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generalsmemories · 8 months

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i am kindly asking you to please elaborate your discussion about dan heng's past bcos it's really interesting

Oh bestie buckle up then-

Dan Heng's past is very complicated. If we only go from the character stories from Dan Heng's character screen we get to know that he was on the run since as long as he can remember - and that he was essentially born in prison - That is the past that Dan Heng REMEMBERS.

But if we want to dig deeper, we go to inner turmoils and dipping down the very essence of Vidyadhara's - which is the route I'm going here.

Here's an overview that I'm going to go explain about Dan Heng's character as a whole:

An explanation of the short animation: "Ichor of Two Dragons" which can further explain the last point below:

Dan Feng and how Dan Heng is a continuation of Dan Feng. As in: Dan Feng is Dan Heng's past, but Dan Heng is Dan Feng's future.

literally settle down and grab some water while you read through i'm pretty darn sure this is going to be a long one although i'll try to just say the main points - if there are anything within this post that confuses you do ask me and i'll elaborate further!

A few things you should know before continuing: I will most likely mention leaks and I will talk about religion (buddhism in particular) So this is in no way spoiler free so read with own caution, thank u <3

I hope we can all agree on the fact that Dan Heng is a chinese character with heavy buddhist themes. As such I do want you to read through this post with that thought at the back of your mind (speaking from a buddhist myself, the way how hoyoverse incorporated the various aspects of it with the Vidyadhara and to that extent, Dan Heng is very beautiful)

As such, the saying that: "Dan Heng and Dan Feng are the exact same person." and "Dan Heng and Dan Feng are two completely different people," are takes that misses the point of his entire story and thus also downgrades his final resolution as well.

That will be all from what I personally want you do to, enjoy the rest of this HAHA

1. Explanation of the animated short: "Ichor of Two Dragons"

The animation starts off with the High Cloud Quintet drinking together, this is inherently Dan Feng's memory re-experienced by Dan Heng. This memory is something he actually accepts without complaint, even smiling like he's personally there experiencing it.

Conflict however soon breaks out between Dan Heng and Dan Feng - which marks the start of Dan Heng's internal conflict - thus all of his fears, traums and doubts resurface in the form of his past self.

NOTE HOWEVER: that the Dan Feng portrayed throughout this entire animation isn't actually Dan Feng. It is instead a reflection of Dan Heng's own thoughts and beliefs that causes him inner turmoil.

It's not meant to be interpreted as a literal battle against Dan Heng and Dan Feng.

Everything that "Dan Feng" says up till the point where they clash are Dan Heng's own thoughts and what he's been taught to believe since his rebirth in the Shackling Prison - where he was subjected to indoctrination about Dan Feng, his past life's sin and the punishment he must bear.

Which also in hindsight does tell a LOT about how Dan Heng himself perceives Dan Feng: An arrogant and unfeeling person - and thus is so different from himself. Dan Feng is to Dan Heng the very reason everything bad has happened to him in his life, and as a result fiercely wants to detach himself from him.

It's understandable really, when you were taught that your very existence is a sin in itself because of the narrative surrounding Dan Feng is that of a villain - and then your very own identity feels threatened because it's associated with said "vilain."

This line in particular tells a lot about how Dan Heng is very much aware that he can't keep running. It's a reflection of the harsh truth that Dan Heng himself is aware of. Joining the express while not having a clear aim or destination of his own is never a permament solution for his desire to escape the past.

Speaking of said clash, a direct fight doesn't happen before Dan Heng asserts the fact he is not Dan Feng.

This is the obvious instance that Dan Heng rejects an integral part of himself, and it's the very same rejection to said identity that generates both chaos, conflict and inner turmoil that takes the form of a fight. A fight that goes on until Dan Heng eventually gets submerged by Dan Feng's waters and the dragon after he's told he has nowhere to run.

