i still get so sad when i think abt mcu steve. whyd they do that to him

In an aus where they are human, what would the ship Henry x Thomas dynamic be like?

(For reference, I previously talked about Henry/Tom as a ship in this ask about a variant of my Slime Rancher AU.)

I feel like, this would depend on a lot of things, honestly! First and foremost, like... what version of Henry and Tom this is. Presumably mostly canon? AUs change enough about characters to make relationship dynamics work very differently between different versions!

Putting the rest of my thoughts under a readmore, since I rambled!

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Going just based on just the canon information, Henry/Tom as a concept is pretty tough to make work. Both of them have canon relationships, so a ship of them would require fiddling with those dynamics - be it polyamory, marriages of convenience, an AU where those canon ships don’t happen, etc. It’s possible, but requires some extra work.

Timing also messes a lot with canon stuff too - Henry left the studio really early, while Tom showed up much later. Which limits their potential for interactions prior to the Cycle, unless you’re fiddling with the timeline or having them meet out of the studio somehow. 

AU where they meet at a coffee shop before Henry quits the studio, bond while Henry grouches about the issues with his job, and Tom persuades him to leave - and then refuses the JDS job because he’s heard bad things? Hmm.

But yeah, hard to pin down dynamic based on any interaction potential in canon without messing with stuff a bunch.

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Then alternatively, if I just consider the general personalities they have - disclaimer, my knowledge of canon is rusty and a lot of my thoughts are headcanon stuff. But yeah, just general vibes:

Overall, Henry feels a lot more passive to me, while Tom is more confrontational. Henry goes along with a lot of the nonsense in the Cycle without much outward reaction (though I headcanon this is partially dissociation too). He also still seems to be pretty cordial with Joey even after he left the studio, and was willing enough to go back to the studio on Joey’s invitation. If he’s frustrated by something, he’s less likely to show it.

Tom, meanwhile, will let you know if he has a problem with you. He’s not hiding much about how he feels, and is more than willing to complain about things or yell at people. Of course, I don’t think that’s a fully bad trait - it’s good to be able to speak up about issues too, and I think that’s a skill Henry is missing, or struggles to show, anyway.

Interesting to note is the ways that they act opposite to these traits, too. Henry is passive and unlikely to complain, but when the situation got too much for him at JDS, he quit. In contrast, for all of Tom’s complaining about Joey and the studio and the pipes, he didn’t really do a lot about it. He complained, and then he got back to work.

And I think... technically, this leads into a thing I think they have in common, the reasons why they do that? Henry stood up for himself and left the studio - because it was affecting his time with Linda. I feel like he finds it hard to stand up for things when it’s just affecting himself, but if it starts affecting others, he wants to make things better.

Then on the other side, I headcanon that part of why Tom didn’t just quit when everything was bad was for other people - specifically Allison, since her work was with JDS too, and quitting his job would probably affect her as well. Said caring for Allison also kinda transfers over into canon stuff too.

(Though I also consider that Tom didn’t leave because of himself, too - while the job was awful, it was easier to put up with it than to start over from scratch trying to find a new job. This job was terrible but it was something he knew how to put up with, and he didn’t want to throw his life into disarray when he knew he could just put up with things for now.)

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Anyway uH I got distracted thinking about personalities, haha.

Thoughts on ship: Honestly could go either way. Their willingness to protect or look after other people could work well for a ship, with Tom helping to stand up for Henry and help him to speak up more, and then Henry providing a nice sense of chill and helping Tom to pick his battles to keep the peace. They could be a nice sense of calm for each other, a retreat from other more stressful things.

Or alternatively, it could go uh, not so great! Henry never sticking up for himself could end up annoying Tom, and if Tom got too aggressive about it, Henry might just distance himself more - putting up with it without really doing much about it. Both being so willing to put up with things they don’t like could end up working against them, too - if they were in a relationship, and it wasn’t quite working, but neither wanting to make the step to split up even though it’d probably be healthier for them in the long run.

Who knows! You could spin it many ways. Lots of options here. A whole lot of it will depend on how they interact, what things about each other they see, what situations they’re in. Heck, you could make a 80 chapter fic where they get together, the relationship falls apart due to their issues, and then they reconcile, communicate better and start dating again in a healthier fashion. Or you could have these same dynamics as a platonic ship! Ships are fun like that.

Anyway uhh, I hope that this giant essay answered your question... somehow.

Will you write anything related to Bloodline? In the Metas, I mean. Because while I think that Kylo's fight with the dark voice in his head (aka Snoke) has apparently been longer than initially expected, I think the fact that he learnt about his connection to DV rather violently if Leia's ominous reaction tells us smtg, with learning that his family had been keeping smtg that important from him... Must have been hard. Any thoughts? (I love your meta)

Sooo many thoughts @luciemiddleford, but I’m almost positive my response isn’tgoing to answer your question in any kind of satisfactory manner whatsoever.

