#If i see one more person say byler can't happen because it doesn't MAKE SENSE | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

acedream · 2 years

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Now LISTEN remember when thasmin shippers were laughed at? It took four years of the most subtle touches and looks and metaphors but it was CONFIRMED.

This is a million year old space alien and her little earth gf and you tell me two gay best friends in the 80s isn't realistic????

#Thasmin gif by thefutureisporcelain #And byler gif from lousolversons #If i see one more person say byler can't happen because it doesn't MAKE SENSE #I'll lose my mind #Byler

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thefirstlioveyou · 3 months

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What will Mike and Will's S5 Fight Be About?

Shawn Levy basically confirme/implied another angsty Byler fight for S5.

But, what will it be about? Some think it'll be about the painting, but personally, I don't think so at all. I believe the fight will be about Mike's internalized homophobia; Mike will be afraid to romantically be with Will and it hurts Will.

First off, I don't think Mike would be mad for him hiding his feelings or lying about the painting. The sole purpose of the painting lie is to open a gate way to Mike knowing how Will feels about him. It's a set up. Why would he be mad that it was Will who thought those amazing things about him? He's in love with Will.

Now, let's see the common traits that all Byler fights have:

miscommunication, but they both want the same thing

is about their relationship

mike projecting

happens pretty early on, episodes 3-4

triggered by a shift in their relationship/mike doing something

they are alone

It's pretty predictable that S5 will focus on Mike's feelings for Will and be in Will's position this time. He's gonna be a yearning, gay mess! However, it doesn't make sense to copy every little thing as that wouldn't bring anything new to the table. It would quite frankly feel lazy and boring.

I actually believe they will be honest about how they feel episodes 3-4 (after Mike discovers the truth about the painting, what would be the shift in their relationship), and it will be a very angsty scene rather than a happily-ever-after moment (for now). Here's how I picture it: Will wants a relationship with Mike, Mike wants one too, but he's reluctant to because of the shame and bit of denial still lingering.

As understanding as one can be in this situation, it's also hurtful to hear on the receiving end. I can imagine it makes Will very upset. After so long of waiting for Mike, waiting to see if his feelings could be reciprocated, he finally gets it but doesn't get to keep it because of the shame Mike feels. Will does indeed feel like a mistake for his sexuality but, as he also states, Mike makes him feel otherwise. So, if he heard the same person that makes him feel better for who he is, say he's wrong for being the same thing he is.... that would HURT Will terribly. In Will's eyes, he will truthfully believe Mike doesn't want him, even if in Mike's POV, he wants nothing more than Will. This is where the miscommunication comes in play.

This is a real thing that happens in many Queer relationships even to today, when one is ready and the other is not yet. There is no bad guy (unless cheating, abuse, etc is involved of course) in these type of situations. You can sympathize with both sides... Which makes this a perfect fight to watch as the audience; it wouldn't make you hate either of the characters.

Some people say Mike’s accepted his sexuality by the end of S4, but I feel like if he did, it wouldn’t really be a good set up for him to be Vecna’d in S5. His struggle with who he is and his relationship with El is crucial to S5. If we keep Mike struggling with his sexuality and his trauma regarding El, this gives a purpose for him to be Vecna'd, which is the perfect way to explain a lot of his character the past seasons. Similar to how Max escaped Vecna the first time, Mike would do something similar (with the help of others, of course). He will have to accept the mistakes he's made, accept past events that were out of his control and accept who he is, or let himself die. Rather than focus so much on saving others or being needed to others, he must save himself now, for himself. He has to finally believe he is the heart. Finally confronting and accepting what he can't change will bring his character and his relationships to a full circle. It would explain his dynamic with El and Will the whole series. He will finally have the self-confidence he lost.

As much as people want Byler to have an established relationship in S5, I don't think that's likely. With a fight already implied to happen again (most likely early on), it wouldn't make much sense? They're a slow burn on top of that... The season is building up to them being together, it's not them already together (at least I don't think so).

The writers can obviously find a different route, but I feel like this would work and fit well. It would save Mike's character perfectly and it connects with the Mike being vecna'd, or at least in danger, theories; It gives it more purpose.

I just can't really imagine what else the fight would be about. It has to be about their relationship and it has to be about it changing in some way. Mike's weird behavior still needs to be explained... so I would think the fight has to be connected to the reason for that behavior. The fight would then be about his internalized homophobia. And if it is, it has to be explicitly about it, not just subtext like S3 fight.

Rather than “It’s not my fault you don’t like girls” and insulting Will, Mike straight up will have to be like, “I’m scared, what if this is wrong? I don’t know how to do this.” “This isn’t right.” This time Mike will be direct how he feels about HIMSELF, but Will would still be hurt because this is the same guy that made him feel better for being Gay…

If this is how the fight plays out, lord hold me because I won’t survive it😭😭😭

#writing this in one go with no revision #byler #mike wheeler #will byers #stranger things

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kaypeace21 · 2 years

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Mike's "superman' reference may be pro byler (mini analysis)

The more I think about it the weirder I find it , that Mike compared El to super-MAN. For a few reasons ...

