what is ramcoa? sorry if i sound dumb

it's fine, don't worry. ramcoa stands for "ritual abuse mind control organised abuse" , it's a form of extreme abuse and it's a really intense subject overall. i wouldn't recommended looking into it if you are easily triggered or if you're not in the right headspace /lh /gen but if you think you can handle it, here are some sources on ramcoa 01 , 02 - they might not be the best but they're all i could find right now, if anyone else has any sources or information they'd like to add then they're free to do so! - and also a lot of trigger warnings, like i said, do not look it up if you think you're not prepared.

might consider making a blog that argues against endos points, but also feel like it would get harassed and torn to pieces. (Btw I mean like I get pro endos "points" and try disprove them and correct their misinformation, not sure if there's already a blog for that tho, let us know if there is! - also i know i could probably just do that on this blog but idk, this blogs more for emotion filled venting and stuff, so i guess the other one would be more objective?? or as objective as i can make it- i guess?? i dunno, lmk your opinions)

This is more asking for advice than a vent but it's a bit of a vent too. It's really long and I'm so sorry but there's important context and we are also physically incapable of not being long winded. No TW i can think of beyond vague mentions of trauma

TL;DR: A friend claims to be an endogenic system and came out to our friend group first, leaving me to clean up the misinformation mess while navigating the minefield that is them being the more liked friend, while avoiding sounding like a fake claiming asshole. Help

About a year ago we decided to come out to our close friend circle. When we came out to one of our friends, they came out to us back. As endogenic. We were really excited for those few seconds before they revealed they were endogenic, and we didn't say anything then because we genuinely had no idea what to say. The fawning kicked in and for several months we were really trying to be accepting of them being endogenic, but we really can't. After further conversations "one" on "one" with them we've discovered they have a deep level of misinformation that I am not sure how to deal with. I can't just cut them off because we're in a group chat together with several of our other friends who I am almost certain like them more than us.

I can almost guarantee that they have infested the rest of the group with misinformation about a disorder I spent half a year having regular breakdowns about having and what that means for us and our childhood. Realizing what we went through was traumatic, that our mother was genuinely insidiously abusive instead of just kind of mean and crazy, was genuinely one of, if not the hardest, thing we've been through to date. Realizing the memory issues were more than just ADHD and silly brainTM, that the gender fluid stuff was alters, all of it was excruciating. But we made it through the other side. We cut contact with our abusive mother, we have an extremely loving and patient and kind partner that held us while we cried about syscovery and hold us now when we have breakdowns about various other things. We had already done a lot of research on DID before even considered the possibility we could have it for a project in high school, and later when we started really needing to figure out wtf was wrong it was that basis of research that lead us to do further research on it to discover that yes, we have this, and yes, that means we were deeply betrayed by the people who we're supposed to protect us and keep us safe and loved.

This friend who came out has referred to alters as being "dead" or "killed", and they split pretty much the entire cast of Hazbin Hotel immediately after watching it, as well as a different media that I'm not going to say cause it's mildly niche and while I know they don't follow this blog I don't want to risk it. I don't want to fake claim them over this, as many CDD systems have very low split tolerances, are fictive heavy, etc., but on top of them identifying as endogenic and clearly not having done any research beyond TikTok and Tumblr, I just don't know. They have however, mentioned things like amnesia and trauma holders, which indicates to me they are in fact traumatized, likely even more than we are due to the low split tolerance (if they truly are a system), and a traumagenic system, but the endogenic community sunk their grimy predatory claws in and made it impossible for them to come to terms with it.

We really desperately want to correct the misinformation I know has been spread among the group, but more than that I need the friend to accept that endogenic plurality doesn't exist, and that if they are a system, it's traumagenic. I do however, know how difficult it was for us to come to terms with our own trauma, and do t really want to subject another person to that. If we had discovered endogenic plurality before coming to terms with our disorder we likely would have buried our heads in the sand as well, which would have inevitably made it so much worse when we did inevitably have to face our trauma.

I am not super worried about destabilizing them as they have stated they're in therapy with a therapist that recognizes their plurality (though a therapist that accepts endogenic systems as real is just as bad to me as a therapist who doesnt see DID as real at all imo), though that is still a concern. We aren't super close with this friend ourselves, but several people in the group are. I'm mainly worried about losing them or them thinking I'm "fake claiming" them when I got to correct the misinformation.

Anyway, the point of this ask that has taken away too long to get to, is how does one go about both informing a friend (gently and kindly they are genuinely a nice person) that they have trauma, that their system was formed by trauma, and that you really can't be a system without it? How does one go about informing the rest of their friends about the reality of this disorder when you fumbled the first coming out and didn't really make it explicit enough you have DID and not just blorbos in your head cause it's fun? What the hell do I do how do I fix this? This has genuinely been causing a lot of stress and I can't say anything on our blog because they asked for our Tumblr and we gave it when we shouldn't have and now we can't talk about this on there.

