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harukapologist · 6 months

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rambling about Haruka

As an ND person I just hate how Haruka's character is either completely infantilized or reduced to a selfish, evil murderer, when, to me, he is so much more than that.

Especially the latter; I hate when any MILGRAM character is called evil because what's the point of MILGRAM, then? They're all morally grey! That's how they test us. But Haruka in particular because I feel like it comes from a place of ableism, intentional or not.

I'm not sure if I should put TWs, but well I talk about ableism, murder (obviously lol), childhood trauma and well... it's Haruka

Haruka's outburst in the VD and his implication of killing animals (I know it's basically canon but erm... i can explain why I think it's an implication later) (i just finished writing the post and actually i explained why at the bottom of the post but its not a full explanation so lol) are the reasons I see people calling him either evil or childlike, and while I do think that Haruka is stuck in a childlike state in some aspects, this is emotional dysregulation of an ND and/or traumatized person, to me.

The uglier sides of being ND/traumatized, the ones that get heavily stigmatized and seen as intentional or evil; I think this was a display of one of them. And I really wish to see more people focusing on Haruka's disability in the ways it can affect his communication and day-to-day life skills more than "oh, poor baby, he has a disability that makes him feel unwanted" without actually understanding the details of the disability and, well, the reason why it is a disability.

Like, the emotional dysregulation that comes with being autistic, which is my headcanon for him. The hyperempathy and literal thinking that might make him harder to communicate with, and get people frustrated with him more often.

That and being severely neglected; I think neglect is one of the lesser discussed forms of childhood trauma and the fact that Haruka was shown to be neglected as well as abuse really means a lot to me, because I think some people don't quite understand just how much neglect and isolation fucks you up.

All those factors combined are a recipe for an unstable, impulsive, clingy shell of a human, and him getting called evil for that really saddens me. It's important to remember that these MVs are extracted from the prisoners' own memories and thoughts. It comes from their perception of their surroundings, their murders, and their own selves. The manic look that Haruka has on his face for a lot of AKAA, for example. The makeshift shirt he's wearing, as if he's desperately trying to sew himself together into a normal person, the exhausted, frustrated look when he picks up the necklace, it's important to remember that this is how he sees himself. A monster who has lost control of himself. The line "I'll keep killing to be your good boy" was a shock, but the way he meekly apologized to Es at the end of his VD, I really think that shows that he feels guilty, that he wants to convince himself more than anyone that he was a good person, that he was really trying to be one despite how his unlucky life frustrated him to his breaking point.

As for his infantilization, it has already been addressed by many thoughtful members of the fandom and I'm grateful to see that, but I also want to say it myself since god knows I hate being patronized.

It feels very ableist saying he's just "someone stuck in a childlike mindset/age regressor" Yes, and how does age regression as a coping mechanism develop? Usually through prior trauma that makes you "stuck" at said age, and that can present differently. It can be longing and yearning for a simpler time, for an actual happy childhood, or having flashbacks to a traumatic event that happened at a certain age; it is not uncommon for trauma survivors to be "frozen" at the age their trauma took place.

I think both of these are the case for Haruka. Frozen at that moment, but trying to reduce himself to nothing but a little, unaware child to avoid reliving it again, relishing in the innocence and purity of his good younger times (emphasis on purity--Haruka's murder was by strangulation, yet there's a shot in AKAA where he's covered in blood. I know it's after he killed the animals, but he's in the stitched-together outfit here; I think there's more to this MV than just killing the animals. Since this outfit is... not very likely to be worn in reality, did the animal killing happen at all? Even if it did, I think this shot remains an indicator that he sees himself as impure; guilty. I have a LOT to say about the inconsistencies in Haruka's MVs, but I'll save that for later... Anyway, back on topic) It is NOT "having the mental capacity of a child, so being unable to date etc." Haruka has still lived 17 years, maybe even more, since he isn't too interested in remembering his age. How do you treat actual neurodivergent people if this is how you see him?

When I rewatch the MVs, relisten to the VDs, reread the interrogations and timelines, I see no evil, just an incredibly broken, misunderstood person.

#please excuse any inconsistencies or spelling mistakes its almost 5am ive been awake all night lmaooo #im open to discussion but pls be nice :(#im a relatively new milgram fan (got into it just when ILY MV came out—got hyperfixated oct/nov) so please inform me if I say anything wrong #i love haruka so so much aaugh #i will defend him till my last breath #milgram #sakurai haruka #milgram project #haruka sakurai #jay rambles bleh idk #should i even tag this #i feel so scared to share my thoughts on the milgram prisoners AAA i hope everything makes sense

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cheyj05 · 4 months

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Kotoko's murder isn't what we think it is

Take at look at this here

This is a translation of what it says on Kotoko's phone in Deep Cover( by @ranmaru-kageyama (sorry for not asking first, I had to make this post before my thoughts disappeared). This whole thing is obviously important, this paragraph is the core of this theory.

"The verdict ruled in this case was 'legitimate defense'. According to the university student, she had no choice but to kill the victim after getting into a scuffle with him while he was 'red-handed kidnapping a minor'. The defense argued that an elementary student witness gave a similar testimony, and that this counted as self-defense."

There's a lot to note here so I'll dissect it best I can.

"the university student"- At the point the murder shown in Harrow occurred, Kotoko was still a university student, but by the time she entered Milgram, she had already dropped out. To quote, "I'm a university student, but I dropped out." Now, it's been more or less shown that the prisoners aren't taken immediately after their murder takes place. In Bring it On, we see Fuuta's supposed friends turn on him after his victim committed suicide and blame him for it, In both Weakness and All-Knowing, All-Agony, we see Haruka seemingly be caught by the police. But they're still taken a short time after the murder takes place, since we never see anything that seems like it could've happened more than an hour after their murders took place. I don't know for sure but I'm pretty sure fully dropping out of college takes more than an hour. This implies that Kotoko wasn't taken to Milgram anytime soon after the events shown in Harrow.

Supporting this idea is the fact that it says, "a verdict was reached", meaning she was on *trial*. I'm not an expert, but I'm pretty sure trials take a long time. Also-hey wait a second- Kotoko's murder here was already judged, wasn't it? That murder had already been given a verdict. Why would Kotoko be on trial in Milgram for a murder she had already been on trial for?

In conclusion, the murder shown in Harrow is *not* the murder she's in Milgram for. We don't know what her actual murder was. We know literally nothing about her murder, especially since Kotoko herself has literally never talked about her murder once. Has anybody noticed that she has literally never talked about her crime? She only ever talked about her ideals; her crime was never directly addressed by Kotoko herself. Maybe she also thinks the one she's on trial for is the one from Harrow.

#Milgram #kotoko yuzuriha #deep cover spoilers #milgram theory #deep cover theory

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sonobeunitsarecool · 4 months

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Sakurai Haruka: An idea (pt. 1)

Okay, dramatic title, but this is just about the information we have that points to Haruka having spent a decent amount of time in a psych ward. ...it's more long-winded than this needs to be, my English teachers (and all my other ones) keep saying I need to be more concise. Can't be bothered. Part 1: Haruka, language, and education. Starting with the character description, we get that he initially only responds to Es's questions with "a word or two", though once he's used to being around someone he becomes "talkative". He likes to talk with the others, even saying that it's his "hobby" in his T1 Q12 response. However, "since his communication skills are poor, he is unable to hold a proper conversation".

Across the whole project, particularly in the first trial, he's hesitant to interact, but he keeps on trying. He seems to stutter a lot, many of his int. answers are written with basic kanji, same with the Japanese subtitles for Weakness and AKAA. Haruka's unused to talking unless the expectations for him are clear (a common theme for him), he's not got a lot of practice with social situations, and his behaviour is notably anxious. It's likely that, so far in his life, he hasn't actually needed any language skills more complex than that. His vocab and character recognition/writing should be better than they are, if only by necessity. It's clear that he's capable of learning the language, as he does know some kanji and his hiragana, and he's adept in using what he does know to fill in the gaps (i.e, in the VDs). ...if he went to school, which he should have, then he'd be more proficient in Japanese. I'm not sure what Haruka's approximate proficiency level is, but it's probably about junior high level (12-15 yrs old, Mu is 16 and in her first year of high school). But he's made very little mention of school in general, if any. Mu's entire MVs are in a school setting, and Yuno at least talks about it (saying she's a high school third year and mentioning theatre club). I don't think Haruka's attended high school, at least. Junior high, maybe, but definitely not high school. He says that knowing another language is "impossible", even if English is mandatory in most Japanese schools. He's not working, either (most expensive thing he's bought was candy floss), or finding education in other areas like a trade or art. He's, technically, a NEET. But he wants to talk to the others. He actively enjoys it. He's responsive. He isn't a hikikomori, really, since between talking to another of the prisoners and being on his own, he'd choose to talk.