My reaction to Bloodline, while mostly positive, is a bit ofmixed bag, and that’s due entirely to inconsistencies about The Family™ betweenthis book and the information we were given in TFA. Aaaaand how Bloodlinemesses with the timeline we more-or-less had previously established (more onthis later) and how this new set just feels wrongto me. In order for me to get across just how I feel in regards to him findingout about Vader in this manner, its necessary for me to discuss why I don’tfeel confident whatsoever about what little info we did get about the Organa-Solo Family Dynamic. Like, at all. I don’ttrust relying on the glimpses we got in Bloodline, including Ben finding outabout Vader in such a jarring manner.

I haven’t gone through the tags on here so idk if otherpeople have broken down some of the inconsistencies and issues with continuitythat Bloodline through into the mix, or if anyone has noticed them at all. Justto start off: I loved the novel. Fucking loved it. One of the best Star Warsnovels ever, in my opinion. I’m a sucker for politics/undercover/conspiracystories, so this was right up my ally. Basically everything related to Leia,the New Republic, the First Order already working within the Senate, anythingthat set up the political outlook for TFA had me overjoyed and I found itincredibly well-grounded in that regard.

It was just those few throwaway lines (I read the wholething twice and I think there are only like six or seven references) about Ben+ Luke that threw everything off. I was expecting this book to give us piecesof the puzzle to put together about HOW exactly everything went down, or atleast glimpses into how the Organa-Solo family life was pre-academy training.Instead it just made me scratch my head and question the canon-ocity of ClaudiaGray’s work. And there’s honestly good reason to question it??? Gray clearlystated that she had not seen/read the script for TFA prior to writing the book,she was clearly Surprised when she saw TFA and it didn’t outright contradictwhat she wrote in regards to the Fam, and beyond that any information shewould’ve been given about The Family™ in order to make Leia’s relationship tothem seem believable would’ve been pretty cut-and-dry (as in: they have a kid,here’s his name, he and Luke are busy doing ~something~). Rereading it justseems like they told her to name drop Ben and Luke a couple times just to makeit clear that she keeps them in her thoughts. They didn’t give her anymore towork with because obviously they’re saving that stuff for TLJ and didn’t wantto spoil it. When Gray was going through the details with Pablo Hidalgo andRian Johnson on what to center the novel around, the only information shereceived for how to make this a setup for TFA was concentrated solely aroundThe New Republic government, the Vader Scandal, hints of the First Order, andthe forming of the Resistance. Just another reason I don’t feel confident withany of the information that isn’t strictly political in nature. The familyaspect just feels like a fill-in-the-blank game (minus what we got with Han,that was all very believable).

Two of the prime problems I have, inconsistency/generalproblem-wise, are in regard to Ben’s age and in how he found out about Dear OldGranddad.

For starters, it was established pre-Bloodline that Ben leftfor training when he was 10 (still canon). It was also the prevailing andaccepted idea pre-Bloodline that Ben fell to Snoke and did-whatever-deed-he-didat the Jedi Academy when he was 15 (I believe I even saw a source at one pointthat confirmed everything went down at 15 but idk where it would be hiding,someone link me if you find one). Makes sense. HOWEVER. According to Gray’sbook, Ben is still with Luke at the age of 23 and hasn’t gone all Dark Sideyet. Here’s the inconsistency: according to the TFA script, when Kylo takes offhis helmet, “Han is JOLTED, seeing the face of his son for the first time as aman”. So Han hasn’t seen his kid since early adolescence, probably. That iscanon. Unfortunate and heartbreaking, but canon nonetheless. I imagine, butcan’t firmly say, it’s been the same amount of time for when Leia last saw Benas well.

This Bloodline continuity hogwash actually creates a majorproblem for Han and Leia’s characters. If we go pre-Bloodline assumption thathe turned at 15, then it means that, at most, Han/Leia went 5 years withoutseeing their son, in person or holo-vid (that assumption is pushing it btw, theystill could have visited him in early teens). We don’t know how busy they were,don’t know where Luke’s Academy was, don’t know if there were any rulesattempting to limit disturbances in the kids’ training. The only thing we canglean is that the Academy, wherever it was, was fairly isolated and hard toreach. So 5 years (again, pushing it) sucks, but is understandable under the rightconditions. BUT. If we adhere to Gray’s timeline, then it means that they went13 years without seeing their kid. It goes from sucky-but-understandable tofucked up in a big way. It is canonically established that Han hasn’t seen hisboy since he was an adolescent, but 23 is an adult. If Han hadn’t seen his kidin that many years, and was able to with him presumably just chilling with Lukeand not off doing dark deeds, then it makes Han and Leia look bad for notputting in any effort to see Ben (or Luke for that matter #rude). It reflectsbadly on Leia and Han. It was already canonically established that Han and Leiaweren’t there enough to guide him—this makes the setup for his upbringingunfortunate, heartbreaking, sorta-kinda understandable. But going 13 yearswithout seeing your kid when you have the means is not understandable andmakes one a shitty parent. This is why I don’t like it one bit. At the previouslyaccepted 15-year age mark, everything flowed together naturally and made sense.At the “new” 23-year age mark it just makes everyone seem like an asshole. It’sjust pushes things a little too far to be believable imo.

