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victimsofyaoipoll · 7 months

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Semifinals

Sakura Haruno

Her husband is gay and her author doesn't know how to write women. So many people say she's the worst but she. DESERVES. BETTER!!! Save her from this franchise.

My baby girl my bestie my best friend. She committed the crime of um being written by kishimoto who both doesn’t know how to write women and somehow writes men in the gayest way possible specifically naruto and sasuke. Like the thing is naruto and sasuke ARE gay and also she gets so much hate for the crime of kishimoto writing her one dimensionally in love with sasuke. I know her personally she is a butch lesbian to me just trust me she’s in love with Ino and has a lesbian thing going on with Karin okay just trust me. My everything. She needs to divorce the loveless lavender marriage she’s in

What is there to say, even? The OG Threat to my 90s anime brain, the only woman I've ever hated with such a passion she made me turn away from the color pink. I used to write fics with my friend where she got left behind on purpose so our OCs could join the Naruto and Sasuke team instead. I loathed this bitch until I was 16 and realized the author simply couldnt write women and decided it was time to make peace with Sakura. It is not her fault she's vaguely written and obsessive over Sasuke. She deserves better. Sasuke and Naruto still should be together and Sakura shouldnt be with Sasuke but I no longer believe this because I hate Sakura, it is because I love her. She deserves a spouse who will actually put in the time to treat her like the hero she is.

Casca

She is part of a weird fucked up love triangle with two dudes. All three of them are honestly kind of terrible for each other but she gets shoved aside in favor of the two dudes in most fics and is not allowed to grow past the toxic relationships of her past. Also she’s a cis woman who dresses pretty masculinely (because she’s in a mercenary band) so she gets type casted as the mean lesbian friend, when she’s straight in canon

I've seen more than one Yaoi Shipper say that Casca should have died during this one big canon event as opposed to being assaulted by one of the people in the Yaoi Ship, which of course conveniently would remove her from the narrative and as an obstacle to said Yaoi Ship. Aside from that specifically, though, I think it's particularly cruel to imply that being killed is a better outcome than being a victim of SA, and is an example of the contempt fandom on the whole has for female characters who act traumatized - particularly when both male characters in the ship have similar trauma and its never implied they should have died rather than be assaulted.

She's an incredibly interesting character in her own right with really good dynamics and parallels to Griffith and Guts, and the way those three play off of each other is integral to the story, but most of what I've seen completely ignores her in favor of focusing on only Griffith and Guts

#poll #round 5 #sakura haruno #naruto #casca berserk #casca #berserk

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dungeon-meshi-tournament · 2 months

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Seaworthiest Ship in the Dungeon Tournament 2024 Funny Comments

Doing a shipping tournament inspired a lot of comments from you guys, many of which I found funny. So here's a selection of the funniest comments I got, sorted by the poll they were left on.

Namarcille vs Falin x Shuro (round 1 part 1) harold theyre lesbians. three Lesbians and a clueless Straight Man

Marcille x Touden siblings vs Namari x Kaka & Kiki (round 1 part 1) What's better than two long sexy legs? Four long sexy legs and bisexuality!

Marcitsumi vs Laios x Thistle (round 1 part 1) im sorry i can't say no to anything that results in Laios bondage sorry

Marios vs Island governor x Shadow governor (round 1 part 1) Who's shipping heterosexual shit in Dunmesh I just wanna chat Heterosexual ??? ON MY DASH !? No let me take the old man yaoi

Kakamari vs Kikimari (round 1 part 1) Flustering Namari is Kiki's true calling in life. The constant 😏 face

Maizuru x Toshitsugu vs Laios x Kensuke (round 1 part 2) 'sword fight' taking on a whole new meaning

Senshi x Chilchuck's daughters vs Otta x Chilchuck's wife (round 1 part 2) This is just the "torture Chilchuck" match up lmao sorry Chilchuck your wife has to fuck the hot elf dyke. the only thing stopping otta is that she has to be nearing 30

Canary polycule vs Labru (round 2 part 1) Narrative foils Yada yada. Laios is NOT interested in humans!!!!! one top and her army of bottoms. what could be better. mithrun is their pet fish

Farcille vs Laios x Kensuke (round 2 part 2) honestly this tournament is like my anthropology field. a good place to see dynamics of the fandom

Otta x Chilchuck's wife vs Senshi x Mithrun (round 2 part 2) happy Valentine’s Day chilcuck

Izutsumi by herself vs Namari x Kaka & Kiki (round 3) sorry izutsumi but leggsicule omfg izutsumi will be perfectly fine by herself but namari will have a mental breakdown if we fumble this ship for her

Winged Lion x Laios vs Labru (round 3) literal embodiment of lust vs guy who doesnt like the other guy

Kensuke x Ambrosia vs Kikimari (round 3) *to the tune of that gum commercial* “Long long leeeeeeeegs”

Laisen vs Cithidol (round 3) alright i know what i just said about kabumisu but cithidol is pretty funny too. worst couple you ever saw 10/10

Farcille vs Otta x Chilchuck's wife (round 3) farcille killing the joke ships out of thr bracket. its okay falin would love marcille if she was a worm. but otta would drop the wife for being 30 terrible day for lesbian dicaprio fans

Izutsumi by herself vs Labru (quarter finals) She must be stopped!!! She must be enabled!!!

Farcille vs the Flokes (quarter finals) I was voting for the old people to have sex but ok girls having sex is wholesome hope this helps. loser ‘hey kiki & kaka your parents are gnc as fuck’

Izutsumi by herself vs Kikimari (semi-finals) Rise up and dethrone God(izutsumi)!!!!

Kabumisu vs Farcille (semi-finals) There's no way Kabumisu can beat Farcille, but it's an honor to face them in battle 🫡🫡🫡🫡🫡 wlw on mlm violence

Izutsumi by herself vs Farcille (finale) THE REMATCH OF THE CENTURY two girls should win this time. not just one A ship winning?? On my celibacy website?? very aroacephobic of you to not vote izutsumi if you ask me

Kikimari vs Kabumisu (battle for the bronze) 5 women on one podium we can make it happen. mmmmm 5 women..... [multi-paragraph post with detailed pro-Kabumisu points Counterpoint: Leggggg

#dungeon meshi #delicious in dungeon #dunmeshi spoilers #seaworthiest ship in the dungeon tournament #funny comments #i could've probably done several themed posts spun off from this with how much material you guys gave me #roasting that person who got mad farcille beat the flokes #lesbians vs catgirl #namari and legs

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danmeireader · 7 months

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you know what? im feeling very appreciative of yaoi today, actually.

not to be corny, but BL was literally formative for me, as in, not only was it the only source of queer fiction available to me for a long while (before song of achilles or ari and dante or w/e, and even after, because it was translated for /free/ by these "straight" "fetishizing" "girls" lol) but also, it's how i honest to god made my first gay friend. she was showing me her anime sketches on a school trip, and out of nowhere asked me "do you like yaoi?" (idk where you are now zanne but hope you're doing well 🙏🏽)

so, i guess that's why i'm a bit over-sensitive when people came into BL FANDOMS, thinking they're """""above""""" yaoi. like, i know the genre does have its issues, and i know people should write what they like. but EVERY DAY against my will i keep getting exposed to takes and they're honestly the reason i stopped reading non-canon dynamics for mxtx (even though i used to enjoy everything!!! rip 😭)

takes like (and i quote) "they're NORMAL human beings so of course they switch" "they both top and bottom that's love baby" "mxtx is so heteronormative why did she have to call wwx a wife :/" "the more you ask me to tag dynamics the harder lwj is going to bottom"

and just. to me it reads as absolute dripping condescension.

out of all the helpless and meek yaoi bottoms to take issue with (... no disrespect to paint/er of the night but it does come up as the first example, idk if it changed) they decide to pick on MXTX??? mxtx whose FIRST BOOK is an artful take down of genre conventions? mxtx who actually subverted the tropes herself by writing hyper-competent and badass MCs who are also bottoms, and GNC MLs who are tops? but no wwx and xl are powerful so they /have/ to top, and lbh experiences emotions so of course he's a bottom. wtf

to me this is similar to saying: "all yaoi authors are shit at writing women no exceptions, so yzy is obviously 100% a product of evil step-mother syndrome and not at all a well-written villain, so if you don't like reading good yzy then you're a misogynist."

