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fauzhee10069 · 1 year

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Stone Ocean: the two versions of universe reset & jolysui/irekiss

Just this month, Stone Ocean anime has ended. Suddenly I want to discuss how universe reset actually works and a little bit about jolysui & irekiss.

First, about Pucci’s version of universe reset. The first time Emporio woke up in GDst prison, he saw a new version of Jotaro and Jolyne.

SO chapter 156: Made In Heaven – part 8

This version of ‘Jotaro’ and ‘Jolyne’ have similar fashion style, with minor alteration. But it could be seen that their face (and possibly their voice too) was different. So, Emporio saw them as different people, but let's say that they were roughly like people cosplaying as Jotaro and Jolyne.

Not only about the costumes, but also their role. Let's refer to them as Kunō Nōtaro and Jocelyn (for fun LOL), and that this Jocelyn also being incarcerated and has daddy issue like Jolyne.

So we are like back to the beginning of Stone Ocean (chapter 11 onwards), but since Jotaro, Jolyne and the likes did not survive the acceleration, they were gone and got replaced with Notaro and Jocelyn. It is also said that their soul and personality have been erased, in this case we don’t really see the personality of Notaro and Jocelyn, so this explanation is a bit ambiguous. However, Notaro and Jocelyn are clearly different people from Jotaro and Jolyne (based on appearance alone), but living their life.

Also, why we went back to chapter 11 and not chapter 1 in first reset? Because Jolyne’s first enemy under Pucci was Johngalli A., and the arc started on chapter 11. Gwess is the only enemy in Stone Ocean who had nothing to do with Pucci.

SO chapter 158: What A Wonderful World

Next, in second version of universe reset when Pucci got erased instead, Emporio met the new version of Jolyne’s gang. Based on face alone, they are all the same persons. But here they live a different life than in previous world (a world where they have bizarre adventured with Emporio). In this case, we can see that they were all never incarcerated in GDst.

And besides that they also have different identities, like Anakiss instead of Anasui and Irene instead of Jolyne. Is it possible that the actual names of Notaro and Jocelyn were previously Jotaro and Jolyne? Idk. But through the name change of Anasui and Jolyne, it shows that they have a completely different life than before.

Another interesting thing is their different style of dress. Particularly between Anasui and Anakiss, while the former dressed like a stripper, the latter is being modest. Wiki page said that the dead is still being replaced, but replacement in this second reset is clearly different from the first.

And in one of my old posts (!part 8 spoilers), I have mentioned how Irene’s personality feels different from Jolyne, as Jolyne is more tomboyish like her father whereas Irene is more gentle and affectionate like her grandma. -> skip to “Regarding Jolyne and Irene” and stop at “they might show them differently”.

So the breakdown is roughly like this:

Now, I’d like to talk about jolysui and irekiss.

In original universe, mostly it was treated like a gag and one-sided. But surprisingly, in second reset, they are dating and about to get married as irekiss.

However, near the end of Stone Ocean, during the climactic battle against 「Made in Heaven」, some time after Anasui proposed to Jolyne through her father Jotaro, Jolyne accepted it (much to her father’s shock lol).

You can watch the scene here (skip at minute 7:55):

youtube

Because just after Anasui said 「徐倫に結婚でも申し込むとするかな！」” Jōrin ni kekkon demo moushikomu to suru kana!” which roughly means “then maybe I’ll ask Jolyne to marry me”...

Jolyne said “yes” and indeed what she meant was about 「申し込む」”moushikomu” and it means:

To be honest, initially I did not believe this scene, because I did not recall having this in the manga. I thought this was an extra/improvisation scene in the anime. But after I checked again, it was the English translation of the manga version that made it sound more ambiguous.

SO chapter 153: Made In Heaven – part 5

Sometimes, there are few translation errors in English version, however I don’t think this one is the case.

Just “ask me” is not wrong, it directly translated to the “moushikomu” one, as marriage in Japanese is “kekkon”. However, it is Jolyne's dialogue afterwards that makes the nuances in this scene difficult to comprehend.

Even though she accepted Anasui's proposal, Jolyne hardly looked like someone being in love with Anasui.

“I’m not saying this because I’m not despairing over this situation” later she was talking about “hope” and “path”, that’s how I misinterpreted it that she was talking about Anasui's plan in defeating Pucci and their probability to win, akin to another gag that she was being oblivious with his courting. Especially prior to that, something like this happened:

SO chapter 151: Made In Heaven – part 3

Just after Anasui's asking about marriage to Jotaro, Jolyne kind of reacted to it, only for her to talk about how to fight Pucci, made me as a reader thought: “OMG, she assured him that she is into it!” -> “oh, it is about the fight”.

