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bengiyo · 8 months

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The Knowing: Being Queer in BL

I’ve been talking about The Knowing a lot lately with @lurkingshan @waitmyturtles @ginnymoonbeam and @shortpplfedup and so I felt it was time to gather all those thoughts into one place.

I define The Knowing as “growing up and suffering with the knowledge that you are queer (specifically that you are not like other kids) and understanding that you must keep that knowledge to yourself.”

Part of what initially drew me to BL was how often many of these shows took place in what @absolutebl calls “The Bubble” where cultural and structural homophobia is less prevalent or nonexistent. Many of these stories are about guys learning something about themselves for the first time when it comes to being attracted to other men. However, I always find myself drawn to the characters that clearly Knew who they were a long time ago. What’s interesting about these characters is that many of them carry an intense sadness and loneliness that plagues them and their relationships.

I am in my mid-30s. I’ve had to unlearn a lot of language over the decades. When I first realized I was different from other kids I was eight years old. I was a lot like Chiron in Moonlight (2016) asking the question, “What’s a faggot?” I wish I’d had someone like Juan around to say, “A faggot is a word used to make gay people feel bad.” To which Chiron asked, “Am I a faggot?” and Juan quickly corrected. “Nah. You can be gay, but you ain’t gotta let nobody call you no faggot.” I know it’s hard for some of you to read slurs written out so plainly, but I grew up with them being part of the day-to-day language used by kids around me. If you instinctively recoiled at me typing the word four times, imagine experiencing that constantly for your entire adolescence while also fearing the consequences of being discovered by your peers. That’s what I survived. That’s what some of these boys survived.

Before I learned other words, I thought I was weird or broken. I knew I was drawn to boys before I even hit puberty, but I didn’t have language for existing on the ace-spectrum until I joined Tumblr in the early 2010s. Before that I just thought there was something wrong with me. When we see a character in BL who has clearly been gay for a long time, I find myself examining the environment around them to see if they suffered The Knowing.

The worst part of The Knowing is for the boys who can pass as straight if they try hard enough. I always talk about how I think femmes are stronger than those of us (like me) who can pass. They face the public scrutiny of being queer and the danger of that constantly. People like me often go unnoticed unless we’re amongst our peers or explicitly tell people who we are.

I’m writing this post as a love letter to the boys who suffered the Knowing. Sometimes these characters get a bad reputation in fandom for being boring or sad sacks, but they are the characters I love the most. I’d like to talk about some of my favorite boys who Knew. Unsurprisingly, the exact kind of melancholy Japan is willing to play with means they have strong presence on this list.

Korn (Until We Meet Again)

Korn is the character who began my discussion about this in a conversation with @wen-kexing-apologist about Kao’s acting. I pointed out that the saddest thing about Korn in Until We Meet Again is that he knew what he was going to do the entire time. The tragedy of UWMA is that Korn loved Intouch and let him in, and unfortunately learned that Intouch’s love couldn’t fix the horrors that plagued him. You can see it in Kao’s eyes for the entire show whenever we see the In and Korn flashbacks. He suffers under the weight of masculine expectation and crumbles.

The Entire Cast of What Did You Eat Yesterday?

WDYEY is all about characters who Knew. Kenji and Wataru may have been unable to pass and have chosen to accept who they are, but we know Wataru suffered for it because of his feelings about family. Shiro hid who he was for a very long time, and still hides it from most people. His trauma from The Knowing regularly threatens his relationship with Kenji. Kohinata also clearly knew who he was the entire time, and works diligently for the life he’s built for himself. So much of this show is about being gay in a world that does not value us.

Book, Christina, and Yok (Make It Right)

Book is actively victimized because of The Knowing. He left his previous school and doesn’t live with his family because he was outed by a past boyfriend, and is disowned after revenge porn of him is posted.

Both Chrstina and Yok are femme and cannot pass. Unlike many of the boys in this show figuring out who they are, they are trying to survive without losing themselves.

Li Ming (Moonlight Chicken)

Li Ming has a gay uncle and still suffers The Knowing. He is hiding his attraction from everyone until he develops feelings for Heart.

Itou Akira (Life: Love on the Line)

We experienced the entire arc of this man’s life and how much The Knowing crushed him. This is probably the most The Knowing character on the list.

Oumi Mitsuru (Eternal Yesterday)

Oumi has such a frank expression of The Knowing and how much it hurts that he likes Koichi but feels like he can’t express it.

Takahashi Satoru (Koisenu Futari)

The man literally blogs about The Knowing, and it’s how Sakuko began to understand herself. He has a questionnaire prepared to help you figure out how long you’ve Known.

Ren (Tokyo in April Is…)

I wrote multiple posts about Ren and his experience with The Knowing. So much of what goes wrong for them is because Ren couldn’t believe that Kazuma could like him, too, and he knowingly faced the consequences of being discovered to save Kazuma’s life.

Pete (Love by Chance)

Pete knows who he is and can’t change it. Trump uses this against him. Pete doesn’t want Ae to be gay like him and suffer with the realities of being a Known Gay. Pete has one of the first coming out scenes in BL that I really enjoyed.

Cairo (Gameboys)

Cairo was clearly struggling with Knowing, and his close friend took his coming out from him. Cairo is a brat, but goddamn do I appreciate some of his angst.

See-eiw (My Only 12%)

He watched The Love of Siam (2007) and had a complete emotional breakdown as he was finally able to name his feelings for Cake. Top-tier expression of The Knowing.

Shin (3 Will Be Free)

I mean, we don’t have to look much further than his entire sad existence and being pushed into sex with a prostitute in the first episode. Also there’s, “It wasn’t that you didn’t like boys. You just didn’t like me.” Shin is the only boy in BL-adjacent media to suffer a specific version of The Knowing: being rejected and discarded by your own people in a homophobic way so they could stay closeted.

Phupha (A Tale of Thousand Stars)

Phupha’s entire romantic angst is built around The Knowing and what others seeing him for who he is will do for him.

Pran (Bad Buddy)

Though Bad Buddy exists in The Bubble, Pran has one of the most painful versions of The Knowing I’ve ever experienced because his is wrapped up in family angst and an unrequited crush.

Lee Wan (Our Dating Sim)

Lee Wan suffered The Knowing and broke things with his best friend after confessing. The Knowing destroyed his ability to see a version of his life where he and Shin Kitae overcame the upcoming challenges together and so he takes that choice from Kitae. Crushing.

Ueda Minoru (Our Dining Table)

Minoru is so familiar with The Knowing that he preemptively breaks up with Yutaka after kissing him.

Kiyoi (My Beautiful Man)

The reveal that Kiyoi already knew who he was and noticed Hira the entire time? Beautiful. One of the best reveals in J-BL history.

Minato (Minato’s Laundromat)

This man is one of the sadder examples of The Knowing because he’s in a place where he understands who he is now, but the internalized homophobia cripples almost all of his romantic and closer relationships.

Han Baram (Sing My Crush)

This boy is suffering so much from The Knowing that his love confession song is literally titled “Letter of Apology.”

Oh-aew (I Told Sunset About You)

He Knew. “Are you proud of me?”

Noh Shinwoo and Shin Daon (Light On Me)

Noh Shinwoo clearly suffered The Knowing and was discovered. His bullies still plague him on the streets when they see him. Shin Daon was not surprised by his attraction to Woo Taekyung; he struggled with his parents expectations.

Nagisa (His: I Didn’t Mean to Fall in Love)

Nagisa definitely Knew who he was and was probably going to stay quiet about it until Shun showed up in his life. What upsets me so much about Nagisa is that he is the one who leaves Shun later in the movie after pulling queerness out of Shun.

