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eisfreiesspeiseeis · 2 months

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My Wakfu Season 4 Head Canon / Theory / Manic ramblings

I don't know if someone else already made a post about this, if yes, please direct me to it, anyway strap in:

So, what has always bothered me about the MMO Eliotropes was their weird skin tone and markings.

Remember, they were added to the game(s) before season 3 and the OVA were even out and all we knew about them was this blurb:

Having appeared via a freak accident, Eliotropes are but mirror images of their creator, the King-God.

I don't know wether this was confirmed back then, but we all just accepted that Yugo was the King-God. He was the King of the Eliatropes, he was a demigod, it made sense. We just didn't know what exactly this accident was yet. And that was the first time I got way too hung up on their skin color. (Some people might claim they don't see color, but not me.) I came up with 2 explanations: Explanation 1: This was how Yugos God-King-Form would look like

So in Season 2, when Qilby gets the Eliacube, his skin color changes and he gets these black markings;

While Yugo just gets these glowing tattoos in his "Eaxalted" form, which do, however, look kinda similar. Also during his transformation, Qilby's tats would glow at first, just like Yugo's, before turning black.

This let me to assume (all these years ago) that Qilby's transformation (which the Wiki calls "Lobotimized" for some reason) was the more evolved form of Yugo's. I basically tought while Yugo just unlocked Super Saiyan, Qilby could go Super Saiyan 2. And at some point, Yugo would archieve a similar form too, which would be when he became the God-King, and that was why the Eliotropes all had white skin and blue markings. (I just thought Yugos tats would turn blue instead of black because ykno, color schemes and stuff.)

Also there was this Krosmaster Mini called Yugo unleashed, so I thought this was the direction they were going:

Explanation 2: Their skin markings look like Adamai's

You know, this guy. With the white skin / scales and the blue markings.

In hindsight the easier explanation. Adamai is Yugo's twin brother, so it would make sense if the Eliotropes had an imprint of Adamai. Or maybe Adamai helped in whatever accident created the Eliotropes. The brothers already combined their powers a few times to do BIG MAGIC, so maybe that would also be the case for the "accident".

Then the OVA came and Yugo got the six Dofus

It all made sense in my mind. With the six Dofus, Yugo was more powerful than a god, so this would be when he reached his King-God-Form and...

It kinda just looked like his normal "Exalted Form" with different markings. Okay, I thought, so it has to be the Adamai explanation, right?

Then Season 3 and the Oropo OVA came and...

These guys don't look like the Eliotropes we knew until that point at all.

Okay,

maybe they changed the designs so Amalia would recognise Oropo as Yugo?

maybe as more Eliotropes died, they started to look more like Yugo/white people?

Either way, it's super weird that we have never seen a game-looking Eliotrope in the show or even in the OVA.

Also, aside from Oropo the other Eliotropes we see seem to be super variant from Yugo, with some missing the head-thingies and others not even able to create portals, it seems (Repulse dies because he gets thrown off the tower. I think he would have saved himself if he could). In the game however, the Eliotropes seem to be pretty much just reskinned (ha!) Eliatropes with all the same, maybe watered down powers.

Okay, so the rational thing would be to just accept that they retconned the Eliotropes for the show a bit, as there was quite a long break in production. Or just accept it as one of these wird things, like Osamodas evolving to have blue skin in at most a few hundred years.

Ankama has changed designs drastically all the time between media, they really don't like to enslave themselfes to esthetics and and hard lore and really if you think about it does that not give them so much more potential for creat

AND THEN CAME SEASON 4

Spoilers up til episode 10, I guess And the season starts with a reminder that the Eliotropes were created because Yugo did not have perfect control over them and who gets their grabby hands on all 6 (six) of them?

This guy

Notice how his markings are blue now? Hmmm...

"But Qilby should have far more control over the Dofus than Yugo, that's his thing, he has so much experience!", the strawperson said. Yes, but Qilby is also mentally unstable and hyper traumatoze, which he says himself.

He repeatedly has episodes, even while he is using to the dofus.

Also, attuning to the Eliasphere was super taxing and clearly outside of his abilities (as he says himself), so what I want to say is:

there were multiple occasions where he could have slipped up and created his own "accident".

Qilby is the King-God of the Eliotropes from the MMO.

Yugos accident resulted in the creations of eliotropes because

AND QILBY'S GREATEST FEAR IS TO BE ALONE, so it would make sense that his "wish" would also create more "family" for him.

This would also explain some of the differences between show Eliotropes and MMO Eliotropes:

Obviously, the MMO Eliotropes look far more like Qilby's true(?) form, with snow-white skin and blue markings.

Yugo did not really have a great idea what his people were actually like, which explains why his Eliotropes would have so much variance in appearance and power between them. In contrast, Qilby has the most perfect memory of the Eliatrope people in existence, arguably better than the Goddess' herself, considering her millennia-long absence. So it would make sense why his Eliotropes would basically be perfect copies, sans the skin color. Also, despite his mental health, he is still far more skilled than Yugo, which could also explain why his copies are closer to the real deal.

Also, Yugo's Eliotropes (mostly) have his memory, which seems like a thing that would like... come up? Like, at all? And it would make sense that Qilby's "wish" would include for his Eliotropes to be blank slates memory wise, since his recollection of his former lifes is literally the cause of all his suffering.

I rest my case.

In all honesty, this is all probably just a case of Ankama being all loosey-goosey with their lore, especially between the show and the games. But this theory presents a way for the MMO Eliotropes (or Qilby Eliotropes, as I will call them from now on) existing in the same canon as the show, which otherwise is probably the biggest canon "problem". Also, I like the Eliotropes, I like their design, and I like to have a reason to believ they will continue exist somewhere in this funny world some horny frenchmen made up. So, yeah this is my headcanon. First post ever on tumblr, after lurking for over a decade, please be kind to it. See ya when I have to vent my next crackpot theory. Or when I remember interesting parts from the MMO that might interest show-only folks.

#wakfu #qilby #wakfu season 4 #eliotrope #theory #i wanted to post this under colorism but i didnt im so proud of myself

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zeravmeta · 10 months

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SUPER SAIYAN BLUE EVOLVED

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ladymaria-blue · 9 months

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i like drawing myself in different super saiyan forms, sue me 😎

And my ex and the lovely @ciel-phantomblood as Super Saiyan Royal Blue (super saiyan blue evolved, ssgss evolved, whatever) and Mastered Ultra Instinct respectively :)

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jluisjoni · 9 days

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Fellas, meet Anoure. A young Saiyan warrior who hates and rejects Godhood. She's a 25 year old Saiyan born on April 18th, Age 763.