And back on how I think that she did not look like someone being in love, I expected that she said something like “because whenever I'm with you, I feel comfort in my heart”, it’s cheesy yeah… but it will spare me from misunderstanding (lmao).

At least, if I was more attentive, Jotaro's reacting to her words is totally made sense now (lol).Tbh, seeing his reaction, I'm not sure he would approve it. After all, Anasui is still a criminal & murderer. However, things can be different with Anakiss, because like I said before, he got different life.

So now I can understand why irekiss happened, because jolysui was about to happen if only they survived. But personally, I’m still not a fan of jolysui, they really lack chemistry (in contrast to josuyasu/yasugap, my OTP). Jolysui has been treated as a gag until suddenly it became possible. It’s like a reversal role in old Shōnen trope when the girl constantly being in love with MC but MC being oblivious, yet the ending have them tied the knot (famous example is Goku-Chichi in Dragon Ball). But yeah, irekiss is canon and I simply accept it.

Then what do you think about jolysui and irekiss? Do you have OTP in JoJo?

#stone ocean #jojo meta #jjba part 6 #universe reset #made in heaven #jolysui #jolyne cujoh #narciso anasui #jotaro kujo #irekiss #enrico pucci #emporio alnino #anakiss #irene #jojo's bizarre adventure #jjba meta #i do think that jolysui will end up in divorce just like jotaro (lol)#irekiss may have happier life

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ilovejojo · 1 year

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how chilling rohan's fate is and how he deals with this, being DESTINED TO ESCAPE DEATH, every single time since he was a child. his manga being horror. and heaven's door looking like his created protagonist.. he is so actively involved with his sorroundings. his *INDIRECT* connection to other humans through the middle man of manga.. "rohan has never felt lonely by the fact that he's alone" .. ahhh! AHHHHHHHHHH.!!!!!!!! Its almost an excuse, isn't it. this way of human connection and the outward attitude of him. And he can just. WRITE ON PEOPLE. Read them as books. Like studying. Objects of STUDY. This creates a detachment.. "i make manga because i want to be read" (<- AND HE CANNOT READ HIS OWN MEMORIES OF REIMI'S MURDER.. )

#rohan kishibe #jjba #jojo's bizarre adventure #diamond is unbreakable #analysis #meta #jjba meta #i woild love to make a better; more studied and polished post about this but i need to share anyways..#reimi sugimoto #jjba part 4 #jojo part 4

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arliaeien · 2 years

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Make him smile

It’s commonly accepted that Gyro’s humor is… special. Or at least, basic (from a Japanese point of view) or unclear (from an occidental point of view).

But, have you ever consider what’s Johnny’s reaction to Gyro’s first banter is?

Yeah, it’s a pretty big get. Especially when you remember Johnny’s rather in low spirits before meeting Gyro…

And at the same time, mocking people… (it’s comparable to fatphobia)

Not the best way to make a joke, right?

Here come Diego Brando, the one introducing Gyro to puns in English…

Diego's sense of humor is terrible.

And he didn’t make Johnny laugh or smile. …at all!

But maybe because it *is* Diego? However Gyro might see potential.

So here come Shitsurei pun (4-2-0 / “Let me pass” / “Excuse me”).

(Well, I recall Araki said in an interview Gyro told that to test Johnny’s reaction from a medical point of view, as he was shot in the head.)

And more and more both pathetic and absurd humor.

No, I won’t try to stand up for the “7 days in a week” joke. Yet, remember that Johnny takes notes. No proof he transcribes it.

…Maybe he just writes, “I love this guy.” Or something?

This just to say, eventually next time you see Gyro trying some humor, consider despite sounding lame and making a fool of himself, perhaps Gyro does that just to try to make Johnny smile.

#jjba #jjba part 7 #sbr #sbr spoilers #steel ball run #gyro zeppeli #johnny joestar #gyjo #meta #jjba meta #this is about Gyro's humor #I love their interaction so much #a lot of things are open to interpretation #reactions and comments welcome

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megashadowdragon · 3 months

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#jjba diavolo #diavolo jojo #diavolo #jjba #jjba meta

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terunosukenyamoto · 11 months

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This is going to be fairly long, and also much more serious than my usual jjba meta. apologies in advance if i seem stilted: i have some issues with verbalizing things in a formal matter

Terunosuke Miyamoto's fate and portrayal are another egregious example of the subconscious bias present in Araki's work.