#this is just same tired dynamics disk horse feel free to ignore #i lost steam multiple times writing this bc i think it belongs in my brain and ppl should write anything they want #but i really dont what more to do to avoid seeing these takes so i hope doing a word-vomit would purge this topic from my brain?#pls #ro talks #fandom wank #long post #also. the gall of that one person 'none of my previous [western] fandoms made such a big deal about it'#like bottomlockers and toplockers didn't have that whole feud

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the-real-rain-world-confessions · 21 days

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Time to be a bitter bitch and roast some iterator ships, i AM the fun police /jjJJJ

Sunstone, SRS/FP: the only one that makes a lot of sense in my opinion, but somehow their portrayal in fanon is absolute garbage so 2/10 (i personally consider them to be a 10 but i am judging the fanon versions). Pebbles is made into a helpless spineless baby and Suns just takes care of him idk what else to say. Their dynamic is heavily misunderstood often portraying them straight up as mentor/protege when in reality they're just not that

Trafficlights, NSH/SRS: very boring and plain, NSH is either a daddy dom or a cutesy little clown guy, both interpretations suck, while Suns is left with zero of their traits displayed in canon other than being anxious i guess, they're weirdly regal and arrogant in a lot of interpretations. Also largely yaoi-ified 0/10

Ragequit, NSH/FP: NSH doesn't like Pebbles and seemingly has little to no interest talking to him, on top of that likely based his entire perception of him on what Moon had to say about Pebbles. Pebbles is made into some tsundere tiny twink that blushes constantly and this is very common problem with his interpretations in general you guys can't understand him to save your life 0/10

Triple divorce or whatever the fuck SRS/FP/NSH is called: one heck of a dysfunctional polycule, considering that Sig and Pebbles straight up just don't like each other 0/10 Ragequit, trafficlights and sustone made shittier basically

Lilypad, NSH/LTTM: might be idk, i personally don't view their relationship as particularly romantic. Since I think they're good friends i give it a 6/10 even though them not being romantically involved with each other is much more appealing to me

Milkshake, UI/FP: how do you even come up with this did you play the game. Innocence was not helping Pebbles in the slightest by blackmailing the guy and the fact that Wind mentions that its likely an attempt to be mean says plenty. Although not much is known about Innocence it's safe to assume they do not like Pebbles or have any intentions to help him out. The yandere UI fandom stuff is ridiculous 0/10

Moonstone, LTTM/FP: im not into incest 0/10

Eclipse, SRS/LTTM: only exists because of a somewhat cool name

Pebbles/Straw: another nothing burger ship entirely dependant on one's characterization of Straw, not ranking it

Conclusion: 90% of the tumblr rw community needs to play the game

#rain world confession #shipping #tw incest mention

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medievildead · 1 year

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for the ship opinion bingo kratos/heimdall 👉👈

HOOOO BOY SORRY THIS TURNED INTO A RANT however you did ask for my opinion and this is my blog so you know what. I am gonna post it. And this will be the only time I talk about it.

I reeeeeally don't like kradall it creeps me out and I don't understand it at fucking all. I see people try to make Hear Me Out posts about them and AUs about them and it just makes less and less sense to me (and I KNOW this is bold ass words coming from me I KNOW) but the canon dynamic that does exist for them at no point to me ever at all in the slightest tipped me off or made me think to ship them. Never clicked.

Then again you gotta remember that I'm someone who has been autistic about Kratos since 2005 and I am so incredibly damn picky about shipping him unironically with anyone. Shipping Kratos with Heimdall knowing the kind of person Kratos is and what hes gone through to Become his new self in the norse saga just doesn't make sense. A lot of kradall I see (that isn't non/con honestly another huge reason I don't vibe with it is that a bunch of people use it as a bolt for r/pe stuff in the early moments of Ragnarok fandom) is just them in a very ooc marriage situation I can't wrap my head around. Throwing Kratos into a heavy intense relationship is dumb to me like it took him centuries to fucking get over Lysandra and then moving on to Faye and I'm expected to belive the Hear Me Out posts about why Kratos would be in a long term relationship with.... Heimdall? The guy who is a complete prick to giants? Who actively said misogynistic shit about Atreus' mom who Kratos still loves with his whole heart? And threatened to actively kill his 14 year old son? Kratos's son? Kratos who has lifelong trauma about his child dying from war? I'm not buying it im sorry. No way you cook it will convince me.

In the early points of the ships existence honestly felt to me like people who were into Heimdall just wanted to explore a crutch for brat breaking. But its just genuinley not something I'm into. I'm a firm believer of ship and let ship as long as its harmless and for the most part it is! It's people having fun but it's not for me and never, ever ever will be no matter what and there is a reason I don't talk about it on this blog.

I've been in this fandom a long time and let me say Kratos x Heimdall reminds me a lot of when GoW3 came out and people started shipping and writing tons of Kratos x Hermes dubcon stuff for the sole reason of yaoi fujoshi people wanted to fetishize the gay male power dynamic. Its like I honestly feel some people see a big muscular man and a smaller effeminate man and are like "oh I need to make one a submissive girl" like again I know its just words and pictures on a screen but I have been here long enough to be Very Tired of seeing my sexuality get used as a fetish tool sjshskdnks

And. And ill be honest. And this is petty and trust me this is literally just me and my opinion but I cannot fucking stress how utterly confused and flabbergasted because FREYR IS RIGHT FUCKING THERE. HE IS RIGHT FUCKING THERE. BLATANTLY INTO KRATOS, A COMPLETE KIND SWEETHEART FULL OF LOVE, EXACTLY THE KIND OF GUY THAT WOULD SHOW KRATOS A GOOD TIME AND HAS AN ADORABLE ONSCREEN DYNAMIC THAT DOESN'T EVEN NEED TO BE AU'd OR CHANGED TO MAKE SENSE AND THIS FANDOM DOES NOTHING WITH IT. I see so many AUs where Heimdall survives to get with Kratos and valid but you know what??? I am gonna be angry, WHERE ARE MY FREYR LIVES AUs. WHERE ARE MY AUs WHERE FREYR LIVES AND GETS KRATOS ASCENDED ON THAT VANAHEIM ZA???????

LIKE FORREAL. I honestly feel like this fandom gets so blindsided by Heimdall and wanting to put him in situations and hell I'm guilty of it too, but I have genuinley met GoW Heimdall likers that straight up forgot Freyr existed and it shocks me. I don't get it!!!!!!