Her story is that she resents the currently active Saiyans from Universe 7 for choosing to evolve themselves by, in her eyes, choosing to become puppets of the gods instead of using their innate Saiyan biology, namely the power of the Great Ape, to strengthen themselves. She learned to tap into and fully channel the Great Ape's powers without transforming into one, mastering the Wrathful state and applying it to Super Saiyan (hence the red eyes, an allusion to the Ōzaru). She eventually learned that mixing Great Ape with Super Saiyan wound up bringing out a whole new power: the Ultimate in Saiyan Evolution, what she chooses to call Super Saiyan Ōzaru (it's just Super Saiyan 4).

She especially detests Goku, as she sees him as the prime example of what happens when a Saiyan rejects their true nature and chooses to evolve through different means, on top of rejecting their real name and identity. She sees him not as a Saiyan, but as an Earthling abusing Saiyan Traits for his own convenience. She blames him for domesticating the Saiyan Prince and roping him into his delusion. Any time she utters his name, there's a certain venom to it, especially his Earth name.

Additional fun facts:

- On top of resenting the God forms, she also does not like Super Saiyan 2 and 3 due to seeing them as just forcing more power out of Super Saiyan, when she already found a better way to got more out of it without being forceful.

- Her name is based on "Cenoura", the Portuguese word for Carrot.

- She's not stronger than the currently active Saiyan fighters. She's very strong, yes, but she wouldn't be able to take down Goku, Vegeta, Broly or Gohan, for example.

And for clarification, she's not an outlet for me to voice frustrations I have with existing forms or to hype up the shit outta Super Saiyan 4. I love Super Saiyan God, and I think Blue is a concept with a lot of potential, it's just been used poorly. Super Saiyan 2 I'm a little more neutral about, but 3 is a form I always thought looked cool. I also have no issues with either Ultra Instinct or Ultra Ego.

That aside, she *is* an outlet for me to play around with concepts that simply popped up in my mind, as I feel the Great Ape as a way to realize Saiyan Potential is something that could be played with on a broader level than just Super Saiyan 4 and the Wrathful form Broly used in his movie. It's really just a fun little thing. It's also meant to be an improvement over an old Saiyan OC I had that I don't look back on too fondly.

#dragon ball #dragon ball oc #dragon ball fanart #dragon ball xenoverse 2

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funtimeamber · 25 days

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Please Do Not Use Or Repost My Original Character Without My Consent And Permission. ~Thank You

It's Finally Time For Me To Give You A Look At Some Of My Character Amber's Transformations. This Piece Of Artwork Was Originally Posted On A Discord Server That I'm In With A Group Of My Friends.

Base Form

Her First Form Is Basically Her In Her Normal Base Form, Nothing In This Form Happens To Her.

Super Saiyan (SSJ)

Her First Transformation Which She Transforms Into To Is Super Saiyan, When She's In This Form Her Strength Will Increase. (The Only Super Saiyan Transformations Are SSJ And SSJ4, She Does Not Have A SSJ2 And SSJ3 Transformations.)

Super Saiyan 4 (SSJ4)

I Gave This Transformation Because I'm Someone Who Enjoys A Bit Of Dragon Ball GT, I've Always Like This Transformation In Particular. This Transformation In Particular Is Perfect For Her Character. Super Saiyan Blue (Evolved)

Even Though Super Saiyan Blue Is Pretty Much Overused In The Series As A Whole, The One Transformation I Liked From Super Saiyan Blue Was Super Saiyan Blue (Evolved). I Chose This One Over Transformations Like Super Saiyan God And Ultra Instinct For My Character.

Great Ape (Oozaru)

Part Of Me Wanted To Include This Transformation Because It's A Big Monkey. I Honestly Think This Transformation Would Fit My Character As A Whole Since She Is Part Saiyan.

Amber And Artwork Belongs To FunTimeAmber

Dragon Ball Transformations Belong To Akira Toriyama And Toei Animation

#original character #my art #oc art #super saiyan #super saiyan 4 #super saiyan blue #oozaru

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fandom-trash-xl · 10 months

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DBS Manga vs Anime Differences: Universe 6 Characters

Notably with the Dragon Ball Super manga, there's a bunch of edits that set it apart from the anime. Same basic plot framework, but a few changes that set them apart. So, I decided to compile some of these changes- the ones that affect the Universe 6 characters (may cover other arcs later, sorry for the U6 hyperfixation moment), so this stuff will be in the U6 and Universal Survival Arcs. The differences range from a few small things to things that completely change the development of the character as a whole- why I rely on the anime canon for some elements in my fics (not saying I don't like the manga).

Anyway, here's what I've grabbed.

UNIVERSE 6 TOURNAMENT ARC

When asked about his lack of a tail, Cabba notes that U6 Saiyans used to have them in the past, but evolved away from them. In the anime, Cabba's confusion seems to imply that they never had tails.

Cabba's promise to Vegeta about visiting Sadala is addressed only very briefly before the matches rather than after their fight later on. It is seemingly never brought up again. The Sadalan King is never mentioned until the Universal Survival arc.

Most noticeably, Frost's lore of being a con artist under the guise of a "hero of justice" is completely absent. He's simply a strong fighter within the universe who just happens to be sneaky with a little poison needle.

Consequently, this means he has no pre-tournament connection to Cabba.

His Assault/Charging/Third Form comes as a surprise to the crowd, while he had publicity around it and even an official name for it in the anime. Again, due to the lore being dropped.

Frost does not have reservations over using his True Form and no concerns over strength control (out of fear of killing) with it.

Piccolo's fight against Frost relies on exhausting Frost's energy rather than on a successful hit from the Special Beam Cannon. In fact, Piccolo doesn't use the move at all.

The Tournament is unpaid for Universe 6; the treasure heap from the anime doesn't exist and Frost can't exactly get support for the peacekeeping efforts that don't exist in the manga. Hit is still offered the hexahedron, however.

Frost turns to the poison needles for this reason, to rush the Tournament to the end rather than make up for a disadvantage.

Frost is shown in the end of chapter drawing to be loading his own poison. There's no confirmation if this is the case in the anime as well, but it can be presumed.

Frost and Vegeta don't arrange a zero-rules match.

Vegeta's finisher on Frost knocks him unconscious, so there's no encounter with Hit. There wouldn't be a motive for the assassin to pursue him regardless.

Cabba is able to gain an initial advantage against Vegeta- notably, he uses light to mask his movements (similar to 17 in the ToP). As a trade-off, he doesn't use a Vegeta-stanced Galick Cannon like in the anime.

