idk if anyone is going to see this but 1 I’m also fandomele, so many of you have been liking my rare anti-aos posts there as well, bless lol I took a long break because it was legit upsetting me but sometimes it comes up anyway

and 2 if any of you ever gets into roleplaying and wants to write with a canon divergent darker version of Jemma who after season 2 starts pulling receipts and is traumatized but also fucking mad at everyone who attacked her for the wrong reasons, or a future Jemma who divorced AND snapped due to trauma and now is in a parallel world’s past and changing it, you’ll find me at monsterinamusicbox. Past Jemmas (aka other Jemma rpers) kinda getting warned against the team and the future are also welcomed lol hence me venting my salt in different ways (but not hating on other people’s characters, I hate on the writers.) 

I have decided (in the last two minutes) that I actually love Fitz’s first proposal scene. The one on the Lighthouse during Kasius’ little party. It is absolutely perfect and I have been blind.

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idk if anyone is going to see this but 1 I’m also fandomele, so many of you have been liking my rare anti-aos posts there as well, bless lol I took a long break because it was legit upsetting me but sometimes it comes up anyway

and 2 if any of you ever gets into roleplaying and wants to write with a canon divergent darker version of Jemma who after season 2 starts pulling receipts and is traumatized but also fucking mad at everyone who attacked her for the wrong reasons, or a future Jemma who divorced AND snapped due to trauma and now is in a parallel world’s past and changing it, you’ll find me at monsterinamusicbox. Past Jemmas (aka other Jemma rpers) kinda getting warned against the team and the future are also welcomed lol hence me venting my salt in different ways (but not hating on other people’s characters, I hate on the writers.) 

lillysbitchfest‌:

Amazing seeing a group show with a lead character that managed to give everyone a background and something important to do almost every damn episode. … Why are so few shows capable of this?

Oh, I hate that ‘imbalanced’ bs. Man I remember someone writing in the Jemma Simmons tag about how they needed to bring in someone for Fitz so that Jemma would be jealous to make his jealous about Will okay- like… no that’s more dysfunctional. FS being dysfunctional in no way is fixed by adding more dysfunction people! Ugh!

Yeah I really wanted Fitz/Mack, he wasn’t reacting well or healthy to Jemma, and she said she “Just wanted her best friend back” I really hoped he would find someone who he could form a healthy relationship with instead of what was developing between him and Jemma… punishment relationships is some dysfunctional bs. I don’t do that.

I’m a role player and I have A LOT of Jemma head canons. Such as she spent a week throwing a tiny little fit when she learned she couldn’t in fact “catch ’em all” in Pokemon. “They say you HAVE to catch them all but then make it so you can’t! Why would they do this!?”

Yeah, I hate that they had her hug him in season 4. Honestly Jemma had zero relationship with him that wasn’t antagonistic before that. I guess it goes into her being everyone’s therapist or something- have to care about and be friends with Mack even with literally no reason she should even want to be friends- like on okay terms with your coworker? yeah. Hugging? no.

Cheating is a failure of personality- unless your like in a physically abusive relationship where they want to possess you and you can’t get out for fear of getting killed or- like a world without divorce and married or something- there is no reason not to just break up with whoever you are seeing if you want to be with someone else. Cheating is super unnecessary. So nope, AU shipping. LOL. Vijay- there meeting was like something out of a fairytale… but ugh talk about another Jemma plot line that went no where.

Yeah, Iain’s discomfort with FS is… honestly it’s noticeable in the scenes. People posting about wanting them to have more sexy scenes and I’m like “… so you want Iain to leave when his contract expires? Because that’s what that will do.” He hasn’t said anything bad about the relationship since they officially got together but- LOL- when people ask FS questions he just hands the mic to Lil. Like “Nope! I suck at pretending I like this!” Poor Lil is like terrified of the fan-base too. You can tell she got some shit from people when the Will thing dropped and probably even before then for not jumping into Fitz’s arms the second he suggested interest. She works a lot with what little she is given- which is totally something I love in an actor. I’d love to be able to follow her about for a bit. :D

Glad I could make you feel better about the Aida stuff. I NEVER got any indication that she was jealous, right from “she’s beautiful, her movements are so life like,” all the way to shooting her with a machine gun- She HATES Aida, she’s not jealous. She blames her for a lot, possibly more than she deserves but- yeah. No envy, all wraith.

Honestly I don’t know about the framework- I started missing episodes around this time, I’d put together that 3 failed the sexy lamp test and my ability to deal was going down. LOL. I’d have to analyze what happened but- honestly if all her plots aren’t GNDN I’d be shocked at this point. They drop everything for her pandering to Fitz’s emotional needs. I will forever be a pillar of salt about this.

Ohhh I love the idea of the play and “This is for Will!” mmm yes! I’d be okay with an FS get together in the end of that season only if we got something like:

Fitz: I’m sorry you lost Will again… Jemma: He wasn’t Will, he could never be Will. *Reaches out to take his hand* Fitz: Umm… Jemma: I loved Will, and he’s gone- but I’m still here, and I don’t want to waste the gift he gave me. Fitz: What does that mean? *Jemma kisses Fitz*

Something that acknowledges what she went through and losing someone she loves and all that stuff. I’m in Iain’s camp of no want Fitzsimmons but I honestly just cried writing bit so… yeah I would have been okay.

LOL, good- I was worried it came off too bitchy. But- Exactly. This is not a show where Jemma can stay in with a baby- and- ugh, retire off together to a cottage… like what makes you think Jemma wants to retire? She talked about it once, and she wasn’t talking in the near future- It just feels like the fandom is trying to turn her into a house wife…

(Stupid tumblr posted this instead of drafting it…)

Another HC for all this talk about her childhood, you notice how ID!Jemma kinda has horrible posture? I think that is her childhood anxiety about her scoliosis.

Jemma’s family is highly suspect. All the things you said plus she also seeks affection for accomplishments rather than looking for unconditional love, which to me suggests she’s really more used to getting it from teachers than anyone else. Her autism comes with a pack of anxiety as far as I can tell which is probably why a seven year old had that many problems… she tries to order the world around her in order control it, which is one of the reasons she comes off as overbearing at times. - Her mother was mentioned once as a singular and that was she told Coulson to tell her dad what happened to her first in FZZT because her mother takes things better coming from her Father… at the time I took that to mean her mother is more sensitive but- maybe her mother is abusive and she didn’t want Coulson to deal with that and her dad knows how to approach her so she wont explode? o_O I really hadn’t thought about that possibility until you mentioned the lack of influential moms in the MCU… I found the comics with her dad in them and wanted Coulson to meet him ever since… weird wish but it was mine. Being a Roxxon CEO is so… so much fun with her rants about big companies destroying the environment from season 3. I based my family HCs around her comic dad. (Like he doesn’t have a first name, he’s just Mr. Simmons and should anyone learn it and speak it lightening would strike. LOL)

Based on my icon work only… I don’t think Jemma and May have had a single interaction. We got to see her react to May’s “death” and she saved her when she came in… presumably from the future. However that really doesn’t count. *sigh* Yeah…

Agreed that it’s always so frustrating to see people pounding on Jemma’s attempts to cope but yes Deke <3 (I pushed all my Deke stuff here so it jumps in reply terms to keep it together) I agree that I really wish his attempt to comfort her hadn’t turned into that sexist mess of tropes about being the fix it wife- I hate the writers for that because honestly it sounded like such a generic bunch of crap anyway. The only part that was about them was the sandwich. Ugh. Other than that I really like Deke and Jemma’s relationship a lot. I hope with Jemma and Fitz not being allowed to be in the same place and Deke being with Jemma maybe we will get some interactions with them that aren’t about Fitz? Hahaha … honestly like that will ever happen. *sigh*’ I like him going soft for her and how she sees that, he let down his cover and she alone really knows how much deeper it goes so everyone is always so confused by how much she thinks of him. I really wish he had just stuck by her side- he has someone good to teach him about the world and what makes her proud of him, and make him lemon love notes because as a chemist I can see her stress baking a lot. (Fitz yelling at Deke was actually one of those times I hated Fitz again because- yeah I get being mad about some of this stuff but he didn’t start yelling when he saw the Framework code (Something Deke has through very legitimate salvage on his part but I get Fitz doesn’t know that) he started yelling because Deke didn’t have all the answers on fixing the Jump Drive and- Fitz you hadn’t come up with a single damn idea this whole time! If Deke hadn’t stolen the Jump Drive you would actually be worse off because he wouldn’t have suggested it at all and he wouldn’t have it partially working, so shut up! Ugh!)

I’m so happy someone else looked at that and said- ummm these two people don’t like each other. This is really not good. Sometimes I feel like I’m sitting in a boat alone watching these little bits and just not seeing “Oh they aired out their problems everything is good now!” but “This is so much worse than I even thought.” Everytime I think of that scene “Bad Blood” starts playing in my head which is sorta amusing at least?

Yes my internet name is Lilly, borednow, or Bri- I’ll respond well to any of those. 

I was fixing on what The Doctor did because this Fitz doesn’t know about Kasius… but at the same time last Fitz didn’t do much in the way of talking to her about it either- including complaining when she tried to see the bright side of being on the Zephyr again… ugh. And everyone seeing Fitz and hugging him when they reunited with the team and yeah- Jemma is chopped liver, she was only taken from them by the Kree but whatever, Fitz is here! Yay! And yes that this Fitz doesn’t know about that is not good because Jemma will never talk to him about it and I honestly can’t blame her at all for that, he reacts so badly to everything when she opens up about anything. Her anger is scary, her pains are his personal failings, she can’t have unpleasant emotions without him reacting like she’s attacking him- I like to think she cut her hair partially as a FU to Kasius’ aesthetic. 

Being an out there scientist really should have been Jemma’s plot line and of course they handed that to Fitz. They give most of what should be Jemma’s to Fitz. Revenge on Giyera? Fitz. Return to Maveth and face Hive and finding out Will’s fate? Fitz. Scientist who is too focused on work to notice what they are making? Fitz. … They just gave Jemma a lousy t-shirt that says “#1 Fitz Fan” …

I wonder if the Producers somehow think having Fitz think genuinely horrible things about Jemma somehow cancels out his “I don’t deserve you” stuff… when it’s obvious it doesn’t. He still has inferiority issues, and self image issues and at the same time thinks horrible things about Jemma… wow. Adding more dysfunction doesn’t correct dysfunction, who would have guessed.

I think the only part of an Elena/Jemma friendship that would be hard is Elena is so religious… Jemma “the universe doesn’t want anything!” Simmons does not seem to enjoy ideas of faith or a plan or anything like that. So if Elena tried to approach comforting her on a level like, like she did with Mack, that it would go pretty badly.

I watched the show while listening to the commentary for every episode and frankly I have yet to meet a group of writers who are so in love with each character and actor and want to really give them their best while also adoring their viewers and not trying to decide for them what they like, as so many do nowadays (people don't like happy ships! they want the angst and for them to be apart, people together are boring! People want cliffhangers and lots of plots and plot twists so instead of giving a logical resolution that would satisfy them, we will drop all the hints we gave and change the ending, so all people who guessed it right will be shocked! What do you mean the show doesn't make sense anymore and the characters don't get to react?)

Yes, thank you, punishment relationships suck and it was the second or third fandom in which, by the way, shippers decided that the woman had to suffer because she was making the guy wait too long or pine, and he was being too much of a lapdog apparently man in love who doesn't get the woman right away, and I say this whether I like him or ship him or not: the fandom says he's being pathetic after a while and should sleep with someone else to make her jealous woman who has very reasonable walls/problems and won't say yes right away, whether in love or not: the fandom has decided she must pay for it so she can deserve him again. I hate it. I hate it so much.

Same here for the headcanons. And btw I do ship FS in roleplays? Because... canon divergences, aus... I always specify that as long as it's not like in canon and we re-write it all, I'm good. And Fitz rpers agree, usually they actually hate where the couple ended up being and one said recently she can't even recognize Fitz (she stopped watching but sees spoilers) and she refuses to consider any of that canon. So it's not just us lol

Yes, obviously there are extreme cases where cheating is the only way out, but let's be honest, how many are those compared to the simple cheating because you want to? And especially on tv, no thanks, gross. Can't stand it. Like those romantic movies where I'm supposed to root for the cheating couple because they are in loooove and didn't get to break up with their SO for half of the movie? Get away from me.

On one hand, poor Iain lol on the other, I gotta say I'm a little sad that we didn't get to see actual Jemma's behavior in a relationship and all that because Iain couldn't do it, which I'm sure is a big motivator. Liz can clearly do anything, any role, without a care lol She's incredible. And speaking of actors, she does seem to avoid/dislike talking about Will in a serious way and I wonder how much that has to do with the actor's misbehavior during the shooting of the episode, which is also probably the reason why we didn't get Will for more than two episodes. Maybe if he had been in a better place at the time we'd have gotten a bit more plot and episodes there (not that I wanted a love triangle lasting a season, but maybe since FS was endgame, for Jemma to rescue Will and maybe feel that she'd rather be with Fitz/relationship doesn't work on Earth and for Will to move on and re-make a life, also so that Jemma as a character isn't so hated and Fitz isn't seen as a consolation prize, as if Jemma hasn't shown anyway in a thousand ways that she'd fight for him. Like, whether I like them together or not, they are *written* to be in love, and I don't like the fact that writers and people feel the need to prove again and again that Jemma is ready to do anything, it feels like they are undermining everything she does. I don't know if this makes any sense to you? I don't like their interactions as a couple, their way to be a couple, but I don't want Jemma to have to prove other fifty times he's the one she wants to be with.)  I am very glad that the actor is doing better now, though!

I also didn't feel like she was jealous, only jealous of not being included in the building of Aida time, but the fandom almost made me change my perspective on it.

ooohhhh yes, that also totally works for the getting together! We are making each other feel a bit better now, good lol and no worries about being too bitchy, please, i've been extra bitchy for months.

I was about to write 'I can see Jemma retiring AFTER the show because SHIELD sucks' but you know what? Whenever I write her retiring, I write her getting a cottage in Scotland, yes, in a big open space, and building a lab right next to it where she works with Fitz on inventions to maybe help inhumans with their powers, like Daisy's gauntlets, and stuff like that, non lethal, science-y stuff. So I don't think this is the retiring that people talk about lol

I hadn't noticed the terrible posture, good catch! oohh and you wrote this 'All the things you said plus she also seeks affection for accomplishments rather than looking for unconditional love, which to me suggests she’s really more used to getting it from teachers than anyone else.' YES? but also I had an even more ominous headcanon because I did notice that and I thought 'is it possible that her parents ONLY gave her love over accomplishment? Her father always working, started working even more while she grew up, and only really paid her enough attention when she was being a little genius, helping solve problems? Her mother who is never mentioned being only pleased when she's the 'good girl' who does what's expected of her. Especially if she's autistic and it's her mother who can't 'accept it' and wants Jemma to perform fantastically in everything she does to prove herself. But that's also me writing her mother as a really bad person every time lol especially in verses where Jemma is aware she's autistic and sadly her parents are too. Plus, the plot twist there: her dad is the Roxxon CEO, he's supposed to be the big bad guy...... except her mother is the puppetter, the real woman in command. -creepy music in the background- I based my hcs on some of the comics and then I went: you know WHAT. I love Whitney Frost from Peggy Carter as a villain, what if there is some relation there and Jemma's mom is the big bad of my story. Yep.

NOT ONLY the generic speech Deke gave Jemma could have been about anyone's wife but it managed to not fit what we saw of FS on screen. Jemma letting Fitz win arguments???? I did love how Deke was around Jemma, yes, and vice versa. Deke was even a bit on the soft-side with her before finding out she's his grandmother, maybe because she actually bothered to check on him, like after he saw his Fear!Mother. Which makes also perfect sense because I really didn't see him as so annoying anyway, and he was a man taken from his own time, in a completely new world, no one he knows beside these people? He needed help getting used to it and he was curious about everything - THE MAN NEVER SAW THE SKY. Of course he was curious about this 'wonderful' life with lots of food and sky and where he can go out and see everything. They could have at least given him something to read or check out, including computers, to find out more about this world if they were so stressed out. And I'm grateful I missed the whole Fitz yelling at Deke again and just caught gifs of them already having made up. It was overdone, surely to show Fitz's mental state too at the time, but come on. And with Jemma at least once trying to tell him to calm down in s5 too, and now 'he doesn't mean it' in s6, ugh. Jemma was a loner at the academy, the odd bird, Fitz was abused at least emotionally if not physically by his original dad, and I'm supposed to believe they don't get that Deke wants approval and to feel like he belongs? And with they I especially mean Fitz since he's the one who started it (but Jemma looked somewhat caught off guard by Deke venting, from what I saw)

Oohhh I'm happy too because I really don't know how we ended up feeling so differently about it compared to the majority of the fandom. Or MAYBE it's that the people who love it are still watching, still vocal, writing in tags, while people don't love it either stopped watching or don't invade tags with hate.  Like us, staying in our lane. Some people don't like it but don't write about it, like my rp partners, because no reason to, mostly they stopped watching though. So there are others, but hidden. And then people like us who can't stand to not comment lol

is borednow a reference to Dark Willow?

Please, I lost my shit when they didn't even welcome her back after she was enslaved by Kasius, don't remind me. To be fair, May was on the surface, maybe we could have expected at least a pat from her, because Elena did pat her once if I'm not wrong, when they were already in and still of course focusing more on the others. But really, Coulson and Mack both consider Jemma the third of the Bus Kids, so..... Plus she was taking care of him having been hit by a bullet for drama reason, because god forbid the writers give actual consequences to the alien thing that was pulled out of Jemma's ear. She was bleeding too but I guess she walked it off just like ten days after having an entire knife shoved into her thigh she was running around the ship, after the Framework, which is supposedly taxing for human brain and in which she went after bleeding out for a long while and all bruised up. The writers don't care about her so she has inhumane resistance to blood loss and pain and starvation. And no permanent consequences. As if Jemma couldn't have been the one Fitz helped walk in, her attention on her and her physical injures for ONCE. That thing in her ear likely was into her brain too, if it caused sight problems of that kind and allowed Kasius to speak into her mind on command. But eh, whatever, right?

