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kindlespark · 2 months

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this is gonna be SO long and rambly sorry anyway i saw a post abt how babel does queer characters and it got me thinking abt why the tropes it uses would usually turn me off other stories but didn’t here

MAJOR BABEL SPOILERS //

i feel like i’d be more mad abt how robinramy ended up in babel if it marketed itself as queer lit at all or if its fans were going “WOW AMAZING QUEER REP” abt it. but no one told me any of that, so finding out they were gay was just a fun little bonus surprise to me. i get why ppl are eh abt robinramy not getting together/technically still being subtext (which i dont think is really true btw like the book literally says “robin was falling in love” but idk i guess if you were stupid you might’ve assumed that it was falling in love with oxford given how romantic some of the other language is (WHICH IS ALSO THE POINT bc i think robin’s friendship with ramy blurring into romance is why he romanticised like all his friendships/experiences in oxford BUT IM GETTING OFF-TOPIC)). i just think robin’s repression abt being gay was intrinsically tied to his attitudes on imperialism (wrt refusing to acknowledge anything that complicated his life until it was too late) and i don’t consider it a cop out or queerbait. like i genuinely don’t think robinramy could ever have gotten together without drastic alterations being made in terms of plot and character. plus i think it’s clear that kuang didn’t want to write a story with any kind of focus on romance at all, because it’s not that kind of book. there’s no successful het romance either, so it grates a lot less. the only reason romance is included at all is to show the ways in which white entitlement manifests. so the tragic way robinramy played out just made sense to me.

and i speak as someone who accidentally spoiled myself on You Know What in the middle of reading and i was like ugghh boooo dreading it the whole time expecting to roll my eyes when it happened but then when it did i was like. wow im actually not that mad LMFAO 😭😭😭 actually thematically the book sets it up so well that i believed that this was unfortunately the only way it could’ve gone. babel is about the loss and tragedy and grief that colonised people experience. it’s about the lengths people will go to to uphold empire and the lengths ppl will go to to tear it down like idk 😭 i guess it is bury your gays but it didnt bother me this time because i thought it fit thematically ❤️ i enjoy tragedy as a genre a lot and i would’ve made it gay anyway you know. thanks rf kuang for doing it for me so i didnt have to.

WHICH IS ALL TO SAY that i guess if you’re going into babel for the queer rep without appreciating that the story is fundamentally a tragedy it would feel like it’s just reusing tired tropes….. but i think the choices kuang made were rly deliberate and not in a way that feels like trauma porn or shock value. the book is fundamentally about the struggles of poc so the layer of queerness that was introduced felt like a subtle extension of the experiences of characters of colour in the book, and i enjoyed and related to it as a queer chinese person who kind of realised they had to prioritise their fight for the liberation of poc over queerness mainly because the idea of western queer liberation cannot be dissociated from imperialism and many aspects of homophobia as we know it was an export of christian european empire into our colonised countries in the first place and FUCK THIS IS A WHOLE OTHER TANGENT ABOUT HOW I THINK RAMY AS A CHARACTER IS EMBLEMATIC OF THE TENSION AND STRUGGLE THAT QUEER POC DIASPORA HAVE BETWEEN OUR IDENTITIES GODDAMNIT OK FORGET IT POST CANCELLED i just rly think babel’s handling of queer characters is fine and makes sense and i like it personally and maybe i will make a coherent analysis about it one day but that day is not today byeeeeeee

#/#//#sam speaks #byeeee ive been trying to type this post for over an hour but i give up #slashes are there bc i dont want it to show up in the main tag it’s rly incoherent and also subjective #babel #babel spoilers

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bellamygateoldblog · 2 years

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Nah ur right because all the “spoilers” about Will and Mike are just things we either already know or could infer just by watching the trailer lmfao? And where is the m*leven then? Very strange to me but it still left me with a pit in my stomach tbh I can’t handle seeing another queer kid with an unrequited crush on their best friend I just can’t. it’s so SO TIRED

