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alternatehistoryworlds · 17 days

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A happier life for Henry VIII's children: Part 3.

Edward was the son of King Henry VIII of England and his third wife Jane Seymour. The birth of a healthy boy was a great miracle and joy not only for his father, but for the whole of England. Edward's childhood was happy, because he had his own mother with him, who with her gentle voice could calm and support him. But it did not last long, in 1547 the boy had to grow up sharply and take on his children's shoulders the responsibility for the whole country, because his father Henry VIII died. His older sister Mary, Queen of France, became regent until the little king came of age. Mary ruled in her brother's place for 8 years. In addition, Mary and Jane did not allow the latter's brothers to influence the young king. Edward and Thomas Seymour were angry about this and they even tried to remove Mary from power, but they failed. The Queen of France uncovered the plot and sent them both to the Tower for life. In 1557 Mary's regency ended and she returned to France, and Edward became the rightful ruler of his state. Two years earlier the king had become interested in Protestantism, and secretly from his mother and sister he began to study it. At a council, he told his lords that he wished all England to convert to this religion, and most of his advisors supported his idea. The Queen Dowager of England tried several times to dissuade her son, but he became angry and made it clear that he would not allow her to interfere in his affairs of state. Queen Mary of France also did not lag behind and tried to return her brother to Catholicism and her attempts were not successful. But there were also those who disagreed, and because of this there were riots and rebellions in the country, the rioters demanded that the king left his venture and returned to the true faith. However, the king was not deterred by their demands, Edward managed to quell the rebellions and to appease his subjects, he declared in public that he would be tolerant and let them believe what they wanted. And to reconcile Catholics and Protestants, Edward promised to marry a Catholic princess, but their children would be Protestants, and to marry his other older sister Elizabeth to a Protestant. In 1558, the princess married the eldest son of the King of Sweden and left England for good. The king himself married Mary Stuart a year later. The marriage between the King of England and the Scottish Queen was a very successful and cohesive one. Mary appointed her consort as her companion and they lived on two countries.

Jane of England(1560 - 1618). Duchess of Angoulême. In 1578 she married her cousin Charles. Their married life was not a happy one. After the birth of their last child, the couple finally drifted apart and stopped living together. Four children were born in the marriage.

Henry IX of England(1561 - 1611). King of England, Ireland and Scotland. In 1589 he became King of England, and in 1600 of Scotland. In 1605 he proclaimed himself king of Great Britain. He was married, but did not love his wife, during their marriage he never touched her. Also the king had a mistress who bore him 5 children out of wedlock: Mary, Edward, Elizabeth, Grace and James. Died at the age of 51 of bubonic plague.

James I of England(1563 - 1627). King of Great Britain. Inherited from his older brother, as the latter had no legitimate children. Also, unlike Henry, he loved his wife and never cheated on her. Husband of Elizabeth of Denmark, father of 11 children: Edward VII, Sophia, Charles, George, Isabella, Joan, Frederick, Barbara, Henrietta, Arabella and Robert.

Mary of England(1564 - 1590). Mary was given in marriage to her cousin at the age of 18. The marriage produced 4 children. In 1590, Mary contracted pneumonia and died on the anniversary of her father's death.

Elizabeth of England(1567 - 1570). In 1570, the princess caught cold, contracted pneumonia and died at the age of 3.

Margaret of England(1569 - 1624). She was married twice, but both her husbands died shortly after the marriage. After the death of her second husband, Margaret declared that she would never marry again. She founded a charitable foundation and helped anyone in need, she especially focused on helping women and children.

Edward of England(1572 - 1586). Duke of Somerset and Albany. From birth had poor health. Died at the age of 14 from smallpox.

Richard of England(1575 - 1655). Duke of Somerset and Albany. After the death of his brother in 1586 all his titles passed to him. The Prince was noted for his good health and poetic ability. During his lifetime he became a famous poet. In 1600 he married Elizabeth Howard, after the wedding Richard and Elizabeth removed from the court and began to live a happy and quiet family life. The marriage produced 7 children: Mary, William, Edward, Philip, Anne, Catherine, and Nicholas.

Jane Seymour loved her daughter-in-law as her own daughter, the dowager queen liked to spend time in the circle of her grandchildren. On her son, she had almost no influence, but the king loved his mother and because of respect sometimes listened to her advice. Jane died in 1565, and Edward was greatly grieved by her death. Mary, more than anyone else, understood how her brother felt and despite their differences on matters of religion, came to England to give him moral support. In the end, they finally reconciled. Edward VI was a king beloved by the nobility and the people. For most of his reign, he tried to try on Catholics and Protestants and prevent religious warfare within the country. On top of that, the king gave shelter and protection to Protestants who had fled religious persecution. Edward VI died of tuberculosis in 1589. He was buried in Westminster Abbey next to his parents and other family members. Eleven years later, his wife Mary Stuart was buried next to him.

#english history #history #royal family #royalty #history au #au #royal #henryviii #the tudors #16th century #british royal family #edwardvi #marytudor #mary stuart #anne boleyn #catherine of aragon #elizabethi #elizabeth tudor #jane seymour

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penneferofvenerburg · 1 year

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Honour and Glory (Chapter One)

Taglist: @marytudorbrandon @littlefreya @hertzwritings @blazingmoon62442 @penneferofvenerburg @henrycavillfanfics etc:)

Westminster Palace London England - 1553

It was certainly true that the the Tudor Court could be a little disappointing at times but on the hand it also can be rather thrilling to.

Lady Anne Boleyn was at Court as Lady in waiting to the Real Queen Katherine whom Lady Somerset had deeply attached to Lady Anne had been so heartless towards the Queen that Lady Somerset felt compelled to help.

Honour was one of the things that many of the King's men stood for within the Royal Court of Henry VIII, Lady Somerset was no different she was the cousin of the King and a rival for Anne to gloat over at Suppers with his majesty.