"Nowhere to run" is mentioned a lot throughout Dan Heng's story. The saying itself is a reference to Dan Heng's karma that he refuses to confront the consequences of. Karma in this instant is something that transcends the cycle of rebirth (samsara) and in thus reflected in the line of "a past life's sin must be repaid in this one"

NOW. A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T LIKE THE LAST SENTENCE. CAUSE HE'S A NEW PERSON, WHY MUST HE REPAY HIS PAST INCARNATIONS' SIN IF HE HIMSELF DIDN'T DO IT?

Let me tell you! From the perspective of a buddhist!

In modern times, the usage of the word karma has really wilted down to saying that "Karma will come back to bite your ass" etc. In a way saying that if you don't try to fix a fuck up that you did recently, you would get consequences for it later DOWN THE ROAD.

Meanwhile, in buddhist tradition, karma refers to actions driven by intention. Samsara and karma are so intregrated that the karmic intentions and accumulations of the actions you've done in one life wil be the determining factor in what kind of rebirth you will have in the next life.

Karma will come to bite you in the ass yes, but especially in your next lifetime if you continue doing actions with ill intent - going as far to being the one determining factor if you're gonna live a peaceful, nice life or be reborn as a bug.

Why should that matter, you ask?

You remember Blade telling Dan Heng that he has NEVER experienced death? Because it is indeed true. The Vidyadhara molts themeslves to essentially fix their bodies and enter a new rebirth cycle - as such, avoiding death.

It's a different body, but the soul - their essence is still the same.

I'll come back more to this later, but for now let's continue explaining the animation.

It's ONLY when Dan Heng asserts the fact that Dan Feng is right that a change happpens. In the english translation given he says: "You're right. You are my past, but you won't follow me into my future!" it's only when he accepts that fact that he's able to stop being suffocated by the water - even embracing the same thing that tried to drown him and using it as his own power, able to manipulate it and even turn the dragon back on its first caster.

Now, the most vital part (and also in my opinion, the most beautiful one) is the fact that the fight doesn't end with Dan Heng striking down Dan Feng.

It ends with Dan Heng passing by Dan Feng and dispersing the dragon into rain instead. It ends with Dan Heng accepting that past. Accepting Dan Feng as a part of himself.

Now, a thing I realized with the english translation is that it goes a different way than what both the chinese voice and jp dub had said. I listen to the JP dub, and I do have better listening comprehension to the spoken language than written. While the english version goes with the: "You are my past, but you won't follow me into my future!"

Both the chinese version and jp version says something more akin to: "You are my past, but you are by no means my future!" It's slightly the same, but this final resolution said in that way instead holds a lot more weight and nuance.

The fight starts with Dan Heng rejecting Dan Feng, but ends with the opposite. Dan Heng is accepting that yes, he was once Dan Feng - but he's not going to let that define him entirely as a person or let that define his future entirely.

Another difference in translation that english has compared to the jp dub that I noticed (can't speak for chinese voice here) is the ending with Welt, March and the trailblazer appearance.

While ENG Welt asks if Dan Heng is alright. The JP version rather asks: "Did you remember something?"

In ENG, Dan Heng responds the question with: "Mm. Just reminiscing," in JP, he answers something along the lines of: "Something from long ago."

(i would like to also point out that march noticed him smiling and wasn't just like: "GIVE ME A SMILE!" out of nowhere to ease him, but more like: "Oh you're smiling! How rare, hey do it one more time!") ( ´ ▽ ` ).｡ｏ♡ oh my dear express family.

In a way, phrasing a memory from your past self in that way just holds a lot more weight with Dan Heng's acceptance of his past, by referring to Dan Feng's memories as memories from long ago rather than labeling it as something separate.

In conclusion, the animated short is only the start of Dan Heng's story (as I very much hoped it would be) and not a conclusion. With this animation, it has established Dan Heng's goal as a character and sets the stage for the future of his character (AND THUS MORE DEVELOPMENT YEEHAW!) It's a great starting point for Dan Heng to find a way to reconcile the past and the present to finally be able to face his future.

