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coopsgirl · 2 years

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It just keeps getting worse for the Rings of Power. Here are some cast member/producer statements regarding the show.

She (the chick playing Disa) explained, “It’s their time and it’s so important and I hope many people will see this fantasy and be able to relate to it. This is a reflection of the world we live in, there are many and we are different and we will embrace and discover, and peel back, and learn, and educate, and be educated.”

This show should not reflect our world; it should reflect Tolkien's world. People also have not had a problem relating to it which is why it's one of the best selling fiction works in history. Is this show going to be preachy ("educate and be educated")? People generally don't like being preached at/talked down to and I can't see this going over well.

These cast statements echo what Executive Producer of the series Lindsey Weber told Vanity Fair back in February, “It felt only natural to us that an adaptation of Tolkien’s work would reflect what the world actually looks like.”

It seems to me that the only natural thing to do was to reflect Tolkien's world if you are doing a Tolkien adaptation. Make no mistake, this will not be an adaptation. They will not be telling his story with his characters (there was no warrior Galadriel, Miriel was never queen or queen regent, and they have more original characters listed so far than actual Tolkien characters and that alone is a huge red flag). It will be a veneer of Tolkien so thin that if you barely scratch it, it will disappear.

This is going to be very expensive fan fiction written/produced by people who don't actually seem to be fans. I love fan fic. I write it and read it. I like AUs, modern AUs, smut fics, and other things that vary quite a bit from Tolkien's stories and characters. It's cool to have fun with it and sometimes do crazy things. But, when someone buys the rights to actually use the real thing, I expect a proper adaptation. That doesn't mean you can't take some liberties and make some changes so that the material works better for film/tv, but it should not be so different as to be unrecognizable in character/theme/storyline.

If you watch this as a generic fantasy show, you might enjoy it. I'm not impressed by anything so far. The costumes/props mostly look cheap and like they came from Party City (seriously some of the helmets/armor/crowns look plastic), the elves just look like regular people with pointy ears, and the "not hobbits" (yes, Harfoots are hobbits!) look like they rolled around in dirt/trash and then decided to go on about their day.

One last thing, do you know what the show is supposed to be about based on any of the trailers that have been released? It's called The Rings of Power yet there has been no mention of rings or of their creation. Obviously as Tolkien fans, we have a general idea of what they might cover but you can't tell that from the promotional material alone. If I didn't know anything about Tolkien, I would think this is a world that had been at war, the war is now over and some people think it will be a time of peace and others think more conflict is on the horizon. Also a meteor lands somewhere. I can't work up any excitement for a such a bland, generic plot.

#rings of power #amazon is bullshit #short haired elves suck #harfoots are hobbits #where's celeborn?#where's celebrian?#where's cirdan?#where's sauron/annatar?#why is celebrimbor so old he's eligible for AARP?

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amethysttribble · 11 months

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“He resembles Princess Luthien greatly,” Oropher said and Celeborn stiffened on instinct.

He side-eyed his kinsman, bracing for the impact of whatever came next. Oropher never made idle comments. Oropher epecially never made idle comments to him, not without the direct intention of starting a fight.

Celeborn hoped this wasn’t intended to be a fight. He’d promised Gil-galad, and more importantly, Galadriel, that they wouldn’t so much as bicker tonight. They were supposed to stand next to one another in solidarity and pretend like the High Council of Lindon wasn’t fracturing at the seams and about to fall apart, the direct consequence of Oropher’s words and desires and pride.

But right now, Oropher at least wasn’t speaking of their king- ‘I don’t remember choosing him, do you think you speak for all of us?’- but of the one standing next to him on the ballroom dais. Of perhaps the one person whose name and presence between them was just as, if not more, incendiary than Gil-galad’s. Poor Elrond.

“He does,” Celeborn replied mildly, biting his tongue before he could ask why Oropher was bringing this up now. It wasn’t like he’d never seen the young lord- no longer a boy, not a child by any race’s measure, though it was hard to remember- before. It wasn’t like they all didn’t meet and talk often enough.

