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nalyra-dreaming · 3 months

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Pre season 2 rant - heavy on sarcasm!

This is the... well by now somewhat meditated on rant I promised a while ago. It has a lot of cussing, so be warned.

It is a… summary comment about some views I‘ve seen around, from “bad writing“ to the “abuse“ and other things. Oh, and it's about the "lying" subject. With receipts!

I‘m getting this out of my system before season 2 hits, and before more of the press leading up to it is released, because cast, crew and writers as well as the show have given us all of it already and, tbh, if I‘m going to see anyone scream “bad writing“ or “Louis being made a liar or the memories revisited/changed is racism“ when the changes will hit I‘m just gonna block you.

Fair warning.

This is long… so under the cut.

This show has made color-conscious choices. Brilliantly so. They also have an astonishing meta level.

And what we saw was not the truth.

That much is clear now. HAS ACTUALLY BEEN CLEAR FROM THE END OF SEASON 1 ON.

Jacob has said at the TCA panel that Louis is trying to regain his true memories.

Here is a reminder of some key statements by cast and crew:

Here are interviews and statements by Assad and Jacob and Sam and Rolin and the writers & producers that what we have seen was not the (whole) truth, that Louis’ tale has been “tinkered” with, influenced.

I'm heroically refraining from adding the gifs of Rolin and his statement again. Which are from the episode insider… and remember when that aired?! Yeah… 😒

But I've seen things recently that make me want to pull my hair out, to be frank. For example this, behind the link:

...Like, not making him a whole flat ass liar is actually the point, guys. And no it does not undermine the story....

As the writers said:

I mean, I get it to an extent. It's becoming clearer and clearer that the show some people made up in their heads is not the one they'll be getting. (We've been trying to tell them, but hey.)

Yeah.... That.

Unfortunately @blackgirlasis has blocked me, (and I have returned the favor now that I noticed), we only discussed something recently, but I think the reason might have been after I posted that video, in which it is literally said that "not everything Louis says is a lie", which, given her statements here might speak for itself, especially this part of that statement:

"It is actually ACTIVELY harmful to perpetuate the idea that the Black characters aren't to be trusted with the narrative and that we need Lestat to come through with the honest accounting."

You know, I would actually agree! Which is also why I always emphasized that we did not get the WHOLE truth. I also kept more than hinting at the fact that Armand is, well Armand.

BUT - and here it gets interesting - why is JACOB's - a BLACK man's - statement discarded? Why do they do not want to hear it that Louis does, in fact, lie? And, just to be clear - I do not NEED Louis to lie, nor be proven a liar, and I think the show will do its damndest to explain via the "tinkering" that Armand did. They will give some of the blame to Armand.

But to flip one's shit over argumentation that the MAIN CHARACTER, a BLACK MAN has already stated... that is what I find interesting.

Like, why do you* (*generally spoken, not her especially) accuse people of racism over this, when HE has already said that Louis does, indeed, lie. Why is he not actually listened to? I don't get that. Why is agency taken away from a living, breathing person to give it to a fictional character? Why is his statement that "not all representation needs to be healthy representation" not kept in mind?

Louis is Louis. Louis being color-consciously handled didn't "change the character an awful lot".

JACOB said that. Here. Interestingly enough in a comment about the racial consideration the show does(!).

Louis is NOT a whole other character despite the changes, and the twists that will happen in season 2 were always set to come, as the friggin' video of BEFORE the show aired is proof of. They talked about all that. They know it didn't all happen as shown. They knew Louis did lie. But NOT about everything.

They also knew that some of the scenes did not happen (at least as shown). And now... "it’s clear that Louis is somebody hugely angry with a man he loved deeply and now presents them as a monster…" Also Jacob Anderson.

Presents. Them. As. A. Monster.

Bailey Bass said in the SDCC interview, that it is not clear who is the "villain here" in various scenes, interestingly enough, because the dynamic keeps changing. Which of course was after they shot a myriad of scenes that would not make it into the final s1 cut. Again: why is she not listened to? Why do you take her agency away to give it to a fictional character?

And I'm not even starting on the others. Sam. Rolin. The writers.