It's a conclusion most of us have come to. The neglect and abuse of Haruka, from his mother (he considers his father to be part of his family, but he only really talks about his mother, and his father "wasn't particularly interested" in him. Probably left in his childhood). He wants to be noticed. He wants people to like him. He was jealous of the person he killed. But... why keep him from school? Because of shame (of having a neurodiverse child)? Japan finds it very important to attend school, it's a big thing. Many would find it more shameful not to go. It's not an issue of cost, Haruka's had several pets and those can be expensive to care for. Time? The drain of being a caretaker? Better to send the kid to school, get them doing lots of clubs. But what if, logistically and practically, there wasn't much point to sending Haruka to high school in the first place? If Haruka had spent a significant amount of time on an inpatient unit, then it makes sense. Especially if he has been readmitted on multiple occasions, not far apart (which would be more realistic than one long admission spanning years, I think), then he'd miss too much school to justify enrolling him. He'd miss too many classes, be too far behind, and it would overall be worse for his mental wellbeing to switch between psych care and rigorous education, instead of going between psych care and home. It does actually make sense, to focus on Haruka's mental health instead of attempting schoolwork. ...Not to say that the whole situation was handled well, ahaha no. It explains:

his apparent lack of high school education

why we see the inside of his home prominently in his MVs

why he uses Japanese that's below his expected proficiency level (he's trying to get better, and he's probably been infantilised a bit by professionals and his mother, so there was never a "need" to work on his vocab)

a good part of why Haruka's mother seemingly has never gotten into trouble in regards to her care of Haruka (because, in some ways, she's actually doing the right thing, somehow)

why Haruka doesn't quite know how to talk to people

Okay too long, going to make a part 2 later. More about the evidence pointing to a psych ward specifically, and how that puts much of his behaviour into context beyond "oh he never grew up".

#milgram #haruka sakurai #sakurai haruka #milgram theory #milgram thoughts

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docholligay · 1 month

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Do you think having such a personalized and detailed headcanon makes it harder to enjoy fic about the show/game that's written by others?

I mean sure, probably.

But unfortunately things I adore, for people named Doc who are me, fall into one of two buckets:

The character work and plot in this show are incredible, I find myself turning it around in my mind like a rotisserie chicken. I constantly discover new things about the show/book/game or the characters in it. I do not read fic about this, because why would I? Every answer I search for is in the text. I want to talk about this with someone, but about what is THERE, not what could be there. Ex: The Haunting of Hill House, Picnic at Hanging Rock, Piranesi, Bioshock:Infinite, Watership Down, Yellowjackets, among others.

The concepts of this could be amazing but are handled so fucking badly so consistently, in a shocking contrast to how INCONSISTENT the character work is, that all I want to do is steal it and make it better. All i want to do is turn it into something that doesn't suck ass when you look at it too hard. So I am going to take it SO seriously, and I am going to develop the rich inner lives for these characters that they lack, with intense backstories and families and motivation for how they got to be the person we know, or know sometimes, in certain episodes or shorts. Ex: Sailor Moon and Overwatch are the biggies here obviously, this is actually not an emotion I feel very often. I don't have intense backstories and extra-textual feelings and ideas about most of the stuff I read and watch, these two are just my Spiders Georg.

So! The odds on me being into something in the correct way to make me want to Seek Treasure Elsewhere but also I have a chill enough attitude about how the characters are that Any Dream Will Do is almost nil. I do not in ANY way mean this in a shady way, but I mostly read published adult fiction for entertainment and not fanfic. I am very picky about my fanfic. So, "plus these two new red and blue girls into Starbucks" often won't work for me, because the reasons to have Haruka and Michiru meet in a coffee shop are completely different from any of the reasons Fareeha and Angela might meet in a coffee shop, and so many of those types are archtypical plug and play stuff. Honestly, I have skated the idea of making a cheat sheet of fanon archetypes of various characters and buying a typewriter to sell 100-200 word 'quick fic' at cons with my sister. That's how common it is to use these archetypes. This is not a criticism! At all!

But, to take the two couples above, I have read so much BORING SHIT about both HM and FA that I could throw up. Lesbian couples have a lot of very milquetoast writing about them, and a lot of meet-cute which isn't really my bag.

But there are authors I love! @oathkeeper-of-tarth was and is one of the best harumichi writers out there and we don't even have all the same headcanons. The rare occasions @verbforverb decides to grace me with "Jewish Mercy I don't Have To Write" I pop a can of bubbly in the tub. And on both fields of battle @keyofjetwolf has stuff I've had bookmarked for years, and there are some things even within Rei's backstory and history that we disagree on.

Actually, to that point what I like is good writing. You can write me into believing nearly anything. There are things I believe about Amelie when I'm reading @lemon-embalmer's stuff that when I go back to my own world, aren't true, but when I'm in her world who the fuck cares, I'm having a great time. EVEN MORE to the point, I read @moonlight-frittata's stupid sun and moon lesbian League of Legends shit and I would rather shoot myslef than know ANYTHING about the game, but unfortunately she has a beautiful turn of phrase and plot flow to her work that I just....read anyway, because it is good. Fucking @tallangrycockatiel had me like 25 pages or so into a story before I was like, "OH SHIT, IS THIS SLASH??? WAIT I DON'T WANT TO READ ABOUT BOYS' LOVE!! NO!!" *hits next page* And I still could not care less about that podcast and would never listen to it, and if I did I would be massively disappointed because to my mind, her John and Arthur are the actual article, and whatever the fuck is going on in the source material can eat my dick.

So, yes, I DO think that having a very particular point of view is going to mean I back out of a story where like, "Lena stepped out of her Chelsea flat, custom leather high heels clicking against the step" sometimes, or, you know, "Haruka put down her copy of War and Peace, each meticulous note codified by a color-coded tab. Blue was for historical references to research, green for character analysis, yellow for themes, blah blah blah*" But I am actually shockingly open minded in what I will read, often to the point that I'm reading stuff from SHIT I DO NOT LIKE OR CARE ABOUT, because the quality of the writing is excellent. So, also no.

*I met someone who read books like this and I suddenly realized what the literary equivalent of 'knowing someone is a serial killer' was.

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yakuzacanons · 5 months

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Hope you’re well and that I’m not bothering you, is it okay if I request a sort of headcanony thing about Zhao where his S/O is Majima’s (adoptive?) daughter? Like if Majima was kinda overprotective, how’d he react when he finds out? Idk if this is weird or not thank you <3

SKSKSK this is so funny to me??? I've never done anything like this before so hopefully it's up to snuff n all that. Headcanons below. Last one for today, big sick rn.

First of all, Zhao just didn't know. Had he known, he would've been like "Listen, I'm pretty sure I got into a fistfight with your dad". In his defense, she wouldn't be surprised hearing that. Majima kind of gets into fights with LOTS of people.

Zhao isn't exactly scared of Majima but once he finds out his girlfriend's dad is Majima, he's like "...Okay, what now?" I mean, of course he knows he'll meet the guy eventually but what the heck are they going to say to each other?

On the flip side, Majima always knew his daughter would at some point grow up and probably eventually find a partner and even get married one day. He doesn't have a fatherly instinct in the same way that Kiryu does with Haruka but he does have that same protectiveness.

Majima would never demand that his daughter do or not do something, but he's seen her get heartbroken a couple of times before and it was only at the behest of his daughter that those guys weren't walking around missing an eye themselves right now. Of course, his daughter hasn't told Zhao about that yet...

In the end, they decide to invite Majima over for dinner at Zhao's place. They figured since Zhao's such a great cook and Majima is easily pliable with food, it's the best scenario. Plus, it's a private setting so they don't have to worry about being in public with Majima because... well, he's HIM.

Majima jokingly complains the whole way there, saying things like "Whaddya mean this guy's gonna cook dinner? If he's tryna impress me, it ain't gonna work!" Secretly, he's thinking it must be pretty serious if he's about to meet his daughter's boyfriend at the guy's house. And he's going to cook food too? He must be serious about his daughter then too...

Zhao doesn't come out to greet them as he's busy holding a giant ass wok in the kitchen. From the smell, Majima seems temporarily pleased but he's a little snippy about the fact Zhao didn't even come out to say hi. His daughter also goes to the kitchen to help Zhao plate the food. Meanwhile, Majima sits down grumbling to himself about manners and how the dinner better be damn good.

Once Zhao finally steps out of the kitchen and the two make eye contact, Majima literally just lets out a loud "ACK" and recognizes him immediately. Zhao just kind of waves hello casually. Majima just kind of sits there shocked for a little bit while his daughter fills up a plate for him and Zhao pours them all some tea.

Majima finally snaps out of it and starts making all kinds of noise about how come no one told him when his daughter said she was dating a guy named Zhao that it just so happened to be the same Zhao that he got into a fight with before the Omi dissolved. His daughter hands him his plate and in his noisy panic, he quickly snatches the plate out of her hands and haphazardly shovels some food into his mouth, still talking and yammering away.

He instantly realizes it was a mistake to doubt Zhao's cooking because the food immediately makes him shut up. His frenzy is placated with each bite and eventually he just kind of looks at Zhao and nods. In hindsight, despite having gotten into a fight with Zhao at one point, the guy always seemed pretty chill. Plus, he did help with dissolving the Omi... also, his clothes are kind of cool?

All in all, the night ends up going pretty well. Majima enjoys the food but to his surprise, and kind of to his daughter's surprise too, he enjoys the conversations with Zhao more. Seeing how genuinely happy his daughter was all the proof he needed though: this guy might be the real deal. Provided he doesn't get into a fist fight with him ever again.