Any help or advice would be amazing, whether that's for informing the friend, or the group as a whole. Thank you so much in advance, and thank you for having this space as well. -🦝🧥

i think maybe you should start a conversation with them, try to explain to them first that DID/OSDD is a trauma disorder (if necessary you could try link a few sources or maybe even recommend they look into the sources themselves about it) and once you explain to them you can hopefully explain to the group together that your friend was misinformed and maybe link them some sources too. if you're struggling to find sources here are a few : 01 , 02 , 03 , 04 . they might not be the best but i hope they help and i hope everything goes well. it's not easy to tell a friend they're wrong about something, but sometimes its important to do so, both for you and for them.

hi, singlet here. Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but I was looking for information as to why endos are bad, since I’ve seen both pro and anti endo takes and I’m currently on the fence about it. I didn’t want to take a side w/o being educated.

endos are bad for many reasons, but some of the main reason has to do with the misinoformation they spread: DID/OSDD is a trauma disorder and they claim to have it without trauma, which just isn't possible. (sources on this - 01, 02, 03.) they also like to claim that they create their alters on their own accord, which isn't true, alters form as a coping mechanism from stress and or trauma / they form whenever your brain thinks you need them. (sources on this - 01.) along with that many endos claim to "system hop", as in they claim to send their alters into other systems of different bodies, which obviously isn't possible. (this term is also stolen from RAMCOA survivors and originally mean jumping between side systems within your own system, not going into a different body.) this isn't even touching on the racism, transphobia and ableism within the endo community. but yeah, i appreciate you trying to educate yourself and i hope that this post helps you a little, anyone else who has sources or points to make are free to make additions in the replies or reblogs. <- this is not an invitation for pro-endos or endos, just asking for other anti-endos to add their points and opinions.

im outta the loop (and Im not - knox) about endos bc guess who has like never fronted? meeee ediva!!!

front kinda crowded- (well yeah -anya) so this gonna be chaotic lmao.

endos stop being weird to traumatized people challenge GO!

endos stop invading our spaces challenge GO!

endos stop saying theyre the victim challenge GO!

endos and pro endos stop acting like endos are an oppressed minority challenge GO!

I hate endos and thats from what the sys has told me (-anya) like augh stop faking assholes--

endos stop faking challenge GO!

endos stop dragging traumagens/real systems into their cult-like hivemind challenge GO!

(all super impossible because we all know endos are fake-ass asshats)

[] ediva, anya, knox, onyx is back there somewhere

^^^ endos suck , stop pretending to be systems

thank you!! quinny threw a fit earlier because someone elses little called our partner amma. quinny felt so bad lol "im otay wiv sharin. but my amma. no your amma" it was adorable

-🌺

awh! that sounds adorable! and no problem!

TW: Mention of a suicide attempt

Endos/proendos are a little ridiculous tbh. We've seen a lot of moots talking about that one proendo who comes and harasses anti-endos because their friend attempted like, I'm sorry they did but how would you feel if we came and said "proendos like you almost made us attempt and made a friend of ours try" (/nay (not at you)).

We'd be monsters!

🕷️🌌

yeah,, they constantly cry wolf and try claim anti endos are horrible and that they're perfect angels who do no wrong, but if an anti endo did such a thing they'd all be screaming and preparing their fire wood to burn the "monster"

one of the big kids got paint on whalium :(

-quinnt

awh, that sucks! i'm sorry and i hope you manage to get the paint off whalium!

what do endos not understand about DNI? i tag my posts with "endos dni" and THEY REBLOG TO "FIGHT MISINFORMATION!" but reblog with obvious misinformation. then pro endos comment on my posts and say "youre generalizing endos!" when i didn't generalize all endos into anything. when i say endos and pro endos dni i mean that. they want us to respect their boundaries but dont respect ours. endos really are invading safe spaces then deny it.

yeah. endos really can't respect peoples DNIs, then they complain when anti endos have to make safe spaces to get away from them, as if they aren't actively trying to force us to accept them and their misinformation. they can't respect boundaries and then expect us to like them, or accept them. like, fuck off.

abt discussion "is functional multiplicity a way of being non-disordered system?" if no one minds, am gonna add my opinion too.

functional multiplicity isn't non-disordered way of being system. it's like remission / recovery.

when you have some chronic condition, you can manage it and feel fine. you can show fewer symptoms or don't show them at all. but you still have this condition.

if you are on meds for arthritis and don't have active inflammation now, you still have arthritis. you may still have some impairment of damage that was already made. it may flare up. your meds may stop working or start working worse. and your symptoms will return.

also, if nothing of above happens, your life, needs, and experience are not the same as life, needs, and experience of people without arthritis. you need your meds to feel good. you need to go to appointments. you need to be careful with some things. you have different risks and so on.

and also. you have experience. you know how it feels. you know what it is. your life was changed by having arthritis, and you don't lose this experience when your symptoms leave.

so same with osddid. if you reached functional multiplicity. you still have some symptoms (having alters is a symptom). you still may split more alters, get more amnesia, get more other dissociative symptoms. and you still have experience. very personal-forming experience, don't know how to word it better. your brain doesn't work like singlets brains. your alters (in functional multiplicity case) aren't like singlets parts of personality. you can't close this door and unteach your brain to dissociate, split, create amnesia barriers. you also can't erase trauma from your brain development. (early life trauma makes HUGE influence on brain development, and even not only brain but the rest of the body too).

