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sisterdivinium · 1 year

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I suppose I don't much focus on avatrice because I judge that what the show has given me is sufficient.

This isn't to say I think there is no need for the story to go on or that we had a satisfying "definitive" ending (not at all!), only that the treatment Ava and Beatrice have received in canon was so well-done (and I trust it would continue to be so in future episodes) that my imagination doesn't find much interest in coming up with alternative scenarios or weaving theories of what might be in store for them or filling in any blanks.

This is entirely personal and subjective, of course, and I'm not deriding anyone who does any of that. I am content with what I have received and might yet be given if all works out, so I prefer to enjoy and contribute to fandom in other ways.

The reason for writing this is not to point fingers at others from my high horse, merely to state that even if I do not interact with this particular aspect of fandom, I do love avatrice, as it is.

It might also be a good time to say that, even though I very much write fanfiction (which I technically shouldn't be doing, after officially "retiring" in 2017 in favour of original fiction), I haven't read any in some ten years and probably won't unless clearly asked to do so. This is for a few reasons: a) the aforementioned disinterest in fan renditions of something I am quite happy with already, considering how, to my knowledge, most of the stories going around focus on the main ship; b) to preserve my own ideas for stories, should I encounter someone exploring a plot I had thought of exploring myself, so I can avoid mixing things up, or going through the disheartening effect of "they've done it already so I won't bother"; and c) because my eyes are not what they used to be when younger: between reading fanfic on a screen and reading classic authors (my favourite) in physical books, I hope you will not begrudge me for choosing the latter.

#just a few psa's i guess #so nobody gets upset with me without knowing what's going on #i had a second idea for a doctor superion thing yesterday so now i'm trying to finish the first one #kind of annoyed with myself really; i told myself i wouldn't write fic but i guess shit happens #and 40+ year old women just invade your brain and Will Not Leave until you write #anyway. these are my true colours i am terrible lol #we'll see where i'll fit in some of my other analysis posts that are in the works as well #i thought of dedicating this week to fic writing after yesterday's analysis post was so well-received #also because i came back to this blog primarily to post fic and not analysis believe it or not #so i might as well Do The Thing already #OR i could go back to saint augustine #which is what i have been reading these past few days #for reasons of More Unexpected WN analysis #decisions decisions #silly blabbering

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yesimadeanotherblogfuckoff · 10 months

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GO S2 OPENING ANALYSIS PT 1 (also Potential GO spoilers idk)

I haven't really seen anyone go in depth on the opening for season two yet so I'm making to this to point out all the things i spotted and some theories this is SUPER LONG POST SO BE WARNED

Crowley crawls up while Aziraphale floats down which is fitting but there's also storm clouds in the distance so there might be a scene after the flood or it's a sign of impending doom

right after crowley and aziraphale go through that dark tunnel Gabriel(?) can be spotted with that infamous box

they're in the middle of a scorched village and crowley sets goats on fire which pretty much confirms that they are somehow going to be involved with the story of Job if not directly involved

here we have that Gabriel statue from the trailer and a gravestone with "EVERYDAY" written on it, the reoccurring song that somehow related to the mystery

here's another gravestone with something written on it, this was the best photo i could get and i tried lightening it but i can't figure out what it says so if anyone has any ideas feel free to share

gravestone with jane austen on it, this author has been referenced quite a bit from the info we have about s2 so far and is on the cover for the episode "The Ball" so looking forward to that

"HERE LIES THE FORMER SHELL OF BEELZLEBUB" so i guess that's Neil's explanation for them having a different actor? Beelzebub molted? gross but very creative

also im pretty sure that bottom one says "Here Lies ADAM" as in antichrist Adam? oh man i hope he isn't dead he was such a sweet kid

there's a guillotine in the far back during their walk through hell hope that isn't foreshadowing anything 0-0

they also have this office on a pillar above the fiery pit of hell which i find very funny but this could also maybe be related to Shax? where she used to work maybe??

a sign for an underground train station so i guess we'll be expecting a train station scene of some kind?