When Hit opens his eyes upon sensing Vegeta turning Blue, he doesn't spot Goku smiling at him from across the stadium and reclose them.

Cabba doesn't question Saiyan Pride at all, so Vegeta doesn't need to tell him that it means strength.

Vegeta doesn't develop a Master-Student relationship with Cabba.

Hit's Time Skip is noted to have more reliance on a gap in strength between him and the opponent. When Goku's strength exceeds Hit's he is able to cut off skips midway.

Hit's "Pure Progress" simply increases his power and strength and doesn't increase the amount of time he can skip. His Time Skip never evolves past 0.1 second skips.

Color Manga only, but Hit's blood is shown as red rather than purple.

Hit is a lot more expressive and smiles more often during his fight with Goku.

Goku uses Super Saiyan God before using Blue. As a trade-off, he doesn't use the Blue Kaioken.

Champa doesn't retaliate against his team for losing. There's only an argument between Beerus and Champa when Zeno shows up.

UNIVERSAL SURVIVAL/TOURNAMENT OF POWER ARC

Renso is not mentioned at all. Cabba instead knows Caulifla for her infamy as a bandit and how she's considered "untouchable" by the Sadalan army.

Caulifla's gang is depicted in more detail and is revealed to be more of a Robin Hood-style organization under the surface.

Multiple members of Caulifla's gang refer to her as "sis"; it's not limited to just Kale.

Kale's potential is first noticed by Cabba as she moves almost ninja-like, Caulifla not noticing. In the anime, Caulifla sees her potential simply because she has faith in her due to their close relationship.

Caulifla's ascension to Super Saiyan is skipped over. The only detail given is that she took to it with ease. At least it's not the back tingle thing...

Kale doesn't unlock Super Saiyan until later in the Tournament itself.

Frost is noted to have some ruling power of an unknown extent, as he and Frieza discuss a shared preference of ruling with an iron fist.

Goku's "hiring Hit to kill him" mini arc is absent from the timeline. Goku considers the Tournament their "rematch", despite him wanting to see Hit's killing techniques (which he cannot use here).

Frieza and Frost's team up involves more input from Frieza and the two seem to stick closer together. His plan involves giving Frost intel on U7's weak links then prompting him to use his full strength up front to thin out the competition. Frieza gives him the "full strength up front" fake advice in the anime as well, but Frost doesn't really have the chance to apply it.

Frost doesn't seem to have separate motivations for winning the tournament, while he seeks a pardon from Champa if he manages to deal a significant blow to U7 in the anime.

Frost's moves are more up front compared to in the anime. Anime Frost relies more on survival instincts he gained from being on the lam, an experience that Manga Frost doesn't gain. If he needs to escape when overwhelmed, he simply runs rather than using a smoke bomb attack.

Frieza doesn't demonstrate the 100% Full Power state for Frost and only teases Golden to him before his elimination. Frost only sees Golden Frieza from the sidelines.

Frieza attempts to choke out Frost before kicking him off the side to eliminate him while he uses a large energy blast to do so in the anime.

Color Manga choice again, but Frost is shown spitting up purple blood when Frieza kicks him in the jaw. This matches up with Frieza's being shown to bleed purple earlier in the arc, so the blood color seems to be consistent for the species. Frost doesn't bleed in the anime, but if we match his blood to Frieza's, it would be red. (Bonus fact! Full Color Dragon Ball (pre-Super) gives Frieza blue blood.)

Frost does not attempt to fire a retaliation attack at Frieza from the stands, so he is not erased separately for a foul. This also means he's present for Champa calling him a "joke" compared to Frieza... straight to his face.

Hit pursues Jiren by his own choice rather than attempting to take advantage of the Pride Trooper's supposed "dropped guard" after fighting Ultra Instinct Goku.

Hit notes that he has worked on honing his physical attacks' strength and speed so he can rely less on his Time Skip. He is only shown using non-Skip strikes once Goku joins the fight.

Hit's coattails are shown to detach from his coat; it's unconfirmed if this applies to the anime as well. The detachment shows his lessened reliance on the Time Skip, as the lack of coattails prevents him from hiding minute twitches in his hands with his pockets or in his legs with the coat length.

Hit's new secret move in the manga causes the opponent's moves to lag behind, while it involves freezing the opponent in time in the anime. Vados even mentions that Hit can't freeze Jiren in place at his current power level.

Universe 6's slight mini arc about each member having their own part to play is not addressed. As a result, Cabba doesn't have an overwhelming need to protect Caulifla and Kale by taking fights for them to preserve their team's aces. In fact, he advises Kale to stay out of Caulifla's fight with Frieza and trust her capabilities.

Frieza is able to fully pursue his hunting down of the Universe 6 Saiyans and fights all three over time, although he doesn't snag any of their eliminations. In the anime, he only manages to attack (and eliminate) Cabba and threatens to pursue Caulifla and Kale. He never gets the chance to follow up on this, as Goku prevents him from butting into his fight against them. Ironically, manga Frieza attempts to stop Goku from butting in during the U6 fight.

Kale hints to her backstory, noting that Caulifla took her in when she was lost on the roadside.

Kale doesn't gain a controlled Super Saiyan state, remaining in rampage mode until she fuses with Caulifla.

Kale's rampage drastically cuts down the fat of the Tournament and ends several of the other Universes' mini arcs, such as Universe 3's Anilaza, before they can even begin. Thanks Kale!

Kale's Legendary Super Saiyan state is near confirmed. She's suspected by Cabba to be the "Legendary Saiyan", a demonic Saiyan that appears once in a millennium on a power-increasing rampage until they inevitably self-destruct. Since Cabba and Caulifla know of this myth but not about the Super Saiyan prior to Vegeta passing on the knowledge, it's likely separate from LSSJ.

Vegeta's second promise to Cabba, about promising to restore U6 if he wins, doesn't exist in the manga either. In fact, the two's relationship seems lessened in general.

Instead of being given the Potara by Champa, Caulifla is shown to have secretly pilfered them from Fuwa. Likely an art error but, oddly, Fuwa can be seen with his earrings earlier in the Tournament before realizing they're gone.

The hiding spot for the earrings is shown, being stashed in Caulifla's belt.

Cabba's elimination is a sacrifice to prevent Kale's fall and attach the Potara earring to her.

Kale's rampage is seemingly calmed automatically by being fused, rather than learning control.

Kefla's base form is absent.

Kefla fights Gohan rather than Goku and seems to be on par with Mystic/Ultimate Gohan. Due to this fight change, Super Saiyan 3 isn't teased to Caulifla and Kale.

U6's final ranking in the Tournament is third place rather than fifth.

