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Music (and movies) and queerness in Ted Lasso. Particularly in relation to Ted (and Trent)
I want to start with a line from the show that contains the word music.
“If music be the food of love, play on. Give me excess of it.” Said by Mae to Ted in a scene where a few moments later Trent walks up to him after leaving his date to go talk to him. It’s a quote from the VERY queer Shakespeare play “Twelfth Night”. The line implies that the speaker wants to be fed more, to the point of it making them sick so that they won’t desire, love in this case, anymore. Because he’s unhappily in love with someone who he can’t have (Michelle?). BUT he falls in love with someone else later. And in the context of Ted Lasso, this line just so happens to be said right before they show us that Trent is there. Ted also answers Mae, not by asking if she’s asking him if he wants more but “If that’s your fancy way of asking if I want another one, you guessed right”.Another love?And according to James Lance, it was when he was on his way to film this scene that he found out that Trent is gay and that he is “with that guy” as he himself puts it. A man who has a moustache very similar to Ted’s and wears similar clothes.
(Also, this happens in season 2 episode 7. In season 3, episode 7 Ted talks about the red string/thread of fate myth while Trent wears a red bracelet and they are connected by red several times and season 3, episodes 7 and 11 are connected via “You’ve got Mail”, the opening scene in episode 7 being a “tribute” to the movie, and there are other smaller references. And the team, and Trent, watching the movie in episode 11. AndTrent also wears the bracelet in episode 11, an episode I’ll bring up later in this post).
Now, let us get to the music.
Bruce Springsteen
If you google “Bruce Springsteen queer” you get a lot of results discussing queerness in his songs and so on, so to put him in this post is a must.
Bruce Springsteen is brought up by Dottie in season 3 episode 11. She tells Trent about the time Ted got onstage and danced with Bruce Springsteen (which turns out to be a lie) but the connection to Springsteen is still there, because Ted did get onstage with a Bruce Springsteen cover band and sang with them. So, we’ve established a connection between Ted (and Trent) and Bruce Springsteen.
Let’s connect it to something else that happened in the episode. They watch “You’ve Got Mail” starring Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan (I’ll come back to “You’ve Got Mail” later, the important part here is Tom Hanks). Ted states that the superior Nora Ephron/Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan movie is “Sleepless in Seattle”,a movie about a reporter falling for a single dad simply because of the way he talks about things and what he talks about. He brings the movie up twice, once to say that it’s superior and once telling someone to watch it. Now what does “Sleepless in Seattle” have to do with Bruce Springsteen? “Sleepless in Seattle” came out in 1993, as did “Philadelphia” a movie about a gay man played by Tom Hanks. Springsteen made a song called “Streets of Philadelphia”, specifically for this movie. A bit farfetched? Eh, perhaps, but I’m including it anyway.
So, in this episode Trent, a gay man, is told by Ted’s mum that Ted once went onstage with Bruce Springsteen and that’s the story he needs to confirm straight away. He practically skips towards Ted’s office to ask about it. Why that story? Surely she told him about other things too. And he heard the stories she told the team. But this was the story he was excited to get confirmed. A story about Ted’s connection to an artist that has several queer connections and who can also be connected to something else that is brought up in the episode.
Queen
Let’s get the obvious out of the way. Their lead singer was queer.
And I talked about Fat Bottomed Girls and Queen/Freddie/Brian in THIS post. And I talk a little bit about the connection between Ted and Freddie Mercury in THIS post.
Queen has been used a lot throughout “Ted Lasso”, a lot more than I remembered. When I went back to look at the soundtrack for season 1 and 2, I found quite a few Queen songs. I also discovered that two of the trailers for season 2 had Queen songs in the background. “Under Pressure” (which also features David Bowie, another queer artist) and “We Will Rock You”.
Ted talks about having watched Queen at Live Aid on TV when he was younger, in season 2, episode 8 (that episode is called “Man City”, Ted mentions both Queen and Freddie Mercury. Season 3 episode 11 is called “Mom City” and Freddie Mercury is brought up again and a Queen song plays.)
“Tear It Up” plays in season 2, episode 2
“We Are the Champions” plays in season 2, episode 9
“Fat Bottomed Girls” are both mentioned and played in season 3, episode 11
And, while not a Queen song, “Fought & Lost” by Sam Ryder featuring Brian May is also played in season 3, episode 11.
But let’s focus on “Fat Bottomed Girls”. Now, I’ve already talked about it in THIS post, that I also linked above. So, I won’t go over all that again. But a little recap, “Fat Bottomed Girls” is linked to “Bicycle Race” which is sometimes seen as a metaphor for being bi. They were both on the same single and they reference each other. The song is brought up by Higgins when he tells Keeley and Rebecca that Freddie, when he briefly owned Richmond in 1980, tried to make that song Richmond’s song but that it didn’t work. Rebecca then brings up that her dad went to art school with Freddie and that according to him if you would have asked Freddie what his greatest talent was, he would have said “flipping straights”.
We’ve already established Ted’s connection to Queen. And we’ve heard Ted refer to himself as straight just a few episodes ago (episode 7, and I’ve already pointed out the connection between episodes 7 and 11, this is another connection) now we get to hear Rebecca say that Freddie Mercury’s biggest talent was “flipping straights”. Ted is, as far as I know, and I’ve checked, the only person who refers to himself as straight, in the whole show. Not a single other character does that. Once in the Christmas special, once in season 3, episode 7, that’s two times. Will the rule of three apply here? Will he say that he’s straight a third time or will he subvert expectations or if you will, flip the script and say that he’s something else?
Dolly Parton
Trent has worn a Dolly Parton shirt twice. Dolly Parton is a queer icon. In season 3, episode 11 Beard feels the need to call dibs on Dolly’s part in “Islands in the Stream” at karaoke. Implying that Ted perhaps snags that part for himself a lot of the time. Ted then walks away singing “Islands in the Stream”. Yet another queer connection between Trent and Ted via music.
Harry Nilsson/ (Judy Garland)
Back to “You’ve got Mail”. The last scene of “You’ve got mail” ends with Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan meeting up and they kiss while Harry Nilsson’s cover of “Somewhere over the Rainbow” plays in the background. We’re shown that scene, not just by witnessing the characters watching it, but by it filling our own screen for a while. “Somewhere over the Rainbow” is of course from “The Wizard of Oz” originally, sung by Judy Garland. A queer icon. The connection to “The Wizard of Oz” and Ted Lasso has been brought up before. But in this episode, it’s very front and centre. Ted is standing at “The Wizard of Oz” pinball machine, staring at the spinning house. And of course, Ted’s connection to Kansas is always there. And it’s brought up in a very important way this episode, with his mother more or less telling him he should go home to Kansas.
So, we have a well-established connection between Ted and Kansas and “The Wizard of Oz”. Let’s talk more about Judy Garland, Dorothy, the original singer of “Somewhere over the Rainbow”. As I mentioned above, Judy Garland was and is a queer icon. And “The Wizard of Oz” was and is a big part of the queer community. Then we have the “Friend of Dorothy” euphemism, a way to recognise other queer people, and it’s strongly associated with Judy Garland’s Dorothy. In episode 11 we are introduced to Ted’s mother, Dottie, which is a nickname/shortening of Dorothy. Another very clear queer connection to Ted.
And let us also look at James Lance who has said that there is a story arc for Trent’s shirts. And he wore a t-shirt with Dorothy’s ruby slippers to an event that is connected to Ted Lasso. And when asked why he was wearing that shirt, why he chose to honour Dorothy. It feels like he’s deflecting when he says “Well, every good character’s got to have a good pair of shoes, right. And these are surely, surely,the best pair of shoes in showbiz. So, you know, they get their own t-shirt. There aren’t many shoes to do that.” That’s suspicious. And we now know that James has had a lot of input into Trent’s costume, with him suggesting things and getting a thumbs up a lot of the time. He clearly thinks that clothes are important and can send a message. And he chose to wear a Dorothy shirt to a red carpet. When we now know that the eleventh episode of season three had several heavy references to “The Wizard of Oz”.
And to go back to Harry Nilsson. A song sung by him was on the soundtrack for Midnight Cowboy, starring Dustin Hoffman and Jon Voight, a queer movie. (And let’s remember that Trent himself said that Dustin Hoffman would probably play him in a movie).
Honourable mention
Mumford & Sons/Marcus Mumford
Why would I add Mumford & Sons and Marcus Mumford? Because Marcus Mumford made the theme song to Ted Lasso and the instrumental songs for the soundtrack, they’ve also used both Mumford & Sons and Marcus Mumford songs in the show. And the band have a connection to Jason Sudeikis. He was in the official music video for Mumford & Sons’ song “Hopeless Wanderer”, inthat video he clearly plays a version of Marcus, and he kisses another man in it. I think that deserves an honourable mention.
So, to sum it all up, there is queer subtext in the music and the artists that they mention and play in Ted Lasso, and these are just the ones that I personally can connect to Ted (and Ted/Trent). I don’t know if it is a coincidence, but I feel like there is way too much to just be a coincidence. To borrow part of Trent’s line “Through thousands of imperceptible moments, all leading to their inevitable conclusion.” Number four, that doesn’t even matter (but it actually does), LOVE. Queer love.