2. Dan Feng and how Dan Heng is a continuation of Dan Feng. As in: Dan Feng is Dan Heng's past, but Dan Heng is Dan Feng's future.

Now, here is where some leaks actually comes in (Moreso one leak of Jingliu's voicelines-)

Remember how I mentioned earlier that we would come back to the essence of the soul and how Vidyadhara have different bodies after every rebirth, but the same soul. Yeah, WE ARE BACK TO THAT AGAIN TOO!

The clash between Dan Feng and Dan Heng in the short animation wsa an emotional one, it was a clash between Dan Heng and his inner turmoil that essentially ended with no true winner. Rather it showed Dan Heng's slow acceptrance with coming in terms with his own past and accepting continous nature of his identity.

Because if you look at it this way with the knowledge that the same Vidyadhara will forever bear the same soul - Dan Heng would be considered the cumulative result of all his past lives and his current one.

There is a continuity of identity as it undergoes the cycle of rebirth, where each new incarnation is an augmentation of the previous one. As such, in the world of Star Rail, identity is not fixed, but fluid. It changes, but it's still the same soul from the very first one.

The new identity changes and evolves with each incarnation, with information by the experiences of the previous one. Most Vidyadhara have belongings that their previous incarnation have left behind, notes left behind them - and the few I've met in the open world of Star Rail do also come to love whatever their previous incarnation loved.

And as mentioned in an older post (that i'm way too lazy to dig up at this point lmfao) A newborn Vidyadhara usually gets pardoned the sins of their past life - but Dan Heng is a special case because of the emphasis of a FLAWED rebirth - as such he more than anyone have gotten the treatment of a life's past sins must be repaid in this one because his very essence and soul is closer to a continuity of his past one than other Vidyadhara.

Again, I desperately want you all to view this through the lens of a buddhist and understand that Dan Heng is written from an asian perspective. The complexity of karma and samsara in buddhism is the fact that it's flexible, fluid and a dynamic process - There is no set linear relationship between an action done and its result. The effect of the deed is not solely determined by the deed itself as well - but rather by the nature of the person who commited the deed and by the circumstances in which it is committed.

Because Karma in itself is not a judgement imposed by some God, we don't believe in a god after all. It is instead the results of a natural process, a result of certain experiences in life which were the results of previous actions. Unjust behaviour can lead to unfavorable circumstances which makes it easier for the person to commit more unjust behaviour, but again. You're free to commit more unjust behaviour, but you're also free to not do so.

Which means that the journey of the soul isn't linear by all means, it's cyclical with each end of one being the beginning of the next cycle: The result of what happened in one life becomes the starting point for the next life.

Dan Heng's major character points is the struggle of identity. And the character stories from his IL form shows the evident struggle with identity again - Mind you, these character stories for Dan Heng: Imbibitor Lunae are just a recollection of important point in Dan Feng's life being dreamt about when he was forced through rebirth)

Jingliu's leaked voiceline about Dan Feng gives us the confirmation that to become the High Elder means losing your own identity to a certain degree - even to the point that your very physical appearance morphs to resemble the Primordial Imbibitor Lunae (the very first one)

I want to preface as to where we stand as of right now, the current perception of Dan Feng is of an unfeeling, aloof and arrogant person. Someone who caused suffering to his next reincarnation - But by doing Dan Heng's companion quest alone it raises so many arguments that's so far from the truth. (HECK EVEN BAILU MANAGES TO SEE THAT DAN FENG COULD'VE BEEN A GENTLE PERSON)

Because as much as the fandom want Dan Heng to be separated from Dan Feng because he's his own person, it wouldn't be wrong to assume that Dan Feng yearned freedom too, no?

What if Dan Feng also yearned for freedoom amongst the stars, maybe the reason why Dan Feng severed the High Elder succession like he did - maybe he wanted his future selves to not be bound by the same shackles like he was? It wouldn't be farfetched, right?

Dan Feng is indeed Dan Heng's past. His memories, experiences, abilities, powers and EVEN PERSONAL items were once Dan Feng's. It is now Dan Heng's, but again. Dan Heng was once Dan Feng too.