The Secret Crush on You Quartet

All four of them get a spot on this list for The Knowing. Toh, Kaojao, and Daisy clearly suffered The Knowing, and Som has clearly taken care of them for a long time.

Rocky and Judah (Quaranthings)

I love that these two explore The Knowing from a class perspective. Judah is wealthier and eventually comes out, but Rocky is poor and struggles with it a lot longer.

Han Tae Joo and Kang Gook (Where Your Eyes Linger)

The Knowing, bodyguard edition. The yearning between the two of these is palpable. It hurts that they can’t even talk to each other about it.

Mafuyu (Given)

He Knew and lost his boyfriend to The Knowing.

Kim Dong Hee (Unintentional Love Story)

He won’t acknowledge Go Ho Tae’s feelings because he feels a sense of loyalty to Ho Tae’s mom for taking care of him after his parents disowned him over the gay thing. Huge case of The Knowing.

Edit: New Additions October 7, 2023.

Nekoyashiki Mamoru (Kabe-Koji Nekoyashiki-kun Desires to be Recognized)

He describes a textbook case of the Knowing and finding community at the convention.

Zo (Hidden Agenda)

He definitely Knew, and got messed over by his friends badly for it.

Yuuki (Me, My Husband, and My Husband's Boyfriend)

We almost lost Yuuki to the Knowing.

All of the Eclipse Gays

Literally all of them. The entire show is about how fascism turns queer people into agents working against their own community.

Joe (The Warp Effect)

He clearly Knew before his encounter with Army, and he also suffered for being outed.

#Ben writes #The Knowing #too many shows to tag #what did you eat yesterday?#until we meet again #bl series #thai bl #japanese bl #korean bl #filipino bl

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lurkingshan · 4 months

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Random BL Grievances, 2023 Edition

Listen. I was going to be nice. I was going to listen to my better angels. Shan, I said, there is no need to hate, it's all love! Just let it all go! But then my Tay Tawan was cruelly ripped away from me and @my-rose-tinted-glasses gave me inspiration. So fuck it, we ball. Hateration turned up to 11, let's go.

Worst Waste of a Good Start: Jun & Jun

Remember when this show started and it was all about scent kink and extremely horny energy, and then suddenly that all evaporated so we could add a bunch of side plots and do four different love triangles instead? Yeah I'm still mad about it!!

Most Overused Metaphor: Dangerous Romance

Hey y'all, did you know windmills need wind to power them?

Rudest Boy: Lomfon, La Pluie

The audacity of this boy. The chaos he sewed. Look at this scene! Immediately after this he not only plotted a secret date with his situationship's brother, he kissed said brother without consent. He made Tien cry. I may have forgiven your lanky ass, but I sure didn't forget!

Worst Retcon: Naughty Babe

This is not Men in Black and you can't just mind wipe me into forgetting these two already worked through half these issues in Cutie Pie. Not to mention suddenly turning a dog into a CGI tiger!! Thanks to Nat and Max for their service though those sex scenes at the end did help me cope.

Biggest Audience Betrayal: Minato's Laundromat 2

Plot contrivance amnesia! In my painstaking slow burn self acceptance journey that I have spent two entire seasons on. I will never forgive them.

Most Egregious Lack of Threesomes: Only Friends

You put me through all that messy drama and all those teases and I did not get to watch even one (1) threesome? Just a couple of kisses and everybody vacates the pool. I ask you, what was the point of Boeing if he wasn't here to fuck everybody! For shame, Jojo.

Most Undeserved Forgiveness: Eun Ji and Tae Hyung, The Eighth Sense

These two assholes are really up there amongst the worst friends in drama this year. I don't care what Jae Won says, I do not forgive you. Ji Hyun should have kept that petty energy for the both of them.

Biggest Character Letdown: Sand, Only Friends

Eternally pouring one out for the rougher, more cynical version of Sand who was wielding a baseball bat in the trailer. I don't know what happened to you, my guy, but you live on in my heart.

Most Baffling Dropped Plot: Thyme, A Boss and a Babe

Why was Drake even in this show? What was the point of all that plot set up in the first half if they weren't going to resolve it?? Why wasn't Thyme the mole??? Make it make sense.

Most Obvious Lack of Purpose: Between Us

How on earth did this happen? You have literal years to write a compelling sequel story for a wildly popular side ship and this is all you can come up with?! Aside from a couple nice sexy scenes at the start, this show really had no idea what it was about and nothing interesting to say.

Biggest Waste of Everyone's Time: Absolute Zero

New Siwaj, you're getting the triple dose on this list!! And AZ is your biggest sin this year because what the fuck was this! You had all that money, all that talent, all that time at your disposal, and this is what you did with it. UWMA squad was lined up to see you finally do another masterpiece, and you delivered this mess instead. What is going on with you, sir, I feel it's time for an intervention.

Worst Derailing of a Good Show: Step by Step

You didn't think this post was ending without me mentioning this disaster, did you? An all-time cautionary tale in how to waste a good slow burn. Jeng deserved better and so did we.

#bl grievances 2023 #la pluie #only friends the series #step by step #the eight sense #jun & jun #dangerous romance #a boss and a babe #absolute zero #minato's laundromat 2 #naughty babe the series #shan shouts into the void

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thebroccolination · 1 year

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hey key!

I wanted to ask; do you have any winteam fic recs on AO3?

If yes, could you please suggest?? Thank you! Just asking for myself to read. And for others too!

I do! Okay, lemme try to assemble an eclectic mix and hopefully introduce a variety of writers and older fics that new fans might not have seen yet. I’m not caught up on all the newest fics (a lovely state of being to be in after two and a half years of refreshing the WinTeam tag every five minutes and finding one or maaaybe two a week). But you’re free to browse my bookmarks on AO3 for all my favorites.

bruises fade by @oopsimafannow

He can't even make his tongue form the shape for yes, but it's all he wants to say (it's all he wants to say out loud). Team is sucking a bruise on the inside of Win's thigh – he has, at some point, lifted Win's leg over his shoulder to give him access, tilting Win further into the cold metal with edges that bite into his shoulder blades.

The writing in this is some of the best and most visceral smut I've read in this or any fandom. I love when sex is written in a kind of matter-of-fact way that gives readers an idea of the sensations the characters are feeling. I'd read anything pinkish wrote, and I have two of their fics open in tabs. (One is for BounPrem's Cutie Pie characters WinTop, so I'm thrilled that exists.)

Course Correction by @nejineeee

“Did someone say you suck at kissing?” Win asked. He gripped Team’s hips in both hands. “Who have you been kissing, Team?” He sounded like he might start chewing rocks if Team didn’t answer immediately. “No one, no one, calm down,” Team said with a laugh. “I was just curious.”

I read most of this on a train in Japan and experienced a state of pure bliss the entire time. The characterization is spot-on, but so is the pacing and the comedic timing and phrasing. This is my favorite WinTeam fic at the moment, and I highly, highly recommend it. <3

Always Choose the Same by blackrose9212

“Win, do you want to talk about Tea—” Dean gets cut off as Manow sprints over to their table, throwing herself down into the seat across from them. She’s even more made up than usual today, no doubt seeing Pruk later. “P’Win!” she yells. Win raises his eyebrows, gives her the best look he can to say that he’s less than three feet away from her. “Oh. Sorry.” She giggles. “I need you to come with me. Right now.”

This writer was one of the first around in early UWMA fandom, and I fell in love with all their fics. The clever, snarky way they write Win and Team's narrative POVs always makes me smile, and the build-up to emotion is lovely. If they write more, I'll dive on it in a second.