the group walks through this gate with "GENTS" at the top no idea what that implys but i'll put it here anyways

there's a "WINGS FOR VICTORY" sign on the side of this bus which is a reference to British saving campaigns during WWII so confirms more WWII era stuff with aziraphale and crowley

there is this poster for STAIRWAY TO HEAVEN and my first thought was the LED ZEPPLIN song but actually it's a reference this 1946 movie

in which a British wartime aviator who cheats death must argue for his life before a celestial court, hoping to prolong his fledgling romance with an American girl

so thats INTERESTING and COOL and totally doesn't imply ANYTHING about aziraphale and crowley's relationship or (potentially) maggie and nina's

but there is also a Zeppelin (it looks more like a blimp but whatever) and later on they go into a theater which looks very similar to the album cover for Stairway to Heaven

so I'm not gonna rule it out

there's a poster that says "THE FABULOUS LADIES OF CAMELOT" which is probably the group name of the show girls we saw in the trailer it says they are performing at the Windmill Theatre in London which is real and very famous for its Windmill girls who performed as nude living statues

i think this box is part of that saw a person in half trick and i can't wait to see Aziraphale attempt this trick and miserably fail like he always does, lot of laughs for sure

here's aziraphale on stage in his magician's outfit from the trailer but crowley is there as well so maybe he's his assistant? if so thats super funny and explains why crowley is not a fan of his magic act later on

very cute moment of crowley and aziraphale twirling around each other in the stars (this could be a nod to that moment that people spoiled for the first two episodes will know what im talking about )

this bridge they're walking on could potentially be the Humber Bridge near Kingston upon Hull, East Riding of Yorkshire, England (?)

or just a random ass bridge lol i do love to theorize tho

this airplane has "THY KINGDOM AIRWAYS" on its side very funny gag

these cotton candy hearts appear to be raining from the sky which im not sure what that implies but this season is focusing more on romance so it fits (also crowley and azira sitting together on the roof cute <3)

here we have maggie's record shop and nina's cafe right next to each other with record banners on the street, maybe a promotional party for the store? there's also a jukebox with records stacked in front of it. there's a promotional image of aziraphale holding everyday on vinyl (that i can't find sorry) so maybe he's gonna use this jukebox to play it?

i believe this is Gabriel(?) holding the package and going down an elevator from Heaven so he wasn't lying about needing to deliver something to Aziraphale something must've happened to him on his way over

one of the group is holding a sign for the "The 2nd Coming" as in the second coming of Jesus Christ?

A bar called The Dirty Donkey, new location for aziraphale and crowley to dine at? there's a smaller sign there but it's impossible to read HOWEVER

it looks like a holy figure standing in front of the opening of a cave, maybe an angel? considering the clothing maybe Jesus Christ?

I'm at my limit for photos so I will continue this in my next post!

(edit: here's the link for pt 2)

#good omens #good omens season 2 #aziraphale #crowley #aziracrow

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greatqueenanna · 2 years

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Hi! Nice analysis posts about Frozen, I found them very interesting! I love the franchise and the characters very much and I rewatched the first movie over and over again! ^^ While the 2nd one, while I liked it, I couldn't just bring myself to watch it again. Entirely for personal reasons, but in truth I'd like to see it again, so I hope you could help me with my first impressions considering your very good analysis..!

First problem is Elsa's arc. I identified myself a lot with her in first movie and in Let it go; (while I was much older, the song reminded me of my adolescence time). I also have a problematic family and a very conflicted (if not almost abusive) relationship with my mother. So when I see Elsa's part in the 2nd, that begun with the voice, then reach athollan in her self scrifying path, and discovers that the voice was her mother and Elsa validation of who she is, basically pass only throught her mother, it got me a bit angry. (And also following that voice, it ends up with her death.) I admit I jumped over a bit, but it seemed to me that the only validation Elsa accepted of her own self and worth, was that of her mother, and Anna's words never count a lot at the end. Like, at that point of the movie, Elsa's arc only involved just her and her mother, while for example for Anna has always been her and Elsa (or her, Elsa, and her parents). It's only at the end that Elsa remembers Anna and realize what she's done (and what she'd lost).

