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skyeventide · 2 years

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if maedhros doesn't like using maitimo anymore, why is "maedhros" composed by maitimo + russandol smashed together, and specifically by maite, the part that means "shapely"? maite can also mean skilled. and can also mean, wait for it. "handy" or "having a hand". keeping it sounds precisely like his specific sense of humour. we don't know whether he liked maite also because it means shapely, which he might have wanted to keep in pure defiance — but the alternative meaning is something that might have amused him, too. that mix of spite and black humour. (it tangentially fits his alternative Old English name too: the original maidros/maidhros meant "pale glitter", and the old english name is doegred winsterhand, "daybreak left-handed". chris T also adds that doegred might be a reference to the hair colour, joining it with -ros/russandol).

#Maedhros #The Silmarillion

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nyenyerle · 8 days

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thought no. 1. about the Flight of the Noldoli from Valinor poem

flaming torches he held and whirled in his hands aloft,

-> unabashedly promethean. like it doesn’t get more promethean than this

-> i wouldn’t be surprised if the flames he held and whirled were also 1) his words 2) his noldor

-> upgraded holding and whirling the silmarils to holding and whirling straight up fire. light turns to flame this will surely end well

-> when listing the seven sons at the moment of the oath-taking, the poem records that compared to feanor’s flame, maidhros burnt yet more eager. this more likely refers to the aspect of fire that is destructive power rather than anything else; or perhaps, maybe, that during the rallying of the noldor, maedhros was such a charismatic leading presence (in contrast to feanor’s overpowering personality that was inspiring, but less suited to longterm politics?) that it merited mentioning. Either way, not soon after this scene (or arguably with the second kinslaying at the latest), “maidhros tall” eventually “takes the torch” from feanor, and his “wrath” burns longer and destroys more than feanor ever did (at least quantitatively)

#:[#i don’t think that line means that maedhros initially lost his mind even more than feanor #or that he was stronger or more charismatic or had stronger willpower #i think that rather than a character note it reminisces on how maedhros’ anger destroyed more than feanor’s

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acceptsonlynttnightwing · 1 year

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Just wanted to say, thank you for your detailed defense of Elwing and Eärendil in some posts I've seen recently.

I've been going nuts listening to people bash them without really considering and or understanding what was actually happening to them.

These Fëanorian apologists, in their quest to find the tiniest shred of redemption in the Kinslayers, needlessly villainize their victims Elwing and Eärendil for the innocent and somewhat naive decisions they made under immense pressure in the worst of circumstances.

It's a relief to know I'm not the only one out there who recognizes that!

No problem, happy to help :) I think I know what post you're talking about - unfortunately the OP blocked me when after I said Maglor didn't actually save the twins so I don't think you can see it anymore. I'm planning on writing a full length post reconciling the different Silmarilion version and their contexts.

It really annoys me when people go "Yeah, Maglor had no choice but to adopt Elros and Elrond or they'd have died" and often imply (especially in fics and snippets) that Elwing and Earendil were such terrible parents and while the third Kinslaying sucks, the twins were better off because of it.

Like, how do you so massively leave out the fact that there were survivors of Sirion who were able to informe Gil-Gilad and Cirdan of the twins being, and I quote, "taken captive" (how would they know if the twins had been left alone to be "rescued"?). And, you know, Balar was a few hours away + Ulmo guarded the waters, safeguarding them from the orcs. The twins would have been fine had they been left with their people and even the biggest Maglor/Maedhros fan cannot say they were better parental figures that Cirdan.

Also, Tolkien himself said the twins were "taken captive" and had no further interaction between them and Maglor - as you might imagine there would be Elrond really considered him his true father. On the other hand, Elrond was proudly half-elven, appears to mention his lineage with pride and named his sons with the family -El (or just straight up "Evenstar" lol).

The - sadly rather common, I've discovered - idea that the Maglor found the twins abandoned in a cave is completely false and the result of what I assume was some kind of Reddit Chinese whispers. Tolkien wrote once in a LETTER that Elrond and Elros were so named because they were carried off by the sons of Feanor and were found LEFT in a cave. He later changed the origin of their names (to honour Menelrond and Doriath instead). There is no version whatsoever (trust me, I just went through every version of Quenta Silmarilion in History of ME AGAIN) wherein MAGLOR found the twins in a cave, only one where he left them in one.