When I mention how Terunosuke was one of two characters to be given a fate worse than death in part 4, that he was the only p4 character to be nameless until years after the manga was completed, or that his fate was arguably undeserved, i am not saying anything new.

But I feel like not many people consider or realize that Terunosuke is canonically the only dark-skinned character in all of diamond is unbreakable.

Not only that, he is somewhat implied to be a foreigner in the manga (i cannot find a scan with a translation, but the canned drink he destroys is notably labeled as fruit lassi and it has a small drawing of an indian elephant on it).

In a part set in Japan, the only dark-skinned character, a character who is also implied to not be Japanese:

-is one of the few villains deemed irredeemable.

-is portrayed as uniquely sadistic, manipulative, and predatory, even when his actions are less or equally malicious than the actions of other characters. He kidnapped people and took hostages, but so did rohan. He threatened Josuke's family, but so did akira, and josuke was perfectly content with letting akira go to jail regularly.

-in fact, his crimes, crimes which are not unique among the cast of DIU, are deemed by Josuke to be as horrific as angelo's crimes, which were in fact uniquely horrible among the cast of diu.

-is given no characterization or motivation outside of sadism, to the point where he had no name for a good couple of years.

-is never mentioned or shown in canon again, which happens to few other DIU characters. Not even in the added davidpro epilogue scenes, which show other characters that were previously MIA after their respective arcs (such as toyohiro).

In fact, Davidpro actually makes his portrayal WORSE, all because of one small detail.

When his cover is shown onscreen, there's a small sticker on it that says, verbatim, "Morioh Public Library." Josuke hasn’t been to the library at that point. I may be reading in too deep, but the implication is that this sticker is part of his “body” and can’t be removed.

Terunosuke is the only dark skinned character in diamond is unbreakable, and the last proper shot of him is an image of him being..basically branded. It’s hard for this to not leave a bad taste in one’s mouth.

I do not think araki or davidpro were being intentionally malicious or bigoted in their handling of Terunosuke. The meaning of subconscious bias is that it is subconscious, so i do not think the enigma boy arc or terunosuke in general were written in bad faith .

However, the racism, colorism, and xenophobia that saturate his role in the story (to be a disposable and irredeemable villain who is only meant to be another obstacle in the face of our golden-hearted hero ) and his fate (to be literally dehumanized and locked away, never to be seen again, presumably for the "safety and greater good of morioh") are very clear.

Anti-discourse disclaimer fine text:

i am not trying to cancel jjba, diu, araki, davidpro, or any related concepts and parties, and i am not trying to make claims about the personal beliefs or agendas of hirohiko araki or members of david productions in any way, shape, or form. i am just writing about subconscious bias and how it possibly shaped a story arc in diu. i am not trying to give moral judgement to araki, davidpro, or any fans of jjba in this post. i am not trying to stop the collective you from enjoying things, just trying to inform. also, racism, xenophobia and colorism are bad. I edited this post due to quoting something based on an unofficial and incorrect translation and making a hypocritical point in the concluding paragraph.

#terunosuke miyamoto #jjba meta #jjba #jojos bizarre adventure diamond is unbreakable #jojos bizarre adventure #jjba diu #diu #diamond is unbreakable #racism ment #ask to tag #meta #fandom meta

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fellow-traveller · 1 year

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Alright. Finally have the time and peace of mind to talk about

CDDH Chapter 15

I drafted a write-up on it and it ended up being 5 pages long.

Strap in, boys and gals!

(under the cut, mainly because I’m gonna debunk something the fans had started to believe in and I’m positive it’s not gonna make them happy)

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Okay, before I start...this review won’t be in chronological order. I tried, but failed. I’m sorry.

So it’s going to be a little convoluted, but I hope I managed to get the ideas and other things I had in mind about this chapter across. I’ll start with the heavy thoughts, then simply talk about the scenes, and finally I’ll jump to the debunking.

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This second last chapter is more Hol Horse-centric, which is, I believe, the actual climax of the story. I know a lot of fans saw CDDH as a spin-off for Part 4 Josuke (and even Kakyoin), but from the very beginning, it’s actually Hol Horse’s. Josuke is really just a secondary protagonist. So it’s fitting to end the series with a conclusion to part of Hol Horse’s story.

I believe the scene with Ryoko threatening Hol Horse with a gun is the peak of their own development in this story. Ryoko having to prove to herself that she was no longer the one to blame for her cousin’s death, and Hol having to prove to himself that he was no longer the one that blames everyone else for every single mishap happening.