Also, re the abuse and scenes being revisited. Again, screenshot as example:

There is nothing simple about this show. Especially that scene.

BUT the show knows what it‘s doing! I'm not going to rehash all that here now, here are links on that.

AND THE WRITERS SAYING IT WILL BE REVISITED... is from December 21, 2022.

DECEMBER 22.

A revisit and a change of that scene will not be bad writing. (Or tasteless.) They already DID so in the last episode of season 1, continuing that will simply fall into line with what we have already been given. That's not bad writing. That's just the show, and there's people who just did not want to examine that.

Because it will be echoed, and it will serve a purpose.

I know the show did the meta level of patriarchal domestic abuse, but for fuck‘s sake, the story itself is about vampires struggling, and Louis is struggling.

The show has a meta level of abuse, and patriarchy, and recognizing is valid and the meta discussions are too.

But Louis is not chained to his coffin guys, he could have left, and a fight which shows off power discrepancies within the show story line is not automatically domestic abuse.

*slow clap*

No-one wants this to happen for the sake of "redeeming" Lestat. Because he does not need that redemption. They're all murderers and monsters.

They kill. For a living. LITERALLY.

THEY ARE VAMPIRES It's not about vampires trying to find their humanity.

It's about vampires trying to find a way to live with themselves, because they are, indeed, monsters.

Doubting the narrative which was TORN APART WITHIN THE SHOW is not the same as bad writing or racism FFS, nor is actually looking at what we're given - and knowing the fucking, 50 year old books. And recognizing the hints and parallels.

I have also seen the take that Lestat isolated Louis... and like, did we watch the same show? You know, even with the vampirism (which, of course™, could not free Louis as promised)...

Months of flirting openly in NOLA, public wooing. DECADES LIVING IN NOLA. Operas. Restaurants. Family dinners. (And Louis stopping Lestat there, AS a mortal...) Cleaning the cribs, years of "human entanglement" because Louis wanted it.... Banjo barbecues, political influence, wakes... Everybody knew.

(Like, I could pull up gifs here.)

"Isolation". Right. It has nothing, at all, to do with the Rite of Passage, or Louis' depression.

Of course not.

I mean, Jacob says that Louis is very depressed during the time leading up to the fight, and his and Sam's discussion here is interesting as well, but hey, I mean, why listen to the actual black actor, right.

As a last thing.

Yeah. Tell me you know nothing about the books without telling me you know nothing about the books.

And, as a note, context is important if you pull up other scenes from the VC.

Welcome to the fucking Vampire Chronicles.

Anyone expecting big bad patriarchal abuser Lestat is not going to have a good time.

And honestly, to those: don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Good riddance - and BON VOYAGE

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nothing-but-paisley · 8 months

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Thinking about Armand's relationship with food and sustenance.

Much of his trauma relates to hunger--watching monks slowly starve in the monastery knowing that would be his fate one day, then being starved by his captors as a human AND as a vampire. Finally he inflicts this suffering on weaker vampires.

The first thing Marius does is feed him. Marius later becomes a literal source of nourishment by feeding Armand his blood, which he compares to honey. Armand often describes the lavish, abundant food at the palazzo. It's easy to see how he would grow to associate food and love.

That's especially interesting in light of his treatment of Daniel. When they first meet, he pulls his go-to coven master move (lock up+starve). A major turning point in the relationship happens when Armand orders everything on the menu for Daniel at the Copley. An abundance of food reflects emotion. It's how Armand expresses care.

On the night of the first blood exchange, Armand declares his love by feeding and feeding from Daniel. (Feeding is also an act of ownership: "you are mine, beautiful boy.")

