#now who the fuck do you think you’re arguing w bc it certainly isn’t me
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HGDDGGSFGDSGHDFFFF
#yeah I recently made a post making fun of LDS prophets’ shitty facial hair bc I’m a devout Mormon. this is the only possible explanation#my cultural Mormonism and lack of intellectual depth is also why I think *checks notes* you can write compelling literature about romantic#conflict. I need to delete that post the amount of takes on there that are like#now who the fuck do you think you’re arguing w bc it certainly isn’t me
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I love your writing so much!! Do you still take prompts? If so could you write Ben and Callum dealing with/ calling out each others self destructive tendancies???
thank you so much!! i mean i don’t think i ever asked for prompts but i’ve been getting a steady stream of them anyway so ?? who am i to say no lmao???
i couldn’t really think of a way to work all of that into a fic so i hope you don’t mind headcanons instead!!! (also i am SO sorry this took so long!!)
callum dealing with ben’s self destructive behaviours:
ben has had like every self destructive behaviour going at different times in his life but the ones that worry callum the most are his excessive drinking when he’s in a bad place emotionally (esp after ben confesses that one of his biggest fears is that he’ll end up like his dad), his insistent, reckless criminal activity (bc it so often is reckless and also completely stupid) and his self esteem issues leading to self sabotage when it comes to their relationship (bc ben thinks he’s Terrible and that callum deserves better and so will try to push him away to prevent himself from being hurt in the long run (it never works))
and when they first get into a relationship callum feels like he can’t pull ben up on it.... like he doesn’t have the right... and also he’s scared of pushing ben away or pissing him off, leading to them breaking up or smth so for a while he just keeps his mouth shut and does his best to pick up the pieces after the fact
but after a while callum gets frustrated with it and eventually starts calling ben out about it - passing comments at first, but they (and he) eventually become more serious and he becomes less willing to let ben get away with doing his reckless bullshit
and it’s not until ben is doing some dodgy job (for his dad, which somehow makes it worse) and not only ends up black and blue, but also barely ends up outrunning the police that callum really, truly loses his shit. like it all comes tumbling out - everything he thinks, everything he feels in one long, endless stream while ben is sat on the couch nursing his bleeding forehead and potentially broken ribs.
callum tells him that he thinks he’s an idiot, first and foremost. ‘still doing all these stupid jobs for your dad, and for what? to prove a point? to prove you’re capable? that you’re a ‘real man’? it’s bullshit, ben. most of the time the only reason he calls up or comes around is because he wants something from ya, how have you not realized that by now? and now look at ya. look at the state you’re in. you think it does lexi any good, seeing you like this? you don’t even need to do these jobs, ben - you’ve got the arches, you’ve got the car lot; it’s not like you need the money. so what is it, ben? the thrill of it? or do you just like being being beaten up? is that it?’
ben tries to argue back, but callum is On One and he’s not having any of it
‘and what now- what, are you gonna drag yourself to e20 and drown your sorrows for the rest of the night? or am i the one who’s gonna have to get you something to drink? some liquid courage before you go and tell phil you’ve messed his job up?’
and that’s when callum sort of stops and really looks at ben. and ben looks fucking pitiful, sitting there. he looks destroyed by callum’s words. callum sits down on the opposite side of the room, suddenly feeling drained.
‘you can’t keep doing this. i can’t keep doing this - i think you’re alright and then all of a sudden you’re going off on one again and no one ever knows where you are, what you’re doing, who you’re with and it- it scares me, ben. my phone rings and i’m scared that it’s gonna be the police, or a hospital, or worse.’ ‘alright, callum.’ ‘no it’s not alright! what if you had been caught today, ay? you’ve got previous, ben, you’d end up in prison-’ ‘alright!’ ‘-do you think lexi deserves that? only seeing her dad once a week during visitation, a table between you?’ ‘enough!’
and if ben didn’t look broken before, he certainly does now. looks fucking shattered.
‘i don’t want to lose you, ben. not to prison or to anything else.’
ben just beckons him over and callum practically folds himself into ben’s side (gently, bc ben is hurt). bc he’s angry, yes, but he’s also so, so relieved ben is here and not in some cell or a hospital bed. or worse. and ben just kisses his head and tries to think.
and you know, those stern words don’t fix everything, but ben certainly heard the message loud and clear. he tries to be better - only take the less risky jobs, always checks in with callum so he knows he’s alright. still drinks, but gets drunk less.
baby steps.
ben dealing with callum’s self destructive behaviours:
callum doesn’t really have self destructive behaviours in the same sense as ben - he’s more prone to just straight up self sabotage, though it’s not necessarily deliberate? like often he’ll do it without even realizing he’s doing it
like his relationship w ben - callum doesn’t really know how to be in a proper relationship! his only proper relationship was with whitney and then he would basically follow her lead and do whatever she wants bc he a) was inexperienced and b) was gay and keeping like a huge part of himself secret from her. so he’s used to staying quiet to keep the peace, probably thinks that’s normal.
