Question but is Thanatos still Hades son in LR?

INCOMING LO RANT (sorry if it’s long)

I have to get this very simple thing off of my chest. I do not like LO Hades at all, I don’t like him as a king, I don’t like him as a boss, I don’t like him as a friend, and I certainly don’t like him as a love interest. I hate him in general, there is literally nothing redeeming about his character nor has he ever shown any sort of progress. The only difference between LO Hades then and Hades now is that “he’s in love”, like I’m honestly so tired of him. He doesn’t consider anyone else’s feelings except for his own, and I know there’s gonna be people saying that “He considers Persephone’s feelings!!” yeah in some cases he does but in others he literally makes decisions for her. He acts like a fucking child and I’m so sick of it, he’s always rude to people who do nothing to him, he treats his employees like shit and he doesn’t even apologize to anyone about his piss poor attitude. It’s not attractive or sexy to be an asshole to everyone except for the person you “love” that’s just you being a terrible ass person. ALSO, not only that but I have other thoughts about the S3 premier but obviously I’m not going to disclose that out of respect for other people, but there’s a lot of things that irk the hell out of me about it. Bottom line is that he’s a weird ass predatory blue bastard and I absolutely despise that he’s just naturally “a good person” because the comic tells us he is, he’s never even shown any sort of compassion or care to anyone who isn’t Persephone.

Moving on to Persephone, I used to absolutely hate her and I never believed that she could have any sort of sympathy from me for personal reasons. Not saying that I didn’t feel bad about the things that happened to her, I always did but I’m just talking about her actions in general. But nowadays I’m looking at her in a new light, I feel terrible for her. These recent chapters have really showed me just how damn brainwashed she is, she doesn’t seem to have any agency for anyone who isn’t Hades and she constantly puts herself before Hades’ needs and wants. It’s just to a point where it feels like she feels obligated to just provide for him. It’s really getting clear that she only really lives for him, we don’t even see her other relationships outside of Hades or men in general, we don’t see her miss her mom, we don’t see her really bond with any of the nymphs outside of them being work buddies and it’s weird because you would think that they would have a closer relationship with what’s going on. Persephone never has any real friends and all the connections she did make were cut off or we don’t get to see much of it. I know it’s romantic comic and everything but I hate how isolated she seems, I know that the people that are on “Team Persephone” are there for her or whatever but it seems like they’re only there to push them together more. Not only that but we never get to see Persephone have any sort of motivation or ambition outside of something related to Hades. Maybe in S1 but that’s long been sacked and thrown out obviously, even her quest of becoming queen is just so that she could be with Hades. Not so she can improve the Underworld or anything just simply so they can settle down and have a family, it’s just so weird how obsessed they are with each other and it’s a very concerning way to love someone. I know the whole “but they’re happy together and a lot of couples are obsessed with each other” argument is there but I feel like it would make more sense if the couple had like years of experience with each other, dates, connections and emotional levels that they’ve reached with each other and that’s really lacking with Persephone and Hades because they literally only known each other for what? Three freaking weeks?? It just doesn’t scream “True love” but they don’t know much about each other.

Something else that really bothers me about this comic is that I genuinely don’t see it as a feminist comic. I don’t see it as a comic that shows strong badass female characters. I don’t even see it as a comic that represents women in general. I ever see RS make the relationships between the women of this comic catty or making them envy each other, it’s like if they don’t agree with the main characters they’re going to be “bitchy” or “dumb” or “slutty” and again, I don’t want to make it seem like I’m slut shaming but in the context given it is being used as negative connotations in this comic. But I hate that all the women of this comic always wants to tear the other women down, or how women who are more desired have to be sexual and how the women’s main powers are just simply seduction. Not talking about all of them but the majority of the women who are showcased the most have gotten into situations where they had to strip half naked or put on lingerie to gain power over the men. It’s all just stereotypical shit about women yet again and it goes against what a lot of feminists stand for. I hate that Persephone has just been watered down to be a fertile wife for Hades and I hate that Demeter’s valid concerns for her daughter mark her off as being a bitch. It’s so exhausting how RS keeps going on about how this is a feminist twist on the tale but doesn’t incorporate anything feminist worthy in the comic.

That’s the end of the rant though, and I want to make it clear that this is all very biased and it’s all completely my feelings and emotions towards the state of the comic nowadays so please don’t take any of this seriously and I don’t want to influence anyone to drop the comic because a lot of people find comfort in it and I used to as well so I understand. This comic can be great for some people but not very great for others and again these are only my opinions not facts at all and I even want more people to read it if they want. This has just been something that’s been on my mind for a while and I just wanted to say it, and I know it’s easier to just “not read the comic” and stuff but I’ve been so emotionally invested in it and felt so passionately about the comic that all the points I’ve made about it genuinely hurts to even read. I’ve always wanted this comic to succeed and I’ve always wanted this comic to be great and ignore its flaws, but the cons of this comic has outgrown the pros for me and I couldn’t just not say anything.