1.Because mike is a comic book nerd who should be able to select a hero/heroine who is more similar to el, than superman. in s1 he was into fantastic 4, and the xmen. Will in s1, wanted a xmen comic about Jean gray ( a telekenetic woman). Mike could have compared El to her , or various other characters, like "wonder woman" (who max compared El to) or literally "supergirl" (which is what argyle called El). He's a comic book nerd who chose superman (instead of a more similar hero). Despite the fact el and superman are very different from one another. But oddly enough, superman and Will actually parallel more...

2. superman & el have opposite backstories/childhoods - which greatly shaped them as characters . Which is why superman is an awful comparison, especially in a season that explores el's childhood.

Superman had great power but : he had a relatively normal childhood. He, from birth, was placed in the care of human parents. He was raised human,despite his powers.

El has great power but : beacuse of it, was raised in a government lab with no parents, and dehumanized and raised to be a weapon - it's the opposite of superman's childhood.

Superman became a hero , because he was raised to be human. El became a hero inspite of others trying to strip away her humanity. They're literal opposites.

3. The st comic" zombie boy " : has someone mention "superman" to Will. Both "superman" scenes happen because of Will showing his art.

And if Will ends up having powers- the superman parallel would make a bit more sense for him . Because Will & Clarke kent (superman) both had similar childhoods.

- Clarke's adopted dad is named Jonathan. And will's brother / psuedo father figure is jonathan.

-being poor small town boys. Who were bullied

- superman has the "fortress of solitude" . WIll had 'castle byers".

-And the (comic) plotpoint of Clarke's first day of kindergarten sounds very similar to byler first meeting in kindergarten: "Clark's first day at school isn't as difficult as he expects and he ends up making many friends at school, until he notices a girl, Samantha, sitting alone in the playground; ostracized for being different. Clark decided that he wants to befriend the girl, but feared that if he did, he'd lose all the friends he'd made up to that point. Consulting with his parents, they advise him to befriend the girl regardless of his classmates' opinions"

Mike doesn't even realize he channeled Clark kent when first meeting and befriending Will. It's almost the opposite of how Mike feels about first meeting El . Mike's insecure and says El is superman, and he's inferior to Louis lane (superman's human love interest). Then he says about m*leven "it wasn't fate" and he just got "lucky superman landed on his door step". The first byler meeting parallels a scene that shows Clarke's humanity as a normal person- clark kent. M*leven's first meeting parallels " superman landing on Louis' door step": which shows mike still hero worships el , a struggle that Louis had in some versions. The movie scene mike mentions is where she was obsessed/loved the idea of superman the hero (who landed at her door), but was oblivious to clarke the human being , right beside her. I feel like mike does struggle to see El (the person) and not El (the superhero). He called her a superhero 3x in s4...

-Also "batman v superman " was comfirmed inspo for s4. It's the sequel to " man of steal". In man of steel: clarke (like Will) has a supernatural episode at school-and starts seeing things others can't. And their moms have to rush over to the school to snap them out of their episodes . The staging is similar and both boys love plaid and bowl cuts lol.

(in man of steel) we also see a photograph: both boys win the science fair with a volcano project... the photographs are so similar ...

Clarke kent is also like Will in obvious ways: he usually blends in the crowd, is considered nerdy in some versions, no one assumes he has powers, and often people underestimate or belittle him. He was even bullied as a kid/teen (again depending on the version,in 'man of steel' he was bullied alot) . And not exaggerating clarke (like Will) sems to really love plaid in almost every version Haha

#byler #stranger things

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runninguplenorahills · 1 year

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I hate how El has become that character in a fandom where the second you say anything that isn't absolute unabashed praise about her, people lose their minds.

The characters from the show are interesting because they were written to have faults. There's nothing appealing about a character who is written as this perfect angel. But for some reason, there are fans who want to treat El that way.

Honestly, I think it's done in part to deter people from criticizing Mleven. If you can't have an intelligent conversation about the character that involves saying anything even remotely negative about El, you can't truly analyze her character or her relationships.

Since all of the arguments for Mleven require people to purposely see everything only at a surface level (the second you look at any details the scenes fall apart,) this deters people from looking into things and having discussions. If you can be called ableist just for pointing out that El didn't have a typical childhood or chauvinistic just for saying she doesn't need a boyfriend, people are going to be scared to write anything that actually could be critical about her or the ship.

Yes exactly!! It’s so frustrating because people start dismissing real human flaws and emotions for El. And it simply does not make any sense to me because exactly those human flaws and emotions are what makes a character good! Because real people have flaws and therefore the flawed characters are just more relatable to the audience!