“More than either Elwing or Earendil. Or her.”

And, ah. There it was.

“True enough,” Celeborn said, and he wasn’t sure if Oropher wanted him to agree or not, but he wasn’t going to lie.

Elrond took greatly after dear Aunt Luthien. In some lights it was slightly nerve wracking.

Oropher crossed his arms rather than reply immediately, his face closed off. Not stony or hard like at council meetings, but his thoughts and feelings were far away from any observer. He actually looked like the lord they pretended he was, rather than the rogue marchwarden he actually was; regal. When Oropher looked like that he reminded Celeborn of Galathil.

He looked away.

“I think, in the details though, they are more present. His cheeks, for example-“

“And it’s funny,” Oropher said, and he even huffed a very sad laugh, trying and failing to make it sound like he actually was joking. The two of them hadn’t shared a joke since… since.

Celeborn certainly wasn’t laughing. He closed his eyes and swallowed his annoyance at being interrupted. He knew Oropher did it on purpose, perpetually the preteen at his brother’s table delighting in ribald and shock.

And there were his words to consider.

“El-Elwing didn’t really take after Luthien very much.”

She didn’t. She’d taken after the person whose presence hung between Oropher and Celeborn like the unlight of Ungoliant, sucking the air out of the room. Which was a horrible legacy for someone they both loved so much, but grief did strange things to already strained relationships.

“I keep asking myself if there’s something about Earendil I’m forgetting.” Oropher was rambling now, highly uncharacteristic. Celeborn drew in a long breath and re-centered himself in anticipation for wherever this was headed. “Has Galadriel said anything about a resemblance to anyone in her family?”

Celeborn raised an eyebrow, but Oropher wouldn’t look at him. His eyes were locked somewhere past Elrond’s head. Hopefully he hadn’t noticed.

But Oropher acknowledging Galadriel’s family, Earendil’s family willingly?

Oropher had always seemed to operate under some purposeful mental dissonance, wherein he forced himself to think of Galadriel as some Telerin princess who had mystically made her way across the sea alone and by sheer force of will. And Earendil? He might as well have been prince to some lost, entirely independent Elven kingdom- not Sindar, not Laiquendi, certainly not Noldor- for how Oropher acted, for the most part.

He’d slipped in an argument about Gil-galad once when he shouted that, ‘Earendil was the only Noldo I would have ever had for my king and he’s gone!’

“She’s never made any special mention of a resemblance,” Celeborn said carefully. He didn’t want to call attention to the… mannerisms picked up from certain half-cousins that Galadriel had noticed. That wasn’t a resemblance, after all. “Why?”

“No particular reason,” he said, though it was becoming clear that there was a very particular reason, “just, many remark that his brother took after Earendil and I never saw it, so I-“

“I always thought Elros more so resembled Dior.”

Oropher’s head snapped over to finally look at him. He nodded, slow and low, not even slightly upset at being interrupted.

“Yes, I thought the same,” he said. “Funny that. Identical twins, but it’s in the- the bearing. Who they take after. Luthien and Dior.”

Celeborn fought off the shudder that threatened the shake him, to make him crack and crumble under the weight of the thing between him and Oropher that would never go away. He actually looked Oropher in the eye, and in that faraway gaze, this time he saw the same weakness.

“How much have you had to drink this evening?” Celeborn asked.

Oropher shrugged casually, with one shoulder, and that was plenty of answer. Surely he couldn’t be as drunk as either the time Celeborn found his and his friends deep into Galathil’s liquor cabinet or the night they drank themselves into a state in Sirion after… after. Still.

“That’s very unbecoming.”

“You see it though, right?” Oropher said, voice still uncharacteristically even, but when they met eyes…

He was such a weepy drunk.

