way that he had no right to be, he downright guilt-tripped Nico about how he had wanted to be friends. Nico has been just so severely traumatized at such a young age and his coping mechanism, as unhealthy as it was, was to run away and hide. Will acted like Nico not wanting to form attachments to people who could potentially leave him again was somehow just an Edgy Emo Decision and not a direct reaction to his trauma. His entire approach to Nico was basically all these hippie posts of "Don't have depression!! Just go out into the sun and stop being depressed!", which is already a bad take with non-medical people but he's supposed to be a doctor (and let's not get into the shadiness of him technically being Nico's doctor).

There is also an inherent "I can fix him" angle to this ship and to me, only few ship dynamics are more uncomfortable than that. If you want to fundamentally change a person's behavior and personality, you... don't actually want to be with this person.

Now, here's where my points overlap, because the following parts of their writing that bothers me also stand for what this ship fundamentally represents.

2. Solangelo is a queer ship written by and for straights

I'm a queer woman and as a queer woman, I want queer wish-fulfillment, not what straights want out of queerness. I'm kind of tired of that, I've been sitting through it for enough decades now. That's, of course, not to say that no straight writer can give proper queer representation, but far too often do straight writers - even the most well-meaning ones - project straight desires of queerness into their queer representation.

Let me explain that closer through this ship.

Nico's been in love with Percy for years and I'm going to do my best to not hijack this post with some Percico agenda; that's not what this his about, this isn't some "my ship is better than your ship" ship-war nonsense. It's simply a canonical fact that Nico has had romantic feelings for another character for years.

A character who, in this medium, is heterosexual. And if you're queer, you've been there. In love with your straight best friend. It's a cliche, but it's a cliche for a reason.

We have also all been well-meaningly rejected by said straight friend.

And here's the straight desires for you: The queer person who was in love with a straight person just immediately stops having those feelings and will then as quickly as possible fall in love with the next queer person they meet to be happy and no longer uncomfortably in love with a straight person, because that thought makes the straights uncomfortable.

Queer wish-fulfillment would be for Percy to return those feelings, for the queer character to get his first love, to not be rejected. That thing queer teens always dreamed about for themselves.

Aside from the wish-fulfillment angle, the pacing is another problem. Let me repeat, Nico was in love for years. But a five sentence conversation with Will once causes a crush on Will and we see him physically turn away from Percy and toward Will just immediately to rebound and actually fall out of love with Percy and in love with Will. Anyone who's ever been unlucky in love will attest to just how unrealistic and ridiculous the pacing here is.

It's also straight queerness in another respect; Nico has been the first ever queer character we meet in that world. He loves a straight guy - and to get over that, we introduce the second queer character. Because heaven forbid there are multiple queers to pick from. No, in straight-written queer romances, there is always that one main queer and then they introduce a second one and the two just immediately hit it off and develop a romance like all a queer person needs to form attraction to someone is the confirmation that the other person shares your sexuality.

Also the notable gay guy on gay guy ship here, whereas the more queer-wish-fulfillment option would have also included more nuance to the queer experience, because Percy doesn't have to be heterosexual just because he has only been with girls so far. It's a very old-fashioned - think 90s and early 2000s - kind of straight-written queerness that there are only exactly two homosexuals and that those two homosexuals then pair up.

And, listen, I'm not immune to these outdated straight-written queers entirely, I have many such ships that I grew up with that I am still fond of because they were groundbreaking at that time and they weren't outdated yet back when they happened in said 90s and early 2000s. I am however a grown woman now and just like I have grown, so has queer rep so I am not as easily baited into falling onto my knees in gratitude for canon rep. You have to go with the times. And this ship, by all that is given to us, is just entirely outdated straight-written rep.

Which, I mention earlier that even straight-written rep can be good. If the author tries. Riordan doesn't really try though; he does the bare minimum when he writes any of his rep - and there have been many, many more qualified voices being very vocal about his depiction of people of color and, as a woman, I've been vocal about his depiction of women. I don't want to derail this post with all of that, but I do think that it bears mentioning that Riordan doing rep but only doing a bare minimum and not putting in the necessary work to deepen the representation he wants to give is a repeating pattern that has been pointed out many times by now.

(I’d also like to point out that no, it is not just the ship and not just the listed instances that make it straight-written rep for straights. It’s Nico’s entire queer arc, starting with his forced coming out. A severely traumatizing event that is completely brushed over because the straight author doesn’t understand the impact this has on queer people. Not to mention the framework; Nico’s coming out isn’t Nico’s story, it happens in Jason’s POV, it is given to us through the POV of the straight bystander who gets to be Best Ally by assuring Nico that being gay is okay. This kind of coming out is not a queer wish-fulfillment, it’s a straight wish-fulfillment of getting to be the straight savior, the ally to show the gay the light of acceptance. And, additional to the ridiculous pacing of how fast Nico gets over his love for Percy, Nico also gets over years of internalized homophobia just because of, I don’t know, Jason’s few encouraging words and the fact that Will paid attention to him? For a gay kid who was in the closet all his life, the nonchalant way in which he publicly confessed his crush to Percy at the end made absolutely no sense and was written as basically a joke, finished off with Nico literally high-fiving Percy’s girlfriend despite those two never having seen eye to eye before but this is straight wish-fulfillment so all straights are Super Allies, because that’s the way straights want to see themselves, even though Annabeth has shown before just how jealous she can be and she most definitely wouldn’t go around high-fiving people who confess to her boyfriend. Nothing about Nico’s queer arc in HoO felt natural or queer or satisfying.)

Sure, Solangelo on a surface level is big because it's a canon queer couple in a YA book-series and kudos for that and yay for the kids who get to grow up seeing queers in YA books, but I actually do think that kids growing up with books written in the 2010s shouldn't grow up with 1990s levels of representation, because the 2010s overall are actually at a far more nuanced and better level of representation when it comes to queerness. And I do reserve the right to quit on too straight-written and too outdated queer rep in a landscape where I can get more satisfying representation elsewhere; we don’t live in times anymore where you necessarily have to love every bit of rep because it’s the only one you get.

Now that we've gone through my first two gripes, let's wrap this up with the final point, because it also directly ties into this.

3. The new wave of antis hiding behind this ship

A huge part of the fandom is so busy kissing Riordan's ass solely for giving them queer rep at all they think that both the author and the ship are beyond flawless and that kind of attitude is not good. Just because an author includes rep doesn't make either perfect. Absolutely no one is beyond critique - especially not when said critique comes from the very people the author is representing. And even beyond any "valid" critique on the ship, quite frankly, someone should also be allowed to just not like it, without any reasons given at all.

But there is a certain... protective obsessiveness about this ship that doesn't allow a not liking. Very similar to how PJO bore this mindset around Perc/abeth already. It's okay to have OTPs, even OTPs that you have a blindspot for and just don't want to see any flaws in. It is however not okay to then go around attacking people who don't like the thing and mind their own business.

Solangelo's bred a new generation of antis in this fandom. And, particularly with the fact that this post too receives an "anti" tag, I feel like there needs to be a clarification (because tumblr likes to forget what actually makes an anti). Not liking something doesn't make you an anti, venting in properly tagged posts doesn't either; it's the people who harass others, who seek out the content they dislike to then complain that it even exists and who actively try to make others stop creating for it - those are antis.

And with Solangelo's popularity, there was a high rise in Percico antis, who sought it out, were unnecessarily nasty about it, harrassed creators and tried to enforce some kind of "Solangelo supremacy" that won't allow other ships for the characters.

I've been in fandom long enough to be perfectly aware that not all Solangelo shippers count into this category and that there are completely normal and nice Solangelo shippers, but this is a Venn diagram where the overlap between Solangelo shippers and antis is too large to not widely associate the nasty people with the ship itself. (I've been there myself, shipping the very ship behind which a fandom's antis all hid. The second-hand embarrassment of having these people give the ship a bad name is horrendous and I do feel bad for all the normal Solangelo shippers.)

The more often I encountered these people, who made Percico bad (sometimes in wildly ridiculous manners that bent and deliberately misinterpreted canon) and who in the same breath praised Solangelo high, the more tired I grew of that ship. It's a simple game of association, really. You see that linked to the gross and nasty behavior and you start associating the ship itself with that gross and nasty behavior - and with all the things I said before that already weighed into my dislike of the ship, this just was the final tipping point, really.

And that's it. That sums up why I dislike Solangelo. It was hastily rushed, uncomfortable in its execution, it is outdated rep that very much feels as straight-written as it factually is and it does not feel aimed at me as a queer person but rather at the straight audience and it has gathered a cult following of quite uncomfortable people who on their own would be reason enough to avoid it so you can avoid them.