but ben hates it. hates that callum feels like he has to keep secrets or pretend he’s ok when he’s not just to keep ben happy. hates that he thinks that that’s how relationships work. and ben doesn’t really blame callum and doesn’t really get angry at him, but he does get frustrated bc callum doing all of that does lead to problems in their relationship.
and like ben just wants to help callum! but he can’t help when he doesn’t know what’s wrong! or that there even is anything wrong! because callum is so used to keeping secrets and having to hide who he is and how he truly feels away! and that’s something that they both kind of have to work on: ben has to learn to not get so frustrated abt the whole thing bc that just makes it worse, and callum has to work on being more open and honest about whatever’s bothering him, about the past, about his ptsd etc. and they do try, bc they both realize that if they don’t, their relationship is not going to work - callum especially.
and also extension to that: i’ve said it a million times but callum is too nice for his own good and that will lead him to spreading himself too thin just to keep everyone happy and/or to help everyone out, even when it means doing things he doesn’t really want to do (they’re complete opposites in that sense - there are a few exceptions but 95% of the time ben ain’t doin shit for no one unless there’s smth in it for him lmao). and that frustrates ben!! he’s like ‘who tf are you working so hard for! who are you stressing yourself out for! why are you overworking yourself to do extra shifts at the albert when you don’t even work there!!! you ain’t even gettin paid!!! like i know she’s my mum but she’s taking liberties!!!’
like it really frustrates ben to no end and he’s always telling callum that he needs to learn to say no to people bc he really will work himself into the ground one of these days and ben quite likes him where he is
but yeah apart from that? i don’t think callum has any other self destructive behaviours. literally he’s such an angel that the only self destructive behaviours are the fact that he’s so nice and wants so badly to help other people and keep everyone around him happy, even if it’s to his own detriment!!!
yh lmao sorry if this isn’t exactly what you had in mind, but i hope you enjoy it anyway anon (and again, sorry it took so long) 💞💞
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I have a genuine question. How often do you actually deal with antis? I've been following you for a bit now and it seems every so often you bring up antis. I've certainly kept my interest about thorki shut and locked away in a box from my friends for the simple fact that all of them think it's incest. It's not an easy topic of conversation but you just seem to handle all the antis so well? Also on an off note about beast!Thor, his favorite pass time must just be rutting into Loki 24/7 🤔
when someone tells you that you're romanticizing abuse [bc i made a stockholm moodboard for a fic] I don't know what I'm supposed to say other than I don't condone it but I write about it? Is writing about abusive relationships bad in writing??? you're the only person i ask for advice so thank you for anything in advance
i’m honestly really glad you came to me. i really do like discussing this topic in this kind of way bc i’ll never reblog an anti or answer an anti ask. even if you’re arguing against them, i don’t think it’s worth it to argue against them if it means also spreading what they’re saying
the basic premise of all anti behavior and ideology is censorship. that’s all it is.
“i don’t like this topic, you need to stop writing it and making art for it. if you don’t stop there will be consequences.”
that is censorship and that is the kind of shit fandom has had to fight ever since there’s been fandom. women, poc, lgbt+ folks have been dealing with people telling us what we can and can’t write and enjoy for... well, probably forever. but we’re still here, creating the kind of content we want to see and indulge in.
as far as how to deal with antis, my advice is to ignore, ignore, ignore. they want what any bully wants: attention
you stop paying attention, you stop giving them time they don’t deserve from you, they’ll die off. there’s no point in fighting them directly. produce the content you want to see and enjoy what you want to enjoy. drown them out. you don’t owe them a response just because they come to you. they don’t have any qualms about being rude to you, so be rude back and just ignore them. i love blocking antis, personally. take out the garbage, y’know?
antis use the words ship and support as synonyms because they think that shipping is some radical call to action for lgbt rep instead of entertainment
shipping is not activism. shipping is about entertainment and enjoyment, nothing more
so this is why i have this very blasé attitude about antis. i just don’t give a fuck about them beyond making posts trashing their idiocy. because that’s what it is. it’s idiocy, but going deeper it’s puritanism at its finest. antis use fox news scare tactic logic under the guise of some pseudo feminist agenda because they don’t understand and don’t want to understand that enjoying dark fiction as entertainment isn’t equivalent to some greater moral stance
they use the same argument about shipping and fanfiction that WASP moms use against video games and loud music: that enjoying and consuming it will make you think it’s normal and there’s nothing wrong with it irl
okay, well, vlad the impaler never played CoD or far cry and caligula never watched hentai but we know why i’m bringing them up in this context without even heading over to wikipedia, don’t we?
