#watcher you can have these episodes for free.*
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Thinking you shouldn't have to pay for Watcher content is you being entitled, actually.
did i ever say i shouldn’t have to pay for it? no, i said it’s disappointing that i would now have to after years of it being free. it would be easier to take if they were completely changing and upgrading their shows or established that the stream wouldn’t just have their current shows and maybe discontinued ones, that it would be different from their youtube channel and worth the sudden charge, but it’s hard not to feel like they’re throwing their audience under the bus
#from what weve seen the shows will still have the same number of episodes so we arent even getting more of the same content#just nebulous ‘better’ content which could mean anything and also nothing when the shows have gradually started to feel overproduced#it is my and anyone elses right to be disappointed by this#and its a personal choice#if you think its worth the money or if youre in a place where you can afford another service then thats wonderful and i hope you enjoy it#but that doesnt make it any less tone deaf to say we as a company need more money when people cant afford to eat#plenty of creators have successfully crowdfunded their own shows without putting all of it behind a paywall#critical role immediately comes to mind#they have literal thousands of hours of content for free and when it came time to ask for money people showed up for them#the answer didnt have to be put everything on a streaming service when there were plenty of other options#its also just a bad business decision but i dont have the expertise to talk about that#tldr people are allowed to feel however they want about this#also acting like its somehow more ‘authentic’ to get money from your audience#instead of advertisers and sponsors who can actually afford it is sus as hell im just saying#mailbox#coming out of my cage and ive been doing just fine.txt#watcher#shane madej#ryan bergara#steven lim
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Summary of the Watcher apology video:
So they’ve started by saying we’re sorry we are gonna make changes
They acknowledge they didn’t announce it well and didn’t properly express appreciation for their audience
They have apologized for the cost and stating that the cost was smth everyone could afford
They’re making it so you can watch shows on the streaming platform a month early and ad free before they come out on YouTube for free
For those that have already subscribed they will issue a full refund if you want it
All episodes and series will remain on YouTube and new ones will premier on YouTube a month after they premier on the streaming service
They said they did it because they didn’t want to have to conform to YouTube ad requirements, didn’t want to fire anyone, and didn’t want to end the company which would’ve happened if they stayed on YouTube only
They said they overlooked how this would impact the fans
They are giving all patreon members a free subscription to the platform and will give a refund to those who already paid
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long (like ridiculously long) rant about watcher entertainment
Whilst the vast majority of the response to the watcher drama has been negative I still have seen a few people expressing opinions along the lines of ‘oh its just $6’ ‘shouldn't creators be paid for their work’ etc. I also think this situation is getting a lot of attention from people who don't necessarily watch Watcher, or haven’t keep up with them in years so here is my breakdown of why people are unhappy with the announcement that Watcher will be putting ALL upcoming content behind a $6 a month streaming service (with the exception of the premiere episode of each season going to Youtube.)
The issue is not that it's $6.
The success of other internet companies like dropout and smosh is proof people are willing to pay for content they enjoy and to support independent content creators. I personally have given money to kickstarters, patreons, digital downloads etc in the past. But I do that because I know I’m valued as a fan with and without my money. I still get access to content on youtube for free. Even Dropout, who is a much larger and more expensive operation than Watcher, releasing 5 show a week, still maintains a steady Youtube presence.
The thing with these internet companies is they can be successful in creating something but they do have to understand that you are on the internet. You're not netflix or HBO or hulu or whatever. Watcher’s obsession with creating ‘television-calibre content’ worth $6 a month whilst also only having one show a week is unrealistic. They want to be independent creators but also television producers… but you’re not! They hate being youtubers so much but YOU ARE. That’s how you gained a fanbase in the first place and you were successful at it! If you’re not happy being a youtuber that’s fine, move on and do something else. But you can’t expect it to be funded by the fans. So many famous artists create content they care less about that has a larger audience, and that in turn funds the stuff they DO care about. If you’re so dedicated to making expensive, high-quality productions you should be using these smaller cheaper shows to save money and fund them, rather than forcing everyone of your fans to pay a monthly subscription fee that I’m sorry, just isnt worth it or is simply unaffordable for the majority of your audience who you have now essentially told aren’t welcome or valued by you. And which one is it?
Such a large percentage of your audience are casual viewers too. Why cut out that completely? What fans are you expecting to follow you to this ? Your most dedicated fans are there because they like Ryan and Shane, so why not push that? Are you trying to appeal to your fans or are you trying to make the content you want. There’s no clear creative direction that makes sense with this move and that’s why people aren’t supporting you.
Also I’m sorry but how can we suddenly trust the content is gonna improve once we start funding it when there’s already been so many missteps both in their content and their business. Look at how many fans have said Ghost Files and Mystery Files have started feeling phoned in. Their patreon has been mismanaged for years, they barely promote it and the perks on there aren't really worth it (but they have 6000 paying members because people can and do want to support them!). They go months having barely any merch. There are ways to make money on youtube, they’re just not doing it well .
And I’m sorry. But there is just absolutely no reason to have 25 employees. Shows like Survival mode should be cheap and easy to produce, and help bring in money to support larger ventures like ghost files. So why are there 18 people credited for a video of you playing Minecraft? And of course I don’t want people to lose their jobs. But continuing with this is going to cause EVERYONE to lose their jobs regardless.
They also barely have a plan for their new content. People watch for Ryan and Shane, you KNOW THAT. So why is your first new big show hiring the worth it boys and doing a globe-trotting, crazily expensive show. Are you even really expanding your content if you’re still sticking to a one-video-a-week schedule with no present plan to change that? They have a survey for subscribers to vote which past show to bring back, but there’s obviously a major budget difference between filming something like Weird Wonderful World and something like SD&D&D… or at least there should be but there isn't when you employ 20 people to make one video. There’s such a clear lack of thought put into it that makes me even less likely to want to support.