Send me a ship and I will explain why I do or don't ship it

#Anti Solangelo #PJOverse #Riordan Critical #Shipping #Ship Ask Game #send me asks #it IS both a positive AND negative game #and I gotta admit #it is nice to put these things #into proper words #every once in a while

261 notes · View notes

prince-of-elsinore · 3 years

Text

Sam and Dean: psychological analysis and headcanons

In response to this anon ask from the 66 SPN Questions:

6. Do you have any psychological headcanons (or canon interpretations) of the characters?

Anon, this is probably not what you asked for. But I started writing, and kept finding more I wanted to say, until I thought--why not just say it all? And by all, I don't actually mean all--this is by no means exhaustive. But it was a wonderful, self-indulgent opportunity to organize my thoughts on Sam and Dean's psychologies, and even find some new ideas as I was writing, and to put them out there so others can read and discuss. (Always happy to discuss any of this! Inbox is open.)

As a disclaimer, I know most of these thoughts are probably not original and may be retreads of many things fandom has been discussing for years. I'm not claiming to be breaking new ground here. Also, I sorta float backwards and forwards chronologically in my discussion--some parts pertain more to them when they're young, some to when they're older, and I don't always clarify which. Also, these are generalizations! I point out patterns I notice; that doesn't make them all hard and fast rules, because Sam and Dean are each human and complex!

Here's what you'll find below:

1. Core motivations 2. Happiness 3. Approval and secrets 4. Approval from authority figures 5. Need and attachment re: others 6. Sympathy and empathy 7. Walls—hiding vs. performing 8. Need and attachment re: each other 9. Ambitions and goals 10. Normality and monstrosity 11. Guilt and self-loathing 12. Autonomy and sacrifice 13. Personal identity 14. Concluding observation

1. Core motivations: Dean’s purpose is to protect Sam, obviously. Sam’s purpose, though a little less clear, is to save Dean. Sometimes it’s explicit, as in s3 and s9-10. But I think Sam also wants to save Dean, in general, from himself and from the life. It’s why he pushes against Dean’s obedience to their father. It’s why he tells him to get out and go to Lisa after he jumps in the Cage. At a certain point, I think Sam accepts he can’t “save” Dean without changing who he is, so he chooses to stick by him—because at least then he can make Dean happy.

2. Happiness: Dean’s happiness—or perhaps contentment is a better word—is knowing that Sam is safe and alive. Sam’s happiness is Dean being happy. In Sam’s world, things are good when Dean’s good. I think that, conversely, Dean wants Sam to be happy, and Sam wants Dean to be safe, but they both know and to an extent accept that those things are not within their control, so they focus on what they feel they can control.

3. Approval and secrets: They are each other’s north stars, guiding principles, in different ways. For Dean it’s “look out for Sammy,” for Sam it’s “what would my big brother think/do.” Dean doesn’t need Sam’s approval. Sure, he loves it when Sam admires him, but if he feels he needs to do something against Sam’s approval, he doubles down because approval from Sam is not the top priority. He’ll do what he thinks is right, especially to keep Sam safe, no matter what Sam thinks about it. Sam, on the other hand, does crave Dean’s approval and cares very much about his opinion. It doesn’t mean he won’t go against Dean (all the conflict of s1-5!), but it affects him differently. This leads to different kinds of secret-keeping: Sam goes behind Dean’s back to avoid his disapproval; Dean goes behind Sam’s back so that Sam doesn’t interfere with what he thinks needs to be done.

4. Approval from authority figures: Dean does crave approval from others—specifically, respected authority figures. The big one is obviously John. I think in a way it’s Mary, too, when she comes back. But it only applies as long as the person has his respect. Sam doesn’t crave approval from other authorities in the same way, perhaps because his primary authority figure growing up was Dean.

5. Need and attachment re: others: Sam is the only person Dean cannot live without, but he also makes outside connections of a friendly nature fairly easily. He’s the more socially outgoing brother who latches onto people like Gordon, gets friendly with Ash, and forges connections with Jo and Charlie, just to name a few (and Castiel at times—though their relationship is so inconsistent and often convenience-based I hesitate to include it in this category). Though Sam is Dean’s core need, I do think Dean thrives with other friendships. I’m not talking about found family, though I’m well aware of Dean’s tendency to call people “family” quite readily. Honestly, I think this is a manifestation of his craving for connection with others. Dean has an affectionate and playful nature, and let’s face it, Sam isn’t always super receptive to that—so naturally, Dean seeks out people who are. (I think this is also, in some cases, related to Dean’s craving for approval from others). Of course, none of those other relationships come close to the depth of his relationship with Sam, and when his relationship with Sam is at its best, I don’t think Dean really needs anything else to sustain him. But in reality, it can’t always be at its best.

Sam, on the other hand, doesn’t forge outside connections easily—but when he does, they tend to be deeper than Dean’s easy casual associations (even when Dean has real affection for someone, he tends to keep the tone of the relationship light). It’s pretty clear Sam was a loner kid, and I imagine it took him a while to find friends at Stanford, and even though he loved Jessica he still clearly kept many secrets. That’s the thing with Sam—he’s got walls. Dean’s got his own walls, but they’re different. Sam can seem emotionally open, but he protects his innermost self very carefully and rarely puts his emotions out there in a truly open way—even less than Dean does. I think this is a consistent personality trait for Sam, not one born of trauma (though perhaps exacerbated by it at times). In fact, it’s in later seasons that I see Sam finally, in rare moments, let down those walls, with Rowena and Jack. When he’s young, I think this was partially a coping mechanism he developed for hiding his desires/feelings, even from himself, because he was so unhappy with his life. It means that even though he’s an introspective guy, he’s not as self-aware as he thinks he is until he’s older and more mature. He’s very good at self-deception when he’s young, because as a thinker, he can convince himself of just about anything.

To circle back to attachment, what this means to me is that Sam, while he certainly appreciates close friendships and has a lot to offer those he cares about, doesn’t crave friends in the way that Dean does. I think he desires to be understood (this is a natural human need) but he’s much more comfortable with himself than Dean is, and is somewhat of a loner by nature. This means he’s also not (usually) going to be too affected by the status of his relationships with others. Dean is much more volatile and easily hurt by others (this is where Castiel is a great example).

6. Sympathy and empathy: On the surface, Sam appears to be the caring, sensitive brother, while Dean is brash and insensitive. This is a very incomplete picture, however. It mostly comes down to the difference between sympathy and empathy. Empathy is an involuntary response, whereas sympathy is something that a person chooses to express, though that doesn’t make it necessarily superficial—it also comes from an emotional place. Dean tends to be more empathetic, and Sam more sympathetic. Dean, despite his performative walls, is more easily affected on a visceral level by others’ emotions. He is more sensitive, more easily hurt or swayed to anger, and also more easily experiences empathy. This has nothing to do with what Dean thinks is right—it’s another involuntary emotion. He is sometimes moved to express this feeling, but he’s not generally concerned about appearing sympathetic. Sam, with his careful emotional walls, isn’t generally so viscerally affected by others, but he is kind. This is expressed as sympathy, because he cares about others’ feelings, and he wants to be good/morally right. On the one hand, it comes from an intellectual place—“it’s socially acceptable/morally right to express care for this person” (which Dean is less likely to care about)—and on the other, it is an emotional response—“I know what that feels like”—but a more regulated one than empathy, where one almost directly experiences another’s emotions.

7. Walls—hiding vs. performing: It’s interesting that both brothers have their own walls, which they construct as a form of self-preservation, but they have different levels of effectiveness in protecting themselves from outside influence. One difference might lie in what the walls were built in reaction to. Sam built his walls at a young age to separate himself from the outside world because, ironically, it was precisely what he desired, but was not allowed to have. He therefore consciously distanced himself from it, to dull the pain of not having it. The goal of those walls was to have something to hide behind, where he could remain generally unnoticed, so he could conceal his pain from outsiders and even from his family.

Dean took a little longer to build his walls—or at least to consciously do so. He already no doubt fashioned himself after his dad as a kid, and often put on a brave face—for Sam, for his father—when he was not feeling brave. He therefore became accustomed to performing at a young age, and performed many roles for both Sam’s and John’s benefit. He was unconsciously building walls with these performances, concealing his true feelings and desires. Later, I think this started to become more intentional, especially in relations with women/sex partners and especially after the Stanford split, as Dean realized how vulnerable to hurt his sensitive nature made him. It was much safer to perform all the time, and never let his real feelings show. For Dean, even more than Sam, I think he often lost sight of what those real feelings were behind the walls as he tried his best to be the performance he was putting on.

For a visual metaphor, I think of it this way: Sam is a boy at the center of a self-constructed labyrinth. He is almost always able to maintain control over how close people get (except when a few slip past his defenses, at which point he may be susceptible to manipulation). Despite all those elaborate passageways, though, there’s still Sam at the center. It’s lonely there, but he knows himself pretty well at least. Dean is a man in a mask who wants the mask to be his real face. He does everything he can to fuse himself and the mask together. They probably are fused at this point, so it would hurt to take the mask off. His memory of the face under the mask is hazy. He’s afraid, if he looks under the mask, he’ll hate what he sees. He’s lonely because no matter how close others get—and he lets them in close, can surround himself with people—none of them will ever see his true face. But he’s convinced himself it’s better this way, because if anyone saw his face, they’d hate it.