#the vampire chronicles #armand x daniel #devil's minion #armandaniel #vc #vc meta #the vampire armand #armand x marius #Don't even get me started on Riccardo #I WILL start sobbing in this Chili's #I didn't get into Denis but there's some interesting fucked up food stuff going on there too

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apoptoses · 2 months

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today i keep thinking about the line at the end of qotd where lestat is describing the other vampires at night island, and says 'daniel, who liked to let the hunger build'

and of course you can take lestat at his word, that daniel is into some kind of vampire hunger edging, but also part of me wonders if that isn't the vampire ND behavior (or whatever you feel he had going on) kicking in already. that he's too fascinated with talking to khayman and listening to music with his new senses to notice his hunger cues.

and maybe his 'madness' wasn't a sudden thing but an inherent part of him, something that actually existed when he was mortal and struggling to take care of himself and was actually exacerbated by his needs changing once he was turned. becoming a vampire can heal and enhance the body but i always wonder to what extent it magnifies what's already there in the mind. or is it a nature vs nuture thing- if you struggle with routine as a mortal, does it get worse when you become a vampire who no longer needs to eat on a fixed daily schedule, or to bathe or do any of the little routines society expects? was daniel's need for armand to shower him and shave him just an exhaustion thing, or was it part of who he was, and did vampirism magnify that trait and lead him to 'let the hunger build'? idk i just wonder about it!

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leslutdepointedulac · 2 months

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Okay. I think enough time has passed. I'm ready to confront this.

I finished re-reading IWTV a few days ago now, and this paragraph fucked me up then, and continues to fuck me up now 🙃

Armand obviously knew what was going to happen. He knew that the theatre vampires were going to be coming for Claudia that very same night. He essentially warns Louis about what's to come.

"Louis, come with me tonight," he whispered suddenly, with an urgent inflection.

Armand is desperate to get Louis to go with him there and then, so that he doesn't get caught up in the theatre vampire's 'business', so to speak. It's got nothing to do with Louis, he doesn't need to be punished, as far as Armand's concerned.

When Louis rejects this, and says he can't go with him tonight, there's not really anything Armand can do, but to just accept that that's how it's going to be. He doesn't want Louis getting caught up in the situation, but he can't say anything more, unless he gives himself and his involvement away.

I watched him turn away and look at the dark night sky. He appeared to sigh, but I didn't hear it.

For only a moment I hesitated, mocked by the pounding of my heart.

It's as if, deep, deep down, Louis knows there's something wrong. He knows something's coming, and that whatever it is, it can't be any good. And I think he knows Armand has something to do with it.

But Louis' blinded by his love for Armand, and Armand's love for him. He's blinded by the possibilities Armand could give him, and any further knowledge he may have to share.

Louis doesn't want to face the truth. He's had one not so great experience in love before, and he's not willing to let that happen again, even if that just means being in denial about it. He so desperately wants to believe Armand has his best interests at heart, and that there's no possible chance that he could ever have any malicious intentions, let alone follow through with them.

He's clinging onto hope.

But ultimately, that delusional hope ends with Claudia dead, when Louis should've just listened to her warnings.

Of course, Louis isn't entirely responsible. Armand already had Louis, he didn't need to worry about Claudia anymore. Louis literally even says so himself. He tells Armand he already has him. And I know that's not the only reason for Claudia's death, there's so much more to it than that, but it was apart of it.

I think either way, Claudia was probably going to end up dead, but more could've been done to prevent it. But the blatently obvious warning signs were ignored, along with Armand's desperate need to have Louis.

#i talked about this on the gc when i was reading it #but i need to let it out here too #i was too sad about it at the time (i still am lbr)#but like i said i'm ready to traumatise myself with it again now 🙃#i love louis/armand but goddamn #does this section fuck me up #louis de pointe du lac #armand #claudia #loumand #interview with the vampire #iwtv #vampire chronicles #tvc #vc meta #my vampire chronicles

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nightcolorz · 7 months

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Unhinged Sybelle and Benji tangent (cw references to abuse csa trauma etc)

yeah so Marius’s turning of Benji and Sybelle isn’t about whether or not that was the right decision to make and isn’t made better by their contentment living as vampires in late canon. Benji and Sybelle’s relatively happy lives as vampires are irrelevant to me. The cruelty of how he did it is made worse by the hypocritical nature of turning a kid into a vampire after so firmly insisting that turning children is morally abhorrent and smth he should’ve never done, yeah, but that’s only a small part of it.