#ted lasso#ted lasso spoilers#tedependent#trent crimm#ted/trent#ted x trent#nicole watches stuff#I really hope this post makes sense#this post can be summed up with the words:#started making it had a breakdown... bon appétit#I'm sorry to say that I've literally gone insane#just look at this post#I didn't even mean to make this post#I was just going to make a little gifset about the times they've had Queen in the episodes#because I'm a fan of Queen#and then I fell down the rabbit hole#and I ended up with this#and then I thought hey let's go out with a bang you know#if it truly is the last ever episode of ted lasso next week then let's have some fun#the more I looked the more everything connected#like the things that happen in season 2 and 3 episode 7#also discovered that in one of the trailers for season 2 they have a shot of trent smiling at ted in the press room#a shot that isn't in the episode#so yeah... um...#I went deep#I really hope you all get some enjoyment out of this post#I put more effort into this post than I did when I tried (and failed) to write a researched paper at uni (that paper made me drop out again
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the funniest meltdown ive ever had was in college when i got so overstimulated that i could Not speak, including over text. one of my friends was trying to talk me through it but i was solely using emojis because they were easier than trying to come up with words so he started using primarily emojis as well just to make things feel balanced. this was not the Most effective strategy... until. he tried to ask me "you okay?" but the way he chose to do that was by sending "👉🏼👌🏼❓" and i was so shocked by suddenly being asked if i was dtf that i was like WHAT???? WHAT DID YOU JUST SAY TO ME?????????? and thus was verbal again
#yeehaw#1k#5k#10k#posts that got cursed. blasted. im making these tag updates after... 19 hours?#also i have been told it should say speech loss bc nonverbal specifically refers to the permanent state. did not know that!#unfortunately i fear it is so far past containment that even if i edited it now it would do very little. but noted for future reference#edit 2: nvm enough ppl have come to rb it from me directly that i changed the wording a bit. hopefully this makes sense#also. in case anyone is curious. though i doubt anyone who is commenting these things will check the original tags#1) my friend did not do this on purpose in any way. it was not intended to distract me or to hit on me. im a lesbian hes a gay man. cmon now#he felt very bad about it afterwards. i thought it was hilarious but it was very embarrassed and apologetic#2) “why didn't he use 🫵🏼?” didn't exist yet. “why didn't he use 🆗?” dunno! we'd been using a lot of hand emojis. 👌🏼 is an ok sign#like it makes sense. it was just a silly mixup. also No i did not invent 👉🏼👌🏼 as a gesture meaning sex. do you live under a rock#3) nonspeaking episodes are a recurring thing in my life and have been since i was born. this is not a quirky one-time thing#it is a pervasive issue that is very frustrating to both myself and the people i am trying to communicate with. in which trying to speak is#extremely distressing and causes very genuine anguish. this post is not me making light of it it's just a funny thing that happened once#it's no different than if i post about a funny thing that happened in conjunction w a physical disability. it's just me talking abt my life#i don't mind character tags tho. those can be entertaining. i don't know what any of you are talking about#Except the ppl who have said this is pego/ryu or wang/xian. those people i understand and respect#if you use it as a writing prompt that's fine but send it to me. i want to see it#aaaand i think that's it. everyday im tempted to turn off rbs on it. it hasn't even been a week
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While I do think anon was rude, I do think it's pretty shitty to set up all this stuff you were going to add the au and then just drop it. It's disappointing. Definitely unfollowing.
Bye.
#ask me#anon#once AGAIN.#I am not dropping anything#the au is not getting cancelled. more than likely i'm gonna take a break from it until i find motivation again#But I've been drawing the AU for half a fucking year#In that time I've only drawn 5 things that aren't mlp related#I'm getting tired and my last few posts didn't do as well as I'd hoped#And I'm not about to burn myself out on mlp au art even if I really do love making it#I'm still gonna make comics. I have a bunch of ideas.#Tulli and I still wanna do the limited run merch shop#Discord is still coming. Sunset is still coming. Sombra is still coming. I have so many ideas#But I need to do something else for my own sake. Did you know I was supposed to get the background 6 designs done by now#But I didn't because I'm TIRED#I've been keeping myself on a schedule to keep content pumping despite travel and school and family and I'm tired#what i'm getting isn't matching what i'm giving and that's nobody's fault. i'm not frustrated at anyone. a slump was bound to happen#drawing the au was fun until it become my Thing. Because when your Thing––your identity––starts to faulter#it can really make you freak out#And that's not healthy for the project or for myself. I need to find the fun again and I'm sure I will#I'm really appreciative of everyone's support in my inbox and replies it really does mean a lot especially given that about 2/3 of my#followers followed for mlp. But if you're gonna react to me saying “i'm gonna cool down on mlp art and draw my own stuff” with “i'm#disappointed in you." then Leave! I think it's good you're unfollowing#you are not obligated to stick by my side! But don't act like I'm doing you a disservice by turning my attention elsewhere#I didn't promise anyone anything and I definitely didn't say I'm breaking any promises.
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youtube
okay so i finally finished it... allow me to present a comprehensive, chronological compilation of miles and alex singing *THAT* moment in standing next to me for the whole eycte tour 🌟
this video took me the better part of two months to make, and cost me a not insignificant part of my sanity (related: i may never want to hear this song again), so yeah... i hope you enjoy 😅
#also feel free to tell me which performance you think is the most insane#i mean#they're all pretty insane#but some of them???#fucking HELL 🫠#it's really quite an insight seeing the way it all unfolds chronologically too#in fact#it only makes it even more insane#btw there are almost certainly mistakes or typos in the video that i didn't catch#i apologise in advance#making videos for youtube is not something i have a lot of practice in 🙈#(it was WAAAAAAY too long for tumblr which. idk. really says it all doesn't it 🤦♀️)#milex#the last shadow puppets#tlsp#miles kane#alex turner#arctic monkeys#milex vid#lulu posts#Youtube
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I really truly, from the bottom of my heart, hate you bitches so much, because on the tiktok of literally COCK AND BALL jokes w brittany broski, there were a few notes/messages like this:
And I KNOW you don't think anyone's going to check. You had someone go into your askbox and say "hiii brittany broski is shitty about palestine she's really ignorant :/" and you went oh omg I didn't know!! thanks for telling me!
So I checked! This is in reference to her talking in her podcast, because people were asking why she hadn't done any big press statements about Palestine, you didn't retweet this or that, you must not care, don't you care, what's your stance, etc etc please say more
OKAY COOL. So what's going on there? What did Brittany say on her podcast? Is she a Bad Person? Can I have some transcript, please?
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"Hey guys, before we get into this week's episode, I want to talk to you about the ongoing and prolonged suffering and loss of life in Gaza, in Israel, and the oppression of Palestinian people widespread. I don't ever want it to be a question that I would ever not be against the oppression of any group of people, that I would ever stand on the side of the oppressor."
"There was a lot of fear of misusing my platform." ... "I will admit that I was nervous to talk about it, because I don't want to say the wrong thing. And this is too fucking serious of an issue to misspeak, or to spread misinformation, or to speak over or for someone." ... "So I want to take a moment on my biggest platform- which is this podcast, to say that I stand with the people of Palestine, I stand for the liberation of Palestinian people." ... "Every day, to log on to social media, and be just inundated with graphic, unimaginable violence, and loss, and grief, it's just--There are no words." ... "And I feel helpless. That's part of it too, when you feel helpless, the last thing you want to do is talk to people about it-- but visibility is a resource in and of itself. And I can offer that."
... "The outpouring of rage and passion online, and anger at what's happening, I would argue needs to be dedicated and focused on our elected officials. We live in a democracy- albeit an inherently flawed one- we live in a democracy where we have elected officials who were elected and put in power to represent us, and if we feel misrepresented, if we feel underrepresented in foreign affairs? These officials have public phone numbers and emails. There are scripts available online to express your disdain and your rage, and unfortunately that's one of the only ways we'll see actionable change."
"If you expected more from me, it's a terrible feeling- but I don't want to center myself, this needs to be all eyes on Palestine right now, where the real activism is happening.
I would encourage you to follow journalists that are on the ground, people who are in Gaza, we need to be listening to them.
I would also hope that we're at a point in this conversation where I can express my desire to stand in solidarity with the people of Palestine and that NOT meaning or suggesting or condoning anti-Semitism of any kind. There's a rise of anti-Semitism and islamophobia in the United States and it's just-- it's disgusting, and it's scary, so I want that to be said too. I just wanted to share that I am experiencing part of this collective sense of helplessness and hopelessness-- but it DOESN'T HAVE to be hopeless.
I'm going to include a phone number in the description of this episode where, if you don't know the name of your senators or your Congressman, it's never too late to learn, and you can reach out to them."
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Hm. What a bitch!! Yeah, just so ignorant and uncaring. Obviously she's not keeping up with anything. Should've retweeted more shit ig!
#sergle.txt#I will turn off reblogs on this so fucking fast I swear to god. I have a gun. I needed to complain about this#up in my notes and my asks bc you already didn't like somebody and you believe what ppl say on anon indiscriminately.#so what I'm hearing is she didn't talk about it enough / didn't put out statements soon enough. I see.#basically a criminal offense. she should get the electric chair ig#god I mean. if my thing was comedy and I had a big audience I don't think I'd know how/when/if to do basically a#Press Conference on Literal Genocide or if I should not make it about me and my thoughts? but do shit in the small ways I can#what do you even say... I think what she said here makes sense. but maybe I'm not reading it with enough bad faith#like oh my god. OH MY GOD#so no I'm not gonna delete the clips I posted what. the fuck are we talking about#''she was frustrated on ig stories that ppl were messaging her to put out a statement'' yeah... yeah. frustration. in response to so much#bad faith directed at you. hundreds of thousands of people all saying shit At You like it all rests on you#and being told to say these words so if you say them they will be empty. myeah what a bitch basically#I personally would not experience a human emotion in response to this.