Jemma should have been the one becoming a grey-area character, a lot like May, doing things out of loyalty to her team, keeping up her 'I'll kill you' tendencies and reacting to being isolated the same way she did in s2, or maybe a bit harder then, but still protecting her friends while convinced she's the cause of all evil and therefore can dirty her hands - and then get her own healing arc in which she's still a bit of a grey area but believes in herself again, demands respect, and also lets herself open up to love and hope. She should have gotten half of Fitz's roles, they could have split them between them: she'd be misunderstood and seen as villain-ish, she'd be the out there scientist for a bit and down to murder but also feel tormented about the differences between herself and the friends she idolizes, then get to be the hero at some point while Fitz is being the villain, start working on her self-hatred, Fitz would pull out his hero card too, she'd save him with action because of course a woman who has been suffering over people dying to protect her and who works in what feels like an active warzone would have learned to defend herself properly by now (nothing to do with strong women need to kick ass, it has to do with shield agents who don't want to cause more death need to kick ass one way or another if they have that much of a bad luck), he'd get to work on his health too, and so on. Instead of Fitz being misunderstood, hero, villain, grey area, love interest, tormented scientist, out there scientist. If Daisy has Coulson and Fitz has Mack, she can have May. Or literally any other thing than damsel in distress who gets some good boss-scene once every season and clearly loves it, and then it's all gone as soon as Fitz is around and gets the spotlight.

About the difficulties of Elena being so religious, I gotta say, I'm religious but sorta keep it to myself, I have a very religious friend who shares, and three very atheist friends, and we manage to make it work, though when the religious one overshares they kinda roll their eyes behind her back lol because one has to know when it's welcomed (and of course others can be more understanding. It all depends on which one is exaggerating). So there can be friction, since Jemma is very determined to say out loud how much nothing supernatural exists and Elena is religious lol but Elena comforted Mack that way because Mack told her he believes in season 3, and she doesn't seem ready to throw a cross at the others, while Jemma... okay can be pretty offensive lol so it depends a lot on if Elena would try to approach her about it without asking first if she believes (but I think Elena knows) and if Jemma would attempt to be vaguely diplomatic and just state she doesn't believe. It's complicate. Jemma also made a pretty unnecessary comment about Elena's necklace not being very classy or something, which could earn her some nasty fighting if overheard, so who knows lol However *that* could also be a way for them to become friends. To stand by each other's side even if they had a fight about 'don't push your religious beliefs on me' 'I wasn't, you are the one who keeps belittling mine' and then calm down and discuss it calmly, and still help each other and care, that could be a stronger friendship than Jemma is usually allowed to have. But it's all hard to predict and anyway it won't happen because Jemma doesn't get friends, next season will have them all apart again and Jemma trying to fix time or whatever and get to Fitz again, so.

not tagging this because everyone has a right to have their opinion but I’ll never feel more frustration than when I read the headcanon of Jemma as a sub, a loudly good sub, which especially happens when she’s shipped for other female characters 

aside from the fact that not all sex requires a sub and a dom, in no case whatsoever unless you are looking to be dommed/have a sub, otherwise you can just do it without orders/a distinct person in charge, but Jemma? Jemma I am never in control of anything in my life and I hate it and I clearly love the moments when I get to be in charge and gloat about it Simmons? Jemma I want to be praised for my performance as a boss, and sure I’ll do a good job as a subordinate but only to prove how amazing I am and only if I agree otherwise you are as good as knocked out Simmons? Jemma I never get to have much control in my life but in every sex scene I initiated things and the one time we saw me start having s ex I dropped in bed to guide Fitz in it and then immediately flipped us over Simmons? With subs often wanting the freedom of giving someone else control because they are overcontrolling or want to be protected in real life while Jemma never gets to be in control and hates that other people have to make choices for her? Nah. 

lillysbitchfest‌:

Leverage! *high-five* Home of my revenge on rich people fantasies and OT3! <3 Yes I totally accepted Sophie as the hot one there when I’m usually like “boo!” to the idea because it was such a role switch. So much subversion in an older, less conventionally attractive, woman being able to capture fantasy and wrap men around her finger through that allure. - While Park does “Does this smell like chloroform?” LOL. Loved that show.

Oh, don’t get me wrong I love the idea of men and women just being friends, it’s just I had already noticed by the time that Mack and Bobbi were sparing that AoS played up connections between men and women as sexual very easily. It was that on top of his gender pronounless ex, his close relationship with Fitz, and then the little blond guy on the boat who died lying to protect him- I got “oh so that’s your type” vibes from that. I admit I WANTED so bad to have Fitz hook up with someone else as season 2 progressed and well- you pretty much covered why because him poisoning the well against her and all that stuff they never talked about and it just - by the time she suddenly decided maybe there was something there - they hadn’t talked or done anything that made me feel like that wasn’t “guy is rude to girl and she wakes up and realizes she loved him all the time!” which … I want to stab with a fork… repeatedly.

I saw some eyes with Bobbi but- that’s definitely a subjective take cause I never got that with Fitz until season 3… also I think she stopped crushing on Bobbi because she went back to being blonde, and Jemma prefers dark hair, skin, eyes, etc, but that’s another rather random HC of mine.

I agree completely about Will though. Ohh, hot, no wait probably a bad idea… was a lot of her actions with him early on. The “good night Will” was absolutely a “this might be deeper than ‘oh hot!’ … oh dear” moment.

I never thought she thought Mack was hot, just saying based on her attraction to Mike and several other characters he has physical traits that would fit him into “her type” Tall, muscular, facial symmetry, etc. I think the way the met put a giant “NOPE” on him for looking at at all.

People I think Jemma has thought were hot: Skye, Ward, Mike, Trip, Audrey (not in a “I’d do you” way but in a “Coulson has good taste I approve” way), Bobbi, Will- and then after that I’m not sure because FS kinda crashed into things. I mean yeah she made eyes at Fitz and I saw it after this but by then it was NoTP for me so- yeah. After that it was only in my dreams. LOL. I don’t like cheating but I can just imagine a world where they aren’t together or broke up or something. LOL. Also… trash ship away, Ward did seem to be totally digging Jemma’s “Furious vibes” LOL.

Alright, on Jemma’s libido- I agree with a lot of that. *nod* I see her as much more sex than romance- like a candle lit dinner would just be “food with poor lighting and a fire hazard” rather than a dream come true. Also super into experimentation in the bedroom. I hate that she’s super mellow now- I think maybe because Iain is SUPER uncomfortable with being physically flirty with Lil? She’s not actually attracted to Fitz and is forcing it too hard? Or they’ve just decided to cut out everything that made her not ‘feminine’? Those are the only options I can think of…

In return for your attempt to comfort me and make sense of ID!Jemma and Doctor!Fitz I shall give you my take on “Aida jealousy” - she’s not. I think she freaked at the idea of him bringing her in for just the reason she said and then when she snapped that he built himself a girlfriend - I honestly think that was a reaction to what he said about Will being Hive and that she possibly slept with Hive and- yeah she said the first thing she could think of to hurt him- it’s on the line with who you slept with so it flows and she wanted it to sting because- well damn did that Will line cross like every line, her return did too but by then it was pain for pain. So, maybe that will make you feel better?

My disgust with the failure of season 3 and Jemma’s arc knows no bounds. With the exception of things contained within 4722 hours, Jemma of season 3 fails the sexy lamp test. I seriously am not sure I will ever get over that because there were so many starts to ideas with her that went no where and did nothing- and ugh! Can you just imagine if they hadn’t just gone right for “hook up Fitzsimmons” and instead backed off a bit- had Hive kidnap JEMMA in the Singularity - then Jemma could be forced to work on the inhuman transformation, and maybe make a real one instead of the stupid primitive one and create some real conflict about World Peace vs. Free Will and stuff… and Radcliffe could come in with Fitz and they could work on saving Jemma and Daisy together (then Fitz being all close with Radcliffe in season 3 while Jemma isn’t would be perfectly natural! It wouldn’t just be coincidence that Fitz met Aida earlier than Jemma it would be because Radcliffe and Fitz know each other better! Ahhh! Plot with logical cause and effect!) Jemma would be central to the plot of everything and we’d have Hive doing Will and Ward around her like he did that asshat’s brother- and all that stuff- it would have been epic! Then working with him she could somehow direct things to Hive’s defeat- like she doesn’t have to be the one to kill him but damn does she need to be involved! Then she could say good-bye to the last remnant of Will and break my heart because Lil would act the shit out of that and- Fitzsimmons get together could be in season 4! (Not that I wanted them to but this would have been SOOO much better) Use all that “budding romance stuff” in season 3 before the singularity to have them talk about some of the things that have made their relationship strained. This would have been a… alright if that’s what we are going to do, not a me bashing my head against the wall repeatedly kind of thing.

I don’t hate Fitz… well sometimes I do, but that’s really more how much the forced FS stuff has him crossing lines that drive me crazy. I don’t WANT to hate him, I liked him a lot in season 1, and in 2… and then I started getting really upset in 3… and then people in the anti stuff were driving me crazy so I started liking him better in 4… and it’s a complicated relationship I have with him. It’s hard to separate my frustrations with the focus on him in the relationship from my feelings for him at times. So my feelings about him seem to depend on who I’m talking to and what the particular subject is at the moment. LOL. It’s really complicated.

Exact same on “He doesn’t mean it” I don’t even have anything to add. Just- yup. That was horrible in every way. Why was that on TV? Why? Ugh.

PRAISE EVERYTHING THAT SHE WASN’T PREGNANT.

YESSSSSSSSSSS! It was honestly hard looking at all the OMG Jemma needs to be pregnant! posts in the Jemma Simmons tag because I just wanted to reply to every one with “fuck you” like not even explain everything that is wrong and upsetting there just “fuck you” - which really isn’t the kind of poster I am- I’ll attack when people are rude but if you are in your lane enjoy what you want, but - ugh yeah. It was an internal struggle with myself and the bitter bitter ball of bile that Jemma Simmons’ treatment by this show has created.

Yeah the Hand-Holding was spectacularly tone deaf- and inevitable isn’t romantic- I just thought that was the worst until I saw the sex because even making them somehow jerks who don’t care about their friends- they both just faced a personal fear of epic levels, Fitz with having a friend suffocating him and Jemma facing a monster she knew as death, her dead boyfriend and her torturer in one- like wow even if we decide they are selfish jerks how are they okay after that???? it often felt like someone was writing the plot line and then just adding in a bunch of cute FS scenes someone else had writing out of context? And we’ll just shove hand holding in there- and look this giggly sex scene is so cute- just cram it right in. UGh…

Yeah I too don’t think Jemma’s childhood/relationship with her parents is as nice as she tries to make it out to be. I can’t imagine it not being a mess… even if her parents were good and tried- Jemma’s BEYOND gifted, children like that have a very hard time forming any kind of relationship. Can you imagine being smarter than everyone around you and being seven? Gifted children often fight for their independence and want to do everything for themselves- it makes bonding strange because they’re not as dependent on their parents as the average child- most gifted children of that level go away to school too, not to add being British either. She also shows autistic signs, which again often makes children less bond secure with their parents. Even with the best of parents Jemma would be a trial to have a great relationship with and no I don’t think she had the best of parents… her coping mechanisms alone…

Oh… mama!May and duckling!Jemma… *sob* I might focus more on Coulson, possibly because he seems more ready to give out parental and possibly because Jemma has been more “Daddy” and less “Momma” but yes May being mom would heal so much.

Ugh! The ‘your racist’ button… *sigh* I mean I get it, there is fandom racism, and there are lots of jerks and all but … there is criticism of things that happen to CoC and of CoC themselves that has nothing to do with them not being white. Yes the pin was bad because they had bothered to show that another character was very attached to Peggy Carter and that character had already been through a lot and there were tons of times that she could have used a moment like that and didn’t get it. That is not saying that Yo-yo did not deserve something great and wonderful and to be loved and accepted, etc. It’s just that this particular item, because of the established character history hurts. - I’ve seen so much “if you _______ it’s racism” stuff it drives me up the wall. I saw someone say if your favorite episode is 4,722 hours it must be because it’s the only episode with no person of color in it! … I’m like … yeah ummm that’s my favorite episode because I can ignore how it went no where and dream of a universe in which my fav girl matters, and I love Will and Jemma being smart and sassy and capable… but my favorite scene in in the whole show was the May/Ward fight where she nailed his feet to the floor, how does that fit in with your hypothesis there? It doesn’t. So can we stop just assuming the worst and actually listen to people before we jump to the isms?

you gave me au biospec feels with that tho lol how dare

… yes that was an intentional Ward reference. ;) I have a lot of feels about that line when I think about them and the pod scene and everything. Yeah…

And you just wrote a perfect description for the back of my book: “How FS went from being ‘No I don’t ship it but I guess if it happens it happens’ to ‘NOTP of all NOTPs!’ for me.” LOL. Another SOOO MUCH AGREED that I don’t even have anything to say- save I do forgive Deke because he explained to her why it hurt and said he wanted to have helped and shared the pain with her… which is like one of the best things anyone has said to Jemma in a while. Look Jemma! Someone who wont take your pain as a burden for fucking once… yeah. I mean I hate people yelling at Jemma for not opening up but unlike everyone else I can think of he actually hasn’t punished her for doing so… so yeah forgiven.

Adding it up the “How does Fitz not know this” … he even references that Doctor Fitz wants revenge for Jemma having killed his father- which was what lead to that scene with the knee and the gun and all that- so like he’s even thinking about that stuff and still can’t pull that up!??? HOW?! Bad writing or Fitz is like the most selfish person ever… I can’t think of another option I really can’t…

Yeah it’s been disaster after disaster ever since they got together and… honestly after the fight in the pod- I can’t even say these two like each other anymore. They love each other but… they seem to not like each other at all. That’s… that’s really bad. They lash out and hurt each other intentionally. Fitz is DISGUSTED by Jemma’s damage and lords it over her as “and you say I have issues! I’m down right normal compared to you!” - ugh- I honestly don’t know how to get over that- and that he never apologized or was worried for her or felt bad that she felt she had to hide all these things she’s feeling or even tried to comfort her- nope… fighting. Calling her names. Telling her she’s secretly a horrible person… and nothing was resolved ( I know Jemma was no peach in there on him but she was gentle about his problem with the Doctor stuff until he started digging into her on her repression). They never actually got to anything because saying “I love you” isn’t a fix it. Venting a ton of pent up issues without actually dealing with any of them is just yelling- it’s not actual relationship work… and if any of that was really honestly how they feel… they don’t like each other.

Honestly this break up after peace would be like the only ending to their plot that would actually be … right at this point. The show has shown in EVERY possible way this is a disaster of an unhealthy relationship, that these two are miserable together, that they have so many issues they aren’t working on, they only seem “unstoppable” when they face a force outside of them… they’re a disaster that sucks the life out of one of them and is a broken crutch for the other’s self esteem issues… if there was any emotional honesty left in this show this would be exactly how Fitzsimmons story would end. It will never happen because somehow the Producers think it’s TRUE LOVE and a beautiful love story and all that- and I’m like… no, you’ve written a co-dependent debilitating arguably abusive unhealthy disaster of sexist tropes… congratulations.

The idea of Hunter and Jemma as a BroTP has such appeal. I once worked on an AU with the one Hunter RPer… who has sadly left, where Jemma and Hunter were step-siblings and it was honestly the cutest thing ever. Can you imagine “you are a butt-face” explosives making Jemma with like a 12 year old Hunter? She could help him with his homework and he could sneak her out for mischief! <3 - I would have loved Jemma having literally anyone to talk about Will to who wasn’t Fitz. Just a two minute thing with ANYONE where they talking about wanting to help save a poor man who has been stranded on a planet for that long- someone come in seeing her looking at the picture of them together and tell her it’s cute and ask about if there is a story to it- like given the time line and Jemma’s phone she took that picture before they were a couple- like was she explaining what selfie culture is? GIVE THAT WOMAN SOME FRIENDSHIP! *cries*

Yeah the “I’m not going to therapy” is ridiculous- after she let him out as Lash like I could understand her never wanting a therapist again but yeah you can’t do that…

Nothing to be sorry about. Though I should put long post warnings in my tags… I keep forgetting to do that…

Leverage, also the one show that gets lighter as it goes, and has satisfying arcs for every single character -single tear-

and nooo don't worry, I know you didn't mean that you don't like male-female friendships with Mack and Bobbi, it was just that it came off as funny to me, the 'if you are not attracted to Bobbi you might not be attracted to women at all' sort of funny lol but YES, of course, if we talk about aos, it seems to be more likely that as soon as two people of different genders interact there is a chance for romance. And I'm actually pleased that you said that you wanted Fitz to hook up with someone else for that reason. Because I don't like when people say that in s3-after s3 they wanted Fitz to hook up someone else so that the FS relationship wouldn't be so imbalanced, as if just because he's in love with her and she had been with someone else before dating him, she can't possibly end up loving him just as much/there weren't particular circumstances/Jemma has to be punished/a man who only loves one woman is somehow weak for it. Those are all notions that I found in posts about wanting Fitz to be with someone else and I'm always happy when instead I find reasons like: eh, I would have liked THAT pairing or 'maybe he was trying to move on in s2 and then they re-found each other'. No punishments, no judgment for being in love, that sort of thing that pisses me off in aos (where apparently Jemma has to crawl for some people to admit that she's done 'enough' while Fitz is doing 'too much')

and yeah, it's okay for you to give me headcanons of yours, I'm always curious XD I gave you mine about Jemma vs sexual attraction after all XD

And absolutely about Mack. After all, personality can come into play when it comes to attraction, and damn if their first interaction wasn't a giant mess.

also please, do you know how many 'fs break up and Jemma ends up with Hunter or au Ward' I've written with my friend, I'm so here for that kind of story lol no need to demonize anyone either *though* generally it's kinda automatic that if Jemma opens up about how things actually were for her in previous seasons it sounds like the others weren't exactly amazing to her. Wonder why. (But yes, no cheating!)