10 Anti LO Asks

1. I agree w/ that other anon. Ever character is seems, even its not very good development, has had SOME development at least, meanwhile persephone just hasn't. In many ways, she's actually stagnated or even regressed as a character, which is bad when you think it's going to be four years in March. How is Persephone of 2022 different from how she started in 2018? Truly think about that, because it's not painting a pretty picture at all in terms of writing or basic characterization.

2. You know, sometimes I wish Rachel would just make it clear that Persephone’s desire is to have a romantic connection, get married, have kids, and have a dreamy husband. There’s nothing wrong with this - many women have this desire. But Rachel is trying so hard to lie to us that Persephone has these big goals that isn’t about a traditional marriage setting and like - that’s what is making Persephone anti-feminist. Because she’s not being honest about Persephone’s desires and trying to make her something she’s not. 

3. You know what the overall conflict between Demeter and Persephone is in this story? If ya boil it down to it’s basic elements, this is pretty much what it is -

Demeter: So we’re living in this toxic environment where Goddesses are just used for their bodies and powers - so daughter, I’m going to build you a paradise where you can be safe, be surrounded by Nymph friends that consider you family, and have a huge inheritance so you’ll live comfortably and won’t need to help of some random man.

Persephone: Yea, but I want to get laid. F*** you mom, you’re an abusive narcissist. I’m so lonely without men around!

4. I see an excuse for how inconsistent the character designs are as "thats how styles work!" and like sure? but thats only on canvas? like theyre allowed to change whole characters if they want bc its all indie creators who arent beholden to anyone else, but rachel is working under a company? shes getting merch and printed books, the style HAS to stay consistent or thats a huge show of unprofessional quality! there are characters in lo (including hades) who changed whole colors! that's not good!

5. I hate how lo stans will justify every horrible deed of main characters saying "they are gods and have different morals than people" yet when it comes to bad characters suddenly human morals apply! And we are perfectly fine with murder but slapping someone? Unforgivable. It's pretty convenient for both fans and rs but guess what? Your classism is showing 😒 I don't understand people enjoying rich aristocracy doing horrible things to lower classes. Nymphs and people are much more relatable here

6. Maybe its just me but I think LO kinda fails too bc its so weirdly cut off from anything else? Like the fandom refuses to interact with anything outside of it. There's no hint of crossovers or the like, the fans only focus on it and it only. Even on Webtoons other comics like to reference each other as a fun in-joke, but LO NEVER does that. Even when Rachel was "helping out" Let's Play get published, she only made LO art for it while the other creators made Lets Play art. Like who does that?

7. the fact the fans are obsessed with dehumanizing even persephone down to her body/fertility and if hades willl "still want her" and what she can "give him" is so goddamn gross lmao. like seriously you lot cannot claim to be feminists when you only value persephone off what a man can get out of her. that's disgusting.

8. I have a very stupid question - why (in terms of LO) are the gods worshipped?

Have we canonically seen any reason as to why the mortals view them as gods other than unusual skin color and powers? Have the gods done anything of note that would make them worthy of reverence? What do they offer the mortals in return for worship? It seems like all we've ever seen the gods do is gleefully murder mortals. Are the gods not supposed to act as paragons of society and a means of upholding its values? Are they not there to set an example?

(I would love it if a scholar / someone from the culture could weigh in on this).

What I mean by this is all we've ever seen is the gods do is look down on humans and belittle their worth and kill them. (as Hades somewhat ironically points out during the trial - not even 'sweet, gentle' Persephone seems to care about mortals despite living amongst them for her entire life).

Like maybe this is just me wildly misinterpteting the text but even in the myths didnt the gods have more nuance? Like yeah they could be petty and selfish and pick favorites but didnt they also idk, kinda like humans? They had champions and half-blooded children and the like. (And yes their gods they probably do see themselves as superior) but it seems RS's depiction is basically "the gods are Only mean and spiteful and give zero f*cks about mortals" and I dont know how accurate that is in terms of actual Greek myth / how the gods are portrayed in regards to how they (supposedly) view and value human lives, but do the gods really not care at All? Not even a little bit? They aren't kind or offer humans anything worthwhile it seems (in LO) other than death and fear - and yet they depend on mortals for said worship. In the bleakest of terms wouldn't they want to show the mortals how great things could be if they worship them (by say, gifting the humans with nice things like a good harvest) to hammer home just how bad things can get without them if they (the humans) don't worship them?

