1899 and Black Silence: plagiarism or not plagiarism?

The funniest thing on the internet right now is the accusation of plagiarism towards 1899, and I say it sarcastically.

Yesterday my boyfriend sent me the Reddit post about Mary Cagnin accusing 1899 and Netflix of plagiarism, not only because I am a fan of the series but because I am studying Communications and contemporary media for creative industries at university.

After I approached the news as a fan, I recollect my emotions –plagiarism is a huge deal for someone in my field of study – and I approached it with analytical eyes.

First of all, I went to read Mary Cagnin's tweets. While reading them, they seemed based on true accusations but the thing that didn't add up was the fact that she approached the situation in a very strange way: if I will ever notice that a worldwide TV show was based on my work without my consent, fuck all, I'm going to call my lawyer and put down that show whatever it takes. It was strange for me that she didn't do that and just decided to post it on Twitter.

At this point, I had only one thing to do, go and read Black Silence to see what were the similarities myself. Spoiler from here on.

1) The pyramid. There is a pyramid in both shows but that's where the similarities stop. The pyramid in 1899 is a device to control the end of the simulation, in which the characters find themselves. In the comic, the pyramid is a monolith nearer Kubrick's 2001: A space Odessy monolith than 1899's black pyramid.

2) The triangles in the eyes of the character. Yes, this point is very similar, I have to say it, but it's totally different altogether. In Black Silence, the triangles appear when the character becomes entirely subjugated to the Black pyramid voices, they start to lose control of who they are and do. In 1899 the pyramid only flashes in the eyes of the character only for a few seconds when the simulation tries to wake them up, tries to make them feel that something is wrong with where they are. (I interpreted it this way.)

3) Multinational crew and space setting. Both works have these, such as Star Trek, Doctor Who, Battlestar Galactica, Stargate, and whatever sci-fi tv show you can think about. They are two fucking tropes that everyone who writes science fiction use, I'm writing a thesis about Star Trek and how its multinational crew in space was a social shock in 1966's America and 1976's Italy. Repeat after me: "USING SIMILAR TROPES IS NOT PLAGIARISM", even so in this context.

Black Silence's crew is multinational but they were selected based on individual fields of expertise and they communicate in the same language because they need to communicate for the good of the mission. In 1899 the crew is multinational for chance, at least at the start of the show. They board a ship to go to America and the languages they know are the ones they needed during their life. Multinationalism and multilingualism in 1899 are a disadvantage for everyone and everything, it studies the language barriers and what they implicate in the society.

As I said before, almost every sci-fi tv show has a space setting. Did we have to call plagiarism on everyone? No, because it's only a setting that anyone can use whenever he/she/them wants. If we want to point fingers at all costs: 1899's final is so much more similar to the ending of the USA version of Life on Mars (2008) than Black Silence.

4) The deaths. Now, what can I say about this? That Black Silence death remembers me more of Doctor Who's "42" (3x07) death than 1899? The suicides in the comic are real for the character, they die at that moment and do not come back. In 1899 they are literally deleting strings of a program, they moving files to the waste bin: the simulation has finished and they are deleting all the data to start again.

5) The symbols. In 1899 the triangles are comparable to machine code, it's a language used to communicate while being in a simulation. The Black Silence symbols aren't explained and personally, I thought of Doctor Who's "The Impossible Planet" (2x08) when I saw them drawn.

In conclusion, no, 1899 is not copied off Black Silence. Do they have similar tropes and aesthetic choices? Yes, but that's not plagiarism. Or is the comic creator's distress caused by the show. There are a lot of stories based on spaceships, whit multinational crews and can I skip how many times the triangle and the pyramids are used in sci-fi? Just to mention one movie, Stargate (1994) where the spaceship is a pyramid that came to Earth a lot of time ago, aliens possess human bodies and the triangle is the symbol of the Earth.

You can't stay on social media and believe everything you read as true without searching for information on that topic.

I don't really know why the author tweeted about this. I have my theories, but they are that and nothing more. What really scares me about the situation is the people's reactions.