You might have hit the nail in the head saying that maybe it's because of Iain that they toned down how FS could have been? Because they did mention how uncomfortable he was SO MANY TIMES compared to any other tvshow, so since it wasn't 'essential' to show them being too sexual, they didn't bother too much with them. Meanwhile Liz is a pro lol so underrated, considering that the scripts she's given are criminal and that she's basically the only one who tries to put in her body language that Jemma is traumatized as much as possible (the hardly scripted way Jemma 'swallows' when Daisy mentions that Ivanov threatens to torture them all in s4? Saying in an old interview that she had prepared so much for PTSD-related episodes at the beginning of s3?)

and okay you did make me feel better about her jealously for Aida, it does sound that way, so thank you :D (sometimes we gotta help each other cope lmao)

I'm not entirely sure the Framework doesn't fail the sexy lamp test. What would have really been different if someone else had been there? Radcliffe was looking for a way to take the Doctor to the portal, without Jemma he could have found some other way? Or maybe it counts that she pleased for Ward to NOT shoot the Doctor but he also only knew where to find him and Radcliffe because of Jemma. Everything she did was nullified by other actions or could have been done by literally anyone else, Daisy took Coulson with them, Coulson convinced May to help out, Daisy was the reason Mack joined, so... I don't know if it counts or not. But also I mean, her amazing potential arc of rising to power to have control on the team was basically for nothing since 1 Mace wasn't evil and 2 she had to throw her plan away soon enough. Radcliffe saved May and could have done it alone, he's the one who had tools to find the problem and to resuscitate May. Jemma was a bit more active, okay, especially early on, but... I don't know. Her personality also went back to whatever was needed during the episode. She's the writers' jolly card. They need a very hopeful person? Check. They need someone who can play torturer? Check. They need someone who is the stereotype of the nag to make Fitz feel less understood and do things on his own? Check. They need her to be the best most understanding girlfriend so Fitz can recover a bit and get ideas? Check.

And absolutely yes to what you said about Hive kidnapping Jemma and forcing her to work with them. Maybe find a way to outsmart him and run away too, or throw something at Hive (or some biochemical thing she came up with while secretly studying him and that can slow him down) to help Lash when he shows up so she can run away with Daisy and they don't have to save her?  (Creepily enough she could have played along and tricked him and us, acting as if she had bought that he was really Will and then BAM it turns out she's still the good and ruthless actress she is AND still vengeful -attacks- 'this is for Will... and this is just because I want to hurt you' -attacks again-). FS could even have happened in the very last two episodes, just by implying that she was already processing Will's death and dealing with it during the hiatus and in the first episodes of season 3b, and then implying that she spent several days/weeks with Hive, secretly also thinking about what she wanted, and then come back and a little timeskip (which aos always does at the wrong time) while she and the others recover, to lead to the last episodes, and Jemma having decided (gasp! agency) she's ready now and it could be first kiss and first time together because Jemma clearly doesn't mind, because she's decided she wants to be happy too, again, and they love each other and blah blah (have Fitz question her to be sure she's okay and ready etc) and then six months hiatus after the finale? In which they did use something to slow Hive down that Jemma created too?

I'm sorry to say that I was nearly laughing when you talked about how much you hate the pregnancy posts because god, I Felt it in my heart. I also had to resist responding to those. It's not just the obvious reasons, but what kind of show do you want it to be? Do you want her gone? Do you want her to be a pregnant woman who chooses to be in the middle of combat and be super stressed out while being punched and hit and shot? She's not working in an office or whatever, she's working in contact with a thousand things that would make her lose the baby. And once she has the baby, I doubt she'd leave the poor newborn with her parents, which she hasn't seen in years, and go back to SHIELD.

Like I said, I am SO SUSPICIOUS of her parents. The way she instantly blames herself as copying mechanism and tries to be diplomatic on Fitz's behalf when he's rude. A father who tells his 7 years old to put her troubles in a box instead of 'come talk to me' (a 7 years old who has a lot of troubles apparently) exactly like you brought up with copying mechanism. A mother who never really gets mentioned and we only know she has because they speak of 'parents' plural. Her already being isolated because she's that much of a genius like you said (and also someone who clearly doesn't know when to stop when working, or how to take care of herself properly when extra focused or stressed out, and I have to wonder if it's even healthy to take 2 phds before age seventeen considering the amount of work to get each of them and how much you have to study before. Real world geniuses usually only have one before that age, if that much). (I absolutely see her as autistic, and I ended up researching it so much that, fun fact, I still wonder if I am because it would explain too much and it's also in my family anyway) Also while the comics don't really count because they write what they want, someone must have felt the same way because 1) Jemma felt the need to lie about being shield and said she was a party planner (so implied that even as a minor she somehow got to to leave for the States and be in SHIELD without having to justify it too much) and 2) her father is a CEO of Roxxon, the big ass evil multicompany that has also appeared in SHIELD. And in the deleted scenes when Jemma doesn't know how to help Ward with the Berserker, she does mention that she can't answer her parents questions either. While those don't count for canon aos, it feels like some writers felt that way too.

MAMA MAY AND JEMMA gave me so many feelings uuugghh (also because like you said she's usually more daddy than momma... and that STILL makes me suspicious of her family lol particularly this being the super rare case of 'genuinely bad mother' that nearly never happens in Marvel because it's always the dads who seem to decide what turn the character's lives will take). Have May and Jemma really interacted in season 6? I missed episodes so I'm not sure? I know she was super happy to see Fitz alive, which hey, fair, and that Jemma is the reason she'll likely survive, but... I miss them talking because while Coulson kinda messed up with Jemma even if with good intentions, May had such a good influence on her.

Agree fully on the racist bit. It was never about taking from Yoyo.

OH AND YES, I FORGIVE DEKE TOO. Because it was a different context. It's just that this being aos, it becomes part of a much bigger patterns of people criminalizing Jemma for her attempts to cope while also expecting her to do it silently and alone. BUT in poor Deke's case, he was trying his best because he did want to share, and he did want to bond with Jemma too, and was also all alone (most of his life, really) and is still learning how to interact with people in a non dystopian world.

I agree with everything so much. The fight in Inevitable cemented for me that they are a horrible couple, they give me such bad flashbacks of all the most terrible couples I know in real life who 'love but don't like nor really respect each other' and it's not a good picture. It also confirmed that she really never even vented offscreen with Fitz, which would have been the last of possible satifying ways to go but still better than not doing it at all and Fitz somehow believing she's okay. The whole 'there is no time to do it' hardly works when she has had the time to comfort him about each and every issue he has had or at least has tried to, and no, his weren't always worse and it doesn't mean anything. He comforted her a couple of times, of course, with hugs and all that, but even if her copying mechanisms is that she pretends she's fine or is even callous about extra traumas, he SHOULD give it a try anyway (and the fact that her attempts to help him with his issues only work like a third of the time is also such a terrible sign and so horrible on her self-esteem). Forget for a second the Doctor too, because at least there he knows what she's been through, he 'can' deal with it later since he's involved and unable to process it hinself so he needs more time before he can touch the subject (also therapy, yes, both of them), so let's leave out for a moment subjects he can't touch much because they are too hurtful for him too and he could make bad mistakes....... KASIUS. Is your internet name Lilly? Can I say 'Lilly, what about Kasius!' for emphasis??

You know that Jemma has been literally enslaved by an alien being who decides how she has to dress, put make up on, has defafened her, has touched her face in a creepy way in front of you because she 'belongs' to him, she has to be very obedient, he finds her pretty, he is violent and scary. And you aren't all over her to find out what the hell happened, if she's functional, reassuring her she's never going back to him, want to kill him in the first place, keep trying to bring things up because if you don't know what really happened you could freak her out and also because she tends to shut down and this is a very big deal? She has to tell him that it's okay if this is a timeloop, they'll get home? And that Fitz is dead so will this Fitz ever know? (was Jemma really okay with having her face touched without warning after Kasius? Does she feel the need to put particular attention on how she'll choose to dress and wear her hair because it's her damn body? can you imagine the mini-plots there? Jemma getting temporarily deafened by an explosion and freaking the hell out without being sure of why? But I disgress)

and like you said, it totally sound like they didn't even like each other at all anymore. Also you said that Jemma was no peach and it's true, and important, because she told him that basically he forgot everything in favor of science and created things just to create them without thinking of consequences. On one hand, it's true and he still acted like he was sorry the framework had to disappear fully despite that. On the other hand he did mostly do it to protect people so she must not have believed that? On a third hand he called her out on basically being an evil scientist scared of the world who might hurt Daisy in s2 and how was that not brought up??? That in the end it was him who got actually dragged by his own fears and focused so much on scientific ways to protect people that he made a mess - and hurt Daisy in a very physical way ??? How unfair???? ? on a fourth hand, out of their universe, really, they really had Fitz become The scientist guy while she's the woman who has a more emotional understanding of limits when it comes to science. Okay.

I love how the writers manage to make both extremes and be so wrong. Fitz being all 'oohh you are always trying to be above others and decide what's best for them' is bad but so was 'I don't deserve you' as wedding vows. 'I don't deserve the person I'm dating' isn't exactly the healthiest way to be in a marriage, meaning that you'll hide your problems to avoid being a burden and make it worse, that you'll resent the other person for making mistakes just as much as you'll feel unable to open up because they are so much better than you that you feel inferior, and you might even self-damage your own relationship before you get abandoned and all that. It sucks both ways.

But because the show keeps separating them they ride on the happy wave that is 'we are back together! for a week or so!' kinda like Hunter and Bobbi who have a tiny honeymoon phase followed by them wanting to strangle each other. Except that FS never got time to show if they will reach that or not because they keep getting separated.

I always wanted Jemma to have at least one unconditional friendship that was just hers, not Fitz's, tbh. And more friends around her who wouldn't consider her part of a unit. (also let's be honest, if Fitz had twenty arcs about twenty different issues in which he played twenty different tropes, couldn't Jemma be the one getting a surrogate parental figure then?). Or Elena! Since Elena was going to stay she could have been Jemma's friend, they agree on speeding things up once they know they like someone and on cutting heads off lol Someone who could have stayed and at least have helped Jemma later on too, checked on her, make it more mutual in season 5 too. Ugh. So many lost possibilities. Hell, I like her bond with Deke, she definitely brings the best out of him too, the opposite of Fitz,  and he did feel a connection, was all soft about her, but the writers found important to make Deke speak to her about her future with Fitz and how she could save him due to the situation, the one time where someone could have just been there for her and let her be upset. I wish Deke had tagged along more, to stay away from mean/grumpy Fitz and be with someone who seems to genuinely like him, and Jemma could have taken a breath instead of being there as Fitz and Elena’s therapist AND terrified for her future. Just... speak to Deke about present stuff she likes, to cheer both of them up and teach him things. Try to come up with plans together, because she’s a genius and so is he, clearly. Doesn’t always have to be Fitz.  (But because Fitz didn’t accept him, the focus of their relationship this season too was that he finally had the chance to be liked by his grandpa and was so happy about it, so it was unbalanced anyway in terms of which grandparent he was paying more attention to) He is their grandson so of course he has an interest in them as a couple, but I feel like it was still better than the absolute NOTHING we always get. 

lillysbitchfest‌:

*nod* I get that, I really wish we had had more Trip and Jemma interactions no matter what- though I really shipped them and it would have been nice to have her be shown with some options because they sorta play Daisy as the “hot” one. Which I kinda hate in TV except Sophie being the hot one and that was because she was the con woman and far less conventionally attractive than Parker so that was fun but eee… yeah connecting closeness to sexual attraction between members of the opposite sex is a really common AoS thing which was actually part of my “I think Mack is gay” thing because he was close to Bobbi and they even sparred without any UST going on.

I’m far more annoyed at her becoming the unofficial therapist of everyone than I am at her being somewhat interested in a lot of- people (She made some eyes at Bobbi and I will stand by that). I think she was kinda written as a person who as you said would sleep with a guy just because he’s hot so getting some kind of sexual interest in people easily isn’t out side of that. And- now that’s she’s all Fitz all the time that’s something else they’ve taken from her. Like I’m not asking her to cheat because … ewww… but a few “now that is hot” moments on the side would be nice. … but then Fitz would act all hurt that she appreciates anyone else’s looks and ugh *puts head down* there is no wining is there? I really wish she could have been with someone who isn’t so … insecure and jealous because the Jemma who was admiring Mike would put her foot in her mouth a lot and it shouldn’t be a big thing! But it would be. And everyone would be all “poor Fitz!” So I guess in that way I see the opposite of you here. While still agreeing to the rest of your point.

I honestly hope she doesn’t like Mack that much. She shouldn’t. Other than him fitting into her “type” there is literally no reason she should want to be friends with him. Save that he’s nice to Fitz and she’s an extension of Fitz ergo being nice to Fitz is good enough, right? I feel sick again.

I have no problem talking to people who feel differently about ships, characters, story archs. At most I’m at “I’m not sure where you get that from at all” with most people who say bad things about my ships… and sometimes “Yeah it’s a trash ship, I don’t ship it because it’s a great idea for the character’s mental health and happiness I do it because it would be a fascinating story!” LOL, though Jemma/Will is not a trash ship but- Jemma/Hive that was something that should have been done in more depth even if it was CREEPY and HORRIBLE but given the set up that was something that should have been there in order to fully connect up the story, allow Jemma integration into the fall of Hive, helping her defeat her monster (for once!), and give an emotional resolution to the Will love story- since they decided to kill him. *sigh* - errr… that went off there where was I? Oh yes. Don’t worry too much about me, I like having deeper discussions about things and that doesn’t always mean agreeing on everything. I don’t expect you to ship Jemma/Will, cause I totally get pre-tainted ship (See Mack/Yo-yo). And I will hope that I don’t rip too much into the foundation of the idea of Fitz and Simmons for you but- ugh.

The worst thing I saw wasn’t even that scene… which was pretty bad, but it was Fitz going off on Deke about- well justifiably angry about but DAMN way too far Fitz and- ugh Jemma was telling Deke that Fitz didn’t mean it! and it was like “Battered Wife Warning! Battered Wife Warning!” I’ve NEVER seen someone do that in a place that wasn’t an abusive relationship and ouch. Talk about stereo types and the wife that has to tell her husband to behave… ugh. Jemma’s transformation into a home maker for an insensitive mentally unstable genius who is so much better at everything is almost complete… at least she wasn’t fucking pregnant.

Notice I didn’t say that the getting together scene was tone deaf, I actually partially liked that scene and thought “A picture of space!” line was hilarious. What I didn’t like was him going in for the kiss and again the no acknowledgment of the idea she thinks she hurts everyone around her and the guilt she carries. I think they should have given the rest of season 3 if they were going this direction to actually helping Jemma somewhat and some emotional honesty from her. (looks up about giving the Hive-Will Jemma connection a chance to be a story line and sighs) but no not tone deaf like the sex.

*puts head down* It hurts so much! Watching all of Inescapable and it’s so clear how much Jemma adores Coulson! (I mean she wont take his orders above her but still…) Memories with him are the only scenes where she didn’t break the… fifth wall to talk to Fitz in the current time. And she gets nothing for it… because Daisy is the daughter Coulson never had and we have to shove that at the audience so hard they choke if they don’t swallow it down. It’s almost as forced as the Fitz and Simmons stuff is… *sobs* Jemma is so … left out of everything she wants- she obviously craves love and affection from her superiors. Her teachers were probably her only “friends” growing up- it makes sense that she looks to them to tell her she’s good- and Coulson- he calls her all these things when she’s NOT THERE! And he gives Yo-yo Peggy Carter’s pin and- please stop me before I pull my hair out!

That’s nice that your giving a chance to nicer feelings about Will. I’m making icons for Jemma and Will of 3722 hours, and honestly there was only one time he was a grump after they made their hope-doom deal and that was when she wanted to go into the no fly zone which was him- being naturally afraid of losing the only other person on the planet and having 14 year atrophied social skills. Other than that he smiled a lot, talked to her about her friends, food they wished they were having, the tech in her phone…

Okay I get it and yeah *nod* Agreed. I’m sure she faked it a lot but at the same time she knew Will would … catch her if she fell. He caught her when she had a break down and helped her. There is a level of emotional trust between them that is sadly lacking with ANY of the relationships Jemma has now because yeah- Mostly judged as being scary. And yes I believe he would have continued to be there and encourage her to open up and- I wish they had let him live so much. Even if she chose Fitz and all that it would have been great for her to have someone in the world who loves her and puts her first. Damn it now I’m crying again… connecting it all in to what you said later, they never showed her having a plan until she got the sextet, but they did show him talking to her and generally seeming to try to keep her spirits up even if he didn’t think they were going home… and he fully committed to the star tracking plan pretty damn easily. Yeah a future there wasn’t very bright but again, I can see him doing his best because- he always did. *crying again*

I can honestly say that … Fitz how the fuck do you not know where some that trauma comes from? Okay you don’t get the long sleeves and gold pain but are you seriously saying you don’t remember shooting her in the knee and holding a gun to her head trying to make her say she means nothing to you- that happened! How can you fail to imagine some part of her that is damaged and angry about that?! HOW?! Even just magical pony Jemma on a high pedestal he made up in his mind surely he has to remember some of Jemma’s life - On that subject the Doctor/ID!Jemma makeout/sex was seriously the least believable bit in that whole episode. ID!Jemma isn’t villain!Jemma- she is repressed thoughts and pain Jemma. How would that version of Jemma be all turned on by the version of Fitz that had a gun held to her head to make Fitz preform anesthesialess surgery on Daisy while she watched? Are they trying to tell us that turned her on???? and she repressed it? EEEE. Please no…

Hunter would have made a GREAT friend for Jemma. But no see Jemma can’t have friends because she has to support Fitz and occasionally the main character and she’s not important enough for friendship or someone might notice how crappy she is treated by everyone? I-I don’t know. As far as I can tell the Producers think any scene with Jemma that isn’t with Fitz or about Fitz is a waste of run time. They can spare some of it to Daisy- probably because Chloe and Lil fight for it.