But the funniest thing to me is how most bylers rant about how melvins go absolutely ballistic whenever we point out El’s flaws but then they go exactly as insane when other bylers point out Will’s flaws!! And it pisses me off even more because as you said, most people who pretend El doesn’t have flaws are melvins who take everything at surface level. For them, everything is as flat as cardboard, the story, the characters, the relationships, etc. So it really is no wonder that they’ll deny that El has flaws and dismiss her very human emotions in favor of putting her on this pedestal of perfection. There never was any room for a good conversation with a melvin anyway but with bylers??? We all look below the surface! We all peek behind the curtain! We all explore the different facets of plot, characters and relationships! But somehow there are still people who unironically dismiss Will’s flaws!?!???

And it’s just so incredibly frustrating to see Will’s jealousy portrayed on screen and some bylers will still argue that Will doesn’t get jealous, he’s just hurt ……which honestly makes me question if they even know what jealousy is?? Anyway, my point is that while jealousy is not a nice emotion and therefore seen as a flaw, it is literally one of the most basic and natural human flaws there is!!! It’s literally so fucking normal to get jealous sometimes and especially in Will’s situation!! Literally, who the fuck wouldn’t have gotten jealous??? Will’s jealousy in those moments is the most appropriate emotion for what’s happening!! But some people see jealousy as such a negative emotion that they totally dismiss that their poor flawless baby Will could ever feel such a thing 😤. But then they turn around and go: “hmm yeah but Mike actually gets sooooo jealous”, because putting Will on a pedestal of perfection goes hand in hand with letting Mike rot in the abyss and assign every negative emotion to him, AND IT’S SO FUCKING INFURIATING!!!

Simply because the thought behind making a character flawed is that the audience can relate to it! They can relate to having those flaws, and so seeing characters like Will being flawed shows the audience that your flaws do not determine wether you’re a good or a bad person!! It shows you that your flaws do not determine who you are and that even the best people have flaws too because that’s natural!! So dismissing a character’s flaws with the argument that they’re “too good for flaws”, and assigning all the flaws to another character because they’re “bad like that” literally defeats the whole fucking purpose!!!

None of these characters are defined by their flaws! Will isn’t, El isn’t and Mike isn’t either!!!! All three of them were acting like total shitheads at the first day of spring break but none of their actions of that day define who they are as people!! And the world will only know peace once everyone finally gets that by saying a character was being a dick in a certain situation we do not mean to say that they’re overall a bad person!!

The people who feel such a need to dismiss every flaw their favorite character has should maybe question wether they actually like that character or just an idealized version of them!!

#thanks for the ask✨#I’m sorry for kinda drifting off into a whole other direction #mail to lenora hills #time for lenora’s opinion #byler #stranger things

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hawkinsschoolcounselor · 9 months

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Out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on the script *seeming to* confirm Mike’s monologue was genuine/helpful etc. as a byler I know it’s shit but I worry the duffers don’t.

I refuse to get my hopes up bc of how the actors talk + Vol.2, even though I adore pro-byler analyses, and stuff like this and Millie saying a few months ago that she (and presumably the other cast members) were told not to ‘spread rumours’ that Byler is ‘going to happen’ make me sadly, strongly suspect it won’t. I know you’re one of the more cautious fandom members, so I was wondering what your take is on the script, and on what Millie said.

It feels disingenuous to me, to be honest. It just didn't seem to match what we saw on screen, which showed El continuing to succumb (you can see the vines continuing to tighten) until she looked over at Max. That was what seemed to spur El on to fight, not anything Mike was saying. Mike's speech may have helped pull her out of the despair to some extent, but it was her determination to save Max that really did the trick.

I put very little onto what the actors say about the show. They are coached on how to respond to things. They wouldn't say anything indicative about Byler because it's still yet to be fully realized on-screen. Having her, of all people, be the one to say that was the strangest thing of all considering when has she ever spread rumors in that regard? When have any of them, really?

I think what we're seeing here is damage control, but that doesn't mean it's because Byler isn't happening. It's just as, if not more, likely that it's because it's meant to be a big final season arc that they don't want ruined.

I may be one of the more cautious members of the community here, but even I can see that Byler simply makes sense. If Mike and El are destined to end up together, then they have perhaps the worst written relationship I've ever seen. Their entire relationship is based on the same "what I'm supposed to do" bullshit that resulted in Mike's own mother being completely miserable.

Personally, I can't see the "fuck conformity, be who you are" Duffer Bros basically serving an entree of Mike and El together, despite their myriad problems (which are never resolved), along with a side of series-long slowburn gay rejection.