It was so awful and upsetting to me bcus of the deliberate stripping of Armand’s agency. See, we have a whole book where Armand tells the story of how throughout his entire life and childhood he was forced into the role of submissiveness and/or dependency. whether that be his childhood religious devotion that would eventually lead to his being buried alive for God or being sold into sexual slavery or Marius’s mentorship of him that ultimately intended to teach him to stay loyal and dependent on Marius’s authority to Marius’s relationship with him sexual and otherwise to the cult indoctrination, up until Lestat comes along and tilts his own view of submission and devotion as his only way to survive and function in the world onto its head.

He gives him a theater and then he gives him Louis. Armand floats around, tries to find purpose without devotion through using Louis and Daniel as tools to understanding the modern age. The modern age to Armand is possibility and independence, things he’s never had so much access to and doesn’t know exactly how to apply to himself until the devils minion chapter when he’s like ah ok I get it, life without devotion is something I’ve always been familiar with—it’s what Marius taught me! I Am The Master now with my excessive indulgence and my Boy and my sea side paradise.

But Armand is a Void™️ with no concept of self besides a collection of concepts and experiences and people he’s been exposed to throughout his existence, so rlly he’s kind of a fraud. Internally he’s still a saint who yearns for a God to follow, he’s no Marius, and this all comes to a head in Memnoch the devil when he throws himself into the sun for Jesus etc. and so TVA Armand is mixed the fuck up, he’s lost everything he’s been building for himself, he’s like an open wound, like red and gold sand art shaken around until it’s sludges of brown.

Armand believes himself to have no coherent narrative of a life, no coherent and consistent sense of self, just a collection of unrelated sequences that he draws from to occasionally preform personhood, and at the beginning of TVA he is very much just that. No thoughts only colors and pain. But he’s trying to rebuild himself as best he can, he has these young humans who he’s caring for, and through caring Armand finds meaning.

These humans are very much reflections of himself, or who he used to be, and seeing a personhood reflected back at him through these two gives him insight into his own value as an individual, as someone who is inherently worthy of having a life. So with Benji and Sybelle he tries to rebuild his own sense of personhood by giving them what he would want in there place. The conclusion he reaches at the end of his story to David is that after everything ultimately he is learning and rebuilding, gaining fulfillment and individuality he’s never had before through his empathy and care for these two people in his life. Benji and Sybelle are representative of Armand’s healing process!!! They mirror him bcus they are him!! He’s literally nurturing his inner child!! And with that there comes self care and self love etc etc. but then the book doesn’t end!!

Then after all that trauma and all that healing everything that Armand was tenderly attempting to build for his new life is stripped away ! When Marius turns Benji and Sybelle it doesn’t matttttter that they like being vampires. What matters is that when Armand finally gained agency and individuality Marius decided to take that from him! Marius decided that he actually knew better then Armand, and if Armand would just allow him to do what’s best for him then everything would be so much better and so much easier. And when Armand starts sobbing and screaming and fighting him that’s just justification to Marius that Armand isn’t capable of independence or self sufficiency, that he’s a child throwing a tantrum who can’t make his own decisions, that he should just be dependent on Marius like he used to be and trust that other people know what’s best for him.

That’s why it’s so tragic! That’s why it’s so frustrating and so sad. Armand was on the road to healing but then Marius stormed in like the symbolic representation of his past telling him that no matter what he does or the progress he makes he’s still Armand in the catacombs, Amadeo on the red sheets, Andrei waiting to be buried alive. So I don’t really give af if ultimately Benji and Sybelle are fine! It’s great that despite being a child vampire Benji is able to function independently and contently as an adult with minimal body dysmorphia and existential dread, but you know who’s not able to do that? Armand 😭😭

#tvc #the vampire chronicles #vampire chronicles #vc #armand #interview with the vampire #iwtv #the vampire armand #benji mahmoud #sybelle tvc #Tvc meta #iwtv meta #VC meta #armand le russe #armand iwtv #armand vc #This was meant to be like a paragraph of rambling wtf happened #Sorry if my tone comes off as condescending I’m just very excited about armand #And I don’t agree with the assertion that Benji and sybelle’s good lives as vampires diminish the impact of their turning