As such, Dan Heng is Dan Feng's future - a future where he's able to attain the freedom he wanted.

ANYWAYS. I FRIED MY BRAIN CAUSE I WROTE 80% OF THIS IN ONE SETTING, SOME THINGS PROBABLY DOES'T MAKE SENSE AT ALL BUT YEAH! DO ASK IN THE ASKBOX AS I'VE SAID BEFORE. IF YA READ THIS FAR AND STILL RETAIN YOUR BRAINCELLS THAN WOW

I APPLAUD YOU HAHA

#narus' message corner #anon #this took more time than it should've because i procastinated im so sorry anon #but i hope ya'll enjoy #again next few updates can prove me wrong but like #from reading and rewatching the short animation and the other animation numerous times #i just lean more into this more than anything #i hope it wasn't too personalized either #i really try to not be subjective in these sort of analysises after all HAHA #dan heng #honkai star rail

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obey-me-disaster · 1 year

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Belphegor's relationship with MC before lesson 16

!! THIS WILL CONTAIN SPOILERS FROM SEASON 1 AND THE FOLLOWING DEVILGRAMS: "Hatred", "Hide and Seek" and "Say his name". !!

This is just a rant about how I see their relationship developed. This is only about what the story shows.

After MC's first meeting with Belphie all the way in lesson 4-12, the game doesn't make it too clear how often they meet or if they even talk about something other than freeing him through the main story, up until lesson 12-19 where he shows up. And even then, they are too busy with arguing and then getting Belphie out of trouble until lesson 16 where he finally kills MC.

The only times they do meet in the main story/hard mode story are in lessons 4-12, where Belphegor lies about who he is, 5-7 where MC confronts him about lying and 5-10 where MC agrees to help him.

This leads to the questions:

1) "Why did MC help him? What did they have to gain from this?"

2) "How come Belphegor warm up to them so fast? Did he see them just as Lilith? Where does his sudden attachement come from."

For the question on nr 1) it can be argued that MC does either for Beel's or Lucifer's sake just from observing the main story.

The only places we clearly see they comunicate outside of planning how to set him free is through the SSR 'Hatred' and the UR 'Hide and Seek' from chapter A.

At the begging of the "Hatred" SSR we can clearly see that MC is telling him about their day at school and how Belphegor laments about the fact the he almost wishes he could go to school, but can't due to being locked in the attic. The Devilgram then goes to show more about how he used to love Lucifer in the past but now can't help but hate him.

While the devilgram doesn't go more into depth about Belphie and MC's meeting, the fact that they meet up whenever MC can sneak into the attic to keep Belphie up with whatever is happening outside goes to show that they did form some sort of relationship.

While this can be easily taken a Belphegor just manipulating MC in order to trust him more, it goes to show that MC did grow some kind of attachement to him, taking time out of their day and risking getting caught by Lucifer just to check on him. This adds to their motivation on freeing the seventh born because they care about him.

Now you may wonder "Ok, so MC has some motive to set Belphegor free related to their relationship with him. But what about his relationship with them? Did he see them just as a tool the whole time?"

That's where the URs "Hide and Seek" and "Say his name" come into play, both being also from chapter A.

In the "Hide and Seek" devilgram Belphegor is having a nightmare about how Lilith is dead and he starts crying because of it when MC finds him.

At first he tries to deny it but he is too emotionally vulnerable/weak to keep up appearances, let alone manipulate MC in this scenario and asks them to stay with him.

He seeks some sort of comfort from MC in his vulnerable moments, which shows that he did warm up to them just a little bit.

Of course there may still be some doubts about "Is that enough to really make him fall for them? He still sees them just as a way to get out and get his revenge." While it's true that his goal didn't simply change just becase of a moment of weakness, it goes to show that he did ended up seeing them as someone that can give him comfort.

And why is that so important? Because it was something only Beelzebub, one of the persons he cares about the most, used to do.