“Elwing and Earendil’s boys, they carry themselves well,” he said, voice bitter as could be. “Beautiful, kind, clever, magnetic, the both of them. Princess Luthien’s wildness is in Elrond, and Dior’s wonder at the world is in Elros. They stand so tall. And, yes, you’re right, Elwing and Earendil are there in the margins, but there’s also- also them. And so much space is taken up, our- Lothig is eaten whole.”

Hearing Nimloth’s childhood nickname come out of Oropher’s mouth was like being stabbed. There was no more air. Just like that, Celeborn was drowning.

“You should be proud,” he hissed back, trying to keep his head above water. “That is a fine legacy to resemble, our princess, our king. We loved them as well. At least, I did.”

Oropher wasn’t listening. He never did.

“Do you think any of these people-“ he swept his arm out to gesture at the entire room, the entirety of Lindon’s court; Noldor, Sindar, Nandor, Men and Dwarves in the margins, and one peredhil. “-care that they killed her?”

“Don’t put that on him,” Celeborn snapped quietly, “he doesn’t owe you grief for someone he never knew-“

“I don’t care what Elrond feels, I can’t even look at him,” Oropher spat out, every word sounding pained, and there was torment in his whisper quiet voice.

That whisper, more than anything, tipped Celeborn off to the fact that this conversation wasn’t just one of their drunken spats about trading blame.

“I would have raised that boy like we raised his mother and your brother raised me,” Oropher said, “but that didn’t happen, and I can’t look at him. He looks like Luthien. His brother looks like Dior. And that’s a wonderful thing for everyone else in this room, isn’t it? That’s hope. The beautiful king taken too soon reborn and the Nightengale who stole her happy ending walking among us, and that’s such a lovely end to this tale for them. But what about for us, Celeborn?”

For Celeborn? Celeborn was shaking with the effort it was taking to keep his breathing even. Galadriel touched the edge of his fea to ask if he was okay. He gently pushed her away.

Oropher was right about one thing, this was about their family; about Doriath and Menegorth and being the last two members of Thingol’s inner court on this shore.

Eru Iluvatar, how did it end up being them? Just a pair of hot-headed youths with the weight an entire dead kingdom on their shoulders.

“Gondolin and Nargothrond are gone too,” he replied, the words dull even to his ears. “Hithlum and Dorthonion, half of Ossiriand, and even Himlad and Thargelion. It’s about building something new for all of us. Hope is not a bad thing.”

“It’s different for us.”

Yes. It was. Because Doriath and Sirion need not have fallen like that, and the monsters who took their homes and their loved ones from them weren’t even defeated. They faded, sad and pathetic and allowed to escape by everyone and everything but their prize, and there was no catharsis in that.

And in this kingdom they spoke Sindarin, but they took a Noldorin king who ruled through Noldorin traditions- with a few of Cirdan’s lessons thrown in there- in a city built by Noldorin hands. After his death, Thingol had lost his war of cultural influence. Badly.

“No one here remembers her but us, Celeborn,” Oropher urged. “They remember our heroes and our most tantalizing tragedies, but they don’t remember her. They don’t see her. She’s just one more dead wife and mother, if they get that far, but not a cousin, a niece-“

“Enough, Oropher.”

“-an astrologist, a troublemaker, a queen, a girl who was so scared of being outshined-“

“Oropher!” Celeborn snapped, more harshly than he meant to. It made Oropher stop long enough that he could put a hand on his shoulder, though.

“Oropher, you’re weeping.”

He blinked harshly, then brought up a hand to wipe at his cheek. When he pulled away, Celeborn could see how wet the palm was. Oropher glared at the remnant of his tears like they’d personally offended him.

He muttered, half to himself, “Surely you can’t keep living like this. Ignoring what was done to us because it’s awkward and inconvenient for the new age they’re building.”

Could he? Celeborn didn’t know. He was trying. Galadriel was trying; she had as many wounds as him she was trying to swallow for the sake of something new and bright. But it was hard. Lindon made Celeborn feel old, somehow. But with Oropher he was always just a boy again, strutting around Menegroth, trying to make his place, being too loud and too proud and too sure of himself.