I’m already frustrated that they seem to have pushed Will to the side again as if he wasn’t a major part of the plot to begin with. Why build up all this mystery surrounding him in the first two seasons only to suddenly sideline him completely and say “yeah he WAS important but now he’s just some gay kid lol”. Wtf are all those parallels to El then? Sigh

i fully agree with you babes like idk that article seemed rly bizzare to me. they listed mileven, lumax and jancy but then chose to spend the paragraph talking about will's sexuality and seemingly unrequited crush? im not saying they're lying about having seen the season but the whole thing was written really strangely. it was like a non-review. i would say more but im like kind of deflated atm 😅

#stranger things spoilers #stranger things 4 #stranger things 4 spoilers

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moonguilt · 3 years

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queen marie and inverness hehe

HI DARCY

queen marie: what experiences are you looking forward to having in the future (kissing a girl, going to pride, etc)?

HMMM well I’m definitely looking forward to kissing a girl!!! ive only ever kissed boys and never rly liked it so.. yeah im hype for that. also just like, being able to call a girl my girlfriend the first time?? and to hear her call me her girlfriend to her friends/family?? i feel like that’s just gonna hit different yknow. ALSO ok its late at night and im tired and this is probably tmi but im like, super inexperienced with uhhh things and im really looking forward to having someone who can help me like… figure it all out? idk. i just. i feel like i need some help LMFAO and im looking forward to being with someone who will be happy to take it step by step with me ❤ sorry if that sounds weird idk

inverness: what’s the best part of being a lesbian?

GAY JOKES god i love making gay jokes. if i can blame any minor inconvenience on homophobia for the meme i absolutely will. peak humor. also i love being a lesbian gamer in particular because guys already have such a hard time wrapping their heads around the concept of girl gamers but a GAY girl gamer??? their brains explode and i find that so fucking funny honestly. and also sad but mostly funny at this point

send me a gentleman jack ask!!

#not vld #personal letters #ask #thespacenico

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cheekbites-moved · 6 years

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ok so i watched love simon for the first time last night & i was too tired to make a ‘final thoughts’ post then, so here it is now! lol

obviously this is gonna be long as hell so im putting it under a read more for ur convenience lmfao

im actually gonna start with what i didnt like bc it was just one thing.

obviously, if uve seen the movie (as many ppl hated this too), or read my liveblogging posts, u know what it is lol

ill be honest, as a gay person, im incredibly biased towards simon. ill admit that. that being said, how his friends treated him after he got outed was fucking disgusting.

here’s the thing: the actions simon did that his friends got upset over were motivated by the threat of him being outed. now, if this movie was just some fluffy, fantastical movie, the threat would just be ppl knowing he’s gay and that’s it. no repercussions, just ppl gaining the knowledge that he’s not straight. not that big a deal.

however, since this movie tries its best to be accurate and realistic to things, it’s not that simple in the movie, and it’s not the simple in real life.

the risk of being outed is not just ‘ppl knowing ur gay’ and that’s it.

the risk of being outed involves the risk of getting bullied (which does happen in the movie, twice. once to ethan on screen, once to simon after he comes out.), getting abandoned by ur friends (which also does happen in the movie), getting expelled from school or fired from ur job if either of them find out & are lgbtphobic, getting kicked out of ur house if ur parents/whoever u live w find out & theyre lgbtphobic, and, at worst, it can come with the risk of getting beaten or even killed.

and no, this isnt me blowing this up to be more serious than it should be. bc unfortunately, in the world we live in, these things can happen as a result of someone being lgbt, whether they came out themselves or were outed by someone else.

the worst thing simon did was hurt his friends’ feelings a bit.

he didnt notice leah’s feelings for him (which. why would he? he’s not interested in her, or any girl for that matter, so obviously he’s not looking for the signs of interest. why would he notice that, and why was it his responsibility to know anyway??). he tried to set nick up with her because he genuinely thought she had feelings for nick, and that’s the main reason why he didn’t realize that she liked him.

yes, part of the motive was trying to get nick out the way so he could set abby up with martin, but ffs. let me reiterate that his life, and potential future, were on the line. having the possibility of all the aforementioned things potentially happening to him should make his actions at least understandable.