Idk if I'm making sense, or if I'm just being stupid but something about the way RS portrays the gods confuses me. Like she seems to also apply human values and characteristics to them and then disregards it because their gods (like why have a courthouse for the gods to publically hold trial? Do the humans see the trial? Do they care?)

Also theres just little inconsistancies (I could be misremembering) - but like most of the human population we see are farmers and apparently they arent as advanced as the gods are in terms of tech - like we've never seen a modern city (the closest thing I can think of is Semeles party or perhaps Psyches house before she lived with Eros?) But the underworld has modern technology like laptops and cars - so what's up with that? Is it another Prometheus situation where the gods have it available to them but they don't want humans to have it? Psyche can't read or write until Eros teaches her - does she know what a cell phone is? Wouldn't that be a large jump for her when she started mingling with the gods?

Thoughts??

From OP: That’s why I think LO should’ve implemented more scenes with the mortals. I get it’s a modern retelling but RS barely shows Ancient Greece. She could do so much more with the mixing of modern and ancient but she doesn’t.

The mortals are kept away from technology though (with Psyche and her sister being the exception) since humans and gods have a different timeline. It was a little odd that Eros even let her sisters up there though since now they know what a modern house looks like but I think RS forgot about that.

9. I saw a nice edit from a LO fan asking for Eros to wear makeup and be "a little femme" and It just made me sad because I see time and time again most of these fans do want the comic to actually be as progressive and diverse as it claims to be yet Rachel constantly shuts that down to make it as status quo and regressive. I kind of hope one of these fans just snaps one day and makes an actually progressive comic instead of hoping Rachel will do it, because if she hasn't by now, she won't now.

10. minthe was literally the only well designed and attractive character and LO just nuked her so were stuck having to look at these same carbon copies of persephone (who is the definition of generic) and lego men hades instead. i hate it here!!

Reasons to watch CHiPs

The 1977-1983 TV show not the shitty movie

Okay so I'm too lazy to make one of those funny power points with comic sans, but here ya go.

CHiPs is this very '70s (a little '80s) show about California Highway Patrol officers, mainly focusing on Los Angeles motor officers and partners Frank "Ponch" Poncherello and Jon Baker. It's not perfect (the '70s were very problematic and talk about Police propoganda...) but here are some reasons to watch it.

Ponch and Jon are lovers. There is no heterosexual explanation for their relationship. Sure, Ponch still hooks up with a lot women and Jon dates girls occasionally, but why not? They wouldn't want anyone getting suspicious, so it's business as usual. Ponch is bi, and John is gay but just really likes hanging out with women (he drinks his respect women juice almost daily).

Jon is a cowboy from Wyoming (uhhh...Brokeback Mountain anyone?) and Ponch is Puetro Rican and speaks Spanish.

Their Sargent is played by Chris Pine's dad, Robert Pine, and I can't unsee it now everytime I see Chris Pine (Chris's mom is also on the show sometimes as the Sargent's wife and at one point has a baby named Christopher). The Sargent is always about to loose his damn mind over everyone's antics and it's great.

Season 3 and on, Michael Dorn (a.k.a Worf from Star Trek TNG) is one of the crusier cops, Jed Turner.

Season 2 has one of my favorite characters, Cindy Cahill, who is a staunch feminist and sometimes wears Princess Leia braids. She insists on using inclusive language and actively fights against the fact that she can't be a motor cop, even though she is a great motorcycle rider. She loves investigation and goes to Grad School at the same time too?? She is replaced by a model in Season 3, but Bonnie Clark isn't that bad after you get to know her.

According to a 90's CHiPs TV movie, her and Jon eventually date and get married, but I say it was only for convience because she is Aro/Ace and John is gay and they are good friends...

Sometimes Jon and Bonnie have the same haircut.

Caitlyn Jenner is on the show some in Season 5. Like her or hate her (for her politics), it's interesting. And I actually like her character.

Officer Artie Grossman, who is on the show from Season 1, is an amazing character. He loves food, is goofy, and just doesn't give a crap about other people's opinions. He conviently knows random facts about anything and everything, which always comes in handy.

Season 2 and on, Harlan Arliss is the station mechanic who is short, fiesty, a bit goofy, always wearing a labcoat, and also doesn't give a crap about what other people think of him. He starts out with a dog named Dave but the dog kind of disappears after a while. He and Artie eventually become good friends.

One of the originals, Officer Barry "Bear" Baricza is always wearing bellbottom uniform pants and has perfect hair.