8. Need and attachment re: each other: Clearly, both brothers need each other. Sam’s need for Dean is different than Dean’s need for Sam, though. The way I see it, Dean’s need is one that requires reassurance. Perhaps it traces back to the concern about Sam instilled into him at a young age. I think it was strongly exacerbated by the Stanford split, when Dean realized his and Sam’s desires didn’t align. In Dean’s mind, Sam left once and can do it again—he’s always waiting for the other shoe to drop. Sam, on the other hand, has always been able to rely on Dean as a rock, a constant in his life—to the point that, in a way, he takes it for granted when he’s younger. Not in a spoilt, ungrateful way, but in that way that we, as children, might take our parents for granted—they’re always going to be there, right? That’s why, on the few occasions where suddenly, Sam isn’t sure of Dean’s devotion, the rug is ripped out from under him and he’s completely adrift and distraught—seasons 4 and 8 come to mind. Sam needs to be the center of Dean’s universe. When he fears that that’s shifted, that Dean hates him or has chosen someone else over him, it turns Sam’s whole world upside down. For Dean, the fear is that Sam will leave, but it’s a constant, background worry. For Sam, the fear is that Dean will hate him, but since he can usually count on Dean to be obsessed with him, it only comes up now and again. Only Dean can truly hurt Sam, while Dean is vulnerable to hurt from others—though, as always, the deepest hurt can only come from Sam.

9. Ambitions and goals: Sam is the one with greater needs and ambitions outside the scope of their relationship. For Dean, if he’s got Sam and he’s got hunting, he’s content. His greatest accomplishments are taking care of Sam and saving people, and that’s all he needs. I see Sam as craving other sources of fulfillment, though—academic/lore study for its own sake (the pursuit of knowledge), and a leadership/mentorship role. I thought it was very fitting that Sam finds these in late seasons, with leading hunters against the BMOL, then leading the apocalypse AU hunters, then mentoring/nurturing Jack. Dean has always had (and needed) a mentor/leadership/nurturing role with Sam, but Sam also thrives when he’s able to step into that role for others.

10. Normality and monstrosity: I’m just going to link to this post rather than repeat myself.

11. Guilt and self-loathing: This is something they both struggle with and at times, are defined by, but it manifests differently. I think their Hell traumas exemplify their different brands of guilt: for Dean, it’s perpetrator’s guilt. He knows he did something terrible and feels he can never atone for his past actions. For Sam, it’s victim’s/survivor’s guilt. He may not have done anything wrong, but there’s a certain amount of self-blame, especially for perceived weakness. This is another theme for Sam; one of the main faults he sees in himself is weakness—too weak to save Dean from Hell for instance—and as a result tries to shoulder things alone (killing Lilith, Hallucifer, etc). Sam has a need to fix things, to prove to others and himself that he is capable. Dean, I think, sees his main fault as neediness, but really, it’s a deeply buried sense of innate worthlessness. He was taught from a young age that his brother’s life—not his own—was of the utmost value. He internalized that his life was only worthwhile if he could save others, and has trouble with the idea that he, himself, has value beyond what he can do for others.

12. Autonomy and sacrifice: The above leads Dean to have a very constrained sense of his own autonomy. In general, he values duty/loyalty to others over autonomy (although when it comes to cosmic beings, he’s all about free will—see this post if you want more thoughts on that, and Sam’s autonomy). Often, his desire to control others comes from a place of frustration when Dean feels they are neglecting duty/being selfish. I think partially duty towards others is really a deeply ingrained value for him, but there may also be some buried jealousy at play, in that Dean wishes he could act with more freedom, put himself first every once in a while, but doesn’t know how to. Sam tends to value autonomy over duty (this doesn’t mean he doesn’t believe in any sort of responsibility—he’s willing to sacrifice for the greater good, after all). This means he also tends to respect others’ autonomy, though we all know he can get plenty unhinged where his brother’s safety is concerned. The theme of Sam and autonomy has been talked to death so I’ll stop there, but you can click the link above if you want more.

13. Personal identity: One of Dean’s biggest struggles is with how much of his personal identity is received rather than self-determined. He is tasked with taking care of Sam and he is trained to be a hunter; these become the foundations of his identity. He says it himself: taking care of Sam is not just what he does but who he is. Then in season 3, his own subconscious mocks him for his lack of originality, styling himself and all he loves after his father, showing that this is a source of deep insecurity. This discomfort with himself contributes to his fear of being abandoned and left alone with himself. He doesn’t know who he is without Sam—or rather, is convinced he is nothing without Sam, which is why he fights so hard to keep him by his side. It also contributes to his general desire for friends, or better, family: people who won’t abandon him.

Later in the series, I think Dean has come to embrace his genuine self more. He’s nerdy and excitable and playful—and I don’t see this is as regression, but rather a healthy embracing of what makes him happy—not tastes inherited from his father. If it seems juvenile, it’s because it’s the first time in his life he’s allowed himself to express and explore these things. I think his relationship with hunting is also healthier; it’s no longer something he does because it’s the only thing that can give him worth. He does it because he believes it’s right and genuinely wants to help people. He has a more complete sense of self, and while it’s still totally tied up in Sam, he has gained some self-worth.

[I should note that basically everything I’ve written about Dean supports the headcanon that Dean has BPD—a headcanon I accepted after I realized this. For some more great writing on Dean and BPD, see this post by @venhedish.]

Sam has always known what he wanted for himself and rejected what was given to/allowed him. Wanting what he couldn’t have, from a young age, helped him develop an individual sense of self, not defined by others. I think it’s this difference in their sense of individual identity that leads some viewers to think that Dean loves Sam more than Sam loves Dean. He doesn’t, and losing Dean is just as huge a loss and a grief for Sam as losing Sam was for Dean. Dean is central to Sam’s life, and he can’t feel complete without him; however, his identity and every desire has never revolved as entirely around Dean as Dean’s has around him, so Sam has a foundational sense of self that even losing Dean can’t completely destroy. It’s what allows him to rebuild in grief and carry on (whereas I have no doubt Jensen’s right and Dean would waste away in the back of a pool hall without Sam). Dean’s central role in Sam’s life never disappears, though, and it is, in fact, what allows Sam to carry on; an effort to honor his brother’s memory, living in a way that would make him proud. There’s continuity in that for Sam; the craving for his brother’s approval and happiness never disappears. Seeking those things is what makes Sam happy, both in their domestic years together before Dean’s death and in the years after. They are both, after all, co-dependent!

14: Concluding observation: Sam and Dean have many similar issues, desires, and insecurities: the desire for a normal life, the fear of their own monstrosity, the desire for love and friendship, their need and love for each other, their desire for approval/to be admired, resentment at their childhood, the feeling of being impure and unworthy, the desire for freedom, issues with bodily autonomy. Sometimes these are seen as the purview of one brother or the other exclusively, but that’s almost never true when you consider canon as a whole. The difference is in how these things are internalized, sublimated, reflected, and expressed for each of them. It makes sense they would struggle with so many of the same things, because their lives are deeply intertwined and they are in the same boat most of the time.

#spn meta #sam meta #dean meta #sam and dean #winchester brothers #my meta #the brodependency #long post #spn

102 notes · View notes

cntrspll · 3 years

Text

this is a love letter to my own fic

hi hello hey, this is an essay about my own fic and the feelings i have about it. fic can be found here.

i am going to try so hard to keep this organized but i don’t know how well that will work soooo let’s go!

on the fic overall:

i just... like magnus. i think he is a fan fave for a reason, but i think there’s a lot of missing discussion of his post-canon situation and the development thereafter. when i finished listening to balance for the first time (in february-ish this year, i think?), i remember being super frustrated with where parts of the fandom had landed their focus. this isn’t an uncommon fandom thing, and i totally get where it comes from. some characters are just super relatable and a lot of fun to write about and have like absolute piles of stuff to unpack, so it’s totally fair that some characters get more focus than others, but where i felt that some of my faves got a lot of fandom focus, others... didn’t.

so this fic was in part an attempt to rectify that, because i wasn’t finding the unpacking of magnus and his emotional / mental state that i wanted. that being said, there are a couple fics that i did draw a little bit of inspiration from, the biggest probably being patterns of migration by goodnicepeople. the depiction of magnus as this big strong dude who also has these quiet vulnerabilities that he doesn’t like admitting to people is like, in part just really accurate to canon, but also something that i really wanted to see explored more, and i didn’t find a whole lot of other fics that fit that, so in part i just wanted to set out to put a little more into that.

also, like, i work in food service, and we are in a pandemic, and i moved in the middle of this year and i started hrt this year and have been dealing with the fallout of coming out and just kind of everything, and this fic was a really good way of just like, distracting myself from everything and sitting down for a little every day and thinking about something else and not so much about everything that was happening around me. so there is a good part of this fic that is just like, me coping with everything and trying to reorient myself a little. and it worked pretty well for that!