Theres a reason I ship Heimdall x Hermes together and its because their individual dynamics are so unbelievably compatible and I like to explore that. But I get people wanting something more realistic in universe as a muse. When it does come to shipping Heimdall with someone else in canon that makes absolute dynamic sense to me, I gotta be honest, Heimdall x Gná is the only "heimdall gets a dom" pairing that I can realistically get behind. Since they both would actually like each other despite being hated by all their peers for their devotion to Odin. Is it healthy? No, but Kradall isn't exactly peaches and cream either. So we work with what we got babey!!!!

#god of war #kratos gow #heimdall gow #freyr gow #gna gow #gna #freyr #kratos #heimdall #god of war ragnarok #gow #gowr

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absolutebl · 2 years

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Hi hi :D back again after asking for the free recs (thank you again!), to ask about you're recs on gagaoolala, or did you already do a break down per platform? (and yes I'm procrastinating again...xD)

Of course, I'd be delighted, since source is one of those things I track I can go straight to the spreadsheet for this. I should say I am based out of the USA so what they offer will depend on where you are based as well.

GaGaOOLaLa BL Rec List

In some kind of order, my favorites at the top.

Rate 9/10 - absolutely recommended, faithful to tropes, happy ending, good chemistry, only few flaws or pacing issues, some parts have rewatch potential

Utsukushii Kare (Japan)

AKA My Beautiful Man

One of the best most Japanese BLs to release in the last decade, as weird and as messed up as any 2000′s yaoi: emo af and hella warped, entirely true to itself with no attempt made to modify its POV for modern sensibilities or current BL fandom. It used seriously old school problematic and kinky tropes, like whipping boy, for a truly uncompromising piece that also manages to hit up themes of communication, consent, and self acceptance. It’s a wonderful BL but uniquely dirty and harsh, in the best possible way - Japanese cinema, uncompromising.

My Ride (Thai)

Thai BL grew up with this pulp - a truly lovely and special little show featuring the extremely rare pairing of sunshine/sunshine AKA a cinnamon roll couple. Mature explorations of relationships using one of the softest, sweetest and most innocent friends to lovers vehicles. Kindly, overworked doctor meets broken-hearted motorcycle taxi driver in an “other side of the tracks” slow burn romance. The support cast is excellent, making for great friendship groups and family dynamics. With honest queer rep that adds to, but doesn’t impede the story, and genuine conversation about the nature of class, wealth, and classism, not to mention communication, honesty, and respect for boundaries, you can’t go wrong with this show. In other news, I am a sucker for a single dimple.

Our Dining Table AKA Bokura no Shokutaku (Japan)

Lonely salaryman and talented cook gets accidentally adopted by a college kid and his little brother. It’s a quiet & cozy little parable of found family alleviating loneliness. Possibly too slow for some but definitely high up there for me with the best of what Japan can do, it’s only flaw (if I dare say such a thing) is that it is not really “romantic.” Lovely & sweet but the romance beats are being used to build a family relationship, not just couple intimacy, it’s OK with me, but not traditional BL.

Step By Step (Thai)

This was Thailand’s answer to The New Employee, and everything I loaved about that show I loved about this one. This was an office romance between stern boss and sweet subordinate that felt more authentic to an office environment than previous Thai BLs of this ilk. And that authenticity added tension to the narrative and character development (how novel).

Takara & Amagi AKA Takara-kun and Amagi-kun (Japan)

I gnawed on my knuckles and squealed a lot with this show. Reserved cool kid who must learn to communicate to keep the tiny disaster nugget he’s madly in love with. It is beyond charming: soft and gentle, packed with cuteness and high school angst, thirst, & yearning. Was there plot? Not really. Was it emotionally tense and paced well enough for me not to notice? Absolutely. Did I enjoy the hell out of it? Oh yes. Full review.

Minato's Laundromat AKA Minato Coin Laundry AKA Minato Shouji Koin Randorii AKA Minato Shouji Coin Laundry (Japan)

A classic age gap romance where a high school student pursues the man of his dreams (who runs a laundromat). This BL is so steeped in yaoi tropes and archetypes, not to mention a typical romance arc, that it will overload some, but those of who love this genre for its DNA will adore it. It made me very happy because it did everything I want a BL to do - there’s not much more I could ask of a BL than this. It’s the closest Japan has come to perfect live action yaoi since Seven Days (and I never make that comparison lightly). Squee watch-along here.

Rated 8/10

recommended, some concerns around tropes (like dub con) or story structure but still satisfies as solid BL

Some More - Strongberry short (Korea)

One of my most favorite of Strongberry’s shorts, about a city boy on a bike tour who gets injured and rescued by a taciturn, but (as it turns out) very gay, farmer. Age gap, country mouse/city mouse, SO CUTE. Just too short.

DNA Says Love You (Taiwan)

DNA deserves extra marks for an upbeat approach to a queer story arc that other shows have systemically mishandled with sadness (in the guise of realism). There is a twist, which I found predictable, but knowing what would happen didn't spoil this show. The leads are luminous and engaging, and it’s full of queer found family representation and an unexpected amount of domesticity, plus it’s Taiwan, so the kisses are great. The last few eps really are special and life/love affirming - and the ending is big-grin charming.

Love Class (Korea)

This was a fast-moving, bloated, complicated little show with stronger than usual story structure, well-acted if lacking in chemistry, that managed to be very appealing and engaging despite itself. What it lacked in content it more than made up for in pacing. Both bingable and rewatchable.

Rated 7/10:

recommended with reservations i.e. isn’t quite BL, convoluted, not strictly HEA, too short/long, or chemistry issues.

Red Balloon (Taiwan)

I should probubly do a rewatch, I’ve never done a elevator pitch for this one. It’s been a LONG while. I actually havent’ ever watched it on GaGa, I got is grey years ago.

Papa & Daddy (Taiwan)

Cliff hanger ending, season 2 coming soon, recast one of the leads. No review because I’m waiting for the full series.

My Esports Genius Brother (China)

A strangely cute, somewhat incomprehensible, censored magical realism BL micro series about fated mates who balance each other out and must find the courage to stay together.

Long Time No See - Strongberry (Korea)

One of Strongberry’s few longer pieces and the rating takes into account the fact that I don’t think this is strictly BL. It’s about assassins on either side of a terf war who fall in love not knowing they are on opposite sides. Or do they? Good fight sequences, mature characters, high heat, very suspenseful, AND an HEA. If you like KinnPorsche you will LOVE this one.

La Cuisine (Thai)

A sweet and kind of pure show, and like Thai desserts perhaps requires too much patience for a layperson. Because of the pacing and the focus on the bad girl character, I did dock it. But if you like stuff in the Oxygen vein, then this show is for you, and far better than most Thai BL pulps. That said, I suspect that I enjoyed it more than many would.

Step For You -Strongberry short (Korea)

Microfilm from Strongberry about a reporter from the student newspaper who has to interview an older dancer and falls in love with him.

Private Lessons - Strongberry (Korea)

Another one from Strongberry that I love and given it is age gap and teacher/student (catnip) it shoudl go higher. The chemistry is slightly off though, but stil I do love this one. Certainly world watching especially if this is your trope.

Naked Dinner AKA Zenra Meshi (Japan)

A civil servant and seemingly perfect man has a secret: he likes to eat completely naked. I have to be honest, I didn’t really like much about this show. The central premise was too odd and the main character too clumsy & slow on the uptake. I like the food, but there have been food-set BLs before that failed to meet expectations. Too many of them. This one joined that throng. Good ending tho.

