#meredith glynn appreciation tag
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I think one of the writers pointed out that hell souls can't go to heaven since 15.02, bc it was stated/clarified in that ep. God just doesn't want to be nice to Winchester helper's anymore. He lets them rot in hell now. Preferably. For ur confused anon.
Hi there, and thanks, but that doesn’t answer the question the anon asked. I answered it here:
https://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/189759386365/did-chuck-only-recently-make-it-so-that-a-soul
They asked if this was how it always was, or if Chuck only made that true in 15.02. Which we don’t know, because it’s intentionally ambiguous. Unless we’re accepting the word of demons who we know are deliberately manipulating the Winchesters to achieve his own goals, and who are both unmasked for that deception and then killed for it in the next episode.
That would be like accepting the word of Lilith in 15.05 as unvarnished honesty, even after we learn that she’s being actively controlled by Chuck.
When analyzing canon, “the writers pointed out” isn’t a consideration. What the writers say isn’t actually canon. What’s on screen is canon. I believe the writer you’re quoting here was attempting to point out that it was set up in canon that souls that have been to Hell can’t go to Heaven without special permission after 15.06 aired, and people on the internet were being dumb over why Sam and Dean couldn’t help Eileen’s soul go to Heaven now. That’s all that clarification was attempting to achieve.
https://twitter.com/Merecuda/status/1197737356368809984
(go read some of the replies from people who don’t understand how canon works, and have missed the whole entire point of this new information... or better yet, don’t. It’s brain-hurty.)
And the author in question, Meredith Glynn, stated that it was “new canon from 15.02.” Which DOES NOT state that it was “always like that” vs “Chuck made it so in 15.02 for his own reasons.” Do you see the difference? Because that’s what my anon was asking. And we literally don’t know which is true.
The opinion that Belphegor was telling the truth, that it had always been like that and exceptions had been made in the past because of Chuck’s fondness for the Winchesters, was neither confirmed nor denied by the author here.
So again, we do not know if this was always the rule, or if this was something Chuck decided should be true in order to punish the Winchesters now, because Chuck needed this to be true for Plot Reasons now.
Because Chuck has done A LOT of things “for plot reasons” since he snapped in 14.20 that were never true before. And he did a lot of things “for plot reasons” even before he snapped, you know? The show is telling us to consider this on every level.
#spn 15.02#spn 15.06#meredith glynn appreciation tag#meredith glynn#oops i've used both of those tags >.>#Anonymous
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no source on this sorry but in glynn's defense i do believe she was the one who wrote the mixtape scene! whenever it was announced that she joined the boys she got a lot of shit and a few of the people who defended her noted that spn/destiel fans should appreciate her because she gave us the mixtape. maybe she's spoken about it before? idk i also follow her and she once replied to a tweet thanking her both for her work on the show in general and the mixtape specifically. i don't remember what the reply was, i think it was a thank you or something? andjsjjsk anyways this is a long way of saying that meredith definitely deserves some love!! not to mention she also helped berens spearhead cas' confession arc. though i also have trouble figuring out her "thing" so to speak like her writing doesn't feel as consistent as others.
“the future” is a glynn berens collab! credit to both of them! as ret marynatural said in the replies “glynn is most reminiscent of davy imo. really solid single ep concepts (amnesia, heist ep, clairewolf) + a dean characterization that's on the sillier side” which tracks! half the battle is just that she’s fighting for recognition among some heavy hitters. someone mentioned “byzantium” in the tags which is also great! she definitively deserves love lol I would have put a bit more effort in the response if I thought it would get this much airplay
#i like glynn!#i know people also don't like unity but i'm. developing opinions on unity.#honestly my season 15 rewatch will probably give me a better idea on glynn#since the first time i 'watched' it i went. very fast#anon#answered#spn
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To me Yockey is arguably the best writer on the show; he is the only one whose episodes I love 100%. It really annoys me that he writes so few eps (last season he only did 3) while Bucklemming gets like 5 with like 3 of them being myth arc ones. Tbh the writing would be SOOOOO much better if he got to do more episodes. Out of curiosity who is your favorite writer?:)
Yockey is great, agreed. :)
I mean, I like most of the writers for different reasons, and can appreciate their stylistic differences, you know? I’ll get to that in a second, but first I’m gonna address the writing room hierarchy for a second… because that’s why the newer writers are only getting 3 episodes each, especially in a shorter season with only 20 slots available…
Dabb, as showrunner, gets the first and last episodes, and this year also the 300th. Last year he co-wrote 13.10 with Bobo, and in s12 he also wrote 12.09, as the post-winter-hellatus episodes.