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ALL OF US STRANGERS (2023) dir. ANDREW HAIGH
#filmedit#filmgifs#movieedit#moviegifs#All of Us Strangers#aousedit#filmtvdaily#filmtvcentral#cinemapix#fyeahmovies#dailyflicks#mine*#mygifs#movies*#I can't believe this is done. and you won't believe how long it took me to make it. insane... because it's just a scene#I didn't even use different fonts. or a cool template. or transitions... it was a single scene... but look... I made captures for 10 gifs#and things kept happening and I kept finding little gestures and beautiful things and I just couldn't keep them out the gifs#I mean look at Harry and that slow realization. please look at the glow around his shoulders at the beginning#and how ethereal and out of this world he already is AND THEN when Adam says 'I found you' he becomes more... real and present!#and those eyes and the intensity of that 'you're here' and their eyes and faces and smiles and how Harry's desperate but Adam calms him dow#and his voice when he asks 'how come no one found me?' the realization that people didn't care to check on him. it screamed to my soul#I haven't stopped thinking about that scene since the moment I first watched it#honestly... I wish I could live in this scene forever#now this is a super long post and I know it won't get many notes and it was surely made before... but I needed to make this for myself...#so here it is :) I'm tired but I love it#GOD the way Harry goes full baby when Adam caresses his cheek and he SMILES LIKE THAT! AHHHHHHH!#*runs down the hill screaming*
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Kung Fu Panda 4 - The Movie
The last really, really long discussion post (for now).
Major spoilers ahead!
This review is full of spoilers, so please refrain from reading through it until you've watched KFP4. I would highly suggest doing so, as I want everyone to form their own opinions without my influence. The movie has its flaws (some of which admittedly being a bit distracting), but it's a fun film that has things to offer.
Kung Fu Panda 4 is a fun movie (take that as you will) that takes its audience on an action-packed, surprisingly funny, yet relatively contained adventure on which Po doesn't really do much. It's an inconsequential, safe sequel that doesn't really hurt the franchise but adds close to nothing.
I had a good time watching the movie. It was obviously produced with its theater experience in mind and the action scenes especially reflected that priority. The humor was actually funny sometimes and I enjoyed Po and Zhen's dynamic. During the film, I was able to put most (most!) of my grievances aside and take the movie for what it is. I've discovered that the best way to watch KFP4 is with low expectations and an open mind.
I have a lot of things to say about KFP4, both complaints and compliments (though the former might be taking the forefront in this review), and I hope this review can help those of you who have seen the movie organize your thoughts. I've been having a lot of trouble with that specific aspect of things myself. Those who get it get it.
With that said, let's get into my full review of KFP4! I've been waiting for nearly 2 years to write this and I'm so excited to share every single thought.
I'm going to follow the format of my first discussion post and curate a bulleted list of my thoughts, followed by an analysis of each of these points. Keep in mind that everything I say is IMO and this is more of a rant post than anything else.
Here are my main points:
The Furious Five's role is comically minuscule in the context of the film. Their actions are inconsequential and add nothing to the plot (a confirmed last-minute add), and they have 30~ seconds of screen time. Shifu is also largely irrelevant.
Mr. Ping and Li's presence has little to no effect on the movie (though I won't complain too much because they were pretty fun to watch and this movie has bigger problems). In almost any scenario, I am adamantly against having characters present that don't add anything to the narrative; however, Mr. Ping is an exception. I love Mr. Ping. James Hong is a gem.
Zhen's screen time is not utilized well and her character is underdeveloped. She definitely wasn't annoying, but I didn't find her either compelling or funny enough to warrant the screen time she was given, especially considering it wasn't used to establish a backstory/strong motives. This makes me feel bad for the character because the movie kind of screwed her out of any substantial development.
The Chameleon, while complimented greatly by Viola Davis, is an underwhelming villain. Viola Davis is amazing in this film and I would suggest watching it for her performance if for nothing else, but the Chameleon is underwhelming considering the super cool concept behind the character.
The film feels very rushed. Apologies to those who disagree, but I think the pacing is atrocious and the final fight is anticlimactic. The movie felt like a word-vomit with no discernible intermissions that stops abruptly when the film ends.
I felt as though Po didn't change/grow as a person and the audience never had a chance to either bond with or relate to his character. His internal struggle is kept to a minimum and we don't spend a moment alone with him as an audience, which is disorienting and distracting. Watching the film felt like running into an old friend at the store who's too in a rush to have a real conversation.
The action scenes were strong with few exceptions. Creative art direction was utilized and I thought the martial arts choreography was entertaining and dynamic. I love the color palette of the film and many scenes were very impressive visually.
With my main points established, I do believe it's ranting time. Strap in, folks.
Let's start strong with the Furious Five: I'm gutted. Chagrined, despondent, crestfallen, etc.
The lack of the Furious Five negatively affects KFP4 so much, because not only does their absence hurt the atmospheric integrity of KFP as a franchise, it also forces KFP4 to bring in a slew of different characters—all while still noncommittally including the FF at the very end because I believe the marketing team required it—that clog up the cast a bit. It all goes to show how important strong, established side characters are.
The Furious Five are side characters, but the role of "side character" does not equate to being irrelevant, expendable, or exchangeable. I recognize that the Furious Five aren't super developed as characters beyond a handful of lines that allude to traits sprinkled sparingly among the members; however, I believe that the tiny bits of development we have been given have proved impactful in the past. Tigress's development in KFP2 is a prime example of how much narratively conscious changes (however small they may be) can positively affect these movies.
Because of limited runtimes, the Furious Five often operate as more of a singular unit than five individuals. Even so, I don't think discarding them is valid. They're so important to the KFP universe (to Po's universe!) and not having them with him feels so wrong. The Furious Five are fully integral to the heart of Kung Fu Panda, which is why I believe a lot of those who have seen the new movie have expressed something feeling "off" or something being missing.
I agree with this sentiment. To me, KFP4 didn't feel like a KFP movie. I don't need a Furious Five spin-off movie and I can be fully content with a KFP5 centered around Po's journey as an individual as was intended from the beginning, but he can't carry an entire movie on his back. As strong as he is in every sense of the word, he is only one character. He's the centerpiece of the franchise, but a centerpiece can only go so far without the rest of the design, so to speak.
For me, the Furious Five's absence is one of this film's biggest faults. It's huge and glaring. I know I'm not the only one who feels this way, either, because the friends with whom I saw the film refused to talk about any other aspect of the movie after seeing it. Seeing them at the end was better than nothing, of course, but it was a disappointing culmination after eight years of waiting.
That all is to say I feel robbed. Despite all of this, though, I understand that there were reasons why the Furious Five weren't included in the movie. I don't believe the production team would exclude the Furious Five unless they weren't given a choice.
Shifu and Po's dynamic continues to be thoroughly delightful but their interactions are short and simplified. I would have loved to see more of them in this film, especially considering the extreme relevance of teacher-student relationships in KFP4. I (somewhat) digress, though, because the idea of Shifu having to live at the Jade Palace with only Po for an extended period of time is hilarious enough on its own. Maybe that's what the short film is about!
The comedy is odd but has some jokes that stand out. Po maintains a healthy relationship with his inner sass, which I think makes him more fun to watch and kind of eradicates the man-child verdict. Some jokes don't land, of course, but I genuinely thought KFP4 had some funny moments. Mr. Ping was consistently awesome and Po had some good lines sprinkled throughout the film.
As for Mr. Ping, he and Li Shan are the subjects of the film's B-plot as they follow Po to Juniper City out of shared concern for their son's safety. In my mind, they don't add anything to the story that couldn't have been brought about by other characters, but they had their moments of being entertaining. I enjoyed their silliness and thought they had a cute dynamic if nothing else.
Speaking of other characters, I want to discuss KFP4's deuteragonist and why I genuinely feel bad about the way her character was treated.
I want to let it be known that I'm still not on board with Po passing the Dragon Warrior torch to another character. While I agree that his arc is now calling for him to have a student, I disagree with the notion of him retiring from his DW role.
As I stated in my first discussion post:
Didn’t the initial significance and nuance of the title come from the fact that there is only one person who can be the Dragon Warrior, because the concept of the “Dragon Warrior” isn’t so much a title as it is Po himself? The universe (Oogway) must choose the Dragon Warrior because they are a singular being of legend. It is one person, and that person is Po. Wasn’t the point of the first film that the title ultimately doesn’t really matter because there is no “secret ingredient,” so to speak? The title doesn’t actually give Po anything. “It’s just you,” Po says, and that was the resolution.
When it comes to Zhen as a character, contrary to what I predicted I would think of her, I thought she was okay. While I was still a bit distracted by how out-of-place her design looks, I wasn't truly annoyed by her at any point and she and Po had some cute moments. Even so, I think their relationship could have been a bit more refined and developed.
While it's evident that Po and Zhen are meant to have a teacher-student/mentor-apprentice dynamic, I think their relationship feels half-baked. There were parallels that contradicted one another and ended up being confusing come the film's conclusion, and the nature of their relationship seems to vacillate depending on the scene. Additionally, the strength of their bond goes from zero to one hundred within thirty-ish minutes and left me with a bit of whiplash.
We're shown that Po and Zhen care about one another, but we're never shown why. They have a brief conversation during which they bond over being orphans, and Zhen says at one point, "You're actually a good guy," but that's it. This obvious lack of development is a bit disorienting because we're later led to believe that Zhen and Po care very deeply for one another when there's almost nothing to back it up.
A scene that sticks out to me when discussing this is when Zhen attack-hugs Po in a way that explicitly mirrors Tigress's hug from KFP2. This happens around the beginning of the third act, and while it had the potential to be an endearing moment, I think it fell flat.
The impact of Tigress's hug was brought on by her character's hardcore nature and reputation of being heartless, further strengthened with the knowledge that she was hugging Po (which was obviously way outside her comfort zone) as a show of companionship and fundamental understanding. Tigress hugged Po because he needed someone to recognize his strive for closure.