And I have a feeling Hol knew she was struggling with that; most likely from how shaky her hands were when she held the gun (obviously, surely, Hol would know how one would handle guns, right?). She was, in a way, doing what he had done so many times before – blaming someone else for something he didn’t do to make himself feel better. And when he couldn’t find anything to blame on, he’d run away.

Which is interesting if we tie this to his “Mr No.2” principle. Hol’s reason to be second most likely and partially stemmed by his tendency to blame others. When things did not go his way, he could at least blame his partner for it. When J. Geil was killed by Kakyoin and Polnareff, Hol basically had no one to blame for the loss, so he ran away. When he teamed up with Boingo, he blamed the kid when Thoth’s prediction wasn’t going as planned, even if the mistake was pretty much coincidental and was a product of misinterpretation.

(it also kinda ties with the Emperor tarot card, and I’ll try to explain it below)

In CDDH, Hol did want to blame Dio for everyone’s death. Kakyoin’s death more so, even if it really wasn’t his fault. But Hol was Dio’s agent, making Dio indirectly his partner. And now that Dio was dead, naturally Hol should run away.

But because CDDH is literally Hol Horse’s redemption story, this negative part of his personality has to be eradicated.

And so we were blessed with this puppy eyes look that Hol Horse gave Ryoko after he realise running away was no longer an option he should have and the only right, good and correct way to everything was being truthful to himself and others. The look that Ryoko instantly equated to Kakyoin’s during her encounter with his soul, because like Hol, Kakyoin too was blaming others for the misfortunes he experienced throughout his life, and ran away from the life he knew in Japan for the adventure to Egypt to make himself feel better.

It works, eventually. I mean...no one should say ever say no to that calm and accepting cowboy face.

---

I also find it kinda interesting that, all the talk of Hol Horse “respecting women” is basically just him being a good person. A genuinely good person, who doesn’t want any rewards of any kind whatsoever for saving someone’s life. I’m just guessing his tendency to save women more mainly lies in his Emperor trait, but there could be a possible backstory to it. I may be reading too much in it (plus, I forgot what the Japanese text were for this excerpt to properly look into it) but I have a feeling the “healing after being hurt” wasn’t in a physical context for Hol.

It could be his broken pride, his low self-esteem and cowardice, the breaking of the set of rules he had given himself...but there’s also the possibility that it traced back to a past that was yet to be fully elaborated. Perhaps we’ll see it in the novel? Who knows.

(it’s a nice quote, btw)

Anyway, I digressed.

Hol being a good person goes back to the interpretation of the Emperor card that is already “fated” to be how he was, is and will be as a person.

(again, disclaimer: I am not an expert in the Major Arcana. I just happen to read a lot on it. But if I am wrong in any way, feel free to correct me)

So, Emperor, first and foremost is a symbol of structure, rules, systems, knowledge and paternal figure. The absolute male ego, the ruler of the world (which is interesting, because Hol was about to rule over Dio, who held The World), the ultimate power and authority. This is on top of the traits Hol mentioned in this page, which signifies control.

All in all, good traits to have for a good cowboy.

In a person, Emperor represents a strategic thinker that often makes sure the plans they planned worked. Which brings me back to the part about Hol blaming others and running away, when his plans to kill the Crusaders AND Dio did not work. Emperor desire to create happiness and peace, foster honour and discipline, not only for himself but for everyone around him.

Including the women who were still alive among the dead ones used as Dio’s food, whom Hol had nothing to do with their life choices that had them ended up in a vampire’s mansion. True, Hol could have just leave them there. It wasn’t his business.

But he made it his business. Why? Because he’s the Emperor. He has to bring forth happiness to the people around him, he has to honour them and keep their honour, and he most certainly has to live up to his own set of rules – “to be the nicest guy in the world when it comes to the ladies”.

After all, an emperor’s job is to rule, as much as he is to serve his subjects. He follows the calling of the crown he wears above all else.

Emperor being about control is also considered the ultimate improvement that Hol needed. Out of the many Emperor traits, control is something Hol still wavered in, most notably the control on the direction of his life. But in this chapter, Hol choosing to not blame himself let alone anyone else for what happened to Kakyoin, and not running away from the question either, was literally him taking control of the direction of his life. Just like how he takes control of the trajectory of his bullets.

And with control will come more positive traits for Hol, including acting rationally for the greater good, having strong determination to reach a goal, and being a strong leader.

