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moongothic · 7 months

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Yeah hello hi I've been falling deep into the Crocodad Rabbithole and my brain is being consumed by small crocodile-shaped worms

So I've done what any reasonable person would do, I went back to rewatch some scenes from Alabasta and Marinford to psychoanalyze Crocodile and try to figure out what the fuck his deal is because genuinely the more I think about it the more questions I have and the more I want answers. And because I'm deranged I need to write all my thoughts down into an incoherent essay and release it into the world

So please, come along with me while and let's be Extremely Normal About Sir Crocodile Together and speculate about his ~Secret Past~

Quick note, my quickest access to some of these episodes is either through unsubbed episodes (not bothering with getting screenshots since there's no subs, also my Japanese is plenty good enough to not need it here) or through Ancient, Questionable Fansubs so don't get too hung up on the phrasing in the subbed screenshots- like they're not entirely inaccurate but y'know

The reason I want to do this is just that... Like I've been a fan of OP since 2008, when I was in middle school. I don't think I ever really tried to think deeper about this series in general at that time, because I was a kid. For a long time to me Crocodile had just been Some Greedy Asshole who tried to take over a country to obtain a tool of mass destruction and IDK destroy the world? Just a very classic Bad Guy McVillianMan, because I had not bothered to think about his character and question anything before.

But now I have brainworms due to the Crocodad Theory, and this is fucking One Piece, you never fucking know how deep a rabbithole can go with this bloody series. So let's go, let's try to figure out what the fuck is Crocodile's deal, because I need to get these brainworms out of my fucking system

I just want to start with this one quick throw-away line because it's kind of a sidenote. Also like. This is such a funny fucking thing for Crocodile to say if he is Luffy's dad. Like.

That's so fucking funny if he's Luffy's dad holy shit

But what really gets me here is that like... Like while I'm like 70% sure Crocodile is trans, there's still a part of me that's like "there's no fucking way Crocodad is real". Let alone, this be some kind of a hint Oda planted to suggest that this early on. Like it sounds absurd. And yet at this point in One Piece, Oda had already started planning out and laying out the groundwork for so many lore and plot-relevant concepts, ranging from shit like everything about Robin, the Poneglyphs, the Ancient Weapons etc. He had already started the "Prince Sanji ARG" (aka dropping the tiniest fucking hints to Sanji's Hidden Backstory that people were able to pick up on and make accurate predictions with about Sanji's backstory). There's fucking Laboon, and about a bajillion other things. And possibly most importantly, by this point Oda had already revealed both Luffy's father and grandfather to the readers, not to mention he even introduced Ace and vaguely hinted at Sabo! It's not like Oda had everything perfectly planned out from the very begining, that is objectively not the case at all. But it also literally would not be unlike Oda to drop hints to a character's backstory like this. He has been doing that for years, and had already started by the time we met Crocodile. Like it feels insane and yet it's perfectly plausible. And if he had Luffy's dad, grandfather and two siblings planned out in his head already at this point, it should not be that much of a stretch to believe that Oda knows and no doubt has known for the past two decades who Luffy's mom is (regardless of if that's Crocodile or not)

All this to say. Crocodile's comment about what Cobra said to Vivi when they reunited is a funny, sarcastic comment. But it would take a whole new meaning if Crocodad was real. Because it really would be perfectly normal if he did/had wondered what he would say to his long lost child if they were ever reunited. And really that just makes his roast turn sad.

Anyways

In Alabasta, we do get a very clear image that Crocodile does not like the World Government, not just because he's a Big Meanie Pirate who wants to conquer the world, but because he does seem to look down on how the Marines + World Government do their "justice" (which, y'know, knowing what we know now about the Government. Fair. That's entirely fair.)

He also dislikes Vivi's "idealism" of wanting to save everyone without bloodshed or anyone losing their lives (especially for her sake)

We learn that he is a broken man with broken dreams. Also he seems to be aware where he (supposedy) belongs in the Grand Line's power hierarchy, as in, he needs Pluton because he knows he's not strong enough in combat that he could take down anyone, let alone the World Government by himself (though he would still make a beeline for Whitebeard's head the second he saw him at Marinford, which, y'know, bold move)

And of course, we learn in Impel Down that Crocodile and Iva-chan have some beef. We can not say for 100% sure what that beef is (like the theory he's trans is very obvious and plausible, but until Oda spills the beans we won't know for a fact what the beef is), but we know that they knew each other. And if Crocodile knew Iva-chan, a high-ranking founding member of the Revolutionary Army, then it is genuinely plausible that Crocodile could also have known Dragon and/or been a member of the Revolutionary Army as well.

Since overthrowing the World Nobles and the Government are the Revolutionary Army's goal, the fact that they're trying to obtain weapons and people for their cause etc, Crocodile's view of the Government and his "Operation Utopia" does kind of align with the Revolutionary Army's

But we did also learn from Iva that "Crocoboy" isn't quite trustworthy. Needless to say, even if Croc used to be a part of the Army, he most certainly left YEARS ago, and clearly not on good terms.