on process:

ok first things first, this was never meant to be 133k long. when i first sat down to write this, it was going to be a handful of snapshots set across [undetermined amount of time here] of magnus dealing with isolation and insomnia, and it was only meant to be like, maybe a 20k oneshot? that obviously did not happen. i think my original estimate once i accepted that this was gonna be multichaptered was like 60-70k, but then the chapters started getting longer with each one i finished, and then i wanted to add in an interlude, and then i decided i needed an epilogue, and here we are.

i’ll talk about this in other sections too, but as i wrote, i just kept finding more and more things that i wanted to talk about. i was also in the process of relistening to balance i was writing, and i kept running into little things that happened over the course of the show that i was like... oh shit! and that would inspire another scene or an interaction i wanted to write or something i wanted to focus more on, and the whole thing just kept getting more and more and bigger and bigger.

i’ve said it like 50 thousand times now, but i have never written anything this long before. i tried really hard to be regimented about the way i did it, because from the beginning i knew this was going to be an emotional journey for me to write, but i knew that if i let it slide for a week or so then i would never finish it. so to get through it, i wrote almost every day for a minimum of an hour. the process that i’ve found works best for me when i’m writing is using word sprints, putting on some music, and then forcing myself to tune out of social media and everything else for 25 minutes. i try to do between 750-1k words in that time period, then the site gives you a five minute break, during which i usually check twitter or fact check if i need to, and then i go back in and do another sprint. this works really well for me because i wasn’t trying to hit a specific word goal in any given day, just like... trying to sit down and write. i also tried not to guilt myself too much if i missed a day, or if i only did one sprint instead of two, or anything like that, and that’s kind of what helped me get through the whole monster without instantly dropping it as soon as i had another idea.

on mental health and recovery:

so one of my big personal pet peeves in fiction is the idea that trauma recovery is like, a one time single event deal. like, someone has this big horrible thing happen to them or they have some pressing mental health issue and then someone else walks in and they have one conversation and bam, everything is fine. i was exposed to a lot of [fan]fiction when i was younger that kind of supported this kind of narrative, and i get that there is a certain sort of wish fulfillment thing to that, but it also sucks, being an adult and having Problems(TM) and knowing that it absolutely does not work like that.

so when i set out to write a fic about trauma and mental illness and recovery, i felt kind of a responsibility to not fall into that trap and write it like, okay and then magnus and taako talk about it and taako’s like hey dude you’re depressed but it’s okay and then magnus doesn’t have nightmares anymore. also, because this is taz and the canon of like, historical accuracy is complete bullshit, i can put therapists and psychiatry and psychiatric medications in my fic and no one can tell me i’m wrong and it doesn’t exist. elevators exist, so i can make ssris and anti anxiety pills exist.

but also, magnus as a character is not going to jump into that right away. it is canon fact that he doesn’t like accepting or asking for help with stuff like this, and yes there are a couple big moments where he does, but like i bring up a couple times in the fic, mental health struggles are a big jump from like, a physical fight using swords and axes and shit. and this i think is really accurate to a lot of people’s struggles with mental illness, just taking that first step and admitting that you don’t feel okay, and that you need someone’s help to deal with it. that’s super super scary even to admit to like, your closest friends.

so that’s why magnus kind of shies away a number of times from some of the conversations that people try to start with him about mental health. taako and carey and lucretia and pretty much everyone else approach him at some point about opening up about this stuff, but he pulls away because admitting that kind of vulnerability to someone else is super scary, even if you’ve maybe admitted it to yourself already.

i also wanted to make sure that at the end of the fic, he wasn’t magically better. this is something else that i think people kind of forget, like... trauma and the problems that it causes don’t go away just because of therapy and medication. those things help, they help you reform the ways you think about yourself and about the world, but they don’t change the struggles you’ve been through or the sometimes biological problems that are causing whatever issue you’re having. and i remember reading a lot of fic when i was a kid where someone would be depressed, and then they’d fall in love and get magic dick or something and then they’d never be sad again, which... isn’t great.

but at the same time, i didn’t want it to end on this note like, oh everything is still bad even though he worked so hard to open up and get help, because that sucks, too. so it was really important to me that the fic end on a hopeful note, like, magnus isn’t cured. he still has bad days and bad weeks and sometimes he is just as low as he was before, but he also has like, normal days, which is something that i think you kind of forget can even exist when you’re depressed, or when you’re dealing with any mental illness. but like, i really wanted it to be obvious that things did get better and even if he’s still coping with it and it’s not going away, he’s okay. he’s gonna be all right.

on an unreliable narrator:

this kind of plays into some of the mental health stuff, but one thing that i love about taz that i really wanted to play into with this fic is the idea of limited perspective. griffin does some really cool fucking things with this, specifically in relation to the ipre and the big reveal in the last lunar interlude, with the idea of like... a character can only know the things that they know. like, magnus knows that there is a picture of him depicted as a red robe, and barry knows that they’re all red robes, and taako knows that they found the umbra staff next to a red robed skeleton and that the umbrella spelled out lup at one point, but none of them necessarily know all the things that the other person knew, and none of them know all the things that lucretia knows or that fisher knows or junior knows, etc etc.

unfortunately, just because the pace of the story picks up so much in that last lunar interlude, there isn’t a whole lot of space to explore that like, disconnect between all these facts that they each have as individuals. and given the perspective of mental health and the way that plays into your perceptions of yourself and your perceptions of other people’s perceptions, i really wanted to delve into like… magnus’s misunderstandings.

this is not a strictly straightforward unreliable narrator situation, but i did bring in some elements of that. i really wanted to explore the disconnect between how magnus sees and how everyone else sees him and his issues. there are also a couple moments where he flat out completely misinterprets their intentions, which unfortunately i didn’t delve into as much as i wanted to so they ended up mostly being fun easter eggs for, uh… me? i guess?

one of those moments is the scene in ch 4 where barry and magnus are sitting in the kitchen and barry starts to ask magnus something. magnus assumes it’s going to be about his mental health, and that this is barry stepping up as representative for everyone else to talk to him about it, but it’s really meant to be a precursor to their conversation in ch 6 where they talk about barry and lup and marriage and proposals.

magnus gets a little perspective on this later, i think in ch 7(?) where he’s thinking about how maybe their lives don’t completely revolve around him and he’s missing some of their perspective. but like, they all have their own shit going on, and they all love him and they’re worried about him, but also, barry is thinking about lup. lup is thinking about taako. taako is thinking about lucretia. lucretia is thinking about davenport, and davenport is thinking about his own issues, and so on and so on and they’re not all just like… waiting to pounce on magnus the second he shows weakness.

a lot of that plays into the hypervigilance of ptsd, too. magnus is very aware of any perceived threat, and he sometimes treats the people around him as threats, when all they’re doing in reality is thinking like, man i wish he didn’t live out here by himself all the time.

on a more meta note, i also have a tendency to make every character i write just like, a super good judge of character. i don’t think magnus is that, and i really wanted to lean into that. magnus does not read intention super well, even when that intention is genuinely good.

on the ipre and their relationships:

so i… really don’t write gen fic a lot. even when i do, it is almost always tinged with a little bit of background shipping, and there is some of that in this, but whereas in most fandoms i end up being a multishipper, for some reason with taz i’ve ended up pretty much only caring about the canon ships (sorry…). that being said, the platonic relationships in taz (and especially in balance) are some of the most compelling and important fictional relationships that i’ve ever encountered. like, they are just really well fucking done.

this being the magnus love letter that it is, i really wanted to focus on magnus’s distinct relationships with every member of the ipre crew. i don’t know how obvious this is in the actual narrative, but with the exception of the interlude and the epilogue, the story is broken down into one chapter for each member of the starblaster crew (in order, magnus, taako, merle, davenport, barry, lucretia, lup). i did this specifically because it was really important to me that i dive into all of them and their particular issues. i didn’t quite get the deep dive with merle or davenport that i would’ve liked to, but hopefully in the future i’ll get more time to explore that.

anyway, in case it isn’t obvious, lup is probably my favorite fictional character literally ever in any media created by anyone in the history of time. i say this only because a lot of this fic was set up to build to the conversation between her and magnus in ch 8 out on the mountain where he finally opens up for the first time. there are some really incredible unexplored parallels and relationships in taz (unexplored mainly because like, where would it even fit in canon), and while some of them are super self indulgent (ie, lup and mags, barry and mags), i really really really wanted to dig into those a little more. things like the conversation where taako is talking about everyone brushing over his trauma to rush to forgive lucretia, or lucretia talking about trying to learn to love writing again and recognize happy moments, davenport almost admitting that he’s not completely sure about stepping back into the family in his former role… i could write an entire fic on any of these, really.