You can't spread hate like it's salt on fried potatoes.

You have an entire universe in your hand every single day, use it with caution, please. On the other side of your screen there are still real people with emotions.

Seeing a lot of people being extremely xenophobic/mean to Mary because of all the 1899 plagiarism allegations. Like, it's fine if don't think they did it but there's no reason to be an asshole towards a brazilian independent artist. You could just say "I don't think they're similar" and move on with your life, there's no need for all that hate.

I hate when I start obsessing about a particular viral post that I disagree with, but recently a Brazilian author on twitter claimed that 1899, the new show on Netflix, was plagiarised from her comic Black silence. And like if you've even barely read the comic (which is like less than 100 pages) you can easily tell it's not similar at all.

I am posting this as someone who has both watched 1899 and read her comic.

Mary cagnin (the author) in her tweets has basically caught peoples attention by showing one panel of a black pyramid on the surface of an alien planet on her comic compared to a shot of a black pyramid in 1899 in the simulation, and tried to say they're copied the triangles in eyes in the promo shots by showing 3 panels of triangular lights being reflected in people's eyes.

Like this is what she has listed as similar points between the Stories. She even brought up having a multinational crew as a part of the plagiarism, like that is not what plagiarism means. Like basic mystery story structure is what she is claims 1899 has copied from her.

There is nothing similar about being on a steamship filled with over a thousand people going to America but turning out to actually be a simulation (1899) and being on a spaceship with a small crew going to another planet and the main guy finding out that one of the other crew members basically strong armed and manipulated him into joining the expedition (black silence).

None of the interesting plot points of 1899 have been copied from the comic, there is no time loop, no amnesia fuckery going on. 1899 has more in common with the matrix.

I feel like she could have mistakenly thought it was copied because she saw 1899 promo and was so familiar with her own work that she feels like it was very similar, but a casual reader would not have connected the two had they read it.

But her immediately going viral with this, posting it on twitter with the most generic similarities and vague, misleading proof makes me really annoyed, because there is support from so many people and it is therefore being covered by articles already.

The link to her twitter thread: https://twitter.com/marycagnin/status/1594190866041610240?t=3HStKP5DAr7lYEhe_e4ChA&s=19

💔

I hope Bo and Jantje bankrupt Mary Cagnin and make her regret the day she decided to do self promotion using someone else's work.

Such a pathetic artist.

And I hope that Netflix also fails, seeing the content it produces lately I don't think it will be difficult

Have you guys heard of the plagiarism claim about the new 1899?

in 2017 a brazilian comic artist wrote the story Black Silence and she claims in her twitter, with many pictures and plot related things, that 1899 is a copy of her work. The black pyramid, the triangles in people’s eyes, the unknown writing, some character’s personalities and developments, the deaths, the unexplicable things...

in that same year, she was invited by a european fair to talk about her work and she distributed versions of the comic in english there. (I’d give you the name of the fair, but twitter just deleted her tweets)

And I, since I did not read nor watch, had no opinion on the matter

until

the creators of the show answered the allegations in a way that, hm, baby, you’re an asshole.

You know when someone is accused of racism and they’re like “oh, this person only wants to be famous”? (in Brasil racism is a fucking crime, so this is something that we hear quite a lot)

They went “this girl only wants to sell her comic, boo! we are not taking her seriously!” and it was so ugly that, of course, they had to delete it and write a less “I’m clearly guilty and I’m trying to make people not believe this way less influential person”. The thing they didn’t know is that the comic is free. 

She’s not selling anything, its been free online for a while.

I will read the comic and then I will watch the series and then I’ll say what I ting from the pieces of media. Of course I’m gonna watch it from illegal sources so netflix doesn’t count my view for them.

Remember that big corporations tend to steal intelectual work from people. Remember that Europe was built from stolen things from America and Afrika. 

They are used on using us to make money. 