" Charles! May I introduce Lady Y/n Somerset My Irish Cousin"? She was certainly very beautiful. " my Lady! It is a pleasure to make your acquaintance here at Court I have not seen a finer beauty at Court for a while"! Charles smiled as he kissed her hand.

" Your Grace! I hear you're a great favourite of His majesty ... I Thankyou for being there for him"! You reply.

" please my dear lady I am only doing what any old friend would do being there when he should call upon me"! Came his reply.

" Come my Lady"! Charles offered his arm and lead her to the top table to where Lady Anne was sitting at the left hand side of the King, Lady Somerset made her sentiments clear where she was concerned. " you need not look at her ... shes a mere no nobody ... talk with me instead I have some stories to tell you"! Charles chuckled.

Charles gallantly showed Lady Somerset to her chair and poured a goblet of wine. " I Thankyou Your Grace"! Came Lady y/n's reply.

" Charles you must dance with my cousin she is the most accomplished dancer I know"! His majesty said with a smile.

Just then Lady Anne looked at across at Lady Y/n and gave her the evils evidently she was doing a much better job at handling the situation. Lady Jane Seymour was old friend of Lady Somersets.

" Lady Jane! Its wonderful to see you! How is your brother Edward? Is he well"? Lady Y/n asked.

" Why yes his married now ... perhaps you know her Lady Anne Seymour everyone calls nan Stanhope"! Came Jane's reply.

Charles watched Lady Y/n as she caught up lady Jane, with a smile presently on his lips he could not hide it for when he was near he felt his passion for her grow almost immediately. " You have to have Charles"! His majesty jested smiling at him.

" A Dance .... Music"! Ordered his Majesty.

" My Lady.... May I have this dance"? Charles smiled widely, " you may Your Grace"! Came your reply with a degree of more grace than the Kings Mistress ever had.

The Duke lead her onto the dance floor her skirt rustling as she begun to dance with Charles.

" Goodness my Lady! You are the most ampolished dancer I've ever seen"! Charles complimented you.

Lady Anne was whispering to Lady Somersets couin The King " Suffolk seems taken with Lady Somerset"! She whispered.

As th music continued, Anne was becoming increasingly jealous over the newest member of the Court. " Take care my love for she my steal you from me"! Anne Boleyn then whispers to his majesty.

Lady Jane Seymour was also the prettiest at Court, she was very with everyone.

•••••••••••••••••••

That evening Supper was over, and Charles Duke of Suffolk escorted Lady Somerset back to her Chambers in the palace on the Western side. Queen Katherine was suffering grievously for sins that Lady Anne had done to her robbing her of a home she had built with her husband for their daughter Princess Mary to grow up in.

" May i escort you my Lady"! Charles smiled as she took hi arm an begun to walk toward her apartment. " I do not think it is wise for you to be here at such a time when his majesty is umm .... focused on her"!, you repiled " Why your grace! Do you suppose they I am too feeble to stand up for myself"? Charles chuckled " Hevens no my lady I just mean that heaven forbid if you were hurt in some way by her I do not trust them"!, " Your Grace you mustn't dislike her surely the King will banish you if you speak against his marriage to Lady Anne"! They walked darkened corridors and you both came to a stop Charles pulled you into a secret part of the palace where often people kiss or make love secretly without anyone noticing.

" Charles what heavens name are you doing"? You asked him aghast. " For the love god! You are truly beautiful and I cannot go another second without kissing you my Lady"! He confessed.

" charles please stop"! You begged

Your plea went unheard and he continued to come toward you, " Your Grace I cannot do this"! You pleaded with him pushing him off. " my lady! I meant what I said I'm sorry if I've caused any harm to you ..... that was not my intention"!

" Goodnight Your Grace"! You curtised before turning to leave.

♧♧♧♧♧

The next morning Charles was out walking the gardens alone, when his eye caught sight of Lady Somerset in the Window of her bedchamber.

Lady Y/n Somerset made her way out into the royal gardens where there was a great space of lawn to roam with her book quietly reading.

As she roamed the lawn she heard a deep voice behind her.

" Lady Somerset! You should not be out here alone"! Charles chided her gently with a smile.

" Why ever not Your Grace I'm a grown woman"! You retorted.

" that us true my good Lady but I'm afraid you maybe in moral danger of attracting young men"! Charles smirked.

It seems Lady Somerset could not hold her guard up much longer her own feelings were coming out now.

" Your Grace! If youd excuse me I have to finish my book"! Charles took the book from her hands and sat next to her.

Her inner Goddess was telling her that Charles was the only one within the Court to single her out and she was reacting to him .... to his voice. " Allow me to read it to you"! Charles smiled offering to read the book.

The King and Lady Anne were also walking the gardens discussing their wedding when his majesty caught sight of his best friend and his Cousin getting comfortable with each other.

" It seems The Duke of Suffolk is falling in love once more"! Henry observed. " What if he asks for her hand will you object"? Anne asked him. Henry laughed " not at all! He is an honourable man and I believe everything will turn out the way it should in the end,"! His majesty went on.

The weather begun to turn, it was thundering with rain Charles shut the book and escorted Lady y/n back inside.

" We shall continue inside I do not wish for you to catch a chill"! Charles smiled.

" You're my cousins best friend I'd hate for you to be executed because you've betrayed him"! Lady Somerset replied. " my dear lady! The King is an honourable man he'll see this what it really is"! Charles told her. By that same counter they walked the corridors in companipnable silence, Lady Anne was about the halls and so Charles wished to avoid her, " perhaps we should find another way"! Charles suggested kindly, he hated the Boleyns and norfolk though he was older and wiser than Charles was.

" You are not afraid of Mistress boleyn surely charles"? Lady Somerset replied incredulous, " No I'm afraid at what she might do to you my lady"! Came the Duke's reply.

A court as lively as this, was full of rumours scandalous false hope that no one about it enjoyed. " There is no way round my lord"! Lady Amelia smiled, Charles puffed out his cheeks and carried on past Mistress boleyn whom scowled at him behind his back.