Goku's Ultra Instinct Sign state doesn't make its first appearance until very late in the Tournament. Only the angels, Universes 7 and 11, and the spectating Universes witness it. The remaining Universes likely either have no knowledge of it or learn about it from Universal gossip.

The Zenos' secret test against selfish wishes is not addressed.

The erased Universes are restored at the benches rather than in their home universes.

AND (mini bonus)

BENCH FRIT

(I mean, Frost was directly behind Hit once Hit got eliminated, it looks like he's scooted forward. Anyway, I digress.)

AND those are the Universe 6 relevant differences between the anime and manga! Hope to cover a few other differences in the other arcs later but the U6 hyperfixation is too strong some days.

#dragon ball #dragon ball super #dragon ball super manga #long post #anime vs manga #Universe 6 #Frost #Cabba #Hit #Caulifla #Kale #Kefla #analysis #images will probably not be lined up like I set them up because setting images next to each other in the post editor often means nothing

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cxffeeshxp · 10 months

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~God, learning how Ultra Instinct Goku wasn't even supposed be a thing, neither was Kaioken Super Saiyan Blue or evolved Super Saiyan Blue explains why when they feel more impactful in Super Broly.

In the anime just just pop that shit like nothing, making it feel so meh, but when they have to pop it against Broly, you feel that's it's strong. Plus, showing how it differs from Sayian God, which relies on being calm, is also cool.

Just another reason why DBS Broly is a great Dragon Ball movie.

#{ mun rambles }

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duhragonball · 2 years

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Colorforms

I gotta talk about all the new forms that have been going around in Dragon Ball Super, which means I have to spoil the new movie AND the manga.

Okay, so this really got started back in 2015, when Frieza came back for Resurrection F. The early chatter about the movie mostly had to do with how Frieza could still be a viable threat, since the good guys had all gotten a lot stronger since his last appearance. Then one of the trailers unveiled his new final form, Golden Frieza.

Not to be outdone, Goku and Vegeta debuted new transformations of their own in the same movie. Officially, these were called “Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan”, which was meant to indicate that this was the next step beyond the god form Goku used in the previous film. But the name was clunky as hell, and even the acronym was a tongue-twister, so fans started derisively calling it “Blue-per Saiyan”. Eventually, the manga even lampshaded SSGSS by having Goku talk about it during a sparring match with Vegeta, and then he bit his tongue, and suggested that they just call it “Super Saiyan Blue” for short.

Not long after, Goku Black showed up, and revealed he had his own SSGSS form, which was pink for no apparent reason. He dubbed this form Super Saiyan Rosé, because Goku Black is a pretentious fuck. He fused with Zamasu to become an even more pretentious fuck, and then Goku and Vegeta fused to become Vegito, who went SSGSS and called himself “Vegito Blue”.

Then Goku discovered Ultra Instinct during the Tournament of Power, which turned his hair white, or maybe silver. I’m not sure which. No one called this “Super Saiyan Silver” or anything, but I felt it was worth noting. Vegeta discovered “Super Saiyan Blue Evolved”, or whatever you want to call it. I’m loathe to count that one, because it’s not terribly distinct, although I do think it’s a more appealing shade of blue.

After that came the Broly movie. The original version of Broly always had a greenish-tint to his Super Saiyan form, but the DBS version seemed to be a lot greener by the end of the movie. Also, Gogeta Blue happened, because why not.

Then the DBS manga introduced Ultra Ego, a new form for Vegeta. I don’t know a whole lot about this one, except that it’s a thematic parallel to Ultra Instinct, and it’s purple. They didn’t call it “Vegeta Purple”, or “Super Saiyan Purple”, but they probably discussed it at some point.

Then DBS: Super Hero premiered, giving us new forms for Gohan and Piccolo. I remember “Gohan Blanco” was trending on Twitter when the movie premiered in Japan, so I had a feeling people were making jokes about a new Gohan form with white hair. “Gohan Blanco” was a tongue-in-cheek idea from the Latin American DB fandom, but apparently Toei and Shueisha just went ahead and did it for real, only they called if “Gohan Beast” instead.

I think “Orange Piccolo” was also trending that week, but I had no way to be sure if that was a real spoiler or just a joke. You could imagine someone looking at Gohan Beast and saying “Pfft, what’s next? Are they gonna make Piccolo orange?” Yes, yes they did, and it ruled.

And finally, right before DBSSH premiered in North America, the latest chapter of the DBS manga went live, revealing that Frieza has another new form, and this one is called Black Frieza. And maybe it’s appropriate that Frieza bring us back full circle, because the point I want to make here is that they kind of ran out of colors.

I mean, technically red, purple, white, and green are still up for grabs, but there are already prominent forms that use those colors. I’m kind of surprised that “Super Saiyan Red” hasn’t caught on as another name for Super Saiyan God. I think Ultra Ego has the market cornered on purple, and Broly and Kale have green.

And you know, you could mix and match the characters, but I think “Orange Frieza” lacks some of the punch it might have had if Piccolo hadn’t already beaten him to it. Likewise, “Super Saiyan Green” would have a hard time getting over as a new form when Broly and Kale have already been using something similar.

I suppose “Gohan Beast” represents an admission that the color thing will need to give way to a new naming convention. But where do you go from here? I still don’t get “Gohan Beast”. What was so beastly about Gohan’s new form? Broly looks more feral in his powered up state than Gohan ever did. The new form is fine, I just don’t get the name.

Nonetheless, I don’t really have a problem with all of these new forms being named after or primarily identified by color. It’s always been like this. The Red Ribbon Army characters were named for colors, after all. The main advantage of it is that it’s not as linear or as predictable as numbers.

Back in the day, there were all sorts of fan-designs for Super Saiyan 5 and beyond, which I found goofy because I’ve never been convinced that Super Saiyan 4 was such a hot idea. Fan works would often follow the same formula from the source material, just increasing the numbers. “Uh-oh, Vegeta and Gohan are having a tough time with this battle, because their Super Saiyan 7 forms aren’t strong enough. But wait, Goku has just unlocked a new level called Super Saiyan 8!”

I mean, at least with things like Gohan Beast and Ultra Ego Vegeta, it’s not immediately clear who’s stronger than who. Maybe Gohan just leapfrogged past everybdoy, or maybe he’s only begun to catch up to Goku and Vegeta. We won’t know for sure until they get into some more fights.

I am somewhat concerned by the frequency of all these new forms showing up, though. It feels like we never really got everything out of Golden Frieza, an he’s already moved on to a new thing. Same with Vegeta, really. He just got Ultra Ego, and Black Frieza wrecked his shit, so I can only assume he’ll be looking for a new transformation to show off soon.