They do so many things as CHP officers that CHP officers have no business doing, and should sometimes be left to local police or the FBI, but whatever...

Disco. Lots of Disco. As underscoring for car chases, and Ponch just loves Disco dancing and John likes watching him dance.

Listen to the theme song from Season 2 and on, you won't regret it.

Also some old '70s/'80s TV show jazz, in the earlier and later seasons especially.

Did I mention that Alan Silversti, the composer for the Avengers movies, does the music Season 2 and on?

EXPLOSIONS. Cars being launched over each other. Random chemicals exploding. Cars falling off cliffs and exploding. Car crashes that are so ridiculous, you just have to watch. With some slow motion, too.

Apparently Season 6 gets ridiculous. I'm on Season 5, but I've heard Season 6, in which John has left, involves plotlines like "a Robot tries to take over the station," "Evil glam rockers that look like KISS," and "Ponch becomes a Male Model."

Literally any season you can find the fads of the day. Tight short sorts, laser shows, roller disco, jet skying, skateboarding, three wheelers, exotic animals like Tigers, BMX bikes, street gangs that do martial arts, different kinds of car racing, going to Chippendales, horse riding, skydiving, nudist volleyball, and that is just off the top of my head...

The fashion and everything else is either retro aesthetic or ugly with no in between...John is always wearing turtlenecks and Ponch is always wearing low v-necks.

The "woah there is a women who is a *insert traditionally manly profession here,* dammnn" plots get old really fast and it's funny to see how everyone in the seventies thought they were soooo progressive.

They drive around Los Angeles all day and it's awesome.

I'll admit, the show is cheesy. I don't think I have ever laughed so hard at anything before, at how ridiculous it is. Perfect to watch when you are sick or really bored.

And there you go. It's on Amazon Prime and local network broadcast stations that show old shows.

how do you feel about marvel's runaways (2017-)? *i actually wanna know the dirt on it

thank you so much for this, i honestly appreciate it from the bottom of my grimy bitter heart

the backstory for those who haven’t been assaulted with constant subway ads for this show: marvel’s runaways is a new hulu drama series based on a 2003 series of comics that in retrospect may not have been very good but which i DEEPLY enjoyed back when i was a baby gay with bad taste. the idea of the series was to tell a story about a group of teenagers who have nothing to do with the main superhero dealings in the marvel universe - just normal kids who, on one otherwise uneventful evening, happen to find out that their wealthy los angeles parents are actually part of a secret supervillain ring. the idea is “every kid thinks their parents are evil - but what if they actually were?” it’s not the deepest metaphor by any means.

it was a really accessible and dialogue-heavy series that read more like YA than a traditional comic book and so really appealed to a heavy book reader like me since at that time i had never read a comic in my life. it also happened to make waves for including stories about sexuality through the lesbian character karolina and her partner xavin, a genderless alien (fun fact: joss whedon botched xavin’s story very badly). also, one of the main hero characters was gert yorkes, a snarky, sarcastic jewish girl who was fat and still got to do everything the other hero kids did, and she never got teased about it. i loved her so much.

anyway, maybe you already knew all that. fast forward to the new series, which first irritated me with the casting (gert: not fat; gert’s boyfriend chase: played by gregg sulkin; chase’s father: played by james marsters, who maybe we shouldn’t cast in projects with teenage girls anymore??). 

the casting blows but i’m also much more irritated by the writing, which includes unbearably slow pacing, tons of sexism and generally anti-sjw content, and no end of characters saying things that no one would ever say. for reference, in the first issue of the comics, the kids watch their parents murder a young woman and run away from home that same night (hence the title); we’re now past episode 4 and they’re still dicking around at home and on average nothing happens in each episode? 

a few new story elements are brought in that do nothing to advance the plot but simply add unnecessary gendered violence that makes the story far less approachable as an escapism narrative for girls. in the pilot, for instance, karolina passes out at a party and is almost raped. fortunately, right as the unnamed would-be rapists are taking off her clothes, chase saves her, then doesn’t tell her what happened! this is part of the story for no reason, since they don’t go after the guys who attacked her and it just is not dealt with in any way. the only thing this does accomplish is give chase a reason to be in the same vehicle as karolina so they can show up at the same other character’s house together after this scene. 

a similarly ill-thought-out and corner-cutting approach is brought to address the suicide of a character who was newly created for the tv series. this character is first mentioned in the pilot, when, out of nowhere, a character tells his dad that the video game he’s playing is the one he used to play with “her.” no names are used. the writers are attempting to convey the importance of this character to him, but it’s important that we all acknowledge together that people don’t use pronouns in this way, when a name hasn’t previously been stated. lazy!