Second problems is the ending. While I read what you wrote about it, I still do consider they end up separated. Sure, Elsa with Nokk is just mins away, but it's not like been in the same house, seeing each other for breakfast, meeting casually in the halley, etc. It's kinda like living in the city nearby, where yes, you could go whenever in a mins, but at the end, there are obligations, and things you need to do and you end up going more less than what you liked. Sure, you could tell me that it would be the same once Anna got married, but I don't think so. Also well, there's the thing that Elsa is immortal. She's a spirit, already dead once, and while Anna is the bridge, is the human part of it, and human dies.

I always thought the ending was very mature, realistic even, very adult in the meaning of them going separated way, kinda when you and your bf do it in real life, both for study or other life choices. A bitter ending that is more a "Life goes like this" than a fairytail untruth ending. That's what I always thought about it. Being older probably made me see things in another prospective? Maybe..!

Anyway, I hope these walls don't scary you away xD Also, sorry really, it's just that you seem knowledgeable enough to be able to give me a serious rational imput and I decided to wrote it all..! Thank you in advance for reading everything and for any ev. answer! ^^

P.s. also sorry for any mistakes, since english is not my first language..!

Firstly, thank you for your kind words, and I'm glad you enjoy my posts haha. Now, I'll try to give you my perspective on these topics you pointed out, but know that my opinion isn't like...the golden standard lol. People are allowed to not like something, so if you read my points and are not convinced by my opinions, that's perfectly fine!

Let's break this down a bit. We'll start with the easy one.

Elsa's Supposed Immortality

There isn't actually anything confirming that Elsa is immortal now. This idea was mostly theories from fans that were scared about it because of how Elsa was described as a Mythic Character; leading to some debates on whether Elsa's humanity was removed. I talk about this idea more here.

But going back to Elsa's Immortality - considering that Elsa and Anna's love for each other is the bridge between magic and non-magic, I highly doubt that one side of the bridge is meant to live forever while the other side dies. Wouldn't really fit the message. Also, Myth: A Frozen Tale confirms that the Fifth Spirit is the human spirit - Thus, Elsa would need to still be human, (Anna as well) in order to fill this role as the Fifth Spirit.

Over time, a fifth spirit was born: the human spirit. Together, they created a dazzling harmony, and our world danced.

2. Elsa's Arc

In this section, I'm going to break it down based on the points you made.

Elsa's Validation Through Iduna

Firstly, I'm sorry to hear that about your mom. I know what it's like to have a complicated relationship with your parents and trust me - it's never easy to see cartoon characters so easily get validation from parents. But it is what it is.

I think the reason that Elsa needed to hear validation from Iduna (and indirectly, from Agnarr) is that she feels that they sacrificed a lot to protect her, including their livelihoods. Elsa doesn't really blame her parents for the childhood separation - she blames herself because of her magic. When Anna tells Elsa that she isn't responsible for their choices, Elsa still thinks it's her fault that they died.

Thus, the last thing holding her back is her guilt - that she doesn't deserve to feel happy about herself because her magic caused so much pain that she can't change. That's why she's so reluctant to follow the voice even though she wants to, why she pushes Anna away, why she basically puts the weight of the world on her shoulders - because she feels she caused people pain just by existing, and that she owes them something - like unwanted protection or her life.

However, when Iduna tells her to embrace herself - she's hearing straight from someone that sacrificed a lot for her (according to Elsa), that she is allowed to be herself without guilt. She doesn't owe anyone anything for existing.

Elsa and Anna

You question why Anna's validation wasn't enough - and that is because Anna wasn't the only one Elsa felt she hurt. As said above, Elsa blames herself for her parent's actions, so she feels she hurt them too. Elsa already got validation from Anna in Frozen - Anna showing her that she doesn't care about Elsa's magic being dangerous or whatnot, and is willing to sacrifice herself even after being struck by them.

However, the problem here is that Anna starts to become Elsa's only source of validation. And after a while, one person constantly making you feel better about yourself isn't enough - you need to start giving yourself your own validation. Elsa needed to stop depending on others and love herself - the last thing she needed was the validation from her parents to finally put her guilt to rest.

Now, a lot of people hate it when I bring this up but it's still something important to discuss - Elsa and Anna had a co-dependency. Elsa, as said, was getting emotional validation from Anna - whenever she was self-hating, she needed Anna to pull her out because she couldn't do it herself.

