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sukunasdirtylaugh · 2 months

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Addicted to the idea of an ex!convict geto who is on the run. You married him young at the fresh age of 19 in Vegas, only for him to ‘abandon’ your marriage never to be seen again. Nearly 4 years have passed and you’re now a moderately prestigious singer at mafia!gojo’s club, the blue dragon.

audiences stack up on weekends until Satoru introduces you to an associate of his called Kento. He’s tall, handsome, and mature in ways you didn’t know you wanted or needed. After a few visits to the club, he asks you out for dinner. A relationship instantly clicked with the businessman that suddenly everyone knew you were his. Until a mysterious letter appears on your doorstep one day. Attached is a familiar pink ribbon and all black lighter.

“My men wouldn’t do that,” your now boyfriend shakes his head. “No one knows about him but me.”

“Ken, you’re the only one to know about him. No one knows about him except you and Satoru. So please, if this is a prank, tell me.”

“I’m quite offended you think I would casually play with the emotions of the woman I have invested all my time in.” He says, “I’ll go talk to Satoru if he knows anything, but it’s for the best if you cancel tonight’s show.” You pull away from the protective hold he has on your waist and hiss. “I won’t cancel a show. Tonight’s the premiere, a lot of Satoru’s clients have invested thousands in tonight’s event.”

“Cancel it,” your blond partner whispers, “I’ll pay the difference, stay the night at my-“ but your agitated nature makes you turn him down.

“I said no! I’ll continue the show, and you can’t say anything about it. It’s my career, kento. And you can’t decide when to sing for me.”

He should have known it had to do with your hyper independence, your need to still depend on your own income after depending on what Nanami considered a reaction of yours after your relationship with a cowardly no good for nothing scum bag who left his wife.

After his disappearance, search warrants for him went on the national level until his presence was declared inconclusive 3 weeks later. Months later, it was rumored he was found dead.

But no body was found.

Now in tonight’s stage, everyone is dressed in the 9’s, with kento leaning against a wall with crossed arms, looking over the audience as you sing prettily. That is until you see a dark figure, long black hair with a familiar silver wedding band on his fourth finger. What sets him apart is the drink on the table.

Suguru.

(wrote this part one and this part two as a result^)

#I’m sleep deprived I should delete this but I’ve had this idea for over a year I need to post about this in order to shut up #so suguru didn’t die but he’s back #and his now ex wife is with a protective kento #it’s so messy I’m sorry but someone please understand the concept of mf #it #***IT #jeez #okay that’s it thank you for coming to my Ted talk #gojo #geto #Nanami #kento #Nanami kento #geto suguru #gojo satoru #jjk #jujutsu kaisen #mafia Nanami #mafia kento

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gay-otlc · 1 year

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hi honest sincere question how can a man be a lesbian? can amab men be lesbians?

Hi! Thanks for asking respectfully. I am going to answer your question in significantly more detail than you probably wanted. Be warned.

The main reason I think men can be lesbians is: I think people can use whatever words they think most accurately describe their identity and/or experience. These words might not necessarily be words that they are, but still words that they use to describe themselves.

Lesbian does have a lot of feminine connotations, and can cause dysphoria for many men, so men who use both terms have often put a lot of thought into it. I might not understand their reasons, but I'm sure they have their reasons.

You don't need to understand to be respectful, but if you're curious, here is an explanation of why some men choose to identify as lesbians. This got so long that I'm dividing it with subtitles. I'm so sorry if you didn't want to read all this.

Lesbian Trans Men

Men who identify as lesbians tend to be trans men. Of course, wanting to use the label lesbian is a minority of trans men who like women! Definitely don't assume all trans mlw are comfortable being called a lesbian, or call a trans man a lesbian without permission.

At least for me, labels describe how I feel in the present but also the way I have experienced gender and attraction throughout my life. Right now I'm a man who's attracted to women, but at lunch today I was talking about how it felt in middle school to be a "girl" who liked girls, and I used the word lesbian to communicate that.

Trans men who have spent a very long time identifying as a lesbian and being a part of the lesbian community, often decades, might continue using the label lesbian after transitioning. If a trans man feels like he spent his life as a lesbian rather than a straight man, the former might feel most accurate to describe his experience.

Trans men might also identify as lesbian due to being in the closet. Internally, I feel more like a straight man, but that's not really how I'm seen by the rest of the world. I'm out to a few close friends offline, but pretty much all my other classmates or teachers or relatives or acquaintances think of me as a woman.

If I called myself straight, that would most likely be interpreted as me being a straight woman. I'm open about liking women, though, which means I would either have to be out as lesbian or bi. I definitely shouldn't call myself bi, because I'm not attracted to multiple genders. So, I go with lesbian. It's not the perfect label, but it gets the point across. (The point being "I think women are hot.")