The Gift Is Your Voice by Ume_otyaduke0525

“Ah…o-one more time.” He felt Win’s hand tense. His face drew closer, his hot breath glazing Team’s lips. “Team.” The second time was sweet and enraptured.

This writer is an extremely prolific Japanese WinTeam fic writer, and I loved her work in Japanese so much that I offered to translate this one into English. The premise is really cute, with Team dreaming about a younger Win who calls him "phi", and I hope I did the translation justice. If you read Japanese or want to practice, they have some of their other work up on AO3 as well.

maybe time will keep this place by sweetadeline

When [Team] wakes up in the morning his mother is at the door, rubbing at her neck. Win is still snuggled into Team's shoulder, so he untangles himself as softly as he can, praying he doesn't wake. He oddly feels like he's been caught, the way his mother looks at him as she stays by the door.

Note: This fic was written before we knew anything specific about Team's parents.

This fic has a fascinating premise: Team has to attend his father's funeral, and Win goes with him. It's written so beautifully and delicately, I just fell so thoroughly in love with it when I read it the first time. It's one of my all-time favorites. It's just so atmospheric and lovely.

like someone who knows everything about you by @mendacity17

“Just so we're clear, I'm not cuddling with you at night," Win declares before Dean has finished setting his suitcase on the floor. Dean looks up at him, completely unfazed. “Okay.” It’s… Dean. Win didn’t realize just how much he's missed him, and he feels a wave of homesickness that leaves a scratch at the back of his throat.

This one is set while Win is studying abroad in London. Dean comes to visit him. Pollitt's love for writing Win and Dean's friendship really shines here, and they truly capture that playful snarkiness while never losing that distinctive and undeniable fondness they have for each other. (The end is incredible and made me tear up.)

New York State of Mind by iamtheenemy

“Oh, Team,” Pharm said, interrupting his frenzied thoughts and shattering any hope Team had that it was all a misunderstanding. “This is P’Win, P’Dean’s best friend, the one who was interning for his family’s company in England. P’Win, this is my friend, Team.” Team, Win mouthed at him, his eyes dancing with delight. Team barely held back a groan.

I was obsessed with this fic as it was posting; I could hardly wait for each chapter. This is a marvelous AU in which Win was studying abroad in England the whole time, and the first time he meets Team is on a plane to New York for DeanPharm's wedding. It's exactly what you'd expect and so much more.

Wrapped Up by @faandomcentral

“We can do better than that,” Team prompts, both hands now gripping Win’s hips, pulling him back in time with his movements. “A little louder, hia.” “Fuck!” Win spits when Team reaches and wraps his fingers around Win’s aching erection.

TEAMWIN. TOP TEAM. And hot Top Team. Bratty Top Team. Blair's another writer who absolutely nails what works about good smut. And the premise alone, while simple, just sets you up for a memorable experience.

your quietest feeling by @sollucets

Team moves his hand again to settle over Win’s, and when he thinks he can control his voice, he murmurs, “Did you have a nightmare?” Win’s expression looks pained, and he hesitates over it, but he does admit it. “Yeah,” he mumbles, clearing his throat after the word comes out scraping. “I did.”

For years, I wanted to know more about Win's vulnerabilities as a character. We didn't really get to see many of them in the existing parts of the novel or in UWMA, so fics like this that explore Win's trauma, Win's potential vulnerability to nightmares, it's a gift. And this fic captures the Win we know so well while adding onto his character in such an achingly real way. Utterly beautiful.

Dominoes by dragons_and_angels

"Team," Win said, making sure his lips brushed against Team's skin as he said the word. Team shivered and Win wondered if he could ever stop smiling. "Want to wake up yet?" "No." Team shook his head and then turned Win's head so he could kiss him. "Waking up is bad," Team murmured against Win's lips.

This is pure, soft domestic bliss. Win helps Team out with a chaotic morning, and it's just everything I love about them as characters condensed in a quick look into their day. It's absolutely charming the way only WinTeam can be.

+BONUS

Prelude by @nejineeee

“You’re in pre-heat then,” P’Tul said, leaning forward. His nostrils flared as he inhaled deeply. It wasn’t rude per se, but it wasn’t the soberest thing to do. Win’s grip on Team’s hip tightened. “Tul,” Win growled. P’Tul stood upright, settling back into his sandals. “I’m not going into heat,” Team said again.

For me, omegaverse is usually just fun smut that I read occasionally, but in order to be taken seriously, the story has to go above and beyond in some very specific ways. I'm not a fan of omegaverse worldbuilding that leans on secondary genders as a substitute for the struggle of gender roles within heteronormative culture. This fic's worldbuilding is so fascinating. There are so many tiny nuances and details mentioned in passing that make the world feel authentic. Also, Win and Team are both just…………so stupid and so in love they miss obvious details in a way that's delightful instead of frustrating. Even if you're not the biggest fan of omegaverse usually, I recommend this as an exception to prove how good it can be when it's in the right hands.

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There are more in my AO3 bookmarks!

I'll also come back and edit this if I find tumblr urls for the writers above!

#kiranokira answers #winteam fic #winteam fic recs #kiranokira recs #winteam #teamwin #win x team #team x win #between us the series #between us #until we meet again #uwma fic #uwma

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theworldinclines · 1 year

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i say this with my whole heart, i love us broccoli nation, but anyone thinking that win is out of character based off episode 1 has inherently misunderstood his character. we saw nothing of him in uwma, nothing, and i say that bc he was nowhere near being a Main Character with crumbs every other episode. and that's ok, bc the story wasn't about him, so everything we see is surface level. he jokes, he flirts, he's not very serious - but that doesn't mean he is never serious, we just never had reason to get into that detail bc it was dean and pharm's story, not win's. we are finally seeing what win is up to while dean and pharm are in their little world, and it isn't just him being a fun loving goofy side character. it's who's he's always been, when we're shown his perspective, when we focus on his being. win isn't going to view himself as the person pharm (who has no context, just like us!) sees draping himself all over team at lunch, knowing so little that he has to ask dean if player win is a good guy for team to associate with. win is a middle child who has had to basically act as parent and mediator to his brothers, hes fiercely loyal, and is someone used to adapting to the needs of whoever he's with. that's who he's always been. he can be funny and joke with team after they've know each other a while, as we saw in uwma, but we are quite literally at the beginning here. speaking as someone who has loved and analysed win's character for years, to say they've rewritten win to be a hard-ass is just untrue. he can be more than one thing, he has layers, he has depth. he's a well written character. i know we might not be super used to that with a lot of these series lol but we won this time. so be open to getting to know him!! boun for years has put his entire heart into crafting win into a realistic, lovely person and it shows and im so happy to see win portrayed so wonderfully :))

#it just makes me like sad ?? to see people saying these things as tho the writers dont understand win's character #and i know we are so used to writers completely fucking us over w one character assassination after another but this isnt that #hes like this in the novel and then some #its like how we saw team rushing to take care of pharm after the grocery store w dean #we never saw that in uwma we didnt get to see team comforting pharm there #but now we see it and get to see a side of team that we didnt have before and its the greatest ever #this is the same thing #buts #between us #between us the series #my writing #win #buts spoilers

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waitmyturtles · 9 months

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HERE WE GO: Thai QL Favorites Tag Game! Thanks to @telomeke, @lurkingshan, and @kattahj for the tags!

Favorite Thai QL: Bad Buddy, with a close second going to Until We Meet Again. My valuation here is -- what show do I think about the MOST on a daily basis? In every other show I watch, I’m thinking of Bad Buddy, and how BBS did x, y, and z differently. Still to me one of the most brilliant overall dramas I’ve ever watched, so mind-blowingly layered, and to me, BBS serves as a love letter and an honoring to the traumas that Asian children face as their parents grow, painfully, out of their own traumas.