Zhen's hug had little to no impact because she had no reason to do it and it didn't indicate growth. She hugs Po because she's sorry for betraying him and doesn't want him to be killed by the Chameleon, but neither of these things are newly-established via this hug; we have already gathered by now that Zhen regrets betraying Po and doesn't want him to get hurt.
The hug is far from the movie's weakest point, but I think it's unnecessary given the context. I'm big on hugs in movies (an underutilized form of platonic affection, in my opinion), but it didn't fit here. I don't hate it, and I see it as an honest effort to bring emotionality to Po and Zhen's relationship, but it seems arbitrary.
Zhen and Po's relationship has a lot of potential and I'd be open to seeing more of them in the future, but I think some more thoughtful development needs to occur before I can humor it further. Even so, I can see myself featuring Zhen in some future post-KFP4 one-shots—sparingly, of course, because we have a lot of Furious Five content to compensate for.
Overall, they had a cute dynamic and some sweet moments but I'm not attached. I'm on board with Po having a student but I think their relationship needs a lot more development, something that this film unfortunately didn't give them time to either accomplish or earn.
Now, onto the Chameleon!
The concept of the Chameleon's character is admittedly super interesting. She's the deuteragonist's fastidious mother figure who feels that Zhen owes her a debt and as a result holds her to an impossible standard. That dynamic had the potential to be so interesting but I didn't think it was explored at all. There is no indication of Zhen having any internal conflict about fighting the Chameleon, no emotional complexity between them at all; it's disappointing because I think it would've added a bit of earnestness to the film.
Additionally, the idea of a shape-shifting villain is versatile. A shape-shifting villain gives those telling the story a lot of room to experiment with the protagonist and different ways in which the main character can be challenged and tested. It's yet another good idea utilized poorly. Just one idea: the Chameleon could have disguised herself as one (or several) of Po's family, friends, etc. and brought to fruition a new arc with his character (seeing as he arguably doesn't have one in this film), but she only disguises herself as Zhen very briefly in the movie.
Furthermore, the Chameleon completely relies on the powers of previous villains to pose any sort of threat to the main characters. She summons Po's former nemeses from the Spirit Realm (despite there being little logic in doing so considering Kai's literal evisceration) and takes their kung fu abilities for herself.
An excerpt from my first KFP4 discussion post that I think is relevant to the point I'm trying to make:
I don’t think it would be in the best interest of anyone if the past villains were to come back in any way that’s not a flashback (even then, I’m not sure I’d see the point). In all honesty, I thought that the whole point of the villains was that they died and stayed dead. They were defeated by Po once and for all as a testament to the idea of establishing Po's character growth and journey as a person through the bad things he’s able to overcome. It’d be highly contradictory to the messages of the other films if these villains were to suddenly come back.
While there was an honest effort made to portray the Chameleon as intimidating, I never felt as though any of the characters were endangered by either her or her army of lizard henchman. She's a visually appealing character (aside from her eyes, which I thought more resembled those of a gecko than a chameleon) and I greatly enjoyed Davis's performance, but overall I don't see the Chameleon as a notable villain.
The return of Tai Lung (had he been on his own) had the makings to be an excellent story, especially considering the importance of teacher-student dynamics in KFP4. To see him interacting with Shifu would have been incredible and could have led to further closure on Tai Lung's end (because I think that's kind of what the team was going for anyway), but it didn't happen.
It was nice to see Ian McShane reprise his role, but I wish Tai Lung's characterization had been more reminiscent of the way he was in the first film and more complimentary of his overall character arc. Tai Lung isn't a one-dimensional villain with a singular goal and motivation, and I couldn't help but feel as though the complexity of his character was simplified for the sake of KFP4's narrative.
Tai Lung's presence in KFP4 may be odd, but Shen and Kai's appearances are even more so. Kai, if I remember correctly, was fully obliterated by Po, reduced to literal particles on screen (which is kind of wild now that I think about it). Shen being in the Spirit Realm makes sense all things considered; however, Po and Li had no visible reaction to his presence, which seemed a bit unlikely considering Shen's deeds. This plot hole can likely be attributed to the fact that Shen and Kai's cameos (to my knowledge) were last-minute additions to the movie.
I have to talk about the pacing. I have to. I'm sorry, bear with me.
To me, the film's pacing is erratic and disconcerting. While I can appreciate a quick-moving narrative that doesn't dawdle on storylines that aren't interesting/important, KFP4 kind of flings itself too far in the opposite direction and ends up being frighteningly fast-paced. Once the credits began, I felt like I had been holding my breath for the entire movie.
KFP4 is confusing because while the runtime is standard for a KFP movie, it feels incredibly short. At the same time, the film's story moves at a breakneck speed and leaves little time for heart and development. These things culminate into a barreling boulder of a movie that simply doesn't have time to let its characters, story, or audience take a breath.
A fast pace is not inherently negative, but I don't think it worked in the favor of KFP4. The KFP franchise has always been very emotionally grounded (and just very grounded in general), so to see a film in which emotion/heart takes an aggressive backseat in comparison to action and comedy is jarring. While I think it's unreasonable for fans to expect the same emotional integrity as the original films to be present in the current and upcoming ones, I still think there's room for Po to grow and I felt as though the notion of him developing further was brushed aside in this film.
As for Po's growth, I felt it was nearly nonexistent. The previous trilogy wrapped up his character's journey beautifully and I know that KFP4 was bound to struggle with this particular aspect of making another KFP film; however, just because the strongest pillars of Po's character are established doesn't serve as a valid excuse to reverse his development and repeat what he learned in KFP3.
In KFP3, Po learned firsthand that he is capable of spreading wisdom and teaching kung fu. He also learns that he is constantly growing and that change is inevitable; there is always something more to learn.
"If you only do what you can do, you will never be more than you are now."
"I don't want to be anything more, I like who I am!"
In KFP4, Po pushes against this narrative despite fully accepting it in KFP3, actively reversing crucial parts of his character development achieved in the latter. KFP3 was non-ambiguously about learning to cope with change and responsibility, and I can't help but feel like KFP4 is simply copying this message while not adding anything to it.
Additionally, I felt that KFP4's Po generally felt less personal than he has in the past. In every KFP movie up to the franchise's most recent addition, I felt very connected to Po as an audience member. I felt like I was truly seeing the world of KFP through his eyes. I consider this to be one of the franchise's most impressive feats; it's incredibly difficult to build a universe around a character without making the audience feel limited to one perspective and one part of the world.
With KFP4, I felt both limited and disconnected. The world didn't feel as vast and all-encompassing as it has in the past and Po didn't seem fully like himself. This could be me nitpicking (as I'm prone to do), but I can't recall a single moment in the movie in which Po was alone on screen. Scenes like these are crucial for me because I see them as a meet-cute between the character and the audience, a moment for us to cross the bridge into their world in a way that's silent and intuitive. These little bonding moments are absolutely integral to feeling connected to a character.
Po's dream sequence in the first KFP movie is one of the best examples of this. It presents his aspirations, alludes to his way of life up to the point of the movie, and showcases his personality. During Po's dream sequence, the audience is quite literally inside Po's mind; we're there with him, seeing what he sees, subsequently feeling what he feels. Po is a dreamer at heart and makes the audience feel like dreamers, too.
In KFP4, I felt like I little to no point of reference when it comes to how Po was feeling. I didn't feel immersed in him and his world.
I know I've been very "doom and gloom" throughout this post, which is an exhausting mindset for everyone involved. I want to end my critique with something positive because I think some praise is deserved. Let's just say the movie could have been a lot worse, the details of which I'm sure you're all well aware.
The color palette of the movie is beautiful and somewhat reminiscent of the first film. While the animation style of KFP4 is far more simplistic than its predecessors, I was very impressed with its use of shadow and light. Po's many faces were also hysterical, props to those who helped make him as expressive as he is.
Additionally, the movie's action sequences were clearly thought out and discussed in great detail. The experimentation with camera angles was really fun to watch and I enjoyed the majority of the film's fight scenes. They were fun, bouncy, and entertaining, and quite likely reinstated audiences's love of watching a cuddly panda kick butt.
Congratulations, you've reached the end! Thank you so much to all of you who took the time to read this unnecessarily long and detailed review. As long as I help someone translate their conflicted feelings into coherent thoughts, I'll call it a win.
I want to reiterate that I don't hate Kung Fu Panda 4 and I had fun while watching the film. It has its flaws and there are a lot of aspects that I dislike, but the effort of the crew is obvious and I greatly admire and respect the hard work put into the film by those who worked on it. This does not at all excuse my issues with the movie, but it's worth saying.
As for the future of the series, I only hope that the next installment is more considerate of the franchise's origins and why Po's story is being told in the first place. I fully believe that another sequel could be good given a strong, passionate crew with a great understanding of the characters and world (and I wouldn't be averse to some previous directors returning, just to put it out there).
Thanks again to those who took the time to read this crazy excuse for a movie review. Feel free to either disagree with me or add things in the replies/reblogs, I'm always looking for more thoughts to think.
Until next time!