#majima megaphone moment #yakuza #yakuza headcanons #yakuza imagines #ryu ga gotoku #ryu ga gotoku headcanons #ryu ga gotoku imagines #goro majima #majima goro #zhao tianyou #tianyou zhao

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clownsalot · 7 months

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uhm i come bearing milgram ocs can i come play in the sandbox with you guys 👉👈

anyways here are my silly guys!!

(im kinda too lazy to come up with my own entire prisoner roster and Es, so i basically just plopped my guys straight into canon. also, im only throwing in stuff from trial 1 because i havent really thought out trial 2 yet beyond vague ideas)

details and stuff below the cut!!!

introduction

015

t1 songs of the prisoners

No, I'm too scared to—!

t1 voice trailer

Ah, my name is Takahashi Naoto. Just Naoto is fine. I'm 18, in my graduating year of highschool. Nice to meet you, Warden. I think asking me about how I feel will just sway your decision making. It's straightforward, so let's keep it simple. Just take the facts. —"—"- What the hell...what the hell? I didn't think it would...it wasn't supposed to...

016

t1 songs of the prisoners

This is...payback!

t1 voice trailer

Yo~ I'm Hashimoto Akane. I'm 15 years old, 3rd year middle school. That makes us a similar age, doesn't it? Let's get along! Well, I will admit that what I did definitely made some people very upset. You'll be deciding if I should be punished on their behalf, right? —"—"- You deserve this. You deserve this! You're the one who chose to go that far...!

interrogation questions

Q: Family?

015: Both my parents. An older brother, too. I don't talk to them often since I stopped living with them.

016: Myself, my mom and dad, and my younger sister. She's 14, I love her very much!!

Q: Who was your victim to you?

015: A schoolmate. Her name was Asuka. You could say we were friends.

016: She wasn't anyone important to me or anything, so don't get weird ideas. I only knew about her because of my sister.

Q: How is your experience in Milgram?

015: It's not all bad. I've never had this much free time before.

016: It's alright but I still kinda want to go home. I worry about how my sister is doing...

Q: What do you dislike?

015: Just in general? Well, it doesn't matter i guess. I don't like things that are bothersome.

016: People who mistreat others for no reason. They're terrible. Terrible!

Q: Are there things you regret?

015: I try not to think about them. Regrets don't erase your mistakes, so what's the point?

016: I did everything believing it was the right choice at the time. But I wish I'd done more sooner. It would have saved my sister a lot of suffering and I might not even be here if I had.

Q: Do you have apologetic feelings for your victim?

015: You're the one responsible for judging if I should, aren't you?

016: Who knows. But I don't regret what I did.

Q: Any prisoners you're close with?

015: I'm on good terms with everyone. Though, I like talking with Kayano. He's a bit like an older sibling.

016: I like taking care of Amane and always try to look after her, we're the youngest in the prison after all. But I don't know if she likes it...

Q: Which prisoner would you say is most like you?

015: Mr Mukuhara. There's just something about him, like if he looks at me too long he'll know what I did. That he'll know that I broke a promise too.

016: Not that sure actually...maybe Kotoko?No...Kajiyama? I don't know. But Kajiyama's actually kinda nice when you get down to it, isn't that surprising? He looks out for Haruka, like I try to do for Amane.

Q: Is there a verdict you hope for?

015: That would defeat the point. I want to be judged properly by an outside perspective. Whatever you decide must be correct, right?

016: I'd like to be forgiven, since I think I did the right thing. But I know what I did also hurt others, so I understand if you choose not to forgive me.

bonus notes!!

i was thinking that the trial results would go something like:

for naoto (015) it'd be t1 guilty t2 innocent, something like fuuta. because his mv and song would be super vague and the prevalent theory would paint him in a terrible light, kinda like shidou except without the pretty privilege, and like fuuta whether he feels bad or not is hard to tell, so he gets guiltied. then somehow his trial 2 would garner him a crap ton of sympathy again like fuuta and his vote would turn around

for akane (016) it'd be t1 innocent t2 guilty, kinda like a reverse of naoto. she might be like muu or kotoko where the trial 1 paints her as super sympathetic/heroic, leading you to root for her, but in trial 2 she gets painted in a more negative light so she gets guiltied then

funny side note is that in terms of character parallels by complete accident i accidentally gave naoto like a wild number of paralles to kazui?? like i reached the 'which prisoner would you say is most like you' question, looked at it and suddenly realized, hey isn't this guy just like kazui??? it's that 'i personally relate to kazui a staggering amount' swag ig

akane's parallels were a lot harder to think of because she paralleled a lot of characters in different ways, so the way i ended up writing her response was deliberate and it's great fun to me lol.

i actually couldn't decide if akane would like fuuta or hate his guts, so i didn't include a 'who do you get along with?' question here since i didn't know how to answer it

for their names i ended up going down the 100 most common japanese surnames list on wikipedia and choosing ones that i thought fit, then put them in combination with their given names. i think what i came up with is a little morbidly funny in relation to their crimes that i still think i was kinda clever for, but i didn't write anything about their actual crimes beyond the vague hints in the interro questions, and i havent included the actual characters for their names. idk is that interesting to you guys

so anyways i was wondering if it'd be better if i elaborated on the crimes and wrote them out as it happened in another post or..? idk what do you guys think? should i continue to just be super vague about them

i did also come up with these guys with a prisoner pair theme in mind and it's supposed to be something like 'how much of yourself would you give for your loved ones' but im a little afraid that might be too similar to shidou and mahiru's theme about love? even though their crimes are vastly different i think

anyways that's it, have a nice day!! if you were interested enough to read all the way to here thank you so much <3

#I JUST REALIZED I MADE MISTAKES WITH AKANE'S SPRITE NOO #i forgot the buckle and to add shine to her hair...maybe ill fix it maybe i wont #milgram oc #my silly guys who i throw around like dolls <- oc tag #for the interro answers i ended up dropping the japanese honorifics and tried just conveying it through which name they use to refer to the #feels weird with the honorifics but also feels weird without so that's something #edited the post because photo format got fucked i hope it is now unfuckdf we shall see

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seariii · 6 months

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Seeing a few people hating on Kotoko, and seeing their reasonings makes me think...

How some take others actions without much care about what is behind it, or even when they see what is behind the action, it's just on a superficial level...

I guess it really translates to what my friend said about "to everyone else it's OBVIOUS that your action makes you an asshole, but you yourself don't see it, and no one cares to explain it to you"... I'm not justifying her words or actions in any way, it's just...

In real life we act a certain way, and we see mean people who we dislike for a reason or another... 2 years ago, I had to work with someone who was a total asshole. Everyone hated him, except his girlfriend, who was my friend. She went on and on about how he was a sweetheart and so nice to her... He ended up cheating on her and hurting her deeply, she ended up hating him just like everyone else, despite everyone's warnings...

There are people who by my standards I'd consider "bad" which is a subjective term... I still don't believe Kotoko is a bad person, but I believe she has done terrible things... Encouraging Haruka like that, is almost like Muu not doing anything to stop him... I don't think he has "a higher chance of doing it" because of her words, I believe he had already decided and the moment he talked to her about it it was just to further set it in stone

She believes Haruka is a sinner so punishment shall be brought

Just like Amane did to her mother

Just like Fuuta did to that highschooler

Just like Kotoko herself did to that serial killer

... and just like Kotoko did to the guilty prisoners

She is cleaning the world in her own eyes... After tsumi pointed out to me how radicalization mirrors (or is basically a variant of) cult indoctrination, I can't stop thinking about even more parallels about Amane and Kotoko....

someone said how Kotoko is basically a window of the future of Amane if she isn't helped, and I can see it even more clearly now...

I don't know, I wish there was something that could be done - she says, as if these were real people and not fictional characters on a story

#milgram thoughts #i dont wanna main tag this #also im sorry its my savior complex acting up milgram does that to me #'i have to do something' sit down girl and chill you don't *have to* do anything #sorry i'm just rambling #im not even sure what i was trying to say

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good-beanswrites · 2 months

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Okay, kyanako said that I can ask for a director's commentary on the fic you wrote for me.

Is there anything you’d like to share about writing this fic? Any thoughts during the writing? Maybe any questions for me?

Not you too 😭😭😭 Haha, but thank you for the option to ask you questions, because I actually do have a few! My normal commentary is in pink, but I put questions in blue :) Some of them are specifics about your characters, but I also just want to hear your takes on writing Es 👀 I don't write them super often, so I'm curious how you characterize them...

Es clutched at their head. Their fingers tore through their hair. It was the middle of the night, so they resisted the urge to shout. They didn’t want to draw any attention to themself. If they remained completely silent, though, they wouldn’t need to refrain from crying.

And so they cried.

I wanted to start off right away by setting the theme of Es experiencing the typical pain of a child in their position, but refusing to be treated like the are.

You see, there is only one sensation worse than waking up from an awful dream: waking up from a very, very, good one.

I'm kind of relying on readers understanding this feeling already, I didn't really know how to put it into words 😅 (Is this common for people?) It's happened to me several times, and it genuinely can hit harder than a nightmare.