Favorite Pairing: I’m going to assume pairings refers to the fictional ships, so: PatPran, obviously, with DeanPharm, BunTan, TeeFuse, and FrameBook in close running! Honorable mention to ThunMed, but Med is a ghost, sooooo, yeah, is object permanence a requirement in ships?!

Most underrated actor: I’m adding to @telomeke and @pandasmagorica‘s pitch for Gawin Caskey. I know I have yet to see him in Not Me, but he was fabulous in Dark Blue Kiss.... and he is TEARING IT UP in Be My Favorite. There is not one hiccup with this man’s acting. He and Krist are CARRYING BMF to fabulous results. Honorable mention to my fave, Nammon Krittanai, who held down in SOTUS S and ATOTS, and he’s gonna be in The Rebound with Frank Thanatsaran, so we’ll see how that goes!

Favorite Character: Haaaaaa. OMG. I have so many. Honestly... for this very moment, I’d have to say Pharm from UWMA. I know his blushing maiden approach turned off a lot of folks, but Pharm just gave us EVERYTHING by way of demonstrating ALL of his emotions at his entire situation in holding Intouch’s spirit within him and negotiating his future with Dean. Pharm may have been a blushing maiden, but he also held his own, stood up for himself with the temporary break, and found his true love on his own, independently, in the end. I absolutely loved Pharm’s trajectory.

Favorite Side Character: Oh no, also too many to list! I love that @telomeke mentioned Yihwa from Together With Me, but for me, I think tied for my tops in this category, would be Thun’s mom in He’s Coming To Me, and Pete’s dad in Dark Blue Kiss. The very, very best BL parents.

Favorite scene in a QL: Thun’s coming out scene on the rooftop in He’s Coming To Me/episode 5. I float when I think of Ohm Pawat’s acting in that moment.

Favorite line in a QL: This is a good one. For pure sessyness, I like what Ae says to Pete in the thin-walled dorm room in Love By Chance, and what Sarawat says to Tine at the end of Still 2gether.

But I think I like what Dean says to Pharm in... I think it’s episode 6 in UWMA. “Who taught you to say something like this?” Gives me the shivers.

Most Anticipated QL (& why): Only Friends, of course, with 23.5 and Dangerous Romance in close seconds. (If this were NOT a Thai list, I would say the second season of What Did You Eat Yesterday?, because I’m planning to LOSE MY MIND OVER THAT, lol.)

Healthiest relationship in a QL: Are we talking romantic relationships?! Because Thun and Thun’s mom in HCTM, and Pete and Pete’s dad in DBK definitely count, ha. As far as couplings go? I might actually argue for Uea and King in Bed Friend! They went through SO MUCH to get to where they were at the end of that show. SO MUCH. And King just LED in such a positive and healthy way, listening to every one of Uea’s needs and responding to them. They are a fabulous couple. I’ll give them their flowers for ending in such a healthy and open place!

Most toxic relationship in a QL: TharnType, and that’s all I’ll say about that.

Guilty pleasure series: Ooooooh. I don’t think I can answer this, because I don’t think I’ve watched enough Thai QLs out of the context of the Old GMMTV Challenge to have watched a series PURELY for pulpy goodness. I think I need more familiarity with the genre by way of quantity to fully answer this!

Most underrated series: I agree with @telomeke. HE’S COMING TO ME. A show that was WAY before its time, and did not get its flowers, publicly, by GMMTV or the 2019 fandoms. The writing and acting on this show was SPECTACULAR. I will beat this drum forever: anyone who calls themselves a QL fan MUST watch this show for the standards it set in acting, in writing, and in message delivery. Utterly stunning.

Gonna tag some of the usual suspects of the OGMMTVC in here, as well as new friends I’ve made through Be My Favorite! @absolutebl, @solitaryandwandering, @nieves-de-sugui, @clairificusrex, @manogirl, @telomeke, @so-much-yet-to-learn, @twig-tea, @crowie, @chickenstrangers, @grapejuicegay, @dribs-and-drabbles, @miscellar, @aliceisathome, @rocketturtle4, and anyone else, feel free to jump in!

#tag game!#thai ql favorites tag game #bad buddy #until we meet again #he's coming to me #dark blue kiss #make it right #manner of death #be my favorite #bed friend #gawin caskey #nammon krittanai

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aliceisathome · 9 months

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I was tagged by @waitmyturtles so here's my Thai QL Favorites Tag Game answers! Brief because arghh, not able to spend lots of time on anything bloody fun at the moment.

Favorite Thai BL: I love so many but it just has to be Until We Meet Again. For all its flaws (Pharm's blushing maiden, New's pedestrian direction etc) it's a masterpiece of storytelling and a perfect cast. And it still makes me ugly cry when I rewatch it. Bad Buddy comes a close second though

Current Obsession: I'm too swamped to have a current obsession. I'm so behind I haven't even watched The Eight Sense yet. I had to pause Be My Favourite after ep 2. I can't start anything new so currently only rewatch favourite bits of already consumed media. Sob.

Favorite Pairing: I'm wavering between PatPran and DeanPharm. And AePete...

Most Underrated Actor: There are a couple of actors that I'd just like to see in more things because whenever they appear they elevate the whole drama. Tonnam Piamchon is a proper scene stealer and I'd love to see him lead something out. I'm surprised there hasn't been a proper lead for First (not that one) Piyankul as well.

Favorite Character: Pat. He may be an eejit but once he realises how he feels he's all in, forever. I love that man.

Favorite Side Character: Can I have Toh's entire friendship group from Secret Crush On You? I love all of them.

Favorite Scene in a BL: I won't pick one and you can't make me. Some I love because they're fabulous, some because they are so bad they're good, others make my heart clench. A few of my many highlights include; In and Korn so happy on the beach in UWMA, the rooftop kiss in BB, Daisy and In's noodle flirtation in SCOY, White and Sean at Pride in Not Me, the airport scene in ATOTS, and as a gloriously over-the-top bit of pulpy goodness, Kim descending the stairs in his best Alexis Carrington imitation to confront Cherry in Unforgotten Night. Then there's this one:

Favorite Line in a BL: "In this world, you can be afraid of anything. I will always be beside you, but you cannot be afraid of me" Win to Team in UWMA

Most Anticipated BL (& Why): เขมจิราต้องรอด Cherry Magic with TayNew OF COURSE. I think we all know why. Middleman's Love because TutorYim - aww. And Only Friends because Jojo's got free rein and a fabulous cast.

Healthiest relationship in a BL: PatPran, Li Ming and Heart, despite their youth. and ultimately DeanPharm.

Most Toxic Relationship in a BL: Lots of people are going to have TharnType in this spot. I suspect these people have forgotten Dr Bright and Farm from Together With Me, or Techno and Kengkla from LBC and LBC2. Tharn and Type are pure as the driven snow in comparison.

Guilty Pleasure Series: Love Mechanics - look I just love my spiky boy Mark and my hopeless boy Vee and their messy, messy relationship.

I won't tag anyone - do it if you fancy!

#thai bl #Thai QL Favorites Tag Game #UWMA #Until We Meet Again #Bad Buddy #Love Mechanics #Unforgotten Night #SCOY #Secret Crush on You #Love By Chance #Together With Me #Tharntype

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mineonmain · 9 months

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Thai QL Favorites Tag Game

Tagged by @telomeke ^u^ slay

Credit: this game was created by @thatgirl4815 as Thai BL Favorites Tag Game.