#stranger things 5 #byler

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will80sbyers · 2 years

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every time I rewatch that scene I feel like it's obvious that Vecna can manipulate time in some way from the show in episode 7 because the shot they use to me it makes it pretty clear... we have Nancy in Vecna's memories watching young Henry watching the clock, he closes his eyes and starts moving his eyes like he does when he uses his powers and the clock hands start to turn back...

at the same time Henry is saying to Eleven that he found out he could "make his own rules" and that he couldn't stand being constricted by the monotony of human time basically with that whole narcissistic speech

then the scene changes to him torturing a bunny and that's because they are showing that he found out about ALL of his powers

Time manipulation

Telekinesis

Making people see what he wants

Killing people and taking their strenght

to me that shot doesn't make any sense if it wasn't purposeful to show in a subtle way (not confirming it 100% yet but still hinting at it) that he can mess with time... people are saying that he's just moving them with telekinesis randomly... but that doesn't make any sense as a filmmaking perspective - that, how it's filmed, is showing something more

they also told us that Max's consciousness is in Vecna's mind because he tell us that he takes his victims with him, that all the children he killed are in his mind making him stronger

so maybe if Eleven gets to enter Vecna's mind again somehow she can move Max's consciousness back into her body... but to do that she needs to know where Vecna is before or she needs to use someone that is still connected to Vecna like Max was, and this will put them both at risk because they will both be in Vecna's mind... we know one person that has a bond with Vecna: William Byers

also as a byler I will connect this with byler obviously lol so my theory is that Mike will insist to go with them because he doesn't want them to do this alone and this shot of Will and Mike framed in the bubble is foreshadowing for this...

and the love confession will happen while they are in the mindspace, they probably get separated after they enter there and Vecna will play with them like he did with his other victims emotionally...

the problem for the villain is that Vecna can't actually kill you in the mindspace from a distance if you are not already wanting to die yourself! That's why he only killed people that were already suicidal...

(he could kill his family because he did that being present with his physical being and not only with his mind)

Will is suicidal and is the one more at risk but he will find a reason to fight (Mike will confess his love for him)

edit: the only thing I don't really like is that in this version of events Max must stay in a coma for two years... unless maybe someone takes her place before

meanwhile I feel that the adults and the teens will be working to destroy the monsters in Hawkins that will attack to protect Vecna and also to find his body and kill him (probably Dustin and Lucas will kill him irl)

#I'm back because I couldn't sleep and I have an addiction to the internet lmao #st5 theory #will byers #mike wheeler #byler

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imo-byler-endgame · 11 months

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Why i'll always ship Byler;

In spite of risking being told i'm extremely selfish for what i am about to say, i'm gonna say it.

The main reason i ship Byler, a reason that changed through the years because the story has been developing, is Will's unconditional and selfless love for Mike.

And it's not an 'i ship them because i feel bad for Will' it's an 'i ship Byler because Will is willing to break his own heart for Mike and also, Mike really deserves to be loved that fiercely'.

This is where i think people might think i'm being selfish, because, what about Mike's feelings? what about El's feelings? A couple is not just about one of the people in it feelings. And please believe me i know that, i've been there myself, being on a relationship just because the other person wanted me when i really didn't.

But the truth is, look at the three of them and tell me to my face the relationship and communication between El and Mike goes as deep as the one Mike and Will have. Please, tell me so and convince that that El will be as heartbroken as Will was in s4 while trying to fix Mike and El's relationship.

I've been thinking a lot about the fight at Rink-O-Mania only to understand that Will really wanted to see Mike, he even made the painting for him, he has been in love with Mike all the time he's been in Lenora, while his heart kept breaking everytime he didn't get a phonecall or a letter from Mike while El did.

Will still went all his way out with his painting and his happy face to the airport just to be met with awkwardness and a cold shoulder pat from the boy he's in love with.

There's no time nor way to bring a different love interest for Will at this point, he is just not gonna get over Mike, probably ever. Which means we'll never see him heal from a rejection if it was to happen in s5.

Are they really gonna end an *actually * uplifting show about friendship, unconditional love and being different being a good thing on such a sad note?

Could happen, but it would break my heart if it was the outcome of everything we've seen on Stranger Things.

It's obvious that two of the characters that suffered the most on this story are El and Will, there's no way around it. And you could ask, why should Will get the happy ending with the boy he loves but not El?

And to that i really want to ask you, can't she get a happy ending without Mike? Because so far she seems pretty miserable while being with him.

And that's super important to me.

El is being miserable when she is with Mike, while Will is being miserable when he feels he can't have Mike.

Sure, Mike is his own character and there''s a lot to say about him, so let's look at him for a minute. Which relationship looks more fullfilling for Mike at this point in the story? He is boy with a severe case of low self-esteem and feeling inadequate.

Look at him at the beginning of s4, while you see Dustin going to look for Lucas's replacement for the dnd session, he goes to the people he knows. He asks Steve, Max and ultimatively he comes up with the idea of asking Erica.

Mike is seen looking for his sister first, who says no and it makes sense, because even though she was nice years ago to the boys dressing up as an elf for a campaign, now he has to look outside, talking to people he probably doesn't even know, because since the Byers and El left Hawkins, it has not been the same, and yes, there's Lucas, Max and Dustin, but it's not the same for him. Mike lost something when the Byers left Hawkins, something he's gonna bring home by the end of s4.

I'm obviously talking about William.