These are all upright significance of the Emperor card. Hol Horse used to be the reversed – inability to handle difficult situations, the rules he created and the plans he planned no longer worked, and ultimately forgetting his call to be the good person he was supposed to be out of fear of losing – before he took the stand to betray Dio. I guess it’s correct to say that the reversed traits that Hol used to have became fully upright then, and it’s proven with the flashback in this chapter.

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So, Hol admitted that he was Dio’s servant who was sent to kill the Crusaders including Ryoko’s cousin (and also admitting that he was no match against them – something he had been very truthful about since his first fight), and I believe it is really the correct thing to do on Hol’s part.

I do feel the turning point of Ryoko dropping the gun and helping Hol up proved the idea that...it’s okay to be a coward, for whatever reason one can think of. I feel like that’s part of Hol’s character as well. Too many times I’ve seen fans making fun of Hol for being a coward (mostly light-hearted, of course), but comedy aside, I do think it’s a good trait to have in difficult situations. It makes you survive longer, and be more understanding towards the people around you. It sums up Hol a lot, and it’s also a good development trait for both Kakyoins.

I particularly liked that Hol kept it simple and told her that the Crusaders saved the world. For someone who wasn’t there and not understanding how tremendous the task to defeat Dio was, simply saying the Crusaders – or Noriaki Kakyoin, for her sake – had saved everyone on Earth, is more than enough.

And Thoth did that kind of prediction again. So the “shooting Hol in the head” was just the old bullet wound from the last time he had his face shot at in SDC opening up. I’m just guessing that the stress of hanging by the ledge on one hand and having a gun he cannot control being shoved to his face had caused that.

But after 10 years? I don’t think Hol led a stress-free life after the events in SDC. Continuous stress can make a wound not heal properly after all. But damn, 10 YEARS...

;-; if only I can hug Hol tightly, I would. Cowboy deserves all the hugs in the world.

(will Josuke help heal this old wound for good? I hope so!♥)

Also, I love this panel. Hol acting like a father, in addition to the usual Hol respecting women trope. After getting himself near to the brink of death, the way he just casually and nonchalantly took off his long jacket to give to a half-naked young woman in front of him...it seemed so natural. I truly believe Hol would protect women any chance he gets.

We will always love Hol Horse for this. Yes, we do.

Also, the whole CDDH gang ♥ Truly a great way to end the chapter. And this particular panel sure looked like a groundwork to more adventures for them (minus Josuke, maybe, he has Part 4 to be in). But even if there would be no more stories for the gang, it’s still good way to finalise the story.

Overall, strongest chapter in my opinion.

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Talking about more adventures, apparently after the CDDH manga ends, the novel version of CDDH will be out; similar to Purple Haze Feedback and Over Heaven. I believe it’s the same story as CDDH manga, but with more details? I hope they explain a lot more on certain unexplained events (Karaiya’s grandfather, Boingo’s own demons to conquer, to name a few...) and maybe expand more on SDC from the villains’ POV, since Hol Horse’s past as Dio’s agent was heavily referenced in CDDH.

Whatever it is, I hope it gives a good read. I’m certainly buying the novel. It’s not always you get to see a minor antagonist in canon be the main protagonist in a spin-off after all...

I’m also just...liking the fact that Hol Horse no longer worked as mercenary-cum-assassin, but a private eye in CDDH.

Private Eyes by Hall and Oates...I see what you did there...♥

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Now...on the debunking part.

I don’t know who first made the assumption on this, but whoever you are, no hate. If anyone wants to firmly stand by that theory, go ahead. You’re free to do so; that’s the beauty of fiction.

But because I try my best to tie CDDH to the canon JoJo timeline, I just have to. I’m sorry.

So, the assumption was that the ladies that Hol Horse saved from Dio’s mansion were the mothers of Giorno, Rikiel, Donatello Versus and/or Ungalo. The idea is intriguing, I know, but...

Giorno was 3-4 years old when SDC happened. Versus was 1-2. The most I can take are Rikiel and Ungalo since they were born in 1988 (SDC’s timeline is 1988-89), but that’s quite a stretch.

We know Hol Horse was an outsourced mercenary hired by Dio to be an agent, and was not recruited into his cult-like group via his charisma (like Enyaba, Enrico Pucci, Mariah and Terence D’Arby were, to name a few). I’m not sure if I can provide much evidence on this, other than the fact that out of all Agents of Dio, he was one of those who were not given a fleshbud (it’s common ground that Dio gave this to his followers if they had a strong sense of nobility and he felt like they will cross him one day) and the only one willingly betray Dio. Plus, there’s a microscopic scene in the anime where Hol Horse was showcasing his Stand’s ability to Dio and Enyaba, which, in my opinion, he didn’t have to if he was already in the cult of Dio.