And no, no one ever brings up how things are also traumatic for Jemma just because they were more physically or visibly traumatic for someone else. The characters don’t rarely does the fandom- honestly besides like 5 people I know, in which I’m counting both of us, screaming into the void and occasionally like the set dressers and clothing designers I don’t think anyone else notices…

oohhh don't touch me with Leverage because I love it so much AND with Sophie it was subverting a trope: she was the oldest woman there, yet they made her the femme fatale BUT she was also very tender with her friends, she had lots of dimensions and a character arc, and her being the hot one was not only because she was attractive but also because confident and charming. Parker, who is one of my most favorite characters ever (and hey look, early aos Jemma and Parker: odd women with problems when interacting with people but a good heart yet ruthless with enemies) was the odd, funny one and sdkfksdjhfs and 'connecting closeness to sexual attraction between members of the opposite sex is a really common AoS thing' yes, actually, good point though I'm amused at 'hich was actually part of my “I think Mack is gay” thing because he was close to Bobbi and they even sparred without any UST going on' NOT because it's funny that your headcanon wasn't confirmed but because you gave for granted that a man near Bobbi would show some kind of attraction when sparring lol meanwhile I took it as 'aw they are pals, how nice' because it's RARE in general and I enjoy it (not that I would have minded a Mack who is gay. Why not) I actually don't see *Jemma* as attracted to Bobbi, while I can see why you see it? To me, she goes 'I like her' same way she went 'I like him' about that big alien guy who helped in s6 with a bomb or whatever and then died, she's very appreciative of people who are competent/helpful, but she's more visibly giving 'I'd do you' eyes when around people she finds hot. I saw it with Will (like a potential in the first weeks, that to me is the reason why she escaped physical closeness at first, since after all she agreed to go on a date with Fitz and was fantasizing about it, so she felt guilty for noticing Will was attractive, but that's my headcanon. I feel like Jemma going to sleep when she looked at Will from up close after talking about Fitz was one of those moments), with Fitz (but not in s1, in scenes of the second half of s2 and after. Liz is really good at conveying things when told by the writers), with Mike (definitely in s1). Not with Mack, it was always more like 'I'll try to bear your presence' eyes in s2 lol or even Bobbi, Daisy, and frankly as much as I can ship them *I* didn't see them with Ward either, that... not only 'hell yeah' face combined with her being a bit awkward but definitely giving a vibe that says 'I'm totally into casual sex just so you know' that I saw with other people. This isn't even an important point, this is just me writing what I subjectively saw in the show lol you can totally stand with Jemma making eyes at Bobbi, I know a lot of people do, like you saw it in s1 with Ward. Meanwhile (and talk about trash ship!) I could have sworn Ward was getting a bit too much into how savage Jemma can be in s3 lol and then it went to hell with torture, of course, but like, if Ward had been written to stay a grey area character, I wouldn't have been terribly shook seeing Approving Looks from him. But YOU tell me who you think Jemma wanted to do because I’m curious lol 

(I actually don't usually ship or read about trash ships, I'm more vanilla? more for wholesome ships, even when starting with slightly grey-dark premises, aka Jemma bonding with Ward since the vault time and him taking a different turn in life, for example, but between them it stays healthy. HEALTHIER than how aos wrote Jemma in season 5 because screw that, it looks like if she had been in love with Ward in s1 she'd have been the exact same with him in s2, *even* if they had chosen to have Ward use her for it, or she'd have thrown her morals away if he loved her back, and would have been mad at Fitz for not wanting him free, I guess, and with the way the writers wrote her, not have vented with Ward about anything but just become his therapist-wife. Hell, I always made a point of writing her NOT doing that, in a realistic way if I can be not-modest for a minute, keep all the early Jemma traits and even have her work on some... emotional rehab for both herself and Ward, which is what also actually gives her a reason to know 'the steps you take don't have to be big', I write her as also finding comfort in him, and then the show was like: she loves him so she'll put aside all the pain and how uncomfortable she is to stand by his side and then it will be mostly forgotten. Okay. Thanks.) (and I also still write her as not being able to read nonverbal language much and actually telling him that and being hilarious in her own way, and vindictive, and still Jemma, who talks too much about random facts. And now that I’m writing this I feel like you’d ship them the way me and my friend write the couple the same way you ship WillJemma lol)

AND NO, you know what, I re-read and I totally gave the wrong impression because I too am super okay with her being interested in a lot of people, hell, I LOVE to have a female character unapologetic about it because it's so rare, there are so many double standards about that too. And I can also be okay with her not being much interested in people anymore because she's so into Fitz that others don't exist (I am NOT okay with her being the unofficial therapist instead) because it could happen. For example I always write her as attracted to people, yes, but mostly channeling her libido into all the sex-things she can do to them, with them, like, not demi-sexual but someone who loves to be as creative with it as she is with science, and if she finds one special person she sets her eyes on then everybody else is, yeah, aesthetically beautiful, but she's not interested in doing them so she can keep her chill because her libido is there but her attraction is connected to what she can *do*. It's a weird thing that I don't know how to explain better lol but at the same time that means I'd appreciate seeing her a bit more... lust-driven with her boyfriend/husband than soft. She *is* soft, but to stay true to character, if she’s not going to be attracted to others lets have her eye Fitz sometimes, like... oh he's wearing that shirt, I'm going to be touch-y until interrupted or ‘hey he’s clearly into me giving orders, let me rile him up’. Because she's not just a girlfriend/wife, she's a woman who found an excuse to touch Mike's chest. Now that she's with the guy she loves and she's attracted to him, why not keep writing her as... that funny, into sex kind of character she was before? Why does she have to be... mellow? I don't know if I'm making sense right now lol it's that I'm so used to how media portrays the men like that and the women more into being sentimental and with less sex-drive, and Jemma... gave me the vibe that she wasn't like that, and yes, that was also a way to subvert tropes, Fitz could have been the softer-romantic one as he was meant to be, sentimental, which isn't even just in romance but in the way he wants to believe in friends, and Jemma is the one who yeah, likes romance, but ends up being more practical in her dreams (a house, a lab), more 'okay I love you but you are also hot, let me imply kinky stuff', also very sentimental but she can't express it as well so you realize it through her actions (keeping photos everywhere, keeping snacks for her friends). Because, stereotypically speaking, she was written more as 'the guy' and I loved it, since in real life you don't actually get all couples divided by stereotypes but you get a mix of traits. And I'm asexual, so I'm not sure why it's so important to me if not because I want to see that more in media, but I still felt like she was... representation for women who enjoy sex without it having to always be about feelings or about 'missing something and finding comfort in sex', no, just... you know, it's fun and they like it, and when they are in love, they still like it but get it more in the regular and aren't always soft and gentle and comforting.

... and I'm glad you don't like cheating storylines. I don't even like the implication that Jemma or Fitz have sexual or romantic feelings for their friends that they express when the other isn't there, to be honest. You can touch a friend or hug a friend, without it having to be a secret from your partner because it was 'not platonic', come on. One thing is to want it  or ship something or say that in another context it could have been a different thing, but to say that in canon there are romantic things happening when the guy isn’t there... no. But I do have big issues with cheating. 

And YES, if she ever looked into another guy, dr 'I'm jealous of my own self' Fitz would be in pieces. Then again, the writers decided Jemma could be jealous of Aida the robot (a ROBOT) and Ophelia the brainwashing dictator, so like... weird, weird, weird.

also I'm sorry, I'm gonna copy another things you wrote because it's just too true: 'allow Jemma integration into the fall of Hive, helping her defeat her monster (for once!), and give an emotional resolution to the Will love story- since they decided to kill him.' like, they set Hive up at first to be Jemma's enemy. God forbid Jemma gets to... actually participate directly into his death. She didn't get to save Daisy from him, she didn't get to make a serum to do that or to save Lash, she didn't get to be part of his defeat, COME ON. She didn't even really get to show serious permanent changes after Maveth. The whole 'she got stronger' thing... honestly? Season 4 Jemma is exactly how Jemma would have been if in power during s2b. Actually, in s2b, she *was* already hardened, she just had the entire base against her and had to deal with an enormous amount of pain, but she was also more murder-y, the Furiosa attitude totally existed, even if with less chances to show. The smirk when she tricked Bobbi and knocked her out? The satisfaction when playing the Other SHIELD and sending Fitz away with the toolbox after that little bit of acting? Snapping at MAY? Violently fighting Bakshi with her bare hands, kicking him really far into the room after shoving in his clothes the splinter bomb she (stole) planned to throw at Ward? Almost grabbing her gun to kill Ward and when unable to do so, smiling in the face of death, pushing him to do it and get it over with it? Only breathing out when Ward was out of sight, then calming down and finishing the mission? Admitting that her only problem is that she didn't get to kill Ward? Making sassy comments against May and Bobbi, lying about wanting to go help poor Mike as a doctor so she could try to kill Ward, shooting after Raina, finally fighting back against Fitz’s accusation when they became about her being a danger to Skye, how was Jemma so ‘different’ after Maveth, what did the writers give her after that arc that she didn’t have before as a character? (all things never present in videos about aos ladies kicking ass for some reason btw, unless the youtube is a big Jemma fan, they'll just show her getting in the elevator in hydra and then soft nice scenes if any, like??) Point was, the second her storyline turned into a 'Jemma and Fitz now get along, will they get together?' and 'they got together!' it was over for her having any other kind of closure, fighting her own monsters, having other storylines that went anywhere. Not that I don't want Daisy to also, sometimes, kill the big bad guy, because 9 times out of 10, Coulson and Fitz do it. 

and please, you can go against FitzSimmons as a couple as much as you want with me (and I myself wouldn't really try to change your mind about Mack and Yoyo either, so this is basically just a nice conversation about OUR pov and how much we hate FS lol). I often find qualities in Fitz too, I'm not against him as a character, so sometimes I disagree with some things and I tell you about it, but that's it. One thing I don't disagree with is how annoying it is to have Jemma go 'he doesn't mean it'. PLEASE. 1) he means it 2) again the whole turning her into a stereotype, couldn't Jemma be the harsh one? since it fits her character better and it was the whole reason she had issues in s1 and s2 especially with Fitz and was considered scary? since when she even gets that sensitive? Not that she'd be harsh to Deke, but it’s not even the first time Jemma has to take the ‘calm down’ role with Fitz. It also still makes me think about how lovely it must have been to be around Fitz in the first months after the brain damage. 3) Fitz is written in such weird ways sometimes. Can you imagine if he had been that rude with Hunter in s2? Who is NOT that different from Deke, at least from what Fitz has experienced with both, unlike what the viewers have seen? Except Hunter would tell him to fuck off. So this actually feels worse because Deke wouldn't. 4) Jemma, just tell Fitz to calm down and keep telling him??? If it's a problem for you that he mistreats your grandson, take Fitz aside and tell him it's a problem for you. He's not supposed to vent like that on other people. They are not supposed to be understanding, they are all stressed out, not just your husband. 

PRAISE EVERYTHING THAT SHE WASN'T PREGNANT. I'm not even joking when I say it made me sick, the idea of any storyline in aos with the addition of Jemma being pregnant -as if btw they could write her in those episodes being pregnant and realistically being able to keep the baby and not have a miscarriage. She'd have to leave aos. But it would be extremely gross regardless.

No, you didn't say the first kiss in the room was tone deaf, but it was spontaneous for me to compare because the first scene works for me (also hey! this is one of those rare things where we disagree about! lol because to me that first kiss came mostly from Jemma, she gave him a signal when she looked up like that, to you he went for the kiss first. So see? We can agree to disagree sometimes) while the sex one is... weird and tone deaf but I think you may be forgetting another hella tone deaf scene which is: holding hands in the 'snow'. It could have taken ONE SECOND to have Daisy somehow communicate she was 'fine' through comms even if it was a lie, and lead Jemma to relax and hold hands with Fitz, smiling, and okay later offscreen find out Daisy got beaten up. But to have Jemma wonder if Daisy isn't the one dying on the rooftop and next time they see the ash 'it's not snow' 'I think we are supposed to hold hands now' relaxed, just like that?? Not knowing if Daisy was dying up there? because the fight was barely over, we basically saw that Daisy didn't get to say anything, we know they can't know what's going on in the rooftop. It's like the writers had a checklist of moment that had to happen and it didn't matter what else was in the episode.

can you imagine one Jemma-Coulson or Jemma-May episode in which they realize Jemma sees them as a parental figure too (I will never trust her family to be as happy as it looks from her words) even without Jemma having to say it because she'd die before acknowledging feelings like that, and them softening over it, trying to, every now and then, pepper in some approval for her? May too since they *are* close, and it's rare, and Coulson would still be closer to Fitz while May and Fitz aren't as much, so Jemma would get someone looking out for *her*? The Peggy Carter pin was so controversial in the fandom because people immediately said we were mad that a woman of color got it. No. It has nothing to do with that. It has to do with the fact that if in a fictional story you introduce several times the fact that a character idolizes a dead character and then you get the dead character's objects in a box, you expect to have one given to the one who idolized them. While the woman of color in question could either get one *too* OR, better, be given something else just as precious. It's not that I don't want Yoyo to have things or have her worth recognized, which by the way she does? she was immediately welcomed and considered an amazing addition to the team? it was just a matter of how stories usually get written. Especially when Coulson has super short interactions with Jemma or about Jemma compared to others. (and gives Jemma for dead while there are still leads that can be followed and lets her go undercover alone after a massive trauma without suspecting things could go wrong, and probably asks her to not tell anyone since she's going undercover but that point has never been cleared, like you really think Skye would be okay being told 'she left and never wants to be contacted again' and not check on Jemma's internet history to see where she is and if she's, idk, suicidal? and by the way Coulson specifically told Mack that Jemma left because she thought Fitz would be better without her, and not only Mack doesn't tell Fitz, seemingly because he wants to give her the chance to do that, but then accuses Jemma of making him worse?? ok)

Will would 'catch her if she fell': you gave me au biospec feels with that tho lol how dare And the show and fans might be okay with the fact that like you said there is no emotional trust between Jemma and others because she got judged and all that, but personally I will never forgive the show for not having FS have a talk to give us some kind of resolution after all the s2 angst. You don't write an entire season arc about two people not talking and then have them made up because there is an enemy and never bring up the problem again. Or make us assume they did it offscreen EXCEPT that Fitz still accuses her of leaving for the wrong reason (or considers it Jemma being holier than you and deciding for him there. I'd like to know what other options she realistically had). I will never forgive that Jemma never got to say her reasons, never got comforted about those either (apparently Deke yelled at her for not telling him Fitz was dead and out of context I'd be okay with it, but this is the 50st time she gets yelled at and not comforted because she has issues dealing with emotional traumas), I will never forgive that Jemma didn't get to be angry that Fitz 1) assumed she'd leave because he was brain damaged and couldn't accept it, which says a lot about how he sees her 2) went to tell everybody that she either left for that reason or because she doesn't love him, behind her back and making it public without her permission 3) later on convinced Skye to keep her powers secret, risking Skye's life for all he knew, because he decided that Jemma being different meant she was also more cruel, due to how he had interpreted her actions before, and basically once again yelled at her about it in front of people, sharing his thoughts about how she abandoned him before and why would she be any better with Skye? She handled his change horribly! If a friend of mine got angry at me for disappearing without explanation, I'd absolutely take my responsibilities for it. If a friend of mine went to tell people I'm a shitty person who abandons people because -insert false information that I didn't confirm - I’d go argue with them. If they told me that they think me capable of hurting our common friend, I'd tell them to go to hell. I didn't speak to one of my best friends for one entire year, until SHE came back, because she accused me of being a bad friend to a third friend over things she didn't fully even understand, and questioned me aggressively. I told her to fuck off right away. So imagine how well I took that storyline.

And you are perfectly right, Fitz SHOULD know that she has a certain amount of trauma-related emotions about the Framework because he *was* there when shooting her. It just makes no sense. If it helps you not throw up, I think the semi-serious moment between ID Jemma and the Doctor was meant to show that when Fitz and Jemma reminded each other that they were in love but also vented and yelled their feelings, the parts that they usually repress could come out and get along because they weren't hiding them as much anymore, because they accept each other's flaws... plus the Doctor likes scary women and Fitz likes ones in charge, and I guess ID!Jemma is pure instincts too so anybody would do, but especially the one that in real life she loves when he's in a 'good' version of himself? She's turned on by Fitz once they yell I love yous, I guess? Because that's also not the 'Doctor' in the real sense but a representation of him? She might also eat him later like with Mack for all we know lol or maybe it's just that Jemma stopped feeding the box with repressed emotions and her subconscious started to align again with the fact that she loves Fitz... ..... on the other hand 'I didn't know you'd like that' 'I didn't know you'd do that' after less than ten seconds... what kind of super kinky move that Jemma wouldn't dare ask about could they have been doing? Do Fitz and Jemma NOT talk about kinky stuff either, much, because she's worried he'd judge it?  I was about to say 'they have been together for years' but... thinking about it, as a COUPLE, they have been together much less than a year. MUCH. At MOST a month after their first time at the hotel, then six months before s4 (in which Fitz was gone so often that they missed each other and Daisy was told by Jemma she barely sees him), s4 itself was one month and a half being generous (and part of it was with them separated), then they were separated again. Season 5 didn't last too long after they were reunited (and that Fitz is dead) so... they haven't known each other as boyfriend and girlfriend that long. Most of that time was also spent in emergency mode, not in domestic mode, not learning what it's like to be with each other in a romantic sense and what they expect from each other and who they are as people and as a couple after all those traumas and changes. They just... what, assume that there is no difference best friends (who barely talked about emotional stuff) for a decade to barely speaking for a year and then getting together as a couple there'd be no difference? And they still don't know what it's like to have a normal married life, and they don't know what they are like because they changed so much since they joined SHIELD, if we are being honest, and they never got to really adapt to it because they barely spent time together after those changes, but they assume they are the same people they were before, same way to interact, same habits, and the writers went: sure, this will work, no need to adjust, perfect couple. There is growing up and there is living through what they did. 