this character comes up again in a flashback scene in episode four, where we actually see the moment that her sister found her dead in her bedroom. i have an issue with the way this scene is filmed, so let me describe it. the sister walks into the room in the morning. we see the sister’s face, then the camera moves to slowly focus on a pill bottle. then we see a shot of the dead character’s face, but from the nose down. she could be sleeping. cut right back to the sister, who immediately screams for help. and like, i get it, she took pills. however, this scene was filmed with two priorities in mind: 1) to spend as little time on it as possible and 2) to get as much drama as possible out of it by adding zero elements that would contribute any humanity to the scene. typically, if i walk into someone’s room in the morning and they are laying in bed with their eyes closed, i don’t immediately look to the prescription pill bottle on their nightstand because my first move is to tell them to wake up. that they might have killed themselves overnight is not a realization that comes instantaneously, i think? it seems like a small thing but i’m really bristled by the way this scene was shot to tell us exactly nothing about either character. why even show it? why not just say it happened? because drama. fucking 13 reasons why looking shit

another thing before i wrap up is that the comic series had some kind of love polygon (if i’m remembering correctly, it was: gert loves chase, chase loves karolina, karolina loves nico, nico loves alex, alex loves nico back?) and this was thrown unceremoniously into the pilot over the course of about two scenes when we still don’t know the characters very well and could use some breathing room. meanwhile, although this is a story about six people who used to be friends and aren’t now and need to get back into a rhythm with each other, the only relationship that has any of the tension you’d expect is one between two women! because women be gossiping, right? their dynamic is painted as the religious prude (karolina) versus the dumb sjw (gert). in one scene in the pilot, gert stands up in front of class and gives a lecture about her sjw stuff in front of an extremely uncaring audience, just to show how out-of-touch and unnecessary her principles are! (btw, i’m using the word “sjw” because that’s how the writers are definitely talking about her in the room.) later, she bickers with karolina and we get the sense that gert is trying to be feminist; however, what she’s saying is just mean and uninformed, and no one would say any of this. it feels like an intentional way to demean her as well as karolina by making their rivalry this specifically feminine thing

then you know there’s just general stuff like the bad pacing, the confusing and highly questionable age of the youngest character, molly (she’s told by her mom that she’s having her first period in the pilot, but the actress is 14 and the character is in high school???), the insertion of a fucking SCIENTOLOGY analogue for no reason… it’s really a lot. it is very different from what the comics were to me, which was a very relatable series about teens acting like teens even while they’re juggling hard issues like morality and identity. and i’ll own that the comics may not have been written well and certainly needed updating! for one thing, karolina’s coming out arc; i was interested to see what they’d do with a 2003-era coming out story, since 2017 is not 2003! unfortunately it doesn’t seem like the writers have ever met a teenager or a gay person and are doing their best to keep the tv version as close to the bad comics version as possible; making the character religious in the tv series when she wasn’t in the comics seems like a guarantee that her coming-out storyline will be long and annoying. 

finally, just listen to any moment of dialogue and you will want to die. a several-minutes-long scene in episode three concerns a conversation about LARPing, furries, and sex with animals. i should have led with that and closed with that, since there’s very clearly nothing more to say. i hate this fucking show, it sucks.

4 Anti LO Asks

1. like ok, a character doesnt need to be super specific in what they like, but its just weird persephone has nothing? like we saw her read what, three times? ad she played chess once? but thats it? but shes still not fleshed out. we dont know her actual likes, her dislikes, her interests and hobbies and the life. even bella swan had specific books and music she liked, meanwhile persephone has nothing? its odd its been going for nearly 4 years and she's still so undeveloped after all this time.

2. So, in regards to LO and 'purity culture' I feel like RS either doesn't understand the concept very well or just doesn't care?? At least in terms of how she presents her work.

So, RS said somewhere (I think) that she wants LO to be seen as progressive and feminist and that LO is supposed to be a commentary on modern society and how young women / girls face the pressures of purity culture - and yet...

From a storytelling pov - Persephone and Hades are both dressed as a bride and groom constantly (or are made to wear similar styles and colors that mimic this idea) - and perhaps the color white has a different signifiicance in Greek culture (if anyone knows, feel free to jump in) - but in American culture at least its a symbol of virginity, purity, goodness etc. (Lets just ignore the racial undertones for a second there).

Also storywise Persephone only seems allowed to be attracted to Hades (in a good light, in contrast to say, Ares and her interactions with him) because Hades is her future husband and vice versa she is his future wife.