Which brings us back to the timeline. The only time and space where Hol Horse would be in Egypt, in Dio’s mansion, would be the time he was hired between 1987 and 1989 (1987 was presumably the year Dio started recruiting allies after receiving a Stand). So if the women were to be the ladies who conceived Dio’s children, they had to at least be saved in 1984 or 1986. Hol Horse wasn’t even there in the picture then.

Another reason I don’t really see the ladies conceiving Dio’s children – at least not the ones we already know – is the fact that Dio lets Giorno’s mother live back in 1984, a year after Dio reawakened. There is a possibility that she started off as Dio’s food, but ended up intriguing Dio enough to let her go and have his child. Or she was, like Mr Nijimura, a part of Dio’s cult for the money.

(which made me wonder if Hol Horse was in it for the money too, before Dio noticed he had a Stand and recruited him as an agent instead of a mere cult member...it’s a good possibility to think about!)

So yeah. The ladies are definitely not the mothers to Giorno, Donatello Versus, Rikiel and Ungalo. They are just there to tell you how Hol Horse REALLY was; the cowboy who willingly placed his neck under a raised guillotine to be a genuinely good person, even if circumstances did not allow him to be one.

However...I’d be lying if I say I don’t wish the three ladies Hol saved will reappear again and meet Hol to thank him for his help. I hope that happens in the upcoming CDDH novel.

Additionally...goddamn, Hol Horse is FUCKING STRONG. He managed to carry 3 grown women while running...just...wow.

Also, I’d like to believe Hol finished most of his cash during the SDC event to pay for this taxi driver. He was left with mostly coins, after all, and those too went to Boingo, just in case the kid got lost.

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Finally, please ignore my fangirling over this panel of Hol Horse remembering the Crusaders, and Polnareff’s goofy smile was part of his memory whereas the others are just...killed and dead.

As a huge HolPol/PolHol enjoyer, let me have a moment with this one ;-;♥♥♥

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Can’t wait for the final chapter, and certainly can’t wait for the novel!

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Special thanks to WNMY translators for translating this chapter! You all did wonderfully :D

#hol horse #jojo's bizarre adventure #crazy diamond's demonic heartbreak #jjba #cddh #jjba meta #cddh meta #i guess #this is long i know #bc this chapter is chock full of hol horse...i can't help myself i just have to dissect it as much as i could #ryoko kakyoin #josuke higashika #boingo #jean pierre polnareff #again sorry about the debunking...i guess a lot of fans forgot most of dio's kids are already born during SDC #especially giorno the boy had his stand when he was 3 just like josuke did due to the stand connection with dio

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passionesolja · 26 days

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#having a pansexual vampire off rn #bg3 #bg3 astarion #jjba #jojo bizarre adventure #jojos bizarre adventure #dio brando #jjba sdc #baldurs gate 3 #astarion ancunin #bg3 meta #jjba meta #astarion

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arr-jim-lad · 2 years

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i love how softly DIO speaks in his personal conversations with Pucci.

there's still the allure and elegance to the way DIO speaks, but he doesn't have that haughty aftertaste, but instead somewhat nurturing, i’d even be willing to stretch the description of it to ‘kind’

it's a very different vibe than when he speaks to vanilla ice. with ice you can definitely hear he still views him as below himself despite appreciating him, he speaks with a certain smugness.

with pucci it’s clear that he genuinely appreciates him

(just a note that i’m watching the dub, but i think it’s safe to assume the japanese voice acting has the same vibe)

#jojo's bizarre adventure #jjba #dio brando #enrico pucci #stone ocean #jjba meta

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rmbunnie · 2 years

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Okay so this is a stretch stretch but call me elastigirl because I can’t unthink this thought, I have already been Abbacchio-posting recently, and this is plaguing me: Leone Abbacchio means “Lion Lambmeat” or some variation of it iirc and that’s ridiculous and i’ll tell you why (Vento Aureo spoilers btw). The combination of lion and lamb (meat) really reminds me of that saying about March (which is Abbacchio’s birth month) coming “in like a lion, out like a lamb,” which, if you’re unfamiliar with it, basically means march starts out with harsh weather but by the end of the month it becomes pleasant and springlike. The thing that’s bugging me about this is that this is the role Abbacchio plays in the story, like exactly. He enters the narrative with an outlandish and needlessly cruel (albeit iconic) power move, that absolutely no reasonable person would think of. Giorno navigates it because he’s a weirdo who prioritizes being pleasant and cool over being reasonable, and I love that, but that was absolutely meant to be a harsh trump card that would send a normal person running. But he exits the narrative calm, helpful, leaving a clue for Giorno’s stand specifically to uncover, and he exits due to an utterly unnecessary act of kindness that left him defenseless to an attack he walked into unknowingly. Leone Abbacchio, Lion Lambmeat, enters the story like a lion, and leaves the narrative like a lamb (in two whole metaphorical senses!) And it would be ridiculous for a whole manga character to be based on an weather proverb, but WHAT KIND OF COINCIDENCE WOULD THAT BE. I mean, HE WAS EVEN BORN IN MARCH.