She’s already gotten legally against netflix. A fucking single person, a woman, a brasilian woman against fucking big netflix. If it was “to sell” her comic, she wouldn’t risk so much money there. I’m rooting for Mary Cagnin

Omg that Brazilian artist is so desperate. What a shitty thing to do, riding off the success of others.

News flash, you don’t own the concept of pyramids, sweetie, or what they historically represent. That’s not how plagiarism works.

Like, based off her claim, she plagiarized Yu-Gi-Oh herself cause there’s pyramids in Yu-Gi-Oh too.

https://twitter.com/marycagnin/status/1594190866041610240

Brazilian artist Mary Cagnin accuses Netflix of plagiarizing a comic she drew in 2016 for its new show ‘1899′.

Thank God, the cast is talking about this fucking absurdity.

Also some moron in the comments was 'well, the author felt wronged so it's plagiarism'.

THAT'S NOT HOW IT WORKS.

'YOU HURT MY FEELINGS THEREFORE IT'S PLAGIARISM' IS NOT HOW IT WORKS.

Plagiarism is a real fucking issue that is resolved in court. Not in fucking twitter where some moronic author saw a triangle in a show that had nothing to do with her stupid comic, didn't watch said show and then started to claim they had stolen her plot.

She didn't invent fucking triangles as symbols in Sci fi. Nor multinational crews, nor anything she claims it was 'stolen' from her. She is an attention seeking arse that saw the opportunity to bake her stupid comic on the popularity of other people's work. She literally didn't watch the show, but encouraged people to read her comic. Like be for real people, it's clear she invented this because people on twitter have no braincells and no thoughts of looking for actual evidence when someone is accused of something.

So, I just finished watching Netflix' 1899, and I wanna discuss it, but there are some things I need to get out of the way first.

There have been accusations that 1899's story was plagiarized from the graphic novel by Mary Cagnin, Black Silence, and I do have to agree there are a lot of similarities between the two.

1899 takes place on a steam ship traveling from Europe to America, along the way they encounter something out of the ordinary and the Captain decides to turn the ship around and head back to Europe. A decision that causes the passengers to mutiny and turn the ship back to its planned course. But more and more strange thing keep happening on board and members of the crew and passengers keep dying mysteriously.

Black Silence takes place in a far flung sci-fi future with the crew of military space ship on a mission to search for terrestrial planets that might be habitable. They land on one such terrestrial planet and find it to be an uninhabited dessert, except for one single and monolithic pyramid. Strange things start happening and members of their crew die. But military command orders them to continue the mission.

There are a number of similarities between the two. Such as the pyramid.

and the accompanying triangle symbolism.

Every member of the cast has experienced loss or tragedy.

and there is a suicide by jumping.

I can easily see how one could claim that 1899 was stolen from Black Silence. I'm not gonna say whether or not it was for sure, because I don't understand intellectual property law, nor do I have the training to tell if it was a malicious copy, or just a case of a later work being influenced by an earlier work (either consciously or unconsciously).

But, I do believe this controversy be acknowledged before I start posting about 1899.

(Additional 1899 posts to follow.)

I seriously considered they would be going to cancel it since the start of all that plagiarism nonsense.

Thoughts on the 1899 plagiarism accusaion:

So that Brazilian comic author 'Mary Cagnin' is accusing 1899 of plagiarism bc of pyramids? Really!?? Her arguments all go back to the use of pyramids and triangles!?!? ...

1) If you've been on the internet at all in the last years pyramids have always been present in media and associated with mystery and i think it goes all the way back and stems from the pyramids of our world being one of the world's wonders and their creation long being a mystery and that kinda being used w stuff like to those silly illuminati conspiracy theories. Ffs i've even heard ppl talk about triangular shaped UFO'S... This is to say that, triangles/pyramids in that sense have culturally gained a sense of mystery or 'evil' to them, a sense of someone at the top scheming and plotting mysteriously.. So i see why films or especially 1899 would choose triangles for their simulation plot like it's reaaaaally not that ORIGINAL from her or unique to her.. She didn't invent triangles/pyramids.. she's acting like she's the first to think of triangles/pyramids for mystery stories... Also if u notice, the creators of Dark used a similar symbol in Dark the 'triquetta/triquetra' thingy it resembles a triangle too so those creators HAVE ALWAYS been about including symbology and numerology into their work..they looooove that. I can totally see how a pyramid made sense to them creatively for their simulation plot outside of "copying from Mary".