Dabb’s been around for a really long time, and I get his writing style. Writing the season premiere and season finale every season now, he’s basically setting the foundation that the rest of the season rests on, and he gets the job done.
❂So that’s a total of 3 out of 20 accounted for.
Bobo is essentially next in line, and he has been getting 4-5 episodes per season since 11. 4 in 11 (co-wrote 11.17 with Dabb), 5 in 12 (co-wrote 12.19 with Meredith Glynn), 4 in 13 (co-wrote 12.09 with Dabb). I don’t know if he’s going to have 3 or 4 episodes this season, so I’m gonna guess it will be 3 just for the purposes of estimation…
I LOVE Bobo’s writing. I LOVE that he’s still giving us such powerful Wayward-adjacent content despite the heartbreak of not getting the spinoff we all deserved.
❂So that’s a total of 6 of the 20 accounted for.
This brings me to the three newer writers on the team…
Davy Perez has given us some fantastic episodes. As far as I know, he’ll be getting three again this season. I mean, dude gave us cowboys AND tentacles… and Dean being a complete nerd for comics and horror movies, “I love you, I love all of you,” and Donna kicking ass in 13.11. How can you NOT love that?
❂So that’s a total of 9 of the 20 accounted for.
Meredith Glynn has written some of the most beautiful, heartbreaking, and hopeful character studies that we’ve ever had on this show. She gave us Cas fighting for himself and facing his issues in the Empty, she gave us Dean losing himself and finding himself, and she gave us THE FUCKING MIXTAPE. Heck. Her love for all the characters is just written in big loopy letters all over her episodes.
I don’t know if this information will change, because it’s italicized on Jess’ s14 spoiler sheet, which means it’s still unconfirmed, but Meredith is listed as having four episodes in s14… 5 & 8 are already confirmed, but she’s tentatively listed for 14 and 17, too… She did write four in 12 and 13, as well, so that seems legit. :P
❂ So that’s 13 of the 20 accounted for.
Steve Yockey. Heck he writes such rich, layered episodes. They are a meta goldmine that we could spend weeks analyzing. Isn’t it convenient we’ve got an extra week to revel in 14.06? :D He’s probably on the list for three episodes again this season, and we’re lucky to have them.
❂ So that’s 16 of the 20 accounted for.
That leaves 4 for Bucklemming… and while they have a long history of ickiness and terrible things, they aren’t entirely horrible. I mean, 14.02 got the job done. 13.22 did as well. Heck, 13.18 too. They do write to the themes, and even when they fall short of the other writers in terms of the layering and nuance and meta-level of love for the show, they’re there and they’re not going away. I try to focus on what actually matters in terms of plot advancement in their episodes, and side-eye their bizarre takes on canon and weird retcons that only seem to apply to their episodes.
(and honestly bless the other writers for all their little jabs at some of the eye-roll worthy stuff in their episodes… I am giving significant glances at all of them and sliding them all fresh baked cookies and shots of bourbon, because I see what they did there…)
But yeah, I love all the writers in general (and even try to see the good in bucklemming episodes, because I love this show enough to make the effort worth it to me…)
#spn writers#imma post this and then tag it because the inbox doesn't autocomplete tags >.>#anonymous#this is an andrew dabb appreciation blog (except when it comes to car stuff)#this is a bobo berens appreciation blog#bucklemming canon acrobatics#steve yockey appreciation tag#meredith glynn appreciation tag#davy perez appreciation tag#dabb vs cars
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If you enjoy suffering, join me in watching 2.01 with 14.05 fresh in your mind. Holy heck... this hurrrrrrts, but whoa has Dean grown up since then.