I want to say that they probably expected a negative backlash and thought they could just wait it out… but did they? Because WHY did they hype this up like it was an insane new announcement fans would go wild for. WHY do this several days before you have live shows where you let fans ask questions live to your faces? So much of this roll out makes absolutely no sense and makes Ryan, Shane, and Steve look so ridiculously out-of-touch with their fanbase, which only makes fans feel even less supportive.
I think their defenders think we want to see Watcher crash and burn but the majority of us don't. I want them to be successful but this isn't the way to do it and I truly do believe it’s going to ruin their company. Unfortunately as much as I love them, I wont be supporting them.
#watcher#watcher entertainment#ryan bergara#shane madej#steven lim#buzzfeed unsolved#ghost files#mystery files#seriously though... what the hell#i dont even use tumblr anymore but i just had to get my thoughts out#sorry i don’t know how to do the read more function i haven’t properly used tumblr since 2016
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i think for me, the watcher situation comes down to this:
it's absolutely respectable that the watcher team wants to grow and produce better quality content. it's respectable that they don't want to stagnate and end up pushing the same content out over and over again. that's not satisfying for them creatively, i get that.
however, if higher quality, more heavily produced content is not what your fans are asking for, then you can't ask them to fund it.
this all-or-nothing method they've gone for is frankly bizarre. it feels like they leap-frogged all other alternatives to improving their finances and ended up here, alienating and frustrating the majority of their fanbase (the fanbase they thanked for getting them to where they are).
i think this could have gone a lot better if they:
Hadn't hyped up this video for a week.
Hadn't announced the worth it successor just beforehand.
Hadn't put out a wishy-washy, "boo hoo we're so sad about this", over-produced video.
Hadn't made it $6/month (more in a lot of countries given exchange rates).
Had considered that this means fans in specific countries literally cannot pay for the subscription due to geo/region-locking.
my ideas for improving their funds, aka things they could have tried before blowing their brand up: create their own website with two options - a free version with ads and a paid version without ads, OR make better use of their patreon/make their website extra content, not all their content, for example:
Put the ghost file debriefs on there.
Put shows like survival mode on there (or even shift that show from pre-recorded video to live-stream - live stream access to patrons and VOD access to everyone, maybe).
Put episode commentaries there.
Do reaction videos to their old buzzfeed content, talk about memories and BTS, and put that there.
Put one/two episodes of each show, per season on there (and ONLY there).
Put the episodes up there a few days early.
Make specific, website only content (that's not your main and most popular series aka ghost files and puppet history).
Record the live, in-person shows and put those VODs up there.
EDIT (thought of something else lmao): put extended or even uncut versions of ghost files on there. Paranormal Detour on Detune's twitch channel has shown that people will willingly sit through 6+ hours of a ghost investigation.
EDIT: idk, do livestreams once a week where you watch scary movies with fans on discord or twitch.
(side note: the fact that they're not taking down their patreon and instead shifting all of their podcast content on there, something the patreons who have been loyally giving them money for years didn't ask for, is ridiculous and greedy. add to this the fact that they don't even get a free sub to the new website, instead get 40% off - a measly 10% more than anyone else who subs before the official launch).
the thing for me is that they're claiming they want to make "television" and "television-grade content". that's completely fine. what's not completely fine is acting like your four episodes a month is equal to netflix's entire catalogue.
this really felt like it should have been something they told us they were progressing towards, not something they revealed to be on the imminent horizon. idk, it just feels out of nowhere. no, they don't owe us all of the info about their company. but something had to be better than this.
final thought - it's okay and valid to be upset at the team for this. for a lot of people, it's a complete betrayal (especially the comment that $6 a month is something "anyone and everyone can afford", i mean yikes). i do think some people's anger got the best of them, and some of the comments i've seen across youtube, twitter, and tumblr are plain bullying, racism, and harassment. until we have the whole story, we can't decide that one founder (aka steven in a lot of people's minds) is solely responsible. i know a lot of these awful things are only coming from a small minority of the fandom, but they still get seen.
at the end of the day, all three of them got up in front of a camera and made this video, together. that can only lead us to the conclusion that they made this decision together. acting like these men in their 30s couldn't stand up against it if they truly wanted to, is so strange and parasocial lmao.
tl;dr there were much better ways of going about this announcement, if it even needed to be made at all. however, that doesn't excuse the hateful shit being spewed at the team. for now, all we know is the three founders decided they were done with youtube, and done with their loyal youtube audience.
(i have so many more thoughts on this but i need to stop lmao. however i do wonder how different things could have been if 1. they had hired someone with actual business experience as their CEO from the jump, and 2. this video was more of a "hey we're broke! this is a last-ditch effort to save our company!". guess those questions will remain ... well ... you know ...).
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Help! I loved Nerdy Prudes Must Die and am curious about Nightmare Time but don't really have time to commit to watching it all... (a handy guide)
For those of you who don't know Nightmare Time was a series of Hatchetfield one shots that starkid wrote and recorded during lockdown, all of which are of course available for free on YouTube. They go a lot deeper into the lore than the 3 Hatchetfield musicals, including explaining and explore the characters we know and love in more detail, sometimes including shocking revelations.
They also introduce new characters to the Hatchetfield universe, including Stephanie Lauter, Grace Chasity and Pete Spankoffski, who we first met in a Nightmare Time episode.