#kung fu panda 4#kung fu panda#dreamworks animation#kfp#kfp 4#movie review#i'll add the actual picture of the furious five's cameo when i can get ahold of one of decent quality#my time has come#it wasn't THAT bad#i didn't love it#but it is what it is#it's a tentative 6/10 all things considered#free the five#perhaps i treated kfp3 too harshly#don't get me wrong the movie had good qualities and i can tell a lot of work went into it#a lot of missed potential imo#a lot of characters done dirty#i didn't even mention the score but i thought it was just okay#i wasn't wowed#i know close to nothing about composing though so i should probably just not even go there#credits were the best part both cinematically and musically#i feel mean but i'm not going to be dishonest#bc obviously you all simply must know how i feel about the silly panda movie#a more detailed version of the grievances i have w the dragon warrior plot can be found in my og discussion post if anyone's interested#as well as my thoughts on bringing back old villains#might make some edits to this in the future but this is all i have to say for now
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im back
#bungo stray dogs#bsd#fyodor dostoevsky#nikolai gogol#bsd fanart#my art#what do you mean I wasn't gone#but I think it's been a while since I've posted anything#I'm slowly getting back to making elaborate drawings in color and all not just doodles#well these are doodles but#It's been a long time since I've really allowed myself to take the time to properly draw#I didn't have the time to really get seriously into it because of school#the school drained me of all my vital energy I'm not even being dramatic this time ugh#uuuh it's been a rude end of school year but now I have time#I will be able to rest and I really want to get back into drawing#the motivation is slowly coming back I think#so have these for now ! I'll post some other stuff later#take care everyone <3<3
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i'm about to be a bitch about alloyd so like. skip ahead if you're not into that ig.
the thing thats grinds me the most about alloyd is that,, we've seen lloyd plan out living the rest of his life at someone's side. we've seen him actively wish to spend the rest of eternity with someone. we've seen him think what sounds suspiciously like marriage vows about someone.
i am not joking or exaggerating here are the quotes:
That’s why, you bastard. I’m going to take care of you until the very end. Once I, your wise and older friend, solve the restoration of destiny problem, you’re going to enjoy the rest of your life by my side in peace.
[...]
He smiled at Javier and thought to himself. You’re my only friend, Javier. I couldn’t have overcome all the obstacles in front of me without your help. So, my trustworthy and reliable comrade, stick with me until I become a lazy lord and you become my personal guard. I hope we will be able to grow old together…
-ch 327
Lloyd felt reassured by Javier's presence as he gazed at him. He could not have gotten this far without the knight. Therefore, he did not want to lose Javier and hoped they would keep bickering with each other for eternity.
-ch 361
He thought he'd always be with Javier for the rest of his life. Just like now, he thought they'd spend all their time together moving forward. And like they always did, they'd be by each other's side during hard times. Happy moments. Relaxed days. They'd share all these moments as they exchanged insults and corny jokes, growing old as a lazy lord of a fiefdom and his knight. Lloyd always thought so. The thought just came naturally, without much effort from him, much like breathing. Lloyd believed that Javier would always remain by his side as that was how it had been until now.
-ch 222
and at no point in any of those occasions has he ever sounded remotely afraid, threatened or uncomfortable with the idea.
so how come he is all of that when it comes to the idea of marrying what is supposed to be his canon love interest? like???
This is bad. Really bad.
Terrible feelings struck his gut. Lloyd's lifelong wish was to find a rather ordinary woman to fall in love with, before getting married and having kids with her to lead an unremarkable family life. This was the extent of the luxury he had always dreamed of, not the frantic romance with the mightiest queen in the entire continent.
I can see and feel it. I can sense it. This isn't good.
Lloyd could see himself in the queen's pockets, like a scaredy cat in the presence of a ferocious lioness.
-ch 390
Lloyd became speechless, even though he desperately wanted to call it an absolute abuse of power, tyranny, and dictatorship.
But I'm kind of excited and glad... except what kind of marriage proposal is this threatening...?!
But Lloyd couldn't bring it out in words, as his queen had already taken him by his hand.
It was rough, yet warm. He could feel every heartbeat that was clearly pounding faster than usual.
Ugh. There goes my dream of ordinary living.
Lloyd quickly wiped off the tear that was about to fall from his eyes at the thought of the frightening romance.
-ch 393
does this sound like someone in love???? like?? genuinely?? is this really what the main character should feel about his love interest???
i'm not even saying that the way lloyd feels about javier is inherently romantic, him feeling perfectly comfortable and hopeful about spending the rest of their life together is perfectly explicable by their close friendship.
but why make your protagonist sound so terrified of the idea of marrying what is supposed to be the love of his life?? when you never did that when writing about his other close relationship??
it's just. it's frustrating. to me lmao
#i talk a lot <3#tged#the greatest estate developer#lloyd frontera#alicia magentano#anti alloyd#<- i hate having an anti tag but i think i should start tagging my critical posts because. i'm being very mean about it ajkshjkdsf#anyway. how insane is it that bk moon wrote the perfect romance by accident and didn't realize because he wrote it for two male characters#it grates in my bones whenever he writes characters being afraid of their wives#like. god. whenever he mentions wives nagging i feel murderous.#the only exception is maybe berkis. who actually loves when his wife nags at him. and deliberately does stuff that will make her nag.#but even that is on thin ice
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hey guys btw there is actually never a good reason to loudly and publicly talk about how much u dislike a fanfic!! Like. let's break this down for a sec:
i don't like it
ok, understandable. i've dnf'd lots of fics because i didn't like them. but the people writing fanfiction are doing it for free and for fun, and you don't know anything about their lives. they could be a young writer just starting out! they could be an older writer getting back into writing after years of being unable to! they could be someone going through a rough patch whose only source of joy right now is writing their silly little stories! talking about how much you dislike a fanfic literally does nothing except hurt the person writing it. that's it. it is not productive, it is not necessary. even strangers on the internet deserve basic human empathy.
ok but i really don't like it
babe, i feel u! i'm a hater too. rant about it privately. shit on it in private messages or group chats with friends. u can dislike something without dragging its creator into the town square to throw tomatoes at them, yknow?
ok but i really don't like it AND it's popular
ok? shouting about that on the internet doesn't make you cool or special or unique. it just makes you kind of mean and, honestly, bitter. like i said before, this is fanfiction. nobody is paying for it. nobody is profiting. there is no standard that these writers are obligated to meet. clearly, other people like the work. why not let them enjoy it in peace?
no u don't understand it doesn't deserve to be popular there are better fics that deserve it more!!!
talk about those fics then!! post about how much u love them!! uplift those writers!! ur tweet or tiktok or tumblr post is not going to suddenly make a popular fic lose all popularity, no matter how undeserving u perceive it to be. if this is actually coming from a place of frustration because you feel like there are other fics that deserve more attention, then just give those fics attention.
no but it's problematic
mmm ok. let's sit with this one for a second. i want you to ask yourself--is it really, really problematic? is it perpetuating harm against a marginalized group? remember, this is fanfic; it is outside the consumer economy, and the stories it tells will almost never make it to a mainstream audience. so is the story actually hurting people, or is the author just exploring something that you're uncomfortable with? because if you're just uncomfortable, then assuming the work is tagged properly, the best course of action is to just click away. as uncomfortable as it may be, people are allowed to write stories that you might find upsetting or gross or weird, and those stories existing is not inherently harmful in and of itself.
it is actively reinforcing harmful stereotypes/rhetoric/etc
okay! ok. if you are deeply concerned because you feel that this fic is genuinely harmful, then go to the writer. leave a comment. send them a message on tumblr or twitter or tiktok or wherever. explain your situation and see what they say! nine times out of ten, i'd bet that an ao3 writer means no harm and would be willing to listen and address your concerns. in fact, they might even be grateful to you for being kind enough to make them aware of a problem and educate them on it. every ao3 writer i've ever spoken to is an incredibly kind and thoughtful person; you don't need to immediately go on the attack
the writer is unreachable/nonresponsive/not willing to address or change the problematic thing
alright. if you truly feel that this fanfiction is actively harmful and can't reach any kind of conclusion with the writer, and you want to warn others who might read the fic, then do that. do that. make a post that says hey guys btw, x thing in this fic is not a good representation/perpetuates a harmful stereotype/whatever the problem is. and leave it at that! you don't need to go further and insult the writing or the person who wrote it. that is helpful to exactly no one, and if your goal is actually to make the world a better place, then you should learn how to draw attention to an issue in a way that encourages actual dialogue instead of dog-piling and personal attacks.
anyway the next time you feel the desire to post about how bad you think a fic is, feel free to use this as a guide before u do! xoxo
#like i genuinely don't understand u guys sometimes#why do i keep seeing posts w hundreds or sometimes even thousands of likes#that are literally saying nothing except#i think this fic is bad and i don't like it#if someone was making cookies and handing them out for free and u didn't like them#would u go stand next to that person and shout about how shitty their baking skills are??#or would u just move tf on!!#bc they are doing something nice for free!!#and if u don't want to eat it u don't have to!!#like if u post abt disliking fics u are literally just mean#im sorry but u are just mean#and not even in a fun way#i love talking shit i love hating on things!!#i do it in PRIVATE#in PRIVATE!!!#where it's fun for me but i know it won't hurt anyone's feelings unnecessarily!!#some of u guys treat fanfiction like a product to consume and it's NOT#it's a gift!#it's a piece of art that someone is giving u!#so for the love of god stop thinking like a fucking little capitalist consumer for a moment and think like a human being w empathy!!#ranting and raving#txt
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no of fence to jon snow fans who for some reason care about his exact age, but these discussions just annoy me no end. not only bc there's no way any weirwood flashbacks bran has to rhaegar/lyanna will come with time/datestamps, but also bc there's always comments like this:
SEVERAL turns of the moon (ie, months)?! have these people never seen a human baby before or just have no concept of their ages? even if we take into account travel time from the toj to wf, meaning jon was not a newborn too fresh out the oven when catelyn and robb arrived, there's still a difference between a newborn and a 3mo and an even bigger difference between those infants and an older baby 5-7mo. there's very good reasons these lines were cut. whatever birthdates can be worked out internally for jon and robb from when they're first mentioned as 15 and 16 don't matter in the end, bc grrm doesn't care about a consistent timeline and the actual text of catelyn's pov and ned's convo with robert about cheating on her should outweigh any guesstimates about jon's official nameday wrt robb's. catelyn may not have cared for jon, but she would sure as hell have noticed his nameday if it came before robb's and made him ned's firstborn. if jon's birthday canonically came before robb's then either ned's cover story would not involve adultery (not impossible for him to sire a bastard before his wedding), or he'd just give jon a new nameday along with his new name to fit the adultery lie. it makes no sense for him to lie about one and not the other, undermining the big lie with a little public clue of his story not adding up. whatever else she was as a stepmother, cat wasn't stupid and a bastard who was actually the eldest son being raised alongside her trueborn heir could be an even bigger insult than whether he was born of adultery or not.