Also, an interesting note, is that at Marineford when Luffy and co finally arrive at the battlefield (episode 466, 17:25 minutes in), when Garp spots the group, he makes a specific comment about Crocodile being there together with the revolutionaries and the prison escapees, believing they can't all be here to fight for the same cause. Which is an interesting thing for him to point out specifically. Like Jinbei was another powerful person who entered that battlefield at the same time, and while Jinbei did clarify to Sengoku that he's quitting being a Shichibukai and was there to save Ace, it's still maybe a little odd Garp didn't think it was worth mentioning that Jinbei had also "allied" with the prison escapees and the revolutionaries to enter the battlefield. Like it was Crocodile only whom he thought needed to be pointed out. I don't think Garp's comment adds at all to Crocodad because it would frankly make little to no sense (like we're all assuming Crocodile didn't know Dragon's lastname, which is why he never realized Luffy was his son (despite knowing Luffy's lastname), but if Crocodile knew Garp was Dragon's father then surely he'd realize Dragon's lastname would be Monkey, right), but it could maybe add to the idea that Crocodile might've been a part of the Revolutionary Army in the past, as Garp could be aware of something like that, thus he'd be puzzled by Crocodile's presencee. Point is, it's an interesting comment, make of it what you will

EDIT 2: Ended up going back to reread parts of Marineford and turns out ^that^ was an anime-only addition from Toei. Like Garp does make a comment about how these people probs aren't at the battlefield for the same reasons but did not specifically point out Crocodile or anything. So. I wasted enough time adding these paragraphs to the post, I ain't deleting 'em. But y'know.

EDIT: Minor addition, because I just remembered how Crocodile really went like out of his way to taunt Vivi about how she "can't stop the rebellion" and save her people. Which, y'know, is a perfectly normal Villian Thing To Do. But we know Crocodile does not think fondly of the World Nobles just like he dislikes the Government. Even if Cobra was a "good monarch" who genuinely cared for his people, he was still a king, and the Nefertari family and the Kingdom of Alabasta were a part of the World Government. The thing Crocodile specifically wanted to destroy. And this is just another one of those "surely that wasn't somekinda foreshadowing" but god fucking dammit what if Crocodile telling a(n unknowing) representative of the World Government that she can't stop "the rebellion", or the revolution if I may, (regardless of if he's allied with them or not) was actually meant to be like foreshadowing. Oda I swear to fucking god---

Anyway, so, Crocodile might've been a part of the Revolutionary Army at one point (the army was formed after the Ohara Incident 22 years ago, and for Crocodad Theorizing, Luffy was born 19 years ago), but if he did he must have left on bad terms for unknown reasons, and we can tell that although his goals in general could vaguely match that of the Revolutionaries, his methods most certainly don't.

Whether or not his methods and his worldview tie to his leaving the Army is unknown. Because we don't really know when and how his worldview was formed.

Like did Crocodile leave the Army because he became a cynical asshole who was willing to make any kind of sacrifice for his goals (thus he no longer fit in with the rest of the Revolutionary Army), realized he was far too weak to ever become Pirate King and thus decided to go looking for Pluton? Or did Crocodile suggest to the Army they should try to obtain an Ancient Weapon to keep casulties to a minimum (still in line with the Army), only ending up getting kicked out (big weapon bad), and soon realizing he had no chance at making a change in the world without "cracking a few eggs"?

Like it doesn't nececarily make a massive difference,, since the end result is still the same, but it does kind of affect the context and how one might view him, right

Of course, there's then the Forbidden Third Option, that Crocodile left due to

Gender issues (internalized shame of being trans and not having it in him to stay around people who had known him)

Postpartum depression

Dragon just divorced Crocodile either due to being straight (in a sad, accepting way) or due to being simply unaccepting and frankly homophobic, regardless, Crocodile leaves with a broken heart

Something else and/or a combo of the above, really, we could speculate endlessly here about what could've happened

(Though I will say that Crocodile's '"trust issues"' and how he views people as disposable could like. I dunno. Be explained if he had gone through some heartbreak and was left permanently unable to open up to people, let alone trust anyone)

I dunno, there's a lot of options, a lot of things to considder.

But there is one more thing that I do want to note on as it could potentially debunk the Crocodad Theory entirely.

It's that Iva-chan didn't know Dragon had a son.

