Can I just ask because every now and then I see these ‘eww incest’ posts on the tag. If fictional incest is so taboo and wrong, if it’s a line that cannot be crossed, then how can one be okay with a story set in a world where the author has described Alysanne and Jaehaerys as a ‘great Targaryen love story’? Shouldn’t he be describing that as one of the most disgusting Targaryen love stories given their platonic love for each other as children and siblings clearly turned into romantic and sexual love at some point?
Clearly biology and science and sexual attraction works differently in GRRM’s magical fantasy world.
Why are there love songs being written about Aemon the Dragonknight and Queen Naerys in Westeros? These two are also siblings. Here is Sansa talking about her great love for Joffrey and comparing it to the love between siblings Naerys and Aemon:
I love him, Father, I truly truly do, I love him as much as Queen Naerys loved Prince Aemon the Dragonknight, as much as Jonquil loved Ser Florian. I want to be his queen and have his babies.” - Sansa, AGoT
This is Naerys and Aemon
Naerys loved Prince Aemon the most out of her two brothers, as he knew how to make her laugh. Aemon was also more like Naerys in character, while Prince Aegon was not.
By the way, I made a post the other day about how Jon/Arya is a foil to Joffrey/Sansa and left this one out. Here is another example of foreshadowing, where Sansa proclaims that her love for Joffrey is the same as that of Naerys for Aemon when in reality Joffrey is an abusive sadist. Meanwhile Aemon and Naerys’ love for each other as children mirror that of Jon and Arya’s and Jon even cosplays as Aemon the dragonknight as a child.
And Arya…he missed her even more than Robb, skinny little thing that she was, all scraped knees and tangled hair and torn clothes, so fierce and willful. Arya never seemed to fit, no more than he had…yet she could always make Jon smile. He would give anything to be with her now, to muss up her hair once more and watch her make a face, to hear her finish a sentence with him. - Jon, AGoT
Now, I can understand if one is against fictional incest and do not want to engage in it. That’s totally fine. However, why criticize other readers for engaging with fictional romantic incestual ships that are prevalent in this fictional world? When the author is leading us somewhere and we as readers are only following where the author is taking us, why use real world taboos to call out readers because incest is wrong.
And by the way Arya is a skinny little 9/10 years old in ACoK/ASoS and Gendry is likely 14/15 when he meets her in ACoK. Jon Snow keeps referring to her as small and skinny, a child he cannot imagine in Ramsay’s bed. And yet we talk about the romantic nature of Arya and Gendry’s interactions because the author has indeed written in the romantic chemistry there between a 9/10 year old and a 14/15 year old. Why is that okay but incest is the line that should not be crossed?
I repeat, pretty much every major ship in this series is problematic by real world standards. Sansa/Sandor shippers (Sansa is 11 when 27 year old Sandor falls for her) calling Rhaegar/Lyanna creepy and Rhaegar a paedophile must be the funniest thing yet in this fandom. How self-unaware does one have to be to not recognize the double standards there?
Also, note to Jonsa shippers. If your reason for taking all the book material and foreshadowing from Jon and Arya’s canonical relationship and handing it over to Sansa is because ‘Jon and Sansa are not close’ then stop using Aemon/Naerys, Alysanne/Jaehaerys etc to justify your crackship. These characters were siblings who grew up loving each other.
And besides, if one has to go for an incestual relationship where both characters are not close, there is always the superior Jon and Daenerys. Jon and Dany, who have actual canonical, textual foreshadowing for meeting and falling in love, actual parallels as leaders, are close in age and maturity, have had sexual partners, who have loved and lost, who look beyond class and gender, have the same interest to help people, are each other’s type etc.
A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness…
Jon and Sansa, despite growing up together, are indifferent to each other for a reason. They are polar opposites. Jon can’t spare a single thought of concern for Sansa’s status and whereabouts, Sansa admits to forgetting that Jon exists. Jon disdains girly girls like Sansa and Sansa holds bastards as being less than high born nobles. Jon didn’t give a damn about Sansa over 5 books and vice versa and that’s not going to suddenly change in the last book because Sansa’s beauty is so overpowering or whatever. He is not there to give Sansa her Disney princess endgame and that’s not the story GRRM is writing.
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one egregious thing the game of thrones show misses out on is that the stark kids are CONSTANTLY thinking abt each other!! there isn’t like a single POV chapter from any of them where they don’t long for their siblings!! Jon wants to have a son and name him Robb!! Bran wants to be a bird so him and his siblings can live in a nest together!! Sansa prays for her siblings every night and makes the Winterfell castle and then gets upset bc there’s no one to throw snow at!! Needle IS Jon!! Arya’s list is her own prayer for her siblings, she doesn’t care that Joffrey is dead bc Robb is too!! Every single one of them believes that their big brother will come to save them!! there’s sm love and tenderness there and GOT missed out on lots of it bc it tries too hard for the grimdark angle without realising that the center of the stark’s story is their love for each other. anyways.
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"he was never unfaithful to robert, was he?" - jaime, acok
ha. ha ha ha. the irony of this line is incredible. what's so striking to me is how one dimensional the realm's understanding of eddard stark as an honourable man is - honour itself is an incredibly complicated and unattainable ideal in asoiaf and i think ned as the stereotypical emblem of it encompasses many of the reasons why. because whilst he absolutely does consider acting in a conventionally honourable way important, he always prioritises those he loves. he defended cat's actions as his own without a second thought when she arrested tyrion. his main priority in king's landing is to see his daughters safe, not to secure the succession. lyanna is the prime example: jon's existence is not the result of the lapse of honourable ned stark, it was honourable ned stark choosing his love for his sister over his duty to his king. that and his personal ethical belief that the political murder of a child is never morally acceptable.
no one in the realm has the insight into his personality we get in the first book. none of his children, vitally, understand that he would always prioritise their safety over any honourable scruples. all of the starklings question what their honourable father would think of their actions - killing in self-defence, marrying jeyne westerling, sleeping with ygritte to name a few examples - without recognising that ned's true first priority was always his family's safety.
in fact, he betrayed robert far more than he ever betrayed cat and he would have betrayed honour for his family's safety every time.
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