So theres some implications there along with some undertones about how the only 'good' man that persephone is allowed to like, flirt with, have experience with is the man who will eventually become her husband.

Also, (I dont know how to explain this well) but the only other 'romantic' relationship / experience Persephone has is with Apollo (who is a rapist).

So with the purity culture commentary in mind it seems like RS wants to say that women should be allowed to explore their sexuality and dress how they want etc etc but the message then becomes rather flat because RS seems to be inadvertently leaning into those ideas - such as having Persephone dress as a bride (and have white - a symbol of purity - be her 'signature color' and only allowing Persephone to have positive interactions with the man who will become her husband. Every other male character serves to push her into the arms of 'the allowed / chosen / true one' for her. She doesnt get to have any other options in regards to partners. She has no other experience with dating or romance other than the guy she's supposed to / allowed to be with and the man who raped her.

So it seems like RS is trying to make a commentary on purity culture and how it can effect young women/girls and such but the message just seems to fall flat because the writing seems to state otherwise.

Persephone is good and pure (if not naive) and so she is cloaked in a sense of childish awe at 'the real world' and she grows up sheltered yet has everything nearly handed to her on a plate. She is a future queen and bride to be so she wears a virginal white.

The problem I see is that there's too many clashing ideals and visual metaphors trying to be turned on its head.

Sorry for not explaining this well, but Thoughts?? 

3. i dont like the idea hades and persephone should have kids (punderworld and theia mania comics avoid it, hxp ficlets and mythos redone did include kids as background) but if lo has them have kids when persephone is still basically a kid herself and tbh doenst seem to want any based off her nightmares of pregnancy thatll be so bad?? at least the above comics all made a point their persephones are many centuries old w/ lives before hades, not barely 20 who only left her mom's house a month ago 🙃

4. Wait, was the goddesses of eternal maidenhood plot supposed to be the anti- purity culture stuff? Cause like.... Isn't it pro-female sexuality for a bunch of goddesses to reject sex by their own choice? Isn't the point of it to be able to chose to be sexual if you want to? Is the message here really "YOU MUST BE SEXUALLY AVAILABLE TO A MAN OR YOU'RE NOT FEMINIST"??? Cause that message is very, VERY ace-exclusionary.

4 Anti LO Asks

1. In the chapter where Persephone decided to go to a therapist, while having her breakdown she’s holding the lingerie she bought for Hades while talking about how she can’t compete with Hera.. and the whole thing is absolutely disgusting? I’m sorry but does RS even have a normal functioning cell in her brain? Persephone was sexually assaulted, has gone through a lot of trauma in a span of 2 weeks not to mention the trauma she had from before and what makes her decide to seek help is that she’s sure she can’t compete with Hera when wearing lingerie?? Out of everything that happened to her with Leto, Hades being with Hera centuries ago is what makes her want help? Not anything else..? Not her being a SA survivor, not the trauma from her mom, the act of wrath, being a wanted criminal, Leto trying to convince her to marry Apollo.. nothing else??? But the fact that her future husband/ sugar daddy creep used to be with another goddess? She really decided to go to therapy so she can be with a man she’s known for 2 weeks bc she knows that if she can’t have sex with him then he won’t be with her. How in the world does anyone think that this is okay, or progressive or feminist in any way??

2. I can't stop thinking of how fun it would be if Detemer tried so hard to keep men out of Persephone's life because she's a fertility goddess and she's afraid someone uses her... But turns out that Persephone is lesbian and just gets a lot of nymphs girlfriends or even how riddiculous it would be if another goddess or nymph would use her to overtrown Zeus

But no, only men can use fertility goddesses I guess? I mean, she's not afraid of women being around Persephone, only men

3. What’s annoying when it comes to RS, LO and it’s fans is that whenever there’s a critique about anything there at all they keep saying that they are gods, that the comic is a retelling and that they don’t go by human morals.. except that they do? Needing an act of wrath permit can be compared to going hunting, and it doesn’t even make sense bc how are you going to go ask to kill some mortals for sth they did? And what if Zeus says no? Then what do you do? The goddesses freaking out about the age difference between Persephone and Hades, and even Hades himself thinking about it is pretty mortal, since in the real world an 18 year old girl dating a 40-50 year old man whom she has known for 2 weeks would be extremely weird and frowned upon. What’s funny in this situation is that in the real world that man would be called a groomer and a predator, but in LO Hades is considered an misunderstood and sad boy, and it’s sweet that he kept thinking about Persephone and their age difference, although when he was thinking about their age difference it would always be followed by how she’s so young and wouldn’t want to date an old man like him. The way the underworld and Olympus function is pretty much capitalism + slavery. And there are many more examples. You can’t say that we can’t judge them with our mortal morals bc they’re gods when in fact they way this comic is written is as if these are mortals with superpower and titles, who go by mortal morals and laws. If none of the things mentioned above would have been heavily emphasised in the comic then they wouldn’t be an issue but fact of the matter is that they are, therefore the comic is going to be critiqued based on our morals and laws.