Pure Vanilla (Singapore)

It’s very sweet. Bit awkward acting. I love seeing real tats. I wish Singapore would give us a full proper BL.

Rated 6/10: worth watching but seriously flawed probably around the ending or in narrative structure/cohesion or censorship. I don’t always have notes on these because many I have only watched once and don’t usually recommend.

Being Me (Korea)

River Knows Fish Heart (China) - this BL managed to sneak by the censors probably because it’s not very well acted and low budget. It’s also in Addicted territory, only this time with the jock who falls madly for the nerd and then just moves into his house to takes over his life. The tsundere uke is VERY tsundere and the seme is hella pushy so it goes right into dubcon territory but also it’s very teen angst about it.

Legend of Long Yang Rebirth (China) - whipping boy trope... literally, servant character takes the strap for the prince, who then makes him his bodyguard and lover when he becomes king. Low budget historical, comes off as kind of cosplay wuxia version of Irresistible Love, but we get (in the credits) an actual kiss, and they both live. So yay for small mercies.

Paint With Love (Thai) - For me the mains were unlikeable and the actors had poor chemistry. So while this offered a lot of what I thought I wanted from a Thai BL - mature characters, office setting, adult themes - I’m wasn’t wild about the execution. I suspect Thai pulps are better when they stick to university/high school. This one felt like a better version of Loveless Society (not hard). The side dishes (Yoon & Yacht) gave us more chemistry and a better kiss but had little screen time. It was interesting to see them portray BL actors being shipped and then confessing to actually dating each others. I’m not sure how I feel about the handling of it but it was different from Lovely Writer. In the end, this show was nicely grown up but boring and became a matter of endurance for me. I can’t ever see myself rewatching it.

As if You Whisper - Strongberry (Korea)

My Pistachio - Strongberry (Korea)

Sonnet 18 (Korea)

Sweet Curse - Strongberry (Korea) - low-gore atmospheric horror but with very high heat BL.

The End Of The World, With You AKA Bokura no Micro na Shuumatsu (Japan)

Rated 5/10: watch it if you have nothing better to do but don’t expect much, it’s a total hot mess. A lot of these are shorts.

Faded (Taiwan)

Meet Me Outside (Pinoy)

Suddenly Last Summer (Korea)

Fanatic Love (China)

Every Moment that I Think of You (China)

We Are Gamily (Taiwan)

Innocent (Taiwan)

Light (Taiwan)

Two Weddings and a Funeral (Korea)

Secret Roommate -Strongberry (Korea)

Love Stage!! AKA Rabu Suteiji (Japan) - the Thai version is heaps better

Top Secret Together (Thai)

My Personal Trainer - Strongberry (Korea)

One Last Order (Korea)

List current as of Oct 2023 only.

Some shows that ALSO air on Viki in the USA may not be present, since I prefer to watch on Viki's UX.

(source)

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funshape · 11 months

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i love not knowing anything about forniaverse because the last thing i remembered about the blue guy (johnny i think???) was that he was straight and now i see the NDA broken post so i'll just assume it's both real

ok so heres the Forniaverse Clown Yaoi NDA lore

we've been in the talks about the possibility of johnny and arin being an actual couple for like... not very long since caliverse's ACTUAL creation LMFAO. like we both agreed theyd be good for each other, and them being together is pretty crucial to their development as people

the REASON me and trevor hid that from the public for so long is because we were REALLY worried that people were going to be REALLY weird about it. people as in my fanbase btw. people in my server were already saying veryyyy questionable things about the caliverse chars like romanticizing them for their mental conditions and just generally not showing signs of maturity around the story and its subject matter in an admittedly pretty tactless way, so when we first discussed the possibility of arin + johnny being together we agreed that there would be an 'NDA' to contain the details of their relationship and never share it with the public out of a fear of my fans woobifying them for being together and all that, you know how it is

its a shame that even had to happen! because johnny and arins dynamic is seriously one of the most thought out dynamics in the caliverse! we have put an ungodly amount of work into these two character's mannerisms and characterizations around each other, and to have to keep all that behind closed doors just because people following me cant just... be normal?? is really upsetting and very disappointing.

on the positive side though the general 'fandomization' of the caliverse has died down (and i use that term in a very derogatory way btw) a lot since we agreed not to share the details of arin + johnnys relationship, so we've decided to just come out and admit they were always together all along. hell we were doing this on the TOYHOUSE page with the 'they're just good friends :)' bit, it's been such an insane longcon but im happy things have gotten FAR more normal because it means we can actually discuss the nuances of their relationship and how it pans out instead of having to hide it out of fear of people misinterpreting it, so that's awesome

#californiaverse #and no this isnt CENSORSHIP do NOT jump to that conclusion #we had to put these dead bodies in witness protection LMAO

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yonpote · 4 months

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maybe people who were socialized as girls are more likely to like dnp for some reason. I don't know. A lot of fanbases attract certain types of people for difficult to measure reasons. Imo the important thing is to be inclusive of different identities, however common or rare they may be within the fanbase. I've never seen anyone openly *not* accepting of transfem people in the phandom, and im not sure its good to imply that the phandom is not accepting to transfems just because there aren't many. Unless there is evidence that there ARE people who AREN'T accepting of transfems, in which case please link them so i can block lol. tl;dr i don't think skewed demographics always means exclusion. look at the disproportionate amount of gays that love dnp, and they certainly never excluded straight people.

man the way you misconstrue what i say completely cmonnn. youre right, i DONT know any individual phannies in the community who are Explicitly against trans women and entirely know people who are accepting of them! but that doesn't eliminate internalized transmisogyny or maybe calling it like, cisnormativity would be better? idk maybe transmisogyny is not the exact word i am supposed to use, but you can't say There's No Reason for whatever. the reason dnp fans skew afab is bc we're all yaoi girls and yaoi is explicitly targeted towards cis straight women, and i know a handful of transfems who love bl

(and dont pretend like you dont love shipping men and youre different bc yes even if u dont ship these specific dudes whats the likeliness that u enjoy aziracrow or steddie even if u SAY u dont ship phan there IS a reason you were drawn to their dynamic in the first place)

#im not even gonna get into the whole thing about bl and slashfic bc i dont want it to come off as #'women writing slash is homophobic' bc its not #but at the same time all of the tropes we see in fic are there bc they are common romance tropes that stem from misogyny #women writing misogynistic tropes doesnt mean theyre misogynistic #but theres a REASON that SA and abuse are such common themes in romance

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lurkingteapot · 9 months

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It's here! I'm enjoying myself a lot and thought I'd share some bits and pieces, again, starting with the introduction.

Introduction: Boys Love (BL) Media and Its Asian Transfigurations by James Welker, in: Welker (editor), Queer Transfigurations. Boys Love Media in Asia. Honolulu: University of Hawai'i Press, 2022. p. 1–16. [Jstor]

I took notes by hand while reading, tried to type them up as coherently as possible here.