#im gonna sound really stupid if everyone else realized this right away and i just thought it was some realization #but i haven’t seen anyone say it yet so ummmghbjfjhhhh finders keepers i guess #all this to say abbacchio was warming up to giorno by the end #jjba #jojo's bizarre adventure #leone abbacchio #abbacchio #vento aureo #golden wind #part 5 jojo #golden wind spoilers #jjba spoilers #jjba meta #if you can even call it that #concerning ramblings might fit better than ‘meta’#but oh well #vento aureo spoilers #this is just words babey!

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erwinsfics · 3 months

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Saying youre an anti in the jjba fandom really puts the moron in oxymoron

#jjba #jjba part 5 #jojos bizarre adventure #jojo no kimyou na bouken #jjba meta #stop bullying artists #especially if these artists are from countries different than you #proshippers please interact #antis dni

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spw-stand-log · 2 years

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"Journey of the Arrow" diagram from Standlogy 2 reproduction:

(A. Kishibe, 2022)

#standlogy #journey of the arrow #jjba #spw foundation #stand arrow #jojo lore #jjba meta #the version in the booklet was in japanese #so I remade all the symbols as they appeared #so everyone can read it

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rev3rb · 2 years

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How Kakyoin vs T. D’arby Supports Kakyoin’s Backstory

Given that this arc is over 30 years old now, I wouldn’t be surprised if someone has said this before, but this is something I haven’t been able to stop thinking about.

So let me start off by saying that I actually personally hate that Kakyoin lost the fight vs Terrence T. D’arby. The loss by itself already felt cheap. When you take into account that Kakyoin just rejoined the group after being severely injured and proceeds to die shortly after this, then it makes it all the worse. I get the meta reasons behind why Kakyoin lost, but Kakyoin had nothing go right for him (unless you wanna count figuring out The World) for the entirety of the Crusaders’ time in Egypt and that sucks.

With that out of the way, let’s dive in.

At the start of the race, T. D’arby uses Atum to help boost his car. As shown by Kakyoin’s commentary, not only is he familiar with this strategy, but he also knows approximately how much time it takes to pull off, which is why he doesn’t start trying to do it himself. What’s worth pointing out is that Kakyoin isn’t surprised by T. D’arby using his stand here but that T’Darby is applying this strategy in the first place.

This is likely because Kakyoin is shown to be as accustomed to using his stand while playing F-Mega as T. D’arby. In fact, I would argue he’s even more accustomed to it as this is a very strange move that is implied to only work with stands. After all, the two times we see it, it’s Heirophant Green doing it, not Kakyoin himself. It should be safe to then conclude that Kakyoin truly is surprised by the application of the strategy itself more so than anything T. D’arby is doing physically.

So, this begs the question, if Kakyoin knew about this strategy and is accustomed to using his stand while playing video games, why didn’t he immediately start mashing the gas button with Hierophant Green himself? It’s not like he can really afford to lose this game. We’re just going to ignore that he does and things turn out fine regardless for the moment.

The answer is simple.

Kakyoin never had any friends growing up. He wasn’t interested in other people, which means it’s highly likely that anything he did in his leisurely time was done alone/with only Hierophant Green. He has likely never played F-Mega with another person. Possibly, he’s played with a family member that decided to humor him, but it’s pretty safe to say that most of his experience with the game comes from playing against bots.

On top of that, it’s important to establish that Kakyoin is incredibly good at and familiar with F-Mega. It’s a sentiment further backed by pretty much everything Kakyoin does/commentates on in this arc.

I don’t know if you’ve ever played a game to the point where you start memorizing events and maneuvers down to the exact second as Kakyoin has, but as someone who has (not nearly to that level but close enough), I can tell you that you start self imposing handicaps to keep the game fun. This is especially true in a game as arguably repetitive as a racing game where the bots can stop being a challenge after a while. Purposefully putting yourself at a disadvantage vs the bots is a great and easy way to keep the game feeling fresh. Not using the starting boost is then one of the simplest handicaps you can give yourself.