(Episode 441, 9:50 minutes) By which I mean, Iva-chan wasn't shocked to find out Luffy was Dragon's son, rather, they were shocked there was a son to begin with. (To the point they thought Ace was also Dragon's son until Luffy cleared it up for them later) While it's not a massive leap to believe that Crocodile and Dragon knew each other (since Crocodile knew Iva-chan), nor is it a massive leap to believe that Iva-chan transed Crocodile's gender after having Luffy... It does become a bit of a leap to believe Iva-chan didn't know about Dragon having a child with Crocodile before giving Croc the Magic HRT. Like if they had a relationship that resulted in a baby and a divorce, how did Iva not know about any of it, especially when it's more than likely that Iva could not have transitioned Crocodile until after the baby was born (let's not think about how Iva-chan's powers would work on a pregnant person too much)

We do also get this flashback (in episode 441, immidiately after Luffy reveals his dad's identity to Iva) where Iva-chan questions Dragon about how he always stares out towards East Blue when the wind blows, wondering if Dragon has family out there whom he's thinking about (Dragon refusing to comment on it). This does very much confirm that regardless of who Dragon had Luffy with, Iva has no fucking clue who, where and how any of that happened. And althought I personally feel like Iva not knowing would debunk Crocodad, if Crocodile still somehow was Luffy's dad, Iva-chan would canonically not know about it. If Iva didn't know Dragon had a relationship that resulted in a baby, then regardless of if Iva even knew Crocodile got pregnant once, they would not be able to connect those dots.

Now let's be clear, there's many potential scenarios where Crocodad could still be real, scenarios that could explain why and how Iva-chan didn't know about Luffy nor about Dragon and Crocodile having a relationship*. Like it would not be difficult at all to come up with an explanation for it. But in my mind, I feel like the more you have to figure out and explain how the theory could still be plausible, the less plausible it actually feels. Like the more I need to go out of my way to explain it, the more forced it seems.

*(For example, maybe the two kept their relationship a secret, and when Crocodile got pregnant he """left on a mission""" that happened to take like 4-10 months, during the time realizing he was trans. Once the baby had arrived he returned the baby to Dragon in secret for him to deal with, got a divorce for one reason or another*, and sought out Iva-chan to start a new life, Iva thus never found out about anything, just knew that Crocodile left one day after coming out. Like that's one plausible scenario.)

*Hey remember the potential Forbidden Reasons to why Crocodile might've left the Army? What if it was Dragon's and/or Crocodile's idea? Remember how when Jinbei is trying to escape Marinford with the unconcious Luffy, Crocodile tells Jinbei to do better job at "protecting those he wants to protect", a line that felt really sudden and odd coming from Crocodile of all people? What if the two knew their child would be in grave danger if he was ever raised within the army (absolutely not a place for a baby)? What if they knew their baby would become a target for the World Government to hunt, much like Roger's lost child was, if the Government found out Dragon had a baby? What if they wanted to make sure nothing bad ever happened to their baby and were willing to do anything to protect the baby? Even if it meant they'd never see their child grow up? Even if it meant hiding your child from your best friend, pretending to have a horrible fallout with them and transing your gender because Oda doesn't know what gender dysphoria is? Just so nobody would ever find out you had a child?

Mind you. I do not want anybody to think this is an actual argument for Crocodad. Like I could write a dozen different fanfics about how Crocodile could be Luffy's other dad, and they would all be just as much pure speculation with nothing to support them as the above suggestions. It is an example of what could have happened, and a deeply interesting thought, but it is just a theory at best.

In the end, it doesn't really matter though, because until the day Oda reveals Luffy's mom and/or Crocodile's backstory to us, we will truly never know for sure What The Fuck Crocodile's Deal Is

And I'll be just stuck with these brainworms, making myself sad by thinking about sad scenarios where Crocodad could be real, because truly, if it's canon, ain't no way it won't be sad

EDIT 3: Originally I thought it'd be good enough if I just rewatched some parts here and there, but in the end I just fucking absolutely caved the fuck in and went and reread The Good Parts of Marineford. Mainly because I knew I was forgetting things and Toei adding/changing things can affect a character reading. Also it was just going to be easier to go through the manga and literally just all of Crocodile's scenes into an image folder for easier browsing, mainly because there's so much shit that happens between those scattered scenes it can be hard to like focus on one thing (especially if you're trying to specifically FIND those scattered scenes and appearances)

So yeah. Coming back a few days later to add shit to this god forsaken post. I need help

Actually changed my mind and made a separate post to continue this nonsense, enjoy

#Moon posting #One Piece #Sir Crocodile #I am being so very normal about Crocodile #So SO very normal #I'm sorry this is so fucking incoherent I just can not form a coherent thought about this for the life of me #Also sorry I had to use random OP reaction pics. This was a long ass post and I desperately needed to break up the text walls somehow #For the record while I doubt Crocodad is real I am 100000% emotionally invested in it and WANT it to be real #I'm just not convinced Oda can write a trans character this fucking nuanced #And I think I'd prefer Crocodad not being real over Crocodad being real but Stupid and/or Transphobic #Which fucking sucks because genuinely. Crocodad easily has the potential to be the one of the most tragic backstories in the series #But I don't trust Oda. And that's why I'm so doubtful above all else #Anyway yeah Crocodile has made me completely deranged someone please help #My brain needs to be vacuumed or something to get rid of the worms #OP Meta

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