To me, specifically for the way they are portrayed on MC and I Claudius (not speaking about their real life historical counterparts), Livia and Hurrem are kinda opposites.

• Livia works with the system. She puts on the facade of the dutiful, obedient, subservient, and supportive Roman matron but she’s actually really ambitious and ruthless. For better or worse, she leads with her head not her heart (even when it results in those closest to her struggling to feel any real affection for her). She wants what she wants and she won’t stop no matter who gets in her way, even her family. She’s the threat no one sees coming until it’s too late.

• Hurrem actively fights against the system. She’s ambitious and ruthless but she’s also kind and empathetic. She does what good she can (via charity and public works and by rewarding those loyal to her) when she can. For better or worse, she leads with her heart (even when it causes her to make a huge mistake or to lash out in anger in a way that she’ll later regret). She only wants 2 things: 1) for her family and loved ones to be safe and 2) to never be powerless or at the mercy of other’s again. She’s the one who gets blamed for everything even when (sometimes especially) when she’s not the one at fault.

I think the biggest difference they have is their empathy. Hurrem always remembers where she came from and what she’s been through (she remembers her homeland and her native language and keeps it alive by singing lullabies to her children, she cries for her mother and father and sister, she frees Sumbul after he “unintentionally” betrays her and chides her daughter for her privilege when she doesn’t understand, etc.). She is able to be kind and understanding and respectful to the people who have caused her the most harm even when they wouldn’t do the same to her. She asks Mahidevran, the woman who once beat her to a bloody pulp, for forgiveness. She tells Valide Sultan, who tried for years to make her fall out of favor with the Sultan and to remove her from the harem, on her deathbed how much she respects and looks up to her. She prays over Ibrahim’s grave, the man who forced her to poison her childhood sweetheart. Following this cruelty, she remains a true and genuine friend to his wife Hatice for many years. She tells Mustafa to his face the unfair truth and explains to him that it is their circumstances and situations that make them enemies and she genuinely mourns his and his son’s death despite orchestrating his downfall for years. In stark contrast, there’s Livia. She pretends to nurse a man on his deathbed while spoon feeding him poison. She drives her husband nearly mad with paranoia to the point that he’ll only eat figs which she poisons. She tricks a priestess in order to manipulate the contents of a will to her own favor. She gets a loving son to rat out his mother’s scandalous affairs. She constantly berates and humiliates her grandson for his disability. She arranges for her son to divorce a woman he genuinely loves. She gets her granddaughter to accuse her lover of rape and much, much worse.

However, I think the biggest thing they have in common though is their almost unreal capacity to be able to play the long game. They knew what they wanted and they schemed and plotted to get it even though it took years or even decades. The commitment they had to their goals and their willingness to follow through is almost unparalleled in other characters. They also both have a good understanding of other people’s motives and characters and use it to their own advantage. Whether others are aware of it or not, they puppet master a lot of things behind the scenes.

Both are amazing characters that are absolutely captivating on screen. There’s a quote about Anne Boleyn that I think applies to both characters: “perhaps a figure to be more admired than liked”

All of this yes!

I will say that Hürrem's form of rebellion against the system is very interesting and I think is the key as to what makes her different from Livia.

She doesn't foment revolution. She doesn't oppose Süleyman (at least overtly). She uses her loyalty as a shield. It's more subtle than that. She asserts her humanity and refuses to give up that side of herself. She always remembers where she came from and what her motivations and goals are (love and family). And for someone who was enslaved and brought into this system, the fact that she fights for humanity against those dehumanising circumstances to me is the key. One of her first lines after arriving in Topkapi is 'We aren't animals' after all. She always sees herself and everyone else regardless of status as a person in spite of how cruel and ruthless she eventually becomes.

They are absolutely both brilliant at playing the long game. It's just that Livia is cold where Hürrem is hot.

First of all love that your doing more historical and hotd parallels, secondly the choice of Mary Queen of Scots and Rhaenyra is inspired but the more I think about the more it makes sense!

Thank you so much!! The idea of the parallels between Rhaenyra and Mary was of @royalsultanas , when they told me about the similarities they saw between both of these women I was in awe bc the parallels are so striking! I’m about to finish part 2 of that set and after I post it I’m gonna finish a draft about other HotD historical parallels I’ve had in mind for a few months now, so stay tuned!! More is definitely coming and if you have a request or any suggestion about more historical parallels let me know, I’m more than glad to make them🤗