Favorite Thai QL: Bad Buddy was my first and probably till date my fav. What a way to start. Very few BLs overall have lived up to the unreal standard that this show set, and no matter what all has happened IRL since the airing of the show, this show has a place in my heart that nothing is going to ever replace. It's the show that revived my love and passion for TV shows after years. This show (ep 5 4/4 👀) changed my brain chemistry, without exaggeration. P'Aof i'm chewing on your furniture until you pay for my therapy. [Other favs are MLC, ATOTS, UWMA, Between Us, MSP]

Favorite Pairing: I guess i'll talk about actor pairings but onscreen, not how they are offscreen. EarthMix is absolutely one of my favs, they bring a maturity, natural-ness, and intensity to their acting that I've rarely found in other GMMTV pairings. I'm also gonna mention FourthGem because they're the GMM young blood and I think they've got an incredible amount of potential. We've already seen their range in MLC and MSP, and I think they're going to be huge. I have a huge soft spot for BounPrem (but I may be biased lol), and this may be a lukewarm take but I really enjoyed BillySeng, I thought they had some incredible onscreen chemistry.

Most underrated actor: Oh jeez where do I start. Gotta mention Fourth - he's not really underrated but he's just starting out, but I can already see he's got the chops and with the right training and right directors he's absolutely Going Placed. Shout out to Fluke Natouch, that boy does emotional scenes like no one else. Special shoutout to Tonnam - he's supposed to be starring in his first BL as a main character this year, idk if that's still on schedule or not, but every character he's ever played so far has been a hit in my book. His comedic timing is unparalleled for me, it never fails to hit.

Favorite Character: How do I choose!! Pat Napat is so dear to me??? As is Ae from LBC???? Tutor from Why R U???? Team from Between Us?? I've got so many different little blorbos it's impossible to choose. They're all pocket sized to me. Making me choose is a crime.

Favorite Side Character: Idk why but the first one that comes to mind is View from Between Us. He's absolutely Little Bro, but he's also so sweet and genuine and full of love??? He's annoying bc all little brothers are genetically coded to be annoying but he's impossible not to love. His smile is healing. You can't take him away from me.

Favorite scene in a QL: Bad Buddy Ep 5 4/4. This was the scene that actually broke me. The lead up to the scene, the subtle but deliberate choices that both the characters made. Pat gritting himself to go talk to Pran bc if there's one thing he doesn't do it's avoid people and situations. Pran resigning himself to the conversation bc he can't avoid it any longer. Pat finally saying exactly how he's been feeling less than a business day after he had the realisation himself, bc the moment he feels something and decides it he has to act on it. The music swelling in the background. Pran realising that he's been projecting his fears onto Pat this entire time, that Pat has always feel differently about him too. Pran asking the question to break it all, wording in one way where he was expecting one kind of answer, not expecting that it would be interpreted in an entirely different way and would rock the foundation of their already teetering relationship. Pran asking if they want to be friends, because the alternative would be to be enemies. Pat hearing 'do you want to be only friends', and realising that that would never be enough for the both of them. Pat seeing that Pran is scared, and realising that he has to have courage enough for the both of them. Pat taking the deepest and shakiest breath of his life, swallowing down his fear and trepidation, voice trembling saying 'no'. This is the scariest thing that Pat has ever had to do, but how he'd rather do this than lose Pran again. Them both taking a step towards each other, because this is a decision not of one but of equals, mutual as they have always been. Pat treating this like his first kiss, like a relief of finally knowing the answer to a question that has long plagued him, like the start of something, going into it with utter joy and coming out of it with complete bliss, because the world finally makes sense. Pran treating this like his last kiss, like the end of everything they had ever been or ever could be, like he was going to milk this for everything it was worth because he was never going to get a chance to do this ever again, going into it with fear and desperation, and coming out of it with heartache and resignation, because they had lost everything they had and couldn't get it back. Pat crying tears of joy because he finally found what he was looking for, and Pran crying tears of pain because he got to experience for the first and last time what he would never be allowed to have but had longed for all of his life. Yeah I'm so normal about this show.

Favorite line in a QL: I mean. I literally said it all above, but yeah. 'If we're not enemies, could we be friends?' 'Do you want to be friends?' 'No.'

Most Anticipated QL (& why): I don't honestly know?? But I do wanna see the Thai remake of Cherry Magic, I'm interested in seeing how they're gonna treat it differently from the source show, esp since Thai shows have a tendency to bit more high heat and the original show was all about the tenderness of falling for someone because of their goodness.

Healthiest relationship in a QL: oooh i gotta go for TinnGun from MSP, they're just so lovable. Yes it's a highschool relationship but it was presented so sweetly without coming across as childish, and my boy Tinn is the ultimate green flag. Also even tho I'm not personally a SaifahZon fan (they're not my cup of tea) I think they're incredibly healthy.

Most toxic relationship in a QL: TharnType (i'm mostly looking at you Tharn), most of the KP pairings (the T in Theerapanyakuls stands for needs Therapy), early RainPhayu (i'm sorry but pigtail-pulling on the playground to show you like someone is very kindergarten behavior Phayu), LianKuea (go ahead girlbosses who gaslight and gatekeep).

Guilty pleasure series: I honestly don't know if anything I like counts as a guilty pleasure. Maybe SCOY?? Because I know there's a lot of people who don't like it and find it cringe but I think they're all kind of missing the point. I could write a mini-essay about this show too but i'll save that for another day.

Most underrated series: Ingredients (Baby Jeff!!), My Only 12% (It absolutely deserved more love and hype).

Tagging: @antisocial-burrito @liyazaki @webetterlove @bisexualhedgehog @shortpplfedup @whatisgodtoanonbeliever @onstoryladders @respectthepetty @heesulovebot @gunsatthaphan @incandescentflower @rythyme @elevatormusic @vegaspetesupremicy

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visualtaehyun · 7 months

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BL/QL Ask game : The Ugly, the Bad and the Worst

Thank you for tagging me @twig-tea 🙏 I read your post and the questions while going Ohhh interesting but when I actually tried to answer them myself, I realized that I'm usually pretty positive about the shows I watch or else I just move on from them. Most of the time, I don't fault characters or a whole show for being bad anyway, it's more the writing/script, directing choices, or editing that I tend to have gripes with.

So! Of the entire 22 original questions (by @clara-maybe-ontheroad), I'll only be answering a handful. This will also only be about Thai BLs because they make up the vast majority of QLs I've seen.

1 Worst soundtrack / weirdest song choice in a BL

My knee-jerk reaction was "Never Let Me Go country song NC" lmao but then I went to rewatch said scene and it barely stood out to me. So after re-thinking I'll have to nominate two shows: Dangerous Romance and Until We Meet Again, for basically the same reason.

Chimon's OST สายลม (Wind), which I actually fell in love with when it dropped because Chimon's voice was such a pleasant surprise, is being entirely overused in DR, to the point that I'm starting to tire of a song that I actually like. Honorable mention: The completely random and unnecessary stage performance of Perth and Chimon's ซบกันไปนานๆ (Sunset) in ep. 5. Was it not enough to have them sing and vibe to it in the car earlier in the same episode??

Similarly, UWMA's OST is either entirely by one guy or entirely one song but it sure was grating on me, my patience and my enjoyment of the show. P'New series are already hit or miss for me but that singer/song/OST had me so fed up.

5 Worst plot line

The first show I ever dropped was Star In My Mind which is ridiculous considering how short it is. But the entire premise of Kluen being unable to open his goddamn mouth frustrated me to no end. I did pick it back up again at a later point though, so I could watch Sky In Your Heart and indulge in the JoongDunk cuteness from there on out.