On the other hand, Anna was getting purpose from Elsa - Anna sort of focused her whole life on protecting Elsa because she is the last blood relative she has - the last thing from her childhood that wasn't taken from her. Anna was in this mindset that she needed to protect Elsa and be present at all times in order to keep her from leaving or disappearing again. However, by doing this Anna has become more of an overbearing mother to Elsa than a sister, scolding her and guiding her like a mother does to a child.

This is another reason why Anna's validation was starting to become more...not meaningless, but a bit hollow. Elsa needed to stop depending on Anna for validation, especially since Anna was starting to become dependent on it herself.

However, when Elsa dies, Anna gets a sort of reality check. No matter how hard she tries, she can't stop change from happening. She can't make things stay the same because she can't control outside forces, and she certainly can't control other people's agency, no matter how stupid or reckless their choices are. You can try and guide them the best you can, but in the end, the more you push against them, the more they push back. It hurts - I know from my own life that change sucks when you're used to something for so long or you see people you love making stupid choices. But change is inevitable, and people are not always going to see your side.

Elsa Sacrificing Herself

Elsa sacrificing herself - was her own choice, not so much because she followed the voice. Once Elsa reached Ahtohallan, accepted herself, and found self-validation - that was the end of the following the voice arc. She pretty much had the freedom to leave at that point, and there was nothing really forcing her to follow Runeard's memory.

Elsa going deep into Ahtohallan was hinted at as being a bad choice - the same motif from All is Found keeps playing over and over again as Elsa goes deeper. "Dive down deep into her sound, but not too far or you'll be drowned." As if Ahtohallan (or maybe even Iduna herself) is telling her to stop, but she insists. And as she freezes, the music becomes tragic - followed by Bruni and Gale showing hurt when they hear Anna's cries.

All of this hints that Elsa made a bad choice - that it was nothing but a tragedy that Elsa felt she needed to do this to save the forest. This is why Elsa is often described as a Mythic Character - Mythic characters carry the weight and sins of the world on their shoulders, and their stories often end in tragedy because of this. This is where Anna's fairytale side comes in - her triumph over adversity brings Elsa back.

3. The Ending

Not liking change can also be applied to the ending. For many fans, Anna and Elsa being together and being static is a source of comfort. It's something we can fall back on because that connection they have is reliable and gives us happiness. F2 showing change is going against a lot of established ideas in Disney animation. For example, Disney characters always wearing the same outfits or never aging, or always being together with loved ones. Ralph Breaks the Internet and Toy Story 4 also did this (TS4 being even more extreme).

F2 shows the sisters taking on different roles, living separately, and even changing their iconic hairstyles and costumes. That thing we relied on so much is now different, and that doesn't sit well with many people. Now we are told that even our safe, comfort areas can change and it's uncomfortable, to say the least.

I figure you're coming from my post on my side blog where I mentioned how people tend to put too much emphasis and importance on Elsa and Anna's sisterhood rather than their individual characters - which is also relevant here. Not that you specifically are doing this, but some have become a bit too reliant on that sisterhood connection, and seeing them apart removes that comfort zone from them.

However, at the end of the day, Anna and Elsa are sisters, and many times siblings discover something they like and go to pursue it because they are individuals with different interests and lives outside of each other. It's realistic, but again uncomfortable for those that relied on their connection as a comfort zone, not a meta for how change is inevitable. Many didn't really want or maybe even needed this message - but it's still an important one nonetheless.

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I hope I answered all your concerns and maybe given you a bit of comfort.

#greatqueenanna/responses #long post

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talkfantasytome · 3 years

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Going to delete ask posts that directly linked other people's posts, based on this feedback and suggestion (which I thoroughly appreciate!), as I'm not trying to point fingers at anyone or directly tell a specific person they're wrong. I'll repost the general content, with a summary of what was asked, starting with this post.

Anon Ask: Some people are saying that SJM has confirmed Vassien by saying that she'd like to do retellings of firebird legends, swan lake, and Vasilisa the Beautiful, using some shots of her comments. What are your thoughts on this? And the time on facebook that Sarah said E\ain and Lucien have a lot of "tension, growth, and healing to be found (together)".