but ultimately, this being a magnus fic, i tried to filter those conversations through a perspective of two things: first, how does this affect magnus and his mental health journey, and second, what can magnus do to help this. those scenes where magnus is trying to help someone with something and they’re like, backhandedly helping him are some of my favorite interactions in the fic.

the other thing i really really really wanted to explore that i never see enough of in fic is magnus and carey’s relationship. carey is canonically magnus’s best friend, and yet in fic i feel like she gets pushed to the side a little in favor of the starblaster crew. which i get, they’ve got a hundred and ten years of shared trauma, but also, travis flat out states that carey is magnus’s best friend, so… i mean, there is also a little bit of self indulgence here, because i am also a man who is exclusively best friends with lesbians, but you know.

that being said, i really wanted to emphasize that relationship in particular, which is why carey doesn’t have her own dedicated chapter and instead kind of slides in and out of each one and slowly helps magnus along the way. her personality i also feel is like, the exact kind of thing that magnus needs to push him into accepting / asking for help and moving towards recovery.

on real life parallels:

ok, i swear to god i did not intend to make this a holiday fic posted during the holidays. i started writing this in june, and again, it was only meant to be like 20k and not necessarily entirely set during candlenights. that kind of happened, anyway? candlenights just seemed like the best vessel to get all these characters whose post-canon situations i wanted to explore into the same room, and i finished the first draft around mid october and i wanted to give myself plenty of time for editing, so it honestly just ended up coincidentally aligning with the holidays. go figure.

that being said, isolation ended up featuring pretty heavily in this fic. that i think is to be expected to a certain degree given the nature of mental health and recovery and blah blah blah, but i probably unintentionally ended up leaning into it a little more because like… this year. and the holidays tend to be a time that a lot of us feel really isolated, and this year especially, but one of the big things for me this year is that like, all of my friends live out of state. the closest one to me is still a good 2-3 hour plane ride, which i am absolutely not risking. i had like a hundred plans to go see people and do things this year, and those obviously got cancelled.

probably the biggest one of those things was seeing a friend who i have kind of started a new years tradition of seeing, but we ended up calling that off out of safety considerations, of course. and it sucks! it’s not fun! i also moved out this year and i have my own place and in june i was really hoping that things would be okay by now and i could have all my friends come in from out of town for new years and that didn’t happen. and i wasn’t intending for this fic to be a kind of wish fulfillment of like, here’s my new place post-[saving the universe / coming out and becoming a real person], let me show my found family around my hometown and let’s make new holiday traditions together now that we’re no longer [fighting the apocalypse / literal children] and everything will be fun and happy and good, but that is kind of what happened anyway. [insert joke here that goes like “do you project your real world problems and mental health issues onto fictional characters or are you normal?”]

but yeah, magnus’s mental health struggles did kind of accidentally become a little bit of a pandemic / quarantine life parallel. i did not mean for that to happen, but it did help me tease out a little bit of what it is that i feel like i’m missing and what i want in the future when things are better, and i hope it helped some other people figure that stuff out too, maybe?

and in conclusion:

i said this a little bit in the final notes in the fic, but i am so so so grateful and emotional over the comments i’ve gotten from some of you. i’ve said it already, but this was such an emotional rollercoaster for me to write. i put a decent amount of my own mental health issues into the stuff i wrote into magnus, and it was genuinely therapeutic and like… super helpful and important. it was also a big struggle, and there were some scenes i came out of feeling incredibly drained and like i needed to not write for a week.

so that being said, those of you who have commented things about how this fic helped you deal with your own emotional turmoil or helped put something in perspective for you, i am genuinely so happy to hear that i’ve impacted you in that way like, at all. that is so incredible to me, and not necessarily what i set out to do, but it means so much to hear someone say that and also to know that someone felt comfortable sharing that with a stranger on the internet. thank you so so so much.

again, this fic means so much to me. the fact that it’s impacted even a handful of people in that way is absolutely amazing. some of the things you guys have said have had me seriously choked up. i am so glad that anyone even took the time to read all 133k of this, let alone that it affected people like that.

i don’t know if i’ll be writing more about magnus in this universe. i would love to! but i’m also super happy with where i’ve left his story. i have plans to explore the calen thing in the future, but only kind of tangentially in a side mention and not fully, so who knows? there is more though, a lot with taako and kravitz and lup and barry and hopefully one day i will find the motivation somewhere in me to flesh out everyone else’s situations a little more, too. who knows!

anyway, i just want to say thanks again to everyone for reading, and even more so if you are reading this dumb essay. you’re super cool.

#txt #fic talk

14 notes · View notes

elyvorg · 4 years

Note

I personally like the idea of Shuichi getting hurt or killed, because it’s a better way to develop Kaito/Kaede or even Maki. Here’s more interesting scenario, Shuichi has Kaito’s illness instead. Imagine playing as a protagonist that’s actually secretly dying all along and doing everything in his power to not give up and make sure everyone survives.

There kind of seem to be two separate ideas you’re presenting here. First you’re suggesting Shuichi getting hurt or killed for the sake of developing Kaito and/or Kaede in a “better” way, which implies that you’re not thinking that much about what this means for Shuichi himself. But then you also go on to talk about Shuichi getting sick and dying for the sake of developing him and giving him an interesting protagonist arc that’s different to what he had in canon, without mentioning what effect that would have on his friends.

After all, I don’t think it’s ever a good idea to kill off a character just to develop a different character. That’d make the character’s death feel gratuitous and not about them. Granted, in canon, Kaede and Kaito’s deaths are both partly for the purpose of Shuichi’s development, but that’s not the only reason they die. Both of them have their own arcs and stories as well, and their deaths are very much a part of their stories and not just Shuichi’s. Killing a character is something that always ought to be at least as much about the character themselves as it is about any other character who’s affected by that death. (Which, happily, Danganronpa V3 is pretty good at, a lot more so than the previous Danganronpas were.)

And that’s the thing - both Kaede and Kaito already got plenty of development in canon even though they died at the end of it. So to the first thing you’re suggesting, that hurting or killing Shuichi would be a “better” way to develop his closest friends: I don’t know if that would actually get that much significantly more out of Kaede or Kaito (or Maki) than we already got in canon.

The most interesting part of Kaede’s story was the part where she got desperate enough to commit murder in an attempt to save everyone, except it all went tragically wrong. That’s probably the most interesting thing that it’s possible to do with her, because damn was that one hell of a story. But if we’re making an AU where Kaede’s going to live long enough to develop in other ways, then presumably she didn’t murder anyone, which completely removes the most interesting parts of her character. Obviously she’s not nothing without that and there are still things that could be done with her - having her learn how to be a bit more realistic with her optimism so that she can most effectively motivate everyone without having half of them write her encouragement off as meaningless platitudes, perhaps - but I don’t think that’d ever make quite as good a story as what she had in canon.

Meanwhile, Kaito had one hell of an amazing character arc in canon. You might not call it “development” because most of it involves his issues getting steadily worse - but even then, he does show signs of making at least some progress by the end. The only reason he didn’t make more progress is because he ran out of time and died before he could get any further than he did - but on the other hand, if he hadn’t been dying, he wouldn’t have had such a great arc in the first place, so we’re kind of stuck there.

Of course, there are plenty of other things that could be done with Kaito in a somewhat different story. The most important thing to do that doesn’t quite ever properly happen in canon would be getting him to realise that it’s okay to show weakness to his sidekicks and begin to feel comfortable doing so and accepting other people’s support. But hurting or killing Shuichi in front of him is literally the opposite of how to go about doing that. Your phrasing of this ask suggests you probably read one or both of my recent asks about Shuichi getting hurt or killed, and the gist of both was that Kaito would very much not be getting anywhere with his own issues as a result. In the “hurt” one, I talked about how this would only enable Kaito’s co-dependency and make him feel even more sure that he needed to be invincible to support Shuichi. In the “killed” one, Kaito would tear himself apart with guilt over not being able to save Shuichi, which also would not help - he’d begin to move on in time because he’s an incredibly resilient person, but he’d probably cope by making himself even more determined not to fail his next sidekick, which would not mix well with his conviction that showing any weakness to his sidekicks whatsoever counts as failing them.

The best way to force Kaito to learn how to accept support is to have him be the vulnerable one who needs it, and let Shuichi (and Maki) remain strong and capable of giving that support to him. This is exactly what canon did, and yes, it didn’t succeed, because Kaito is so ridiculously stubborn about hiding his weakness that his friends didn’t notice the problem until it was far too late to help. Which means that you’d also have to add some kind of extra scenario which forces Kaito to show weakness against his will so that his sidekicks can understand his issues and tell him what an idiot he’s being. Trust me, I’ve thought about this a lot.

And similarly, since Kaede is also someone whose problem if anything is that she’s too selfless, hurting or killing Shuichi would not be the ideal way to go about getting her to fix that either. Doing that to Shuichi for the sake of developing Kaede or Kaito just isn’t quite an idea that works (at least if you’re talking about them “developing” in terms of fixing their issues), because it’s Kaede and Kaito.