7 A show people love but you find bad

I'm sorry to say but- it's Vice Versa. It was one of the first Thai QLs I watched along with as it aired but ultimately I gotta say Oof. It has a fun premise, the cinematography is super nice, and it's genuinely sweet. But the amount of product placements was staggering! I also just didn't vibe with JimmySea's chemistry, they just gave too much Friend energy for me to find them believable as a couple. They're not the only ones or the only series where I didn't really find the spark but that's not a Them problem. That's a me 'Needing my fictional couples to be head over heels for each other for my acespec ass to see/experience the attraction and connection' problem lol

8 A show people find bad but you will defend

Cutie Pie! And I will die on this hill, @twig-tea 😂 It has everything I love: good production quality, good acting, tangible chemistry between the couples (see last question lol), complicated emotions, push-and-pull between the romantic leads, a dedicated cast and crew, a great OST, I'm certain I'm forgetting a lot of stuff but there's just so much I love about this show.

At its core, it's about two people who turned themselves into the versions they think they should be for each other, based on their upbringing, expectations placed upon them, status differences etc. and how they learn to be honest with themselves and each other.

I've re-watched this show a number of times, each with different levels of Thai proficiency, which made me consider that this show might've been such a hit in Thailand but not as much internationally because there's maybe a language and trope/culture barrier here? On my first-time watch, I knew no Thai and was largely unfamiliar with what tropes are common in Thai romances and such. At the time, the show didn't hit me very much, I struggled to make sense of that pivotal fight in episode 1, I enjoyed the singing, it was mostly just a nice romance. On my most recent re-watch a few months back, I had reached the point where I could follow a spoken conversation in Thai as long as there were translated subs to guide me along. And suddenly the full weight of episode 1 but especially the fight at the end, setting up the central conflict, hit me and I realized: Oh wow! This is good writing! Introduce your characters, their backgrounds, their goals, and the show's core conflict and that's how you hook viewers.

This has already gotten long enough but I wanna mention how much it means to me to have this show not just call for marriage equality repeatedly but also to have them shout it out to the world by having their mlm couple fully make out in what is arguably one of the busiest corners of Bangkok - Siam Square! More specifically it is the area with the fountains between Siam Paragon on one side and Siam Center on the other, and the skywalk (that connects the various malls in the area) as well as the central BTS station Siam both overlooking that space. It's also called Parc Paragon, there's frequently events there, and it is busy as all hell!! And they not only cleared it for filming a lengthy queer kiss scene but, in the show, the huge LED/ad screens are used to project pride colors, a call for equal rights, and a queer marriage proposal in plain view of the entire square!

If you've never been to Bangkok, I beg you to look up photos, via Google Street View or the IG location tag for Parc Paragon so you get an idea of what I'm talking about. 🙏 (this isn't the only busy prominent location they used btw but djdjhdjsdj let's not write a whole damn essay here)

10 A bad show that you kept watching because you were intrigued/fascinated

Dinosaur Love - I watched the first episode, excited for Tonnam and Pepper, and found it charming with its low budget, pink-filtered tropey-ness. Except I quickly realized that this show was Actually Bad. The framing and blocking were often a big question mark to me. The pink filter and the background music got annoying quickly. The acting was subpar. At some point in episode 2 I started questioning if they ever even did more than one take per scene. There was a panning shot involving a mirror where the crew is just fully visible in the reflection?? Suffice it to say that I dropped this show like a hot potato when episode 3 very suddenly and very graphically had a side character self-harm. Squicked me out like nothing before, moving on!

11 A bad show that you kept watching because you were horny

I mentioned this already but I'm on the aro/ace-spectrum (...somewhere, don't ask me specifics lol) so I don't really watch shows for horny or eyecandy reasons. If I don't vibe with the characters or dynamics then I won't even perceive them as sexy, to be honest.

12 A bad show that you kept watching because of that one character

Why R U (the og Thai one), I guess? Everyone who's seen it probably knows that the production and filming suffered because of Covid so I wouldn't hesitate to call this show bad on that basis. I set out to watch it because I wanted to see more of Zee Pruk's acting, in another role, after having seen Cutie Pie. And Fighter ended up being most of the reason I stuck around till the end. The nuanced struggle with his own sexuality was so well-portrayed. Tutor is a very memorable character as well! And I'm entirely 🥰 about Hwa, she just perfectly fits this character archetype that I will always, without fail, completely adore.

21 The show that disappointed you the most

Most of the time, I either don't have big expectations or I let go of them quickly enough once I get a vibe for where a given show is going. The closest thing to 'disappointment' would then probably be all the shows that I kept seeing being recommended and hyped but that didn't leave a lasting impression on me after watching, like KinnPorsche, Love Mechanics, Manner of Death. None of these are bad OR disappointing and there's things I genuinely enjoyed and liked in them but ultimately I just didn't Get why they're so popular. I'm sure part of it is to do with me not having been around to follow along on a week-to-week basis but watching them long after they were done airing, basically in a vacuum. But alas!

I don't know how you managed to do all 22 questions, Twig Tea, when this fraction has already taken me like five hours 💀 Passing this time-eating curse on then to @airenyah @cangse-sanren/@zeesqueere @sadwetcatray @sorry-bonebag @telomeke @thegalwhorants @pharawee I'm sure this tag is making the rounds so some (if not all) of y'all have probably done this already. If anyone I didn't tag reads this and wants to play, feel free to tag me in it, I do enjoy reading hot takes and impassioned essays lol

#tag game #thai bl #bella and the blorbos #ql musings #don't judge me for my silly housekeeping tags lol #worst bl shows the ask game

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hallowpen · 7 months

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I finally watched Between Us...

Before I give my opinion, I do want to say that before watching I had binged UWMA for the umpteenth time, so that series was very fresh in my mind. I was also watching it with two of my mutuals: one who was a fan of Between Us and the other who didn't particularly enjoy it but was also a huge UWMA fan like me.

If I were to just take it as it is at face value, then I have to say it's not as bad as some people claim it to be. However, I am coming into the series as an UWMA/WinTeam fan so because of that I have several problems with the end product.

1) Continuity went out the window on several occasions. Again, this might not be as important to some people, but my UWMA brain just could not shut off.

2) BeePrince were completely unnecessary to the story especially with Prince having absolutely NO connection to either main character.

3) New's editing is sooo bizarre. There are so many flashbacks of the same scenes, in their entirety, sometimes right after these scenes just occurred. I know it wasn't his intention but it sort of devalues the intelligence of the audience and the acting ability of his actors. Like trust in your actors to convey the proper emotions needed to push a scene forward rather than having to playback why it is they are feeling what they are feeling. We get it! We don't need to see it pushed in our faces over and over again. Boun and Prem are more than capable, and if you need to recall a specific moment a short little flashback or voiceover will do…you don't need to play the entire scene over. Which brings me to

4) The entire series felt like it was padding for time. My co-watcher mentioned to me that New had said that they didn't have enough material to make 12 episodes. Then why did you film 12 episodes my guy? You could have either a) shortened the series or b) pulled more from the source material which had a lot more story to offer than what was chosen to film. The novel wasn't finished at the time, sure, but Sheep had written enough at that point to delve deeper into the characters. Team's entire background was changed….for what? The novel's version made a lot more sense and would have provided a lot more insight into Team's struggle. Team's journey to therapy was just left by the wayside. I guess….who needs therapy to deal with traumatic life events anyway? There was just so much they left out/changed that could have made for a better overall series (and would have absolutely filled 12 episodes worth of relevant content). If the issue was the unfinished novel, time constraints, or lack of funding then we had already waited three years my dude. I would have had no problem waiting longer for a more polished final result.