" what hard scowl that Mistress boleyn has"! Lady Amelia commented, the herald announced them into the presence chamber where Boleyn Earl of Wiltshire was there and Lord Rochford thry both scowled at Lady Amelia.

Indeed she quite the innocent young woman and pious too, she prayed daily just as Her Majesty had done when she tended chapel, Amelia namely felt she should do so, she prayed to god to keep Charles safe and fir his majesties health, and for the lives of the future Children produced by lady Anne when she marries his majesty The King.

To Charles she was the most pure of all the maidens he had had within the Court, though they were for pleasure and sport, but Charles more for Lady Somerset than for any of his other courtly conquests she was not that she was a learned girl with intelligent thinking and manners she was wise too, his majesty was reminded of the importance of family whenever Lady Amelia was about the Court. " Charles! My lady! How do you find yourself here do you like it"? His majesty asked her, she reverently curtised to his majesty and repiled looking across at Charles giving a secret smile of support " Yes your majesty I believe I am quite pleased with my position here"! , the King proceeded to ask, " Is his Grace taking good care of you? Is he behaving himself"? Henry smirked and winked at Charles, Amelia catching on to the banter between the two men, she laughed " haha! Yes youd majesty he is ... he has been the most kind and gallant gentlemen I've had the pleasure to know at Court"! , " Good excellent! Charles you may escort my Lady Somerset back to her apartments"! Charles bowed deeply and accepted that he take his leave with Lady Amelia.

The King, Compton and Sir Anthony Knivert all went haunting, while Charles tended Lady Amelia, Sir William was most kind and considerate as was Sir Anthony Knivert but they were not Lady Amelia's tastes.

" In you go my Lady"! Charles escorted Amelia into her chambers, " I shall return presently I have to speak with his majesty as matter of great urgency"! Charles told her kissing her fingers lightly before he left, Amelia guesed as to what had caused this sudden change in Charles's behaviour, when Charles had gotten to the presence chamber he found that his majesty had gone. Feeling helpless he hurried back to his charge Lady Amelia.

Amelia stalked about her chambers awaiting anxiously for news of Charles, he came into the chamber breathless " I'm sorry my dear it's no use his majesties gone your haunting with other Courtiers"! Charles apologies. Amelia stalks toward him now, " My Dearest Charles you tried that's all that matters! I'm sure whatever it was that you were fretting over has now abated"! Amelia smiled kindly.

To be continued .......

#henry cavill #henry cavill fanfic #charles brandon #the tudors #henry cavill fanfiction

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edwardseymour · 2 months

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soo ... about that seymour adaptation...

john seymour (jr)

the death of a child is always painful (and i think it must have been certainly painful for john to be at court/involved in the mourning of the king's son in 1511 because of how soon it was after the loss of his own son, less than a year (john died july 1510, henry duke of cornwall died february 1511). the loss of the eldest son could only have been more difficult because of the fact that he represented the early, optimistic days of his parent’s marriage and their ambitions for the family. in an adaptation emphasising that ambition and pressure, no doubt john’s death placed a lot of difficulty and pressure on the surviving children’s positions in the family.

he died 1510. seeing as the next child was born c.1500, let’s assume john was born c. 1499, so he would have been about ten or eleven when he died, so old enough to reach a point of understanding his position as the heir apparent (to some extent).

moreover, edward (born around 1500) and henry (born around 1503) would have been close in age with him, and presumably educated with him. edward would have suddenly become the heir apparent at the age of about ten, so john’s sudden death would be significant and impactful for him — and henry, who makes the transition from third to second son.

it’s less clear if thomas, only about two when john died, would have had any relationship with him, but that difference in formative experiences could impact thomas and edward’s relationship relative to each other and the idea of rivalry with a brother.

primary sources: william seymour, ordeal by ambition

john, anthony, margery seymour

we have no idea when they were born. there is a gap in births between jane (c.1509) and thomas (c.1508), and then elizabeth (c.1518) which might situate these children as being born somewhere around this time, although sir john’s monument lists john and anthony as being born before jane, whilst margery is listed as being born in between elizabeth and dorothy. so, maybe the girls are all closer in age, with thomas closer in age to his sisters than his brothers?

their deaths also equalise the gender ratio of seymour children — with three surviving boys (edward, henry, thomas) and three surviving girls (jane, elizabeth, dorothy).

all died young — sir john’s monument recounts that they “dyed in theire infancy” — so they’re unfortunately less significant as individuals as opposed to their presence and how it impacts other people in the family. the fact that they died in 1528 maybe means that their death coincides with the outbreak of sweating sickness. if that pandemic is what killed three of jane seymour’s siblings, it might explain her reported fear of the plague, as it does seem to have been remarkable: ‘your ladyship will not believe how fearful the queen’s grace is of the sickness’.

it would be good to explore the emotional world that margery wentworth inhabited given the loss of these children, especially as she does not seem to have been at court much. further, if they died during a pandemic, it should be explored how the pandemic impacted the general household. many of us know well the stress and difficulty of bereavement in a pandemic, and how it impacts a family, even if a bereavement is not directly in consequence of the pandemic.

there's also definitely something you could do with the theme of family ambition, and the symbolism of the two children (more if you include john jr) who were the parent’s namesakes, dying in infancy.

primary sources: john aubrey, an essay towards the description of the north division of wiltshire; elizabeth norton, jane seymour: henry viii’s true love

john seymour (illegitimate)

i find bastard children so interesting in terms of the emotional space they occupy in a context that paradoxically doesn’t accomodate them but so often relies upon them, when illegitimacy is ultimately a construct. his existence exposes the lie of marriage as a loving union, when politics and wealth demands these marriages be arranged, and the children born to them are born to fulfil a function.

