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thecoffeelorian · 8 hours

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Okay, and hello there! *tentative waves*

Firstly, thank you for your detailed response to mine, as I've been a little afraid that fandom discussions are no longer allowed in the 21st century...but it's good to see this hasn't happened yet, so here I go.

Second, if I can expound on what I said before without rambling too much or making zero sense, I'd love to discuss this...if I end up failing miserably in this, though, you can go ahead and ignore me after this paragraph, and I'll just delete this conversation later today. 😅 Anyways, before I get too distracted...

"They have never, ever treated Crosshair as expendable."

If this is so, I'd like to know what made them all so enraged that they would start giving away his belongings to someone else in the beginning (the commlink being a great example) and pretty much seeming to forget all about him way before the midpoint of Season 1, complete with barely bringing him up for more than ten seconds, and even then, not until his weapons kit just happens to get knocked over...then, after hinting in the course of a few more limited interactions that Crosshair was the one thing keeping the rest of the title cast from an uninterrupted life of odd jobs from Cid and their Mantell Mix servings afterward, even to the point of being ready to open fire with something other than the stun setting after he saves Omega from drowning, thus very nearly confirming that underlying vibe I received from those first 16 episodes and that the first assassination of an Imperial officer was about to take place...did they do a confusing about-face ten seconds afterward on the platform, and start trying to get him to leave with them when...they still wanted him out of their lives ten seconds before the platform scene started, and were fully ready to use their blasters to make it happen.

This has been my main problem from the beginning, and since the show itself has just tried to gloss this part over with what looks like a few convenient sermons to the audience rather than have someone like Omega call the others back to that sequence in a conversation, and/or ask them why they had their blasters pointed at Crosshair right before she was pulled out of the water...yeah, I guess getting another fan's take on it would be great, because it sure left me in the dust out of confusion and frustration. Anyways, moving on.

"Remember that Hunter and the rest of his brothers have no idea when Crosshair's inhibitor chip was removed."

Yes, I do remember this...but even after three whole years of this show going on in real time and it taking place over the course of one year, nobody in the title cast or the audience still knows anything, other than a change in Crosshair's behavior (to quote the interviews, which seem to fill in the gaps for TBB even though they should be filled in during the actual episodes)...and the strange addition of him still getting headaches and having something poking out of the side of his head when, technically, neither should have been there after 1x12, after the procedure was taken care of. Instead, though, there's this image to talk about:

In other words, a weird gesture and animation style from somebody who supposedly has nothing in their heads, but anyways, moving on.

"And, even with Crosshair still being cagey, Hunter accepts the little Crosshair is willing to tell him and they move on."

Here's another difference of opinion I'm going to add to, if I may--Hunter's attempt at comfort was done in the context of, even if Crosshair was apologizing at that point, Mayday still being part of the enemy forces and therefore possibly becoming a taboo subject, since culturally, the Clone Troopers in general (to my knowledge) aren't supposed to have anything but zero sympathy for the other side, as proven by Echo's objections to helping a Separatist official evacuate his planet ahead of an Imperial takeover.

In less wordy terms, I think Hunter's response was more along the lines of "I know you're upset, but don't let your ties to this enemy soldier cloud your later judgment, especially if we end up fighting them in the end" rather than really accepting anything that Crosshair was trying to tell him.

I remember that Saw Gerrera himself foreshadowed a Clone Civil War in the pilot, too, so that just might be a future plot point in "Tales of the Empire" if all the clone guys don't suddenly disappear in the TBB finale of finales. They certainly had a wide open window to get this fight started in season 2, because all the animosity between the Batch and the regular Troopers/Crosshair was there...yet for some undisclosed reason, they never acted on their own obvious feelings. Nevertheless, my theories don't always come true if at all, though, so moving on again here.

"The only other time Crosshair is the recipient of a disapproving glare is when Omega is captured again and Hunter learns that Crosshair had been withholding critical information from them. And once Crosshair explains, the disapproval is gone."

...And this is going to be the third point I hope to make, because if the deal is that nobody allows anything bad to happen to Omega, even if it's supposedly her master plan to set a trap for the Empire...it's therefore my understanding that having physical reactions over returning to the scene of one's trauma is suggested to be forbidden, not just because of the death glare shown below, but also because I fear that Crosshair's about to be seen as little else than dead weight, and therefore a total liability, against getting Omega back from her latest kidnapping plot in a long line of kidnapping plots.

In this context, I myself see no change in Hunter, other than a mixture of "How dare you bring up your issues now" and "Aw, but I WANTED to punish you and now I can't" sort of expression...but let's agree to disagree.

"And any down time they had was never tied to the fact that Crosshair wasn't there."

Actually, since this is point #5 for me...it was, and is, my understanding that the Batch could not only do quite a lot of fun things now that Crosshair wasn't looking over their shoulder, but that all those games and snacks take up a huge focus of the first two seasons. For example, there was a huge emphasis on the Mantell Mix, especially in the episode "Battle Scars"...but where is it now that all the side quests/imaginary missions are gone, and the actual real work will be done at the last minute long after his supposed return...?

Also, it's my understanding that they could do a lot of board games without Crosshair being present, especially in the episodes "Common Ground" and "War Mantle". For example, when in any part of Seasons 2 or 3 did we see Wrecker or Hunter doing this...?