On the other hand, Gohan and Piccolo were long overdue for this, so maybe it’ll still work. I know new transformations are a draw for this franchise, so maybe they can make it work by giving new forms to other characters while they let the main cast have a bit of a cooldown. Let’s see Dick Exploder Tien and Yamcha Aquamarine. Give the people what they want and do Mega Chiaotzu.

#dragon ball #dragon ball super

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livefreeforfun · 1 year

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The Ultimate Form, Its Evolutions, And How It Lives Up To Its Name (DBS: Super Hero Spoilers Ahead)

Dragon Ball is a show with many different power altering techniques and transformations, from Kaioken to Super Saiyan to even fusion. Knowing this, many characters use these different forms and techniques in their goal of attaining further strength. But which is the best and why is it the best? If you were to ask me, that honor would go to the Ultimate form.

The Ultimate form has been and is known as many things throughout Dragon Ball’s lifespan: Potential Unleashed, the Mystic form, Power Unleashed, Power Awakening, and obviously Ultimate. Essentially, the form draws out all of a person’s hidden potential and even heightens a person's senses, as Gohan was able to see without his glasses after transforming in Super Hero, but his eyesight reverted to being poor once he powered back down into his base form. As if that wasn’t enough, the form seemingly doesn’t take any stamina away from the wielder to use. The form is typically gained through enduring Elder Kai’s ritual, but Piccolo showcased the ability to be granted the form from Shenron via a wish.

In no uncertain terms, the power that this transformation can grant its user is absurd. Gohan was able to outclass Super Saiyan 3 Goku’s power as soon as he received the form, beat Super Buu before he absorbed Gotenks, and after further training in Dragon Ball Super it was shown to be able to keep up with Super Saiyan Blue.

As if the form wasn’t crazy enough, Dragon Ball Super: Super Hero gave us the fun information that just like Super Saiyan, the Ultimate form can evolve into separate, more powerful transformations. While this has caused some confusion in the fanbase, as the Ultimate form is already supposed to draw out all of a person’s latent potential, episode 90 of the DBS anime implies that Super Saiyan can be combined with the Ultimate form.

My point being that just because the Ultimate form brings out all of your latent potential doesn’t mean that your power can’t be further amplified. That being said, I think that’s what these evolved forms are doing: simply amplifying the user’s power after bringing forth their latent potential.

But that’s not all these evolved forms have to offer. When I said “just like Super Saiyan, the Ultimate form can evolve into separate, more powerful transformations”, I didn’t mean something like an Ultimate 2, Ultimate 3, etc etc, I meant that everyone who evolves their Ultimate form gets a transformation (seemingly) entirely unique to them. While it’s never directly stated why in Super Hero, I think the reason is pretty obvious: the transformations are themed around the sources of the character’s potential, and different character’s potentials come from different places. Gohan’s Beast form is unlocked in a moment of rage at seeing Piccolo hurt by Cell Max, just like the rage boosts he would experience as a child.

Piccolo’s potential comes from his Namekian heritage, but more specifically, his fusions with Nail and Kami. Think about it: his Orange form was granted to him by Shenron, the eternal dragon originally created by the Nameless Namekian who would eventually split into Piccolo and Kami. By fusing back with Kami, that means that Piccolo has returned to being the Nameless Namekian, so Shenron helping out his creator with a new transformation makes sense. You could also argue that Piccolo’s fusions not only made him stronger in the moment, but increased his potential, allowing him to grow further and faster than he would have been able to without undergoing them, but that’s a discussion for another time.

It should come as a shock to no-one reading that these transformations are ridiculously powerful. Given how Gohan’s Ultimate form allowed him to keep pace with Goku’s Super Saiyan Blue, amping the power of the form beyond that is insane to think about, and it’s no small amp either. Before Gohan obtained the form, he seemed pitiful in comparison to Cell Max, but once he transformed he was able to tank a punch from Cell Max without even flinching. I think it’s safe to say that the amp in power provided by Gohan’s Beast form outclasses the amp that Goku’s Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken x20 amp gives him, which putting it simply means that I think that Beast’s amp is greater than x20 the power Gohan’s Ultimate form provides him.

Orange Piccolo isn’t as powerful as Gohan, but that doesn’t mean he’s a slouch either. The Orange form gives Piccolo enough power to easily defeat Gamma 2, who was stronger than him in his Ultimate state. I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that the Gammas are stronger than Android 17 who, get this, was also able to fight evenly with Goku’s Super Saiyan Blue form. Given how Orange Piccolo knocked out Gamma 2 with one punch, I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say that Piccolo’s Orange form gives him a similar amp to Gohan’s Beast form. I’m not saying that Orange Piccolo and Beast Gohan are equal in power, just that the amp their forms provide are similar.

So let’s summarize the main points just to make sure we got everything nice and tidy: the Ultimate form draws out all of the user’s latent potential with minimal to no stamina usage which can be further amplified by other powers, such as Super Saiyan. The form can also evolve into a new, unique form depending on the source of your potential, and these evolved states amplifies the user’s already drawn out power to ludicrous levels.

And that does it, really. That’s why I think Ultimate is the, well, ultimate form to strive for to increase your power in the world of Dragon Ball. I don’t really know how to end this other than saying that this is just my interpretation of the forms based on the information I know about Dragon Ball and that if you have a different interpretation then more power to you. I’m not trying to convince anyone that they have to agree with me, just sharing my own personal thoughts and ideas. I plan to write more short essay stuff like this as well, I think my next one will be talking about the human Z-Fighters!

If you’ve read this far, thank you so much! This is the first time I’ve ever sat down and wrote something like this and while I’m not expecting it to do super well, it’s cool knowing that maybe someone will read it and agree with me. If you see this, have a great day!

#first big post!#dragon ball #dragon ball z #dragon ball super #dragon ball super super hero #db #dbz #dbs #dbs super hero #gohan #piccolo #ultimate gohan #ultimate piccolo #beast gohan #orange piccolo #essay

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heroforgeryhemporium · 2 months

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#dragon ball #goku #vegeta #super saiyan #super saiyan 2 #super saiyan 3 #super saiyan 4 #super saiyan god #super saiyan god super saiyan #super saiyan blue #super saiyan blue evolved #super saiyan blue evolution #super saiyan god super saiyan evolution #super saiyan god super saiyan evolved #this franchise is fucking insane!!!!!!#heroforge #heroforge minis

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sweetescapeartist · 3 months

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"ZENKAI-BOOSTS" EXPLAINED

Saiyans have an innate ability that helps them get stronger during & after combat. I categorize them as "Zenkai-Boosts" & "Saiyan-Power." In this post, we'll look at how Zenkai Boosts function based off of what the series has shown us.