He said he was gonna get Will home, and that's something he has always done. He was able to find El in Mirkwood, the one person who could help them find Will when he went missing. He was on the shed telling the most heart wrenching story of how important was the day he met Will for him and managed to help getting through Will's possession, hence finding a way to bring Will home again.

The one time Mike didn't manage to bring Will back; "Will, come on, you can't leave, it's raining" everything went downhill and it ended with the Byers and El leaving Hawkins.

But once again, when everything went to shit in Hawkins and they needed El and Will back, Mike was already in Lenora and it ended on all of them, once again, getting back home to Hawkins.

But what is home? Is it Hawkins? Is it Mike's basement?

As Mike himself says, he feels he lost Will and now Hawkins is not the same. Maybe Hawkins doesn't feel like home the way it did before. Maybe "home" is not the same without Will in it.

Or maybe that one phrase saying "home is where the heart is" is right and says a lot about Mike's feelings.

#Byler #why i ship byler #why i'll always ship Byler #it was suppose to be longer but i got interrupted and lost the train of thoughts #anyways Byler is Endgame

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mytragedyperson · 1 year

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Honestly kind of excited about stranger things season 5. I saw a post that said they were going back to S1 groups in S5, which is probably just kids, teens, adults, or I guess teens, young adults, older adults. I'm kind of lowkey excited to see how the other characters react to Argyle, if he's there which I'm pretty sure he will be.

I'm pretty sure Steve and El are going to die this season, Steve because they've wanted to kill him since S1 and El because Millie wants to die or wants more deaths in the show but also I feel like the Duffer brothers would definitely do something that ends the show as it began. We see a scene of the kids, now teenagers playing D&d before the show ends as it began, with will saying goodbye to Mike before going home, only now they're boyfriends. The show arguably began with the party and particularly will and Mike. It would be kind of beautiful if the show ended with them too.

Speaking of Will, kinda want a scene where he and Robin talk. Maybe Robin realises his feelings for Mike and talks to him about it. Robin adopts will and takes him under her wing.

Also I feel like, if Steve died that would be the thing that encourages the characters, all of them to fight back harder. Robin losing her best friend, the kids losing their older brother figure, all of them losing someone who's always been there, always been reliable, always put himself between them and danger, and if he dies tyring to protect one of them, maybe protecting Jonathan, that would not only encourage them to fight back, but also be a beautiful end to his character. And stancy don't get back together because that wouldn't really make sense for either of their characters or arcs. Also extra shootout to Dustin finding out he's dead or seeing him die and having a "not you, I already lost Eddie, I can't lose you too" moment.

Dustin doesn't die. I'm sorry if Dustin dies that will be too much for me personally.

I've seen people saying Mike might get vecna'd, makes a lot of sense. If baler is endgame, kinda want a scene where Mike is getting vecnad and El is trying to help him, it's not working, will tries and Mike manages to fight it and has a Max escaping Vecna moment. This would be pretty good evidence that it truly is requited and would show what the endgame is.

Will plays a big role in helping kill Vecna, maybe we find out why he was allowed to live. I know Vecna may have wanted a spy but why Will? When he was taken El wasn't known yet. When Vecna took Barb he killed her pretty soon after. Will survived, was allowed to live and later escape. He was used as a spy but after that the ficus shifted to El, stopping her. Either way El and Vecna probably will fight again and either El will kill him but destroy herself in the process by using her powers to much, or she'll lose and be killed.

Jancy will discuss their problems. Haven't decided if I think they'll break up or not but I do think they'll be endgame so even if they do break up canonically I'd imagine they'd get back together in the future.

Also possibly Mike and Will getting Murrayed in some way or Mike and el depending on which is endgame, preferably byler, because if they're not endgame it makes very little sense for him to be in live with Mike for 4 seasons

Also a scene where Mike either talks to El about the painting she apparently commissioned and El is like "I didn't commission a painting" or Mike rereads El's letters and realises the painting is the one El thought was for a girl Will liked. This could leads to Will and Mike having an argument about Will lying about the painting and Will blurting out that he likes Mike. However if this did happen, I think I'd be happier if Will was the one getting vecnaed and Mike trying to save him. Mike has another monologue but there's a clear difference between this monologue and the El monologue in that it seems more genuine and personal to their relationship, he references their meeting mentioned in S2, their fight in S3, how will showing him his painting in S4 gave him courage, how losing him in S1 felt like his world got ripped out from under him, maybe he mentions the jumping off the cliff to save Dustin scene in S1 in some way, maybe he apologises for forgetting his birthday, or maybe he didn't forget, maybe he had a present for him but never gave it to him because he was too busy arguing with him. Maybe he reminds him they're supposed to go crazy together, that it's up to them like always. Basically a big monologue mentioning events from last seasons and ends with Mike admitting he loves him too, he was just scared to admit it. Before this event him and El broke up because of the problems in their relationship that were never truly addressed or understood. And Mike saves will.

OK sorry it appears my predictions for S5 turned into a mini fanfiction so let's try and bring it back.

Idk what will happen with max but el will try to save her and, if she succeeds, lumax will be endgame.