As they were filmed in lockdown the recording quality is somewhat variable, but Season 2 has a much higher production value than Season 1, and in Season 1 Episode 1 in particular they were very clearly trying to find their feet with it. That being said the actual scripts and content of the episodes is solid throughout.
I've decided to put together this handy guide of which Nightmare Time episodes people might want to check out if they want to learn more about certain things we saw in NPMD.
1) Nibbly - Honey Queen (season 2 episode 1)
If you're curious to learn more about the Lords in Black each of them (bar Wiggly) have an episode of Nightmare Time devoted to them.
For Nibbly, Wiggly's hungriest and pinkest brother that episode is 'Honey Queen' in Season 2 Episode 1.
It explores a very entertaining rivalry between Linda Monroe (from Black Friday) and Zoey (the annoying barista from Beanie's in TGWDLM) that naturally turns very very dark. We also get to meet Linda's husband Gerald who she spends most of Black Friday on the phone to.
As a heads up Nibbly doesn't appear until, shall we say, the end of the episode (with Hatchetfield there's always a twist) and he's not in the super sexy form from NPMD but it's a very strong episode and does give a bit of background to Nibbly's deal.
2) Tinky - Time Bastard (season 1 episode 2 part 2)
If you're curious to learn more about this yellow motherfucker played by Curt then you're in luck because he's in my personal favourite episode and one with a lot of interesting lore surrounding it.
If you're curious about what he means when in NPMD he says 'I could add another Spankoffski to my set', Time Bastard is focused around Pete's brother Ted (from TGWDLM) and the dodgy dealings of CCRP.
It's an extremely clever episode, with lots of really fun twists. It's unfortunately season 1 so has slightly lower production quality, but in terms of raw scripting is just outstanding and has some really interesting reveals about people in the Hatchetfield universe who may not be who we think they are...
Also worth noting that this is in the same episode (Youtube video) as a different Nightmare Time episode 'Forever and Always'. Most episodes work like this where you have two different stories per episode, they absolutely can be watched independently but usually have some sort of thematic link (in this case it's the things we do for love and how they will inevitably be thwarted by CCRP being sketch).
3) Blinky - Watcher World (season 1 episode 1 part 2)
And if you're curious about the one who's always watching you, he's actually the first Lord in Black we meet through Nightmare Time, in the very first episode when Bill and Alice Woodward (TGWDLM) go on an ill fated trip to a spooky theme park.
Again this is from the first episode so production quality is low but it's a really solid episode and a very interesting look into these characters.
While this is our first meeting of a lord in black in Nightmare Time, I don't believe he's actually referred to as such, and the concept of the Lords in Blacks being introduced as Wiggly's brothers comes in at point 5 on this list.
4) Pokey - Yellow Jacket (season 2 episode 4)
You've already met Pokey through TGWDLM (yep that was his blue shit that destroyed the world!), but you won't truly realise how fucking scary he is until you meet his incarnation 'Otho' in Yellow Jacket.
A solid episode exploring Lex, Hannah and Ethan in a lot more detail, and in a world and lives where (at least at the start of the episode) things seem to be a lot more stable for them than in Black Friday.
And yeh as I've already mentioned Pokey is fucking s c a r y in it. Also you remember James Tolbert's character, Charles that gets a little cameo in Hatchetown? Well he's the main human antagonist of this episode!
We also learn a lot of lore about 'the gift', the thing that makes Hannah able to do magic.
5) The concept of the Lords in Black generally - The Witch in the Web (season 2 episode 3 part 2)
If you're curious about why everyone's been posting pictures of those evil teddy bears and now even more confused that you've met them all as fucked up high school students, the Witch in the Web is the episode where we're first introduced to the 'they don't care bears' as a set.
This is a really cool episode, again about Lex and Hannah, but it also exploring Uncle Wiley (from Black Friday) in a lot more detail.
We also first meet two characters called Duke and Miss Holloway who together form the ship Holloduke that if you were following any of Starkid tumblr during lockdown you will definitely have heard of. They're really cool!
Here we also meet Webby, Hannah's imaginary friend in Black Friday, who turns out to be the lord in black's sister: a queen in white. And she's dope.
6) Pete Spankoffski, Stephanie Lauter and Grace Chasity - Abstinence Camp (season 2 episode 2 part 2)
We first meet the now beloved characters of Pete and Steph and the slightly less beloved character of Grace in an evangelical abstinence only camp. The episode centers entirely around these characters and plays excellently with tropes of the horror genre.
It also has the best song in all of Nightmare Time and it's up to you to decide if I'm talking about 'oh my god it's the axe-man' or 'virginity rocks' (it's both, the answer is both).
That's pretty much it in terms of Nightmare Time episodes that cover things from NPMD, but in case you're curious here's a quick run down of what the rest are about:
The Hatchetfield Ape Man - season 1 episode 1 part 1. Hidgens makes Ted pretend to be a Tarzan style half monkey, half man thing to con Angela Giarratanna out of her inheretence.
Watcher World - season 1 episode 1 part 2. See bullet 3 above. Alice and Bill Woodward go to a theme park and shit hits the fan.
Forever and Always - season 2 episode 2 part 1. Paul and Emma get married. Things are not as they seem (there are robots). One of my personal favourites.
Time Bastard - season 2 episode 2 part 2. See bullet 2 above. Ted fucks with time travel and things end very badly for him. Best episode imo.
Jane's a Car - season 2 episode 3 part 1. Turns out the soul of Tom Houston's ex-wife Jane, who died in a car crash, transferred into the car. This somewhat complicates his budding relationship with Becky Barnes.