Could/Should Elwing have sent the twins away as soon as the Feanorians found out the jewel was in Sirion? Yes, definitely.

But was she an idiot for not doing so? Not really.

The only place of safety left was Balar (Doriath, Nargothrond, Gondolin and the Fallas were all gone), a small war camp of an island barely a few hours away. It wasn't a leap to assume she could sent the twins away quickly if that ever became a necessity.

Did Elwing have valid reasons for not assuming they would attack immediately? Also yes. Maidhros sent letters of friendship and attacked even before Earendil could return - basically in the midst of negotiations. And while some may say "The Feanorians attacked Doriath! It should have been obvious they'd attack Sirion", Sirion was the first time the Feanorians had killed Noldor. Unto that point, the kinslayings had been of Teleri and Sindar/Falathrim elves - it was a decent assumption that they wouldn't attack their own people, especially not the ones ruled by the grandson of Turgon (their previous High King).

I think the problem is that a lot of people read LOTR and then skim the Silmarilion (fair, some parts can be a LOT) and get a lot of their information from online sites, which while super fun and informative aren't always the most reliable. Especially with Tolkien's work, it's easy to mix up the different timelines and versions of events, especially when you want things to be a certain way.

And since the earlier drafts of the Silmarlion (from before Tolkien even wrote or conceptualised LotR) present a far more sympathetic Maidhros and Maglor, it's tempting for fans to bring those versions of their favourites into the final version. The problem is, things were so different and so many characters didn't exist in the original that TOLKIEN changed thing - for example, there's a quote from the old Quenta Silmarlion that says Elrond stayed with Maglor for a while - pretty strongly in favour of happy kidnap family, right? Well, that version of Elrond was also supposed to become the high king of the Noldor! He was also a single child since Elros didn't exist - neither did Gil-Galad, Galadriel, Celeborn, Thranduil and Celebrimbor (Cirdan went missing and was presumed dead after the Havens fell to Morgoth). Elrond and Maglor were basically the only elves of any note left in ME.

It's pretty inaccurate and kinda dishonest to mash that version into later, more fleshed out ones.

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Don't get me wrong, I like Maedhros and Maglor (mainly Maglor actually), but I also like Elwing and Earendil and Gil-Galad and Cirdan and I'd like if we could not shit on the later characters and their relationships.

I, personally, prefer to think of the twins and Maglor loving each other but having a very complicated relationship - one that acknowledges the messiness of the past and doesn't try handwaving it away. Especially because the twins weren't with them for long enough to really move past that past - ten/fifteen years max (and that's only if the Feanorians didn't fight in the war of wrath - again, unlikely, because they were part of the camp when the war ended - so it's probably closer to 6/7 years).

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ibrithir-was-here · 3 years

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So I had a super fun time brainstorming with @glassballdinosaurs earlier about what would happen after Maedhros and Mairon run off together in my Guinevere comic, and it ended up with them hiding out from the elven hosts and Morgoth somewhere on the farthest corner of Arda, up until Mae can’t hold off on the Oath anymore, and they sneak back just in time to bump into Beren and Luthien undertaking their own Silmaril quest.

A very tenuous alliance is made between the two couples, but they do actually manage to pull it off (Luthien and Mairons combined power is potent enough they actually manage to get two) —but Beren still loses his to Carcaroth. But Maedhros manages to help slay the rampaging wolf, sparing Beren his original first death, and in gratitude Luthien (very) strong arms Thingol into letting her give Maedhros and Mairon the other silmaril, thus losening the grip of the Oath on all the Feanorians for a good long while, and giving Maedhros a way to reconnect with Maglor without him trying to kill Mairon the instant he sees them.

With M&M now on good terms with Luthien’s family and in possession of two silmarils, the second and third kin slaying don’t happen, and instead Mae and Mags get the twins when Elwing disappears when the city is attacked by Morgoth’s forces trying to retake the Silmarils when Maedhros was visiting them. (She still jumps with a silmaril but now it’s to try and save it from being retaken )

Mairon endures being the grumpy step-dad as best he can, and ends up developing enough of a fondness that he doesn’t mind following Maedhros to Numenor to help Elros get things set up there. (He’s done enough basically good deeds —or at least refrained from doing bad ones, that Eonwe manages to get this swung as his “Community Service” or something. Also the still living Feanorians manage to get a pardon due to their Better then Canon behavior as well, and some of them sail back to Valinor with the other two silmarils.) Mairon actually ends up enjoying city planning immensely, though Maedhros does has to put up with ogling Numenoreans cuz they’re going to be captivated by Mairon in any universe.