In the "Say his name" devilgram, it's heavily implied that Belphegor trapped both MC and Beelzebub in a nightmare just to check if Beel still remembers him, if his brothers hasn't left him behind.

This can easily go into his fear of being left alone, shown in season 3 and in how frustrated he was when he thought everyone was forgetting about Lilith due to agreeing with the exchange program.

During that story, Beelzebub drops this piece of information about Belphegor:

There was NO ONE but MC to visit him and to keep him company.(Lucifer doesn't count for obvious reasons).

MC is there to keep him company and to be there for him when he is scared and the fact that he lets them when he could easily tell them to leave shows that he grew some attachement to them, even tho it was overshadowed by his want for revenge.

"Ok, so he grew attached to MC for good reasons, why did he have a 180° when he found out that they are Lilith's descendent?" I will admit that the game was rushed at the end and when it came to his redemption arc, but it still made sure to show that Belphegor didn't see MC as Lilith 2.0

1) He tells MC that he loves them for who they are, their connection to Lilith not being taken into account.

2) When the reveal was made, not only did he found out that his reasons for hating humans were not valid, but he also saw MC as proof that Lilith lived a happy life.

This human, who not only freed him and reunited him with his family but was also there for him in some really vulnerable moments, was the proof that his sister lived a happy life as a human. At that point he had no reasons to hate humans any longer.

The game was too rushed when it came to his redemption arc, but his feelings for MC were not out of nowhere. Unfortunately this info is hidden in devilgrams and not the main story/hard mode story. At least, all of these devilgrama are from chapter A and not some time limited event.

Credit to Nee-san on youtube for the 'Hide and Seek' screenshots....I still don't have that card :')

#obey me #obey me shall we date #obey me x mc #obey me belphegor #obey me belphie #obey me analysis #this is me procastinating on some headcanons tbh #but it's also a thing I have been wanting to write for a while #FEEL FREE TO ADD MORE TO THIS #i would love to hear other people's opinions on this whole thing #especially that I may be biased..

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c0smiccom3t · 7 months

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CRINGETOBER DAY 1 - HETEROCHROMIA

// BRIGHT COLORS

[Guess who's back-ack-ack back again-gain-gain Clax is back-ack-ack TELL A FRIEND-END-END]

Didn't know who to draw for day 1 since... well.... I dont recall anybody with heterochromia. But then i remembered Clax can change evils eye color and so.... HERE IT IS!

I love cringetober lol :D

#cringetober #cringetober 2023 #this is gonna be fun #art #ocs #original characters #clax oh how i missed you...#NOW. I THINK ITS TIME I REDESIGN A PUMPKIN GUY. IM ON A ROLL TODAY BEFORE I GO BACK TO SCHOOL TOMORROW :D #yes im doing more cringetober tomorrow if theres no homework!!#this is gonna help me distract from procastination for a while :D

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elina-sakura · 2 months

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I’m just going say it although the book of death/Shinigami’s powers is cool also the big idea of the gameplay;in a way is kinda useless mostly on the fact the culprit dies,i mean HOW ARE YOU GONNA GET A CLEAR TRUTH WITHOUT A CLEAR CONFESSION!!!,also it just made it worse now that there now a person mysteriously dies out of nowhere,but they managed to put it in storyline sooooooo

Yeah something to think about

I think maybe it has to do with since Shinigami is the God of Death, her power is going to have a connection over on death. But you bring up a good point that it isn’t exactly useful considering it makes exposing the criminals harder.

Until I remember in Chapter 0 after the first Mystery Labyrinth from a YouTube gameplay I watched, where Shinigami comments how Yuma is now free since the culprit is dead, which the YouTuber comments that wasn’t going to work because Zilch was meant to be dead from the start and they only ended up reaffirming that narrative the Peacekeepers were painting to begin with. And I was thinking to myself, ‘didn’t they already figured out that the Peacekeepers were in on the plan in the Mystery Labyrinth? So why did she think the Peacekeepers would let him go if they were planning to frame him anyway?’ And that led me to think really hard about this.