Es had grown accustomed to the nightmares that Milgram produced. In these dreams, Es might take the place of the prisoners. Their stomach would twist with horror at the blood on their hands. Other times, they found themselves in the victim’s shoes. They’d wake in a cold sweat, feeling hands closing around their throat, or weapons swung at their temple.

I feel like a lot of fics (rightfully) focus on all the messed up things Es experiences on a daily basis, like this. I'm usually more upset by their canon lack of interest in their past and future. Their refusal to miss/hope for anything better is really what hurts me, and it took a while to figure out what may push them to the point of finally acknowledging it. I thought a dream was a good start. When you picture them, are they wondering about their identity a lot? Would certain things be enough to jog their memory, or do only extreme situations get through to them?

But they weren’t prepared for a dream of absolute peace. They were happy. They were laughing. There were people nearby, smiling. It was all emotion and no detail – not a single face, place, or voice, was clear – but they knew for sure what the dream had consisted of.

Es was with their family.

I debated so long on naming specifics about what they saw, whether it was glimpses of your characters or small lines of dialogue... I still hadn't decided if I wanted the dream to be a real memory or just their imagination, though, so I kept it up to interpretation. (Also, I was so afraid of getting something wrong about who they'd be close to or how they'd react in your mind 😭 "he wouldn't fucking say that" fr). In an early draft of this, Es had fallen asleep while cataloguing the prisoners' family members, and dreamed that they were a part of some of those families. It wasn't as effective as I'd hoped, so I got right to the point and made it their own family here.

So uh, I guess, what would they dream about if it were 100% accurate to their real family? I also thought about making the dream a vision sent from them to communicate a message -- is this something that a family member could/would do? And which relative is Es closest to? I've heard you talk more about their father, but I wasn't sure if that necessarily meant they were the closest. (I wanted to make a more specific parallel with one of the prisoners. I'd pair them with Amane if they were close with their father, Haruka if it was their mother, Mikoto if it was a sibling. Since I wasn't sure, I thought Haruka was a safe bet.)

They choked out another sob.

For the longest time, they wondered if they even had a past to remember. But that was all foolishness – Milgram was in the business of judging humans, not creating them out of thin air. They’d tried asking Jackalope, once. He turned out just as cryptic as some of the prisoners in their interrogations. Another time, they had considered using the prison’s mysterious machine on themself. There was no way to operate it alone, though. And when it came down to it, they were always alone.

Yeah. So. I made myself upset realizing the isolation Es feels :((( They're at Jackalope's mercy as much as the prisoners are, but they can never truly bond with the others over it. They're different from the prisoners, but they don't even have that much power over them (only responsibility). I thought about including an actual attempt to use the machine without someone watching over them, and what a risk that would be. It ended up taking the story way off-focus, but I wonder what could actually drive them to the point of doing something dangerous in the name of getting memories back, or would they always be accepting of the situation, given their personality?

They curled themself tight, dragging the bedsheets with them. Usually when they wondered about their past, mere curiosity washed over them. Now, they were flooded with an entirely new type of longing. It filled their chest. No, that wasn't it. Rather, the feeling left a wide hole through them.

I'm glad you thought the curling up was cute ;--; I just wanted the reader to remember how young and small they are ;----; I was sad writing this and needed everyone to remember along with me 😭

If they did have a family, had Es been stolen away? Could there be someone else out there right now, crying in the middle of the night, just as hard as Es was crying for them? The thought was not comforting.

Or, like Es, had they forgotten all traces of their connection? That possibility also did more harm than good.

Es tried to reassure themself – if this family hadn’t come looking for them, maybe it meant they weren't wanted in the first place. Maybe Es had been willingly turned over to Milgram, their parents glad to be rid of them.

That thought didn't help at all.

I had a lot of fun evilly choosing the most painful possibilities for Es to consider >:3 (<- SHE'S LYING SHE MADE HERSELF CRY). The uncertainty would hurt any any reader, but as my target, I hoped to pinpoint some exact things you'd mentioned in the past. I was picturing the art of Es' father hunting Milgram down, and some of your comments about them remembering and missing Es.

Something clattered out in the corridor. That must have been what woke them. They rose from bed, ready to raise hell. How dare one of the prisoners rip them from such a dream. Es could never return. The offender would pay for this.

It took only a moment to put on their uniform and wipe the tears from their cheeks. They swung the door open to find Haruka stumbling down the hall.

I'm always a sucker for the uniform being a symbol of Es' obsession with their role -- putting it on is the same as them putting up an act, even if they don't quite realize it.

“Prisoner number one, what the –” they grabbed his arm. Only then did they notice the dazed look in his eyes. His body flinched, waking from what must have been sleepwalking.

“Ah! W-warden!” He blinked, his mind still stuck somewhere else. “I’m s-sorry! What, ah… I was dreaming... She was – she was right here…”

After this part I tried ending the drabble with Haruka saying, "I was dreaming," and Es replying bitterly, "me too." Haruka then says, "it was about my family," and much quieter, Es repeats "me too." As much as I loved the exchange, I wanted the gut-wrenching pain of Es rejecting their family rather than missing them at the very end 😎👍

Es took a measured breath. They steeled their expression. There would be no unleashing hell tonight. They had lost sight of their role. They had gotten distracted with childish emotions and silly dreams. They were Milgram’s warden, not some kid like Haruka who wandered around the prison late at night looking for his mama.

Es adjusted the hat over their hair. It was good, they told themself, that they couldn't remember a thing from the dream. They didn't need any of those people. They were perfectly fine on their own. Such a distraction would not happen again.

I had to mention the uniform hat again because I'm just too obsessed with the symbolism asdfsdfs. And yeah, like you said, all of this was an attempt to convince themself. They don't really believe it, but they have to make themself believe it, or else they'll be in even more pain...

“Let’s get you back to bed.”

“But, my p-parents, they were–”

“They’re not here. Nobody is. Back to your cell, prisoner.”

Of course "they're not here" is reflecting Es and Haruka both missing their parents, but I hoped the last line would also continue the parallels between them -- at the end of the night, Es is a prisoner here too :(

#THERE I HOPE YOU ALL ARE HAPPY MAKING ME RELIVE ALL THIS PAIN -- YOU ALL MUST RELIVE IT TOO 😭#but yes!!! i felt bad i didnt add too many specifics despite it being a specific drabble for you #but if i asked you questions beforehand it would have ruined the surprise 😭#so id love to hear literally all your thoughts on es' family #appearances - personalities - relationship dynamics #absolutely no pressure if you dont want to lol 😅#just know that im very interested!!#thank you for the ask!!#commentary

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clover0101 · 9 months

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I saw a yumeship week on twt so im hoping in even if mine is oc x canon idk the differences anymore

Day 1: first meeting!! I made a drabble and a sketch for this

(click expand to read)

The shouts, complaints, and arguments filled the common area of MILGRAM, which, despite being quite large, seemed to shrink more and more for the blue-haired boy. The footsteps of the other prisoners echoed along with the crying of some, others remained apart trying to think rationally about what was happening, but the only certain thing here is that nothing was rational.

Everyone woke up in an unfamiliar place, wearing prisoner's clothes, assigned numbers and cells, and given a brief explanation of why they were there - they had all ended someone's life, and it’s time for them to get their judgement. One group protested the accusation, another part accepted it and decided to remain silent. Despite listening carefully, Haruka could not fully understand it. The place seemed to function in a strange way, to say the least, and he had always been a bit slow to comprehend strange things.

The danger of the unknown and the nerves that interacting with others bring led him to just take a seat in one corner of the room, watching the chaos come and go in front of him. He hugged his knees, trying to make himself smaller. Sudden movements made him startle, but he couldn’t react in any other way, he didn’t want to leave his precious 'refuge' out of fear of bothering others. After all, he was different, and even if he wanted to contribute, he surely couldn’t do anything...

His thoughts were interrupted by a red-haired boy, who had apparently been arguing with a brunette man; "Hey, the guy in the corner!” he pointed directly at Haruka, taking steps that seemed intimidating towards the younger boy. The other man followed him closely. "This loser here says it would be better to wait and see what’s happening, but I think we should find the guard and kick their ass already. What do you say? We need strong people on our side."

"I don't think we could solve it just like that..." The brown-haired boy scratched the back of his neck, an uncomfortable smile on his face.

"Uh..." Haruka opened his mouth, trying to say something. Someone was talking to him... These two guys were looking at him right now. His heart was pounding from anxiety and he clenched his fists, his nails digging into his already wounded flesh. "I, uh, um... Ah, n-no... I-I D-"

"Pffft. Nevermind," the redhead interrupted before he could even finish the sentence, turning his back and returning to where the rest of the group was. You can't count on anyone here, he thought. Meanwhile, the other boy waved goodbye to Haruka, who hunched over and buried his face between his knees, closing his eyes tightly. He had barely arrived and already disappointed someone? This can’t be happening.

He remained silent for several more minutes, his eyes fluttering open when the argument seemed to calm down. A person was looking at him over their shoulder, their appearance standing out among the others due to an eyepatch and big, bright red eyes that seemed to stare right into his soul. They approached Haruka slowly, almost carefully to not to scare him, which made the boy slowly straighten up a bit, but not enough to make eye contact.