BUT, the unknowability of jon's true birthday is not the only reason this annoys me, it's bc this is all based on the assumption that jon must be older since rhaegar/lyanna ran off together before ned married cat, as if both boys must have been conceived asap as robb canonically was when his parents consummated their marriage. and that's not how human reproduction works! even if you don't understand how fast babies grow in the first year, you should know that people who get pregnant do so through ovulation cycles and a lucky sperm finding an egg and all that, not just immediately getting knocked up as soon as one has p-in-v sex for the first time. not unless you only know mean girls sex ed where if you have sex you will get pregnant and die. (even tho lyanna did die, there's plenty of canon examples where pregnancy did not lead straight to death. also examples of people who did not get pregnant right away and even some who are/were sexually active and childless without always having moon tea on hand.) we can't know how long lyanna was having sex before that sperm+egg match happened or even how long she was with rhaegar before losing her technical virginity. if they were married, doesn't it make sense to think they didn't consummate their relationship until the wedding night either? that's the only leverage there is to ensure a status as wife rather than just mistress.
and while i just said grrm doesn't care about exact timelines and a lot is still foggy surrounding the rebellion and esp rhaegar, there is one timemarker wrt robert's rebellion he voluntarily threw in, time and time again: that stannis was besieged at storm's end for almost a whole year. that siege, which mind you, did not match the duration of the entire war. it only started after robert won his battles at gulltown and summerhall, returned to storm's end, and then went out and lost the battle of ashford, leaving his homeland open to the reachermen. the same siege which only ended when ned made a detour there after the sack of king's landing, before going to the toj. even if lyanna may not have given birth that exact day ned found her, she could only be waiting in that bloody bed for weeks at the most, not months. so if rhaegar knocked her up the very same night he carried her off and jon was still a newborn when ned found her after the siege of storm's end had ended, wouldn't that mean lyanna was pregnant for well over a year? that's not how human pregnancy works either! so, maybe that's proof that jon and robb, whichever order they were actually born in, were actually very close in age as babies, much closer than if they were both conceived asap.
and really, jon's actual birthdate does not matter imho, when he was raised not just as the bastard to robb's trueborn heir, but with robb also known by catelyn and the world as ned's firstborn (which he was, in any case, as jon was ned's nephew by birth). what difference could a birthdate before robb's make (even were there some means of discovery) after ned, cat, and robb are all dead? if one is looking only at his birth parents then he's only a firstborn child on lyanna's side, but definitely a second son on rhaegar's side. maybe he was always meant to be a second son with a not much older half-brother! even if the aegon fka young griff is not in fact rhaegar's son, he'll still be known as aegon vi targaryen, meaning jon will never be known as any father's elder son. if i may reference mean girls again, it's not going to happen.
#valyrianscrolls#asoiaf#asoiaf meta#robb stark#jonathan snowflake starkgaryen#i want him to succeed me as king in the north#jon snow#ned stark#lyanna stark#like this isn't prompted by anyone except that reddit post and its comments this has just annoyed me for so long#that's why i made that show!robb/show!jon coming of age gifset years ago bc narratively jon is always a second son#bc robb did everything first as elder bro and the only milestones jon will hit first will be the those robb can't since he's dead for good#(obviously starting with jon being first male stark to be brought back from the dead)#not that everyone interested in this debate thinks this way but it just feels tied to the idea of jon being a trueborn heir#not only was he never a bastard he was an eldest boy! eldest surviving boy with those pesky half-dornish sibs gone! point missed.#sorry i just dont think grrm means for a targ restoration with king jon any more than fake eldest boy kendall roy could win his succession#(c)lsb#i had to look up all the quotes on the big storm's end siege bc it makes me feel like i'm taking crazy pills#thinking what abt stannis starving for a year while others are like we just can't know how long rr was. was it even 9mons?#like yeah lollys's pregnancy doesn't add up but bc grrm really slowed the tl down postacok prob w/o really thinking#thats diff from repeatedly saying something lasted almost a year when he didn't have to give such a timeframe!
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#tropius#HE SO APPY!!! FUCK!!! HOLY SHIT I LOVE THIS ONE#i've never looked at tropius up close before i didn't even know they had a little helmet and shit. this is WONDERFUL. they're SO appy#i hope you all appreciate this as much as i do because this is very good. i don't even know anything about tropius. jack SHIT. except that#they're so appy. and i will accept this. i gotta work but i've been too busy thinking abt how appy they are#i also started the process of remaking my main blog. bc it just had a lot of posts on it all the way back to way back in my past#and i felt like it was weighing the whole blog down and making me not want to use it. and that blog needed some housekeeping for me to want#to associate myself with it. so i'm currently in the process of coming up with a new URL before i start really renovating#so the hunt for miss ffp starts anew or something. unless i've lazily replied to you in a comment once and you remember my url#i've done that to a few of you. demifiendcruithne is one. shoutouts to you demifiendcruithne you're the best#then there was that one who assumed i use windows. despite recognizing that i'm “rather techy.” yuck!#had to respond to that one to clear up any suspicion that i might be a windows user. this is all totally unrelated and also will be#totally irrelevant by the time this post gets up anyway. hopefully. y'know if i haven't come up with a new url by then then#i mean. that's my fault. but this isn't gonna post until july 23rd. 10 days from today. so. hopefully!#see you all then
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Dracula Declarations of Love
There is so much love, and so much talk of love, in this book. It's extremely hard to pick a favorite, but let's give it a go (or just get emotional over a bunch of quotes lined up together).
I tried to stick mostly to declarations/talk about (rather than acts of) love, primarily to focus on specific quotes and help me narrow it down to just twelve (still a big challenge). Before anyone asks, no, "I too can love" is not on here because Dracula's version of love doesn't stack up to the others for me in terms of emotional impact. And these were definitely chosen by my personal preference of specific quotes; there are a bunch of other great words of love that didn't make it in. Also, important note - this is not exclusively romantic love by any means.
The whole quotes don't fit in the poll, so please read below before you vote.
Full Quotes:
11 May, Lucy: "Oh, Mina, couldn't you guess? I love him. I am blushing as I write, for although I think he loves me, he has not told me so in words. But oh, Mina, I love him; I love him; I love him!"
24 May, Quincey: "If that other fellow doesn't know his happiness, well, he'd better look for it soon, or he'll have to deal with me. Little girl, your honesty and pluck have made me a friend, and that's rarer than a lover; it's more unselfish anyhow."
19 August, Mina: "I have cried over the good Sister's letter till I can feel it wet against my bosom, where it lies. It is of Jonathan, and must be next my heart, for he is in my heart. [...] I must write no more; I must keep it to say to Jonathan, my husband. The letter that he has seen and touched must comfort me till we meet."
24 August, Jonathan and Mina: "Then he took my hand in his, and oh, Lucy, it was the first time he took his wife's hand, and said that it was the dearest thing in all the wide world, and that he would go through all the past again to win it, if need be. [...] Well, my dear, what could I say? I could only tell him that I was the happiest woman in all the wide world, and that I had nothing to give him except myself, my life, and my trust, and that with these went my love and duty for all the days of my life."
24 August, Mina: "Lucy dear, do you know why I tell you all this? It is not only because it is all sweet to me, but because you have been, and are, very dear to me. It was my privilege to be your friend and guide when you came from the schoolroom to prepare for the world of life. I want you to see now, and with the eyes of a very happy wife, whither duty has led me; so that in your own married life you too may be all happy as I am. My dear, please Almighty God, your life may be all it promises: a long day of sunshine, with no harsh wind, no forgetting duty, no distrust. I must not wish you no pain, for that can never be; but I do hope you will be always as happy as I am now."
7 September, Arthur: '"What can I do?" asked Arthur hoarsely. "Tell me, and I shall do it. My life is hers, and I would give the last drop of blood in my body for her."'
17 September, Mina: "Jonathan asks me to send his 'respectful duty,' but I do not think that is good enough from the junior partner of the important firm Hawkins & Harker; and so, as you love me, and he loves me, and I love you with all the moods and tenses of the verb, I send you simply his 'love' instead."
30 September, Mina and Arthur: '"I loved dear Lucy, and I know what she was to you, and what you were to her. She and I were like sisters; and now she is gone, will you not let me be like a sister to you in your trouble? I know what sorrows you have had, though I cannot measure the depth of them. If sympathy and pity can help in your affliction, won't you let me be of some little service—for Lucy's sake?" [...] "I know now how I suffered," he said, as he dried his eyes, "but I do not know even yet—and none other can ever know—how much your sweet sympathy has been to me to-day. I shall know better in time; and believe me that, though I am not ungrateful now, my gratitude will grow with my understanding. You will let me be like a brother, will you not, for all our lives—for dear Lucy's sake?"'
3 October, Jonathan: '"Nonsense, Mina. It is a shame to me to hear such a word [unclean]. I would not hear it of you; and I shall not hear it from you. May God judge me by my deserts, and punish me with more bitter suffering than even this hour, if by any act or will of mine anything ever come between us!" He put out his arms and folded her to his breast; and for a while she lay there sobbing."