BL is an umbrella term for all sorts of media (going by volume, the primary mode is still written – prose or manga) that depict male-male romantic and sexual relationships and are primarily marketed to young women. BL has had fans 'around the globe' since the 1980s, especially in East and Southeast Asia, though it really 'dramatically expanded in popularity in the current century'. (p. 1)

Asian BL fandoms do not exist in isolation from the rest of the world (p. 2)

queer as in a) gender/sexuality-related expressions that flout social norms, b) queering norms of (female) sexuality and c) creating breathing room for queer individuals (p. 2)

there's no clear line between BL and LGBTQ media (p. 2)

why 'transfiguration'? -> transit from one culture to another (p. 3)

BL: minor and often underground as a genre, still

4 overlapping attributes of BL and fandoms: 1) transnational + transcultural media phenomenon, 2) useful tool for unsettling gender and sexual norms, 3) cannot be separated from LGBTQ issues including politics, 4) BL is political (p. 4)

note on piracy of BL, its impact on Japanese producers, and how this is rarely discussed (*) (p-5)

1980s/1990s: BL makes it to Taiwan, Korea, China -> category blurring? (p. 5)

shipping as a part of BL fandom (p. 6)

legal issues in Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore (p. 7)

shipping/fan works were a part of BL culture from the 1970s onwards (cf. Welker 2015) (p. 7)

seme/uke dynamics + shifts? -> mutability of gender (p. 8)

way of alternatives to masc stereotypes for cishet men (fudanshi) (p. 8)

blurring of gay and straight? (p. 8/9)

taboos around BL in Japan arise because it's often sexual and women engage with it (p. 9)

elsewhere in Asia: BL often serves as 'first conscious contact' for middle-class Indian and Indonesian fans with homosexuality -> may prompt reconsideration of own preconceptions/ideas/religious doctrine. (p. 9)

"representational appropriation" of images of gay men (cf. Ishida 2007) (p. 10)

fans turning activist for queer rights in Taiwan (p. 10/11)

rosy image of Japan among gay male fans of BL in mainland China (p. 10)

BL as progressive force for good (p. 10)

impact of US lawmaking on international fan communities (p. 10)

fan wars in South Korea (odeokku vs hujoshi) ca 2016; -> more recently: SK version of yaoi ronsou? (p. 11)

BL queer in that it flouts and facilitates the flouting of sexual and gender norms, has been pushing cishet fans to think about queer rights and the social standing of queer folks, sometimes even pushed fans to activism (p. 12)

grouping chapters under national/regional headings potentially misleading -> borders not so clear in the lives of fans and the texts they engage with (p. 13)

(*) I would LOVE to read more about this personally, anyone got anything? point me!

… this took entirely too long and I REALLY need to work on my handwriting, but I hope this might've been interesting to some. If you read this book (or anything else from the realm of BL scholarship), feel free to hmu, I'm an amateur but I love to talk this sort of stuff!

#acafandom #queer transfigurations #james welker #welker et al #bl history #bl academia #facets of bl #my nonsense #reading academic papers for fun not profit #hellsite (derogatory)#why do I even bother to try and format things nicely #guess at least they didn't kill my alt text for the images #if they had to rearrange them like it's 20-fucking-13

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joys-of-everyday · 1 month

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I just watched ContraPoint’s Twilight and so clearly, I need to write about BL. She even told me too! (2:42:40)

Firstly, if you know anyone who goes “why is BL so xxx (derogatory)”, this is an excellent video to point them to. Yes, it’s 3 hours long. That is how thoroughly it defends BL Twilight.

Secondly, I don’t particularly want to discuss whether I agree or not with the finer details of every statement Natalie makes. In broad strokes, it is an excellent video.

I hope from point 1, 2 it’s clear that I don’t want to reiterate too much that the video covers, so if you have time to do anything, I recommend going to watch it. That being said, I think there are interesting points to go deeper with the slightly different perspective of BL, so I’ll jot down some loose thoughts.

DHSM

So apparently… Twilight is yaoi coded? I’ve never watched or read Twilight in my life so maybe I’ve been sold the wrong impression.

Yaoi, and then BL, has always been constructed on narratives of power and its subversions. Pio makes an excellent post here linking to a neat interview which covers, from a different perspective to Natalie (who focuses on straight romance), some of the conversations around power and fantasy.

Natalie defines a framework in which this narrative exists: Default Heterosexual Sado-Masochism, or DHSM (1:26:47). This is a series of dichotomies that are often associated to each other: masculine, active, subject, lover, dominant, top… vs feminine, passive, object, beloved, submissive, bottom… Yes. It’s seme vs uke, gong vs shou. The criticism and defense of such narratives have been well-trodden, and Natalie gives a good account. I’ll leave that for now.

What I find interesting, and what Natalie mentions, is the natural scope of BL to subvert DHSM itself. Notable is the myriad of tropes that seek to subvert the common dichotomy – the feminine seme, the muscular uke, the younger seme, and so on, so forth. Or works where both parties play the roles of gong and shou – WWX’s active pursual of LWJ’s affections… hell, almost the whole of MDZS is LWJ being reactive to what WWX does, flipping the dynamic in its entirety.

But I think that even in its most standard, vanilla DHSM version of BL is already subversive of these expectations. The almost infamous “but I’m a man!” uttered so often by the uke when faced with the affections of a man (wow, gayness, how terribly exciting) can be interpreted as mild homophobia, yes, but it occurs to me now that it is a subtle marker of agency. The uke is surprised to be the object of desire. And thus we learn that object/beloved is disjoint from womanhood, even if the work doesn’t go as far as to untangle it from femininity.

Is that surprise in itself referencing the default view that men are not objects of desire (women are), and therefore problematic? Who knows. Then again, it do be the case that you can’t comment on a thing without presenting the thing. (*cough* Scum Villain *cough*)

Ah Power

“Is it really fine though?” says Natalie, halfway thought the video. (1:23:07)

I’ve defended BL to the moon and back. I still would. But always there is a little person sat in the back of my mind reminding me of all the moments I cringed. The overwhelming DHSM, the casual misogyny, the slightly bizarre takes queerness… Don’t get me wrong, there exist BL works flying in egalitarian gay space communism, and BL isn’t like… uniquely bad among media despite the frequent bashing it gets (have you watched the average shonen?). But I like BL. That’s why I know intimately all the issues it has.

My gay male friends tell me that BL often disappoints them because it’s not reflective of their experiences. Fair enough. I think a lot of BL (by the nature of what it is) is on the whole reflective of female (and Asian) experiences/perspectives. While I have no intention of telling anyone what they can and can’t write, it… idk, feels strange, that so much of society’s perspective on gay men (overwhelmingly so in Asia, and increasingly so in the West) is shaped by… not gay men.

Food for thought.

Another question that sometimes strikes my darkest hours is… why yaoi and not yuri? Why BL and not GL? Well it turns out that a lot of women (the main target audience, if you weren’t aware by now) are into men (Surprise!), so I guess that’s not particularly surprising. Then again, it seems reasonable to think there’s an element of wanting a blank slate. Woman is Other, said idk… Beauvoir. For a woman to woman, there must be a reason she womans. A female character cannot exist without navigating – explicitly or implicitly – social structures that work against her. Even a world that removes those barriers with the good old worldbuilding becomes commentary on today’s society. And ngl, the last thing I want to be thinking about when reading my escapist fantasy is the unfortunate circumstances we live in (*big sigh*).

Is that internalised sexism? Should I think deeply about my biases and my apparent inability to think of women as just people? Maybe. Sorry, my political correctness is not high on my mind when reading smut.

The seen seen, the desire desired

Who are you attracted to in BL? Some say you (the obviously female reader)(I’m feeling exceptionally sarcastic today, but I realise this doesn’t translate well to text) are meant to relate to the uke and feel attraction towards the seme. From experience… this doesn’t track. Often because erm… the audience of BL isn't all straight women it turns out.