"Hey," their gentle voice made the boy startle even if they tried not to. "I know this can be hard to understand, you see, I'm a little scared too!" they accompanied their attempt at socializing with a laugh, standing beside him and leaning their back against the wall, their hands fidgeting restlessly in front of them.

A few seconds of silence passed, in which Haruka debated if he should even speak. His companion quickly realized, and just continued; "You don't talk much... right? Well, you might be lucky, because people often tell me I talk a lot!" they smiled, extending their hand downwards. "My name is Matsuo Hikaru, but you can just call me Hikaru. What's yours?"

He blinked a couple times, glancing out of the corner of his eye at Hikaru's pale hands, adorned with every color he could imagine, contrasting with the simple and plain prison uniform. He squirmed in his place, looking down again, embarrassed. He wasn’t able to look at them in the eye, fearing disappointing them as he did with the other man earlier. "Uh... My name is Haruka... Haruka Sakurai." he managed to murmur after a while of silence, daring to try to look the prisoner in the eye, but quickly glanced away again. "N-Nice to meet you, uh, Hikaru..." Is this what people say after introducing themselves? He shook his head, chewing on his lower lip.

"Ah! Haruka-kun is a cute name! And your hair is also quite cute, it reminds me of lobelias!" Hikaru extended their hands again, waving them as they spoke. The blue-haired boy ducks his head self-conciously, a faint blush tinting his cheeks at the praise. Why was this person being so nice to him? "Everything that's happening is strange, but I'm sure it'll turn out well... For you guys, at least," Haruka didn't fully understand what Hikaru meant by those last words, but for the first time in their encounter he looked up and nodded. He thought that, at the very least, Hikaru deserved that from him. For giving him some attention. "Ah, of course, Haruka-kun! We must be more optimistic. Not like that idiot over there, he's just giving everyone a headache."

Their complaint made Haruka's eyes open wide. He would never dare speak about anyone like that, much less if they could hear him. Still, he laughed a little, enjoying the conversation, even though the one talking the most was Hikaru. "Hah... I-I guess you're right..."

#milgram #haruka sakurai #art #my art #milgram fanart #ocgram #hikaru matsuo #haruhika #haruhika week

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leftersteindraws · 15 days

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Hi! I'd like to hear your opinion on STY's anime. Mine's probably very biased since I read the source material first, tho aside from how they made the cases very simple and pretty much skipped everything, the way they portrayed the characters was probably what bothered me most. ESPECIALLY Yakumo and Haruka. Yakumo barely made any expression throughout the episodes although in the light novel he does smile, even laughs (sometimes outbursts XD). Regardless, I'd like to hear your opinion.

Hi anon!

I didn't read the source material prior to watching it but I read the manga first (this was at a time when the anime was still pretty recent and the manga storyline hasn't gone very far, so the anime was my exposure to the start of the novel storyline's escalation at volume 5-6). I did rewatch it at some point but my memory of it is pretty hazy so my opinion is also probably both biased and somewhat unreliable 🤷‍♂️ (admittedly I'm at a point where I'm not reliant on official materials to maintain interest in the series so I'm sure some of you revisit it more often than I do).

I think I mostly have the same opinion as you. It was lacking in a lot of aspects including what you've mentioned, and when recommending the series I always advise against watching it as one's first introduction to the series.

The problem with way they portrayed the characters I think is that they were trying to emulate Oda-sensei's style and depiction of the characters especially with lead characters like Yakumo and Haruka, but were too focused on making them look a certain way that they fall short in making the characters look more expressive. I think that's a fairly common trap when it comes to drawing characters in manga/anime style though (it's honestly one of my biggest worry with my own art too; I value faithful characterization pretty highly).

Honestly if we were to talk about the show's content itself the main (perhaps sole) highlight of the anime to me would be Daisuke Ono's performance...All else aside, I'm glad they actually managed to get a notable VA for Yakumo.

At the end of the day, an adaptation is an adaptation. Every medium has its own strengths and limitations which meant not everything from the source material will always be adaptable from one medium to another. Add in other constraints like budget, project timeline, executive decisions, manpower and number of episodes, then perhaps they had done all they could even if the end product leaves much to be desired. Hence to me, the adaptation's shortfall doesn't feel like ones that are unique to the series but rather common with anime adaptations in particular. This reasoning is simply how I made peace with the adaptation. Even the way it was, it still helped introduce people to the series and bring their attention to the manga and original novel as well.

Will we ever get a reboot? Honestly, I don't really expect one, although I always appreciate new official JP content in any form as a sign the series is alive and well! The novels are doing well enough in Japan that it allowed Kaminaga-sensei to write more for the series (in fact, they just announced the official start date of the sequel and complete edition today). However, I've been feeling that the type of audience the series primarily attracted in Japan doesn't necessarily overlap with anime and/or manga audiences...I don't know how else to describe it and it could very well be my own hunch but that's just how I feel. We'll just have to wait and see.

#lefterstein replies #ask lefterstein #shinrei tantei yakumo #psychic detective yakumo #Did i actually answer the question lol

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itsbeenliketenyearsitsprettywild · 10 months

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*deep breath* Okay. In that case, buckle the fuck up.

For all I know, there might be canon lore or word from the creator that entirely debunks this idea. If so, please feel free to tell me directly! I love discussion with other fans, and don't take it personally if a theory i back turns out to be incorrect!

(and honestly somewhere along the way I realized I DO NOT have the spell slots necessary to put my full thesis down, so sadly you're only getting the cliffnotes and some shitty visuals I made instead.) But before I get into it, I'd like to put a warning for those tempted to keep reading: This is the sort of pretentious plot twist spoiler that (depending on your tastes) might make the experience of MILGRAM a lot less fun for you just by knowing/considering it. As such, please use discretion before clicking on the read more. But! I don't think it'll spoil anything to state the basic premise.

The truth is deceptively simple: MILGRAM is a work of fiction set up so that us, the audience, get to influence the characters present in the narrative, thus directly influencing everything that happens, via the cast/crew reacting to our decisions according.

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if you some of you think I'm joking or wondering how that in any way counts as a theory.

Part 1: A Cosmic Horror Story(ish) by Any Other Name

In which case, lemme shift the spotlight from the audience's perspective of Milgram to the character's experience of it:

While they don't realize it, the characters of MILGRAM are intentionally constructed beings, within an intentionally constructed universe. Which isn't to say that they, as characters, don't have thoughts and feelings. Their lives and experiences and crimes are just as real as everything else around them. But! Seeing as all of that is fictional, that's... debatable, at best.

They were all created (for the purpose of entertainment) by a force/entity that is basically all-powerful within their universe, but is almost entirely passive in nature. Or to put it another way: It's the cast/crew of MILGRAM that makes this whole narrative exist, but they're always gonna stay in the background of the story. The focus is always on the characters and how they deal with all this.

Past the force that created them, there is one other group of entities that exists outside the character's universe. It's these beings who actively engage with them, through means that go beyond the physical. ie; that us, the audience!! We vote, engage in theorycrafting, and talk about the characters to the point where oh shit they might be going a little insane from hearing us, actually.

Part 2: Other Helpful (and Very Shitty) Visual Aids, Without Context

Part 3: "Wait, so that means we shouldn't have been vot-" Lemme stop you there

With all this in mind, the conclusion most people would immediately come to would be "So this really was just the creators redoing the Milgram experiments, and our only ethical option is to not vote at all!"

Which, no.

Though we might largely have the most direct say in how things go down, the creators can still weigh in if we refuse to play by their rules.

For example, where you here when Haruka's 2nd Trial vote went down? Because, while I wasn't, I have seen the comments people posted during and after that time period.

That is to say, people were trying really hard to get him to a 50/50 tie stall, thus breaking the system - it was only right near the end that the poll hard shifted towards guilty.

Something similar (but a lot more shitposty) happened with Mikoto's first trial vote, too; apparently, the unspoken consensus was that everyone wanted Mikoto to be exactly 69% guilty (lol, never change folks). But, guess what? Right at the end - small shift towards innocent. Tragically ending The Meme Dream for everyone involved.

For all that we, the audience, are mostly in control of where things end up, the creators are more than willing to step in if we stop playing by their rules or don't take things seriously enough and shift votes one way or another depending.

Which means that all not voting does is put it in the creator's hands to decide - and, in that case, they could end up making the choice that you don't like.

So, for all it can feel icky for us voters to be C'thulu to the characters, depending on your outlook, trying to influence them can still be pretty important.

#ask #anonymous #MILGRAM #MILGRAM project #I don't have the energy to write out my five bajillion page essay on the details #also edited the tags and added an image after i felt a bit better about this #now please DO feel free to discuss this with me

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oboetemasuka · 4 months

Text

Order of Attack, part 9

"A Withering Flame"

Finally, I've written Fuuta's voice drama. And revised it. And revised it again. And used the mega shears on the dialogue because Fuuta can't use long sentences.

What a monster of a chapter. I deserve a break. Next up is a shorter one-shot.

Trigger warnings for suicidal thoughts. Haruka's situation is also briefly mentioned. There's also something about Fuuta repeatedly stopping Es from getting Shidou.

(Courtesy link to the fic; will update at some point)

----

Es entered the cell and took in the layout. Fuuta was propped up in a hospital bed, his neck and torso securely braced and his left arm in a sling. He was kneading a Jackalope stress toy with his right hand, digging his nails into it. More stress toys stood on the table to his right, and Es almost tripped on one a few feet ahead. As Fuuta saw Es approaching, he dropped what he was holding and swatted the rest out of his reach.