Perhaps that was part of why they couldn’t stop fighting. Always just boys when together. And those boys, they had a few things in common.

Doriath, Galathil, and Nimloth were in Oropher. And when Oropher looked at him, those same things were in Celeborn. There was no place for those things in this new world.

Because Doriath, Galathil, and Nimloth were forever gone on this shore. Oropher needed to realize that. Not matter how much it fucking hurt.

“Go to bed, Oropher,” Celeborn told him softly. “You’re drunk and emotional. You’ll embarrass your son. He’s one of those young people looking for something new. Something hopeful.”

And when they looked back towards Gil-galad’s dais and the youths surrounding him, there was Thranduil, charming smile on his face, making Elrond toss his head back and laugh. If anyone took after Nimloth, it was him; her mother and Oropher’s had been identical twins.

Celeborn’s hand was suddenly colder and hanging in the air. He turned back to the kid who showed up one day and took so much of his older brother’s attention and who he’d never forgiven for that small slight. Oropher was composed and looking like Galathil once more.

“I hate that you’re right,” he whispered. “And he probably needs me to be better than this. But I can’t be better here.”

And he left.

The next week, Oropher would formally announce his intention to travel east and settle there, alongside anyone who would join him. Celeborn, to the surprise of every other council member but Galadriel, raised no objection. Very briefly, the thought crossed his mind to join Oropher.

But that desire faded quickly. The envy didn’t, though, not for many, many years.

Not until the day he planted a little silver tree in Lothlorien.

#this didn’t go where I thought it would but *shrugs*#Oropher and Celeborn grieve for Doriath and for Nimloth #celeborn #Oropher #tolkien #the silmarillion #I need a 2nd age tag #fanfic #tribble post

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undercat-overdog · 11 months

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So I think that what we're told of Mrs Curufin implies that she's the opposite of meek and yielding and certainly isn't someone who Curufin barrels over.

Per footnote 7 in Of Dwarves and Men (PoME), Celebrimbor is a man "of wholly different temper" than Curufin, because "his mother had refused to take part in the rebellion of Feanor". (Aka, he inherited her temperament.)

First of all, refusing to go along with what 90% of the people around you are doing isn't something that's easy to do and if anything it implies strength of character. But more importantly, Celebrimbor shares his mother's temperament; she shares his. And Celebrimbor isn't meek or yielding or easily barrelled over. He's a character who is proud and ambitious and is willing to tell people no, including under tremendous duress, a character with more strength of will than Curufin. A character who desires to surpass Feanor himself in skill and fame. A character who welcomed Satan Jr, taught and learned from him, and at the end defied him unto death - Celebrimbor had his own rebellion against the Valar. A character whose ambition wasn't the piddly one of engineering a coup d'etat in a single city but to make the entire world a paradise equal to heaven.

If Celebrimbor's mother is anything like her son, and Jirt says her son is like her, she's one impressive woman.

She married down.

#meta #curufin #mrs curufin #celebrimbor #kinda in response to feanorian spouse discourse #(to which i will say that making them all fanatical kinslayers who go with the feanorian flow is still defining them by their husbands)#more importantly the same footnote that talks about mrs curufin #also says that celebrimbor later became great friends with galadriel and celeborn #(every version of C is friends with celeborn. personally i like to think that means they fucked but gen bros is good too)#(aka where's the fic with celeborn and celebrimbor hanging out and getting high together)

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heyclickadee · 4 months

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So, my family is rewatching Rings of Power, and since I’m the one in the family that read The Silmarillion (like a masochist), I’m the one who keeps getting asked all the questions.