The Witch in the Web - season 2 episode 3 part 2. See bullet 5 above. Hannah Foster's having nightmares and somehow a witch and Uncle Wiley are involved. Luckily a good witch (Miss Holloway) is there to try and help.
Honey Queen - season 2 episode 1. See bullet 1 above. Linda Monroe and Zoey Chambers compete to win the Hatchetfield honey queen beauty pageant and things spiral wildly out of control. My personal favourite episode from season 2.
Perky's Buds - season 2 episode 2 part 1. Emma's finally achieved her dream of owning her own pot farm. Just her, her non-binary farm hand Ziggs and some very evil birds.
Abstinence Camp - season 2 episode 2 part 2. See bullet 6 above. Pete, Steph and Grace go to a retreat in the very creepy woods to learn one way or another about the perils of pre-marital sex.
Daddy - season 2 episode 3 part 1. Remember Sherman Young (Jamie's weird creepy guy from Black Friday)? Turns out there's something very weird going on with his mum. We also learn a lot about Frank Pricely (owner of toyzone from Black Friday) in this episode, who turns out to be a very interesting character.
Killer Track - season 2 episode 3 part 2. Miss Holloway must take extreme action to save a young girl and then the whole world against an evil song that kills anyone who listens to it. We learn a lot more about Holloway as a character and she is soooo cool. Another favourite episode of mine.
Yellow Jacket - season 2 episode 4. See bullet point 4. Hannah seeing her sister struggling to provide for them financially decides to find a way of using her power to earn some spare cash.
Hey Melissa - episode aired only on a livestream, type it into youtube and it'll come up. If you've ever found yourself asking 'what if Mariah's secretary character from the start of TGWDLM was really into dom pup play and Paul Matthews was her little pup bitch and she was also a horrific out of control serial killer?' then a) are you Matt Lang because if not I'm concerned? and b) by god this is the episode for you!. I personally really enjoy it I think it's super funny, but obviously heavy trigger warnings for abuse and sexual content warnings (there's a reason they didn't put this in the real series). Fucking excellent tho.
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So like most people on here I had been watching Watcher since they started their channel, and like most others I was surprised/concerned at the announcement that they're starting a streaming service. After checking out the site and looking close at their YouTube, this feels destined to fail.
I'll go through my thoughts.
They don't currently post enough to justify the paywall
Over the past year, they have posted between 4 to 9 videos a month. That is a decent amount for most YouTube channels, but for a streaming service that is way to low. For $5.99 a month, getting only 4 episodes is not a good deal when other services give you more for less.
What makes this problem worse it that...
They only produce one show at a time
Whenever Watcher releases a shows, they only have that show running. During a series of Mystery Files, they only upload Mystery Files. During a series of Too Many Spirits, they only upload Too Many Spirits. Now this isn't the case all the time, when they have smaller productions they usually release a similar size production along with it.
If we go back to the issue of only getting 4 episodes, this means that you can be paying $5.99 a month to access 4 episodes of a show that you don't enjoy.
These two issues would be less detrimental if it wasn't for the fact that...
They backpedalled removing their YouTube back catalogue
Lets be real, not only were they originally going to remove their YouTube content, It was the only way I could see this being worth the price.
Yes, they say that they aren't removing it, but if you read the full article it say's that "The company originally told Variety that Watcher would eventually remove all of its videos from YouTube".
Their original plan WAS to make all their content exclusive to streaming, the problem was that everyone new this was a scummy idea and they gaslit their audience into thinking they weren't doing that. But that now leaves them with a streaming service where all they offer is 4 episodes of a show per month and a back catalogue that is free on a more well known platform.
The big question I have is...
How are they going to make more content
This is something that I feel should be addressed, they are a small production studio who are trying to "creating television-caliber, unscripted series in the digital space" (direct quote from their YouTube Description). They need more content per month to make this service worth while, how are they going to do that?
Will they push out multiple small budget, easy to film, YouTube like content that bring up the overall upload count which may cause them and their employees to crunch and burn out.
Or are they going to produce several higher budget, TV-calibre shows that would each be more expensive than they can afford to make.
Not sure if this was coherent but thanks for reading anyway.
(sidenote)
While I agree that Steven is getting a huge bulk of the anger that should also be applied to Shane and Ryan, I also have to acknowledge that the first announced show after saying they need money being his travel show is not helping.
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reasons why (in my opinion) the try guys hit the nail on the head with forming a subscription service where watcher fumbled:
try guys has already been making TV-caliber content for a while. without a recipe and phoning it in both feel like professional cooking shows, and the fact that they have actual celebrity guests adds to that. their audience is extremely familiar with them having this huge set and a ton of employees working to produce the videos they love. on top of that, they've been around longer. they mention at the beginning of the announcement they've been on YouTube for ten years, & dropout/CH similarly had been around for a while when it's streaming service dropped. try guys just always felt more professional & as a fan you immediately understand why they would need more money
(edit) also, they have formed an emotional connection between the audience and their employees! people love rachel & know how hard she works & want to see her get paid well for that work. not that the watcher team don't deserve that, but their audience is way less emotionally invested in their employees' wellbeings than with the try guys audience & their non-talent team (& I say this as a fan & regular viewer of both channels).
try guys already had experience with paid content that went over really well with their audience. their live shows proved that their audience was willing to pay a decent amount every once in a while for something cool, and they proved that they would actually provide something cool for that money. people pointed out how watcher neglected their patreon; the try guys made very good use of their live shows imo. and as a result, they are able to say "you'll get free tickets to the live shows!" which is a really good perk if you are someone who enjoys those. instead of paying $20 every once in a while for one live show, you can pay 5$ for free live shows and early content and exclusive new content.