4. yeah i dont get why rachel purposely put a huge trigger warning for persephone in a fetal position (which wasnt even bad? it was the most covered up she was too), meanwhile disturbing discussions and visuals of sexual abuse and assault dont get any of that. sure, maybe the trigger warning might ruin the ~shock~, but people's well being shouldnt be secondary to rachel's abuse of serious topics and trauma for dramatic effect.

5 Anti LO Asks

1. hold on, NYX is a bad guy in LO too? or at least antagonistic? And she designed her to look like a spider crossed with a goth turkey? she's not seeing Heaven, how dare she do my mom dirty like this

2. Yo they did Nyx dirty

Probably because she dared talk bad about ✨The Good Guys✨

Come on, I would be more satified if it's even a Princess Luna (the figurine made by Japan version) ripoff and they made it way divine or abstract like.

Could have at least used Hades Game version of Nyx as an inspo.

----- FP Spoilers Ahead ----

3. FP spoilers//// if she seriously retcons persephone's age as some AHA moment to technically not be gross (its still gross) itll just be stupid and aid in how persephone needs even more time to actually mature since shes even more immature for her (assumed actual) age but implying she was born to be his bride? literally destined since she was born? renesmee would like a word! (also the whole "born to be X" trope literally robs her of agency so uh, not exactly "her choice" now is it, rachel)

4. (FP spoilers) maybe the dark persephone we see ruling over the underworld is because when she eats the pom later she loses her OP fertility and thus her powers so she goes dark because now she is rendered powerless on the surface and can only be in the underworld to have any power (very feminist, her only power is via hades and his realm! very cool) and she can't pop out babies for her sugar daddy and now has to take out her murder urges on being a slaver like hades 💀i hate it here

5. (1/3) I agree about 165. When Hades admitted his insecurities, the atmosphere seemed to be leading up to Persephone kissing him. That would’ve been satisfying for, ya know, the main couple of a romance story? They’ve still only kissed once. All that buildup—& she hugs him. I get that Persephone is taking things slow & not that Hades’ pompous ass deserves it, but they’ve kissed before & they’re the main couple. I feel their relationship has been going backward since their first kiss. Am I crazy?

(2/3) Also Perse’s questions, esp. the “If we were married, would that be enough for me to be queen?” felt weird when the previous scene confirmed they’re not even dating. Why’d she want a photo of them so bad, & when she took the photo, she has red eyes and says ‘I’m not sure how much longer I’ll get to spend with him like this’? It’s a lil ominous, like is she planning to overthrow Hades & usurp the Underworld or smthing? I mean, that’d be interesting but I don’t think what Rachel’s going for!

(3/3, same anon!) Sorry for the length and if any of this comes across the wrong way!  IDK…I’ve read through the whole comic in the past, and the pacing feels better to me when there’s not a week between cliffhangers, so this chapter will probably make more sense in context.  As it stands, though, this chapter felt so weird to me!  Anyway, thanks for letting me get that off my chest—just felt I was going a lil crazy!

I wish people realized critique of LO isn’t just “random haters” or “jealous bitches” (how feminist!) but are rather people who do have legitimate reasons to dislike what is portrayed. Countless Jewish readers have pointed out how damaging hades is depicted with an cartoonishly large nose and how he literally controls all the banks, money, is greedy/capitalist/owns SLAVES, and even is implied to have control of the media, but non-Jewish stans call them overly sensitive if not outright bully them.

Readers of color (especially black readers) have pointed out how bad it is that psyche is the lone actual person of color in comic yet can’t read/fend for herself, had her story ripped away from her to focus on Eros’ man pain, had her loving parents from myth turned into abusers (specifically her mom, I’m noticing a pattern here), and had her literally sold off to a white man til Eros “saved” her.

Ace and/or celibate by choice readers have voiced concerns over how willingly abstinent goddesses are depicted as backwards and regressive instead of women who have their own agency to forgo sex, but the comic only sees “agency” in sexual relationships.

Queer readers have pointed out how backwards it is the only lgbt+ rep is between an aunt and her assumed step niece (isn’t incest bad in this universe?) and even then it’s a blink or you’ll miss it moment, while one of the most famously queer gods ever (Apollo) is made into a straight boy r*pist, and even Eros is a gay best friend stereotype who just happens to have a no homo girlfriend.