They hang around looking after Elros’s dynasty, manage to keep Ar-Pharazon from making trouble in the future, and overall are really quite happy in the end :)

#they probably introduce Tyelpe to Herendil in this AU as well #Mairon might still have some managerial desires but now he gets to play with a whole new island starting from scratch #and since he’s not going to be starting any death cults in this it probably works out all right overall #my art #tolkien #lotr #silmarillion #sauron #Mairon #Maedhros #maidhros #maedhros x mairon #sauron x maedhros #Mae Squared #nelyafinwe #russandol #I just have to figure out what do with fingon in this :[#that’s like the last loose sad end

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warrioreowynofrohan · 2 years

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Fëanorian Counternarratives - Maedhros

For Maedhros, one of the more interesting lines in HoME is from HoME 3, The Lays of Beleriand:

Maidhros tall (the eldest, whose ardour yet more eager burnt than his father’s flame, than Fëanor’s wrath)

The standard, almost universal portrayal of Maedhros in fanfic is as responsible, pragmatic, thoughtful, stoic; the Team Dad of the Fëanorian brothers. But what if he wasn’t like that? What if we followed what this line says?

What if Maedhros and Fingon were close in Valinor not because of differences, but because of similarities? What if they were both passionate, impulsive, a little reckless? What if they were both genuinely, passionately on their fathers’ sides in the Unrest of the Noldor and it caused genuine anger and division between them?

What if they both saw passion and impulsiveness and recklessness result in devastating consequences - the Kinslaying, the Doom, the burning of the ships, Fëanor’s death, Maedhros’ capture, the crossing of the Helcaraxë - and became more thoughtful and responsible as a consequence of this?

We know that Fingon follows that trajectory, to a degree. His desire, during the Return of the Noldor, is (similar to Galadriel) to “to see the wide unguarded lands and there to rule a realm at [his] own will.” He jumps impulsively into the Kinslaying based on false assumptions.

But in Middle-earth, he appears to have less independence of action than any of the other Noldorin princes; his role in Hithlum is largely as a support to his father. Initially he does have the rule of Dor-lómin, but that later passes to the House of Hador when they settle there, leaving him with no territory that’s specifically and exclusively his. Rather than having more space and scope to rule independently, he becomes a steady, reliable understudy - and frontline general, going by his substantial combat achievements - to his father. (While meanwhile his brother, Turgon, who would previously have been considered ‘the stable, responsible one’ of the family, completely disappears.)

So why can’t Maedhros have a similar trajectory, starting out somewhat passionate and reckless and prone to jumping into things, and concluding over the course of several years chained to Thangorodrim (plus Losgar and has father’s death serving as previous moments indicating that this glorious campaign against Morgoth for the purposes of avenging grandpa isn’t going quite as planned) that maybe he needs to put a little more thought and consideration into his decisions?

I don’t have any objection to to the more typical Maedhros portrayals; I just think that it could be interesting to have some material that departs from the default assumptions and gives us a very different personality for Maedhros in his youth, and a very different tenor to his interactions with Fingon. The canon that we have leaves scope for it.

#tolkien #the silmarillion #maedhros #fingon

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aragornsrockcollection · 2 years

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Continuing my over-analysis of names Tolkien characters choose for themselves…

… wiki just told me that Maidhros is Noldorin Quenya for “pale-glitter” !?!

So the eldest son of Feanor, when he chooses a Sindarin epesse like a good little diplomat following Thingol’s ban on Quenya, chooses the name Maedhros which is, “oh just a mash up of my mother name and my childhood nickname, it means shapely redhead”.

But is actually virtually indistinguishable from a name in Quenya!!?! Idk feels like a very subtle diplomatic middle finger, cause his name is BASICALLY STILL IN QUENYA. (I know he chose his Sindarin name before the ban, but still,

And that name is translated as “pale-glitter” but according to Parf Edhellen,

it is the glitter of polished metal. A gleam you might say. Or a glint.

So this could refer to the fire that is described in his eyes after Angband, which is a reflection of the intensity with which his soul burns, meaning he’s directly referencing his father’s name, soul of fire.