“But wait,” I hear you asking, “you said yourself that Kakyoin can’t afford to lose, so why is he purposefully putting himself at a disadvantage? His background shouldn’t matter.” A good point. Especially since Kakyoin isn’t the kind of person to do that kind of thing.

Joseph makes this clear. Yes, the DIO situation is a lot more dire than this one, but Kakyoin’s soul and Jotaro’s well being is still on the line here. There’s no real room for anything beyond trying your best. So the answer?

Habit. Again, he’s just not used to playing with other people. Maybe he’s played with someone who was willing to humor him before like I said earlier, but they likely didn’t have much skill so even if they knew about and used the boost, Kakyoin wouldn't have to try that hard to win. Between that and simply underestimating T. D’arby’s skill/knowledge, Kakyoin likely didn’t even think about using the starting boost. He’s probably never needed to use it himself to win. When you get used to purposefully not using an advantage, sometimes you momentarily forget it even exists in the first place until you see it being used.

And it’s not like Kakyoin doesn’t have a plan to deal with putting himself at an initial disadvantage.

Kakyoin’s spin move has to be incredibly practiced. Beyond having to know it’s even possible, something T. D’arby doesn’t seem to know until Kakyoin does it, it’s incredibly risky.

Kakyoin can’t afford to fall off the track. If he had miscalculated it, he would have lost right there and then. If the move is so risky, it seems a little drastic for the beginning of the race, and Kakyoin isn’t one to take unnecessary risk. However,

He’s well aware of his own limits and generally never over exerts himself. He wouldn’t risk pulling a move that could so easily lose him his soul if he wasn’t confident in his ability to pull it off. The fact that Kakyoin uses this spinning move twice supports his confidence in his ability to safely execute it.

Speaking of that second spinning maneuver, let’s talk about how that, and its failure to win Kakyoin the race, further showcases the idea that this arc perfectly supports Kakyoin’s friendless childhood.

This is a solid plan, and against anyone other than T. D’arby, it probably would have worked. It certainly would have worked against even the highest level bot.

Meanwhile, T. D’arby’s strategy is something that would only ever work against another person specifically. Not only do you have to get two cars through the tunnel, but you then need to have the proper power level discrepancy to be propelled to the other track. Not to mention that this all banks on the other player/bot deciding to hit you in such a way that propels you towards the other track. It’s highly unlikely you’re going to get two cars into that tunnel if one of them is a bot. You as the player would have to choose to enter the tunnel with a bot by driving on the wall as the bot is never going to do that itself. Sure, getting into the tunnel alongside a bot is possible, but if all that was highly unlikely, then getting a bot to not only not lose power in the tunnel but also knock you off the track at the right time has to be damn near impossible.

T. D’arby obviously knows this strategy is possible given the way he explains the situation here, which means he has to have done this before. Good luck getting this exact situation to happen with a bot not once, but enough times to know that this is a surefire strategy.

Quick aside. Given that I mentioned that Kakyoin’s spinning maneuver doesn’t seem to be something T. D’arby is familiar with, and therefore couldn’t have practiced against, I should point out that knocking cars off the track is something a car can do with simple bumping. You theoretically don’t need to spin like this to knock someone off the track. It should be even easier in this section of the race as, as we see in the beginning of the game, there are barriers in place that would make it difficult to fall off the track,

while in this particular section, there is nothing to prevent you from going over the edge.

In short, Kakyoin’s strategy relied solely on well established game mechanics and his own proven strategies that he could have figured out playing against anyone, be they bots or real people. T. D’arby’s strategy on the other hand relies so heavily on specific circumstances that he only could have ever figured this out by playing against someone else skilled enough to help him set up the situation. The only way Kakyoin could have learned of this strategy is if he played with other skilled players, and given his backstory, that would likely never happen.

It’s worth noting that Atum’s mind reading abilities wouldn’t have been useful in this situation either.

It only seems to work when T. D’arby himself asks a question with only two answers. No questions were ever involved in this race, so T. D’arby would have had to rely solely on what he knows works within the game. It really was just T. D’arby setting up a situation where Kakyoin was damned if he did, damned if he didn’t using incredibly specific circumstances.

At the end of the day though? I still think it’s such an asspull that T. D’arby won this one and will forever be salty about it on Kakyoin’s behalf LOL

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