All in all, I think BP did a fantastic job with what they were given, but they deserved a lot better. We, as an audience, deserved better. WinTeam deserved better.

I'm just left with a feeling of dissatisfaction because this series really had the potential (with all its elements) to be great and it fell so short.

#between us the series #between us #winteam #until we meet again #uwma the series #bounprem #boun noppanut guntachai #prem warut #koda watches bl #first watch

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bengiyo · 2 months

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Hi Ben!

I saw Vee from You're My Sky in your most misunderstood characters list and now I'm curious, what's your opinion on this series as a whole? Gifs tell me that it has a high production value, great cinematography and Suar in it, so I'm quite tempted to give it a go. But it's rarely talked about so... is it really worth a watch?

I love You're My Sky because it was the first show to follow in the wake of I Told Sunset About You and try to bring rich color, engaging cinematography, and and structured presentation of character dynamics after ITSAY. It's also a sports BL that takes its sports portion super seriously. It's also the show you should watch if you like when the younger guy is pursuing the older guy, because that's true for all three couples.

The show has three couples in it, and I really liked how the show kept all three couples at about the same moment emotionally throughout the entire runtime. It meant that we sometimes wouldn't see one of the side couples for a while, but I much prefer that to having the couples be in really different places and throw off the emotional tone of an episode.

Our primary pairing is between Thorn and Tupfah. They are childhood friends. Thorn followed Tupfah to his college after a few years and was confused why Tupfah no longer plays basketball. Theirs is a friends-to-lovers story where Thorn has been pining for a long time.

This show let us also see them spend time as a couple and face real complications that a couple of two aspiring professional athletes would face, including availability for college practice and potentially ending up with different clubs. There's also a great deal of examination of the kinds of coaching environments athletes might suffer or thrive under.

The second couple, Saen and Aii, aren't a sports couple, but Aii is older and graduating. He's focused on leaving Thailand and pursuing a professional career in Japan. In them you get a determined, sociable younger pursuer and a standoffish older interest.

I really liked where they went with this couple because we got to see a grandmother giving a knowing smirk when she enters the bedroom after their first night together, and we see them deal with the impending stress of being in a long-distance relationship for likely years.

I wrote about Vee in the ask you mentioned, but to reiterate, Vee is assigned to work with his sister's boyfriend on the track team. Vee, being the flirty little shit he is, teases Dome and is having a good time until it gets way too serious for both of them and he's having a panic attack in the middle of a race.

Their story is compelling because it doesn't end in success on screen. The social politics of their attraction make it impossible for them to consummate this romance under the current circumstances, and the show explores how this choice impacted the sister as well.

And then there's the basketball! This show does so much cool shit with the camera and the frame around the basketball itself. It also has a robust supporting cast in the basketball team. There's a beautiful scene of the whole team giving space to Thorn and Fah to figure out something important, and there's another lovely scene where they talk about gender identity.

Truly, as a man who enjoys sports and sports dramas, they did not fuck around when it came to doing the sports portion of this. The only other BL I remember being this serious about the sports was maybe Project S: Spike. Almost all the gifs are going to be the romance stuff, but the sports stuff in this show is well done.

I'm a big fan of this project, and I think it has some of my favorite presentations of masculinity in genre. I will probably rewatch it after I finish this UWMA rewatch.

Thanks for the ask!

#answered #you're my sky #thai bl

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absolutebl · 10 months

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Hi.

I was watching TharnType for the first time. I started wondering why people have issues with gay for you and wifey and other things like that. From what I'm seeing it isn't intended in a harmful spirit. It's not received badly in the show in context. I'm not just specifically talking about TharnType but just these tropes in general. I was wondering if someone, the writer/screenwriter, director, any actor or someone else said that they'd intended it as demeaning or in a bad way... I don't know if I phrased that correctly. But I guess I'm wondering what people are basing this on. Even UWMA's Pharm's entire demeanor. Before I watched it I'd read that he is too feminine and damsel in distress-y. But watching the show made me realize that he is traumatized. I noticed similar patterns with other shows as well. Is it audience interpretations?

BL Is a Mess of Really Damaging Stuff & You Probably Shouldn't Just Accept it

Because, if you do just accept it without thought, you're also being damaged. If you're gay, you're being taught a type of gayness that doesn't exist and will fuck up your expectations. If you're straight you're misinterpreting what an entire group of people are like (that's prejudice, FYI). And if you're somewhere in between you're learning really bad behavior patterns for your coming out and self actualization journey.

And no, I don't think you're capable of distinguishing fiction from reality, because you've just asked a question that patently demonstrates a burgeoning parasocial tendency. (And yes, parasocial relationships can and do form with fictional characters. Why do you think I am so terrified by KinnPorsche fandom and shipper culture?)

Here have some education, first one is free:

Imaginary Friends & Real-World Consequences: Parasocial Relationships (YouTube video)

But also, if you don't want me to rant about this, and you just wanted to justify your questionable taste, you should stop reading right now. I get it, denial is great! Go sail that river.

Here I am talking about the good BL can do. That doesn't mean I'm blind to its flaws.

Still reading?

Okay, well, now you asked for it.

And guess what, I'm not gonna sugar lube coat it.

Consider yourself Drunk Type lying in a bed and I'm Tharn's c*** shoving some dry BL reality into your a******.

Oh, don't like that image, do you?

Tough nuts.

Put yourself in my position. I don't wanna have to do this either.

Consider this a "BL narratives made me do it" post.

I'm not responsible for anything, I'm just an archetype.

I'll be your seme for today and you were all just "too cute" for me to resist and now you have to take some tumblr dub con...

But first:

Seme uke when it specifically conflates seme with "the man" and uke with "the girl" is old fashioned, anti-feminist, and anti-queer. Here's some of where I talk about it, but I talk about it a lot. Too much, some might say.

Pharm is a blushing maiden archetype character, I talk about it and what that means here:

It's sex negative. And a lot of it stems from internalized misogyny and ties to something called benevolent sexism. It's pretty rampant in BL.

Yes I think Pharm's behavior can be perceived as traumatized, but that trauma is brought about by In's past actions and the fact that In was punished (BY THE NARRATIVE) not just for being gay but for being a self-actualized pro-sex uke character.

There is a distinction being made between critical discourse over narrative versus how the characters behavior makes an audience feel (within the immersive experience of the drama). Some viewers care about this distinction, others do not.

I very much get why someone might like TharnType (I did) but actually also, you might want to think about why you like it despite the messages the narrative is sending... You might want to think about not just the characters in their little perfect romance world together, but consider if you were in the position of either of those characters how you would feel or behave.

And NOW the Dub Con Portion of tonight's BL party

Okay I was trying to be my usual semiseme-welcoming snark self but ya know what, let's be VERY FUCKING CLEAR HERE because I am jet lagged and tetchy....

We (the collective of BL critics here on tumblr) aren't always talking about WHAT is depicted so much as HOW it's depicted, and whether that HOW allows the WHAT to skate by without encouraging the audience to reflect on the damage the WHAT does to their own perception of what is romantic. Or what is queer. Or what is morally acceptable for decent human interaction.

Like thinking, for example, that it's okay for Tharn to RAPE Type while he is drunk.

Why on earth is that okay? It's NOT OKAY. It's just NOT!!!!

Did Type ask for it?

Did he dress too sexy?

Was his skirt too short?

Was he too much of a jerk?

Did he want it anyway?

Did he not protest enough?

Did he protest too much?

You gonna make that call for him, are you? You read his mind (apparently the way Tharn can?)

But SERIOUSLY.