2) The triangle eye thing, seems compelling/condemning at first, but buuuut it depends and i'll have to read her comic... Do her characters have triangular pupils all the time or just when they wake up!?? Bc in 1899 it's just when characters wake up. And honestly i can also see how they came up w that outside of copying from Mary, bc they only showed triangular pupils when their characters were waking up and i can see how that's a directory/cinematic decision just to give the audience a little clue about what's going on and hinting that they're in a simulation, the simulation that keeps being represented w that pyramid (bc get it!? Someone at the top is scheming and playing w them).. This is why the triangles WERE EVEEEERYWHERE IN THE SHOW IN DRESSES, EARINGS, HAIR CLIPS, FLOORS, Walls, carpet, letters... ETC..

3) As to her other arguments about: deaths, character drama... Like gurl seriously!?!!!?? EVEEEERY SHOW OR MOVIE EVEEEEEEERRRR has deaths and character backgrounds or drama unless it's a reaaaally shitty show.

4) That panel that shows her character waking up from hibernation, that is also a common theme in sci-fi space movies, like if ur characters are in space you have to write that they go thru sleep hibernation for long distance space travel, eveeeeery space movie has that, Interstellar has that, Prometheus has that, like it's NOT SMTH SHE CREATED WTFF!?!? and in 1899 they woke up from a simulation not hibernation so that's already not even the same but since 1899 is gonna go in a space direction in season 2 she should expect space themes going along... That doesn't mean they copied her it's just how the formula of space movies works in the sci-fi genre.

5) The multi-national crew, like really!? Now that we're in a time in media where we're finally encouraging inclusivity and diversity and representing different groups of humanity, you wanna take away that!?? In fact, in 1899 it seems more thought out, purposeful and celebrated. Whereas in her comic, it's the result of the fact that her story is about a crew in a space mission and most of the time in movies or even in reality all space crews are pretty diverse that's just a representation of reality...Also since 1899 is going in the direction of space in season 2 she better expect alot of common space themes or cinematic formats THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S COPIED..

Do you know why the view count on Lily’s “Steven Universe Is Garbage And Here’s Why” video tantrum keeps on going up, BUT the number of comments on that same video keep on going DOWN? I don’t know if Youtube is just glitching out for me or what, but its just something weird that I’ve noticed happening with that rant over time.

It is by a VERY long shot LO’s most popular video and probably has gotten her more money than even her Patreon, but I just don’t know why the number of comments on it would be DECREASING. Since the number of views on it are still steadily INCREASING as of the sending of this ask!

LO deletes any comments she doesn't like. there's really no deeper explanation than that. there are probably some comments with some critiques and points that she left because she could dunk on them or she just ignored them at the time, but later realized she didn't want them actually and went to delete them. she used to have up the comment from the non binary black writer she plagiarized for the "racism" section of the video, calling her out on her enbyphobia with the words "just say that you hate non binary people and go". back when that first came out, LO kept it up but didn't respond or even aknowledged the critique on any sort of way. now, if you look for that same comment, is nowhere to be seen. she took it out, just like she took out the credit for the also plagiarized by her video from robotbuddies when robotbuddies said their own video (and by extension, the portion LO's stole) was bad and doesn't stand by it anymore. as a side note, i want to take the chance to recommend this video of someone making a restrospective on Steven Universe and how much the amount of hate this show got actually affected them as a child... as the actual target demographic for this show. it's a lot better than checking her video that only gets uglier the more you listen to it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6lIXNaEreA&t=1899s

About the black silence /1899 situation

It's not an innocent accusation, made by a mistaken belief anymore, this is not being covered by all sorts of entertainment news articles that shows up worldwide.