You mentioned Maki too, and I kind of glossed over her for most of this, but she also gets a lot of development in canon anyway. I’m not sure if killing Shuichi would have changed much about that, especially since she already canonically goes through the pain of losing someone important to her when Kaito dies.

But what about the other thing you’re suggesting, which is that making Shuichi suffer more by giving him the virus Kaito had in canon would make a more interesting story for him? Well, the thing is, if Shuichi had that virus… he wouldn’t really react like you’re describing at all. Unlike Kaito, Shuichi is more than happy to depend on others and accept their help, so the moment he realised he was sick and possibly dying, he would immediately tell Kaito (and/or Kaede, if she’s somehow alive here) what’s going on with him, even if he didn’t necessarily expect them to know how to fix it. There’d be no “secretly” about the fact he was dying, not if it was Shuichi.

And if the others knew Shuichi was dying from an illness they couldn’t treat while stuck in the Academy? If they knew anyone was dying like that, no matter who it was? They’d escape. In canon, nobody was willing enough to risk their lives to escape, not when it felt safer to stay there and naively hope another killing simply wouldn’t happen. But if one of their friends was definitely going to die if they didn’t get out of there and get them to a hospital in time? They’d have taken that risk. Keebo’s weapons are capable of fighting the Exisals and blowing a hole in the wall, while Miu can make gadgets that disable or control Exisals and could have been used to help escape if Kokichi had cared about doing so. Escape was entirely possible in chapter 4 if only they’d had a strong enough motivation to try. The only reason that someone having a deadly illness didn’t cause them all to escape like that in canon was because the sick person in question happened to be a far-too-selfless idiot who was convinced he had to be invincible to be inspiring and therefore never wanted anyone to know he was dying.

Imagine playing as a protagonist that’s actually secretly dying all along and doing everything in his power to not give up and make sure everyone survives.

Don’t get me wrong, you’re presenting a compelling story here - but it’s not the story you’d get if Shuichi had that illness. Instead, well… you basically just described what we’d get if we had the exact same story as canon V3, only with Kaito as the protagonist.

And, I mean, hell to the yes I would be all over that. He always was the hero of his own story, after all! It might even get more of the fandom to actually realise what an amazing character arc Kaito has if we’d been able to see inside his head the whole time, instead of having everything about him be as subtle as it is. But, alas. And, hey, I love the subtlety of Kaito’s arc the way it is now, so I’m not precisely complaining.

(Obviously I’m not entirely sure how a Kaito game would manage to do any trial gameplay, since Kaito is decidedly not great at the detective thing, but, you know.)

#danganronpa v3 #danganronpa v3 spoilers #kaede akamatsu #kaito momota #shuichi saihara #kaito's hero issues #thanks for the ask!#even though i basically disagreed with all of it this was fun to talk about!#ramble #Anonymous

18 notes · View notes

someobscurereference · 7 years

Note

hey so i love your fe stuff! its soo good! but ive noticed that most of it is either gen or takes place after the relationships have gotten together (which is fine, i love that) but it did make me curious if youd be willing to share some of your headcanons (for odin/niles/leo, camilla/beruka/selena, and xander/laslow) for how they got together/developed feelings for one another? im very curious about your take on it bc i love your characterization! thank u so much for writing such beautiful fics

Aww, thank you, anon!! FE13/14 isn’t as popular as it probably once was and I definitely joined the writing fic for it part of the fandom pretty late, so I’m so pleased to hear that you enjoy my fics! Thank you!!

Secondly, anon….This is gonna be mega long and I hope you’re prepared for that, lmao (Also if you had any other questions or anything, don’t be afraid to send another ask!)

I don’t know if I have any “set in stone” headcanons for how any of these three pairs get together because I’m a multishipper who loves AUs, but if we’re talking about canon FE14 universe, I definitely have some thoughts as to how that’s going to go.

I’m gonna blabble a lot now

Odin/Niles/Leo

I actually feel like Odin would have the easiest time accepting dating people anyone, even if they’re a prince or a coworker or two people at once or he feels he has to travel to another dimension in a few years.

Like, he’s very? Pragmatic? Not necessarily 24/7 (because he loves to tell tales and exaggerate and roleplay) but Big Decisions. Like in Hidden Truths DLC, when Laslow and Selena are questioning where they should go when it’s time to leave Nohr–their home dimension with their family’s graves or to return to the world where their parents are still alive–iirc, Odin is the first one to say “We can worry about this later, we just have to deal with this now.” It’s not that he doesn’t care as much, because he super does, but I think he like? Compartmentalizes a little more? In the FE13 Future Past DLC, when he and Inigo are stuck on one side of the bridge and Brady and Yarne are on the other, Owain talks through what’s going to happen if they try to cross the bridge until he gets to the conclusion, “If you go and I stay behind, the most people in this scenario live and we still succeed, even if that means my death.” When Inigo cuts the brige with both of them on one side, Owain says, “We don’t both have to die!” Now part of this is Owain/Odin’s dramatic personality and the (probably unhealthy) self-sacrificing tendencies he almost certainly had during his years before jumping through time and even some time after, even Inigo acknowledges that Owain’s plan was probably the best way to get the gemstone to Ylisse (though not the best plan for Owain’s life.) He’s also the one who adjusts most to living in Nohr, by which I mean his homesickness and memories of Ylisse seem to weigh on him the least. While he admits to Selena in their Supports that he also is unable to sleep at night from his memories, Selena and Laslow’s Supports with him are more about their problems with missing home and he has become a kind of shoulder to lean on between the three of them.

Anyway all of this is basically evidence to say that Odin is pretty reasonable and levelheaded when not indulging in his imagination (which was almost definitely a coping mechanism of some kind in his younger years, though it may have become a bit more of an innocent hobby by the time he’s in Nohr… though I don’t want this to get dark, OTL)

ANYWAY! I think Odin is has the easiest time adjusting between all three of the Time Travel Trio, but I don’t know if he’s necessarily the one to make the first move in anything? If anything, it would have to be all three make a move at the same time (through some circumstance) or Niles/Leo get together first (even though Niles thinks his purpose in life is to “serve” Leo until he dies via their Supports and Leo probably wouldn’t want to put anyone in a weird position considering his status). I’ve written past stuff where Odin gets confident and does something bold like sit in Laslow’s lap and kiss him while Laslow bemoans never having a first kiss, and while I think Odin could catch onto moves being made on him and be down for it, I don’t think he’d be as likely to do something as bold as that for Niles/Leo like he would for someone he’s known years and years, like Laslow or Selena.

The thing about Niles is that… Idk, I don’t think he views himself as garbage? (Unless there’s a support I don’t remember.) But he definitely thinks of himself as “lower” than Leo, who he views as having saved his life and literally is the start to “good” memories in Nile’s mind. I’m not sure he’d ever make a move on Leo and compromise that relationship he values so highly unless it was something he felt Leo needed or something out of his control. (Like doing something to save Leo’s life and Leo is like “Hey do you have Feelings for me” and Niles, broken out in a cold sweat, hands shaking, answers “I mean Yes, but it doesn’t have to be weird…. unless u want that.”

For Leo, I don’t think he really thinks about love unless it’s right there in his face. Either because he’s thinking about marriage for political reasons/someone else is getting married or because Niles/Odin is hanging around a lot and he’s like “What is this Feeling, it’s highly inconvenient but I cannot deny it exists”. (Also another thing about him is that he’s probably a little uncomfortable with Nile’s… Pedestal, I guess? For him. Like, he knows Niles values him a lot and vice versa but when Niles is like “You’re the reason my life is good and I will serve you until I Die For You,” Leo is like “I don’t know what to say but I guess ‘Thank you’ is the right response.” So he probably wouldn’t want to take advantage of Nile’s feelings either.)

(The thing about all the Royal Nohrian Sibs is that they are under the watchful eye of Garon for most of their life, and that’s a huge influence on what they are or aren’t willing to do in terms of romance until the Big Slime is no longer an issue for them. So that’s a major factor as well.)

I think Niles and Odin make a great team, but Niles is initially very suspicious when Odin/Selena/Laslow show up out of the blue and even when he trusts Odin later on, he does use that suspicion as a little jab on Odin’s origins in their C-Support when they’re having an annoyed argument. They both apologize to each other later with Odin conceding that Niles was right and his actions weren’t out of line, and while Nile’s is like, “Aw, I shouldn’t have done that, Lord Leo trusts you and that’s enough for me,” the secretiveness of Odin’s past is like. An undercurrent in their relationship on both their parts for a long time. (While meanwhile Leo does not give a single fuck what you did or who you were before you met him so long as he knows what kind of person you are now.)

So with all this I can absolutely see Niles and Leo getting together and Odin being supportive from the sidelines for a Long Time as Niles/Leo either pine a little secretly (maybe separately) or they don’t really realize their own feelings for Odin or the idea all three of them could be a thing until later. (Bc Odin is not gonna intrude on something he feels he shouldn’t and when it’s a better idea not to.) (However, if that opportunity appears and everything is Chill, Odin is absolutely Hell Yeah, down for it.)