The most important thing to consider here is timeline. Both of the twitter shown were made in April of 2015. The first one is, honestly, fairly irrelevant. First of all, she's just saying fairy tales she might like to retell. And, for the record, she has also said she'd like to do a retelling of The Little Mermaid, yet often people disregard that as an argument for Gwynriel. So, either her comments on what she'd like to do a retelling of matter, or they don't.

And, if they're saying that those comments are foreshadowing a Vassa + Lucien book, then clearly The Little Mermaid comments are foreshadowing a Gwynriel book. And then...where's E\ain's?

E\ain is getting a book, so which fairy tale gets the short straw?

Or, maybe, the story won't be exactly like the fairy tale.

I do think that both of those comments are important, but Sarah said she wants to do a retelling.

That could literally mean anything. All that tells us is that she will take themes and ideas from the story. I'm not saying Vassa won't be important in a later book, but Sarah can retell the story any way. She could have Vassa betray E\ain, get Koschei to transfer the curse over to the middle Archeron, and now E\ain is the swan on the lake (cause, come on, E\ain's def. a bit swan-like), and Lucien has to rescue her. Or, maybe Jurian is the one that rescues Vassa while Lucien and E\ain deal with Koschei?

There are so many options in a retelling that to say SJM telling us she wants to do a retelling of these stories is a clear sign that Vassa + Lucien are endgame is, honestly, not a very critical analysis.

I'm going to address this tweet next:

This twitter exchange happed April 30, 2015. ACOMAF was published in May of 2016. This post can not be used as foreshadowing of Vassa + Lucien, because it happened before we found out E\ain and Lucien are mates. That "at some point further down the road" literally means "any time after book 1".

People keep using this tweet and presenting it as if Sarah's response came recently. They're spreading misinformation - it may not be purposeful, they may not have seen or noticed the date, but this twitter exchange can't be used as proof that Lucien's person has to be someone other than E\ain, because when it was made we did not know about the Lucien and E\ain possibility.

That doesn't mean it definitely is talking about E\ain, but my point is that this is not proof of Vassa + Lucien, of someone else + Lucien, because of when it was posted.

As for other comments on retellings Sarah would like to do - it's the same argument as the first one. Sarah said she wants to do a retelling of the firebird and swan like. We all know this. It's not new information. People who are saying Vassa + Lucien won't happen aren't ignorant of this fact. We're well aware, and we're also well aware of every other thing Sarah has said, mentioned, foreshadowed, and we're tying it all together. Focusing solely on stories Sarah has mentioned she'd like to retell - not confirmed she will retell - and ignoring everything else doesn't provide a solid analysis. You have to weave how those stories would fit into the grander scheme, and look at the other surrounding factors as well.

And, again, we need to remember that Sarah can do whatever the hell she wants in terms of the story and how she chooses to retell a fairy tale. I mean, how often is Little Red Riding Hood turned into a werewolf story? And sometimes even Red is the wolf?

Writers use fairy tales as a base, a foundation, but then they make it their own. No writer is going to tell the fairy tale exactly how it first was. They're going to adjust it...a lot...to make it their own story.

I'd also like to point out that both times she mentions Vasilisa, she says "Vasilisa the Beautiful". The first time she also said 'the Brave', but the second, solely 'Beautiful'. Vassa is beautiful, of course, but one of E\ain's defining characteristics is her beauty. Even in ACOSF it was again mentioned, discussed, about how her beauty made others hate her.

Could Vassa be Vasilisa...of course. However, I think people are a bit blinded by the similarities in names. Remember, Vasilisa the Beautiful wasn't the firebird - those are different stories. And, honestly, after doing a bit of research into the tale, I'm starting to get more and more sure of the thought that the character who would portray Vasilisa is E\ain.

I think I'm going to do a post on it...

In the later comment on retellings she'd like to do - which we know came after the first as the first came out in August 2015 and that story she's telling was given after the second set of books was confirmed - I also find it interesting that she said Vasilisa the Beautiful (specifically) and Swan Lake, subbing out the firebird.

Why would she do that? Perhaps because she's already brought in the firebird pieces she planned to bring in. We already know that retelling, and how it's come to play. Vassa is a firebird by the curse.