plus, they also reveal their expanded cast, which is something all of their fans have been wondering about for over a year. it's not just keith and zach you get to see, but all of these people their audience now loves and is always talking about wanting to join the try guys officially. collectively the try guys announcement feels more positive in multiple senses, both in emotional vibe and in what the audience is getting out of this.
also: no one can say for certain whether or not they decided to keep posting on YT after the watcher debacle, but I'm gonna give them the benefit of the doubt & believe that they always intended to stay on YouTube. it makes sense as a business decision & it's clear they've been working on this for some time (despite what some people seem to think??). tbh I don't think they were trying to be cruel to watcher in their announcement, I think they just saw that shitstorm and understood they needed to make it clear to their audience that they are not making the same mistakes. EDIT: in the most recent trypod, zach confirmed that they have been planning to 1) create a streaming service 2) keep posting content free on YouTube since 2023. so, no, they did not create 2nd Try or decide to stay on YouTube because of Watcher. stop trying to manufacture drama.
also also: they have, especially in the trypod, been very candid about their struggles with the algorithm and appealing to youtube's demands for content. in one episode I remember them talking about how they wanted to reject the "constant expansion" mindset, placing more focus on what their existing audience wants rather than trying to constantly get new people. they have been open about how certain things they want to do are not viable because of monetization issues; smoke show is a recent example of this.
another edit: also in the recent episode of the trypod, Zach says that they reached out to Sam Reich of Dropout for tips on starting a streaming service & things to avoid. we have no way of telling if Watcher did this, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was also key in why they turned out differently.
tl;dr i think it comes down to what was presented (not leaving youtube, new content that wouldn't be allowed on youtube, free live shows, new cast), how it was presented (shorter video, focus on the excitement & positives, show of respect to those who can't afford the price), and the context surrounding it (being older, a reputation for more professional content, having prepared their audience for a big shift, having previously discussed issues with youtube and their content)
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Ah Watcher moving to a streaming service. I have some DEEPLY mixed feelings on this.
On one hand, they've presented themselves as "anti-capitalist members of the leftist club" for essentially their entire careers. Going as far as to push anti-capitalist ideas front and center in MANY episodes of their shows. I absolutely understand how the audience they built by doing that is feeling betrayed by them doing a very very obvious financially motivated choice! It feels scummy! It feels like you've been lied to.
But I also understand that Watcher is a business.
Not only is Watcher a business, it is an independently run business, trying to make money solely off of YouTube advertisments, merch, and patreon. Given the production value of the stuff it makes, that's hard. Because the reality is it is INCREDIBLY hard to make money in this way, you are essentially scraping together as many pennies as you can through as many means as you can to try and keep everything afloat. That's for creators trying to support just themselves and a few members of their family. A whole company? Not sustainable. Not with what they make.
If they wanted to keep expanding, or maybe even wanted to stay afloat at all, their options were: Better monetize their content (streaming) or get bought out. And I think they COULD have gotten bought out, but we saw what happened to Rooster Teeth. Indies getting bought does NOT always end well and puts you under a lot of restrictions as you now need to appeal to your parent company, which could shut you down at any moment if you aren't proving profitable enough for them.
So... I get why Watcher did this. Do I think they approached it in the best way? Honestly, I'm not sure, they're leaving all their videos up, and they're still posting premieres to YouTube, so there won't be NO free content at all, but this will alienate a large part of their audience.
It's a complicated situation, but I don't think we should treat it as "corporate greed" on the same level as giants like Disney and HBO. It's hard to be indie in this world, and who knows if this gamble will even pay off. We're going to have to wait and see
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TLDR for the Watcher Update:
- All episodes will be posted on both Youtube AND the streaming service, but the streaming service will have it a month in advance and ad-free.
- current Patreon supporters will be receiving a free subscription code for the watcher streaming service. If you had already purchased a subscription, you can contact watcher and get a full refund.
- this also applies to anyone that had already subscribed but now wants to get rid of it because of these changes
- they apologize for their mistakes and acknowledge that their original video was insensitive and not well thought out.
- they go a bit more specific into why they want their own streaming service (freedom from being ad and algorithm friendly), and explain that they didn’t want to either conform to those ever-changing standards, lay off any employees, or shut down watcher.
My own opinion on this? This is a good video, and a good solution. They acknowledge they messed up and were wrong about what people can afford. They are offering a new solution that should be beneficial to everyone, and also ensuring that those who were already supporting them aren’t getting screwed over.
While the video itself does get a bit… corp-speakish at some times, it’s obvious that they’re trying to be clear and professional about this.
(Also, side note: not gonna make this a full-on discussion but some of yall in the fandom need to calm the fuck down)
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hiii sergle do you have any thoughts on the 2nd try try guys thing? curious to hear your opinion!!
i'm so glad you asked bc i love giving my opinion.....
first things first, this is REALLY FUCKING FUNNY, the way that Watcher fumbled the bag so badly when they made their announcement probably gave the tryguys a lot of data to work with. obviously everyone is comparing the two things, but in this instance, I actually think the streaming service thing makes more sense, and is done in a better way, with less guilt tripping and more like, Hype.
so the most relevant thing, nothing about the youtube channel is going to change, no previously free content is going to be paywalled, new videos are going to keep airing. so somebody who missed the news or isn't inch rested isn't going to have a different experience at all.
new shows are going to be on there, but also they're Already On There. like, a lot of episodes. stuff is going to be released earlier on there, uncensored videos, new people showing up (tryguys already has a lot of Talent), and live ticketed events that they normally charge for are gonna be included in the subscription. so like, this sounds justifiable as a thing that you'd Pay For.