he is born around 1530, so he’s a fair bit younger that his half-siblings - the majority of whom have left home/established themselves already. there’s something fun about the seymours at court undermining anne boleyn as illegitimate, and jane’s own ascent, on the basis on invalidating anne and her daughter elizabeth… when their own father has a small bastard child at home. one wonders if there was a tension there when henry and anne visited wolf hall in 1535 - almost certainly little john would not have been present, but nevertheless, margery playing the dutiful wife and running her husband’s house when hosting the king and queen in the wake of the death of several small children and the birth of an illegitimate son could surely be used to add some emotional weight to their relationship.

he marries joan poyntz in 1568; her father’s will in 1556 mentioned £200 which he owed john “so that he assure my daughter jane a living”. so, he ultimately did well, but we don’t know much about his life, unfortunately.

primary sources: david loades, the seymours of wolf hall; william seymour, ordeal by ambition; paul c. reed, descent of st. maur family

#seymour adaptation tag #consider this post some spring cleaning ... the starter before the main course haha. but i really feel like these children matter #in a family adaption!

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fideidefenswhore · 10 months

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Jane was also approached to take a political role once again and Sir Robert Constable, one of the Yorkshire rebels, wrote to his son begging him to ask the queen to sue for his life. Constable was confident of Jane's support, writing that 'Sir Henry Wentworth [Jane's grandfather] and my father were cousins [germane] [...] if Her Grace knew this by good means she could make suit for me.' Jane may well have known this but she had no intention of speaking out again for the rebels [...] never again would she risk her position for the sake of political influence. Constable and the other rebel leaders did not escape the king's vengeance, all going to their death as traitors.

Jane Seymour: Henry VIII's True Love, Elizabeth Norton

#elizabeth norton

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dolce-tenebra-toscana · 11 months

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Six the musical, but it's Vento Aureo ( i know it's completely absurd but hear me out!!)

Ps: i am joking, i love the queens who are rapresented in the musical and i hate Henry the VIII with every fiber of my body

Bruno : Catherine of Aragon ( he IS the paragon for royalty~), cause no matter who stole his crown...He KNOWS who's the true ruler here

Illuso: Anne Boleyn ( he could and WOULD break an entire country apart just because, also lil b*tch knows he is sexy)

Abbacchio: Jane Seymour ( the only one we truly loved~) jokes aside this goth bby is tragic enough to have the sad " gone too soon " queen vibe.

Formaggio: Anne of Cleves (he is the king of the castle~ get down you dirty bastard, get down~) he is the one that got away by PURE LUCK, and spent all his money in parties and thanking every god out there for being rich af and alive

Fugo: Katherine Howard, they are both babies and both put their trust into people who should have protected them...we all know what happened ( i know with fugo only in the anime but still ) also i think pink suits him a lot

Prosciutto: Catherine Parr ( the survivor) and i think he would put everything he ever dreamt or wished for aside if his boss commanded him to, just like Lady Catherine did when she became queen

#jojo part 5 #la squadra #bucci gang #six the musical #this is so silly #but hear me out #i am back into musical mood #i think these boys would be perfect for the roles #benny rambles #headcanons

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earlymodernbarbie · 2 years

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Episode 3 was ok. I still hate Thomas Seymour with every ounce of my being (and trust me, that’s A LOT of ounces). The dress cutting was abhorrent and then when he ripped it off??? I was disgusted by him. Plus the fact that Elizabeth was pressured out of mourning for her father made me sad. Like Henry VIII was the worst dad ever, but it’s clear that Elizabeth cared for him. It’s not very far fetched to think that a young girl would still be sad over her father’s death a few months on. I love the friendship Mary has with Sir Pedro. It’s so obvious that all she wants is a true friend and I want her to have that. Stephen Gardiner is weird, but that’s probably because I always imagine him as being super old. I was grossed out by the scene at the end, the one where they show flashbacks as Elizabeth is leaving. I understand where they’re trying to go with this, but I’m not a fan of it. It’s going to be something where Elizabeth looks back and realizes how fucked up and abusive Thomas Seymour was, but at this point she thinks everything’s ok because she’s “not a child”. Personally, I would have preferred if the show portrayed Elizabeth as having a small crush, but then as Seymour gets more bold, it shows her becoming upset by his advances. The scene where Elizabeth pseudo apologizes to Jane was sweet, but honestly I’m having trouble focusing on this episode due to issues going on in my country and the severe sunburn I got by just stepping outside. Ok that’s all I have to say for now, these last few days have been a lot to handle and I’m tired.

#becoming elizabeth #becoming elizabeth spoilers #tw: csa #mary i #elizabeth i #katherine parr #lady jane grey #jane grey #edward vi #obligatory fuck thomas seymour

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sandra-in-wonderland · 1 year

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#jane seymour #henry viii #History #historyedit #tudorsedit #trinity sunday #1537 #annabelle wallis #jonathan rhys meyers #the tudors #jane seymour - henry viiis true love #elizabeth norton #*

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jokerislandgirl32 · 2 years

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Six: The Musical…Wild Kratts Style

Trigger/Caution Warning: Mild Cursing, Suggestive Lyrics, and potentially trigging subjects in the song lyrics.

Below you will find: Cast of Characters, Reasons Selected, and Accompanying Songs. The only characters not included in this are the bros and Jimmy Z, I am sorry they did not make “the cut.” Let’s agree to think they would be the audience to this musical!

Henry VIII -Gaston Gourmand

Okay, no hate on Gourmand, but I had to choose him for Henry, it was between him and Zach, and I feel like he fit the role better.

Catherine of Aragon - Aviva

Aviva would be Catherine of Aragon mainly because of this song, I feel like the vibe of the song matches her personality best. I also think she would be a faithful wife, she would stand by her spouse through everything and would not easily accept someone trying to divorce her. AKA, she will…

“be queen til the end of my life.”