Male =/= Solely, Always, Exclusively Male

Men who are lesbians are not always exclusively men. Multigender people exist! I'm one of them. If someone is bigender with those genders being a man and a woman, and they're attracted to women, I don't think it really makes sense to say that they can't be a lesbian.

I'm assuming you (anon) support nonbinary lesbians, since that's the general trend I've noticed among those who are trans-inclusive but don't understand male lesbians. Some nonbinary people will also identify as men. If nonbinary people can be lesbians, nonbinary men can be lesbians.

A genderfluid person might sometimes be a man and sometimes be another gender(s) that are more commonly included in lesbianism, and like women, and use both labels.

This could apply to anyone regardless of assigned gender, so those are some examples of how a man assigned male at birth could be a lesbian.

AMAB Male Lesbians

As for whether men who were AMAB can be lesbians... yes, but I want to clarify that not just any cis man should go "lol I'm a lesbian" because it's funny. Someone would need to put thought into why the feel like lesbian is the best label for them.

In the case of a man who was AMAB, they would probably feel like lesbian is a good descriptor due to having a complex relationship with their gender. Being genderqueer and being an AMAB man or AFAB woman are not mutually exclusive.

Gender Non Conformity

There's a type of identity that I believe is referred to as a cusp identity, or something like that? It is where someone might blur the line or exist in the grey area between two different identities with an overlap in a lot of experiences.

There might be someone who is on the cusp right between being a trans woman and an extremely gender nonconforming man. They might not be sure which one they fall into, or feel like they exist right in the middle. This person might identify simultaneously as or right between "lesbian trans woman" and "feminine presenting cishet man."

There are also some people who identify with their assigned gender, but pursue medical transition in a way typically associated with a different gender. I have a friend who identifies fully as a cis woman, but thinks she might want to get bottom surgery. It's a type of gender nonconformity, you know?

I don't know anyone who's had this experience in reverse, but it's definitely possible. I'm sure there's a cis man out there somewhere who has or wants to medically transition to "female." And I think it would make sense if this hypothetical person wanted to identify as a lesbian.

Trans Women

Just to be clear, I am NOT saying trans women are men. They aren't. (Unless they're multigender, which is cool.) But monogender trans women aren't men, and definitely should not be misgendered.

Similar to how a straight trans man might be closeted and call himself a lesbian, a lesbian trans woman might be closeted and call herself a man. Again, this lesbian trans woman wouldn't be a man. However, a she might refer to herself as a man to stay safe, or just because she's not comfortable being out yet, but might also refer to herself as a lesbian online or around a few people she's close with. She's not actually a lesbian man, but using both labels would still be enough to get cancelled by those violently against male lesbians.

Some trans women might also still be eggs (not yet realize they're trans). I know that prior to coming out as trans, some gay trans people have said something like "I'm a man, but I want to be in a lesbian relationship" or "I'm a girl and I love reading mlm fanfiction, I like to imagine myself as one of the characters." A trans woman just beginning to explore gender could identify or want to identify with being a lesbian, while still not fully realizing she's not a man. Again- not actually a man, but someone who might use both labels.

Arguments Against Lesbian Men

Now, I know there are a lot of reasons this is controversial, and some of them are even in good faith. However, they are still misguided.

"It's Misgendering Trans Men"

Many people are opposed to trans men being lesbians because they're trans men and would feel dysphoric if called a lesbian, or are an ally and don't want trans men to be misgendered.

That's a very understandable concern, but see my earlier note about not calling a trans man a lesbian without permission.

Trans men aren't a monolith, and everyone's comfortable with different things. Some trans men are comfortable wearing dresses and some trans men are comfortable being called "sis" or "queen" or something, but many aren't, and that's all okay!

I think people just need to be clear that even though some trans men are okay with this, it doesn't apply to all trans men.

"Cishet Men Will Pretend To Be Lesbians"

Another reason people are against male lesbians is because they're concerned cis straight men will call themselves lesbians for no reason other than they think it's funny, or they want to make lesbians uncomfortable. Which I agree; that's shitty, and they shouldn't do that.

But I feel like most of the time, they do make it pretty clear they don't genuinely identify as a lesbian. People with complex or contradicting identities generally understand that their labels don't make a lot of sense at first glance, so they tend to offer a short explanation. They have no obligation to go on and on defending their right to exist, but a sentence or two is good and most people are totally willing to provide that.

I've had friends ask about me being both a trans man and a lesbian, and I've given a short explanation, and it works! Because they aren't assholes! The main one that comes to mind happened shortly after I told my best friend I was changing my name, and it went something like this.

Me, after seeing a pretty girl: Oh my god, I'm so gay for her. Friend: Do you still identify as gay? I thought you might want to be called straight now, since you're a trans guy. Me: I'm, like, both a man and a woman? So lesbian and straight man are both fine with me. Friend: Okay, cool. Let me know if you decide you don't want to be called lesbian anymore since I don't want to make you feel dysphoric.