So while John is lying through his teeth about everything he plans to do, telling Sam he needs some spell ingredients for “protection” from the demon, he’s actually planning to summon the demon to make a deal with it. He just Executive Decisions it, effectively forcing Sam and Dean down to the kid’s table, not even giving them any say in the matter... Dean is seeing the bigger picture clearly from outside the narrative, as a disembodied spirit. He gets to say what he’s really feeling, but of course John can’t even hear him. Dean’s not entirely convinced it’s any different than when John could see and hear him:
!DEAN: Come on, Dad. You've gotta help me. I've gotta get better, I've gotta get back in there. I mean, you haven't called a soul for help. You haven't even tried. Aren't you going to do anything? Aren't you even going to say anything?
(he starts walking around the bed)
I've done everything you have ever asked me. Everything. I have given everything I've ever had. And you're just going to sit there and you're going to watch me die? I mean, what the hell kind of father are you?
John has lied to Sam and Dean about the truth about Sam and his abilities, effectively robbing them of their most powerful weapon in the same breath he apologizes to Dean. The implications are horrifying...
And it’s taken how many turns of this narrative screw before Dean could even reach a place where he could have that conversation with Sasha in 14.05?
This whole damn show is suffering, and Meredith Glynn is strip-mining the past to cause me pain today. :P
#spn s14 spoilers#spn 14.05#spn 2.01#the ghost of john winchester#it's spirals all the way down#s14 meta rewatch#oh dean#meredith glynn appreciation tag#spiders georg of the tnt loop
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So.. Do we know what the djinn saw when he looked in Dean's head? I'm a little confused if it was something obvious I missed, or if it's something that's gonna be addressed later...
Narrative tension.
Okay, that’s a bit flippant, but not at all untrue.
In an episode where we literally see Dean doing better (which he confirms at the end of the episode had been the case), beginning to feel like himself again after his week off and his horror movie fantasy hunt last week, what the djinn forced him to see combined with what the djinn told him Michael had done while wearing his face-- that the djinn had thought he was still Michael that entire time-- has shaken him again. Just when he thought he’d begun to find his footing again, this hunt knocked him backward.
Which one would expect given his situation, you know? He went from the “speeding toward any possible way to kill Michael as soon as humanly possible” to “retreating to his nest for comfort purposes” to “working on a case that let him live out a childhood fantasy” in two weeks, and then THIS case knocked him flat again.
It doubled down on the emotional mirror baggage from 14.04, but the Father Drama took place with a real person who’d been once again trapped by a monster and used as both cover for the djinn’s presence (I’m just an innocent nurse with an interest in architecture! I care for my poor patient! Definitely not a monster, nosirreebob!) as well as bait for any hunter.
Remember the hunter they found in the woods, and the lingering “monster” who’d attacked him in the cabin when he found the guy’s body? And the “ghoul” that had attacked Maggie? And then subsequently Maggie’s “deeper fears” emerged after the djinn had time to look deeper and find the AU Starving Vamps that killed her family among her nightmares, so that’s what manifested to keep her locked in that attic generating Nightmare Fuel for the djinn to consume. They’d all taken Patrick Rawling’s form. Makes me wonder-- after learning that the djinn used people’s own fears against them-- if that hunter and Maggie had both interviewed Neil the Djinn Nurse and suspected he was caring for a monster. Which in turn fed back into Rawling’s own personal nightmare of dying alone and unloved in that house, if he was even a little bit aware of what the djinn was doing in his home.
So in the larger sense, regardless of what the djinn saw in Dean’s head, it functions as narrative nightmare fuel for him, and for us. It was an entirely aptly named episode. :)
#spn 14.05#spn s14 spoilers#oh DEAN#meredith glynn appreciation tag#for totally poughkeepsie-ing it outta the park here#Anonymous
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About Season 13 timeline: imo The Scorpion and the Frog was happening while GoT was airing so between July 17 and August 28. If not Dean's line makes no sense. It was probably late in the season so that way Patience can be back to school not too long after that.