For more about Saiyan-Power, here's this link.

HOW ZENKAI-BOOSTS FUNCTION:

Zenkai-Boost are a way for a Saiyan to quickly increase in power after recovering from combat so that they reach their full potential. That potential varies for all Saiyans & most Saiyans were weaker than Raditz. But, once a Saiyan reaches their physical limit and push themselves past that point, a Saiyan will transform into a Super Saiyan IF they are strong enough and IF they capable of the transformation (& nearly every Saiyan was incapable of turning Super Saiyan). Most Saiyans could only turn into an Oozaru during a full moon. And very few knew how to increase their battle power on command (like the Saiyan Elite Nappa & the Super Elite Vegeta).

It's also important to mention that Vegeta surpassed his father while he was still a child and that Saiyans weren't even supposed to capable of reaching the level of power that Namek Saga Goku (who was trained by "low-tier" gods) & Namek Saga Vegeta (who is a Super Elite prodigy).

ZENKAI-BOOSTS ARE LIMITED:

The series has never stated nor shown that Zenkai-Boosts are infinite. On the contrary, the opposite is revealed within the series.

Zenkai-Boosts appear to apply for every Saiyan form. Each form can be pushed to their limit by Zenkai-Boosts until the Saiyan can no longer acquire a Zenkai Boost in those forms anymore. The current Saiyan transformation limit for Goku & Vegeta is Super Saiyan Blue with there currently being no Saiyan transformation beyond Blue. Both the anime & manga have relayed to us that Goku & Vegeta have reached their Zenkai-Boost limit for SSB.

In a similar way, Vegeta reached his Super Saiyan transformation limit with SSJ2 before he learned god ki. However, he did manage to get his SSJ2 form to surpass Goku's SSJ3 form (which was Goku's transformation limit before he learned god ki). But... how do Goku & Vegeta surpass their Super Saiyan Blue limit without Zenkai-Boosts?

Goku uses Kai-o-Ken on top of Super Saiyan Blue. (DBS anime continuity)

Vegeta evolved the power of Super Saiyan Blue. (DBS anime continuity)

(SSBKK & SSBE are different in the DBS manga continuity.)

However, both SSBKK & SSBE are still Super Saiyan Blue. All they did was find ways to amplify the power of their highest transformation through a technique or through evolution.

The other way for Goku & Vegeta to surpass their Super Saiyan transformation limit was to use non-Saiyan transformations that are techniques of the gods;

Goku uses Ultra Instinct (anime & manga)

Vegeta uses Ultra Ego (manga exclusive)

Another way for Saiyans to surpass their limits is through Saiyan-Power; the Saiyan ability to get stronger during combat. But, this is not a process that quickly grants a huge leap in power.

WHO STILL GET ZENKAI-BOOSTS? 🤔

DO GOKU & VEGETA STILL GET ZENKAI-BOOSTS?

From what we are shown, they do not get them anymore after they pushed Super Saiyan Blue to it's limit. They now have to level up like how Earthlings and Piccolo do by having better control if their ki in order to increase their strength. So, back to basics in a way for Goku. Having further mastery of your ki to increase your strength is something Vegeta has realized is necessary in DBS: Super Hero since he has reached a wall he cannot overcome (this differs in the DBS manga continuity quite a bit).

However, Goku & Vegeta still have their "Saiyan-Power" ability (the ability to get stronger during combat) to get themselves stronger when they spar against each other or are in serious fights.

DOES GOHAN STILL GET ZENKAI-BOOSTS?

Regarding Gohan's Super Saiyan forms and his Ultimate form, he cannot get Zenkai-Boosts anymore. He has to rely on ki control in order to get stronger as well as his Saiyan-Power ability. However, Gohan can get Zenkai-Boosts while in his Beast form. He just hasn't faced anyone who can injure him in that form.

Similar can be said of Future Trunks with his Super Saiyan Rage form from the DBS Anime Continuity. Those forms can still get stronger from Zenkai-Boosts & such was shown for Super Saiyan Rage Trunks when he fought Goku Black & Zamasu.

DO TRUNKS & GOTEN STILL GET ZENKAI-BOOSTS?

Yes, but they aren't really fighters nor are they proper martial artists. However, their SSJ form can eventually get pushed to the next transformation with enough Zenkai-Boosts & an emotional trigger. But, as shown with Vegeta, SSJ2 may be the highest form that they can get (without god ki). SSJ3 was only attained by Goku when training with a spirit body in Other World and by Gotenks through magic from Metamorian Fusion. So, SSJ3 is possible for them. But, Goten & Trunks individually haven't even gotten SSJ2 yet after 10 years.

Although Present Trunks & Goten have more potential than Goku & Vegeta, they don't have the same potential Gohan has. And like Gohan, they aren't obsessed with fighting like Goku & Vegeta are. They could be capable of a unique SSJ transformation like Future Trunks' Super Saiyan Rage, but they don't have any drive to get stronger nor anything drastic to push them to get stronger.

DOES BROLY STILL GET ZENKAI-BOOSTS?

Possibly. But, since he awakened his full potential with his Full Power Super Saiyan form (Legendary SSJ), he may not get Zenkai-Boosts anymore or only has a few more left that he can get. I believe Broly's Zenkai-Boosts won't aid him much if any since his "Saiyan-Power" ability already brought out his potential without needing a Zenkai-Boost to do so. Due to Broly being born as an amazingly powerful mutant amongst the Saiyan race, his inborn Saiyan-Power ability is FAR beyond what even a natural born prodigy like Vegeta can do.

While Vegeta & Goku required the use of god ki to reach their current level of power, Broly did not need to do so & was on par with their Super Saiyan God forms within minutes before he even turned into a normal Super Saiyan. Broly's "Saiyan-Power" ability is beyond insane.

DO CABBA, CAULIFLA, & KALE STILL GET ZENKAI-BOOSTS?

More than likely. Although, SSJ2 was the max for the prodigy Vegeta. In the DBS Manga Continuity, Cabba & Caulifla haven't reached SSJ2 yet. But in the DBS Anime Continuity, Cabba & Caulifla may have maxed out with Zenkai-Boosts at SSJ2 despite Caulifla wanting to reach SSJ3. Then again, Universe 6 Saiyans appear to have more potential than Universe 7 Saiyans, so they may be able to reach SSJ3 or some other form.

Regarding Kale in both continuities, she may not have a need for Zenkai-Boosts anymore with her own unique SSJ form. If she can still get Zenkai-Boosts, she probably doesn't have many left.