Can you imagine (of course it wouldn't happen) Fitz and Jemma getting to spend two-three months of peace in Scotland and realizing that they aren't really in love with one another because they are so different from who they were when they fell in love? and that they don't know how to deal with the other's moods and problems and consequences of their traumas? That the fact that Jemma holds in every issue means that she kinds resents him every now and then, that it's not so charming when Fitz gets grumpy about everything and needs constant comfort when the stakes aren't 'let's save the world, and this is super hard and painful so we need to help each other' but are 'the weather is shit today and the clothes didn't dry properly and the experiment didn't work but now we have no time to keep staying at our little lab because we also need to get groceries and we both didn't digest yesterday's dinner for some reason so we are both crabby'? Jemma isn't as excited about new things anymore, she's tired, and she kinda wants to relax but still feels the need to go out and make sacrifices and feels guilty about being home, and she can't read his mind anymore, and Fitz isn't as trusting of people and is so ready to be rude instead of friendly, and misses more exciting scientific projects even if they are dangerous?

They are not the same people, they don't like some of each other's changes, they don't talk about it, they never really opened up and dealt with it, they don't know who they are like and what they are like with each other now, they had no time to try real normal life, and that sounds like a recipe for disaster when you add 'married within a year of going from friends who didn't communicate to couple in constant emergency state that also doesn't communicate'

Uuggh it would have also been so neat, in writing, have three duos: Jemma-Hunter, Daisy-Mack and Fitz-Bobbi in s3. Hunter was even stuck in the base with her. Over his REVENGE-ANGER ISSUES. Against WARD. He felt useless. He was kinda treated like he wasn't wanted. What more reasons for them to bond? (and he was a lieutenant in the SAS, an amazing soldier, but he was healthier than most people by talking and complaining about problems and wasn't super serious so he was treated as a joke, but that's a whole different topic). But noooo Fitz got to have Hunter and Bobbi comfort him about Jemma's feelings for him while Jemma was in her room, refusing to cooperate with a therapist, or chatting with the injured therapist who confirmed that you feel weak when people try to help you (??? great attitude dr. Garner.) Also love how for some reason she can just decide to not go to therapy but then can go on being in the field. Sure, you can't be forced to go to therapy, it doesn't work that way. But in most jobs, if you need to be cleared for work, either you choose to leave your job or you cooperate in therapy and try to get better. You don't just... mock the therapist, decide you don't need it, and go back to work to deal with... murders and guns and killing people and the end of the world coming.

this is the longest reply ever I’M SO SORRY

lillysbitchfest‌:

(I had a bunch typed up but then my computer crashed so I’m going to scream at the void and then try to recreate this-)

I gotcha- and don’t worry- I signed up for ranting and angry nit-picking based on my choice of conversation here, so be angry about Jemma’s one way relationships away. Particularly with Fitz because… yeah.

Trip thing- I believe Trip was initially brought in to be Jemma’s love interest, I remember a report in like… TV guide about it or something? Honestly it’s been to long but they were interviewing BJ. I shipped it hard but- I get the complaint while at the same time they had some support from Ward that was not because he was interested- I mean I might buy she might had had a crush after FZZT, but I personally believe she’d gotten the message pretty early that he was into Skye and was just cool with being friends… you know because she’s an adult. *grumble loudly*

With Daisy- yeah she tries, and I’ll say they have the closest to a healthy relationship that Jemma has with anyone at this point. (Still going cross-eyed that some have said Daisy does all the emotional labor in their relationship… like wha???) I really wish they could have talked after what happened in S3 came out so Jemma could have talked to somebody without feeling guilty.

Good point about Bobbi- they probably did talk about Fitz off screen-ugh. I really did want to give her that one because I wanted someone to have been there for Jemma but- nope you’re right. Even that’s not there.

You said something nice about Will!

(More on Will at the end so you can skip it if you want but - weeee!)

What’s worse for me than Fitz not even considering that Jemma needed help was, which omg is so bad!- when he found out he was horrified, and not in a “OMG Jemma! How could I not know you’ve been suffering! Seeing you hide so much pain hurts!” kind of way but in a “How dare you have bad thoughts and be angry and sad! I thought you were perfect! You are horrible!” kind of way- you’re damaged and you need help is used as an ATTACK against her from the moment her damage sprang out of the music box through the rest of the episode. It makes me feel nauseous above all that that was never addressed. This is supposed to be her husband, the love of her life and he’s disgusted by the reality of her! I still love you isn’t good enough after that!

There is a reason I stopped at May in season 3- everything crashed and burned after that. It was a really good moment between two characters who both hold so much in and said so much about Jemma’s guilt complex and she let May in while keeping her at arms length because it made sense that she would be keeping everyone there and they were going to look for Andrew-Lash and then- yeah nothing ever came of any of that. Andrew came back on his own- Jemma decided fuck actually working on her friendship with Fitz and her guilt over the pains he’s had- let’s just date! and then had giggly sex with Fitz after they were both traumatized so badly there should have been sobbing and shaking and not being okay with anything involved- if they wanted them to have sex there, like okay, clinging to each other in the storm sex would have made sense there- giggling? No. It was tone deaf to everything else in the episode.

I didn’t even want to look at everything after that because it’s a parade of treating Jemma like this weird extension of Fitz. May’s lack of trust pissed me off so much. Daisy’s speech about about how meant to be they were and just ugh! Yeah massive negative numbers all around.

That last paragraph made me want to cry again. Jemma loves May and Daisy and Coulson so much- the way she admires Coulson and- *sob* Any hints of Coulson and Jemma family stuff is close to catnip for me drawing me back into this damn show because the wisps of it-  In the framework when she begged him to remember her and- *sob* then later when he fights for the first time to protect her- WE COULD HAVE HAD IT ALL! but no… Daisy is Coulson’s only daughter. He’s not even going to say nice things about her in front of her…

(and here is the Will stuff)

I disagree on him really being the doom and gloom of their relationship as it worked out far far more to Jemma was “We are getting off this planet” and Will was “We need to survive”. He was a grounding factor to Jemma’s tendency to throw herself into her projects without considering food and safety and stuff. His function never seemed to be “This is never going to work! Give up!” but “Don’t go there it’s not safe! Don’t die!” He had doing the impossible in his veins too. He added to the plan constructively, even came up with the- well if we can’t go maybe we can send the bottle idea… he never tried to eat her hope, he just didn’t want to get her killed. The only time I can think of him being a direct doom sayer was when she said “See it’s working already” and he replied “No it’s not” which was actually a bit of obvious intentional irony, since by disagreeing he’s agreeing- in the deleted scene right after he encouraged her to play his game by using his position as “doom” with a kind of “Nope not allowed to think you wont be good so you shouldn’t try- that’s my job” which… he wasn’t doing.

And while the flash forward to the last day was the only snippet we got of them, it’s hard to say if she was always faking being that happy or if it was because today was the day they were going to see the sun again finally. There was something very positive and special about that day- and Will did something stupid to try to cheer her up even more, knowing she likes wine, and actually drank straight vinegar, and- he spent a lot of the time we saw trying to give her reasons to smile…

oh the horror of losing a lot of stuff you typed! No! I downloaded the extension 'typio form recovery' to at least save what I type and it helped me many times!

and I don't know if the writers really brought Trip as love interest and changed their minds or tv guide writers saw it that way because HEY, the interest from Trip was there (then again Trip, the angel, was so ready for everybody lol in the Framework he was like 'so am I with you? Daisy? May? ... really?) and to be honest I'm not even complaining in a very angry way about the fact that somehow the writers seem to have a whole 'people who comfort Jemma do it because romance', because Trip was such a good guy, and it wasn't something they exaggerated with Trip. It was really me realizing in that second that THAT is also a pattern they tend to have.

And yes she's an adult! I can see Jemma eyeing the guy who saved her jumping out of a plane, a guy who looks like that, and being like 'yeah, I'd do him' but since he's into Skye she's like 'eh, moving on', but not like 'oh I'd like to be MRS. Ward' (not that you said that! lol) it's just that I'm so mad at the writers when I look at the bigger pattern instead of s1 alone because it was so cool for me to see a woman who loved so many gross things ("It's actually dripping!") AND didn't seem to have a lot of social skills (creeping out her friends at several turns) and didn't have the best ability to comfort others with words so she chose actions (thank you for not making a female character the unofficial therapist), and sometimes she did break into words and they were actually beautiful but only on occasion, and who likes hugs clearly but prefers little touches because she's visibly not used to that much physical affection, and who is unapologetically okay with having sex with a guy because he's hot and nothing more, and can lose hope because she's a human being AND isn't the one going 'no, we must choose peace and love and trust, we must try to find out why Ward betrayed us' like female characters usually do in tvshows and instead she was all KILL THE TRAITOR but appreciated her friend's heart anyway (usually there is no in between, it's just... female character: 'no, violence is wrong. we must use words. and yes, sometimes i might actually choose to fight but I'll just do it with words because physical aggression is a male thing.' or female character: 'I have lost all ability to be diplomatic and I'm disgusted by you weaklings who still believe in friendship'. With Jemma it was a nice surprising new thing: 'I do appreciate how trusting and good my friends are. Also we are at war and I will splinter bomb the enemy, after threatening him, screw everything')

NOW if we look at the whole show, at the majority of it, we have Jemma being the typical character who has had crushes on many men she interacted with for enough minutes (any friend who is an actual friend, not a coworker and that has been platonic from both sides? Because Mack and Hunter? barely interacted with them, I'm not even sure she does like Mack that much. Ward, Will, Fitz, Trip, Mike, there was interest from at least one side. It leaves out only Coulson because he's the dad), once she fell in love she only has her boyfriend/husband as the center of her life because she manages to isolate herself from friends while at the same time her friends put her relationship before everything, she's so amazing at constantly giving hope and having splendid speeches ready because hey she's a woman she must be good at taking care of people's emotional state, barely doing gross fun science stuff, so of COURSE she had to mention she had been attracted to Ward and laughed at his jokes (scenes we didn't see in s1) and of course she's in a love triangle by the time she says this, plot-wise, and of course the rest of s3 is about romance and her as damsel in distress instead of her facing the monster that hunted her in the planet or still PTSD-ing the hell out of it the same way Fitz's brain damage was a constant for the whole season 2 and not just the first half and kept bringing issues to him, and of course in s4 she becomes basically Mace's assistant instead of doing more scientific projects and Fitz gets to go out of the base and bond with Radcliffe. Of course Fitz is the one who gets lost in scientific projects and Jemma is the reasonable person who wants Aida gone, maybe even a bit jealous of a toaster in human form, and scolds Fitz for being reckless. The only thing they kept is her being pro-killing, thankfully, and I'm still mad she didn't kill Kasius herself, but hey, at least her husband and best friend came to save her and she couldn't seriously injure anybody, right?? UGH

Yes about Daisy but lol at ‘Daisy doing all the emotional labor in their relationship’. Nobody does emotional labor for Jemma because Jemma doesn't even admit there are emotions she needs help with. Daisy, as a friend, asks Jemma if she's okay every now and then. Rarely she gets a negative answer and tries to help, in good or bad ways. Jemma does the same identical things with Daisy. It's true that they don't get to interact much, but that's due to the life they lead. That's ALL.

and lmao I will not skip what you will write about Will at the end, I don't mind reading it. Like, I might not ship it, but I like to TRY to be objective even if sometimes I slip into salt because of the writers, and as long as you don't mind talking with someone who doesn't ship it, I have no problems. My primary concern is that I don't want to make this discussion a negative experience for YOU, which is my concern when I discuss with everybody anyway, so I try to avoid getting too deep into why I don't ship things OR I try to be respectful with shippers when explaining why (I wouldn't be so harsh when talking to a FitzSimmons shipper either, that's just not fun to read or interesting for someone who likes them). So if YOU don't mind, I don't mind XD I am enjoying all our conversations, it’s just that sometimes I physically die and disappear.

You know what though, because I wanted to see the scene in the finale between May and Daisy, I put on the episode and skipped a bit forward and I swear, I wasn't looking for it, but ended up right into a scene where apparently Fitz says something like 'oh I'll miss the technology involved in the Framework' because they are destroying it, and Jemma is like 'REALLY' angrily and he's like 'no, nope, joking. It was a bad idea. Radcliffe was a drunk, too'. Paraphrasing here but like... why does he keep acting like Jemma isn't fully traumatized by the Framework and wants nothing to do with it??? what are the writers doing? Why did he keep insisting even in s4 when he considered Aida a good idea and Jemma shut him up again because UNCOMFORTABLE (and the fans were mad at Jemma because of course then Fitz won't talk to her! she shuts him down!). I can totally buy that he was so absorbed in his trauma that he didn't realize Jemma was traumatized by Aida herself and started talking about her to make Jemma go back to adult size, but after everything he saw and heard with ID Jemma, he still looks at the Framework like 'aw, the tech was good tho'. Why? Shouldn't he be more aware that it's something Jemma would have wanted to kill with fire even before the LMDs happened? To me, despite what the fandom thinks, Mack was perfectly right snapping at Fitz in s5 too. Or Daisy telling him "this isn't Hydra, Leopold" because apparently, if you don't cut him deep, he doesn't realize he's messing up. If Fitz said something like that to Mack he’d get his head metaphorically ripped off (and look hurt, and the fandom would be mad at Mack again). And this, by the way, is connected to what I just said about how apparently Jemma is truly the 'responsible wife' who has to remind Fitz to behave. Jemma. That's not character development, that's turning them into stereotypes as soon as possible in their relationship while still bragging about writing such non-stereotypical characters in s1, even though they completely changed since then.

Absolutely agree about May too, and about how tone deaf some scenes were (I find their first kiss in his room nice, because their lives are shit so of course they have to try to take advantage of the rare good moments to keep living more normal situations) because the writers wanted to write everything as fast as possible by then, get them together while also dealing with Hived!Daisy. Maybe if they had had a talk on screen about how life is going so badly right now, that every now and then they should try to forget about the pain and focus on each other? (And Jemma already showing signs of 'hey, I'm good at that')

-imagine Jemma in the Framework, YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER ME, like you wrote, and how amazing it must have felt that Coulson only needed to look at Daisy to remember her name. He even had a bad vibe about Ward. A connection with FrameMay. But Jemma??? Nope. Stranger. She truly managed to be the LAST one he cared about, while still caring, among the entire Bus team, and the one with the least strong bond if you add Ward and can’t stay Coulson cares for him. He still hates Ward more than he cares for Jemma. Stronger bond. I don’t know if he’s closer to Mack too more than Jemma now, probably closer to Hunter than Jemma since they had weeks in Mexico and in general looking for Daisy and bonded a lot (as if it was needed, another trio for Fitz). 

-the Will stuff  you wrote, it's something I can and will think about. I mean, your point of view on it, how he wasn't fully Doom. I don’t think I’ll ever ship it - or ship anything in aos ever again, not with those writers, but I’ll be happy if I can be less negative about it. I don’t TRY to be negative, after all, I’m open to other people’s opinions (unless it’s like, when I go in tags and they are yelling them, because then I get even saltier about disagreeing lol) but the aos writers REALLY brought it out of me, assholes.  And let me correct something that I didn't write right the first time around. I didn't mean to say that Jemma was faking being happy on their last day together. I meant that yes, in that day, she found something to be truly positive about, but that in the previous month I can only imagine the Jemma we know doing... what Jemma does all the time, aka being too happy and ‘this is fine!’ given her situation because she doesn't know other ways to deal beside compartmentalizing until she explodes. Also because it’s not an amazing life, not Will’s fault, and while Will surely helped her it was not like Jemma had processed and was healing (too soon anyway) but more like she was avoiding the problem but found reasons to help herself smile because otherwise it’s too much, so she wasn’t... crying for days and then picked herself up, that doesn’t seem Jemma’s way to deal with traumas, or even recognize there is a big problem and try to find a way around it, she probably did her thing of deciding to be positive no matter what.   And then that day she was actually really happier, she does grab every chance she has to be happy for real, and that's why Will made that special comment of 'there is that hope again' which shows that Will noticed that Jemma is the kind of person who, while she can be genuinely positive, sometimes puts up a front and exaggerates the positiveness and acts like she’s not hurting. And that is more than we can say about 90% of her team including her husband, apparently. (It also means that Will has some common sense. He doesn't expect Jemma to really be all that hopeful and cheery right away, he expects her to try to be brave (and maybe he already learned she represses everything and is waiting for the right time to help because it’s too soon to poke at her walls), meanwhile her friends do buy that she's just fine. Way too fine compared to what she should be like even if trying to be strong. There is a difference between being strong while dealing with trauma and  avoiding it to look perfectly okay.) I was about to say that I can’t remember a time when Jemma didn’t exaggerate her positive attitude and desperately grabbed any reason to be happy to avoid thinking or talking about a trauma, and then I remembered it’s confirmed by canon with ID Jemma made of all the things she’s been repressing. Which she could actually process a bit later if people... noticed and kept trying to offer help even if she didn’t take it and were mindful of how they spoke around her.  See, whether I ship it or not, that line about Will noticing that there was some real enjoyment in Jemma, some real hope, makes impossible for me to believe that if they had stayed in Maveth longer - with some needed breakdowns - Will wouldn’t have kept trying to make Jemma express her emotions more, told her it’s okay to be sad, to cry, to be in a bad mood. I wouldn’t let her repress forever, just at first for a while because needed and then help little by little. Meanwhile, thanks to the bits I’ve seen of FS after Inescapable, I can tell you it’s impossible for me to believe that Fitz will do the same. I can also be generous and say it’s because he really believes Jemma is way healthier than she is and that now that she acknowledged that expressing your emotions is a good thing she will sort this out and ask him for help whenever needed. I can see Fitz having just gotten a glimpse of that monstrosity of repression and not knowing exactly where all the traumas came from, but given that at the end ID Jemma and the Doctor were in good terms he thought: alright, with my presence, she will lean on me when she needs it, it’s Jemma, she knows what to do, she was so functional even when repressing. It can be for that reason too, not just because he’s focusing on his traumas and more noticeable problems. He might expect Jemma to communicate more now. Doesn’t change the fact that I don’t see any future in which Jemma actually stops repressing herself around Fitz. (WHY couldn’t Hunter be Jemma’s close friend? Why did Fitz have to get all the friends, including the guy who is so not judgy about their problems, never even got on a high horse with Jemma, doesn’t judge Fitz’s dark side or anybody else’s, tries to encourage people to talk, was so relieved when he found out that Bobbi was doing ‘therapy’ because he expected her to do something more unhealthy, and could have been the ‘I’ll distract you but then we are talking about you’ bro for her)  I will rewatch Will and Jemma’s scenes when I have the time though, to keep your point of view in mind. Because honestly I did imagine him trying to reign in her enthusiasm about finding a way home especially before she had the sextant, simply because he already knew there wasn't any not with bad intentions ( and it was Jemma's idea, and to me it wasn't even a good idea to begin with, because SHE seemed to be in need of another voice of hope and then deal with the survival stuff, since she was already in an extreme situation and generally needs encouragement. Despite what being a love interest did to her, she ISN’T a good constant source of hope normally)  Also I gotta say, that fate that was awaiting them was absolutely horrible, it's not like 'we'll retire somewhere in the planet and live together without anybody else', it was a pretty nasty scenario that couldn't possibly end well. One sickness, infection of any sort, fall, and they are dead or in a world of pain, possibly have their bodies occupied by Hive or survive the other for years, alone again. Didn't seem to be a place full of food that would last two people a lifetime, never a sun which is terrible for your body AND your mood even if you don't think about the complete lack of technology, igiene products, past times beside having one person there, personal space since they gotta share the place, more clothing, enough provisions in the cave if they both don't feel well for some reason... so honestly I'd have expected Jemma to have another breakdown not long after going back to decades of darkness and for Will to have to support her through that too and start working on not letting her completely hide her emotions like that, since she has no idea of how to not compartmentalize. That's not even relevant but I was sorta thinking it while writing it, because it's... such a TRAUMA to start getting used to that life after six months stuck there, thinking you have to let go of going home forever, that the level of okay and normal she's been after, I'm sorry, is not 'I'm repressing it fully, in a realistic way, because that’s what I do to deal' it was 'the writers don't feel like changing my whole character and having to focus on my inner problems the way they did with Fitz in season 2 so they just created this magic ability to hide issues from everybody 24/7'. Realistically, just looking at tumblr, people can't even fully repress half a trauma without consequences, and Jemma repressed 8496 ones that were pretty extreme to begin with. It's bullshit. It's writing her as a love interest.