they use the words abuse and pedophilia waaaaaayy too liberally and they’re doing more harm than good because they’re twisting and warping words that should have very specific meanings by using them so goddamn vaguely and irresponsibly
my own personal theory is that these people are terrified that if they don’t yell in opposition to these topics 24/7 and actively attack content creators that they’d probably enjoy it, and they’ve been so programmed by the echo chamber of tumblr and twitter that they think this means they’re bad people.
spoiler alert: that’s not what it means
i literally watched a circle jerk on twitter where screenshots of some mafia starker au got tweeted and retweeted w/ pictures of someone pouring bleach into cereal and people had asked to see more of the post. if you really don’t like something, you shouldn’t hate-read about it. it’s not productive, it does more harm than good if that’s the actual issue rather than some reverse psychology-style enjoyment they’re probably getting out of it.
they claim to hate this shit so much, but they’re reading hundreds and thousands of words and putting these images in their heads of their own free will. i don’t do that with shit i genuinely dislike. i avoid it.
i see antis say they enjoy thorki fanart because they think it’s cute, then they see it’s tagged thorki and they have an over the top reaction because the nature of anti ideology states you should never enjoy something like that, so if you do then you have to make the excuse of ignorance to prove that you’re still innocent and pure. enjoyment is apologism to them because they aren’t content to simply attack fan creators, they want to try and drive away the people who consume our art as well because they know you’re the cornerstone of fandom. consumers are why creators create. yeah, i write because i enjoy it, but i also write to connect to my readers and have people commenting on my fics when they like them.
it’s also worth noting that antis only ever talk about shipping. they only talk about sexual and romantic ships. i’ve never seen an anti talk about (often extreme) levels of violence in canon source material for the ships and characters they want to froth at the mouth over.
seeing someone bleed out and choking on their own blood after being stabbed or shot or bludgeoned? meh
seeing a character who was once a child have a sexual thought about a character who was also once a child and is also their close friend? omg why are we trying to make fandom unsafe for people?
personally, i’ve also noticed that fandoms with darker canon material tend to have more chill fandoms most of the time. i think it also depends on the average age in a given fandom. there’s a major difference between fannibals and steven universe fans, let’s just say that.
creating a moodboard for a dark fic is not “romanticizing abuse” and at this point antis honestly have no fucking idea what that phrase is. they use those words the way a bored CEO uses social media buzzwords and hashtags in a staff meeting
if antis want to see true romanticizing of abuse then they can go to serial killer thirst tags and spot the fucking differences between shippers and people who forget that ted bundy was weak, flaccid, cowardly piece of shit
writing something dark or violent or whatever else and condoning the act or doing the act are different. this is why stephen king isn’t under government surveillance or in prison.
make no mistake, this anti shit only applies to fandom. they’re attacking creators here because creators out at the professional levels don’t give a fuck. they’ve tried, and they’ve failed.
creators at the professional level understand something antis don’t: that being able to reconcile your enjoyment of dark media can be a sign of emotional intelligence and good emotional health. it’s cathartic. it’s allowed to be cathartic.
the most common consumers of dark fiction are members of minority communities and people who’ve been emotionally and/or sexually repressed for one reason or another.
antis want to say that fiction doesn’t exist in a vacuum and they are 100% correct! because writing fanfiction and original fiction that relates to parts of my life that nearly killed me gives me control over something that was beyond me in the original context. writing about fucked up codependent, violent romance allows me to process my shit in a way that’s healthy and produces something fun and enjoyable.
my therapist knows i ship thorki, she knows i write thorki. i’ve had her read pieces of fanfiction i’ve written in addition to pieces of original fiction. y’know what she said? “wow, baylen, that’s vivid. you have a way with words!”
i read her a line out of smart boy and told her what the story was about and this trained professional said “well it’s a productive way to process some emotion that you clearly need to let out”
but you know what? if someone doesn’t have the trauma i have? let them write it, too! let them create and enjoy the fictional content they want! more cake, y’all!
finally getting around to one of the first parts of your ask, lol. thorki is incest. thor and loki are brothers. they were raised believing they were blood brothers, even. loki being adopted doesn’t change a thousand years of personal history where thor looked at loki and thought that they came out of the same woman, y’know?
that’s his brother and in the comics his attachment to loki is even more intense. the mcu nerfed that shit. loki’s life has been intrinsically tied to thor’s ability to feel a full sense of joy.
enjoying an incest ship isn’t some sign of moral depravity. writing abusive relationships isn’t bad. gone girl was made into an award winning movie. art should look like life, and sometimes life fucking sucks. dark stories, sad stories, fucked up holy shit idk if i can go to sleep after i read this stories exist for a reason. we need them. we have to have an outlet for our frustration, our anger, and especially our fear.
so which is the healthier option of these
to write up a piece of fanfiction where two siblings are in love in a way that might be cute and soft or might be destructive, depending on your mood?
or
attacking strangers you don’t know online and threatening violence against anyone who doesn’t think like you do?
i know what kind of person i want to be.
ship and let ship, thanks for reading my doctoral thesis office hours are always
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