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calipsan · 3 months

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Okay Essay Coming:

I think one of the most central theses of Vampire Chronicles is that people (or vampires) destroy what the want in the (often selfish) pursuit of that desire. In IWTV, Lestat makes Louis because he wants companionship. Louis tells us that it’s because of his house and money, BUT from later context it’s clear that Lestat falls in love with Louis. Mortal Louis also falls in love with the IDEA of Lestat, and says that meeting him was the most significant moment of his mortal life. However, that infatuation pales in comparison to the world that is opened to him when he becomes a vampire. So, in turning Louis, Lestat destroys the love and fascination Louis had for Lestat in the first place.

Then we have Claudia who Lestat makes to keep Louis with him, to make them a family, and honestly this works out pretty well, but eventually Claudia’s hatred for Lestat leads to the family being destroyed. Again, what Lestat sought (family and companionship) was destroyed by the very person he made to accomplish that.

Then we have Armand first persuading Louis with the mind gift to turn Madeleine and then killing Claudia in order to bring Louis to him because he loves him. Those acts push Louis further from him and destroy the passion Louis had. Armand loves the mortal aspect of Louis; Louis claims that dies when he makes Madeleine, and then Armand is unable to reawaken Louis’ passion and love even after they’re together for many, many years becauase he states that died with Claudia.

Finally at the end of the story, Louis hopes to have convinced Daniel about the evil nature of vampires but instead all he has done is make Daniel want to be a vampire. Daniel believes that if he were to become a vampire he could make it all work out. We’re led to believe, and indeed, it comes true, that Daniel would not be able to be happy as a vampire just as Louis isn’t happy.

In TotBT, Lestat loves David, wants to make him a vampire, but David denies him. When Lestat becomes a mortal man, he wants to have sex with David, but David still denies him, saying that going to bed with Lestat mortal body would bring back too many painful memories of his own youth. Once Lestat turns David into a vampire, once he finally gets his wish, he finds that David is no longer the man he loved. The very act of turning him into a vampire makes him different. And though David says that he did in fact want Lestat to turn him and was glad that Lestat forced him so that the decision was taken out of his hands, Lestat still does not seem happy with David. He doesn’t like the fact that David is powerful and would challenge his authority in Rue Royale.

We have Gretchen who loves Lestat in part because of his unusual demeanor. He tells her all about himself and she seems to believe him and accept him. Then when he returns to her in his true vampire shape, she is terrified and pushes him away.

This theme also comes up in Blood and Gold. In pursuing Pandora, Marius pushes away Bianca, the person with whom he’d had an admittedly happier relationship. Then, because of his grief over her leaving, he misses the letter that Pandora left for him which could have brought them back together for good.

I haven’t reread the rest of the books so I can’t think of all the details of them, but of course we have Gabrielle and Claudia, both made by Lestat because he loves them, and he loses them both. We have Armand turning Daniel and that changing their relationship.

This message, I think, is that when we seek something blindly, we will often destroy our chance of ever reaching it, and when we are looking in on a life we think we want, once we have that life it will never be what we expected.

#vc meta #interview with the vampire #vampire chronicles #lestat de lioncourt #louis de pointe du lac

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desertfangs · 4 months

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When are we going to talk about the fact that Armand bought Daniel an honest to goodness cloak because with his "twentieth century height" he could carry it off?? What the hell kind of events and parties were they going to where Daniel could wear a freaking cloak and not look completely out of place?

#Daniel Molloy #Armand #Devil's Minion #armand/daniel #daniel/armand #vc meta #vc #vampire chronicles #queen of the damned

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nalyra-dreaming · 1 year

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The lovely @alcassin dug out a post on reddit (and kindly allowed me to share it, TY dear) in regards to what Lestat screams about after the chess game in episode 6, which I for one had thought were probably... curses. Or cursing. Nothing too bad, but just... temper tantrum level curses.

But... no?!

And I find that hugely interesting, and it changes the whole end scene a bit for me, because this is the actual scene there:

Louis (voiceover): She was right.

Lestat: Spoiled, selfish, thankless.

Louis: It was inevitable.