And then she does vent a few times and you get the three options: -a rare hug and attempt to reason with her -a more common: 'listen, about you and Fitz' or 'but Fitz' -it's completely ignored by the person she vented with in favor of either their trauma or even just that they don't seem to remember it or consider it a trauma for her too.

 Has anybody ever, in the show, beside maybe Ward bringing up she was in the pod too, acknowledged that the pod was traumatic for her? and not just because she and Fitz are fighting about it? That it was traumatic to be betrayed that way, to think she'd die there, to be forced to survive Fitz, to watch Fitz drown while she had to grab him and start swimming (he didn't get knocked out on the spot or Jemma would have been too, no, she got to take her breath and watch Fitz 'die'), come up to the surface and find out she's really in the middle of nothing with no help in sight, keep swimming? then wait for Fitz to come out of his coma, her best friend who gave her the last breath of oxygen? Knowing he was brain damaged? Has anybody ever just implied that it was traumatic for her too? Beside Bobbi saying 'I know what Ward did to you two' only so that she could start asking Jemma about her relationship with Fitz so it really was about the pain of a broken friendship, which of course is also traumatic when he's been your best friend and only friend for ten years, but not the only problem there? How the hell there wasn’t a mini scene in s2 of her waking up in terror in the morning, thinking she and Fitz are drowning? (which we could have used as a parallel to her waking up after Maveth. Her dreams being affected by PTSD.)

lillysbitchfest‌:

First of all I want to start with: You can always correct me- unless it’s a subjective opinion… I don’t want anyone trying to correct my dislike of strawberry ice cream on the internet, that- that seems silly even by my standards.

Times I can think of when Jemma was offered encouragement and support ( With the stipulation of that support not boiling down to telling her how much she loves Fitz)

Season 1 - Trip - first episode with Trip. He attempted to connect with her, told her Skye was lucky to have her as a friend, and said she was so good he’d want her in his corner should anything happen to him. Ward - Stuff you mentioned. and I’ll sorta count Hugs from Fitz in the train episode and Skye in FZZT…

Season 2 - … Honestly I got nothing.

Season 3 - Bobbi - When she went back to Harold the Hungry Space Rock and tried to put him together Bobbi tried to comfort Jemma, and then presumably let her tell her story? Will - Holds her while she cries and says she gives him hope just by being there. Complements her smarts often so I’ll count that as encouragement. May - During the scene where Jemma is practicing shooting Jemma is allowed to open up and reveal her thought process on things to May (Then this is immediately ignored because Jemma jumps into a relationship with Fitz despite thinking that she gets Fitz and everyone else hurt and this is not in anyway addressed first.)

… and that’s it. That’s honestly all I can think of. Maybe there is more?

Honestly I’m so pissed today because I was making icons from 5-10, an episode I haven’t even watched, and Not!Coulson is remembering things and- he remembers May and Daisy, and that’s it, because of course it is! I’d be mad on behalf of the other characters that don’t get to be part of “found family Coulson” more, except the isolation of Jemma is so much more than this one thing! Jemma is isolated from everyone in order to be shoved more firmly at Fitz. (then gets yelled at for being too attached to Fitz by the fans like she hasn’t literally been trained by all their favs that that’s what she’s for and that’s all she has…) I am so mad!

oh in this case I asked if I could correct you because come on, technically you were perfectly right, it’s just that I’m so salty and so angry that when I look back at the entirety of aos, it feels weird to consider the little crying she did on Fitz’s shoulder as ‘Fitz comforting her’ in a satisfactory way. Not after all the crap the writers pulled. So I had to be a butt and going ‘OKAY but if we talk about real help about a trauma, look at Ward after FZZT’. And TRIP. I HAD FORGOTTEN THAT HE HAD TRIED TO MAKE JEMMA FEEL BETTER about Daisy getting shot. Bless.  (thinking about it, soon after this Garrett said that Trip was interested in her romantically. What is with this show and not allowing people to platonically comfort each other when Jemma is involved? While Jemma does it for everybody?)  

so this is gonna be long to answer to your list: yes, in s1 I count Ward and Trip first because they spoke to her about a trauma, and then yes, I do give to Fitz that he went to hug her when she cried, but hugs when she cries to me already count less if I think about the concept of ‘Jemma Simmons vents about a trauma and gets comforted because someone cares about her and only her (not FS or themselves) in that situation’. Which excludes from my list also what happened with Deke and Mack in s5, btw: I’m sure they partly wanted to make her feel better too, but 1) with Mack she didn’t really vent, she was just clearly uncomfortable about what Fitz did and Mack made it about her as a girlfriend and how she should look at Fitz as a good man 2) with Deke she partially vented but the writers had already decided to have everyone go back to the idea that FS are one person, and he comforted her bringing up Fitz and she she can do with him too so meh.   oh, in s2, s3 and s4 and s5 I appreciate that Daisy at least asked her if she was okay and reminded her she could talk, the bar is SO LOW (cut scene of s2, where Jemma briefly vented about Fitz, in s3 right after Maveth, in s4 right after being buried alive, in s5 about being separated from Fitz again and sent somewhere different. Though the cut scene was about Fitz, thanks to the writers, s3 ended up with Daisy never being physically there. S4 was just a question about her physical wellbeing, and in s5 we reached the point where Jemma automatically answered talking about Fitz). Too bad there was never venting because Jemma refused to talk with the exception of the deleted scene. 

season 3 though, with Bobbi ‘letting her vent’ when she found Jemma working on the Monolith... we didn’t see it, so I’m not sure of how much I can trust that Bobbi actually comforted her, since we know that aos writers have people react with ‘listen, about this traumatic thing... I’m sure you and Fitz can patch things up again’. And when we did see Bobbi and Jemma interact in the gym after Jemma told her the story of what happened in Maveth, Bobbi tried to push her again to talk to Fitz about it. So I don’t know you, but I personally wouldn’t bet money on that conversation going somewhere different than ‘look, I think Fitz will listen and forgive you, and maybe help you find Will too, good luck’. Bobbi was basically there to be a shipper too, since she tried to bond with Jemma asking about Fitz, they were ‘friends’ like a week, then there was the Other SHIELD ordeal, and then Bobbi was in the infirmary and Jemma got swallowed by the Monolith, only to come back to a Bobbi who had spent months with Fitz, and whose scene consisted in her asking Fitz about his romantic situation with Jemma.  For Will, you know that for me it was kinda too late. It was after months of him being Doom to keep things ‘balanced’, so when she did break down and he encouraged her and tried to give her a reason to live with the fact that she gave him hope, for me it’s like... half a point in this conversation instead of a full one like what I’d give Trip. OF COURSE you can totally feel different about that, but these writers are horribly untrustworthy to me, it really poisoned the way I see her interactions. You know I don’t want to get too into it because the last thing I want is to be rude, you love them and that’s okay.   And look, brace yourself, because I’m about to write some positive stuff about Will now. After I can see him being more supportive since Jemma was falling apart, but Jemma had the same kind of smile she had undercover when ignoring the pain and likely didn’t vent or break, just did her self-imposed thing of staying strong and put problems in boxes, which at least Will saw through because when she got a bit excited about the wine he was like ‘there is the hope again’ and I hadn’t realized how important that line is to me until I started writing this reply, because this is after that episode where we saw Jemma’s trauma in ‘human’ form as ID Jemma and Fitz was like what is this???. Because it means that Will knew that in that month of them together as a couple, with her acting so chill about being trapped there forever so soon (because come on, in one month you don’t really accept that you lost fully hope of going home and move on) she was doing her thing of repressing and focusing on the good things, like their relationship and the fact that she could give him hope. (which I do too with my pains, it’s a defense mechanism, but at some point I gotta explode).  Which is more than can be said about other aos characters apparently. And something that I can totally appreciate. Like, WILL, who didn’t know her before this, did the math: after 5 months of trying so hard to go home and not live a horrible life stuck in a hole in a planet where it’s always night, now she has lost all hope and she should be in pieces for a while, but Jemma is acting a bit too okay with it, smiling, joking (we only got that one scene so we have to take it as a symbol of how she acted) and he must have been like: ‘there is no way a human being is that comfortable already, she must be avoiding the pain after that first breakdown and I will help her as much as I can until she’s ready to process. But I won’t consider her fully happy or okay, I’ll just give her some good things to focus on’. And when she got a bit MORE at ease, after this first month, he was like: ‘yeah, NOW I see a bit of real hope, because clearly you couldn’t have been that much okay before.’ You know. A logical person whose head wasn’t stuck up his ass. You are suffering trapped somewhere for years, someone new arrives, tries so hard, fails, and acts super okay, you KNOW they are not okay. Meanwhile, her team, including Fitz: Jemma has been through so many tragedies but she doesn’t break down, she doesn’t talk about it... no need to talk about it then, or to talk to each other about what should we do, if she should be worried, if someone should do something since we don’t have the ability or time to help? Daisy has tried a few times, but Jemma didn’t really talk, and then we have HER HUSBAND, in s6, say that he don’t know she was holding onto all of that and being so shocked that her brain is a mess? Fitz somehow didn’t know Jemma needed therapy or that she was holding things in? It doesn’t occur to them, somehow. Fitz has no idea that some things have even happened, like his LMD, but he knows others did, he knows about some of the things Aida is responsible for, and still used Jemma’s ‘’’jealousy’’’ to make her go back to adult form because he genuinely has no idea there is more to it, he doesn’t know Jemma is truly traumatized, because she doesn’t talk about it. And if she doesn’t talk about it, then she must be fine. For someone who doesn’t often want to talk to Jemma to avoid troubling her, he certainly got many occasions to vent and feel like crap, so apparently he can’t tell that Jemma might have felt horrible and have chosen to act normal and not depressed. Somehow they are all so engrossed in their lives that with only the tiny exceptions we have mentioned they just buy that Jemma is processing things in healthy way while simultaneously never venting about them or needing help and then they are like... Pikachu’s shocked face when Jemma acts ‘weird’ like too aggressive or too uncaring. 

And I will leave the Will bit at that to finish with the main topic, but you can be very proud of the fact that I wrote a positive paragraph about him because I had never thought about that line before lol (also you are absolutely feel to disagree about my feelings on this or anything else, you know I accept other people’s opinions) May, I agree fully about her helping in s3. May saw her at the shooting range, was confused by it, asked her questions, got her to talk,  tried to reassure her in the only way May knows, through actions (also asking Jemma for help in finding Lash/Andrew was one way to help Jemma deal with her guilt, because Jemma felt she was doing some good). Very helpful. Would have loved more interactions with May in later seasons since May didn’t make it about Fitz. 

so in my kind of... list of ‘people who get a point for comforting Jemma about her traumas without making it about Fitz or FS’ I’d be like:  s1: Ward and Trip get one point each, Fitz gets half a point for the hug because I’m taking the other half away after the way he dealt with the FZZT trauma (she had to comfort him) s2: Daisy made an attempt but... it was about Fitz? still, Jemma was the one who brought it up and she had problems with Fitz and that’s why Daisy did it, so point for Daisy? But in a deleted scene. Also in a deleted scene Fitz did went to put a hand on her shoulder when she cried about Trip but eh... again, I’m not feeling it in this chilli tonight. It was in the same episode he convinced Daisy to fear Jemma. No point.  s3: half a point for Daisy who offered to listen but then was gone so Jemma couldn’t have chosen to vent later, 1/3 of a point to Bobbi because we don’t know how that went but when we did see them. Half a point to Will because I’m taking half away due to his Doom role that partly, in my opinion, led to more difficulties, BUT he also did see that Jemma wasn’t fully okay and tried to ease her into life in Maveth, so... 3/4 of a point to him? lol point for May, a whole conversation about Jemma and later helping her and giving her suggestions on how she can change the future, not the past, and it was all about doing it for herself. -50 points to everybody else for only caring about Fitz’s side of it when they were personally involved. Though I get Hunter. Had he ever spoken to Jemma beside a ‘look at this photo’ ‘oh it’s Whitehall’ before?  s4: yikes. She never got to vent on screen about any traumatic or mean thing that happened to her: May believing her to be a traitor that fast, everyone gone all the time, May ‘dying’, being almost fired, the horror that was the LMDs battle, the Framework, Aida. If anything we are in negative numbers because it was her role to comfort Fitz after the Framework when, had the show been realistic, she should have been down in a fetal position crying for the rest of the year. s5: YIKES, reverse points to people for making it even more about Fitz or about themselves even the couple of times Jemma was visibly broken. Half a point to Daisy for asking Jemma if she was okay but I’m taking the other half away because she was asking it because she was ‘being separated from Fitz again’ instead of ‘being kidnapped and sent through a portal again’. Nobody even welcomed Jemma back when she returned from being Kasius’ slave. No questions asked. Minus a billion point to everybody. I can give 1/5 point to Deke for at least checking on her after Fitz tortured Daisy and had her hold at gunpoint, but we know how that went. s6: was all about FS as a couple, so she could only be reassured about it. I can give like 1/4 of a point to Daisy and Piper for being worried about Jemma breaking when they lost all traces of him, that much I saw. -10000 points to Fitz for being jealous about his other self and forcing Jemma to reassure him, without it working, right after realizing for apparently the first time that she’s messed up. Jemma had to comfort him about her most traumatic memories because she was the only one there. Also apparently only May and Daisy are affected by seeing someone with Coulson’s face. I’m barely watching/didn’t see the last episodes so I could be wrong. 

now imagine trying to list people and times, divided by seasons, in which people tried to comfort Fitz about anything. Or Daisy (though I’d take points away from them for the way some dealt with her being gone). Coulson got comforted a few times too. How many points Fitz’s friends get just in s2 for people checking on him, helping him, letting him vent, comforting him after he does?   (However poor May, who is like how Jemma would have been very soon if the show hadn’t been a coward, had that moment after ICEing Lash and watching him be taken away by Rosalind’s men in the pod, where she looked so hurt, and people asked Coulson if they should go talk to her (Mack?) and Coulson was like nah she deals with these things on her own/doesn’t like to talk about it or anything and idk, I feel like someone could have at least tried to make sure THAT was still true.)

but hey, people made a deal with Ward to find Daisy, and gave Jemma for dead when there were STILL leads to follow, abandoning Fitz to do it on his own, why would they spend time comforting Jemma when she’s so low priority

aside from the fact that I want this written on a poster for my room, but also these two sentences you wrote:

Just more… the writers

Maybe I’m reading too much into things but damn it just pisses me off.

like. that’s first of all a Mood. But it’s also one of the biggest problems for me now, which colors every single scene I watch, especially Jemma’s, that makes impossible for me to control the negativity, the fact that I don’t trust them in anything and see the worst possible scenario every time - which is usually confirmed.  I reached the point where, because I identify with the whole ‘being people’s hope’ a lot (BUT I also vent a lot and people support ME, to be clear, so it’s the balanced version of it, while I do have my issues with guilt, at least I have THAT and taking time for myself) and watching Jemma through the seasons put me in the weird position where now I can’t stand the idea of her encouraging anyone, supporting anyone. It’s enough. No, it’s too much. Like maybe I’d accept it after watching another character encourage her and support her the entire time, is there for her, tries to take care of her, THEN I can also literally welcome Jemma returning it and it being mutual. But right now I just ugh. Too much. 