Anne Boleyn - Zach

Zach is a flirt, let’s face it. He would absolutely be the type to probably revel in making someone fall for him, regardless of their marital status. So, I can see him not really caring if he was the cause of a divorce. He will also be a whiny brat if the spouse did not treat him right, and it might end up…not ending well…for him.

“Sorry not sorry ‘bout what I said, Don’t lose your head.”

Jane Seymour - Koki

Koki gives me Mother Hen vibes big time, I feel like she would be the best mother and an amazing spouse or partner, and being completely devoted to her family. This soulful song just seems to match those vibes perfectly.

“You can build me up, you can tear me down, you can try but I’m unbreakable.”

Anna of Cleves - Donita

There was no question to who should get this song, it is totally Donita. She is the fashionista, and would look fabulous in her profile picture, and if no one agrees they are sorely mistaken. She is the queen, and will let everyone know that is the case.

“All eyes on me, no criticism, I look more rad, than Lutheranism.”

Katherine Howard - Dabio

This is my favorite song, and I originally wanted it to go to Zach, but personality wise, this works better for Dabio. He is taken advantage of for his naivety and good looks, and he willingly takes the mistreatment (But I am waiting for the day he stand up for himself, I love Dabio so much).

“You say I’m all you need, all you want, you don’t need to plead.”

Catherine Parr - Paisley

This is was a last minute change, but this is totally her. She does not care about love, she will not be an trophy wife, and she will lead her life as she sees fit.

“Henry, yeah, it’s true, I’ll never belong to you, cos I am not your toy to enjoy.”

Well…that’s it, hope you enjoyed this post!

PS: I do have a few alternate cast lists I can include if anyone is interested, and even one I used with my OC Violet, feel free to let me know if you want to see them!

#wild kratts #six the musical #aviva corcovado #koki wild kratts #zach varmitech #wild kratts zach #donita donata #paisley paver #dabio wild kratts #gaston gourmand #tw suggestive #tw suggestive lyrics #tw cursing #tw swearing #tw violence #tw violence mention in songs #tw death mention #i hope y’all enjoy this!#Spotify

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electrathejellicle123 · 2 years

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I'm currently reading Alison Weir's Six Tudor Queens series, AGAIN. I love the series so much! Heres what I think of them:

Katherine of Aragon: The true Queen

Before I read this, I wasn't quite fascinated by Henry VIII's first queen. But when I started reading this on Christmas day, the day before I tested positive for covid, I couldn't put the book down! It was really good! It helped with my self isolation.

Anne Boleyn: A King's Obsession

When I saw 'Six fingers' somewhere in the book, my heart broke. She never had six fingers! It was a myth. By the end of the book, I felt so bad for her. Henry just wanted to get rid of her just to marry Mistress Jane Seymour...but I love this book so much! I'm currently reading it again now. Yes, Anne Boleyn is my favourite, I even have an Anne Boleyn necklace lol.

Jane Seymour: The haunted Queen

AHHHH! the end of the book....oh the sadness! OH THE TEARS IN MY EYES WTH. And now Mary, Elizabeth and now baby Edward...don't have a mother. My god, this is heartbreaking. Love this book so much 😭

Anne of Cleves: Queen of Secrets

I wasn't fascinated by Anna before, but also, Like the Aragon book, When I read it, I felt like...'I can't believe I thought this...'

I first read it during the first days of February.

Katheryn Howard: The tainted Queen

WHY ARE THE ENDINGS OF THESE BOOKS SO SAD! WHYYY *sobs loudly*

When it ends after Katheryn placing her head on the block and praying...heart was shattered into pieces. She was very young. But we don't know whether she was guilty or innocent, so it is up for debate. We don't know whether she had pregnancies or not, as well.

Katherine Parr: The Sixth Wife

This made me understand Katherine more. May I just say....THOMAS SEYMOUR IS A IDIOT. Poor Lizzie. I have mixed feelings for Katherine Parr, overall.

Really good book series, I love it 😁

#Tudors #Catherine of Aragon #Anne Boleyn #Jane Seymour #Anne of Cleves #Katherine Howard #Catherine Parr

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somescenecatholic · 1 year

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Kids: Oh listen, ye all to a tale that's true When the War of the Roses tore England in two King Richard III one fateful day Fought Henry Tudor in a brutal fray For poor King Richard life grew worse He lost his kingdom for want of a horse Henry VII was then made king To Elizabeth of York he offered his ring She said

Elizabeth: I do! Let's give it a fling!

Kids: This union again made England one The couple was blessed with a healthy son Young Henry grew up in Catherine's home When his father passed on he ascended the throne Henry VIII took a wife from Spain Catherine Aragon was her name She bore him a daughter a cute little one But to keep the throne he needed a son

Slappy: Back then, that's how things were done

Hello Nurse: For girls, it really wasn't much fun

Kids: Their rocky marriage couldn't get worse But the pope refused to grant a divorce So Henry started a church of his own He got his divorce and stayed on the throne

Mrs Kaboom: Then Henry VIII wed Anne Boleyn His former wifey's handmaiden Anne gave birth to Elizabeth But with no male kin, well you do the math!

Kids: Poor Anne Boleyn, she lost her head So once again, King Henry wed Jane Seymour gave to him a prince

Baby Dot: But poor ol' Jane hasn't woken up since

Young Yakko, Young Wakko, and Baby Skippy: So for a while, our Henry grieves Then he marries Anne of Cleves Anne came from fine German stock

Nora: She had a face that could stop a clock!

Young Cora, Young Katie Kaboom, Baby Dot, and Baby Zubi: Their marriage was cancelled in less than a year His fifth wife, Catherine Howard, was dear But Henry found out that her love was not true

Slappy: He gave her the axe, what's a fella to do?

Kids: So after five, came wife number six Catherine Parr is who Henry picks He promised her he would do her no harm So six wives proved to be the charm!

Azola's ghost: We interrupt this song to briefly review the fate of King Henry VIII's six wives. So here's what happened, in Order, to wives one through six

Baby Zubi: Divorced, beheaded, died! Divorced, beheaded, survived!