"Been a… while, Warden," Fuuta said. Es was expecting more malice in his tone, but he sounded like his life force was draining.

"Fuuta… you…" They pulled a chair to the side of the table and took a seat. "Are you okay?"

"…look like it?" Fuuta responded. If he was angry, his voice did a terrible job of showing it.

Es didn't know how to respond. Do I look like it? was obviously a rhetorical question, but they needed to show some tact.

After a moment, Fuuta spoke up again. "…look awful… don't I?"

Still unsure of what to say, Es nodded slightly.

"Could've been worse. Could've died."

Es stared down, pondering their next words. Several seconds passed, and then Fuuta's voice registered in their head again.

"Oi… talking to you." Fuuta's irritated glare met Es as they lifted their head.

"I'm sorry," they said, "I'm… I'm not sure what I can say."

"Don't know what to say? I almost died because of… you don't know… Even so, it's a miracle I … If Shidou had taken any longer, would've been over for me. Don't blame him, though. …Oi, say something."

"Sor-"

"Sorry won't cut it." Fuuta sounded more pained than angry.

Es took a breath. "…Kotoko did this to you?"

"No sh… agh…" Fuuta gasped for air.

"Fuuta!" Es got up and walked to his side. "I'll go get Shidou-"

"Don't!" Fuuta's eyes betrayed his desperation. After they locked eyes for a few moments, Fuuta let out a chuckle. "Look … you … down on me, like always. Must be so happy to see…"

"I- no, I'm not. I didn't mean for this to happen. I didn't think Kotoko would-"

"Beat me to near-death? What'd you expect … you affirmed her…"

"I…"

"…thought she wouldn’t have … same crime here in… Oi, quit standing… staring…"

"I’m sorry, I didn't think-"

"Useless… apology…"

But what else could Es do besides apologize? Stand their ground and contradict Fuuta while he was in that pitiful state?

"Really didn't think it'd… turn out… Me too. All I did… call some bad person out… say what's wrong was wrong… Their reasons were b-" Fuuta gasped and clutched his chest. Es began to turn towards the door, but Fuuta grabbed their cape with his right hand.

Es swatted his hand away. "Hey, you can't just grab me like that."

"Don't dare…"

"Fine, I won't get Shidou. Yet." Es stood in place and waited for Fuuta to regain his voice.

"You judged me… said I was unforgivable… without the whole story… How's that any different?"

"Excuse me?"

"That's so hypo- khh!" Fuuta slammed his hand on the table, trying to play it off as an emphasis, but that didn't mask his pain.

"Careful, Fuuta! You'll hurt-" Es gave up on that concern when Fuuta glared. "Someone died because of you. You're saying I'm the same?"

"I didn't think they'd die!"

"But you knew people would dogpile them."

"I wasn't acting alone. Anyone else… out of my control… Why'd you pick me…"

"Milgram has judged-"

"Milgram doesn't make any f-"

Maybe Es should have put their foot down and called Shidou regardless of Fuuta's wishes. But something compelled them to hear him out. "Don't push yourself."

Fuuta was clearly annoyed, but he took a breath and continued. "Still don't see it? We're just the same!"

"Me? The same as you?" Es couldn't deny Fuuta's point. They both made their judgments without thinking that someone could be seriously hurt—or dead.

"I'll tell you. They were just in middle school. Maybe closer to Amane… than you…"

"Amane…" Es already knew this from what they gleaned from Fuuta's first video, but it didn't register how close in age their victims were. Wait, why were they thinking of Amane as a victim? "Amane… huh… I noticed you two have been spending a lot of time together lately."

"You kidding? Don't change the subject... You don't talk about her like… Only one who cared before everything went to hell. You made her go through it. Decided she wasn't forgivable… painted a target… She could've died too! Then we'd be exactly…"

"Don't put me on the same level as you."

"Are you not-"

"I'm just doing my job. Nobody told you to go online and decide who are bad people and harass them. You made a game out of judgment. This is what I'm supposed to do."

Fuuta laughed at Es for still failing to acknowledge their similarities. Then he winced in pain. Then he kept laughing and mocking Es for taking their job seriously. Es snapped back. A pointless, cyclical conversation. Fuuta stopped Es from calling Shidou no less than three times.

Eventually, the bell brought the conversation to a halt.

Silence.

Why was Fuuta so quiet?

"Hey… Fuuta?" Es leaned over to get a better look at his face. His eyes seemed glassy, and he seemed to be breathing more slowly. "Fuuta… I'll go get-"

"Don't. Not worth…"

"Worth what?"

"If you're not going to… forgive… what's the point… living?"

"Don't say-"

"Everything hurts so much. Painkillers don't help… Strange wonder I survived. Is it really worth it?"

"Worth it…" What could Es even say about that? Anything they could think of was either more unwanted pity or…

A cold accusation that Fuuta was bargaining his life for forgiveness. Es's thoughts flitted back to Haruka's interrogation- no, that comparison was unfair. Haruka's loaded intentions were worlds away from Fuuta's resignation. How could Es dare…

"I understand… this job requires resolve…"

"Resolve? You really have resolve… just kill me. With your own two hands. Don't hide behind the rules."

"I can't do that. I can't sink to the prisoners' level. It's my job as the warden to make a fair judgement. I… I have to judge each and every one of you… no matter how much they plead, cry, or bargain… even if they are dying right in front of me."

"What is even the point? You give a damn about my life, forgive me! If not, kill me… get it over with."

"Bargaining tactics won't work with me."

"Not like I care. Or… if I get out of this alive, I'll… kill… you…"

"Fine by me. If we truly are the same, then I'll have had it coming. Now, Prisoner no. 3, Fuuta, sing your sins."

----

Q: “What are you thinking about?”

A: “Ways to get rid of the pain”

#milgram #fuuta kajiyama #es milgram #milgram es #cw suicidal thoughts #fic #bad things happen to amane #order of attack

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skrunksthatwunk · 11 months

Text

ok so. kiwami 2. rooftop scene. the ending. it's a bit of a clusterfuck but i wanna talk about one detail, a problem they bring to your attention by Fucking. Talking About Her.

haruka is watching all of this unfold.

[this post is like 4.5k words long + pretty critical + has spoilers for kiwami and kiwami 2, and really minor/vague ones for a couple others. they're not that bad though, trust me (and i added a warning in the one place it is major)]

ALSO CONTENT WARNING i'm gonna talk about kiryu's passive suicidality a good amount in this one, so stay away from this if you think that might affect you negatively/you'd be better off skipping it. i'll also make a tl;dr (which i will highlight in red) at the very end if you really wanna know what my point is that will exclude those elements <3. i am also going to use a lot of choice-based language in regards to kiryu's contemplation of suicide because i think it's the lens through which the games treat the topic, but i personally don't find it a productive or realistic way to look at suicide or suicidal ideation at all. someone dying by suicide absolutely does not mean they don't care about their loved ones enough to fight on or whatever. i love you, and proceed with caution on this one.

(also i'm using the kiwamis as my point of reference because i uh. don't have a ps2? those are the games that i played, and though the differences are likely slight, i wanna be clear about that. also,, ignore the watermark on these screenshots,, i didn't notice them and i'm not retaking them. we're all gonna have to settle for youtube cutscene comps for now xoxo)

first, we have to talk about the ending of the first game.

[note: i am Really Really Confident kiryu has a conversation earlier in the game about his going to jail in nishiki's stead being him running away and choosing not to resist his two options (go to jail or let nishiki go to jail) and define his own path, fighting his way against fate to make it happen. part of why i'm so confident it exists is because it made such an impression on me at the time. it's pretty important to my interpretation of things but i also can't find it for the life of me, so uh. sorry ✌️ i really tried. this post's takes/analysis will be dependent on this scene existing, so keep that in mind. if anyone knows where to find the scene/screenshots of it, lmk and i'll add a follow-up with it]

kiwami stuff

so as she's dying, yumi tells haruka this:

that she may be dying (painfully, and right as she's getting everything she wanted), but she doesn't regret it, because at least she did something rather than running away from it all. that you shouldn't run away, ever.

shortly thereafter, when the police find kiryu and haruka, this exchange happens between him and date. here's the play by play:

date tells kiryu he can get him out of trouble with this, and that if he doesn't, he'll get life in prison; kiryu declines his help:

kiryu is so devastated (understandably) by the back to back losses of the three people closest to him that he resigns himself to life in prison, and the death-in-effect that would be. he would prefer to waste away rather than struggle through a life without them. prison was monotonous and isolating, but coming back after a decade was overwhelming, and coming back to everything being so warped and twisted, and then losing the corrupted scraps he had anyway, well. he wants to go back to sleep. he doesn't want to be in a world where everything's the same except he's on his own. better to return to safety, to die slowly in a hell he knows well than weather a new one where he has control and agency, and thus one where he has the ability to fail and to lose anything at any time. he explains to date that that loss is why he can accept his death:

date shakes him and asks him if there's really nothing left for him, no reason to keep living at all:

then echoes yumi's advice to haruka:

which makes an impression on kiryu:

date gives him a reason to live in the form of haruka, saying she'll be on her own again if he goes to jail. he hijacks kiryu's tragic protector complex to keep him alive, because she needs him, and because she's someone precious to him:

after the dust has cleared,

kiryu and date also have this exchange, where date tells him to stay away from the cops (and presumably arrest and a return to prison, the aforementioned fate akin to death), and kiryu cites haruka as his reason to stay away, one he holds to with no uncertainty (showing again that he's accepted date's logic, that his reason to keep living even when it's incredibly difficult is to care for the more vulnerable haruka). given the weight of the consequences, to me, it feels like date's telling him not to be alone with his thoughts or something. it's almost frightening:

so, what's our takeaway from kiwami?