(and can I correct a thing you wrote there, out of pure saltiness? In s1 she actually ended up discussing ‘traumas’ more with Ward than she ever did with Fitz. She literally cried on Fitz when Daisy was basically given for dead, yes, but meh, when the uprising happened she tried to keep control of her emotions while unsure of why she was still even there and when she realized that Koenig had been killed by Ward she shred one tear and then went to comfort Fitz; after hiding in the motel, she reassured Fitz again. In terms of opening up about things that weren’t as obvious, like after FZZT, she leaned more into Ward’s help, since he offered it, when admitting she was afraid, and I can’t exactly remember another occasion in which Jemma did some venting about her problems with someone, especially not occasions in which she was the only one upset and doing the venting.)

not online yet, dying from insomnia 

but I did see gifset of this episode and while I’m glad Jemma is telling Daisy she shouldn’t keep things bottled up… how is that really character development for Jemma? She’s been asking people to talk about their feelings since forever, it was her sole role in s5, all she did with Fitz in s4 was asking him to share

in s3 with dr. Garner she said she learned she should communicate more and gave Fitz her phone

suuuuure now she knows she shouldn’t bottle things up (she always did) but it’s not like she’s been opening up either, her last nice chat with Fitz was about comforting it over his jealously, not bringing up again that it hurt her to talk about the other Fitz, she didn’t say anything that I can find about how SHE feels about Coulson’s death and Sarge, or Davis who was a friend for a year (longer than she spent with Bobbi btw, way longer) or anything. She’s offering a shoulder to cry on to a friend, which has been literally one of the few character’s traits she has been allowed to have for seasons. 

like... character wise, it makes sense she’s a bit of a hypocrite many times, “take care of yourself! have this healthy food!” (gluten free biscuits to Daisy in s2 lol) while living alone with a fully empty fridge as soon as given the chance (oh I’m sorry, not empty, she had beer, sriracha and tea in the house) and similar things, so ‘open up, Fitz/Daisy/Elena’ goes well with ‘but I’m not saying ONE WORD about myself’. 

so it’s more like the fandom leaves me a bit... ??? and I don’t mean this with hate because hey, Jemma is your fave, you want to be happy about things, it’s fine, but just because she prefaced her ‘we are here with you’ with ‘I recently remembered that closing off is bad’ doesn’t mean there is character development. It means she remembered why she so spontaneously always offer friends a shoulder to cry on, but she is still not opening up and just being there for them. 

it’s like... every single season Jemma is good to inhumans: oh, she improved so much! Every single season: oh she became such a badass! So cocky too!

like, if you are saying it and she’s being like that every season, maybe it’s a core trait? She’s been nice to people who were ‘different’ since s1 when she knew what she was interacting with, and that nobody was about to die from it, she has been cocky in s1, she’s been a badass too with her limited skills to be so since then, and in season 1 Fitz told her she’s the best listener they have. If anything she’s only regressed to the point where while in s1 she opened up a little about being traumatized and showed fears, now she is petrified (defense mechanism) or pretends she’s fine. 

(... and yes, people are already saying that she was wrong saying that Daisy runs away. The only thing I say it’s wrong is that Jemma could have added ‘I understand that, I shut my emotions down when I’m in pain, that’s my way to ignore them’ to relate but WHEN would the writers acknowledge similarities with Jemma and let them support each other in a more natural way?) 

not online yet, dying from insomnia 

but I did see gifset of this episode and while I’m glad Jemma is telling Daisy she shouldn’t keep things bottled up… how is that really character development for Jemma? She’s been asking people to talk about their feelings since forever, it was her sole role in s5, all she did with Fitz in s4 was asking him to share

in s3 with dr. Garner she said she learned she should communicate more and gave Fitz her phone

suuuuure now she knows she shouldn’t bottle things up (she always did) but it’s not like she’s been opening up either, her last nice chat with Fitz was about comforting it over his jealously, not bringing up again that it hurt her to talk about the other Fitz, she didn’t say anything that I can find about how SHE feels about Coulson’s death and Sarge, or Davis who was a friend for a year (longer than she spent with Bobbi btw, way longer) or anything. She’s offering a shoulder to cry on to a friend, which has been literally one of the few character’s traits she has been allowed to have for seasons. 

not online yet, dying from insomnia 

but I did see a gifset of this episode and while I’m glad Jemma is telling Daisy she shouldn’t keep things bottled up... how is that really character development for Jemma? She’s been asking people to talk about their feelings since forever, it was her sole role in s5, all she did with Fitz in s4 was asking him to share

in s3 with dr. Garner she said she learned she should communicate more and gave Fitz her phone

suuuuure now she knows she shouldn’t bottle things up (she always did) but it’s not like she’s been opening up either, her last nice chat with Fitz was about comforting it over his jealously, not bringing up again that it hurt her to talk about the other Fitz, she didn’t say anything that I can find about how SHE feels about Coulson’s death and Sarge, or Davis who was a friend for a year (longer than she spent with Bobbi btw, way longer) or anything. She’s offering a shoulder to cry on to a friend, which has been literally one of the few character’s traits she has been allowed to have for seasons. 

@whistlingwindtree replied to your post “@whistlingwindtree I feel like the ppl who would complain abt Jemma...”

I see what you're saying! Sorry I didn't mean to sound like I was disagreeing with your experience!

oh please, as if you’d have to apologize even if you disagreed lol  I sound passionate when I talk about stuff but you could happily tell me ‘well, I feel different about it and here’s why’ and that’s all. No need to apologize, and you didn’t even sound harsh or anything, plus you did have a point. People are also sometimes extra harsh on Fitz. And on other characters as well.  

lillysbitchfest‌:

saltyaos‌:

lillysbitchfest‌:

So much agreed!

The only thing I disagree was she was shown to be attracted to Ward in season 1 after he jumped out of the plane and then was being so nice and supportive of her. (Having a crush on him while he was doing that makes so much sense, given literally no one else was doing that for her) and Will was shown to be her type after her ogling Mike’s muscles…

Other than that TINY bit… literally all of it.

I just can’t stand that I keep running into that stuff… no matter what I’m reading on the show I’ll find someone insulting Jemma for failing to be perfect to their fave. Arge! One more post about Jemma letting Fitz out because she Wuvs him and is on his side, not, you know canon, that she let him out only because she disagreed with Daisy’s plan and thought they needed Fitz’s insight on things to save the world, and I might just snap and actually reply to them…

see, that’s the bit I always just see as platonic from her: her and Ward in s1 lol not that I’d fight you on it, come on, I ship her with an au Ward who has the same personality (I ship it SO MUCH), it’s just that I see her as going from ready to fight him to more friendly in s1, but I didn’t see her be all hffhgjfdg like she is with Mike, so that sudden mention right in s3 really sit wrong with me. But also due to context aka the writers. Far from me to have anything against Jemma ogling muscular men, come on, I’m always in favor of women owning their attraction in fiction and real life lol but… frankly I think at that point I was already side-eyeing the writers about everything concerning Jemma.  I also find funny the idea that Ward who is so… well, handsome and cocky would not get a serious reaction from the woman who was basically groping Mike lol but again, it’s not a big deal in itself, different interpretation (and ugh btw if Ward had been a triple agent for Hand and had revealed his real personality in s2 I’d still be shipping them to this day. They are both confident, both vengeful, both wanted love but at the same time are independent, both get shit on by the writers and retconned, both have their own musical intro while getting ready for the day in s2 lol, Ward in s1 consistently looked after Jemma and complimented her (and hell, let’s be real, villain!Ward in s3 after all the things the writers did to him was clearly approving of Jemma’s real personality too, the Furiosa comment and look on his face, which is good, no need for Jemma to hide any side), Jemma is apparently capable of being extra compassionate and encouraging (and let’s be real, Ward soaked attention like a sponge, he didn’t reject it), but I am TOTALLY GETTING LOST INTO THIS COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY SHIP COMMENT )

when in reality what I wanted to say is OH MY GOD THAT’S RIGHT, YOU BROUGHT UP THAT JEMMA HAD TO FREE HIM BECAUSE SHE DISAGREED WITH DAISY. People always forget that?! I myself am mad at Jemma for how she was written after, when she was fighting with Daisy and looked offended that Daisy felt betrayed. Which is still IC. Jemma is absolutely the kind of person who will do what she believes to be needed, yeah, and then be like: I did the right thing and I can say and do what I want. It’s both a flaw and something I enjoy watching, makes her more real than being all perfect and apologetic, but it still drove me crazy because the show was ignoring what Fitz did to Daisy and nobody was really on Daisy’s side, Mack was giving speeches about the good in the Doctor. But on the other hand Daisy was so focused on rescuing Coulson, that she was ignoring other important things to do. The team was in pieces or she’d have had to order to other agents to go check out that hydra place too, but she didn’t, and Jemma was right to go and make sure nobody would get their hands on the gravitonium machine. So it’s a bit complicated, Jemma had a wrong attitude and if she hadn’t been trying to apparently play Fitz’s case offscreen maybe Daisy would have listened to her concerns, Daisy should have sent someone to cover all their bases and not just looked for Coulson, Jemma shouldn’t have freed Fitz the way she did (also not sure he was 100% needed there) and they kinda turned it into a ‘eh honeymoon time’ even though there were fifty issues to talk about, Jemma’s mental health was going to health with the acid and the comment about ‘science is sound’, BUT Jemma didn’t free Fitz for fun and to run away and elope, she had to get him out because they truly believed, and were right, that something could be used against them in that building. And if they hadn’t been there, Ruby would have collected the machine, have had people fix it, and turned herself or someone else into what Talbot then became. 

MMmmm Fair enough on not seeing the crush on Ward, I’ll just continue to slid it under “makes sense” (And ooh, yes I love that Ward and Jemma are similar people in a lot of ways, it makes them much more interesting as lovers or as enemies than a lot of the more, shall we say- forced? dynamics in the show.)

If Jemma disagrees with you, she’s going to ignore your orders and lie to you about it. She did it with the GH325. She did it when she tried to kill Ward. She did it with Mace all the time. Jemma had two PhDs by the time she was 17, when she was 7.5 she was learning Ingratiation - That’s second semester calculus, and knew how to make TNT… the point is she grew up being the smartest person in the room, she has every reason to have a hard time believing she DOESN’T always know what is the correct answer. Is it a character flaw? Yes. Is it one she’s always had and makes perfect sense given the life she has been implied to live? YES! It’s good characterization and it’s something I love about her!

If I remember this right, and I’m not sure I do because I was barely watching these episodes- They didn’t know which bases to look at and Fitz said he needed to be able to access and play with the data to use his Framework insight into Hydra to find out the likely cases? It was actually MAY’S idea to use him for that (So no I don’t think it was because Jemma was playing for Fitz off screen because May certainly wasn’t, Daisy just wasn’t taking any suggestion of letting Fitz out as okay, which makes sense but is also not good leadership on her part. She was fixated on finding Coulson and unwilling to let Fitz out of his cage). So that’s why Jemma felt he was needed. If I remember this right.

Part 2- Ruby wouldn’t have needed anyone to fix the machine because it was Fitz and Simmons who were breaking it down when she found them. It was already in working shape- the reason she needed Fitz and Simmons to fix it was because they broke it. I think, again fuzzy. Anyone saying they caused the problem by fixing it under duress is ignoring that had they done nothing she would have just had the machine right from the start…

I’m going to leave Ward and Jemma at the end because I’m going to ramble and you should be free to skip it.  But I had actually forgotten that they also broke the machine first and wouldn’t need fixing, maybe because for SOME REASON those episodes were never rewatched, never, I didn’t even make icons to rp them, I did them while watching to move quickly past it.  So yes, you are perfectly right.  And yes about May, of course. When I said Jemma was asking about freeing Fitz offscreen, I got that feeling when Jemma went to speak to Daisy and Daisy felt the need to remind her that Fitz is sick, so I thought that Jemma had also tried to plea his case. Which I could only try to guess because the writers decided to give us like 2 time-skips and no conversations between Jemma and Daisy beside that one. 

What you said about Jemma’s past and personality was perfect. PERFECT. And honestly I love her. Yes, it annoyed me to no end that once again Jemma and Daisy were fighting/not happy with each other because of something Fitz started, and I wish Jemma had been more delicate with Daisy who kinda had a point not wanting to see the guy who, for whatever reason, even if I understood what he was trying to do, strapped her to a bed and cut through her. Also because it’s not like he was getting any help, he’s the same guy with the same mental illness, the same violent second personality if that’s what it was, and there was no reason to believe that if a similar situation happened again he wouldn’t hurt anyone to save the world before even trying to talk about it.  But was it ooc of Jemma? NO. Was it just because it was Daisy? Hell no. I actually have a post or gifset that shows how, like you said, Jemma has disobeyed to literally any other person who was her superior too, or has been all snappy at them. If you count other shield, she tricked Bobbi and Mack too. With May when Coulson was gone she was snappy because she felt betrayed.  It’s just Jemma. And I do love it.

oh Ward and Jemma has some really big similarities that people tends to ignore because either if one is written as a villain suddenly it’s not appropriate anymore to analyze him on tumblr, or because she’s not as important as others, and because it’s weird put two like that together... blah blah but in reality, when he showed his real personality, the first half of s2, part of the second half of s2 (before I feel like the writers went: okay we already know where his plot has to go, so we’ll force it to go there whether it’s perfectly fitting or not because of reasons) but anyway, when we saw how he was... it felt like their defense mechanisms and their need to receive care fit together. I’ll explain but keep in mind I’m talking about a situation in which it’s Ward staying loyal to shield with his real personality, not about the real one, because I know sometimes fans appreciate also toxic relationships in fanfictions to explore them, but right now I’m focusing on how it would be if the circumstances were healthier (also because I already have canon for toxic situation)  

stupid example here and you can completely disagree (or also skim over): Jemma isn’t great with words in some cases, but the way she shows love and care is by being very present and listening, with her actions, and then also encourage best she can; she escapes from people who are asking her if she’s okay but when people give her a bit of space and ask in more chill ways, if she trusts them, she opens up a bit, and accepts a bit of help, like she did with Daisy in s2 deleted scene, with May in s3 when at the shooting range; she clearly appreciates actions that show her love the way she wants it, so not big gestures (aka ‘please stop trying to die for me, that fucks me up, just find other ways to save me and people? stop traumatizing me? I appreciate the effort but’) and all the soft touches and some praise. Ward in the vault, when at his most vulnerable, but also several other times, showed to be very willing to speak up about his motives, to accept care, but also to eat up words of praise and encouragement no matter the source (he even found impossible to not start caring for the team despite trying that hard) (fell for manipulation easily even when aware he was made that way because someone was a bit convincing when speaking) (we saw the smile he had when ‘Kara’ called him, no one was watching him and he was all pleased about the cactus he brought her, he was enjoying having a girlfriend) (he’s not a robot just because he has also twisted torture-ideas, as much as that makes people uncomfortable). He gave love through actions but also kept checking on people, let them have their space if needed, kept remarking how they are the ones who should be proud of themselves, they are doing good, we saw it with several examples but especially Kara. He also clearly likes strong women, spitfires, he admitted candidly that he tried to be the meat and potatoes guy but nope, he’s there for pancakes (and cute cacti at the window, and opening up to trusted people, for all the fandom talk about how he represents toxic masculinity because undercover Ward was so focused on working as a lone wolf, he doesn’t really seem to bother with any of it as soon as he’s not undercover)  Obviously I’m not saying they’d do great in canon but personality-wise, if things had gone differently and they’d have been themselves?  I can easily see Ward be like in s1 when Jemma showed signs of trauma, not make a big deal but bring up that Jemma doesn’t seem to be doing great while he’s already trying to make the situation more bearable for her. And telling her she’s doing great, praising her. He was happy to be constantly touched/have his shoulder massaged with Kara so he’d appreciate Jemma’s touches. Jemma being such a listener and giving him speeches like she does with Fitz? No way Ward would be unaffected or push her away, he’d take it all. They both tend to give people needed space but when people need them are there, encouraging, in Ward’s case not rejecting help or soft words ever, in Jemma’s case needing someone who makes her feel useful, yes, and when it’s the most trusted person there also asks her how she’s doing, tries to read her, tries to help her. Also enjoying how she acts basically as a leader, plans, gives orders, sasses people, Furiosa attitude, a confident woman who doesn’t need to be submissive or delicate or  ‘be put in her place’ with a phrasing that I just hate so much. (which hey, to be fair I’ll give this to Fitz, he never had problems with Jemma being confident in later seasons, he definitely projected in s2 and that was unfair, but when it comes to that he was digging it). I’m still not over that he was the only one who took time to properly praise her in FZZT. 

It’s painfully obvious in canon that Jemma tries to help Fitz, to encourage him all the time, and 9 times out of 10 Fitz doesn’t believe her or doesn’t want to believe her and pulls away to deal with things alone and not be a weight. Except not only he can’t deal wit it alone, in a relationship you can’t constantly worry to be a weight when your partner tries to help you and leave them out of it, you’ll just make them feel bad while you still need help. Jemma wants to make him feel better, but shouldn’t be trying with ten different speeches to get to him, put aside her entire life to finish the project ‘make Fitz feel good about this one thing’ and then start a new one for another thing that hurts him. She needs to deal with her problems too. So not only Fitz should be going to therapy but also learn to soak in what Jemma says and believes, let her in, so she doesn’t have to be there 24/7 too attempting to get through his walls (Ward, as messed up as the context was, wanted to believe Daisy’s words about him being good, wanted to believe any form of praise so badly). And Fitz has to then go make sure she’s okay too, and if she really doesn’t want to talk, at least work on the situation to help her silently deal with it (Ward helping her walk up the fallen tree, taking away the potentially infected object they found, out of her sight). 