Azola's ghost: Once again, that's...

Baby Zubi: Divorced, beheaded, died! Divorced, beheaded, survived! Thank you. Thank you very much

Azola's ghost: Now, back to our song!

Kids: Henry gained pound right after pound 'Til he needed machinery to move him around He weighed about a quarter ton 'Cause he couldn't resist a sticky bun In fifteen-hundred forty-seven Henry VII went off to heaven

Baby Zubi: Or maybe for his dirty tricks To H-E-double hockey sticks!

Kids: His young son Edward was only ten When he took the English throne but then Poor Edward died by age fifteen His reign was followed by a queen Jane Grey ruled for just nine days

Slappy: She lost her head, to coin a phrase!

Kids: Mary Tudor was next in line

Mary: The British throne is mine, mine, mine!

Kids: Mary had strength, she took no flack

Hello Nurse and Mandy: She brought the Catholic church right back!

Kids: At forty-two Mary met her death Then along came queen Elizabeth She was loved by her people and made England strong

Slappy: She had a few boyfriends, they didn't last long

Kids: The Elizabethan age was just and fair But Elizabeth never gave birth to an heir

And so we sing our last refrain The end finally came to the Tudor's reign Elizabeth died in 1603 The end of the Tudors' family tree

Young Yakko, Young Wakko, and Baby Skippy: The end of the Tudors

Young Cora, Young Katie Kaboom, Baby Dot, and Baby Zubi: There can be no disputers

Kids: The end of the Tudors' family tree... Chop, chop, chop, chop, chop, chop, chop!

Baby Zubi: Timber!

rip tudors

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nastya-sokolova-2002 · 1 year

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Elizabeth: I do! Let's give it a fling!

Slappy: Back then, that's how things were done

Hello Nurse: For girls, it really wasn't much fun

Kids: Their rocky marriage couldn't get worse But the pope refused to grant a divorce So Henry started a church of his own He got his divorce and stayed on the throne

Mrs Kaboom: Then Henry VIII wed Anne Boleyn His former wifey's handmaiden Anne gave birth to Elizabeth But with no male kin, well you do the math!

Kids: Poor Anne Boleyn, she lost her head So once again, King Henry wed Jane Seymour gave to him a prince

Baby Dot: But poor ol' Jane hasn't woken up since

Young Yakko, Young Wakko, and Baby Skippy: So for a while, our Henry grieves Then he marries Anne of Cleves Anne came from fine German stock

Nora: She had a face that could stop a clock!

Young Cora, Young Katie Kaboom, Baby Dot, and Baby Zubi: Their marriage was cancelled in less than a year His fifth wife, Catherine Howard, was dear But Henry found out that her love was not true

Slappy: He gave her the axe, what's a fella to do?

Kids: So after five, came wife number six Catherine Parr is who Henry picks He promised her he would do her no harm So six wives proved to be the charm!

Azola's ghost: We interrupt this song to briefly review the fate of King Henry VIII's six wives. So here's what happened, in Order, to wives one through six

Baby Zubi: Divorced, beheaded, died! Divorced, beheaded, survived!

Azola's ghost: Once again, that's...

Baby Zubi: Divorced, beheaded, died! Divorced, beheaded, survived! Thank you. Thank you very much

Azola's ghost: Now, back to our song!

Baby Zubi: Or maybe for his dirty tricks To H-E-double hockey sticks!

Kids: His young son Edward was only ten When he took the English throne but then Poor Edward died by age fifteen His reign was followed by a queen Jane Grey ruled for just nine days

Slappy: She lost her head, to coin a phrase!

Kids: Mary Tudor was next in line

Mary: The British throne is mine, mine, mine!

Kids: Mary had strength, she took no flack

Hello Nurse and Mandy: She brought the Catholic church right back!

Kids: At forty-two Mary met her death Then along came queen Elizabeth She was loved by her people and made England strong

Slappy: She had a few boyfriends, they didn't last long

Kids: The Elizabethan age was just and fair But Elizabeth never gave birth to an heir

And so we sing our last refrain The end finally came to the Tudor's reign Elizabeth died in 1603 The end of the Tudors' family tree

Young Yakko, Young Wakko, and Baby Skippy: The end of the Tudors

Young Cora, Young Katie Kaboom, Baby Dot, and Baby Zubi: There can be no disputers

Kids: The end of the Tudors' family tree... Chop, chop, chop, chop, chop, chop, chop!

Baby Zubi: Timber!

079:The song is very amazing!

#scp containment breach #scp fanart #scp foundation #scp fandom #ask scp in my blog #not art #scp 079

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josieandthepussycatsofficial · 2 years

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"These strange little quirks of history, in which people in earlier time periods were actually more accepting of women’s autonomy in reproductive matters than we are today, are starting to get some play in the media in the post-Dobbs era, but it’s very hard to get past a popular conception of time’s trajectory in which things used to be terrible, got slowly better, and now are getting worse."

I asked Sara McDougall, a scholar of medieval history who writes about gender, whether Queen Aemma’s c-section scene rang true. Not very, she replied. “The idea that they would do it and do it in this way is a gross imposition of a medievalism—the idea that medieval patriarchy must be the same or worse than ours, therefore since we don’t care about mothers and only love fetuses, so too they,” wrote McDougall in an email. “Totally no. They were very keen on protecting mothers from harm.”

Our knowledge about how many c-sections might have been attempted in the Middle Ages is extremely scant, but what we do know points to the idea that the operation would have been performed on dead women, not the living. It was extremely uncommon for medical texts from the time to recommend the performance of cesareans on living women—before the 20th century, only a few outlying (and often-mocked) doctors even believed that c-section could result in a living mother and child. But the church did require midwives to do (very primitive) c-sections after maternal death, if they thought the fetus was still alive, in order to remove and baptize the baby.