Joyce or Hopper could die but I really hope they don't.

I feel like Robin could die but they wouldn't have much reason to kill her so probably won't, thankfully.

If el doesn't die and mileven is endgame, somehow, I feel like will could die, but this feels like it would be a less satisfying ending to me personally.

Obviously these are all just my opinions on what I think will happen. I could be wrong, they could just kill Mike or Nancy or Jonathan. Or they could decide to have Nancy and Robin get together. But these feel less likely and wouldn't make as much sense to me as the rest of what I've said

I hope we'll see more rockie but if we do it will probably be short scenes between all the action.

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onstoryladders · 2 years

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no but the more i think about it the more byler makes sense – even if we ignore all the subtext and symbolism and the parallels and all the stuff that has been said by the cast and crew or posted on social media

what really makes me believe in them is that the characters' individual journeys this season point in one direction, and that direction is byler

this is mostly a recap of things that have been already said and posted on the byler tag. i just wrote it to vent and let my thoughts out 💖

WILL

we know will likes mike. even more, will loves mike, because they've been best friends for years, and they've been to hell and back together, always by each other's side. this is NOT a silly crush, and it's been built up for four seasons: why would the writers have gone above and beyond with this storyline just to end it badly? it would be so underwhelming if will confessed and mike only went yeah cool but i only see you as a friend

MIKE

he's hiding something, that much is clear. he can't say i love you to el, not even after being confronted by her about it. not even after she starts crying in front of him. like wow, he's committed to the bit, isn't he? 🤨

now, people all over the internet have tried to find an explanation to his weird behavior. is he just too scared to tell her? is he just hopelessly awkward and bad at feelings? is it about his parents?

the thing is, while some of these explanations could make sense in real life, this is fiction: this means that every conflict has to be built in a certain way – a way that's coherent like real life could never be. you can't just introduce a conflict and add an explanation that feels like an afterthought. you need to establish this stuff, show it to the audience, make it flow seamlessly with the main plot so that it doesn't feel alien

a story is always about conflict, and when i talk about conflict i'm talking about change. no change, no story – it's as simple as that (there could be exceptions but that's a different matter)

now, what does mike's storyline look like this season? he goes to visit his girlfriend, he acts weird af towards his best friend, he fights with el and we find out that he can't tell her he loves her: that's the conflict he needs to solve – or at least what we can see of it, because we still don't know what it means exactly, or the reason behind it. so we're forced to look for clues ourselves, and there's absolutely nothing that points at an inner conflict caused by awkwardness or parents issues or any of those things

now, we got the desert conversation, and will saying that it's hard to open up to the people you care about because:

— what if they don't like the truth?

and what does mike do when he hears it? he nods, and that means that the words resonate with him, and that there's something he's afraid to tell eleven because she wouldn't like it. i don't know about you, but to me it doesn't feel like a love confession fits the description

so let's put byler to the side for a second: what does this mean for mike and eleven? it means that they're over, as simple as that. it means that mike doesn't love her – or well, loves her in a way that's different from the one she wants

and then we have the airport scene, and mike acting so weird and awkward around will, but then el gets taken away and they're closer than ever, and mike tells him that it's hawkins it's not the same without you, and they're smiling at each other and there's tender emotional music playing

so yeah that happened

EL

eleven's journey this season is one of self discovery and acceptance – not only because she needs to confront her past, but also because she has yet to accept herself without her powers. she's been powerful her whole life, she grew up in a lab and then escaped and then she became a superhero. now that she's normal, now that she can't do all the amazing stuff she could do before, she struggles to accept it

above all, she links her value as a person to her superpowers, and thinks that mike does the same. this is important because this misconception is at the core of their fight in vol1: she thinks mike doesn't love her anymore because of her newfound weakness

what does this mean for their relationship?

the thing is, she gets her powers back before mike sees her again. this is something that for me just cements the idea that they're over, because if mike tells her he loves her now, after she already got her powers back, it'll feel meaningless – like el's worst fears becoming true

what eleven needs to do is understand that she's more than her powers, that she doesn't need to save everyone in order to be loved and cared for, and that she doesn't need mike's love to be complete. she needs to be her own person – and this is a character arc that already started in season 3, although explored in a way lighter tone

MILEVEN

since the start, their relationship has been... rocky at best. they obviously care so much about one another, but they just don't work, and we're reminded of this at the beginning of season 4, when el writes to mike a letter full of lies

she's not comfortable enough in their relationship and doesn't trust mike's feelings enough to tell him the truth, so she makes up a new life, a new el, even though her boyfriend should be the first one to know about her struggles and comfort her

so what do we have here? on one side, mike can't seem to be able to tell her he loves her. on the other, el doesn't seem to trust him enough. there are no stable foundations for this love story, and most importantly: neither mike's nor eleven's storylines address these issues

now, this could change in vol2, i don't know, but still it's a bit weird how they handled this whole situation if the goal is to bring them together again as a couple, isn't it?