DO PAN & BRA STILL GET ZENKAI-BOOSTS?

Of course! Pan is 1/4 Saiyan, but still has Saiyan abilities & practices martial arts. Bra is 1/2 Saiyan, but we don't know if she will become a combatant in the main timeline or not. We just saw her as a kid cheering Pan on at the End of Z & she wasn't a combatant in GT. Bra might end up like her Uncle Tarble and just not be a fighter. Who knows. All I know is that they have the Zenkai-Boost ability due to having enough Saiyan blood in them.

According to the video game Dragon Ball Online that Toriyama helped create, future descendants of Goku & Vegeta lost their Saiyan abilities due to having so little Saiyan blood. They were mostly Earthling at that point. And they were only able to access their Saiyan abilities by making a wish to Shenron to unlock their abilities. Toriyama has repurposed some ideas from DBO like the Freeza Force returning when Goku & Vegeta are gone, a new Red Ribbon Army resurfacing, & Tien creating a dojo. So, if Toriyama wishes to use that idea about descendants of Saiyans that he had for DBO & implement it for the main continuity, future descendants of Goku & Vegeta won't be able to use Saiyan abilities (Zenkai-Boosts, Saiyan-Power, Super Saiyan) unless they have that power unlocked for them. However, the GT continuity differs as shown with Goku Jr. & Vegeta Jr being able to turn SSJ rather easily & without having the ability to transform unlocked for them. But, this is nothing new for GT. It has taken liberties with a many other things that end up contradicting Toriyama's established ideas.

➕ EXTRA ABOUT ZENKAI-BOOSTS:

I DO NOT believe that Saiyans get Zenkai-Boosts that put them on par with the stronger opponent they face or an opponent they sense as some ppl believe (99.9% of Saiyans couldn't even sense ki). If this was the case, Vegeta would have recovered and immediately been on par with #18 without training for a year in the RoSaT to acquire a power beyond SSJ. Or Vegeta would've been on par with Perfect Cell after eating a senzu, or even on par with Beerus after being defeated by him.

Pertaining Goku, he would have been on par with Final Form Freeza when he was recovering in a Healing Chamber while the others fought Freeza. However, Goku wasn't even on the same level of power as Freeza even with the Kaio-Ken ×20 & Freeza was holding back. There are too many flaws in that theory for it to be a solid explanation.

I simply believe that Saiyans gradually increase in strength as they fight (Saiyan-Power) while also drastically increasing in strength after near death (Zenkai-Boosts). A prolonged fight gets a Saiyan closer to the level of a stronger opponent while healing after defeat increases their power even more. And there is no garuntee they will be on par with their opponent unless their opponent is slightly stronger than themselves like Vegeta vs Zarbon Round 2. However, as I mentioned before, these Zenkai-Boosts keep happening until they hit their limit. And that limit varies depending on the Saiyan. However, Saiyan-Power comes into play to help push a Saiyan to their limit, then slowly beyond said limit in order to get them to transform IF they are capable of a form higher than Oozaru. And as stated prior, majority of Saiyans were not capable of such.

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alienzgenixyt · 2 years

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Dragon Ball Super Heroes VS Moro Arc, which one is more interesting?

Now, even though, Dragon Ball Super Heroes is just an advertisement of Super Dragon Ball Heroes: World Mission, produced by Dimps Corporation on Nintendo Switch and any kind of PC and its abbreviations and released by Bandai Namco Games, it still produced some of the greatest moments. Same applies for Moro Arc. It's in manga, and fan-animated, but showed the first extremely powerful non-god destroyer, surpassing Jiren by tens and thousands the power. Sometimes called The All-Destroying God, he was able to best Son Goku, or Kakarot, even when he was in SSJG (Super Saiya-jin God or Super Saiyan God), and bested Vegeta in Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Evolved or Super Saiyan Blue Enhanced. Putting all of this aside, the main question at hand is, is Dragon Ball Super Heroes more interesting, or does that apply to the Moro Arc?

Reviews by individuals for the Moro arc: -"At first, I didn’t think much of it, but with each chapter it just gets better and better. If it wasn’t for the Goku Black arc this would be my favorite and it is better than the Black are objectively speaking." So was quoted by omega_king13

"It's okay, not terrible but far from DB/DBZ arcs. I like Vegeta being the main focus but I feel this story would fit better right after Buu. It's weird to come back to single universe exploration and villains when just not so long ago we had a multiverse tournament taking place." So was quoted by Gaoron

Reviews by individuals for Super Dragon Ball Heroes: - "As 'Dragon Ball Super' temporarily ended with the Tournament of Power arc in March, fans were elated when news came of a new anime to hold them over until the main show returned. As pure filler fluff and glorified advertisement for the currently Japan-exclusive arcade game of the same title, "Super Dragon Ball Heroes" does its job but ends up being kind of a detriment to the rest of the franchise as it basically spoils us." Quoted on IMDb by DJ Pilkington. Total Review here: - Review 1. This review gave it a 5/10 despite the fights

"Episodes are too short but the concept is amazing the throw everything in together. Lots of enemies versus lots of Heroes is great but wish you would turn into a bigger series like super and z" Review by fear20. Link for review here: - Review 2. This person gave this a 9/10

So, you are here to hear about my review. Captivated by the reviews, I decided to watch the fan-animation and manga of Moro arc, as well as the official anime for Super Dragon Ball Heroes. Links for accessing them are given below: - mangareader.io (For Moro Arc, manga 43 to 67), Fan-animation for the same (YouTube), Official Super Dragon Ball Heroes from Episode 1 (Zoro.to, Subtitles, Japanese). Oh boy, were they right! The manga itself was enticing, fan-animation on another level! Whereas the same can't be said about Super Dragon Ball Heroes. It was pretty boring, except for the fights, which were, meh alright. They never showed Goku in his normal behaviour. The only good part was when Goku was in Grand-Ultra Instinct. So there you have it folks! The title "More Interesting" goes to Moro Arc. This is it. This was small, but hope it suffices. Do follow me for more posts. Meet you later!

#dragon ball #anime #dragon ball super

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smokeybrandreviews · 2 years

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Marshawn Lynch

Gohan Beast is nowhere near as powerful as everyone wants it to be. I’ve seen cats rejoicing as if this was Gohan’s grand return to the top of the power scales and i just don’t understand how that’s possible. Look, Dragon Ball Super: Superhero was a fun watch. I loved the Piccolo content. I love seeing the former Demon King becoming relevant again, gaining a new form or two in the process. I loved seeing him go from best dad, to best granddad in the series. Even Cell MAX has grown on me somewhat. Hell, I'm having a hard time not giving well deserved due to my least favorite character of the entire franchise, Gohan, because this motherf*cker straight up bodied his fights. I can’t lie, Beast LOOKS incredible but it’s not the “strongest” transformation in Super. It might have one helluva multiplier but Gohan is FOURTH best in Beast, at best.