We know Shinigami has the flaws of lacking empathy and not understanding humans at times, since she is an immortal god. I think in her mind, since the culprit is gone, there would be no reason for the Peacekeepers to keep framing him. Plus, again thinking into Shinigami’s mind, I think she believed since the culprit was a murderer would mean they would probably kill more people in the future, so the real goal was to stop a growing threat from claiming more victims like before.

And the killing thing? I think it’s a way to deal the justice in the holder’s own hands, to off the culprits so they don’t keep harming people from the mysteries they made, or claiming anymore victims from their deeds. In Chapter 1, one of the culprit was a serial killer, who would have gone off to kill more people. And the other culprit could have technically become a serial killer himself since he admired the Nail Man so much. Plus, an innocent man was going to get framed and executed for the Nail Man’s crimes to keep up appearances, and seeing how the Priest was going along with the lie, basically implied he was okay letting an actual, innocent man die in his place. Then in Chapter 2, Kurumi gets framed for the crime, and since execution seems to be a thing, she could have been executed herself, all so the Peacekeepers can keep their lies and appearance in place.

Plus, we have seen that the Peacekeepers don’t necessarily care about justice unless it serves them (or the higher-ups like Yomi in this case). They are willing to cover up the mysteries to convenient themselves and get what they want. And considering they are the police force, therefore the handlers of justice in Kanai Ward, they are the only ones in power that can lock away the criminals in hand and bring justice. But because they are so corrupt and self-indulgent, they are more willing to let criminals go or turn a blind eye or fail to solve the case thoroughly. So the Book of Death is the only way to ensure not only are the criminals are properly dealt with, but also cut away the Mystery Labyrinths as well. Since Shinigami has noted that if the Mystery Labyrinth grew and remain, they would influence other people into becoming murderers or criminals that would create more Mystery Labyrinths as well. As it was theorized by Yakool-Foolio that Kanai Ward’s Ultimate Secret’s own Mystery Labyrinth is what most likely led to the city becoming more crime-filled and creating their own Mystery Labyrinths as well.

It’s also important to note that there are other corrupt officials out in the world like the Unified Government who wants to keep their own secrets hidden away to keep up appearances. So it wouldn’t be far-fetched if there were other corrupt forces like the Unified Government and the Peacekeepers who would keep things secrets for their own benefits. Plus, we learned in chapter five that Number One of the World Detective Organization that he is actually in charge of issuing criminals to be sent to the death penalties, as noted here by Shiut, so I think executions and death penalties are uncommon in the Master Detective Archives world. So it wouldn’t be such a big deal for criminals to just die, even if it is inhumane and cruel.

In conclusion, I think the Book of Death is really a tool used in order to bring about the end of the criminals that threatens peace for everybody and could potentially hurt people (people getting framed, the killers killing future victims, exploiting people, etc). Since there is the chance of corrupt police forces not willing to indulge justice as they should and will let the mysteries remain and therefore the criminals free, the Book of Death is a mean to make sure the criminals and mysteries are gone. It’s a morally grey story where it may not be morally right, but it is not morally wrong either with the circumstances at hand. I think that’s what the Book of Death’s intention are, and why Shinigami thinks the way she thinks.

#master detective archives: rain code #master detective archives spoilers #shinigami rain code #rain code #this took a long time to answer as wel (thanks to procastination)#but the wait was probably for the best because my opinion changed a lot #especially thanks to rewatching one of the YouTuber’s gameplay #especially in chapter 0 #rain code analysis #rain code theory #I mean I think these tags counts #rain code spoilers #master detective archives: rain code spoilers #whoo this turned into a huge essay I did not expect #hopefully I made sense and made a good argument #if I missed anything feel free to continue the discussion #really glad I put it off to have a more critical thinking with this question #and may I just say I love morally grey storylines and characters #it’s just so fascinating and makes characters like Yuma and Shinigami so interesting #Elina Sakura answers

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