Watcher was going to put their whole back catalog behind a paywall, they only had a couple of shows plus One New Steven Food Show that was gonna go on their streaming thing, and they were going to stop posting to youtube except for the first episode from each new season of a thing. and the Watcher one was still priced a dollar higher. and they have a very small cast of talent.
also, it was a Streaming Service, but it was still something you could only watch in a browser, not on a TV or anything. so it was just a website. the one that tryguys have is actually an app you can have on your tv. like on a roku or whatever. so I think that's another point in its favor. you can't launch a "streaming service" that you can't even watch on your tv.
overall, I think it tracks, they've been a business for a lot longer and they've started a bunch of new shows to go on there, the announcement video wasn't Whiny and Guilt Trippy, it seems like they put more thought into this. also I got a free trial to poke around, which, I do like that that's an option.
timing could have been better, some people are being pussies about it in a major way, which is to be expected, and I am basically ambivalent to it, I don't plan on paying, but it seems like it's had a lot more thought put into it, and it could actually be sustainable as a platform running alongside their youtube channel. done correctly, it could be their Mythical Society. if it flops, they aren't alienating their youtube audience.
#they'll probably need to adapt a few things: mainly their pricing for other countries / currencies#bc just converting $5 to other currencies isn't straight-up-and-down they actually have to scale it down a lot of the time#i'm sure it can be done#and I think that they should add a social aspect to their service-- I think a comment section on videos#is an underrated part of one of the things ppl like about youtube#so I think some type of comment section or forum thingy would be good#sergle answers
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watcher update! watcher update!
youtube
a summary
apologized for the announcement, their delivery of it, their bad explanation and their framing of the price as being "something everybody can afford"
watcher is taking back their decision to move their entire platform to their streaming platform, instead content will be posted there a month early and ad free, after that the shows will be available on youtube for free as normal
all past episodes and series will remain on youtube
all current patreon members will receive a free subscription code to the platform
full refunds are available for people unhappy with the changes and for patreon members who already bought a subscription
watchers full explanation for making of the platform, quoting straight form the video:
"When we started Watcher in 2020 we wanted to create shows that we were proud of, that we had ownership over and that would provide you the caliber of content that we felt you deserved. However, we were finding it harder and harder to stay relevant to advertisers and the constantly changing YouTube landscape, we faced some incredibly challenging decisions, we didn't want to compromise our content to ensure they met advertising requirements and we definitely did not want to lay people off that have brought Watcher to life behind the scenes, and we didn't want to bring Watcher to a close, which would have happened if we stayed solely on YouTube. That's why we decided to launch the platform so that we as a company could continue, we could pay our staff fairly and not only continue to make great content for you but expand with new shows, new voices, all ad-free. And now with the addition of accessible options, this is a decision that we all believe is the best for Watcher."
please watch the video yourself if you have the time
#hopefully i didnt make any spelling mistakes#please correct me if i did#imo solid apology#good changes#wish they addressed their budgeting but whatever#watcher entertainment#watcher#shane madej#ryan bergara#steven lim#Youtube
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We need to talk about the Archangel Michael.
No, seriously we NEED to talk about Michael because I think she's going to be way more important than we currently think.
(quick side note: I will be jumping between pronouns for everyone involved because I go by vibes and also bc I'm trans and I like doing it. Hopefully it won't be too confusing, but I'll try to make it clear who I am talking about.)
So! Welcome back to Alex's unhinged meta corner. In accordance with the usual essay rules, let's begin with my hypothesis before we go down a long, probably very unhinged spiral.
I completely underestimated how thorough I was going to be, so to not overwhelm everyone with a miles long post, I will be dividing this meta into parts and will post them as I finish them.
A lot of small details have been fluttering around my mind over the last few weeks, and I think I am finally starting to put all the pieces together—and there are a LOT.
Part 1: Season One and Michael's Rank
We know them as one of the three (four—but that's another post) Archangels next to Gabriel and Uriel. While Gabriel's title was that of the Supreme Archangel, Michael's is explicitly stated in episode one of season two as 'duty officer', which, broadly speaking, makes them the Watcher, the one in charge in the case of Gabriel's absence for whatever reason, taking command where he can't; usually that probably meant him simply being busy and not him being unemployed and naked.
Their position is further signified by their ring, which resembles the Ophanim, the many-eyed angel wheels.
They are the one to keep a literal eye on things—they find pictures of Aziraphale and Crowley in S1 in the Observation Files, they watch over the heavenly hosts, they oversee plans, everything.
Michael even takes it a step further and (presumably created) the grapevine with hell, having direct contact to higher ranking demons such as Ligur, most likely also Dagon, and Beelzebub.
This is where we get to my theory: Michael is actively working with demons against both heaven and hell. It doesn't mean that they care about preserving earth, though they might later on, but that whatever plans heaven currently has are to be stopped.
I'm going to take this one step further and say that Michael also knew about Gabriel and Beelzebub, and helped him escape.
Now to the fun part: the evidence!
In season one, they are interested in stopping Crowley and Aziraphale from preventing the apocalypse, but that does not mean that they agree with the plans heaven has for said event—only that they need it to happen so their own agenda can stay on track. She has information she technically shouldn't, like, well, literally all the details about how, when, and what is going to go down
This is due to heaven and hell's general cooperation, which is its own post, but all of that runs through them.
That 'apparently' is doing a lot of heavy lifting here, it's the basic and plausible deniability that's required for them to not be in trouble. She is also in charge of ORGANIZING the troops, fulfilling her role as a navigator.