Imagine a ship in which Jemma has to encourage the guy like once or twice and he already tries his best over it, feeling better because encouraged, and he keeps checking on her, keeps trying to help with her problems if she doesn’t want to talk until she’s ready, never rains down on her parade but keeps telling her she’s doing great, praising her for her strength, and she does little cute things for him he’s not used to because he never had it and clearly appreciates the hell out of them (Kara making him pancakes? Again the cactus which I’ll never get over), and they are constantly touching in the background because he gotta hold hands with people (s1, him letting himself forget the world temporary? Gotta hold hands wit Skye) and she gotta tease him (because Jemma is a lovely ass), but he has a good sense of humor and doesn’t take her seriously, instead teases her right back. (Because yes, Fitz does take her too seriously, or even when she doesn’t joke, he’s not amused. That’s not Iain’s amused face, when she says she proposed first? It’s not. Because he’s insecure, again, something he can work on in therapy, and it always feels like an attack to his persona when she teases)

Also let’s be real, real Ward in shield would have been equally sassy and making stupid jokes, and Jemma is totally there for sass and sassing him back as friends.  Plus, can you imagine Hand!Loyal Ward there in s2, man who went through that family of his, who was fake loyal to Garrett for a decade, who touched the berserker, hearing that Fitz convinced Skye to hide her powers from Jemma because Jemma is ‘different’ from a year ago and is talking about killing Raina if necessary (you know, the woman who just slaughtered her team with her new spikes and who might be carrying a deadly infection for all Jemma knows) and therefore might be dangerous for Skye? Can you imagine Ward believing it for a second, just because Jemma has a bit of ‘darkness’ in her when it comes to revenge and is scared of a potential alien infection, that she could hurt Skye? Judging Jemma for not being perfect? Believing that Jemma I jump out of planes Simmons ran away from SHIELD because Fitz was different and that she’d be capable of hurting them on purpose? Taking sides without even asking? Extremely loyal to people he cares for Grant Ward seeing that Jemma is the only one isolated and keeping her company and making her talk about stuff he doesn’t even understand with the excuse that he doesn’t get chemistry, and Jemma being like ‘I know what you are doing, again, but I’ll do it anyway’. 

Jemma needed someone who wouldn’t feel threatened by every joke and won’t reject her help, won’t refuse every attempt she makes at joking, will be easy to please unlike ‘jealous of himself’ Fitz or ‘you can’t finish my sentences but you also can’t look at me while I look for the right word’ Fitz that is impossible to please by another person because he needs therapy, who will make her feel useful but not need her constantly so she can be taken care of too. And Ward could have found someone so positive and encouraging (for real because she’s not desperate there), who makes him feel free to be goofy because hey, she laughs, it’s an accomplishment, but also understand that sometimes people get vengeful because they both do, who appreciates loyalty but never asks people to bend and be completely different for her, who would if anything push Ward to be healthier about it because she gets hyper protective and nobody can mistreat him, and they’d both have fun with healthy sass and probably spending 95949 dollars in hair products and jackets.

Ranty Rant time

@whistlingwindtree

I feel like the ppl who would complain abt Jemma space-napping the team, probably complain a lot about Fitz too? Idk just me but granted I follow like 2 aos blogs

oh, my bad for not being more clear, but of course I’m just generalizing, there are people who hate both and are harsh on both, people who hate Daisy and forgive everything they do, people who just hate one of them and forgive the others. But thing is, when it comes to big numbers of people, I was always very active in their tags and it was always so... loud, the difference between what Jemma was allowed to do compared to many, including Fitz.  And there have been posts of people who did say that they were mad about Fitz and Jemma in s5 but more about Jemma. Like, they could partly forgive Fitz for what he did to Daisy in s5 but not Jemma. Jemma is a worse friend. 

If you look at season 3, when Jemma asked Fitz to let hydra kill her instead of opening the portal, Fitz put the whole world in danger by helping Hydra. While I do understand the attitude of ‘nope, can’t let you die, we’ll have to deal with the consequences and if I can I’ll close the portal behind me anyway’. the majority of people, by far, found it romantic. Unless they didn’t like the ship. But aside from die hard fs fans, everyone agreed what Jemma did in s5 was fucked up.  People found heartbreaking Iain’s performance when he saw Ward in vault D, understood why he did what he did, taking his oxygen away. Talked about Fitz and Ward as a ship and as friends and heartbreaking relationship, and it was pretty much unanimous. When Jemma tried to kill him after warning him she would, and even asked him to kill her, there were a big amount of posts about how she’s this horrible judgy hypocrite who deserved to suffer. (Daisy was also judged very severely over similar things. Coulson, not so much unless by Ward fans. So there is definitely a good amount of misogyny involved)  

And to say that Jemma doesn’t pay for her mistake is just... it’s only true if you let the fact that she acts ‘normal’ make you forget the actual incredibly violent consequences of everything she does. Not to mention the overblame from the fandom. Did you know in s4, when Fitz tried to keep talking about Aida to Jemma, who was already clearly afraid/uncomfortable and wanted even her severed head covered by a sheet, and Jemma asked him to stop because he was starting to talk about basically options that would still make It a good idea, he got quiet, then explained it was to protect her, yeah, and then started to work on Aida in secret and lied tot Jemma about it, the fans said it was Jemma’s fault, of course if Fitz was keeping secrets and if Fitz generally won’t talk about his feelings because she shuts him down? And when she does to ask him to talk to her it’s too late or ‘well she already told him to stop talking about Aida’. 

So like yes, definitely, people who don’t ship FS can hate both, there are people who will always extra-hate Fitz over her too. But at least when it comes to me, when I scroll down or read conversations, I always end up finding more unfair posts about Jemma, blatantly ones too where they acknowledge Fitz did maybe a couple of things wrong but Jemma is the one who really fucks up and a bad friend. No attempts to understand what she goes through if the show doesn’t spell it out for them. Like they are also harder on Daisy than they are on male characters. But Jemma is also less important than Daisy, has no powers or kick ass moves (writers being weird about it because come on, 6+ years in the field suffering over people getting hurt for you and you don’t train to be self-sufficient?) and is in a relationship with a fan-fave that people also shipped with others, especially Ward, so every season there is always a bit less compassion for her, a lot more vitriol than for Fitz, and things getting blown out of proportion (Jemma being ‘genocidal’ in s2 and never having redeemed being an example of it)

see, that's the bit I always just see as platonic from her: her and Ward in s1 lol not that I'd fight you on it, come on, I ship her with an au Ward who has the same personality (I ship it SO MUCH), it's just that I see her as going from ready to fight him to more friendly in s1, but I didn't see her be all hffhgjfdg like she is with Mike, so that sudden mention right in s3 really sit wrong with me. But also due to context aka the writers. Far from me to have anything against Jemma ogling muscular men, come on, I'm always in favor of women owning their attraction in fiction and real life lol but... frankly I think at that point I was already side-eyeing the writers about everything concerning Jemma.  I also find funny the idea that Ward who is so... well, handsome and cocky would not get a serious reaction from the woman who was basically groping Mike lol but again, it’s not a big deal in itself, different interpretation (and ugh btw if Ward had been a triple agent for Hand and had revealed his real personality in s2 I’d still be shipping them to this day. They are both confident, both vengeful, both wanted love but at the same time are independent, both get shit on by the writers and retconned, both have their own musical intro while getting ready for the day in s2 lol, Ward in s1 consistently looked after Jemma and complimented her (and hell, let’s be real, villain!Ward in s3 after all the things the writers did to him was clearly approving of Jemma’s real personality too, the Furiosa comment and look on his face, which is good, no need for Jemma to hide any side), Jemma is apparently capable of being extra compassionate and encouraging (and let’s be real, Ward soaked attention like a sponge, he didn’t reject it), but I am TOTALLY GETTING LOST INTO THIS COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY SHIP COMMENT )

when in reality what I wanted to say is OH MY GOD THAT’S RIGHT, YOU BROUGHT UP THAT JEMMA HAD TO FREE HIM BECAUSE SHE DISAGREED WITH DAISY. People always forget that?! I myself am mad at Jemma for how she was written after, when she was fighting with Daisy and looked offended that Daisy felt betrayed. Which is still IC. Jemma is absolutely the kind of person who will do what she believes to be needed, yeah, and then be like: I did the right thing and I can say and do what I want. It’s both a flaw and something I enjoy watching, makes her more real than being all perfect and apologetic, but it still drove me crazy because the show was ignoring what Fitz did to Daisy and nobody was really on Daisy’s side, Mack was giving speeches about the good in the Doctor. But on the other hand Daisy was so focused on rescuing Coulson, that she was ignoring other important things to do. The team was in pieces or she’d have had to order to other agents to go check out that hydra place too, but she didn’t, and Jemma was right to go and make sure nobody would get their hands on the gravitonium machine. So it’s a bit complicated, Jemma had a wrong attitude and if she hadn’t been trying to apparently play Fitz’s case offscreen maybe Daisy would have listened to her concerns, Daisy should have sent someone to cover all their bases and not just looked for Coulson, Jemma shouldn’t have freed Fitz the way she did (also not sure he was 100% needed there) and they kinda turned it into a ‘eh honeymoon time’ even though there were fifty issues to talk about, Jemma’s mental health was going to health with the acid and the comment about ‘science is sound’, BUT Jemma didn’t free Fitz for fun and to run away and elope, she had to get him out because they truly believed, and were right, that something could be used against them in that building. And if they hadn’t been there, Ruby would have collected the machine, have had people fix it, and turned herself or someone else into what Talbot then became. 

Ranty Rant time

I just need to say this because- well it’s bugging my brain and once I say it hopefully I’ll feel better. I am so sick of certain Daisy fans acting like the problem with Fitzs*mmons isn’t the horrible co-dependancy or how Jemma is written to repress all her emotions to coddle Fitz but rather that Jemma does this for Fitz and not for Daisy. Like somehow Jemma to be a true friend needs to ignore the fact that situations she is in are emotional and traumatic for her because they were really traumatic for Daisy.

This mindset has the horror of The Devil Complex only effecting Daisy and Fitz. Ergo Jemma is siding with Fitz by going to talk to him and not going to comfort Daisy… never mind that Jemma was there being held at gun-point as a hostage of her husband’s psychotic disorder to force both Fitz and Daisy to finish the job. As if this wasn’t traumatic at all for her to beg and plead and be left powerless to do anything to stop one person she loves from hurting another… I mean… Jemma couldn’t possibly be on say Jemma’s side? She couldn’t possibly choose to talk to Fitz because she needs to know where they are in order to process what happened to her. Jemma needs to comfort Daisy because she is in such a good place to be comforting people from… right? Daisy has no one because Coulson is gone! like May, Mack, and Elena aren’t you know… right there and weren’t forced to watch.

No no no, Jemma needs to ignore her pain and focus on Daisy because she had it worse! Just like that scene in season 4 when Jemma was such a bitch and told Daisy she didn’t want Daisy to just call on her when she needed patching up and that they were either friends or they weren’t- because Daisy was traumatized so she was allowed to use and discard her friends when she didn’t need them to save her life… right? That’s how being in pain works? Right? Jemma was such a bitch laying down ground rules about not being used! Ugh! Horrible! How dare?!

I know the show treats Jemma like she’s an object but- I’d really appreciate it if we could all recognize that’s bullshit and not have me see people arguing about whose object she should be instead.

too good not to reblog. and to be honest, I skipped almost all ff about Jemma in a ship when I still read them because in each of them it felt like Jemma was written as the submissive, immediately ready to do everything for the other person, weak, inexperienced other half of a ship, insert there to please and encourage her love. Some people do want Jemma to be basically the hope and cutie that lives for their fave, including aos writers. While of course ignoring all the trauma Jemma went through (and like 90% of her canon personality) 

but yeah every single time someone has lived something traumatic it’s always considered less bad for Jemma and therefore Jemma has to keep herself together and take care of them, nevermind that trauma doesn’t work that way and that she’s always been written with a personality that has as nearly the only consistent trait extreme guilt, and is absolutely one of the worst types of personality in general when it comes to dealing with problems. The pod was more traumatic for Fitz, Porto Rico for Daisy, Ward’s betrayal for everybody else, Hive became the inhumans’ plot, everything regarding season 4 is worse for Fitz, everything in s5 is worse for Fitz and Daisy. Coulson’s death is worse for the others. Season 2 was bad for Fitz and Fitz only in the first half. Nevermind that Jemma has a smile slapped on her face from the second her alarm hit and it’s shown as routine, that level of ‘must act like normal’ that starts when her ALARM HITS, is alone in hydra while everybody else can choose to have support or not daily because they are together at the base, has to do bad things with a smile, we see her panicking in the bathroom before she makes herself smile again, and she’s back out all Happy. Which is a lot like she’s not. And then she comes home and is welcome by people who know everything about her thanks to the others badmouthing her, because that’s what it was, and is immediately re-punished for not taking care of Fitz, spent the rest of the season attempting to smile but her life didn’t depend on it so she failed several times, she was just there, damned if she did and damned if she didn’t at every turn, with Bobbi encouraging her to speak to Fitz, Mack having judged her at first sight, Coulson asking her to lie to the team about what she was working on, May mostly gone, Fitz being actively angry, Daisy only sort of there at first and convinced to fear her for a bit later, and Hunter being the only one who left her alone. Okay. But she has to be there for everybody now. (The writers still got it kinda right in s2 because at least we saw her struggle, being unable to pull the super happy brave face, not sure of what to say to help people. You know. A normal person. And then you and I have different opinions of when it started, but to me it’s from the very beginning of s3 that she was already showed in the extra optimistic and encouraging wagon and never left it. And in the love interest wagon. Suddenly attracted by Ward, by Will, by Fitz, later on possibly jealous of either an android or of the monster that brainwashed her boyfriend to make him be with her because that’s just... realistic, I guess, that Jemma Simmons would consider the possibility of Fitz being basically attracted by a toaster or that she’d be jealous of the person who brainwashed him to make him date her. Her storylines are all about romance or romance-adiacent. Her conversations are all about romance or romance adiacent or have been had with her love interest if about something else.)

and in 4x04, Daisy and Jemma interacting? if you looked at it without fans’ comments, you’d see two women who are both hurting but when one friend pushes a limit, the other points out it’s not okay (also because they love each other, so hey, if your friend is being self-destructive you are not supposed to say ‘well, you are sad, so that’s fine’) and it ends up with both of them cooperating, the ‘traumatized’ one (as if Jemma isn’t) feeling a bit better and returning to the rest of the team temporarily,  but also them protecting each other

and then you get to the fans who are like HOW DARE JEMMA BE RUDE TO DAISY - AND NOT WANT TO RISK GOING TO PRISON IMMEDIATELY FOR HER LOSING ALL OPPORTUNITIES SHE HAS TO HELP PEOPLE THROUGH SHIELD  and of course we get defensive and start bringing up Daisy’s flaws too, and we just get mad at character, at the show, at the fans, because they had to make one into a villain for doing something that the other one has done too before - Daisy’s anger when Jemma left shield in season 2? “she abandoned all of us”? 

let’s not forget people expecting Jemma, who what, a couple of weeks earlier had to kill LMD Fitz, brutally, and was shot by brainwashed Fitz, to get herself shot by the robot and attack Fitz who was holding a scalpel? and we don’t know if she comforted Daisy or not because the writers did truly only focus on Fitz’s take on it, not on Jemma NOR Daisy. We don’t know what happened next. We do know that even if it wasn’t spelled out Jemma was losing her mind and it was ignored too. We know she said drastic measures might be necessary - since it’s the only thing that closed the rift - and then was so shocked and threw up. We do know she made him pay like you said by almost drinking acid on purpose, stealing his lines too, not the behavior of a sane person there either. It was all a big mess and Jemma needed someone to support her and tell her she needed to take time and not try to heal Fitz herself because she can’t, instead she got two different people putting on her the duty of standing by Fitz while she was still unable to see him. Because that’s her job.  Therapist, cheerleader, life coach Jemma Simmons, there only for Fitz but also blamed for not being equally present and constantly ready to help literally everybody else. Too bad if no human can do that and the show is ridiculously unrealistic in making her so functional, because you can’t repress that level of traumas, that are so violent and constant and painful, and act completely normal with no breakdowns nor tics nor issues whatsoever. But eh. Who cares. She’s the girl. She’s the love interest therefore all heart, she should be able to just be like this with everyone always and forever, also always be partial and fair and supportive.

Ranty Rant time

I just need to say this because- well it’s bugging my brain and once I say it hopefully I’ll feel better. I am so sick of certain Daisy fans acting like the problem with Fitzs*mmons isn’t the horrible co-dependancy or how Jemma is written to repress all her emotions to coddle Fitz but rather that Jemma does this for Fitz and not for Daisy. Like somehow Jemma to be a true friend needs to ignore the fact that situations she is in are emotional and traumatic for her because they were really traumatic for Daisy.

This mindset has the horror of The Devil Complex only effecting Daisy and Fitz. Ergo Jemma is siding with Fitz by going to talk to him and not going to comfort Daisy… never mind that Jemma was there being held at gun-point as a hostage of her husband’s psychotic disorder to force both Fitz and Daisy to finish the job. As if this wasn’t traumatic at all for her to beg and plead and be left powerless to do anything to stop one person she loves from hurting another… I mean… Jemma couldn’t possibly be on say Jemma’s side? She couldn’t possibly choose to talk to Fitz because she needs to know where they are in order to process what happened to her. Jemma needs to comfort Daisy because she is in such a good place to be comforting people from… right? Daisy has no one because Coulson is gone! like May, Mack, and Elena aren’t you know… right there and weren’t forced to watch.

No no no, Jemma needs to ignore her pain and focus on Daisy because she had it worse! Just like that scene in season 4 when Jemma was such a bitch and told Daisy she didn’t want Daisy to just call on her when she needed patching up and that they were either friends or they weren’t- because Daisy was traumatized so she was allowed to use and discard her friends when she didn’t need them to save her life… right? That’s how being in pain works? Right? Jemma was such a bitch laying down ground rules about not being used! Ugh! Horrible! How dare?!

I know the show treats Jemma like she’s an object but- I’d really appreciate it if we could all recognize that’s bullshit and not have me see people arguing about whose object she should be instead.