#‘did this happen?’ well broadly speaking yes but Tolkien never fleshed this part of middle-earth’s history out in much detail #but I know exactly where they got the idea for whatever it is most of the time #‘is Galadriel’s husband really dead’ of course not #‘did Sauron ever go by the name Halbrand?’ well not really but also how much time do you have because this is going to take some explaining #‘is that Gandalf?’ almost definitely but they’re doing the blue wizard thing with him by taking him to Rhun #also I think they’re making him the basis for the hobbit’s ’man in the moon’ song so I’m honestly okay with it #‘is the Queen lady’s nightmare significant’ Yes three times over but how am I supposed to say anything about it #without giving away what’s probably a season finale #‘what’s with the mithril?’ Hell if I know I’m as confused as you are about that #actually the Galadriel’s husband one was funny #because of course Celeborn shows up in the movies #but my mom wasn’t sure that was actually her husband #or some random blorbo #or a second husband #which then opened up the whole conversation #to how the elves are painfully monogamous even when their spouse dies #because they way they die is weird and also #they all still have generational and firsthand trauma from the fallout of that one elf guy who did get remarried #rings of power spoilers

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nenyabusiness · 1 year

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TOLKIEN TLDR: Where the fuck is Celeborn?

We all have a vague idea of who Celeborn is. He’s tall, he’s blond, and he’s married to Galadriel. He does, at some point, become the Lord of Lórien, and he dislikes Dwarves. I’d say that those facts are undeniably canon. This installment is not going to focus on what we know about Celeborn, though. This time, we’re heading straight for the question marks.

In The Rings of Power, no one knows where Celeborn is. The only information we get is that he went to war and never came back. I mean, we all know that he was conveniently removed from the show to give room for Galadriel and Halbrand’s there-was-only-one-raft-shenanigans, but the funny thing about it is that Tolkien didn’t always seem to know where Celeborn was either.

In The Unfinished Tales, Christopher Tolkien himself states: “There is no part of the history of Middle-earth more full of problems than the story of Galadriel and Celeborn,” and, well, he’s not wrong.

So, going age by age according to Unfinished Tales: Where the fuck is Celeborn?

Years of the Trees:

- Possibly in Lórien with the Nandor (one of the clans of Elves that never reached Valinor)

- Possibly in Doriath with the Sindar (another clan that never reached Valinor)

- Possibly in Alqualondë (chief city of the Falmari Elves; a clan that actually did reach Valinor) with Galadriel

First Age:

- Possibly in Lórien, meeting Galadriel for the first time

- Possibly in Doriath, meeting Galadriel for the first time

- Possibly in the haven of Círdan with Galadriel

Early Second Age:

- Possibly in Lórien with Galadriel (highly unlikely at this point)

- Possibly in Lindon with Galadriel

- Possibly in Doriath with Galadriel

Brief palate cleanser: We do know for sure that he did at some point journey with Galadriel to Eriador, and we know that they established Eregion around SA 700 (750, according to outside sources). Alright, let’s continue with the mess.

Second Age 1400 (kinda depending on whether or not Celebrimbor revolted against him and Galadriel):

- Possibly in Eregion (if revolt: without Galadriel)

- Possibly in Lórien (with or without Galadriel; there are two versions of this because hey, why not make things even messier)

Second Age 1700:

- Possibly in Lórien

- Possibly in Rivendell

Second Age 1800:

- Almost certainly in Rivendell

Late Second Age:

- Probably in Belfalas

The rest is pretty clear. Some journeys in Rhovanion, staying for a while in Rivendell after Celebrían and Elrond’s wedding (do not get me started on the inconsistencies regarding Celeborn and Galadriel’s kid/kids), and then we reach the plot of The Lord of the Rings. In the Fourth Age, Celeborn sails into the West.

So… yeah. When people ask where Celeborn is in The Rings of Power, “who the fuck knows” is a pretty legit answer.

(A/N: All of these statements have been taken straight from Unfinished Tales Chapter IV: The History of Galadriel and Celeborn. Some of them are considered far more canon than others, but they all existed at some point. I’m sure there are even more statements that could be added to this list, but these are the ones mentioned in this particular chapter.)

#tolkien #TOLKIEN TLDR #lore #unfinished tales #celeborn #THIS WAS SUCH A MESS #the rings of power #i can't say i'm a fan of the canon divergence but yeah who the fuck knows where celeborn is

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