More so, the biggest concern is from victims of sexual assault who have rightfully called the comic out for its use of a very real trauma and used it as a cheap plot point to make an actual canon r*pist look better in comparison, and those are the readers who Smythe herself raged at and called them “haters” for “not getting her story”. I have no respect for someone and their fanbase who literally lash out at any of these concerns, but lashing it at actual victims of sexual assault who were triggered and hurt by their trauma being used in such a way? That’s despicable.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I also remember when some Minthe cosplayer made a joke about Persephone being a Mary Sue (because, you know, Minthe) and Rachel responded under the post saying she wasn't and "Persephone isn't for everyone". She got so pressed over that one joke 😭😭😭

7 Anti LO Asks

1. Honestly all these evil Hades theory have me wanting a comic where Hades seems like the good guy and when he starts getting to know Persephone and eventually marrying her he fully brings out the bad in her ( so her going from bubbly to fully dreaded queen mode) and he uses her to get more power and souls and just eventually taking over everything (but not killing every mortal bc they know that if they kill everyone then they won’t have any more souls to take) so it’s basically them killing mortals and mortals having more kids so the population can grow but they end up dead anyway

2. Another issue LO has is the number of antagonists.. and so far i’ve lost count of how many there are. Normally you’d introduce at a maximum of 2 antagonists per season and if there are more you make sure to note that they are all working together as a group something LO hasn’t done. We only know that Apollo is working with his mom and that Thetis,Minthe and Thanatos were a group but then again only Thanatos and Minthe didn’t like Persephone while Thetis has her issues with Hera. Thanatos is getting his redemption arc, Minthe is gone and Thetis is still on her mission to destroy Hera’s marriage. Then we have Kronos who is probably coming back.. we then have Demeter as the overbearing manipulative helicopter mom.. and now Zeus as well who is bad for saying that Persephone must be punished bc she’s a criminal.. and these are the only connections they have with each other. Each of these people have their issues with Persephone or the other gods but then again they’re not exactly working together as one big group. And who knows which other characters will probably show up to “destroy Persephone”. This issue makes it seem like it’s Persephone against the world with only Hades as his supporter which is extremely problematic (especially for a comic that claims it’s a feminist modern interpretation of the myth)

3. the way rachel purposely makes sure its hard to tell persephone apart from a child, how she makes sure to constantly hammer home how immature/childlike persephone is, and how she very purposely made sure persephone was as young as possible to still be legal (and even confirming in comic she will look like a 19 year old forever, and possibly staying that way emotionally/mentally too) it makes you wonder how she seriously thought no one would find that a bit strange? its certainly a Choice™️ 🤨

4. in rachel's defense she did deactivate her patreon because too many minors were on it and it was labelled 18+ so the kids shouldnbt have pledged anyway, but even so other webtoon creators got around their underage fans but setting up a NSFW tier on their pages, ranging from $5 to $20 a month depending on who they were, making it way less likely a minor would pledge to that (you know, bc parents pay for it lol). its not fool proof but she could have at least tried it.

5. the height difference i know gets played up a lot as a negative, but that's not inherently the problem. there are a ton of webtoons with big height differences between couples and they're perfectly fine, it's how they're portrayed that's it can just add to the issue. shoot, use LO for example. Zeus and Hera have a sizable height difference and theres no issue there, they're both portrayed as adults. RS having Persephone so young and childlike in personality and looks is the actual issue here.

6. I’ve had a critical eye on LO for some time now but it’s one of the only things I can safely discuss with my sister. We had a conversation weeks ago where I told her I wasn’t doing fast pass anymore. Then when she asked me why, I shrugged. “Doesn’t it bother you the characters have next to no personality? Like. Take away the heavily saturated meme culture maybe only Cassandra would have access to, can you tell me they’re fleshed out.” And then she hit me back with, “I think that’s the point.” It just made me sad to hear.

I get no one goes to Willy Wonka for the nutrition label, but there are so many candies out there. Where’s the flavor, Rachel? We’re not bad people for not vibing with your tactless, bad faith, trauma response/trauma bond bingo. It’s sending me to a bad place with my own baggage and realistically, she has to end it sometime.

7. How the hell old is Persephone during Hades’ turnt trip to the mortal realm?? Shit makes me want to go full Stanley from The Office. That little girl is a child! I don’t want see you sniffing around her anymore this afternoon, do you understand? Boy, have you lost you’re mind? Because I’ll help you find it. SO many choices had to be made before RS even got to that chapter. Why even make her nineteen to his four figures? It’s not like anyone’s carding at that college.