Could some men, as Sapochnik describes it, have chosen the fetus over the mother and ordered a c-section done anyway? McDougall points out that men were usually not at all involved with birth, which was the province of female relatives, neighbors, and midwives. And historian Renate Blumenfeld-Kosinski, who wrote a book on medieval c-sections, finds that church advice in this period did not recommend elevating the fetus over the mother in decision-making during birth. In fact, some writers offering guidance on the matter explicitly recommended the opposite. One contemporaneous English translation of Saint Thomas Aquinas’ writings on baptism (a topic that overlapped with medical ethics around birth because of the importance the church placed on it) contained the following line: “Whan the woman is feble and the child may noght comyn out, then it is better that the chylde be slayne than the moder of the child also dye.” “Of course the church was against abortion,” wrote Blumenfeld-Kosinski, “but it seems that at least in the context of Caesarean birth the question of a choice between the mother’s or the child’s life never arose.”

This is not to say that this kind of situation, in which a husband sacrificed a wife for a child, never, ever happened. No less a prince than Henry VIII supposedly said, as Jane Seymour lay in childbed in 1537: “Save the child by all means, for it is easier to get wives than children.” (Although there was once a rumor that Seymour was delivered by c-section, we don’t know what happened to cause her to die shortly after Edward VI’s birth—possibly, puerperal fever, an embolism, or a retained placenta.) But before the advent of anesthesia and antibiotics and the perfection of the c-section operation in the 20th century, many birth attendants faced with a crisis operated on the theory that it was better to come out with (as one 19th-century doctor put it) “a childless mother than a motherless child.” As female midwives were increasingly replaced by male doctors at births, those doctors, armed with metal instruments, might even make the difficult call to use a technique called craniotomy to collapse a fetus’ head and pull it out in pieces, killing it in order to save the mother.

#reproductive justice #house of the dragon #medievalism #womens history

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fideidefenswhore · 2 years

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Were Mary Tudor and Jane Seymour close like on Tudors? Do you think they would have remained close if Jane lived?

Well, I think this speaks to a bigger-picture tradition (reinforced by The Tudors, et al) that Henry's marriage to Jane Seymour presaged a Norman Rockwell-esque merry little (step)family, idyll of sorts.

To wit:

She had achieved nearly everything she set out to do: she had given the King the son he so desperately needed, she had helped to restore the Lady Mary to the succession and her father’s affections, and she had used her influence to bring about the advancement of her family. She had provided the King with a family life for the first time in years, and had meddled hardly at all in matters of religion or politics. His grief at her death is testimony of his love for her. It was, in every respect, the most successful of his six marriages, and it was the only one to result in a surviving male heir. Alison Weir

"A family life for the first time in years"... meaning? Henry Fitzroy was not his family? Margaret Douglas was not his family (Margaret, who was placed under arrest in the Tower soon after his marriage to Jane and, there being some debate amongst historians whether she was released during Jane's queenship or after, makes this an especially interesting assertion)? Margaret Tudor was not his family (they had not seen each other for some years, but that was hardly Anne's doing, whom Margaret referred to as her “dearest sister”)? Elizabeth was not his family?

True enough that the marriage with Anne Boleyn led to a rift between Henry and his younger sister, and brother-in-law, and indeed one with his eldest daughter. They were not the only family members Henry had, but were, apparently, the only ones that mattered.

“It was the realisation of one of [Jane’s] dearest hopes to have Mary with her at court, and she kept her stepdaughter often in her company, walking with her hand in hand. Jane and Mary developed a deep and lasting friendship and Jane always ensured that Mary was treated with respect.” — Elizabeth Norton “Jane Seymour, Henry VIII’s True Love”

To speak more specifically to the ask, we have this. Now, I don't want to sound c*nty, which means I probably will, but...we don't really know if Jane and Mary would have had a deep and lasting friendship, in the circumstances of Jane's son effectively disbarring Mary further, reifying the Act of Parliament that had with his very existence, etc. Their 'friendship', if one can term a step-familial relationship within a very restrictive and hierarchically stratified power structure, that, was all of one year, for the very simple reason that Jane died in late 1537. Any prediction for what it would have shaped out to be had Jane been Henry VIII's last queen remains counterfactual.

The source for them walking 'hand in hand' is the Spanish Chronicle, an account written during Edward VI's reign that is rife with errors (refers to George Boleyn as the Duke of Somerset, records that Catherine Howard was Henry's fourth wife, and Anne of Cleves his fifth) as well as several sensationalistic, otherwise uncorroborated, stories (it is the tome from whence comes the tale of Anne Boleyn calling for 'marmalade', and an old woman [?] knowing that 'marmalade' was the code for Mark Smeaton, taking him from the cupboard and putting him in her bed).

At first I thought this very unlikely, not because of anything we know of Jane's personality (since we really don't know very much), but because it would be against court protocol, suggest they were equal in status soon after an Act of Parliament had diminished Mary's, and Jane seems to have followed court protocol to the letter. But then, I remembered Anne Boleyn's offer to Mary in 1536-- that if she came to court and honored her as Queen, she could walk alongside her, rather than behind her, and not have to carry her train (nothing about walking hand-in-hand, obviously, but it suggests that the offer of walking side-by-side was not so unprecedented as to render it impossible).

As to friendship, we have some gifts exchanged between them, but not much more evidence than that. Something that might be pertinent to note is that the Spanish Chronicle, while it is the main source that really speaks to ‘friendship’ between Mary and Jane, also records that Jane denigrated her youngest stepdaughter and her predecessor, very publically. I’m of the opinion that if you find this a credible source (which I do not, fwiw), you kind of have to take 1 + 1.

My own personal theory is that, being that there are so many errors, I don’t think it was written by a Tudor courtier, but rather someone that had a relationship with someone that was. That it was written during the reign of Edward VI leads me to believe that there was a potential motive here to nudge Edward towards leaving Mary his heir or at least treating her well, by perhaps exaggerating the intimacy and tenderness of her relationship with his natural mother. Since for much of his reign he was giving preferment to Elizabeth (this would also explain the story of his mother disparaging her, to an extent)...although he never did, I think this left some with the impression that he might make her heir instead of Mary (when as we know, he bypassed them both).