Lestat: Heedless, disagreeable, obnoxious, repellent, unkind, spoiled to the core!

( Shouting in French )

Louis: We were going to kill Lestat.

Now we know that this statement was a deliberate one, to Daniel. He repeats it after, to make sure the impact lands.

That also means that the last voice over part was in all likelihood not his thoughts in that moment, but a deliberate comment to lead over to this statement.

And ... these words deflect. Try to brush away that outburst, which Louis does not address further. Or cares to translate.

Inevitable? .... Why? Louis can understand Lestat after all. So why should the outburst seem to make it inevitable? Why should it lead to the "killing remark"?

Lestat... Lestat is addressing the elephant in the room there.

Namely that Claudia is both child and adult. Forever. And that this was Louis' choice.

And that they have failed her in their parenting.

(And we have seen throughout episode 4 and 5 that Louis had a habit of interfering with Lestat's parenting, and would argue about it behind closed doors, which is what the child rearing and compromise comment points to. Whether he was right to do so or not is not important here imho, only that it was addressed and what became of it all later.)

It is no wonder that Louis deflects from that, and doesn't "translate" it for Daniel. This is not something he likes to dwell on after all, even though he probably feels this guilt keenly.

But to admit that Lestat, temper-tantrum or not, was actually right there?

Because... even if the past Louis might not have known it back then - but the issues with Claudia's state of being, and the lack of trust in her parents, and the... lack of abilities and awareness in regards to other vampires, the lack of strength, and the spite (as Lestat calls it) - that is something that modern Louis is all too aware of will be part of her downfall.

Lestat screams at Louis there, about the problem in regards to Claudia (given, the screaming itself is... well, not helpful at all^^), and Louis... turns the radio louder. Because he doesn't want to hear it, or discuss it. Both literally, and figuratively.

And he still doesn't want to dwell on that in modern Dubai.

Because it is inevitable because Claudia was who she was, then. And because Lestat was who he was, then. And because Louis was who he was back then.

It was inevitable.

But not because of what Louis is trying to present as reasoning. (And I hope/bet Daniel will still break open that part of the tale, too.)

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greedandenby · 1 year

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Armand asking Daniel to ask him if it was raining that night in Paris (The Devil's Minion) VS. Daniel asking Louis if it rained that night in the bayou (IWTV s01ep7).

Nicely done, writers, nicely done!

#interview with the vampire #iwtv #vampire chronicles #vc meta #iwtv meta #daniel molloy #armand #louis de pointe du lac

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apoptoses · 1 month

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🚨 what do you think is the best and worst thing Armand ever did?

Oh anon strap in, this is gonna get heavy.

Disclaimer: this is my personal read, my own meta, everyone else is entitled to their own takes etc etc

We're gonna start with the worst: everything he did with Louis in iwtv.

Let me explain.

Something that is very common for survivors of trauma that was more psychological in nature and required betraying oneself in order to stay safe is to enter the fawn response. Aka people pleasing. Someone who has learned that they have to pretend to be someone else in order to keep others around them happy and keep themselves safe doesn't just shake that when the threat has ended. They then go on to feel as if they must do that in all future relationships in order to be loved and cared for, and if this goes unchecked then it can manifest into some really damaging behavior.

Things like lying about personal beliefs in order to tell the desired companion what the traumatized person thinks they want to hear, trying to control outcomes of certain situations in order for things to happen that they think will keep the desired companion with them. Someone who is people pleasing ends up saying "Yes I love the thing that you love" to one person, while saying deep down (or to another person) "I actually hate this thing so much".

And while it's understandable why someone who is people pleasing believes they have to act that way, it leads to their companion feeling manipulated when they find out that all the things that were said and done to 'please' them were untrue or done simply to control the situation and keep them around.

(And if it gets really out of control, subconscious behavior can become conscious acts of manipulation)

So with Louis we meet an Armand who says that he cares nothing for god, that if he met a mortal who inspired a lust for life in him once again he would turn that mortal immediately, that he would have turned Madeline himself. As readers we find out this isn't true later, that Armand struggles with his faith, that Armand would rather suffer anything than turn someone else into a vampire. But if we look at his words from a perspective of someone in a fawn response, he's saying those things because he believes that's what Louis needs to hear in order to accept his love and love him back.