And third, 3 of the 6-member title cast got to attend the Riot Races during Crosshair's absence, but the moment he returned to Pabu, the only real activity shown was...meditation practice, and not any of the things that this crew has done in the past.

In other words, zero snacks, zero board games, and zero Riot Races have occurred after "The Return" episode...almost like he took those experiences away from everyone else in the beginning; they regained everything they were denied in the first two seasons without him; then, finally, when he barely gets out of a deadly situation with his life, once again the fun and games are gone and the narrative is now being silently bitter about the whole thing, but refuses to make a formal complaint even though it has the complete freedom to do so...or at least, that's the negative vibe I'm starting to get after watching the first season and observing the next two through transcripts and screencaps.

Anyways, there still is one more episode to go, don't get me wrong, and a part of me still hopes I'll be surprised somehow...but did any of my points make sense here? I'm asking this because I know I didn't do a very good job in public speaking class back in the day, and I have a feeling I'd be a lousy debater as well, so...if I don't end up getting any answers later on this week, I'll probably figure out that it's because of something I typed incorrectly, and I'll most likely end up deleting this if that's the case. ^^;

However, if anything I've written just now does make some sense after all, or if I did well on some points and lousy on others, I'll either go back and fix them or just plain wait to see your response. So again, thank you for your consideration, and I hope you have a great day no matter what. :)

It took 2 people to fully convince Crosshair to do a 180 on the Empire - but neither of those people were Bad Batch members.

They couldn't be. What would a squad of defective clones who had been disobeying orders since day 1 know about loyalty to an institution determined to establish order for the good of the galaxy? What would they know about finding purpose in being "good soldiers"?

Now, I DO think the seeds of Crosshair's eventual defection were planted by his brothers. Hunter pointing out that "Blind allegiance makes you a pawn" and then telling Crosshair "All you'll ever be to them is a number" are statements that are proven later to be true. But it takes Cody and Mayday to drive the lessons home.

Cody and Mayday share several characteristics that place them in unique positions to influence Crosshair:

Both are regs who accepted and befriended Crosshair - Cody says he specifically asked for Crosshair for the mission, and Mayday is upfront and friendly to Crosshair right from the start. (Contrast this to the other regs getting up to move tables when Crosshair sits to eat, or the other clone troopers who walk past Crosshair to get onto the shuttle without even sparing him a glance.)

Both are commanders. (I believe Crosshair ultimately respects authority for the most part: even when he was arguing with and challenging Hunter in "Aftermath," he still deferred to Hunter's orders until his inhibitor chip was intensified and he was then promoted to commander.)

Both are loyal soldiers who have served the Empire well - again, these regs are still commanders even under the new government. And we all know how important loyalty to the Empire is to Crosshair at this point.

Both save Crosshair's life during their missions.

In short, both are regs, but they are still soldiers Crosshair can quickly identify with and trust.

I think it's key that Crosshair encountered Cody before Mayday, though. And despite their similarities, both soldiers drive home different points.

CODY

Cody is one of the few regs we know Crosshair already respected - and still respects, given that Crosshair almost smiles when he recognizes him.

(Some proof in case it isn't apparent: Crosshair goes from frowny face...

...to relaxed almost-happy-if-you-squint-just-right face)

Anyway, while Cody does drop some hints early on that he has doubts about the Empire, he is willing to carry out the mission to rescue "Governor" Grotton, showing he will follow orders to a certain extent. However, he shows more restraint than Crosshair might have: he doesn't attack the civilians despite their obvious mistrust of the soldiers, he comes to an understanding with Tawni Ames, he's NOT willing to follow an order to execute her, and he is clearly dismayed and disappointed by her death.

And so, at the end of a "successful" mission, Cody more plainly reveals the depth of his dissatisfaction with following orders against one's own moral scruples:

Hunter had said "Blind allegiance makes you a pawn." And Cody, unwilling to blindly and unquestioningly be a pawn - or act like a battle droid - any longer, goes AWOL.

But that lesson alone isn't enough to make Crosshair turn on the Empire. Instead, he needs Mayday to give him the final push.

MAYDAY

First, Mayday indicates how appalled he is by the idea of anyone leaving their own behind - which we know is a sore spot for Crosshair. But most importantly, Mayday has demonstrated since he was first introduced that he strongly believes in soldiers being loyal to and looking out for each other (which is far different than just being loyal to the Empire).

Second, Mayday unknowingly challenges Crosshair's belief that serving the Empire provides meaningful purpose. (Remember that one of Crosshair's main arguments to his brothers about joining the Empire was so they could "find purpose again.")

Then, he unwittingly goes for the jugular and rips apart the motto Crosshair had adopted.

And then, in case Crosshair has any lingering doubts about the answer to Mayday's rhetorical question, Nolan decidedly answers the question for him.

Hunter had said "All you'll ever be to them is a number," and he is proven right in the most heartbreaking way.

Crosshair had accused his brothers of not being loyal to him; unfortunately, now he sees what true disloyalty looks like. And for Crosshair - severe and unyielding - realizing that he has misplaced his loyalty by giving it to an entity that mocks him and casts him aside for doing so... this is the final straw.

Thankfully, Crosshair has now rediscovered the people who are worthy of his loyalty.

#the bad batch #tbb: series analysis #tbb: coffee analyzes things #or...tbb: if crosshair's always the problem...why keep him around?

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