And then that was it! It wasn't a big deal. With just a short conversation, I established that I was a lesbian man because I'm bigender and not because I'm just saying it for the lols.

I do understand the desire to stop cishet men from making lesbian jokes, but the thing is, there's no reliable way to do so that won't also end up harming some queer people. I mean, TERFs argue that trans women can't be lesbians because then what's to stop a straight man from invading the lesbian community by falsely claiming he's a trans woman, you know? But just because some people might abuse other queer peoples' genuine identity, doesn't mean no one can use that identity.

"They're Invading Lesbian Spaces"

Those against male lesbians are trying to stop men from invading lesbian spaces. While I agree that lesbian spaces should be for lesbians, and I think it's wrong for people to attend an all-lesbian support group or something if they know they're not a lesbian, I also know I can't stop them.

What are we supposed to do, go around forcing everyone there to prove they are a Real Actual Lesbian? Who decides what a Real Actual Lesbian is? How do we verify if people are telling the truth on the questions asked to prove Real Actual Lesbian? Keeping 100% of non lesbians out of lesbian spaces just isn't a feasible goal and it's not fair to make everyone prove their identity like that.

If someone in a lesbian safe space is causing any harm to others, they should be kicked out, but this applies even if they are a Real Actual Lesbian. Lesbians are perfectly capable of hurting other lesbians and being a lesbian doesn't give them a free pass to get out of consequences.

Male Lesbians Are Rapists

An extension of the "invading lesbian spaces" arguments is that lesbian men are forcing or pressuring lesbians to date or sleep with men.

However, lesbian men don't necessarily expect or even want other lesbians to be attracted to them. Lesbians don't have to be attracted to every other lesbian in the world! Sometimes, people don't find another person attractive, and that's fine. Sometimes, people are not attracted to a certain gender, and someone of that gender being a lesbian won't change that.

I'm not attracted to nonbinary people, and there are plenty of nonbinary lesbians, and I'm not attracted to them. Which is fine! Them being lesbians doesn't mean I have to be attracted to them, and me not being attracted to them doesn't make them not lesbians. Accepting someone as their identity doesn't mean you have to find them attractive.

I might be attracted to a lesbian and ask her out, and she might respond "Sorry, I'm not attracted to men and since you're bigender I wouldn't be comfortable sleeping with you."

What I would not say: "But I'm a lesbian! You accepted me into your lesbian safe space, which means you have to sleep with me. Checkmate."

What I would say: "I understand, have a nice day."

In the above scenario, if someone in that situation refused to accept that the lesbian woman wasn't attracted to them, that would be shitty no matter what. It would be shitty if that person was a male lesbian, and it would be shitty if that person was a cis woman. Because it is shitty to not respect people's boundaries.

This isn't something only lesbian men are capable of doing. Most lesbian men are perfectly respectful people who would not rape anyone, and if they do? They're shitty, but they're not shitty because they're a lesbian man. They're shitty because they're a rapist.

Claiming that someone would lie about their gender identity to rape people is entry-level transphobia. You cannot believe "male lesbians are just lying so they can rape lesbians" and then call yourself a trans ally. They are mutually exclusive.

Political Lesbianism

Finally, this argument is derived from TERF rhetoric. If you're not familiar with political lesbianism, it's a radical feminist ideology that can be summarized by "don't date or fuck men." Being a lesbian was a feminist choice that wasn't necessarily about attraction to women, but about not being involved with men. This sounds quite a lot like the common lesbian definition used against male lesbians; "non men loving non men." A major component of TERFism is trying to keep men (or those they believe to be men) away from women's/lesbian spaces, and including trans women doesn't change the fact that the ideologies stem from the exact same place. There have been anti male lesbian posts that genuinely sound exactly like a TERF wrote them, which is pretty telling. If you're violently against any men ever being lesbians, odds are you've been drinking the TERF juice, and you probably need to unpack that.

Conclusion

This is ridiculously long and I have been writing it for the last two and a half hours. I am very thankful and also kind of apologetic to anyone who just read every single word I vomited out.

Basically, even if you disagree with someone using both "man" and "lesbian" to label themself, I would recommend leaving them alone. They're describing their identity in the way that works best for them, and they're not hurting anyone. You don't need to like their identity, and you definitely don't need to understand it, but you do need to be respectful. It costs $0 to not be an asshole.

If you're considering telling a lesbian man their identity is invalid, take my advice and simply... don't do that. There are so many other things you could do with your time.

The queer community has a lot of problems. The world in general has even more problems. In the grand scheme of things, someone identifying as a male lesbian literally does not matter.

That's finally all, thanks for reading.

#anon i am so fucking sorry you did NOT sign up for this monster of an essay #rip #also to clarify most of the time when i said you i wasn't talking to anon specifically #just a general you #i know it's confusing so yeah wanted to make sure that was clear #lesbian trans men #lesbian men #male lesbian #multigender lesbian #idk what other things i should tag #lesbian #pride tag #okay i will shut up now

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