And in more overt ways he forces Louis' hand with Madeline by using his influence, because Armand has decided it would be 'good' for Louis to turn her, that this will help him accept the loss of Claudia and come be with him. It's an act of controlling the situation to try to control for Armand's desired outcome (Louis loves me and will leave Claudia behind for me) but he's doing it under the people pleasing lie of 'this is what Louis needs, this is what will make him happy' when really it's about what will make Armand happy and safe. In that act subconscious fawning has become conscious manipulation.

While Armand's emotional detachment and lack of reaction to the burning of the theater and death of Denis is in many ways related to his self-admitted inability to feel anything at that time, there's also an aspect of fawning there: in order to people please one cannot offer their real feelings for fear of upsetting the companion. So really it just leads this situation where Louis doesn't know how Armand really feels about anything. He never shows Louis a moment of hurt or anger or outage, which we readers know he is capable of, because in order to feel safe and continue to 'please' he cannot let himself feel anything at all except that which his companion feels.

And that's why their relationship crumbles, because Louis is right: they cannot offer each other real love because Louis is mired in grief and Armand is incapable of being fully honest. He can't cultivate a true sense of self and show Louis that self because he's too swept in fawning for him and 'pleasing' him. Even when he and Louis break up he doesn't show his hurt, doesn't articulate having felt neglected. He just walks away, holds it all in, and fawns away his own feelings.

So that's why I think the best thing he did was that moment of sincerity with Daniel right before he turned him: admitting that he felt like a coward, and that he loved Daniel far too much to let him die.

In his explorations with Daniel Armand stops pleasing and swings to far other end of the spectrum for a time: he is so utterly absorbed in exploring the world and figuring out who he is and how he fits in that at times he doesn't consider Daniel's feelings much at all. But by the end of things when the running begins, he doesn't chase Daniel until Daniel calls for him. He becomes honest about his feelings and desires, despite the layers of shame he's heaped upon them. He stops detaching and fawning and gets real.

Which in the end is the key to him re-uniting with Louis and building a healthier relationship, creating his own home, opening the door to future reconciliation with Marius and having Daniel move back in with him. Armand had to learn to be himself fearlessly so that he would have genuine love to give.

#pls i am not an armand/louis hater at all don't take it that way lmao #and i don't believe his relationship with daniel was 100% healthy either #it's just that he hits rock bottom on both ends of the spectrum with excessive fawning and excessive selfishness #before he can find his way to a middle ground and honesty #and that's growth baby!!!#i think this is why in the vampire companion anne said armand was a good person with daniel #because by daniel's turning he's learned to stop chasing and manipulating and fawning and be genuine instead #and trinity gate couldn't exist if that arc never happened #apoptoses answers #vc meta

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leslutdepointedulac · 1 month

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Did Nicki really love Lestat?

I feel like there's sometimes a question in this fandom as to whether or not Nicki truly loved Lestat, or if it was all a 'ruse' of sorts. Some people will say that there was no love there, either at points, or just overall. But personally, I'm inclined to disagree. The way I see it, Nicki did genuinely love Lestat, especially at the beginning of their relationship.

They knew each other as children and, to an extent, they grew up together. This already puts them in a relatively close relationship with each other. This relationship between them starts out as just a friendship, but of course this evolves into something more.

When Nicki presents Lestat with the cloak, it's him who is acting rather flirty towards Lestat, not the other way around with him leaning into him and saying

"Only the impossible can do the impossible."

A week later when they're in the room at the inn, Nicki is the one who leans in and initiates that first show of intimacy, by kissing Lestat. Granted they were drunk at the time, but Nicki doesn't give me the impression he goes around kissing just anyone, even while intoxicated. I think the fact that they were drunk was just the perfect excuse/opportunity for Nicki to act on his feelings towards Lestat.