3 October, Jonathan: "To one thing I have made up my mind: if we find out that Mina must be a vampire in the end, then she shall not go into that unknown and terrible land alone. I suppose it is thus that in old times one vampire meant many; just as their hideous bodies could only rest in sacred earth, so the holiest love was the recruiting sergeant for their ghastly ranks."
11 October, Mina: "You are nearest and dearest and all the world to me; our souls are knit into one, for all life and all time."
31 October, Mina: "We are truly in the hands of God. He alone knows what may be, and I pray Him, with all the strength of my sad and humble soul, that He will watch over my beloved husband; that whatever may happen, Jonathan may know that I loved him and honoured him more than I can say, and that my latest and truest thought will be always for him."
#dracula daily#dracula daily spoilers#polls#my polls#jonmina and mina especially are kind of taking over. they're just too damn romantic/she's so damn good at talking about love#sorry to those who didn't make it on here. doesn't mean i don't love em too but it these are some of the individual lines that hit hardest#/make me personally most emotional#even then i have added on/taken off a couple#spoiled for choice i guess!#anyways posting today since two of the options are from today
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genuinely @ that ask you answered: as a trans woman some of the most genuine kinship i have found has been with fat queer cis women. especially if they have PCOS or something similar because like. their story mirrors mine so intensely (and their perscriptions, lol) and it's so natural to relate on literally everything about conventional attraction and clothing not fitting quite right and the way society views you
it's refreshing and delightful to find yourself in people who are different from you 💜
I REALLY think there are so many shared experiences there!! yeah! and god, with PCOS, that has even more similarities in the shared experience venn diagram. I don't talk from that perspective but just being a fat woman, in both cases, womanhood/girlhood isn't inherent and it isn't given freely, it's conditional, it's worked for.
the specific types of clothing to look feminine, the clothing not fitting, the makeup, the hair, the nails, the body shaping, the put-togetherness, all in the pursuit to be read as "girl" first, instantly, before anything else. something that another woman might have already, in her default state, regardless of the clothes she leaves the house wearing, or if she can do makeup well.
She can dress up and wear makeup and enhance her femininity too, but she doesn't Have to do it, not in the same way.
I have actually literally already been thinking about this, bc it's a funny thing!! in some ways, I never got to Be a girl, I was fat first and girl second. nobody looked at me and just saw a girl. I've talked to some other fat women about this, and apparently it's a pervasive feeling, that "fat" is, in itself, treated almost like some other third gender. so there's a lot to relate to lmao, in friendships and relationships w trans women, going "ah, those things you feel obligated to do in order to meet the standards of womanhood, I recognize those, I do them too"
#edit: SCREAMING I did not mean to do such a wall of text. ok.#long post#self recognition through the other etc#anyway this isn't to present womanhood as this long-suffering prison of agony#but there's something to be said abt knowing that you don't tick the boxes in your default state#and also the way that this feeling brings certain women together#I didn't even touch on the obvious Combo there#stop me if I'm making no fucking sense here#sergle answers
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Usually I just save stuff like this to my drafts until I calm down but you know what, fuck it, I'm done.
Any so-called leftist who refuses to recognize that our options right now are "genocide abroad, progress at home" and "genocide abroad AND genocide at home" and that there is a significant difference between those two options is cordially invited to eat shit and die. We do not have time to entertain your anti-voting hopeless nonsense. A future in which we are able to move towards less death will always be preferable to the one in which we can't, and if you smug, sneering little clowns sacrifice that future on the altar of your own self-righteousness because you're too high on your own farts to realize how far up your own ass you are, I genuinely hope you fucking drown. Specifically, I hope you drown in the blood of the people who will die all over the world as a result of your bizarre refusal to work towards a future that doesn't include ethnic cleansing.
This is the United States. We sell war, here. I don't know how so many of you are only just now figuring that out, but you better get over your shock like yesterday because we are out of fucking time. We ran out of time when Reagan took office if not long before. You think not voting will improve any of this?
Keep calling, keep writing, keep screaming. Governments everywhere are (slowly) beginning to listen. Democrats are (slowly) beginning to listen. But Republicans never will, and if they seize power again next year (which they will absolutely do their damned to attempt), everything will be so, so much worse for everyone, everywhere. The work is slow and painful and imperfect but it will only get done if we show up and do the work, so keep calling, keep writing, keep screaming-- and when the time comes, you show up and vote for the future that lets us build a better tomorrow instead of just choking to death in the steaming shitpile of today.
#''i can't have No Genocide tomorrow!!! so i don't want No Genocide at all!!! WAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH'' that's you. that's how you sound#''if i can't have perfect then don't even fucking bother with better!! just give me worse instead!!'' are you for fucking real#you don't care about Palestine you don't care about anything other than being able to go ''Well. at least I didn't choose this.''#not choosing is still a choice! you stupid motherfucker!#choosing to stand at the lever and do nothing and watch the trolley crush five people is still a choice!!#how DARE you act like that blood is not on your hands!#again: THIS IS THE UNITED STATES. WE SELL WAR HERE.#not voting for Biden is not going to help Palestine!#in fact it will absolutely measurably make the situation WORSE!#for them AND everyone else!#this is the reality we are working with and if you want it to change then you HAVE to play the long game!#leftists heard ''don't let perfect be the enemy of good'' and went ''WHAT THE *FUCK* DO YOU MEAN I CAN'T HAVE PERFECT??! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA''#and i have fucking had it!#all i can do is try to keep working towards a day when the current left is the farthest right we have#but we are never gonna get there if y'all don't wake the fuck up and get moving#us politics#vent post#so help me god if this turns into a game of Spot the Tankie in the notes i'm gonna start knifing people
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i feel very mixed on shiv's ending, particularly her choice to return to tom -- i think it makes sense from a thematic/character arc perspective and is a powerful yet devastating indictment of both shiv and the world that created her as well as showing that the cycle of abuse will always continue to cycle, that shiv will become her mother etc, but i also think it does not make sense from a character/internal logic perspective. it's a choice that makes sense from the writers, but not from shiv, not yet. it could've been a brilliant ending to her character, but is tainted for me by the less-than-ideal execution of it, which felt very rushed, making shiv's final submission to tom feel forced by the show rather than forced by the situation or honest to her character. the ending is not inherently misogynistic from the writers' side as i've seen some criticisms claim (it is a dark but real portrayal of misogyny within capitalist society and how it's internalized within the white women who end up at the hips of the CEOs who run it), but i do understand how it could feel that way. the show fails at building up to (and thus convincing us) that the version of shiv we currently know would so immediately subject herself to her mother's fate, so instead of it feeling like shiv's hand was forced by patriarchy to place herself into her worst nightmare, it instead feels like the show itself was the thing that forced shiv to take that route, which does leave a sour taste in the mouth. it doesn't feel like the result of a choice shiv would make or the impact of patriarchal society bearing down, it just feels rushed and thus wrong. shiv would've benefitted immensely from a few more episodes or even just a few scenes dedicated to teasing out her newfound willingness to subject herself to immense disrespect in order to remain close to power, but given that her entire character has always been defined by her inability to do just that unless forced to (which i don't think she was in this situation as she could've easily not waited in the car for tom, not put her hand in his, but she did), her return to tom feels hard to comprehend, and her near immediate submission to him hard to stomach.
(read more under the cut because jesus christ did this get long)
in my mind, at least, i've always understood shiv as being respect-driven rather than power-driven -- she wants power, yes, but more than anything she wants to be taken seriously and respected and seen as a legitimate player, and time and time again we've seen her blow up situations that would've been very advantageous long-term because she felt disrespected and needed to speak up and force people to take her seriously (which, ironically, typically results in the opposite). shiv's overarching goal is power, but her immediate necessity is always respect. her dignity is her number one priority at any given moment, even when it shouldn't be, even when it stops her from attaining the success and power she wants. i can kind of understand shiv going against kendall because of this -- she's always had a very, very narrow lens whenever she feels like she's being disrespected, and even though it is infinitely more humiliating for your (somewhat ex) husband to betray you and boot you out of the CEO position behind your back at the behest of your supposed closest ally (and for you to still vote for them after that!!!) than it is for you to magnanimously allow your brother to be CEO (which would publicly be seen as a choice, as telly etc said - sibs need to stand united behind one chosen CEO - rather than shiv being out of the loop and fucked to infinity), the narrowness of her vision upon seeing kendall about to win makes it impossible for her to think about that legitimately. it's not just jealousy, it's indignity: shiv feels she earned CEO through her machinations with mattson and feels genuinely sick seeing the loganified kendall grinning at the head of the table, hearing his "that's fucking right" and witnessing his cocky entitlement to the job that belonged to her. so, she does what she always does when she feels disrespected, when she feels her dignity is at stake, and impulsively blows everything to fuck, including her own best interests. that makes sense for shiv, at least somewhat -- i still think that as much as she wouldn't want ken as CEO she'd feel like at least w that outcome she'd be seen as a player and a deciding factor, whereas with mattson/tom she'd be viewed as a pathetic fucked-over nothing woman pawn etc (a situation of unparalleled indignity imo), but i can rationalize her choice to go against ken anyways as being part of the narrowed field of vision she always gets upon feeling disrespected by men in her life that makes it impossible for her to think strategically (and i guess even though the disrespect was greater and more humiliating from tom/mattson than ken, ken was the most recent most present and most lifelong source so that's all she could focus on; seeing him like logan was too much to bear). it's hard to imagine shiv publicly throwing her vote behind two men who publicly fucked her as humiliatingly as mattson and tom just did, even if the other option is kendall, but i think that's part of it -- it's fundamentally illogical, even from her disrespect-lens, because there's just something about kendall specifically being in charge that she's never been able to stomach. it's visceral and impulsive. it's not meant to make "sense." it's just what she feels she has to do to preserve her own dignity, even though it works directly against those same interests realistically. it wasn't executed very well, making it hard to entirely buy it given just how publicly humiliating the alternative is, but it can still be chalked up to her historically one-track-mind when it comes to indignity by the hands of kendall in particular. it's a last-ditch attempt for shiv to at least feel like she's maintaining her dignity, her self-respect, as counterintuitive as it actually is. it makes sense. i can stomach it.