Not even gonna touch on the mild racism of Black Freezer, but the three full-blooded Saiyans were conveniently removed from this entire scenario with that ol’ go-to; Training. That’s right, the Red Ribbon return was missed by Goku, Vegeta, AND the new addition, Broly. This is wildly interesting because any one of those cats would have ended this “threat” before it even started. Straight up base form, the strongest motherf*cker in the galaxy right now is probably Broly. This man, just in Ikari mode, bodied a God Ki Imbued Vegeta and Goku, forcing them to go SSG, then SSB, only to lose individually. That's just a pissed off Broly, not a transformed Broly. When he does transform, it's into the Legendary Super Saiyan form and that's a problem. In this form, he embarrassed both Blue Saiyans at the same f*cking time, Golden Freezer, and it took Whis toying with him for an hour so that Gogeta could show up to save the day. God Ki Gogeta was more than enough to wax this cat but the Fusions are dicks so OP Blue it is. Broly was able to do all of this, WITH NO TRAINING. This was Broly’s first real fight and he did ALL of that damage with no experience outside of whatever he could glean from his pitiable scraps with Paragus. Fast forward to Superhero and he has been training with Goku for years. Literal years. How much stronger is he now?

Now for the main course; Goku and Vegeta. Assuming that the events in the manga aren’t canon just yet and Vegeta hasn’t unlocked Ego, Goku is still WELL on his way to cracking Instinct. It wasn’t demonstrated in Superhero, but you can see little hints that the two of them have those forms in their back pockets but i'm just going to act like that’s not the case. At the end of Super, the ToP demonstrated that Vegeta has effectively unlocked SSB Full-Grade with Super Saiyan Blue Evolved. This was his answer to UI Sign and it was strong enough to defeat a God of Destruction mode Toppo. That means Vegeta is as strong, or stronger, than a good amount of the GoDs on hand to see this tournament. Nowhere near Beerus (pretty sure he’s the strongest of that lot) but probably stronger than a great many of those f*ckers. Then there’s Goku who cracked Ultra Instinct during that tournament. He was able to outright embarrass Jiren, the literal pinnacle of strength throughout the multiverse, rivaling even Beerus in power (again, Cat-daddy is probably the strongest of the GoDs), until the backlash ruined his body. Let’s not forget the Zenakai these cats would get after the ToP. Bro, are you kidding me? That, alone, should put both Son Wukong and Getes up there in strength. AND THEY BOTH FOUGHT BROLY AFTER THAT!

By the time Gohan achieves Beast, it’s been YEARS since this tourney and these assholes have been training ever since. With Broly. Are you really going to tell me, with a straight face, that Goku and Vegeta haven’t, at the very least, figured out how to achieve a perfected Ego and Instinct by this point? Never mind those two techniques, (they are techniques and not forms, similar to Gohan’s Potential Unleashed technique) just cannon SSB Evolved and UI Sign would be, head-and-shoulders, more powerful than their introductions at this point. Specifically Vegeta’s SSBE. Vegeta is a whole ass genius when it comes to training and developing techniques. He’s the one that unlocked becoming Super Saiyan God all on his own and then went a step further to be the first to achieved Super Saiyan Blue. Gete’s did that. You expect me to believe he’s rested on his laurels this entire time? Especially after Goku achieved UI that one time? Especially since Broly exists? Especially since he KNOWS Freezer is still out there? Get the f*ck outta here. Then there’s Goku who would die first before letting Vegeta leapfrog him in power for too long. If you actually think that Goku hasn’t kept pace with Getes, you aren’t a fan of Dragon Ball.

Based just on the fact that Vegeta has the power to be a mid tier God of Destruction and Goku has mastered Ultra Instinct Sign, Cell Max would be nothing to them. Not a f*cking thing. Factoring in that Broly waxed these cats in their Blue forms, with just an Ikari state, not counting the Legendary Super Saiyan form, Beast can’t possibly be that strong. Just from the eye test of these three cats being absolutely removed from the battle by the safest deus ex machina imaginable, that the big threat was a human created Android based on Cell, Gohan Beast can’t possibly be in the same power tier as the full-blood Saiyans. The math just doesn’t add up. That’s not to say that Beast doesn’t have potential. I imagine through training this thing can become a problem but that’s just going to fuel Vegeta and Goku to break even more ceilings. Ultimately, Gohan Beast is probably the most powerful MORTAL transformation. I imagine Beast would body base form Vegeta and Goku with God ki and absolutely embarrass Broly. However, beyond that? That one step beyond, be it just a regular SSJ form of SSG? I dunno.

Beast feels comparable to, like, a SSG 1.5 or 1.75 to me. Like, Cell Max can’t be as strong as Jiren, GoD Toppo, or LSSJ Broly; All of which were handled by Vegeta and Goku in lesser forms. I mean, LSSJ Broly needed a Fusion but that’s neither here not there. Years after that fight, Goku was handling bro pretty well in a spar, even after he started going Ikari, during the Superhero movie! That’s who they were training! That’s why they weren’t around! They have literally been fighting this dude, for years, at this point! Considering how much Broly learned during the one fight he had with Goku and Vegeta, WHILE HE WAS FIGHTING THEM, dude must be on an entirely different level after properly being trained by someone who can actually keep up with him. Then there’s the question of how strong MAX could possibly be considering he’s created from Gero’s original Cell plans. Just how far could Hedo have pushed his granddad's research? He wasn’t able to create a Perfect Cell MAX so how strong was this thing really, limited to the second, still imperfect form as a base? Now, i know authors and guidebooks have hyped up that a “complete” Cell Max would be a problem for even Broly but really? Using what is objectively hyperbole to get butts in theater seats as evidence by claims that Gohan is the “strongest”, comes across as a little desperate to me. There’s no way Cell MAX is stronger than the weakest of GoDs and all three full-blooded Saiyans are at least mid GoD level at this point, realistically high to top tier. That means, at the end of the day, Gohan Beast is still just the FOURTH most powerful cat in DBS. Fifth, if we’re counting Congelador Negro. Or I could be wrong and Super is just, like, “F*ck it” in terms of power scaling because Toei is greedy for merchandising loot. Gohan Beast would make a pretty dope looking toy, for sure.

#Dragon Ball Super: Superhero #Dragon Ball Super #Gohan Beast #Son Gohan #Orange Piccolo #Piccolo Jr.

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