Hi there! And that’s true, but I tend to give less weight to throwaway lines that are intended as fourth wall breaks, as well as Dean Snark, for stuff like this.
Dean: Well, looks like gun beats knife, so how about you hand over the safe, and then we’ll all be home in time to watch Game of Thrones.Shrike: I’m more of a book guy.
Which is both Classic Dean Snark, but also a VERY SPECIFIC fourth wall break, because as the superwiki says:
Richard Brake who plays Leonard Shrike played the Night King in seasons 4 and 5 of fantasy TV series Game of Thrones based on the books by George R.R. Martin.
More than anything else, that line was a shoutout to the actor who played Shrike, and a joke. He’s more of a book guy? Well, he literally was IN the tv version, so… the line was just there as a tip of the hat and a lampshade on who Richard Brake is in real life. So a sort of double fourth-wall-break, kicking through the SPN wall as well as the GoT wall with one neat kick.
Dean theoretically could’ve picked ANY well known tv series. He could’ve just said “We’ll be home in time for the eleven o’clock news.” But name another tv series that has as much pop cultural recognition as Game of Thrones. Maybe The Walking Dead? Which wasn’t particularly relevant to the plot of 13.08 (speaking as a writer trying to pull off the joke here), and wasn’t relevant at all to Richard Brake… and which they’ve also already referred to in order to poke the John Winchester/Negan thing in another fourth wall break back in 12.15. They’re unlikely to use the Walking Dead again for anything BUT a John reference.
But in-story, Dean took one look at Shrike, at the situation he’d found himself in with working for Barthamus, playing a strange strategy game against the demon while also being at the mercy of the others involved in this heist, and from what little Dean new of the reclusive collector they were sent to rob, and the parallels to 12.12 and their mission to take out Ramiel… There’s a LOT of familiar crap getting churned up in this situation for Dean… He doesn’t trust ANY of them, really (though he does come to trust Alice eventually, and he DOES figure out that Barthamus and Shrike both had a hidden personal agenda, but that Shrike was the more sympathetic of the two…). He just wants to play this game and get him and Sam out safely, in order to stop yet ANOTHER demon (Asmodeus) from getting his hands on the Macguffin Parchment with the spell to summon a nephilim, thereby putting Jack at risk.
It’s all very Game Of Thrones-y.
Not to mention, the character Alice/Smash shared a number of parallels to Charlie Bradbury, from her mannerisms and the circumstances under which they met right down to the end of the episode when they put Alice on a bus like they did with Charlie in 7.20. Alice even uses the line “Sorry, Charlie” while talking to Dean. And Charlie, in 9.04, watched season one of Game of Thrones with Sam and Dean. Charlie was searching for her own quest in 9.04, and referenced this:
Charlie: Saving people, hunting things, the family business? I am down. But… I was raised on Tolkien, man. I mean, where is all this? Where are my White Walkers and my volcano and magic ring to throw in the damn thing?
White Walkers? *points up to the paragraph where I described Richard Brake’s role on GoT* So in another way it was also a reminder/nod to the friendship Dean had with Charlie.
Do I think Dean literally was concerned about missing the broadcast of a new episode of Game of Thrones? Not in the least. I mean, It airs at 8pm local time in Lebanon, Kansas. Granted, we’re never told where Shrike’s home is, but we’re assuming it’s somewhere in the vicinity of the bunker, within a reasonable driving distance at least… So to get SUPER nit-picky, sunset in Lebanon, Kansas is after 9 pm in late June and July, and it’s already dark out when they arrive at Shrike’s property. So they already would’ve missed Game of Thrones.
Unless it was literally just a nod to the actor, so a nice little fourth wall break, and a joking reference to the sort of life and death strategy game they’d found themselves trapped in.
Oh, and one last thought… Does GoT even air on the same schedule in the Supernatural Universe (which has been established repeatedly to be fundamentally different from our “real” universe out here in SPN tv viewer land)? I mean, to throw in another scream-into-the-void-worthy moment from canon, their take on who the president of the US is at any given moment in canon… (please nobody ask me to sort through that can of worms today, this one is enough thanks :P). But really? Yeah, I think it was mostly Meredith Glynn making these rather pointed fourth wall breaks, as well as Dean being a snarky little shit in-story, and not an expression intended to confirm his evening tv viewing plans for that specific night.