On top of that, the way she talks to Ligur highly mirrors the way two covert operatives might talk to one another, using phrases like 'our man' and 'working for you'. The mere assumption Michael makes here, that Aziraphale could be a spy, implies that there ARE already spies and angels working for hell.
Consorting with the enemy is allowed as long as it is done within a very specific framework, so Michael and Ligur are free to do so, while Aziraphale and Crowley are working outside of it, which gives heaven & hell the basis to punish them for it.
I think the phrasing of this sentence is also quite interesting.
Not "time to come back to heaven" or anything along the lines that takes Aziraphale's ethereal status into account, no, she simply says he needs to 'choose sides'—and who is to say that he needs to choose heaven or that heaven and hell are the only sides one can choose? Additionally, Michael is the one to bring the holy water to hell while they send one of the Erics, and while the trial as a whole holds a certain tension, there does not seem to be any open animosity between him and the dukes of hell.
In short, Michael is working with hell behind the scenes, likely pursuing their own goals, and standing in opposition to heaven.
Moving on to season two, and here it gets REALLY fun.
Part 1 - Part 2 - Part 3 - Part 4 - Part 5
(hopefully it will just be five. it was supposed to be two. then three. but here we are)
#alex talks good omens#good omens#good omens season 2#go2#good omens meta#archangel michael#archangel uriel#archangel gabriel#good omens michael#crowley#aziraphale#aziracrow#crowley x aziraphale#ineffable husbands#ineffable wives#ineffable spouses#ineffable divorce#the final fifteen#alex's unhinged meta corner
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okay apparently watcher released an apology so here's my thoughts (not asked for):
it was decent, as far as youtube apologies go. I don't understand why people are now saying that people overreacted when we probably wouldn't have gotten an apology if no one said anything? like being critical of things is okay, you know? and in this case it led to the right outcome.
I also don't think it's wrong that people started criticizing the content at watcher. especially after being told they had to pay for it, like you're gonna become more critical of things when you're being asked to pay money for it instead of it being free. and when the product is becoming more expensive to produce but it ends up being less entertaining, that is not a good thing (*cough* ghost files)
watcher 100% needs someone to budget their money, idk who is in charge of it now, but they really don't seem to be doing a good job. production is expensive, but you cannoooot be making projects as if you have a disney/warner brothers type budget when you're an indie studio. even with the streaming service money, this will still be an issue. they're trying to grow their company way too fast, and it will lead to them going under completely if they're not careful. you can't rely on the fans to bail you out when you make bad choices.
also, they need other on-screen talent. like the try guys have been struggling for awhile now, but at least they were smart enough to get people like kwesi and johnny to be new cast members. ryan and shane are 1000% burnt out, they need other talent. I remember they had a show with one of the staff members(?) but it only lasted 3 episodes and then they just stopped it. obv it didn't get as many views, but you need to build an audience and that takes more than 3 episodes to do. if they want to actually produce more content (which would help make more money and make their huge staff actually make sense) they need new people to be on screen. look at dropout/GMM/smosh. bigger casts, way more output. putting steven and andrew as hosts is actually a good choice i think, but sadly they're choosing to have them host one of the most expensive shows to produce. when you're making food content, why are you starting with the pricey international restaurants? start at del taco or something. build a bigger audience to justify the costs. look at eat the menu; the first episode was literally taco bell, and five years later, NOW they're doing fine dining. because they can put more money into it, because they KNOW it's one of their more profitable shows.
idk. acting like there still isn't problems is so strange to me. they apologized, that's a good thing, but it doesn't solve all the issues that have been brought to the forefront as a result of this whole debacle.
#i also recommend cr1tikals video on the subject because he is brutally honest about how much money youtube channels make#i don't completely buy the 'youtube is not giving us enough money woe is me' act#esp w/ patreon and merch and live show profits#idk. remain critical of internet personalities i guess#watcher
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Watcher (and why nothing matters anymore):
So, in case you've been locked away under a proverbial bridge for a few days, Internet personalities Steven Lim, Ryan Bergara, and Shane Madej (known as Watcher) have elected to begin their own streaming service and ditch YouTube.
On the surface, that mightn't even seem like news at all.
After all, this sort of thing seems to happen all the time: The Try Guys left Buzzfeed to create their own company, Rhett and Link took the dive and diversified into paywalled entertainment a few years back with Mythical Society. Both of which however still rely on YouTube itself to generate views on the main channels, which funnel viewers into a FOMO type situation where "you can't miss" a special airing on the app (Mythical Society) or Patreon (Try Guys).
Watcher, in its infinite wisdom (stupidity, carelessness, unparalleled greed - take your pick) has decided that YouTube is pointless, and has moved ALL their content behind a paywall, claiming that the service was amping up to provide "TV quality programming", leaving only old content and the first episodes of the new shows up on their YouTube page as a subtle tease as to what you could get for $6/month.
It's now quite apparent from reading the comments section of their (now infamous) YouTube video, their official subreddit, and the tag on X that the fans were...not thrilled. The fingers began to be pointed within minutes. Name calling soon after. Then this blossomed into dissertations on why this was a horrible idea.
Then we found out that there was no app. Just a website. So you're paying for website access. Not a full blown streaming service to rival Netflix. Oh, and they don't even have their own servers, the videos are hosted by Vimeo. The deeper the comments section dug, the nastier the attacks got. Steven soon became the whipping boy. His past, his interviews, scanned and mercurially dug up for juicy tidbits (although all anyone gleaned from these was he's rich, was born rich, drives a Tesla in LA, likes fancy food, and has friends whom he values who are racist and possibly sexist and will not sever ties with them).