again, shiv's fatal flaw (in logan's eyes and aside from her original sin of being a woman) has always, always been her inability to shut up and make the smart move in situations where she feels she's being disrespected or not taken seriously. if shiv stayed quiet during that dinner with the pierces, maybe she would've been logan's CEO, but no, she couldn't stop herself, she needed to feel she was being taken seriously, she burst out 'cmon, dad, just tell them it's going to be me.' she is unable to play it smart, to keep quiet, to win when winning means perceived disrespect. she's allergic to it. even on a personal level, she shoots herself in the foot constantly because of this: she is unable to let herself have the things she wants because she can't put herself in positions that open her up to disrespect and perceived inferiority. she can't be vulnerable because she needs to be respected. tom asks her if he could 'try to make love to her' in episode one of this season, and even though she clearly wants to, she says 'no, i don't think so, tom.' tom tells her he 'wants her, wants this' back in episode six, and even though she clearly wants that too, she draws back and says 'well then you shouldn't have betrayed me.' shiv is fundamentally incapable of allowing herself to remain in possibly advantageous situations when she feels at risk of being seen as lesser, of being disrespected, of being perceived as weak. that is her response to patriarchy. when patriarchal forces bear down, shiv is unable to grin and bare it -- she has a short fuse, a sharp tongue, and an inability to entertain even a second of being treated like The Woman, of being looked down upon, especially when it's for her gender. it's the one thing she cannot do, cannot let herself do, and it's why she fails to "win" over and over and over again. she shoots herself in the foot the second her patriarchy disrespect sensors tingle. she makes the wrong choice, the dumb choice, the one that makes her feel like she stood up for herself in the moment but ends up leaving her powerless and helpless in the end. that's the only explanation for why she chose to vote against kendall (the clearly better option for her long-term as she'd 1) be respected as part of the decision, as someone who helped choose the CEO rather than a Woman who got fucked over and had the door slammed in her face by her husband and close ally simply because she possessed a womb, and 2) probably be head of ATN or some other area of waystar, she'd have actual power within the company and be respected as a legitimate source of power rather than the CEO-to-be made CEO's humiliated wife -- if she was capable of making the smart, selfish choice in terms of power instead of having a hair-trigger reaction to gendered disrespect and cocky male superiority, she would have voted kendall. but she is not capable of doing that. she never has been. so she voted tom and mattson.
so what i still cannot for the life of me understand is what would compel this shiv, the one who cannot stomach indignity even when power's on the line, to immediately return to tom's side the second he beckons her, which is like five minutes after he becomes CEO (the job she was promised) by mattson (who gave it to tom instead of shiv because 'why get the baby lady if i can get the man who put the baby inside her?'). it makes perfect, cruel, devastating sense from a show perspective, and that's what most people are talking about, understandably. it's a devastating yet unavoidable, inevitable outcome. she's left with no other choice once she makes the decision against kendall, and patriarchy compels her to play the good wife to stay close to power. except, like... she does still have a choice. she does not have to go back to tom's car. she does not have to sit patiently waiting for him. she does not have to quietly congratulate him on his victory. she does not have to place her hand in his. these are all choices she made very voluntary. they're choices between maintaining her dignity and self-respect at the cost of future power versus maintaining the potential for future power at the cost of her dignity and self-respect -- the classic siobhan roy conundrum. she's been faced with it time and time again (even just five minutes prior with kendall) and she has never, not once, chosen the latter of her own volition. she hasn't been able to. that's her fatal flaw. maybe i could stomach her going back to tom if she didn't congratulate him, didn't place her hand in his when he expectantly held his out -- then some dignity would be preserved, maybe. but her complete and total submission for the sake of future power does not make sense with her lifelong inability to do just that. it makes sense that this would be her eventual endpoint, but we have seen nothing that implies shiv would so willingly subject herself to this feminine submission of wife and mother before person or source of power, to the complete and utter humiliation of being the quiet wife at the side of the man who knifed her in the back (and notably handed said knife by the man she thought her closest ally) in order to steal the job she fought for her entire life and, in her opinion, had earned. maybe she would come back to him eventually, for love or (more likely) for power, but it is incredibly hard to believe that shiv 'impulsive when faced with indignity' roy would be capable of immediately and publicly playing the role of the good wife after such intense and public humiliation at the hands of her husband.
really, the way i feel about the shiv ending is similar to how i feel about the daenerys ending -- unlike most people, i really wasn't that against the daenerys outcome. i thought it made a lot of sense and was interesting, devastating, and fascinating. i thought there had been a few signs all along and that that ending for her would make sense and be far more interesting than a Hooray ! Girlboss ! ending. however, it was poorly executed -- it was rushed. it did not make sense from where daenerys was at that point in the text. it could've worked, it could've worked brilliantly, but it needed more time to build and fester in order for her ultimate turn to feel earned rather than forced for the sake of the point the writers wanted to make. that's kind of how i feel about shiv. i get the ending and i don't think it's inherently bad or misogynistic or anything, but it feels like the writers saw the possibility for a shiv 'mommed' ending and immediately took it, with little regard to what actually made sense for shiv herself to do in that moment. outcome > character. that's frustrating for me particularly for succession because my like number one reason for adoring succession as much as i do is their consistent refusal to operate the way most media does (using the characters as instruments to achieve the plot/outcome the writers want), instead prioritizing following the characters themselves in a way that feels honest and real. it's character-driven, not plot or ending driven. i think that this fell by the wayside a few times in the latter half of this season simply because there was so much that needed to happen in such a short space of time (especially during the finale), but in my opinion, at least, the most egregious case is shiv. given more time, more development, more build-up, the last shot of her hand in tom's would've struck the chord the writers wanted it to -- and for some people, it did anyways! but for me, it rang out and fell nauseatingly flat. it felt hollow and wrong and unearned. shiv could end up becoming her mother, that feels entirely possible, but not in this particular sense, not yet. in what world would siobhan roy willingly choose to be seen as nothing more than a woman hanging off her husband's arm, especially when said husband had publicly humiliated her and ruined her entire life just five minutes prior? when, just five (metaphorical) minutes prior, she was the one poised to be CEO and everyone knew it? when now everyone will see her on tom's arm and whisper and gawk? she has become her worst fear, yes, but unlike kendall, it does not feel earned. it does not feel like she has actually become her worst fear. it feels like the show forced her to. not patriarchy or the situation or her own desire for power, but the show itself. that's what feels so shitty.
i wouldn't necessarily call the writing misogynistic as a result of this, as it's less a flaw of misogyny and more a flaw of bad, rushed writing that could happen to any character. it's the same as with daenerys -- although (somewhat unlike succession) there were many, many aspects of GoT's writing that were deeply misogynistic, especially in the last season (just look at fucking brienne), the core issue with the daenerys plotline is not one of misogyny but of time. they did not give daenerys the time needed to become the version of herself seen burning down the city. that could've easily been a focus of previous episodes, but it wasn't. they simply did not develop her enough for that turn to make sense yet. it could make sense, hypothetically, at some point down the line, but at that point it felt sudden, off-putting, and wrong. shiv could easily become her mother. that's been made evident especially regarding her relationship to pregnancy/children, love, and vulnerability (or the lack thereof). but for this ending to make sense, we would have needed to see signs of shiv imitating her mother's willingness to be relegated to the sidelines, to bring out the food while the men eat and make deals, in order to remain tangential to power. that is a concession shiv roy had never been willing to make prior to the last five minutes of the entire show. other signs of shiv imitating caroline or falling prey to patriarchal norms throughout the show are not enough to undo shiv's fundamental refusal to weather gender-related indignity even when doing so would benefit her. in my opinion, that's why the final five minutes of shiv's plotline were so unsatisfying.
shiv could become her mother, and her ending could be a devastating portrayal of the inability for even rich white women to escape their original sin of being a woman in a man's world, as well as a dark, ironic criticism of both women like shiv and the patriarchal world that breeds them into existence. but because the show did not develop shiv in this particular direction and because her entire character thus far has been defined by her self-destructive insistence on being respected at all costs, shiv's ending did not land the way it could've, or should've.
#WOOF okay this was long. not even gonna read it over bc if i do i'll never stop editing to it or adding to it and god knows no one needs tht#so if it's shit well. forgive me#but yeah this is just my take. i felt really unhappy w shiv's ending but didn't quite know why because the ending itself i can imagine bein#fine with but really i just feel very frustrated by the show writing over any agency she would normally have had in order to make their#point by the time the episode ended#honestly the more i think about it the more i feel this season should've had more episodes -- i think another season after this one would b#GREAT for me personally obviously but unnecessary for the show itself and possibly too much of a good thing#but at the same time the latter half of this season could really have benefitted from a little wiggle room and space to develop#so it wasn't just Sudden Mattson Likes Tom or Wait Did Mencken Disappear or Remember Roman's Sexuality or SHIV FUCKING SHIIIIV lolllll#ok. this is too long. post#succession#succession spoilers#long post#and i mean LONG#should i do a read more? i never know what the like courtesy is lmao#well . yall asked for it so here u go#shiv roy#succession meta#i guess#edit i did a read more this is disgusting LOLOL#100#casey shut the fuck up about shiv roy
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