ETA: ALSO! Patience was already confirmed to be a senior in high school when 13.03 aired. She would not still be going back to high school if it were already August. She would’ve graduated and been leaving for college. Because we KNOW that 13.03 happened no later than May 23-24 or so.
#spn 13.08#spn timeline#spn 9.04#dean is our incredibly on point pop culture reference machine#charlie bradbury defense league#alice smash#i can't remember what my tag for shrike was oopsie#fourth wall what fourth wall#meredith glynn appreciation tag#calyssmarviss#spn 13.03
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I've been peeking in on twitter more often than usual over the last few days, partly because I spent the weekend working a con with Zerbe and didn't have time to spend scrolling tumblr, and partly in looking at the numerous Hot Bad Takes about Steve Yockey getting what appears to be a once in a lifetime sort of opportunity for a writer and leaving Supernatural before the series is finished, and partly because since the show is ending this year and there's so many campaigns to show our love to the cast and crew... but I haven't seen anyone start a campaign to show our love to the one group of people who've already been laboring away on s15 for more than a month already: THE BELOVED WRITERS WHO ARE CRAFTING OUR RUN TO THE FINISH LINE!
(presented with a focus on the writers who have a social media presence on twitter, who will actually see this...)
They've been hard at work since May preparing to bring us one final season of Team Free Will in their last stand against the Cosmic Drama that has been building up to this for the last 14 years. I'd really love to begin a concerted campaign to share our love for what they do, and not just in a generalized squee sort of way, but in the same way we offer thoughtful comments on fic. I feel bad because I spend all my time writing about the glory of the narrative structure of this show, the brilliance of Dabb's showrunning direction, the depth of Meredith Glynn's character study (especially of Dean, but honestly of all the characters, including Cas... remember 14.17? Cas has amply demonstrated just how much he understands the value of his human family, and is on the road to understanding what he might also mean to them).
The care with wich Bobo has crafted some of the most painful leaps in emotional growth for the characters (hello, 14.18... you can watch a a microcosm of Dean's entire emotional journey over the course of the show encapsulated in that single episode). Master of the Fanfiction Gap-- and in partnership with Meredith-- the providers of possibly the most efficient and broad emotional layering through glimpses of the past in the current narrative... I know I'm not explaining this well, but, I SEE WHAT THEY DID THERE, with everything from the mixtape-- and not even the shippy implications of it, but using that singular moment to show us the breadth and depth of all the characters' relationships by reminding us of all the things we never actually see on screen, yet which still happen in the characters' "real lives." And holy HECK 14.18 was a master class in that, with the layered flashbacks to explore each character’s relationship with Mary.
One of my most-referred back to episodes of s14 has been 14.08, Byzantium, which honestly the meta implications of the title alone spurred some of the most interesting discussions I've had on the cosmology of the show's universe, and laid some solid groundwork for what I presume will be the direction the show takes in s15. SOULS DETERMINE THEIR OWN FATE! Our choices DO matter! And we have Meredith Glynn to thank for that.
This is the sort of excellent writing that makes these characters so real to us, that keeps us invested in the characters and the show. They DO feel like real people, with full lives in three dimensions, and our televisions are the portal to their universe that we're only gifted a tiny portion of in 42 minute chunks. And yet... we do feel like we understand so much of their lives that we DON'T see on screen, precisely because of this incredibly layered and subtle character study.
Which brings me to the newest writer on staff, Jeremy Adams. He gave us the glory that is Scoobynatural, under some incredibly tight constraints (given the limitations of how they were allowed to present the Scoobyverse within the Supernatural universe's rules), and I'm incredibly excited to see his more standard take on Sam, Dean, and Cas in a full-on episode of Supernatural. And honestly, we need more along the lines of The Killer Stuffed Dinosaur In Love. I think, if anything, Jeremy has a solid hold on who these characters are-- both the surface layer and the far deeper emotional layers-- as well as a fresh take on the show’s inherent sense of humor.