But an interesting point that Natalie raises is the capacity for a reader to relate with characters in what are perhaps unexpected ways (cf Part 6: Identity). BL often jumps between the perspective of seme and uke. If straight fantasy gives women the opportunity to relate with both the desire and desired, then BL gives the capability of being everything at once – the powerful beloved, the pursued subject, the desire desired - through both the uke and seme. After all, how common is the sentiment “I don’t know if I want to fuck him or be him”? (I’m gonna digress and say I don’t think people mega-braining multiple POVs as they read BL, but I will highlight the way BL tends to portray both parties as loving and beloved.)

There’s something inherently voyeuristic or polyamorous about BL. Natalie states that blank slate characters are blank slate as to not generate envy – blurring the identity of the uke enough that they become indistinguishable from the reader. This is not the template of BL. The uke is often just as developed, if not more developed in character than the seme, with the reader’s capacity to relate to multiple POVs meaning they can see the uke from the outside, as separate, as object, as Other. Either the reader disappears in the narrative, everywhere and nowhere at once, or is tucked between them (“I want to fuck/be fucked by both.”).

Representation

In general, I prefer to be excited about what we do have rather than nitpicking the individual. Works that subvert tropes, tropes that subvert tropes, authors trying to better understand the queer community, conversations around what media representation we want to see etc. etc. get me excited. BL broadening its scope from escapist smut fantasy (tbc, nothing wrong with that) to more “mainstream” slice of life/fantasy type works is something I welcome. Some bits of BL fandom have been some of the nicest I’ve seen. It’s a community that I think is special, and whether I think media should be child friendly aside, I think it has the capability to be a really positive influence.

It strikes me that while BL isn’t reflective of the most standard gay male experience… it is, in some way, a gay male experience.

And I say this in a way that is literal for me and my trans brethren, but also maybe this is true more broadly, in an abstract sense. Natalie suggests that women relate to big, hulking alpha men in romance with a masculine element of themselves. When/if you relate to characters in BL, do you relate to them with a masculine element?

Well, not always and not everyone, and the gender of the characters themselves are often more complicated. ig what I’m trying to say, is that BL might not seem like an accurate reflection of the world to some, but it is a reflection of something, and maybe we should value that.

And as a final remark, I don't think anyone needs to intellectualise their interests as hard as I sometimes do. Keep enjoy what you're enjoying. You're doing great :)

#yaoi bl #contrapoints #contrapoints twilight

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victimsofyaoipoll · 7 months

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Round 4

Joan Watson

How were BBC Sherlock shippers so rancid about a WOMAN who wasnt even in the SAME SHOW?????

Martin Freeman of BBC Sherlock insulted Elementary and specifically Lucy Liu in the press. He straight up called Lucy Liu a "dog" in an interview APPARENTLY as a joke, because calling female actors ugly is hilarious. Benedict Cumberbatch was more measured about it, but he still said he was cynical about Elementary because it would lose the "male friendship" dynamic, which of course Johnlock shippers used against Joan Watson fans. Even the lead BBC Sherlock actors got in on the yaoi victimization of Joan Watson... 😔

she wasn't even in the same SHOW as the yaoi I've been convinced she deserves to win the entire poll. I was a Johnlocker but I did watch the first season of Elementary and it was fine????? It was totally okay????? Especially in hindsight given how hard Sherlock season four flopped. Also Lucy Liu is a queen and deserved zero vitriol for *checks notes* playing a character???? A fucking fictional character???????? Oh my god we were all SO mean to this show and we (or at least I) thought it was like The Good Fight™️, like we were defending BBC Sherlock against copyright infringement and straightwashing and Jonny Lee Miller's bizarre scarf, (it wasn't a good scarf I do stand by that) but then Elementary didn't make Holmes and Watson a couple either???? And also it didn't insult its audience constantly etc etc we've all seen the Hbomberguy Sherlock is Garbage video. This is really long sorry hashtag justice for Joan Watson.

Misa Amane

she gets treated in-canon the way fandoms treat female characters that Threaten an m/m ship. it's like, "oh why don't you go sit in the corner and be pretty, misa, while the Men have intelligent conversation and pretend they aren't ten seconds from fucking each other, doesn't that sound nice?" it's infuriating. and MAYBE it's better now but i remember her getting treated the same way in fanfiction too, like we all need to do just as badly by our female secondary characters as fucking tsugumi ohba, but with the added insult of making her be alternately oblivious of the relationship between light and L or actively trying to sabotage it—incompetently, of course, because god forbid misa be allowed dignity or moments of cleverness.

she's one of the first characters I think of when I consider old school fandom misogyny. The annoying bitch and clingy crazy gf allegations were AFTER HER ASS. She's also a lot more intelligent than people gave her credit for, but most seem inclined to take the Very Biased word of our unreliable, narcissistic narrator and his homoerotic arch nemesis and claim that just because she's bubbly and into romance that she's also a complete moron. Which is blatantly untrue. Everyone was afraid of Misa girlbossing too hard. Killing people and devoting yourself to the deranged twink of your dreams even though you know he'll never love you back??? Having a hardcore goth aesthetic and being so Hot even literal Death Gods are into you?? God forbid women do ANYTHING!

Not only is she the victim of yaoi culture, she is the victim of early 2000s misogyny by an author that wanted to introduce a girl character because he knew his male rivals were getting too homoerotic. She is a goth bimbo icon who portrays what I think is one of the few callouts for stan culture and what parasocial relationships can do to both the stan and the idol. The fact that she is a toxic fan of Kira and also hot, funny, sociable is tragic in its own way, which I think the author did try to touch on but was too misogynistic too really get through. Of course, she was reduced to villain status by the fandom and anime alike because she got in the way of the supposed romance in their psychological horror anime.

#round 4 #poll #joan watson #cbs elementary #elementary #misa amane #misa misa #death note

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sizhui · 1 year

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hi angie!! im jjst chilling today but today i plan to go out n buy my bday books!!!

anyways as a fellow bl intellectual i would like to ask u what u think abt general bl stock characters / archetypes!! also as someone whos doing shakespeare this year im curious abt how u would blend currently existing bl story formats w like more traditional lit genres / conevtuons IF YOU COULD!! WOULD U!!

how do u think bl being a mostly Not white people thing has affected its conventions like idk emotional intensity, typical tropes idk!!

looks at u like this 🥺

HELLO DEAR LAB!!!! i saw your birthday books, very good choices, i hope you'll enjoy! Now let us discuss one BL intellectual to another ^_^ as usual, I'll stick to danmei, since I'm simply not well read in Japanese and Korean BL to speak confidently even though I have experience with them...!