osddid is a super complex experience. it's early trauma. it's very specific experience of not being singlet, of not having singlets personality. it's alters (if we talk abt systems). it's amnesia (not always). it's dissociative symptoms. it's cptsd. and more and more and more.

it's super complex, super influencing. endos often see osddid like "cool dudes in your head and nothing more", and it's offensive exactly because of these reasons. because osddid is WAY more. and functional multiplicity is not "cool dudes in your head and nothing more" too. it's sad, but there's no such thing as "cool dudes in your head and nothing more".

that's why people don't lose osddid diagnosis when reach functional multiplicity.

sorry for being long, boring, and complicated.

nod, nod. That's what I thought, I'm glad to have others agree. Even once you've healed and reached functional multiplicity you still have alters, which are a symptom, and probably a few other symptoms too, which means you have the disorder. Even with final fusion, you're still disordered because your brain can always split again, since splitting is a coping mechanism that cannot be unlearned

yeah, that's basically what I was trying to say. Anon really confused me, but like, even when you're healed it still counts as a disorder ((this includes final fusion, since you can still split afterwards fusing))

absolutely anti-endo bc trauma is required, but some of you forget about healthy/functional multiplicity and the fact that it proves there are non-disordered systems.

they're not non disordered.. they still have the disorder they're just better at managing it. (At least that's what I've heard, since DID/OSDD is a life long disorder after it has been developed). Yes they've healed, but they still have the disorder, they just no longer have all the symptoms / their symptoms are more managed. This is like saying someone who has gone through final fusion isn't a system, I guess they technically aren't anymore, but they still have DID/OSDD and still have the ability to split at any point if their brain feels necessary..

Also when people refer to "non disordered systems" they're talking about endos who claim to not have DID/OSDD yet somehow are still a system, not healed systems. I really don't understand the point you are trying to make here

Like correct me if I'm wrong, but surely even if you've healed you still have the disorder???

Hello ^^ may I ask for advice. Me and my system recently made an anti endo vent and educative blog. (For people to vent and learn about endos/nontraumagenics).

It's inspired by you and some others. And I wanna know if you'd have any advice for me.

not much advice other than don't listen to any endos who try come there, don't waste your time on them, just delete their asks and block them if possible! ((Unless they make a point you want to educate them or others on, otherwise just ignore them, they're not worth your time)) And remember you're always allowed to take breaks, don't feel bad for putting yourself first!

absolutely anti-endo bc trauma is required, but some of you forget about healthy/functional multiplicity and the fact that it proves there are non-disordered systems.

they're not non disordered.. they still have the disorder they're just better at managing it. (At least that's what I've heard, since DID/OSDD is a life long disorder after it has been developed). Yes they've healed, but they still have the disorder, they just no longer have all the symptoms / their symptoms are more managed. This is like saying someone who has gone through final fusion isn't a system, I guess they technically aren't anymore, but they still have DID/OSDD and still have the ability to split at any point if their brain feels necessary..

Also when people refer to "non disordered systems" they're talking about endos who claim to not have DID/OSDD yet somehow are still a system, not healed systems. I really don't understand the point you are trying to make here

Like correct me if I'm wrong, but surely even if you've healed you still have the disorder???

yall are so nice

-🌺anon

thanks!! :D we try to be nice when we can lol! We think you're nice too! And quinny!

im bad at responding to people so imma just :D

thank you, sorry lol quinnys adorabls, and gou used sharks pronouns right :D

-🌺anon

:D no problem!! And don't worry about it, quinny is adorable! ^_^ ((and I'm glad I used her pronouns right!))

endos really make my feel my teeth. does that make sense?

anywho, i didnt realize quinny was sending things here too lol. shes one of our littles!! kid doesnt like telling others his pronouns so imma do it for her because i adopted him.

he/she/shark/kid

hes scared to say it bc mixed pronouns and neos n the whole "youre too young to have pronouns!!" but he likes people knowing.

mine are they/she

-🌺anon <3

yeah I get what you mean, and that's cool!! Quinny is very nice, I enjoy talking with him! ^_^ we support all neopronouns and mixed pronouns, no matter how young someone is! So there's no need to be afraid! I'm glad you told me shark's pronouns! (I hope I used that right! If not please correct me! We use neopronouns too but sometimes we struggle a bit with them!)

Also thank you for telling me your pronouns too! It is nice to know!

And since we're sharing pronouns we'll share our collective pronouns too! We use he/they/it/xe collectively! Though we do prefer people ask for our individual ones!!

I’m so tempted to just delete blogs that I run so I can get away from endos and stop every project I’m working on, but I don’t want to do that to people that need those spaces but the constant reblogs from people that are endos and want to start being shits to me is getting to be a little overwhelming

I want it to stop but I know it won’t

hey, I get the struggle, sometimes it's just too much and you can't really do anything other than to block them or to delete the blog, it's fair to be overwhelmed. If needed you can always take a break, people need their spaces yes, but you, being the one providing that space are an important too. As the creator and the person who runs them you are important and so you should take good care of yourself! Put yourself first, people will understand ^_^