kiryu lost everything and hit rock bottom, but he chose to fight, and to live life on his own terms, even when it got difficult. that's the narrative life lesson he had to learn to avoid repeating the events of 1995. he made that choice for haruka's sake. it's seen as growth.

and without him, haruka would've just returned to the orphanage (assuming she could make it back to sunflower at all) with no one who knew or understood what she had been through, no one to mourn with her, and no one to give her the attention, care, and protection she needs. kiryu knows what it's like to be an orphan with a limited parental figure who only checks in every so often (kazama, "aunt" yumi), and what someone will do for attention/affection from that person (via both himself and nishiki swearing up, climbing the ranks, etc. arguably haruka coming to kamurocho by herself to find "mizuki" is similar), and what it's like to lose them anyway (again, kazama, yumi). their situations parallel each others' somewhat, and that binds them further. and after losing everyone (which he blames himself for to some extent, as one can probably assume from this and 2, and something key to his arc in later games), he chooses to protect her. and this time, he won't fail. at least partially because failing would hurt him, too. he'd have nothing left again.

okay. now we get to kiwami 2.

if you forgot, the context is basically:

everybody's fighting on the roof of a building which i'm sure will not be a running theme or anything as the series goes on

there's a bomb that's about to go off and they don't know how to/can't defuse it

ryuji shot the twist villain to death, but took fatal hits to do so

sayama's like hey!! let's get out of here!!! and kiryu and ryuji are like nooo we have to settle this oughh it's punchin time and they stick her on an elevator and send her down so she doesn't have to watch

ryuji loses. sayama returns, they have a cute sibling heart to heart, and ryuji dies in her arms. sad

kiryu is in rough shape as well, and there's like 2 minutes left on the bomb's timer

here's the scene itself:

sayama tells kiryu they have to run, and kiryu says he can't. the gist is "let's run!" "you go without me" "i'm not leaving you!" "i'm in no condition to run" "i'll carry you then!!" sayama: *sees how fucked up kiryu is, realizes he's Going To Die Anyway* "ok, then i'm staying with you!" and then further bickering about that, before they give up and make out (as one does i guess)

date (he's here now) yells this at them from a helicopter:

before someone else in the helicopter tells date this:

we get this shot of haruka calling out to kiryu as the helicopter swerves away:

and kiryu and sayama have this exchange about haruka where they say they let her down, but that she'll understand:

then they hug and the bomb ticks to zero right when the credits hit. in post credits it's revealed that the twist villain defused the bomb when they weren't looking, betraying his co-villain for reasons i truthfully do not remember and am unwilling to look up. it's not about that right now.

so, how does this scene interact with the ending of the previous game?

the short answer is "badly <3" but here's the long answer:

it's about choices.

the thing about fiction is that anything you want to have happen, as a writer, can happen. it may not be effective, internally consistent, or logical, but you can write it regardless. audiences suspend their disbelief for the sake of engaging fully with your fiction, but everyone has a threshold past which they will stop being engaged in a story and either become uninvested or annoyed. writers usually have lines they're unwilling to cross as well. but in almost every story, there's at least a couple of places where they stretch reality a little to make the narrative they want happen. this is not a bad thing at all. that's how stories get told.

now, i'm gonna be real with you. i don't care about how feasible plots are like 95% of the time. it's not something i think about much, nor is it something i prioritize. i am a very character-centric media consumer, so if world building and/or plot are a bit stale or contrived, that doesn't really bother me much so long as i'm invested in the characters involved. some people can't stand plot holes or the ways musicals burst into song or whatever, and that's fine for them. but it's not something i tend to find that all that important.

this is all to say that i have a sorta affection for rgg's flavor of bullshit pulling. and it is a powerful flavor, maybe even an acquired taste, but i can and do rock with it so long as it doesn't damage the characters too much. this is why i'm not making a lengthy post howling into the void about joji kazama or the second joon-gi han or how many secret relatives there are. those things are silly and endearing and a clumsy yet heartfelt part of a series i care about very deeply. i'll joke about it, but i don't consider it much of a flaw. it's more like personality. flaws are texture, and they help a piece's identity. point is i am very, very willing and able to suspend my disbelief for these games in exchange for a good time, particularly via good characters.

(if you want another example of where i draw the line from within rgg, the answer's the YAKUZA 4 SPOILERS INCOMING rubber bullets twist, because i think 1) it's actively horrifically stupid (especially retconning a scene we SAW HAPPEN. WE SAW BLOOD ON EACH IMPACT, AND RUBBER BULLETS DON'T OFTEN BREAK SKIN THAT DEEPLY (THEIR DAMAGE IS MORE PERCUSSIVE THAN PENETRATIVE). THESE EVENTS HAPPEN IN THE SAME GAME YOU DON'T HAVE TO RETCON IT JUST REWRITE IT. OR DON'T SHOW THE HIT AT ALL SO THERE'S MORE PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY. DON'T DO THIS JUST TO HYPE UP YOUR SHITTY VILLAIN NO ONE CARES ABOUT. and 2) (a bit more importantly) i think it actively removes saejima's primary internal conflict for that game, that being his intense guilt over the 18 murders he thinks he committed, one i was invested and interested in. but this isn't a rubber bullets post.)

characters in this series walk off a lot of life threatening injuries. they survive miraculously, they escape in the nick of time, and they pull through in the end. kiryu still somehow hasn't killed anyone. almost every game in his saga ends with an "is kiryu gonna make it out this time?!?" shortly followed by a "yeah lol. lmao" postcredits reveal. kiryu fucking punches a marble statue into dust in the first game. having a story that asks you to suspend your disbelief so much and so often means that when a decision is made, it's not the writers saying, "well, this would have to happen so we are obligated/forced to write it happening" so much as "we wanted this to happen for some reason(s)," because you already know that they're not guided solely by logic. again, this is true of all writers, it's just amplified in stories like these because they've already given you so many hard mode suspension of disbelief moments (they've broken you in like leather, yeah? or like how obvious internet scams allow for self selection by being so obvious that only the most vulnerable people would fall for them. they curate an audience willing to play along with their bullshit flavor so they can tell a story that's more likely to satisfy that audience. in a good way, in a fun way! mass appeal is overrated). there is not much limit to what this series is willing to try and sell you.

so when ryuji takes lethal damage taking out the big bad, that's a choice. when he doesn't die immediately, that's a choice. when ryuji and kiryu send sayama away in the soon-to-be-forgotten elevator so they can settle this like men or whatever despite the literal actual bomb about to go off, that's a choice. when sayama comes back, that's a choice. when ryuji does die, that's a choice. when kiryu determines that he can't escape in time, that's a choice. when sayama is unwilling to leave him, that's a choice. when she says she'll carry him out and there's an elevator right fucking there and then she's like never mind i guess i won't anymore we're dying together right now kiryu like they're not gonna even try?? wouldn't distancing themselves from the blast give themselves a better shot, something that's super possible given the 2 minutes they have with that elevator??? sayama you met him like a week and a half ago why are you ready to die with him that's not a plot hole i just think that's kinda strange whatever anyway, that's a choice. when kiryu stops arguing with her so they can kiss (next to her brother's corpse), that's a choice. when date shows up, that's a choice. when the helicopter can't save them because the bomb was going to go off too soon, that's a choice. when they put haruka in that helicopter and take her away, let her only impact be reminding kiryu and sayama that they can't help her, that's a choice. when they spend their last moments talking as if they're already dead, then simply waiting, that's a choice.

they're all choices that the writers made for the characters, and we are asked to believe them for the sake of achieving the writers' vision, as with any story. the only problem is that the writers' vision here fucking blows.

i'm not saying it would be realistic for kiryu and sayama (and even ryuji) to make it out alive, but it wouldn't be out of character for the series in the slightest. kiryu is suddenly unable to power through here, and that's a choice. so, what is their vision?

put simply, i think they wanted a romantic last stand for kiryu and sayama, a tragic scene of doomed, devoted lovers. and i think they wanted an edge-of-your-seat fake out death. they wanted spectacle.

here's how some specific choices they made undermine all that shit we talked about earlier from the first game.

once again, kiryu is called by date to live, to pick himself up and keep going, no matter how impossible the odds are. he's even reminded by haruka's presence, his one anchor in keeping himself going. the growth he had in the parallel scene in the previous game is challenged, and he fails.

it's not enough this time. and that's a choice.

it's also one i can't think of a good reason for, and that's the real kicker.