(and I mean COME ON in Dabb era, the era of the author of 8.08, we know there’s an element of brilliant Cartoon Logic to the narrative)
And we can't forget Davy Perez, who effectively provided us a guidebook on How To Watch This Show: Meta Edition with 14.04 Mint Condition, and then used this guide to break us all completely with 14.11 Damaged Goods. But also setting up a mirror confrontation for how Mary parents her boys in how she deals with Dean here, which will become painfully, horrifically twisted around in how she presents the exact same choice to Jack in 14.17/14.18. I'm wibbling just thinking about it, and honestly that's what good writing DOES. It grabs you by the feelers and does not let go.
And ALL of this has happened under Dabb's orchestration. All these other writers are effectively telling us HIS story. I don't think they're all getting the credit they deserve. Yes, I write rhapsodic about their episodes on tumblr, but they never see it. I think, heading into this final season, we all owe these people the praise and thanks they deserve to hear, and not just the usual Twitter Terrible Hot Take machine they're typically exposed to.
To that end, I've done a bit of research and made a contact who has promised to hand deliver our gratitude directly to these writers who need to hear it most. The cast is steeped in our gratitude at every con, and there's been multiple campaigns in fandom to thank the tireless crew who works on set every day to bring this show to us. But as a writer, I understand how thankless their job can feel. And I have an idea of what would absolutely mean the most to them: Direct messages of "I see what you did there."
I got a message to that effect on my fic Cakepocalypse! a few weeks ago, and I'm gonna share it here (without attribution, since I haven't asked the commenter for permission to share it), but it is the PERFECT example of the sort of thing I want to give the SPN writers:
[transcript of the image: comment: Ok, I'm re-reading this and I'm amazed to see that there are more hints as to what's really going on much sooner than I realized! You must have worked really hard structuring all this! Wow, the mind boggles.
my response: HEEE! OMG THANK YOU THIS IS THE BEST. I, being a Nervous Author Type, was worried I would give it all away too soon, or that nobody would notice what I was doing and feel like the surprise comes out of nowhere, so this is literally the most satisfying possible comment you could've given and I appreciate you so much rn. Thank you :'D]
I can't even BEGIN to express how much this simple comment meant to me. I felt PERFECTLY SEEN. And I want to share that feeling with the writers who craft this show for us to enjoy, because all of them deserve to know that we care about the characters and their story and their eventual fate as much as they do.
So here's my proposal:
It doesn't have to be complex. You don't need to write them novels, but I think sharing the sort of specific love and appreciation for them that I've attempted to express above will go MILES toward energizing the writers as they move into the final season. Let's share with them how much this entire journey has meant to us. Let's let them know that WE SEE WHAT YOU'RE DOING THERE!
If you're comfortable going on twitter, by all means take your appreciation directly to the source. Here's a link to the thread I tweeted out to this effect for a reference if you'd like one:
https://twitter.com/MittensMorgul/status/1146137421345636352
(and because I think twitter cut my thread in half, here’s the rest: https://twitter.com/MittensMorgul/status/1146137437170626560)
If you're not on twitter (or are D: over sharing your love so openly for whatever reason), I will open my submissions here on tumblr. You can write a letter of appreciation which I will ensure (anonymously if you prefer) will reach the writers directly. I'll also be compiling a list of links to meta or other tumblr posts you feel the writers will appreciate reading, but I will only share them with explicit permission from the authors of said posts. So if you want to share your love that way, please submit links to the specific posts you'd like me to share with them and I’ll make sure they get them.
My tumblr experience has been a gleeful love letter to this show, but I know the writers aren't seeing any of it. If anyone deserves to feel our love (especially as writers ourselves-- meta, fic, etc.-- or even as appreciators of excellent writing), it's the people who have poured themselves into creating this show for us. Regardless of what we ship, or what our expectations might be going into s15, I think it's important for us to acknowledge them now, and let them know how important Supernatural has been to all of us.
#supernatural#spn s15#dabb vs cars#meredith glynn#this is a bobo berens appreciation blog#davy perez appreciation tag#jeremy adams
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