Then came the cries of incongruity. Shane Madej repeatedly said to "Eat the Rich", and here he was schilling for a platform that cost $6 a month. The cries began to pirate all of the new Watcher content because maybe he was under duress and was secretly telling them to do so. Fact is, I don't know if he was or what, but I'm certain he's under contract and wants his job.
Then came the videos from other internet users analyzing the video, and comparing this to the Try Guys situation with Ned a few months back. Both are disasters, each in unique ways with different players, and such like but here's the vast difference: none of this will even matter in a month.
Let me explain: We are in the total free fall stage of Watcher's Internet Streamer Service. What they do in the next 24-48 hours is crucial. If they revert back to their YouTube channel and apologize, they'll be fine. People will probably poke fun at them, but they'll be forgiven, eventually. But if they don't and they keep on, ignoring the fans, dousing the haters, and make it a month, I doubt we will see any resistance outside of a terse article or two.
Why? The collective memory span in this day and age is extremely short, many have likely already made judgment in their head and have passed said judgment. Therefore, they'll avoid the channel, and the streamer and will be blissfully unaware of any changes. Those who have joined up and paid will remain members, and those who have elected to remain subscribed will likely remain so and will watch the free content until they can afford the $6/month.
The thing is like it or hate it, if they decide to do nothing and ignore the public at large, they most likely will be fine. Maybe they will not have the hugest subscriber base, but people will forget about this. Something else major that is more salacious will spring up in the months ahead. Will there be lingering anger? Sure, but like I said before, these people have already passed judgment so they're already gone.
In an era of "nothing fucking matters" when your choices are sometimes entirely out of your direct control and are (at best) two sides of the same coin, it should be of absolutely no surprise to anyone that there is a fairly good possibility even after all that has transpired that nothing bad will happen. Lest we forget that old adage: "there is no such thing as bad PR".
Personally, I feel $6 is a tad much for a non-app based web streamer with little to no content. It was disingenuous to announce its launch internationally where even more people can't afford it, and some can't even view it. Steven wasn't upfront with who was in charge and now it really does seem like he's using the subscriptions to fund his international gallivanting. It's clear nobody wanted TV-show quality Ghost Files to take place in another country, nor did they want an old show revived with votes when you pay the first month's dues. They say it's a case of Watcher "not reading the room".
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AHEM!!! IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR ANOTHER GHOST HUNTING SHOW AFTER THE WATCHER FUMBLE- LOOK UP PROJECT FEAR!!!
Originally known as the TV show Destination Fear, their show was cancelled (likely due to 'competing' with shows like Ghost Adventures) and decided to move to YouTube, where they have more creative freedom and can make longer episodes.
They are admittedly nowhere near as chaotic- they're all believers and take their job seriously, but they have their own kind of humor when they're not sleeping alone in a pitch black orphanage hallway that I really vibe with. Super high quality, three seasons of content (so far! S4 is in filming in the UK!!!) and some crazy cool evidence. I watched two videos and immediately fell in love with Dakota, Alex, Tanner and Chelsea. Please give them a chance if you're looking for a new ghost hunting channel that is FREE!
#kennacanthink#watcher#ryan bergara#shane madej#steven lim#project fear#project fear supremacy guys#they are so silly if you like ghost files you would probably like project fear
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My dream party for a Watcher DnD podcast:
Steven Lim. This man commits to the bit on a level that I don't think I'll ever be able to comprehend. He is EVERYTHING. The amount of chaotic energy he brings to the Watcher Cinematic Universe is incredible and watching him play DnD again would probably mend every single piece of my little rotten soul.
Ryan Bergara. I know, Ryan would OBVIOUSLY be in the party if they made a show, but WE NEED TO HIGHLIGHT HOW AWESOME HE IS. Again, incredibly chaotic energy, committing to the bit, lots of good vibes, the whole shebang. But what I'd be most excited for would be for Ryan to play in a long term campaign and start going full conspiracy theorist with the lore. It would be incredible.
Katie Leblanc. Just watch her as Quezza in Sdndnd. That's all. She's so wonderful.
Joyce Louis-Jean. JOYCE. IS. EVERYTHING. She's incredibly funny, charming, and would create the most kickass PCs, I can feel it in my BONES. I support Joyce rights and Joyce wrongs, and would be thrilled to see both unfold in a campaign.
Ricky Wang. I think Ricky would be an INCREDIBLE person to have at the table. Sure, he isn't as openly chaotic as Steven / Shane / Ryan, but he brings this subtle, supportive energy to the shows he's on. He has such a wonderful presence, and I feel like he'd be an incredible team player. Plus, he's got a bit of a chaotic streak too. We've seen how excited he got about the potential of committing arson on that one ph episode.
"But Boog, where is Shane?"
Oh, you silly silly booger, Shane would be the DM! After seeing his storytelling prowess in the hot daga / puppet history / sdndnd, I would be absolutely THRILLED to see a patented Shane Madej™ homebrew world. Can you IMAGINE the lore he'd create??? The NPCs???
Alternatively, if Shane doesn't DM, I think Brennan Lee Mulligan would be a great fit to play with the Watcher crew. However, it would also be cool to see Brennan as a player in the campaign.
A few other people I think would be incredible for the Watcher crew to play with (feel free to add on to the list):
Anyone from the D20 gang (Zac Oyama, Lou Wilson, Emily Axford... etc), any of the Try Guys, Brittany Broski, Matt Mercer (I just think it would be silly), Garrett Watts, Sara Rubin...
#watcher#sdndnd#all hail the watcher#watcher entertainment#shane madej#ryan bergara#steven lim#katie leblanc#joyce louis jean#ricky wang#d20#puppet history#ghost files
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