as i said, stories are about change, but this change needs to develop gradually through the story itself because they're one and the same

IN CONCLUSION

these storylines happen at the same time, a connection that's impossible to miss or ignore, and that's what keeps my hopes alive

and i really hope we're gonna celebrate together when vol2 drops because we deserve it 💖

#byler #mike wheeler #will byers #jane hopper #eleven stranger things

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sevensided · 2 years

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The thing about the 'leaker' is that it seems like she is a bit biased. I won't be surprised if the leaks aren't entirely accurate because of how she's perceiving everything based on her own preferences. For example, she has some pretty strong opinions about Stancy and ships Jancy. She said that Jancy have some nice scenes in the last two eps and that everything ends well for them and said they're obviously endgame. That might be true (I don't even ship Stancy lol) but when people commented about the hints about Stancy she just dismissed it saying that Steve is stink and Stancy are a bad ship 😅 she said that as soon as Jonathan arrives its like Steve who and that the storyline is dropped bc Jonathan's clearly the one for her etc? But to me it will be a bit more complex than that, even though I don't even ship Steve and Nancy lol. It doesn't make sense for the writers to just drop a storyline, it would need to be addressed. Same with Mike and Will and El. She ships Mike and Eleven and was like 'I've been telling you they won't be canon' and idk it's very clear she's not impartial at all!

Thank you for this insight! I think a good way to determine whether something is legitimate or not is how shallow it is. Everything in Vol. 1 has been proved to be more complicated than the theories - even way back when I said that Peter/001/Vecna/Creel kid were the same person, that was literally only on a hunch and it turned out to be far more complex than I'd even considered. That's normal, though, because we are only given snippets without any context and it's only when the show is actually released that you can see the wood for the trees.

I would also say - as a general statement - that anyone who is a diehard shipper won't be impartial. Yes, even me! Because there's another agenda there; we're looking for something. It's a case of getting too close that you can't see beyond the narrow scope of your interest. Perhaps it's a good reminder for all of us to step back a little, to put it into context.

The trouble is, is that once you do that you realise even more that Byler will happen, so... not that helpful (!) ;)

#answered #byler

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beepboop358 · 2 years

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As much as I love Byler theories, I'm really not sure about this one. First, it doesn't say that Mike loves El because this is a video about El. We're going to have to wait if Mike gets a video. I also think we're looking way too much into things, this is just something an intern probably made to remind us of where we left things with El in S3, I don't think we should be looking for hints here. They also are saying that El loves Mike, if they wanted to imply she didn't they would've said "she thinks she l-words Mike" or "she told Mike she l-words him". Sorry I just think we're celebrating for nothing here.

hey anon!

I don't really think we are looking too much into things, but that's just my interpretation of it. What I mean about how we aren't looking into it too much is just that, all that 'anti-m!leven, mike is gay' subtext is really there in those scenes they picked those scenes for the section about El loving Mike... I don't think that's an accident at all. The subtext is there, so we can interpret it. I obviously don't know who made the video, but generally, interns don't make decisions, you just do what you are told LOL, as really any low level position at any company. So even if an intern did edit this video together, they are most likely not the ones who chose or signed off on the clips that were picked ...Somebody higher up did. All these little videos we've been getting are st4 promo. They are going to hint to things, and we should expect to find clues or hints in some of them, and I think this is one of those promos with clues.

Also, El liking Mike doesn't conflict with byler happening, so that little line about her "l-wording him", doesn't rule out byler at all. I don't see how this is any different from the anti-byler arguments that just because Will likes Mike, doesn't mean mileven will break up. Just because El likes Mike, doesn't mean mileven will never end, and that byler can't happen. Her entire perception of romantic love comes from soap operas, she has little real world experience and social understanding, because of her childhood, and Mike was the first person ever to show her compassion and just treat her like a real person rather than an object, so of course she feels strongly about him, it wouldn't make any sense for her not too. I personally (and this is just my opinion) think El's more infatuated with the idea of love and Mike rather than being genuinely romantically in love with him, and I think her reaction to their breakup supports that. I do believe she loves him platonically. But again, just my opinions.

thanks for the ask! I hope you're doing well! xx

#byler #st4 #stranger things 4 #stranger things #stranger things season 4 #st4 theory #byeler #mike wheeler is gay #will byers is gay

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will80sbyers · 11 months

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One of the things that made me stop reading analyses in the Byler fandom is how people just tend to pick 'parallels' that they like while ignoring or dismissing other parallels that do not suit their takes. Especially the most/more obvious parallels that are put on the show. For example Byler being paralleled to other romantic ships show that byler is also romantic but apparently Mlvn being paralleled to Byler and other romantic ships don't count as a romantic parallel. Mike being paralleled to Vickie apparently isn't a parallel because it doesnt support the intended *parallel meaning*. They literally framed Vickie and Mike in the same way and gave them same lines while paralleling Vickie's ex and El, and Will/Robin.