But what I immediately thought of was the gleaming edge of a sword. Maidh’s meaning of “pale” seems to refer to specifically a pale skin color (he’s a ginger… ginger skin colored), as opposed to a pale moon, or pale as in thin or faint. As if it were a reference to what he is about to turn himself into after Angband- his body nothing but a glittering sword to weild against the enemy.

Disclaimer: This would be a hard stretch to be considered as something Tolkien intended. What actually seems to have happened is he liked the sound of “Maedhros” and went through many drafts of how that would be spelled, and what it would mean, and where he would get it. This means at one point it was the name he was given as a child, and thus in Quenya. Christopher Tolkien apparently had to pick what they were going with for the publish Silmarillion, because there were like 5 versions.

But I love the idea of Quenya Maidhros and Sindarin Maedhros existing together, and Maedhros re-arranging the components of his name so that it became a pun on his new purpose.

#the silmarillion #tolkien #lotr #jirt #silmarillion #silm #feanor #maedhros #maitimo #quenya #russandol #puns #post-angband

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nelyafinwe · 4 years

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listen bitches i know maedhros is pronounced like maidhros but yall cant stop me from bass boosting his e because i'm latin american and i don't know anything else

#it's maédros #fight me gringos #lifelog.txt

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ibrithir-was-here · 3 years

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There, did some fluffy stuff to make up for the angsty stuff yesterday (well, Sauron xMaedhros is still kinda angsty just from context). But here’s Celebrimbor x Herendil/ Sauron x Maedhros/ and happy Silvergifting

#my art #silmarillion #Silvergifting #mairon #Sauron #annatar #tyelpe #Celebrimbor #Maedhros #maitimo #russandol #herendil #Tolkien OCs #my OCs #Tolkien #lotr #Sauron x Maedhros #maidhros #mai squared

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ibrithir-was-here · 3 years

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ibrithir-was-here · 3 years

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Wanted to post some stuff for the sake of posting 😅 so have some semi-saucy Mai Squared I had saved up (absolutely inspired by the fantastic scene from The Man from U.N.C.L.E. )

#my art #silmarillion #lotr #tolkien #sauron #mairon #mai squared #maidhros #Maedhros #mairon x maedhros #maedhros/sauron #sauron x maedhros

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ibrithir-was-here · 3 years

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Tada! Have a little flirty Maidhros animation!

#my art #my animation #maidhros #Mai Squared #Sauron x Maedhros #Sauron #mairon #Maedhros #tolkien #lotr #silmarillion #the silmarillion #maitimo #nelyafinwe #russandol

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ibrithir-was-here · 3 years

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Aaand some angst this time :/ but at least Maedhros isn’t being tortured so, it’s slightly better angst then he usually goes thru when he’s in Angband, right?

#there’s no way if he does catch feelings that he doesn’t feel like a traitor #even if he still despises Morgoth and would never join him #but all everyone else is likely going to see is that he’s smooching the dark lieutenant #and that looks pretty darn traitorous #and they both know it #my art #tolkien #lotr #silmarillion #the silmarillion #sauron #mairon #maedhros #maitimo #Sauron x Maedhros #maidhros #can can that be the ship name? x)

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ibrithir-was-here · 3 years

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Please enjoy this dumb little late night comic

#my art #tolkien #lotr #silmarillion #Sauron #maedhros #Sauron x Maedhros #Maidhros #mairon #Morgoth #melkor #maitimo #russandol #nelyafinwe #boy has too many names :p #I still have no idea how this ship could possibly work in any soft way #but it’s fun #mai squared

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ibrithir-was-here · 3 years

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I don’t really ship Maedhros x Sauron, since the whole situation that puts them together is just aaaalll kinds of bad times :/ But some how it got into my head (maybe it’s just two red headed guys together idk) but anyway in an attempt to put the idea to rest have some doodles

If I were to imagine anything at all for them I think it would be some sort of weird semi-truce of “we can have a polite enough conversation when we’re not actively being foes at the moment” based on some sort of Stockholm/Lima syndrome grudging respect, mixed with a sort of FWB that wouldn’t really go beyond kisses/cuddling so that they can both have something soft once in a while in what is literally the worst place on earth. This would only be in a world where Sauron isn’t the one actually overseeing his torture, that’s some other dept while he manages the army/resources and what not.