In addition to this, Leia states, “I never should’ve senthim away. That’s when I lost him”. This strongly implies that what happenedwith Ben happened relatively quickly (and that there was probably minimalcontact), as in FIVE years, not THIRTEEN. Thirteen years is a long time to sitback, think, and pinpoint exactly when you lost your son without actively doinganything about it. Which is not in Leia’s character. And Han says, “There wasnothing we could’ve done”, which also implies to me a relatively SHORT periodof time between when they actually had personal contact with him and when Bensplit for the Baddies™. Someone who has had repeated personal contact, evenfavorable/positive with their child (messages or otherwise) over a period ofthirteen years after training began would not be making such absolutiststatements. Again, five years makes a certain amount of sense, thirteen has mewtf-ing. Also??? Both Leia and Han’s statements sound like ones to familiar topeople who have had years upon years to come to term with things (as in, 15years ago, not a measly 6).

Onto my other major problem: how Ben found out about Vader.I have a really, reallllllllyyyyyy hard time imagining that Ben found out abouthim out of the blue. I can see where Gray is coming from, but actually thinkingabout it in terms of how Kylo is portrayed in TFA makes no sense with theBloodline timeline. Just for starters: as a descendant of the Chosen One, Benis ridiculously Force sensitive?? So despite the fact that Leia and Han keptthe Grandpa Bomb from him (I imagine Luke would’ve wanted to tell him the truthbut had to adhere to Ben’s actual parents), I don’t see how he would’ve gonehis entire upbringing not picking up on, at the very least, that they werekeeping something huge from. When Han says that there was too much Vader inhim, it implies there were many signs from him as a kid that made his parentsuncomfortable/nervous. For a Force-sensitive who can sense emotions and readthoughts, he would’ve at least picked up on that kind of ~vibe~ they sometimesgot around him and been curious about it. I even have a hard time believingthat, after a while, he might not have “pried” a little bit by trying to readthe thoughts of his “weaker” parent (Han) without detection. He wouldn’t havemeant anything inherently malicious about it, just a curiosity/desire foranswers for why some things made his parents ~share a look~ if you get mydrift. Kids pick up on things. Not to mention he might’ve picked up a vibe fromLuke himself. While I don’t doubt that Luke would’ve agreed to let Leia/Hanreveal things on their own terms, I still think it would’ve been difficult forhim to maintain the façade of “Vader was the enemy and I hate him to this day,glad I killed the bloke”. Ben would’ve been raised on stories of his family’saccomplishments, especially of Luke’s vanquishing of two Sith Lords, so I thinkhe would notice when they either tried to avoid discussing such things or thatmaybe his uncles retelling just didn’t feel right.

The other problem with the “he found out about Vader out ofthe blue” is the fact that that doesn’t organically coincide with hisdedication to Vaders cause that we see in TFA. For Ben to have gone 23 yearsclueless ala Bloodline, his unnerving conviction to finish what Vader startedfeels out of place. Six years is a little short to go from clueless to the “Iwill do everything in my power to finish what you started” idolization we havegoing on. FIFTEEN years on the other hand…well, you get my point. There’s alsothe issue of Snoke. Snoke was in this kids head from the beginning, so I can’timagine that he wouldn’t have used Vader’s identity as an additional tool toget Ben to mistrust his family as early as was feasible/useful. I already madethis whole post about how Vader’s identity/”ghost” was one of the integraltools Snoke was using to secure Ben’s loyalty, so there’s that as well.

While Bloodline is “technically” canon, it is still dubiouscanon at best, prone to changes and mistakes. There are only three “officialofficial” sources of canon (more or less indisputable), and those are the films,the scripts, and the official novelizations of said films. Any othernovels/comics/etc that doesn’t accompany one of the actual movies is canon only until/unless details within it areproven false or clash with Official Canon. And there’s enough weird informationin Bloodline regarding everyone’s favorite Family™, combined with the fact thatGray never even saw the script for TFA, that has me questioning just howin-universe I can take it.

It’s not that I have a problem reorienting myself intobelieving that he made his dark turn as an adult (I do actually), it is just afar less organic and natural string of events compared to him turning at 15. Samewith how he found out about Vader. Bloodline-timeline requires a suspension ofdisbelief. And it affects the narratives of other people around him as well, ina mostly negative way.

Maybe it’s just me that this really bothers. But theinformation Claudia Gray gave us (again, dubious canon at best) just fills liketrying to fit a square peg in a round hole and it throws me off thinking aboutit. I’m just gonna wait for TLJ to confirm/deny anything regarding the Family.