When googling people's favorite tropes, most people mentioned Enemies to Lovers. I do like a good conflict, but I like very specific shades of it... I like characters who are ideological opposites, but still hold some affection for each other since early on... Although i have been interested in thousand autumns in which the two leads start as straight up bitter enemies, so I'll see how I'm going to like that! Now, something slightly different that i really enjoy is characters being thematic opposites - demonic cultivator and orthodox cultivator, god and demon, soldier and librarian you name it! I have seen people call this the yin yang trope i don't know if that's a widely used term? I also enjoy slow burn - see Golden Terrace disappointed me in that regard cause they started sleeping together in like chapter 30 come on where is the drama the intrigue :(? I don't care for friends to lovers much unless it's written really well but i really much prefer strangers to lovers!!! A lot of people sigh at the trope of one Character being like "I don't like men it's..only for you ❤️" but i honestly think that's a convention you just have to accept when diving into the world of BL. I like badass shous that aren't annoyingly shy and talkative, charming gongs (sorry lan zhan is ok but strong and silent gongs usually piss me off) I'm probably one of the 5 western fans who actually like the gong/shou dynamic because like. Let's be honest there's nothing wrong with seme/uke in JPN bl either other than ukes being drawn as shotabait often, but since novel art for CN novels usually draws everyone looking like adults I really don't see anything problematic with gong/shou, heteronormativity my ass... i also kinda like when they call each other husband and wife SORRY. I also like the trope of the couple adopting a young boy. I'm not gonna call it found family I'm not gonna even try. I hate master/disciple and i hate school settings. I usually prefer the characters to be rougher men already hardened by life! I like reincarnation and revenge but i don't like Isekai ... Ummm what else is there? Nothing comes to mind rn , if you have some specific tropes you want me to rate, I'm here :)

NOW YOUR SECOND QUESTION HAS ME REALLY INTRIGUED...if i could, i would merge literally every literary genre with BL to be honest. Since you specifically mentioned Shakespeare, i think it would be fucking amazing to see BL adapted into stage plays - i don't mean those funny anime stage plays, i mean straight up tragedies on Hamlet level. Oh i would kill to see that!!! I would also love to see like, someone with an interest in narratology and metafiction write a super meta BL novel like enstars but like really properly yaoi. I don't think that danmei novels written by amateurs have "bad writing" - they simply exist on a different terrain and seek to communicate different ideas from traditional published novels, but i would love to see the two merged in some spectacular novel that takes inspiration from classics!!

Now your third question i would rather turn into a discussion with you, because while I've consumed a lot of East Asian media since a young age i don't claim to have such a good understanding of the cultures to be able to trace how the culture influenced BL literary conventions, but I would love to hear your thoughts on it and compare to what i know! I definitely find it interesting to compare East Asian BL with LGBT media made by white Americans and Europeans, cause they tend to rely on very different things, with American and European gay content being very focused on the issue of homophobia and stuff like family and cheating and coming of age, while Asian BL, despite tackling those sometimes, is more internal conflict-driven, less focused on orientation. I actually prefer it a lot for that - there are only so many coming of age homophobia stories i can watch -_- boring! I see some western fans annoyed that Asian BL rarely discusses orientation and stuff like LGBT solidarity and such, but i like, don't care cause i feel like they're too focused on realism and forget that bl is a genre not meant to perfectly mirror irl gay relationships, but rather provide romantic fantasies for women! Something just came to mind, i recently chatted with a classmate who is a white American, and she said that she finds Asian media confusing because emotional intensity seems amplified to her in anime and donghua, and that she just feels that emotions are expressed differently than in the American media she's used to. I think she's weak and stupid for giving up on watching just because it's different from what she's used to, but since you mentioned emotional intensity, i would like to hear your thoughts about it!

I hope my answer wasn't disappointing, and looking forward to hearing back from you!

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catlokis-blog · 11 months

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gubby boomer pride hcs?

grins big and wide like the grinch ... Why of course

ive said this before but i just rlly love the idea of them being polyamorous (but not a throuple!) it makes my gay little heart happy to see representation of polyam dynamics that isnt just "everyone dates eachother" so ive always been super fond of the gubby boomer co-existing version of goomby

i dont think gman would be fond of the idea of going to a pride parade so bubby would stay home with him and make a day of it... especially since gman has always preferred one on one conversation rather than large groups

theyre both autistic. by the way

bubbys relationship with coomer has helped gman lose some of the bristle when talking in groups but he still prefers bubby to be part of the group when its happening

he does have a good friendship going with coomer though just prefers to stay in small gatherings at the most

they probably wouldnt do anything huge, gman has always been someone who prefers to be a passive observer so they probably watch some scary movies

bubby blabs his head off about parts of the movie he likes and picks apart motives and themes hes seeing in movies he isnt familiar with, just straight up love gushing about the movies he has seen

gman doesnt mind since he knows what watching movies with bubby is like especially when its of the horror genre

with coomer however bubby goes out because coomer is a very gung ho type of individual and likes to do stuff

coomer is also autistic

they might stop by a parade for a little while but bubby would eventually get bored and want to hit the bricks and do something else

they probably just have a day out on the town after that... bubby enjoys seeing the sights and coomer shows him all his favourite spots and things to do in them

bubby probably convinces coomer to show off some of that strength hes really into

overall bubby has a fun time with both his partners for their desingated pride day

oh and of course theres a healthy amount of flirting and homoeroticism for each partner of his. it isnt old man yaoi without a little bit of teasing & prodding from both parties

#cats thoughts #gubby #boomer #hlvrai #WOOHOO thanks for asking anon #although i have a sneaking suspicion youre one of my friends whos giving me an opportunity to gush im TAKING IT ANYWAY

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dirhwangdaseul-archived · 1 year

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a rant

man y'all lead some real weird boring ivory tower lives with very little thought into your morality like very superficial morals really, i always knew the bl fandom was like that to more often than not the point of amorality with how easy they participate in certain dynamics supposedly in the name of fiction and romance, a conversation for another day like you ever think you could have more out of the text you're being given? cause man every damn time there's a bl with a dynamic of power that involves labor, consent is never part of the conversation, like is it even possible for palm to consent, is it even sth they can call part of the reality of the couple's love with how much the world is gonna try to tear palm and nuengdiao apart, like how does the commentary on labor escape the discussion of the messages of the series proper of what that means for two people to have to participate in said dynamics by force with one being less in the eyes of an empire than that of the king he protects... nor is it participant in the conversation what it means for a character to diminish themselves for the hierarchy of that empire which is maintained through the power money entails like ever, and being quite honest it's not isolated to bl using this kind of setting that this happens, years of romance exist before yaoi, where bl has its roots and which ofc simply borrows from straight romance things we still see in the feminization of one side of the couple but also a conversation for another day...

like, this all to say that i saw someone call nueng's mom a good mother in the tags man and i had a moment of why are stories never understood to be the sum of its parts rather than one isolated moment, and i really had to double check it was the actual never let me go tag because i don't think we're watching the same show people, i think you're showing how much you have sold yourselves to romanticizing capitalism and the hierarchies it creates to the extent you don't see or think about what it really means for palm to have to become subservient to someone else's literal life, to have to give up his life because another's is being held above his own, that palm knows that he will always be less than nueng whether nueng wants to accept the circumstances of their reality or not, and that nueng keeps wilfully ignoring it.

that this has been plotted by their parents together escapes you in its full magnitude like so much of what palm's dad does to palm flows from tanya, just because she's warm to nueng while she tells him that his life and worth are forever tied to an empire that has taken over the lands and livelihoods of thousands of people? it doesn't erase the weight of her entitlement, control, and thus her power, and that instead of creating trust in her own family, she decides to burn all bridges to isolate nuengdiao while also pronouncing the treatment of palm as a servant like i don't know where to fault the writers and where to fault the character because i believe a good dose of self awareness would serve either in trying to convince me and palm that his life is worth less than the money that is gonna be given to his father or to him before palm indeed has to die for nueng like if he turns i won't wonder why because idc there's no universe in which one life can be traded for some capitalist bitch's ambitions, this isn't even the mafia which entails cult like understanding as well of a rough world and trading one's life for some fucked up higher purpose, and like even there it's some sick shit to feed romance, like tbh the world has to justify it for me at least, but there the violence of what they have created justifies in some level laying one life for another person like the understanding of that higher purpose, but here for nueng and palm, here where money is so visible as the root of despair and separation.... palm doesn't get to have that fucking luxury, not in this story, he's falling for the charm of his charge, sadly, the romance is there for him baiting his very innocent understanding of life, how could it not bloom and be in him in such fucked up circumstances where nothing yields love for him, and yet, yet a part of him screams... servant... for he understands his degradation whether nueng sees it yet or not