What if you were actually in Type's position? Roommates with someone you didn't like who molested you when you were drunk. At home. In your own bed. What if that roommate didn't look like Tharn? What if your roommate were the wrong gender or body type or age or familial relationship (!) for your preferences? How would you actually feel?

Because if you're okay with this, really okay for yourself, you have a strong kink and you need to seek out the appropriate community or you are signing up for a very abusive relationship and likely an early death.

Can't put yourself in Type's shoes/bed?

How about Tharn?

Are you the kind of human who would molest a drunk person just because you desired him? Her?

Because they're homophobic and you want to punish them with your queerness?

Because they were a jerk to you?

You always get back at people by raping them?

You an old white dude putting your hand down secretary's shirts because they're just "too cute to resist"?

Why should you have to resist taking what you want? Who cares that there is a whole other human involved?

Grabbing ladies by the pussy any chance you get and bragging about it, are ya? Or is it somehow different or less damaging because TT is dude on dude?

So, are you gonna justify taking what you want and violating another person because they're the same sex?

Now who's being "gay for you"? This is going all the way into DL closet case "it doesn't count if it's with a man" territory.

Because if you are any of the above 8, please block me right tf now. (And... do I have a world leader to recommend for YOU to get into a car with.)

GAH!

Fucking TharnType.

Anygay...

I talk about dub con here:

My initial post about TharnType is here, but more recently here's us having a whole ThanType discourse unpacking Mame among other things as part of the BL movement both as a genre and as a fandom:

and here's an important article on rape culture in Thailand

Gay for you talked about here:

Wife language talked about here:

I'm gonna go watch some BL trash that, hopefully, doesn't have any rape in it. (You never know tho...)

Fuck me (consensually) I am so tired.

I'd drink but I did too much of that already this week.

Maybe I need to eat something.

Don't troll m,e just block me.

For heaven's sake please.

(source)

#ABL goes on a rant #sorry not sorry #could we please stop having this conversion #just try putting yourself into these characters shoes #for me?#also ARRRGGHHHHHHHHHH #thai bl #rape culture and misogyny and benevolent sexism and ....#I don't wanna think about this anymore so I'm not entertaining anymore asks on these subjects I'm just pointing people at this rant FOREVER #I watch BL to forget about this stuff

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thebroccolination · 1 year

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- WinTeam Supercut -

To support the series, watch Between Us on Studio Wabi Sabi's official playlist (free cut version), their membership channel (subscription-based uncut version), and iQiYi (subscription-based uncut version).

A while back, I decided to make a WinTeam supercut for myself, and I made a post talking about why. I enjoyed the series overall, but I think there were some aspects that really suffered from the editing decisions, so I'll go through how this edit will differ from the main series.

Couples: This cut only has WinTeam, WanTul, and DeanPharm, since ManaowPruk and BeePrince are unrelated to the main storyline. Flashbacks: I'm a devoted enemy of the flashback, especially when the scene we're flashing back to was fourteen seconds ago. Flashbacks are shorter or removed entirely. Music: I've found an AI tool that separates the vocal and music tracks so I can either isolate the dialogue completely and make the scene quiet or replace the music with something different. Subtitles: I adjusted these only to make them more readable with some native English nuances – I tried to keep them mostly intact because I don't speak Thai, so these are mostly linguistically cosmetic adjustments.

Example: Below is a clip from episode one of the supercut. First, I edited the initial audio when Team approaches Pharm. In the original, when Team walks up, his voice is just as loud both times he calls Pharm's name, but since the scene begins from Pharm's perspective, I wanted to help the transition to Team's perspective by putting a fade-in effect over his first "Pharm?" so it shows how disconnected Pharm feels until Team shows up and calls him back. Also in the original, after Team gets the call from Pharm, there's a long stretch of Pharm having a breakdown intercut with flashbacks to InKorn. I removed all of this as well as the original background music. While searching for a different instrumental track to use, I realized that I'd shortened the scene enough that I could extend the previous scene's instrumental from Until We Meet Again throughout Team and Pharm's scene as well. I cut just enough from the top of the scene that the music swells just as Pharm puts his head on Team's shoulder, emphasizing this sweet moment early in their friendship. To me, the UWMA music felt more thematic than the music in BU, since the scene is about DeanPharm. Like this, it's a fond callback to the original series where most of us were first introduced to these characters. And as a bonus, I was able to place the track just right so that the music gets softer when the camera pans to Win, switching our attention to his perspective right before the scene ends. And that's it! A few simple edits and we have all four characters covered by one of the most iconic tracks from the series that launched them all!

Note: This project is above all a labor of love. I don't want to take views away from the original series, so please support the official versions where you can.

Enjoy! \o/

Episode List **updated when time permits**

• Episode 1 • Episode 2 • Episode 3 • Episode 4 • Episode 5 • Episode 6 • Episode 7 • Episode 8 • Episode 9 • Episode 10 • Episode 11 • Episode 12

#between us the series #between us #winteam #teamwin #bounprem #premboun #boun noppanut #prem warut #winteam supercut #keycuts

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halliescomut · 1 year

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I'm not surprised necessarily, but I am a bit surprised at the lead that Waan/Tul had....I'm still working on my full post about their relationship, but for funsies once that's done I might do a quick little series suggestion. Like a short little concept for the series as a whole with episode breakdowns. So for some more fun how about another poll... Who would you want to see for the second couple??

Now this is an interesting one since Cooheart does appear in Until We Meet Again, but since his character is dead....we could technically keep this acting pair together. No clear ideas for the couple dynamic/story.

We could pair Santa with a new actor, for this one I'm feeling that Wiew ends up going to college in Chonburi, maybe living with Waan, or in the hotel (which is a very specific trope that I really love for some reason). Love interest could be anything character wise, maybe another employee, maybe a fellow student, another long-term guest, who's to say??

Wiew/Don-Now I was hesitant, because I can't for sure get an idea of the age difference here, but seeing as Win and Dean are the same age, their brothers have to be fairly close in age. It's been a minute, but I think that Don is still in high school, but I could be wrong there. If so...maybe roommates to lovers while they're attending university together in Chonburi??

Entirely new couple, I'm seeing hotel employee romance, some workplace comedy vibes, maybe Tul does some matchmaking (honestly I can see that from Tul) while he's visiting Waan. I picked Fort and Oat for this because they're already signed to Wabi Sabi, but I do think they'd be a cute couple. They both had secondary roles in My Only 12%.

Finally, Del/?- So since we do love a connected story, we could bring Dean's sister into it, add a GL element, which is an idea I'm fond of. Del is still played by Pineare, and as her love interest I picked Aomsin, partly because she's also signed to Wabi Sabi, but also because she often has a badass vibe in her Instagram. I'm kind of thinking Del's going through a 'rebellious phase' she leaves school and gets a job at the hotel as like a holdover, kind of handed to her by her parents, since they have that connection (but she's still doing an excellent job, she takes pride in her work). Aomsin's character is someone she meets through work, she's out & proud, Del is intrigued by this very unapologetically herself person. She wants to get to know her. I'd personally stay away from gay panic and move more towards demiromantic/demisexual. Have this be the first time Del's had this more intense attraction toward anyone. I like the idea of juxtaposing the relationship of Waan/Tul (who in my head are two gays settled in their sexual identity) with Del in this new relationship, where you do have someone questioning, but not with the panic/fear.

So what do you think....to be honest, I think you could talk me into any of these with a good enough hook.

#Between Us #Between Us the series #Until We Meet Again #UWMA the series #Thai BL #BL drama #BL series #BL Poll #santa pongsapak #pineare pannin #aomsin waratchaya #cooheart #fort wayupak #oat tharathon #mix wanut #waan x tul #waantul #oreo puwanai #yacht patsit

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