People will analyze all Byler scenes back and forth to show how it's romantic meanwhile completely ignoring Mlvn's romantic moments on the show. Even when Byler itself literally parallels Mlvn..... And it happens all the time not just with parallels but with other stuff like framing/editing or set design clues.

And these are not even ''minuscule details'' or ''subext'' stuff that you have to analyse. They are like the most obvious parallels that the show put.

Dont get me wrong, i like finding clues and reading analyses but they just kinda feel extremely... disingenuous sometimes when you just pick stuff that you like while ignoring other stuff just bc it doesnt support your argument.

Yeah, I get why you feel like this!!

I don't understand the point of ignoring those parallels too, the existence of byler-minteven parallels is part of why I can't think Matrioska is not romantic, that and like also the framing of their scenes where they are framed with a romantic meaning very very often, especially in the first seasons but also in season 4 they have some moments framed as romantic too!

I didn't stop reading the theories because of that though, I hear people out many times even if I don't personally agree and I like seeing all the little details that maybe could be intentional... But I do stop reading the theories in the posts when they are phrased in a way that sounds pretentious to me or seems like they are saying that if you don't think that then you are stupid, but even in that case I just ignore it as long as there is no biphobic idea involved I'm fine with people ignoring what they want to ignore in the show... I just don't care xD

I think it's also a thing about a different interpretation of stuff, I tend to not be able to ignore the big picture of what I see all together, so stuff like the "boys only" thing or the drawing in El's room etc doesn't seem like a good enough reason to say Mike is gay to me I see it as sort of general queer coding for Mike like saying "from now on for you it's only one boy aka Will"

But I also see him as acting genuine with El and also liking kissing her a lot in s3 and other people watch that and are convinced he hates it because he moves her hands...so I just think it's all about the subject that is watching for some things and it can never be super objective because of that unless you are literally the writers

But you know, I still think they all should be allowed to ignore what they want tbh even if I think taking that into consideration gives the best fair judgement on the show if you try to be the most objective possible by looking at everything... but like I'm not here to police people about what they should talk about in the tag so I just skip it and continue my day lol I get annoyed if the arguments used are clearly born from biphobia, for the rest I don't care much tbh

in the end it's not that important if he's gay or bi or just queer the important thing is that he's happy and kissing Will Byers next season

But I definitely still think he's a messy bisexual until they confirm he's not, because that's what makes sense to me for now 🌈

#byler #will byers #mike wheeler #stranger things #el hopper byers #ask #bi mike wheeler

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beepboop358 · 3 years

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I’m actually really happy but also really sad about what happened today ( the teaser and episode titles ) because it looks sooo cool but summer release date makes absolutely no sense ( cause the season takes place in March ) besides that I also kinda lost hope in byler being endgame cause the official stranger things accounts are hyping mileven up so much . What do you think about all the stuff we got today ? :) <3

Hi anon! Hope your well!

I'm really excited about what we got today too! And superrrr bummed about the summer release date AGH that means 3 full years between seasons...wow 😮

I'm hoping that they aren't just messing with us and making us wait, and that there is actually CGI/editing that needs to be done that can't be finished before summer for whatever reason, and that's why it will be released so late :(

Don't lose hope in byler being endgame my friend!! I have tons of posts on my blog in my byler things section that can reassure you and there are so many great byler evidence posts out there on other's blogs too!

I briefly went through the ST twitter account to see what mileven study they are re-tweeting since another anon actually mentioned it too.

If anything these tweets call out Mileven more than hype them up!

It isn't so much hyping up as just, acknowledging mileven has existed. And Byler is going to be a huge turning point in the show, so I'm not surprised they are re-tweeting some mileven things, it's not like they can ignore mileven has ever happened, because it did, and Mike and El do care for each other, they just aren't romantically in love with each other. They are still friends and love each other platonically!

Here's some examples of the tweets:

they’re messing with us lol

El doesn't actually say I love you to Mike in the letter. And besides the whole open closet and "this way" sign pointing to it, and the wife beater top, I mean C'mon... LOL

And this tweet:

Check out @kaypeace21's post here about the strawberry shirt El is wearing and how it hints to mileven not being endgame, and the wife beater top again in this pic ;) aha... This tweet itself is just anti-mileven and the person doesn't even realize it LOL

Mike's fake heterosexual shirt and Eleven's strawberry shirt (which 'strawberry is shit' - from Kaypeace21's food analysis) AHAHA

Also this one:

just basically acknowledging Mileven has existed and they were younger once, not really pro-mileven

And these 2:

I mean... the trailer is largely Eleven based and these are direct parallels to other seasons that are INTENTIONAl.

El and Mike are close, he was the first person to treat her like a human being and not like a test subject, of course she's going to call/write to him, she's very attached to him.

And Mike's ghostbusters costume while he talks to El in s2, the wife beater/open closet while he reads El's letter are all queer-coding...

Byler is very much alive and thriving here and if anything these tweets actually call out Mileven more than hype them up if we take the time to understand them!

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