characters can have developmental backslide just like people do, and if they're given good reason for it, it can be just as, if not far more compelling that purely linear growth (i am a chimera ant arc enjoyer, and that's all i'll say. sorry if you haven't seen hunter x hunter. uhh. i am also a zuko avatar enjoyer if that helps). but i can't think of anything that happened in that game that would cause this from a character perspective. if anything, kiryu should be less likely to do this intentionally. he's spent around a year raising haruka, and a year has passed since he lost his loved ones. at the very least, the pain should be more dull, though it is established through an early nightmare sequence that his ass is (justifiably) not over it yet. given that their deaths were the initial motivation for his willingness to rot forever, theoretically, he should be more motivated to stay alive than before now that he's got more investment and stability in his life outside of them, particularly when it comes to haruka, his reason for surviving. and if the ongoing nature of the trauma was the motivator for this, then they should've had it affect him more past that nightmare scene (it really serves more as a recap of the last game than anything else) so it didn't come out of nowhere. so the reminder of the lesson that saved his life and then guided it for at least a year afterwards, one that the whole resolution of the previous game relied on heavily falls flat for... some reason.

i think this is a good time to mention that, generally speaking, you don't write arbitrary choices into characters. sure, people in real life are often sporadic, but when analyzing fictional characters, every choice is filed into a portfolio of characterization that can and should be analyzed. going for pure realism can obfuscate their development, motivations, themes, etc. their choices and reactions may be unorthodox, but they must be internally consistent. this is very related to how i view plot contrivance as well. characters drive the plot, not the other way around. stories are about the ways characters affect their worlds/lives and vice versa, and they're the human face to the themes and ideas the writers are trying to explore and express. maybe my stance on this seems hypocritical. i don't know if it is. but to me, plot issues are usually a matter of engagement and investment, while character issues are a matter of substance.

i hope this doesn't feel patronizing explaining all of this, but i want you guys to know where i'm coming from in my analysis. starting at my base philosophy on writing is the easiest way to do that, i feel. defining the terms of the debate, and all that. anyway

and i mean, look. they survive because "it was defused the whole time we just didn't see it happen", so it's not like narrative tension or realism or whatever was THAT big of a priority overall. if it was gonna be a cop-out anyway, they should'nt have ruined kiryu's development too, yeah?. and sayama fucks off to america after this game anyway, so it's not like the doomed lovers thing had much payoff or meaning after this one (though you could argue that's more an issue with yakuza 3 than yk2, which has some merit to it). which means that they chose to sacrifice kiryu's prior development and internal logic for the sake of cheap tension for their finale that was both kinda illogical in and of itself (the elevator!! the elevator!!!) and a romantic climax that neither required nor really benefitted from this staging. (like. you coulda had them make out and then get saved by date, or kiss on the elevator in a "it's moving, but will we make it in time??" way or whatever. look i'm not saying those are great options either but they're SOMETHING okay. it would remove/reduce the amount of time wasted on characters sitting around with their thumbs up their asses for no reason in this finale).

instead the message of this finale is that, actually, sometimes it is impossible to change your circumstances and fight for your own way out of an awful situation. and what should you do about this unfortunate truth? uh. die! i guess. it's the exact opposite of the encouraging, optimistic message of the last game. zetsubou chou pride my ass.

note: i feel i should mention that when suicidality is brought up within the series (particularly in substories), it is always something someone has to overcome themselves through wanting it badly enough. they simply need the inspiration and the motivation to keep going. it's arguably treated as a moral obligation. frankly, the series is broadly very meritocratic (<- bad) when it comes to this topic (and others, but that's a Whole Other Thing. see akiyama's weird loan shark tests as well). sheer will and resolve is enough to conquer any problem, be it physical or mental/emotional, and it's irresponsible to act/feel otherwise. this is the logic the games operating under, and kiryu is often the mouthpiece for this bootstrap-pulling "tough love" sentiment. so when kiryu "chooses" to die, yet faces no emotional fallout from date, haruka, or anyone else, it feels very out of place. it's not just an odd choice; it's specifically, once again, an odd choice to make in context of the game/series/character it appears in.

kiryu's just like eh, haruka'll watch her only family die right as she gets some sense of tentative stability and lets her guard down after a devastating month the year prior (and a relatively dismal upbringing before that) that we trauma bonded over. sure, she likely came to view me as the one who would stay no matter what, who was too strong to be taken out, who she could always rely on, and so i know that dying would hurt her immensely, but she's smart enough to know it'd happen eventually. her eventual recovery means it's okay for me to do this (somehow, in a way it wasn't in the first game). it's an excuse within the narrative's logic, and one it is uncritical of simply because it's kiryu. he gets a pass.

and i think with the previously mentioned passive suicidality and general series-long mental health issues kiryu displays (i mean. yakuza 5's literally his depression arc), this could be retroactively seen as an interesting choice, like a piece in that particular narrative. i don't even dislike that viewing, especially in terms of fan approach. but (assuming this went down the same in yakuza 2), they likely didn't have that in mind. all they had then was the first game and the movie. and they took the first game's Entire Message and contradicted it for nothing but a scene they wanted to have happen because it'd be suspenseful and/or emotional (without actually doing the work to earn it). and they're not fans trying to analyze his character, they're the ones making choices for him. and they chose to massacre my boy. and if the subject of kiryu's mental health was a priority of theirs, why didn't they explore that? haruka and date's feelings on him not resisting and their words not being enough (whether that blame is justified by the narrative or not (it shouldn't be btw)), the uncomfortable drifting that resigning yourself to death and living afterwards anyway often brings, literally any conversation about it besides the minimal shit we get post credits of date being like "did you know about the bomb not having a fuse?" which like. bad answer either way (which is why they weren't straightforward about it, the cowards). you can't just be like "oh uh. idk he just gave up this time. yeah he was gonna die on purpose for some reason. good thing the bomb was fake lol" and then pack up and go home!! that's stupid!! any merit the idea of kiryu dying by suicide in this scene and in this way could have had from a character-based perspective loses its weight because 1. it didn't happen (for kinda stupid reasons), which makes it fall flat and 2. no one is really affected by the fact that it almost did, including him. they sacrificed his ass and replaced it with nothing, even when there could have been interesting outcomes to it.

so the narrative effectively chose to kill him by making the situation impossible, and this impossibility is ultimately arbitrary, given the series' usual approach to miraculous, illogical escapes. that, or the choice to stay was up to kiryu and sayama, one that 1. doesn't make sense and is actively regressive in context of kiryu's arc in the only other game in the series (as well as his whole saga in retrospect) and 2. one that contradicts how the series sees/treats resignation to death/death by suicide in all other contexts without being addressed, challenged, or condemned in ways it would in all other contexts. because they don't want you to think about it like that. they want you to think he (and the narrative) had no choice, that it made sense to do that. but it didn't. it doesn't.

and look, honestly? if i was bleeding out and had like 2 minutes to live, there's a non zero chance i'd say fuck it and kiss a girl too. i get it. but i am (and this is crucial) not a fucking yakuza character. and i'm certainly not kiryu kazuma.

tl;dr (basically just rephrasing the second to last main paragraph)

there are not sufficient character reasons for kiryu and sayama not trying to escape. additionally, because the narrative regularly facilitates even less likely escapes, it's not so constrained to logic and reality that it couldn't pull this one off. the choice to let their situation be impossible this one time was a cheap and arbitrary way of forcing a scene they thought would be cool and dramatic, and in doing so they chose to cannibalize a key emotional note of the previous finale (namely kiryu's mission to dedicate his life to protecting haruka) for hollow last minute stakes-upping in this one. it is then completely disregarded anyway. god damn.

#got so into this post that i used tumblr on my laptop for the first time to surpass mobile's image limit #i also added transcriptions in the alt text (which i should do more often)#actually thinking about it in the movie kiryu teaches haruka that lesson about stumbling on.. and she's the one to ask to follow him... hm.#just interesting given that the movie came out before 2. i don't think it makes much of a difference to the post it's just neat to me #one of my favorite parts of writing this was skimming through a bunch of yk1/yk2 cutscenes and noticing how often kiryu pats haruka's head #it happens a lot more than i remembered and it's very sweet to me. get bonked little one <3 #another good thing was realizing you can edit tags when you're not on mobile.... fucking life changing. i have lost hours to mobile tag #editing and i'm not even kidding about that #speaking of editing this one took like 6 hours.. my brother used “yakuza autism” (verb) for me earlier and it's so true. source: this post #i did have a short break to get food bc i hadn't eaten all day but that's mostly because i woke up at 3pm. anyway #also if you like kiwami 2's ending you're not even remotely alone. i looked at the comment sections of the scene comps and ppl love it #and more power to you!! i like it when people enjoy things. and tbh i DO have feelings that i'm supposed to about that ending #i just also have feelings you're not supposed to. like. anger. i guess.#rgg #ryu ga gotoku #skrunk meta #aww yeah it's a new tag babeyy #yakuza kiwami 2 #kiwami 2 #yakuza #like a dragon #yk2 #kiryu kazuma #sawamura haruka #sayama kaoru #maybe my thoughts'll change after replaying the games...? it's been like a year and a half since i beat yk2 so i am a bit fuzzy on it #yakuza kiwami spoilers #yakuza kiwami 2 spoilers

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