SERVANT... one of the two in this sweet sweet sweet couple is dehumanizing himself in the performance of his labor AND the romance being joined together, his worth is tied to someone that sees him from the outside, but who chooses to obscure his eyes to who he really is, like again this is part of this supposed romance, palm's participating happily in his own dehumanization and somehow i'm meant to find the romance in how little control palm seems to have of his life and how much the creation of meaning is coming from nueng like it's insane how this commentary is there, the creation of a soulmate of a sick and twisted fairytale, and yet i do see some of you acting like the divine right of kings when it comes to nueng's position and his blindness towards that power, and just because tanya sells it with a warm smile and kind words doesn't make the destruction of land or the dehumanization of her workforce any less fucked up, tanya accepted her son, good for her, that should be the norm make no fucking mistake tho, but honestly let's go back to thinking into the fucking structure of the story, what choice does she has anyway i wonder???? when she has denied other families into her own, when she has denied her own family, so now even a tension now runs between chopper and nuengdiao over it, tanya is not a good mother, and honestly with the way the grayness of the show and jojo tichakorn's other works usually go....

i would just stop trying to categorize the characters as good or bad if you even believe there's such a way to see people in general, cause man live long enough to know you get the chances to be all, and like that's what gets me about fandom and stories like this, since for example where your eyes linger which clearly laid out freedom as the only means for this romance to work with a happy ending and not some romanticized worker abuse and people still preferred the power dynamic to thrive over getting to a moment in which both characters could consent freely in their meeting, and like i wish we actually got a better characterization for palm till this week when maggie stepped in finally to talk some sense into him because boy was he just reacting to everything only and he keeps falling for the beauty of his charge without caring for himself, like with all the messages of anti capitalism id expect a more critical view of the levels of the relationships and what their carefully crafted images present to us that's all like that's all im saying, my thoughts in the end but honestly i just don't believe tanya to be a good woman, she's just warm and kind in her life, but that hides how much she and her husband fucked up and are leaving an empire of shit to nuengdiao, i honestly hope he and palm get out, but most importantly i want nuengdiao to wake up to the fucked up amount of power he has, like for once i'd also like the writers to take this shit seriously if they're also gonna refer to real world politics...

#never let me go #or will the writers much like fandom fall in their owb trap and romanticize the fucked up dynamics #like don't yall enjoy the true fucking power of explored convoluted politics #and the mess it can create in characters with critical thinking skills #pp #also tell me you have never known dehumanization in the workplace nor are you capable of recognizing #situations where you might risk that and thus becoming participant in your own dehumanization #sorry if im being condescending im high and its 4am almost lmfao #and im a communist first so fuck nuengdiao fuck his mom fuck chopper too for good measure #although chopper is.......... angel shaped....

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cartmandotcom · 2 years

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Why Creek is Overrated, and We Shouldn’t Protect it so Hard [With Brief Ship Culture Commentary]; An Essay

AKA the post that makes people stop liking me

Before going straight to Creek, I’d like to touch a little on how shipping in the South Park fandom began, since the pairing goes waaaaay back. Stendy is a good point to start when going into the rabbit hole.

Stendy was the founding father of shipping culture in the fandom, the amount of shippers and fanart it cultivated paved the road for a lot of other ships to form. It set up a simple structure, people seemed to be going with ships with canon back up too.

Shortly after, we saw Kybe happen, and then Creek. The episode “Tweek vs Craig” seemed to set them up as enemies. We all know what happens when two male characters become enemies in popular culture 😒

Enemies to Lovers (which is very very flawed in ways I won’t be getting into for now) was carrying Creek, but it quickly became evident that the enemies dynamic was only a plot device that would be used in that single episode.

They didn’t have ANY interactions that could be considered notable or add depth to their relationship. Their entire world was being carried by some Yaoi lovers. The fuel for the ship was a broken enemies to lovers story, and they were running out. I’m surprised Creek didn’t die there in Deviantart, waiting to become canon.

But, by miracle, it was given legs. I’m sure when Matt and Trey discovered the Yaoi craze and started looking for ships to make an episode on, Style was completely out of the window since they were too relevant to change the dynamic of.

Creek was the only viable option for a canon gay ship. It was lackluster, stupid, and dying, but like HELL Matt and Trey make that bitch WAKE UP

Canon Creek is very small. I wont be referencing the episode Tweek x Craig, since it’s more of get together episode rather than a developing the relationship episode. That episode gave Tweek and Craig a dynamic without depth. Okay, cool, we have Put It Down to look forward too. An episode about our favorite gays in the middle of a season FULL of romance? Sure.

Put It Down did a good job at putting down the bricks that could build the canon pairing. Tweek and Craig face a problem and overcome it. We see how they respond to each other in a deeper level. Now, the ship has its dynamic along with very shallow development. We have not gotten a creek episode since, and this is why.

Is Creek adorable? Yes. Is Creek a great step for representation? Yes. Is Creek a Fanon ship? Absolutely. It’s a ship that was manufactured by fans for fans, it had no grounds before and still barely had any. Matt and Trey gave us a couple and said bye.

Fanon ate it ALIVE. Sexualization, glamorization, and overprotection. In reality, this ship has no soul. Whenever I consume Creek media, the only thing that reflects canon is Tweek losing his fucking shit and Craig responding with “it’s okay” because that’s all they are!

I’ll say now that I enjoy Creek. Some parts of Fanon Creek are wonderful, even (I still smile when I remember the marriage comic dub). But it has no soul. They don’t get enough screen time together to build a genuine ship on.

That’s why ships like Style are safe and typically non toxic. Style has screentime, a strong dynamic, and lots of cute moments and small details platonically. It’s cute and is enjoyable both ways. They’ve been a snowball rolling since the beginning of the series, and have had enough time together to make a great pairing in many scenarios.

Tweek and Craig did not give a flying fuck about each other

But we, the South Park fanbase, are the Yaoi shippers at South Park elementary. We saw it, made it, and it became so powerful it turned real, even if it had nothing going for it. It’s just a broken, fandom engineered ship. You’ll get shit if you say you don’t like it, or if you pair Tweek and Craig with other men.

In my opinion, ships outside of Creek have more substance. Tweek probably has a better dynamic with the main four than he does with Craig, and that was ages ago.

If enjoying a good ship means breaking up a Fandomstein, so be it. Our enemy in SP Shipping Culture is not Creek or no Creek, but rather shitting on the god awful ships.

This is messy and happened as a result of me being judged and treated badly on discord for saying I liked Clyde x Craig, I probably won’t make revisions.

If I write a follow up to this where I fix Creek, I will link it here ^^

&& Essay Over ⭐️💖

#sp creek #craig x tweek #forgot to tag #south park #southpark #craig tucker #tweek tweak

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