I'm not saying it couldn't end in a Swan Lake thing, as that is what the curse reminds me of. But, personally, I think the fact that she's saying Swan Lake now is also symbolic of something more, possibly another character getting trapped by Koschei.

As for the other piece you asked about, I don't have much to say about it, because it feels like the closest we'll come to an elucien confirmation.

That was also posted a while ago, back when ACOMAF came out. So, it's not like this is recent information Sarah is providing us. However, we know that Sarah can sometimes end up choosing endgame based on gut and things that just hit her. Cassian and Nesta - literally didn't know about them until she wrote them on the same page and was like "oh shit". So Sarah saying that she and Lucien didn't see E\ain coming...I'm sorry, but that feels almost more telling than even the next part of the sentence - where she says they have growing and healing to do together.

That's so huge. And we haven't seen that yet. We've only really seen the tension.

Sarah said this back when ACOMAF came out. And it was around writing or publishing ACOWAR that she got the okay for the second set of books (I think?). Which means she was likely thinking about the longer-term stories before that. Which would explain why we didn't get that growth and healing in ACOWAR.

Instead, she left them in a spot where it seemed like a possibility, and then for the later books has just added more tension. But that journey is still there. She's had it planned for so long. And yes, maybe she could change her mind, but we only know of two cases where she did just that:

Az and Mor

Nesta and Lucien

For Az and Mor it was because she decided to make Mor bisexual and unable to be in an emotional relationship with a male. This was due to complaints over diversity. It's the closest Sarah's probably come to 'fanservice' - except, admittedly, this is so not fanservice. Fanservice is doing something like, say, having Voldemort and Bellatrix have a secret love child despite the fact that Voldy never once came off as having any form of romantic or sexual feelings for her or anyone, ever. (Seriously, that guy was asexual and that is a hill I'll die on.)

Adjusting a character due to legitimate complaints and concerns on diversity, not just fanservice. It's more a full on social service, really, to try and provide that representation better. Yes, it wasn't done in the best way, but she did make an attempt.

The second one - Nesta and Lucien. That was her general plan, until she put Nesta and Cassian on page together. Then it all went out the window. Just like all of Nesta's thoughts when she saw Cassian. Just like Cassian's entire brain when he saw Nesta. 👀

And we get it, because we see it too.

So, while Sarah could have changed her mind about E\ain and Lucien, the only reasons she'd do that don't yet apply. She's already made a change for the diversity complaints, and I don't see her doing that with these two. As for finding out they actually belong with someone else when she sees them on page - well, that hasn't happened yet. She made the E\ain + Lucien decision after we see E\ain and Azriel interact, so clearly Az is not that for E\ain. And we've seen Lucien and Vassa on page together. There's nothing there except Lucien being pained about her curse - which, yeah, she's his friend. How often is one IC member described as looking pained for another? Or thinks about how much it hurt them to see their friend hurt?

But we know what it looks like when the chemistry is so undeniable it will adjust Sarah's plans. And if you're not sure - go back and read all the Nessian scenes in ACOMAF. And then see the one scene where Lucien and Vassa are on page together - I think you'll find there's another male there that, with Vassa, rings closer to the Nessian home.

There was no on page chemistry between Vassa and Lucien, and certainly not enough to change Sarah's mind. Which would also mean E\ain already wasn't meant for Az, which is likely why no one arguing for Vassa + Lucien seems to care as much about that, because most people who ship them are already dead set on E\ain + Azriel.

So, there you have it, my point of view/rant on those two pieces. But it's always important to look at the context of a post, and especially the "source material" people use to provide proof. It's why I tend to stick to the text where I can, and only use SJM statements that don't have an expiration date to their importance. SJM saying something about how she loves happily ever afters, for example, no expiration date. SJM telling us in 2015 that there is someone special for Lucien down the road - an expiration date after the first sign of a possible love interest for Lucien. Once E\ain was declared to be his mate, that statement became irrelevant, because regardless of whether it will be E\ain or not, you can no longer state that it's clearly hinting at someone else, since E\ain is a love interest for Lucien.

#ask box #acotar #acotar thoughts #acotar theory #elucien #antielriel #anti elriel #anti vassien #elain archeron #elain and lucien #elain x lucien #lucien vanserra #gwynriel

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