So, there’s the extent of what I’ll say about the Spanish Chronicle. I’m going to say also, that the letters written by Mary, and about Mary, during Jane’s queenship suggest a lot of insecurity on Mary’s part, and an amount of deference towards Jane that suggests fear > affection (not fear of Jane, persay, but fear of not stepping a foot wrong and remaining high in her father’s estimation).

I have received your letters, "no less full of motherly joy for my towardness of reconciliation than of most prudent counsel for my further proceeding therein," which of your goodness you promise to travel to bring to a perfection. Cannot express the comfort this has given her. Promises that from this day she shall neither be lacking in duty to her father, who has the whole disposition of her heart in his noble hand, nor in humble and obedient service to her Grace. Begs her, "with such acceleration as shall stand with your pleasure," to have in remembrance her desire to attain the King's presence.

Lady Mary is a most obedient child. (Cromwell)

"Promises to continue in obedience according to her promises, both spoken and written, made to the King. I beseech our Lord to preserve your Grace in health with my very natural mother the Queen, and to send you shortly issue; which I shall as gladly and willingly serve with my hands under their feet as ever did poor subject their most gracious sovereign."

First of many references to humility & obedience (and promises of servility and utmost deference to not only her stepmother and father, but their future issue), and the turn of phrase here in Mary’s letter is...interesting. ‘Most natural mother the Queen’, especially. This is particularly odd, because ‘natural mother’ in this time very specifically meant, well... ‘natal mother’, essentially. This term speaks to how she was so fearful of being associated with Catherine of Aragon and all she stood for that she’s effectively erased her from memory, rhetoric, existence.

& I don’t think how painful that must have been for Mary can be overstated, because she clearly did not genuinely feel that-- look what she reverses about that legacy via Parliament once she has the power.

And further:

The King gave her licence some time to send a servant to know of his health and prosperity. Has now sent her old servant Randal Dod with these letters as a token, and begs the King, if she is "over hasty in sending so soon," to pardon her, and believe that she would rather be a chamberer, having the fruition of the King's presence, than an Empress away from him. My sister Elizabeth is well, "and such a child toward, as I doubt not but your Highness shall have cause to rejoice of in time coming.

This speaks to something else, not only the absolute abject humility of the rhetoric (a chamberer in her father’s presence, than an Empress away), that far from Mary being ‘reinstated at court’ as popular tradition suggests, and ‘reconciled with Henry’, after Jane became Queen, Mary really only saw him a few times (a summer visit, and then not until she was recalled to court because of the rebellions, and then for the holidays in December) and remained, for the most part, in a joint household with Elizabeth. The ‘reconciliation’ thus seems nominal at best. The desperation of these letters speak to that, that maybe it was promised otherwise (an invitation to court, frequent correspondence and word from them) and then she was still sidelined & ignored to a certain extent.

"After my most hearty commendations," it is so long since I heard from the King my father that I am bold to send my servant, the bearer, with letters to the King and Queen to know how they do. If I have sent too soon "molesting his Grace with my rude letters," please make my excuse. Till he shall licence me to come to his presence my comfort is to hear often of his health.

Thanks for his daily goodness and fatherly pity. Hopes by faithful obedience to "redubbe" that she has offended.

The King has already shown her more goodness than she deserves, and she desires nothing so much as his presence.

That you have never refused to further my continual suits makes me the bolder in writing to you at this time. The King my father has sent me every quarter of this year 40l., as you best know who were a mean for it. And as this quarter of Christmas must be more chargeable than the rest, especially considering the house I am in, I would desire you to be a suitor to the King to increase the sum. "My lord," I am ashamed to be always a beggar to you, but cannot choose. Houndson

(Worth note that both Jane’s sister and step-daughter ask for Cromwell’s intercession when they need something, not the Queen’s)

Also, "considering the house I am in” (Hundson, with Elizabeth, iirc) seemed to perhaps have the desired effect, because after this is when Mary is invited to court for Christmas.

The visit to Mary the summer of 1536 included a gift of a diamond ring from her stepmother, along with a, perhaps, less nice gift:

“on one side was a relief of Henry and Jane, on the other a picture of Mary. The Latin inscription read: ‘Obedience leads to unity, unity to constancy and a quiet mind, and these are treasures of inestimable worth. For God so valued humility that he gave his only son, a perfect exemplar of modesty, who in his obedience to his divine father, taught lessons of obedience and devotion’ “...

Again, this gift from Henry&Jane that features them, stresses the importance of Mary’s ‘obedience’ not once, but thrice, and it seems she took that to heart and strove to emulate what was being asked of her.

As far as the visits and temporary residence at court of Mary and Elizabeth, the most likely explanation would be that this was due to the rebellion at the time-- the record of the irregularity does not indicate that it was at Jane Seymour’s behest at all:

To soften the temper of the people, he caused his two daughters Mesdames Marie and Isabeau (Elizabeth) to come thither, but the bad opinion conceived by the people of his intentions was so fixed that it seems they think of nothing but liberty)

#tl; dr im a nerd that spends way too much time reading the archives #i didn't really get to much 1537 bcus there's not much information on mary in the archives that year?#that speaks to any of this #off the top of my head i believe she was at court more frequently the next year #but unfortunately i think this speaks more to her presence being used to legitimize henry&jane and the future heir to come #more than any affection on either part #bcus i don't think off memory she is invited back in much other capacity after those holidays except after jane is well-into her pregnancy #which is the same for edward seymour being made member of the privy council #and the same for the marriage of gregory cromwell & elizabeth seymour #from a bird's eye view it rather looks like everyone was hedging their bets until jane came to be with child #anon

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