I've already seen articles, not about the plagiarism accusations, but about her because of the fame she has gained by making these accusations. These articles have described her YouTube channel and her other works and have basically make an artist profile for her (https://www.thefocus.news/culture/who-is-mary-cagnin-art-and-career-of-black-silence-comic-artist-amid-1899-claims/) ps. Don't actually open the link and start giving them viewer counts for this bullshit reporting.

She has a youtube channel which will stand to gain more subscribers, her other socials, etc. She is actively gaining from this, people worldwide have read her comic not, free or not. (That was an hour wasted seriously) if she actually had any integrity she would have contacted a lawyer asap, at least when her numerous supporters came forward with advice to do so, and then taken down the inflammatory tweets and used her recently gained influence to tell people to lay off.

But she hasn't.

Also PS for all the people supporting this artist cause 'support small artists' this should not be the good fight against a mega corporation for you, this should terrify you, because all this proves is that people will not believe your claims, all they believe is who they can identify with more. After all, everyone loves a good underdog story.

The thing that makes me so mad about this Black Silence and 1899 case is that it's rare to have shows of this quality (especially on Netflix) and I am scared that this whole thing will destroy the chance of the two creators/writers to be appreciated as much as they should be... Those people are actually thinking hard about what they are writing and offers intricate and daring stories. And to even think some people would think they plagiarized it from something else.... I understand that Jantje's comment might be taken as rude and maybe it was but I also understand why she would be so frustrated.

I would encourage people to watch "making 1899" to understand just how much went into this project. no creative in their right mind is spearheading such a huge project and going "well let me steal visuals from this random brazilian comic and risk my reputation and standing in this industry." I feel bad for the creators getting death threats over this and possibly missing out on a 2nd season because of this mob doing everything in their power to discourage people from watching 1899

I’ve been meaning to watch that.

Unfortunately, this modern justice warrior mentality is a poison to society that has gotten severely out of control (I saw people on Reddit blaming Tumblr but I’d say it’s more of a Twitter thing??). I’m afraid no amount of reasoning works with dumbasses like that. And seriously, death threats? Those people are nuts. Even though plagiarism is a crime, it doesn’t warrant a death sentence. And they’re jumping to guilty verdicts without even looking at any real evidence or waiting for the results of an actual legal investigation.

I feel so bad for the creators because they’ve worked hard to earn this recognition in the first place and they do not deserve to have their reputation tainted like this when they’ve finally reached the wider audience they deserve. Anyone who has watched Dark would know how much they put into their work.

Drawing inspiration from history, philosophy, and sci-fi tropes doesn’t equate to plagiarism. No one can create a 100% unique plot anymore anyways, so does that mean everyone has been plagiarizing off one another? And also, given the amount of people in the world, it is very likely for two people to think of the same/similar ideas without ever knowing about the other’s existence. Especially if they both draw inspiration from the same things.

That author needs to get off her high horse. I’ve seen people say her comic is free so she won’t gain any revenue from this but she clearly did this for the drama and recognition since she went public with it right away (and who doesn’t know about the cult mentality in this day and age; she knew what she was doing by posting on Twitter). She could have went through the proper channels before throwing around harmful accusations but she didn’t, and (as far as I know) she hasn’t even redacted her false claims despite Bo reaching out to her. And now people know her name so they are more likely to check out her work in the future. I hope she’s sued for defamation.

@ironwingedhawk and @goldenwitchmami

Thank you for pointing out to me about the 1899 vs Mary Cagnin plagiarism situation.

I was misled by both her tread, the other sources I checked that were pretty much in favor of Mary and a deep rooted sense of wrong as I have seen similar cases happen to other Brazilian authors.

I checked some trustworthy movie and series critics now like Carol Moreira who has watched all episodes and has made a statement about it when asked as she also read the graphic novel.

This time I was in the wrong, so my previous post was deleted to not spread misinformation.

1899 by Netflix is NOT a case of plagiarism against Mary Cagnin’s Black Silence. Similar aesthetics but that’s it.