(This didn’t really come up anywhere before but? Leo and Odin’s supports?? Are so Much????? Like, Leo doesn’t want to send Odin out on any more “adventures” he used to because according to Leo: “uh that was to be a dick to you and I literally Cannot imagine living without you now because you’re so Valuable to me, so you can’t go on any Mega Dangerous missions, sorry.” He says he wont’ keep Odin from being his own person and leaving Nohr but that he honestly wishes Odin would stay and if he does leave, all the victories afterwards will be a little “bittersweet” without Odin there. Also if Odin does leave, Leo asks that he use his title as Leo’s retainer still so there will always be that “connection” between them.

Like??? Holy shit??

It was here that Leo struck me as the type of person to want Niles and Odin by his side literally Forever in whatever form that relationship may be, even if nothing romantic ever comes from it.)

Camilla/Beruka/Selena

My girl!! Selena!!! I love her!!!! I’ve probably written the least about Selena (I have like one unfinished Selena/Laslow/Odin fic on my computer and that’s probably it besides maybe a tiny Selena/Noire thing I wrote 2 sentences of and never finished either) but!! I think about her a lot and I love my girl!!

I rambled a lot with Odin/Niles/Leo so to cut to the chase here a bit more, Camilla/Beruka/Selena probably comes from Selena’s need to be validated and prove that she’s the Best. Camilla always reassures Selena that she’s “darling, powerful, and obedient,” which are qualities Camilla values a lot in a retainer. I think Camilla, for all her ruthlessness, also has a lot of love in her heart and so she is a little smitten with Selena (and Beruka) from the start because of these qualities they share. Camilla gets melancholy when she thinks about how Selena might leave her one day and wants Selena to know she is Camilla’s. I don’t think Camilla would ever do or say anything about her feelings while under the watchful eye of Garon because she’s not stupid and she knows what will happen if she tries to get too close to anyone while he’s within reach, but she’s not lying. When she says she loves Selena and Beruka, she really does mean it, even if her meaning gets lost in the context of all the other times she says she loves Corrin and Elise and her other siblings and such.

(As a side note, Camilla and Selena’s C-Support is so fucking funny to me because Selena is like “hey I’m your favorite, right?” and Camilla is straight up like “I would rather murder you than you leave” and Selena’s like “that’s not….what I wanted you to say…”. Camilla is so fucking Extra??? I love it. Though she’s honestly very scary too, so that element of humor is one I’m taking with grain of salt because Camilla is also truthful in her violence. Their B-Support is similar.)

This same drive to be the Best is what causes Selena and Beruka to butt heads in their C-Support, but they show they understand each other well by calling out each other’s complexities and flaws while arguing. Later, they show they care about each other by apologizing in the B-Support, and it’s shown for all her emotionless attitude, Selena can get Beruka to smile the tiniest bit while supporting her and telling Beruka that she should do the things she loves, even if that thing is work, and that Selena is her friend. (Beruka’s questioning of “Should I really bury myself in my work?” also shows that she took Selena’s earlier words of “What even makes you You if all you do is your work/only do things for money?”. So Selena’s views do impact Beruka.)

I’m rereading their A support right now and?? It’s so sweet? Selena wants to get matching jewelry for all three of them as a symbol of their connection (and for when Selena leaves) and Beruka accepts this, despite Selena requesting she not get something that doubles as a weapon, and also says she wouldn’t wear the matching jewelry if Selena were gone because it would be “lonely” and she’d only wear it if Selena were there so she wouldn’t lose it. Like? They value each other a lot. Beruka indulges Selena in this and by extension says she’s “enjoying” herself as well–something Beruka rarely does at all.

Beruka is a little more hesitant around Camilla, but that’s likely a response to Camilla being her employer and Beruka placing so much value in her work. It’s a complicated situation for someone who isn’t as casual as Selena or Odin are with their Lord/Lady. Beruka admits she would betray Camilla if offered something better from another employer, but that possibility is so unlikely because she doesn’t think she could find anyone she trusts as much as Camilla. For an assassin, trust is a big deal. Camilla is a huge part of Beruka’s heart even if Beruka doesn’t recognize it the same way someone else might. Camilla, on her part, is pleased but orders Beruka not to throw herself away in the process because Beruka means a lot to her. Their relationship is a bit different than Camilla and Selena’s or Selena and Beruka’s because of their unique dynamic and how seriously Beruka takes herself. Camilla is somewhat less affectionate when alone with Beruka, most likely because it makes Beruka uncomfortable. The affection is still there; Beruka just doesn’t yearn for it as much and so Camilla backs off a bit. Beruka is very truthful about the realities of life–both Beruka’s job and how she’ll probably stick with Camilla forever, even if she doesn’t explicitly say so. They’re good.

I’m getting off track again, sorry. I love character analysis. ANYWAY!

Camilla/Selena/Beruka would probably get together all at the same time because Camilla wouldn’t want anyone to misunderstand or feel left out (even if Beruka would insist she didn’t feel anything about it, she probably would.) Selena would probably push about being the Best Retainer again and Camilla would say something like, “Oh, but I love you both equally” and pull Beruka and Selena close. Selena would probably grumble something like “but do you really?” or “but who do you love more?” or something, letting a little jealousy take hold. Camilla probably wouldn’t stand for this, both on the basis that she loves them equally and that this has been probably going on for years.

To be honest, I could see them kind of… falling into it. Like Camilla kissing Selena’s forehead or cheek, leaving a big lipstick mark behind and while Selena sputters, face red and brain reeling, Camilla does the same thing to Beruka.

“Wha–What’s that supposed to mean?” Selena asks, eyes rolling in her head and steam coming from her ears.

“I told you,” Camilla says simply. “You are both my precious, darling retainers.”

Beruka, eyes closed in thought: “Hm.”

And before anybody can do anything else, Camilla’s like, “okay, chop-chop, we have things to do, people to kill” and they just go about doing their daily jobs and fighting battles. And anytime Selena or even Beruka tries to question it, Camilla’s like, “I told you, I love you both” and kisses their cheek again. Eventually maybe Beruka and Selena talk a little among themselves, but honestly I really see them falling into it after that. Kissing their foreheads every time they separate (never the mouth in the beginning, unless Selena or Beruka initiate because this isn’t supposed to be a pressured thing). Selena and Beruka heading off to their own rooms at night and Camilla telling them they can stay with her if they want. Selena’s a bit rowdy, but I think she’d be content with starting off like this just because it’s Camilla. (She might confront someone if anyone else tried to pull this move.)

(I take most C-A Supports for all party members as having really happened in-game eventually, so this might even be after Beruka’s support with Odin where he tries to help her understand her own emotions through mimicking facial expressions and looking within herself and stuff via lying about magic spells. So Beruka might discover a bit more about herself here too, like “Hmm, is this what love feels like? It must be.” Even though she’d probably been feeling it for a while and not recognizing it.)

Xander/Laslow

The thing about Xander/Laslow is that while Camilla and Leo have varying levels of more freedom between the two of them, Xander is The Crown Prince. He’s the one to take the throne. He has do what’s best for the people, and he’s always going to put Nohr before himself. On the flipside, Laslow is a flirt but he knows how fickle life can be and often laments the fleeting connections between people as they only have a short time in this world (he gets super melancholy in some of his supports; he hides his sadness a lot but it’s there), and I don’t think he’d want to jeopardize his relationship with Xander or put him in a bad position either. Plus, he’s super-duper homesick, so he wouldn’t want to start anything he felt he couldn’t finish either.

I really think there’d have to be a big catalyst for their relationship to begin. One of two things probably has to happen.

1. Something really relieves Xander of his pressures as King and makes him relaxed enough to maybe request a kiss or courtship from Laslow one day, if/when Laslow ever feels he wants it, no pressure (though I don’t know what this event would be; Xander feels LOT of responsibility. Duty chains him more than anything. Even if he feels mentally exhausted by everything and restraining his feelings on top of that, he’s always going to be stuck unless something forces him to move or slackens that grip.) (Laslow, in turn, is also chained by what he feels is his obligation and memories to return to Ylisse some day, so he’s stuck a bit too.)

2. Like in Home (Is Where The Heart Is) (spoilers), Xander realizes if he doesn’t do something, he will lose Laslow forever In This Moment, Right Now and (as this is a huge fear) Goes For It via Kiss of Life or pouring his feelings out. (I really think Xander is the type of person to make huge declarations of devotion and love while Laslow melts into a huge blushing puddle in the corner while crying from being overwhelmed.)

They would mutually pine. A Lot.

I’ve written a lot less for them but I’ve written so much already and I think at least one of these two events are really the needed qualifications for a Xander/Laslow relationship to happen in canon universe. (There are other AUs on ao3 that are super good and probably do a better job of imagination than I will here, so :p)

All three relationships probably have an undercurrent of Devotion For My Lord/Lady because they are all retainers/royals first and foremost and jobs come first, but that’s an interesting dynamic to work around in itself.