Further down the line, when they're in Paris - and at this point have been together for several months - Lestat returns to the theatre after his 'disappearance'. One of the first things the other actors do when Lestat initially arrives, is call Nicki to tell him that Lestat is back. And once he turns up to join the others in greeting Lestat, the actors immediately part to make way for Nicki to come through. I think they all knew there was a deeper level of connection between them. They share a very long and tender moment together, which the troupe allows without disturbance. Personally, I see that hug between them as coming from a place of love, heartbreak that they had been separated, and relief that they're back together again. Yes, Nicki had previously been, and still was angry and hurt that Lestat had supposedly left him, and without any warning. Especially considering Lestat was - as far as everyone else was concerned - perfectly fine during that time, only for him to turn up out of the blue with little to no explanation as to his whereabouts. I think Nicki's anger at this was partially down to Nicki being terrified at the thought he had lost his lover, and he couldn't hold his upset in.

Skipping forward to Nicki's turning, in my opinion, his very recently experienced trauma, combined with his already fragile mental state, were both amped up x100 by said turning.

The way I see it, Nicki got overwhelmed by the recent events and his mental condition clouded his mind causing him to lash out at the one person who he loved the most. Lestat. The reasoning for him lashing out at Lestat specifically, being because he was so immensely hurt by Lestat's disappearance, with him returning acting as though nothing had happened. This understandably angered Nicki, and mixed with his strong feelings for Lestat, it all bubbled up and exploded in their faces.

I think Nicki said what he said to Lestat during their last proper interaction, because he was deeply hurt and quite frankly, he just wasn't well. I don't think he was seeing/thinking clearly, and was probably also confused by the very sudden and drastic changes in his life. This led to him taking it all out on Lestat out of a need to blame someone for everything that had happened. Lestat just so happened to be the easiest and most obvious target for Nicki to let his anger out on.

Eleni tells Lestat in her letters to him, that even the mention of his name in Nicki's presence is enough to send Nicki over the edge. But I think this was down to his mental instability, along with his lingering hurt that had festered in his mind for so many years at that point; he wasn't in his right mind and so wasn't able to give appropriate reactions to his former lover.

Before Nicki goes into the fire, he gives his violin to Eleni, with the instruction to send it to Lestat. He also says how he had originally intended to give it to him the last time they saw each other, before Lestat left Paris. In my opinion, I don't see why Nicki would've had his violin that Lestat bought him, sent to Lestat, right before taking his own life. And there is a chance that he did this with malicious intent, as a way to taunt Lestat, but in my mind, I feel as though there was some lingering care left for him. I don't know that there was any love remaining on Nicki's part, I'll be honest, but I do there was some semblance of care left in him. I don't think this is something Nicki would admit to anyone, even himself, and I also don't know that he was aware of this - that it was more of a subconscious feeling. But I still think, regardless, there was something still in Nicki that cared even just a little bit for Lestat, albeit buried beneath the darkness in his mind.

Re: Nicki's interest in the violin and his comment about wanting to 'go down' in Paris, I think his initial interest in the violin was genuine. But when people around him *cough his father cough* told him to abandon the idea, that's when it turned into a thing of spite. However, I do believe there was still an honest love for playing. Even after Nicki had gone mad, playing the violin was something he turned to as a source of familiar comfort through his dark times.

As for Paris, it was Nicki's idea in the first place for both him and Lestat to run off (although, yes, it was more of a joke when he said it.) But I think he genuinely wanted him and Lestat to get away from the village that had been suffocating them both for so many years. When Nicki said he wanted them to 'go down', I think that was also as a result of his unstable mind, and his hurt at the recent events being taken out on Lestat. There may very well have been elements of truth in what he said, but overall, I think it's just yet another example of his inability to contain his pain.

Of course, none of this excuses the way Nicki treated Lestat in the end, but I think to simply say it was all because he didn't love Lestat is missing out on taking a deeper look into the reasons why he did and said those things. To denounce the love Nicki felt for Lestat seems unfair to me given his situation.

#this is something i've thought about an awful lot #can you tell i this is something that plagues my mind lmfao #this is the result of my moping over nickistat #lestat de lioncourt #nicolas de lenfent #nickistat #the vampire lestat #tvl #vampire chronicles #tvc #vc meta #my vampire chronicles

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