Even if were only friendship between them all, I really like how Odin/Selena/Laslow are so willing to say, “MY Lord/Lady is the best one!” (I’m mostly thinking of the Beach DLC where everyone fought for that beach trip, whether or not their Lord/Lady wanted it.) They love the Royal Nohrians so much, no matter the context.

(RIP Me, this is super long and I just spent the last 2 hours writing it. If there was anything you wanted me to expand on, let me know! I’m a blabber mouth.)

#fe14 #my text #death mention #odin/niles/leo #camilla/beruka/selena #xanlow #long post #you can probably spot who i love the most throughout this wall of text #but i love them all so much #there are lots of fics i'll never write but i think about fe so much

21 notes · View notes

girl-outta-hell · 4 years

Text

{{ Questions for Canon Muses

{{ Found the questions here:

https://fallxnprxnce.tumblr.com/post/160809400830/questions-for-muns-of-canon-muses

1. What is the biggest headcanon deviation from the canon material that you have incorporated into the way you write your muse? Why did you come up with it? I am incredibly attached to canon, so I try not to deviate from it, as much as possible. There is one detail, which doesn't exactly deviate from canon... but I took a little detail from the comics and twisted it into something freshly agonizing.

In the original comics, Raven's mentor and all of Azarath's spiritual leader died (of old age) when Raven was 10. Now, considering the DCAU movies, 10 looks to be just about how old Raven was when she brought Trigon to Azarath... so I kept the comic!canon that Azar died when Raven was 10, but headcanon that rather than dying of old age, she died alongside all the rest of the Azaratheans by Trigon's hands.

As for what possessed me to conclude that, I have no idea whatsoever, and can only point in the vague direction of "I Was Trying to Figure Out How Old She Was", and then it just kinda clicked.

3. What is something that was never addressed at all in the canon material that you have independently developed for your muse? Raven's methods of coping with having an abusive parent literally attached to her head? I think we'll be seeing some Conflict of That Nature in the upcoming movie, but as for the daily struggle, that’s all me.

4. Have you made any outright changes to the canon material in order to write your muse the way you wanted (entire scenes you chose to omit, chapters you say never existed, things you assume were never said, etc.)? I say I take comic canon into consideration to fill in the gaps where the movie doesn't address canon fact... but when I say "comics", I pretty specifically mean the New Teen Titans comics, and even THEN, I intentionally and specifically don't count anything after, oh, maybe 1989?, during or after the Wildebeest / Titans Hunt storyline. Aside from being confusing and convoluted, I've just never felt compelled to address that story in anything I've ever touched.

(Besides the over-arching and undeniably canon fact that Raven is really hard to kill in such a way that she’ll stay dead-forever. I keep that. I love that about her.)

But the absolutely WORST comic canon that I absolutely REFUSE to acknowledge as ANYTHING other than a terrible fanfic is definitely the Sons of Trigon plot from the 2008 issues of "Titans". Vast potential for phobia triggers aside, Raven was so terribly out of character, the story was poorly written, the writers ignored everything Marv Wolfman had ever written (Trigon HIMSELF said Raven was his ONLY heir! over and over and over again), mathematically it just didn't work (there's no way between that time and the time of Titans that Trigon had 6 more grown-adult kids), The NOTP was there and they laid it on out-of-characteristically thick, the fact that I put more effort and development into my own canon-compliant OC than whoever wrote those comics (who didn't seem to bother reading ANY of Raven's history with Trigon), just... so many reasons. I despise that story and will never lift anything from it as any kind of inspiration. You ever want to get me Instantly Salty, just remind me that story was published by Actually Factually DC Comics. I'm disgusted.

5. What is an aspect of your muse’s canon material or canon existence that you never had the opportunity to explore but really want to? Ah, much better! Truth be told, that's what I write fanfiction for, so most of the answers I could put here have already been penned (whether it's in a file or actually posted). Things like, what if Raven DID have a sibling? Can she fall ill from MAGICAL things? How does she cope with the guilt of everything she feels is her fault? And of course, the 80's comics dedicated an entire issue to exploring her upbringing in Azarath, so that has already been explored quite explicitly. And even on the fluffy side, JLvTT explored her actually Having Fun, which was super nice to see and warms my heart... but, you know, A Happy Raven could always use more exploring. c: Not just in "distraction" either, but comforting her? Heal The Child!! I can and I will address her grief and loss and SEE her HEALING! Not just healing other people, but HERSELF as well!!

6. What is the general opinion of your muse’s fandom about them? Do you agree with it? Eh, this particular side of the TT fandom is a lot more liberal with her emotions than I've ever seen any reason for? I mean, statistically, she does smile more in this verse than in other aspects of canon, but she still restrains her emotion and she still acts distant and aloof most of the time. She definitely cares and engages and smiles, but like.... not nearly so much, or as quickly, as people tend to write or draw. I don't even think we've ever seen her cry, solely excepting the scene where she's watching Trigon destroy Azarath. Despite all the terrible things that have happened. That says something.

7. For movie or TV muses, what is your muse’s favorite scene? Why? Can you show a screenshot? Ohogsh, well, her favorite moments are absolutely the times the Titans spend together, as a family. If it weren’t for everything that happened immediately after, the carnival scenes would’ve been among the sweetest time of her life thus far. The things I imagine being her ABSOLUTE favorite weren’t shown on screen, things like Christmas mornings and movie nights, game nights, not even necessarily moments where she was involved, but just times when they’re having a good time, relaxed and enjoying each others’ company. (Especially as an empath, those moments are wonderful.)

I also like to think she’s especially proud of Damian’s growth, but I can’t put it down to a Particular Moment...

8. For movie or TV muses, what is a scene with your muse that you hate? Why? Can you show a screenshot? (So... Suicide tw on this one. Thanks, JLD:AW.)

Seeing her in pain and struggling and suffering always pierces the most tender and sensitive parts of my heart... but that moment... that scene, the one we've only GLIMPSED, in previews no less, from Justice League Dark: Apokolips War. Where she's on her knees, and she's holding something to her throat... and she pulls back... and she's legitimately genuinely right on the precipice of committing suicide? That has shaken me more than any self-deprecation or guilt or ostracization or loneliness from her ever had before. I don't "hate" it, but gods, it hurts, knowing she was right there, and ready to do that. Because you only actually DO that when you're so destroyed and hopeless and agonized and empty that there isn't any room for hope or recovery in your mind, and it just.... It struck a personal chord in me, let's just say that. ;; I only have Guesses about why she's so ready, but every single one of them just HURTS so MUCH. Whatever it was, it hurt HER so much! Gods. I'm trembling. I just... well I hate that she was so broken, she felt like that was the answer.

(okay.... tw over.)

9. For movie or TV muses, what other character played by your muse’s actor/actress has a lot in common with your muse? I'm not enough of a TV person to know what else Taissa Farmiga has been in, unfortunately. I know she's done some work in the horror genre, but that's it.

10. For book muses, what is your muse’s favorite scene? Why? Can you provide a short excerpt? 11. For book muses, what is a scene with your muse that you hate? Why? Can you provide a short excerpt? 12. For book muses, what other character from a book or book series has a lot in common with your muse?

13. What canon character do you really wish your muse could interact more with? Within canon, or within RPs? Because within canon, I'm looking forward to seeing how she interacts with John Constantine. So much. And, I won't lie, I'm desperately curious to see if/how she has any further reactions with Clark, after that devastating life-saving moment we saw in the previews...

~ As far as RPs though, more interaction with the other Titans would be great. Warm-and-fuzzies and camaraderie. Though, as an OC creator, I'd also love to give more love to other OCs?~ I love learning about All-New Characters! I love exploring Raven's interactions with someone she's never met before; someone I know nothing about! And as a writer, I love giving others the opportunity to explore and develop their characters. c: It's a bit of a broad stroke, but it's no less true.

14. What is your ideal AU for your muse? I actually... don't do AUs? I mentioned my fondness for canon, but, heh, this 'verse already feels like a bit of an AU to me! (I've spent nearly 2/3 of my life loving on the '03 cartoon and the 80's comics, so this DCAU-verse Raven was a whole new constellation of my favorite traits! Plus some younger, softer, vulnerable traits that I also love, and entirely new character dynamics with the new team. Even a whole new sHIP???) Anyways, I guess my point is, this already IS my ideal AU for Raven~

15. What plots/interactions leave you feeling protective of your muse? Bold of you to assume I'm not ALWAYS feeling protective of her. But anything that hits a vulnerable spot for her, particularly in the spots I can relate to her on... (Which are a lot of them, honestly, but some hurt more than others.) I called her "my little soul-sister" today, and I meant that with every fiber of my being. So seeing her hurt? Protective Mode: Auto-Engaged!

#{ {{ Rae mun * ooc * announcements }} }#questions list

0 notes