like falling for someone that doesnt like u back bc theyre not attracted to ur gender (which like.. hello. gay ppl fucking experience that shit all the time too & we have to learn to deal w it.), or being put in a game of matchmaker bc ur friend was trying to save their own fucking life is rly not that big a deal compared to said friend’s situation of trying to save their own fucking life.

one situation hurts, but can eventually be healed from (which clearly they do in the movie since abby and nick got together anyway in spite of simon’s actions, and leah’s fine). the other situation has the chance of resulting in a fucking future/life being ruined or taken. i think that one is much more fucking important.

all in all, i just wish they wouldve fucking apologized. bc they screamed at him after he got outed.

abby saw how fucking terrified he was when he came out to her, but she’s not gonna have a single ounce of sympathy when he was outed to the entire school against his will?? like what the fuck!

also wish they wouldve stood up for him when he got bullied. they just sat there with guilty expressions, but none of them did anything. it was really rough to watch.

as much as all this seriously pissed me off, though, especially as a person who has been outed against my will so all of simon’s heartache as a result rly resonated with me..

i appreciate that they put that shit in.

bc u know what unfortunately that is how cishet ppl react sometimes. guilting u for being lgbt, guilting u for not coming out to them despite knowing how scary it can be, etc etc etc.

and getting apologizes from cishet ppl for that kinda shit is rare. so, as much as i was annoyed that they didnt apologize, that is unfortunately realistic. as much as i wish they wouldve stood up for him, that was also unfortunately realistic. so im still glad it’s in there even if it did piss me off.

simon’s speech to martin was nice at least, and i hope that it taught some cishet ppl that have outed ppl, or threatened to out ppl, or wanted to out ppl, why u just dont fucking do that shit.

woo now that that’s outta my system lmfao onto all the good stuff! in bullet list form bc theres a l o t lmfao

the soundtrack ESP for the emotional moments wOw

‘i wanna dance with somebody’ gay musical addition

simon’s subtle annoyed looks whenever straight nonsense™ happens

simon’s terrible attempts at being straight

simon’s extremely subtle, but still noticeable if ur lgbt, panic whenever the potential chance of him being outed/discovered arises

the dog

simon’s parents’ speeches to him after he comes out to them

seriously as gay, nb person w lgbtphobic parents that shit meant a lot to hear.

the fact that this is not only a mainstream lgbt rom-com, but also a mainstream movie abt a gay kid learning to love himself and be confident with himself and his sexuality

simon’s journey to being able to proudly proclaim that he’s gay.

the speech he has near the end is so fucking powerful bc we see him struggle throughout the movie to say it.

first he cant say it at all, then he can only say it quietly, but by the end of the movie, he’s proclaiming to the entire school, loud and proud, that yes. he is gay. and he’s not going to feel wrong for that anymore.

i feel like that entire journey is one that can really resonate with a lot of ppl, including myself. so im so fucking happy that this movie included that progression, and ended it with him having such an exuberant amount of confidence. it was honestly really beautiful, and im glad i got to witness it.

simon practicing pickup lines in the mirror

“hey barack its me jacques”

abby trying to teach simon how to flirt

simon googling “how to dress like a gay guy”

simon not having martin’s bullshit and telling him off for how fucked up blackmailing him was from the start, but especially his speech about how important/personal coming out is to ppl and how shitty it was that he took that away from him

MRS ALBRIGHT IN GENERAL BUT ESPECIALLY HER ICONICALLY STICKING UP FOR SIMON IN THE CAFETERIA I STAN HER SO HARD!!

ethan in general, but especially his speech to simon in the office, and super especially the line “one gay’s a snnooze, two’s a hilarious hate crime”

like i seriously appreciate how real this movie is. and it doesnt have lines like this, or plots like the blackmailing/outing just for drama.

it’s to show that this is how being lgbt can be sometimes, this shit rly happens. and i just rly appreciated seeing all that in a way that didnt even try to pull any punches. it was so clear they seriously cared abt making this an accurate movie, and that meant a lot

GETTING TO SEE TWO BOYS KISSING ON SCREEN MULTIPLE TIMES, AND NOT JUST THAT, BUT GETTING TO SEE THEM GET A HAPPY ENDING!!!!!

i seriously cried for like 20 minutes starting from when bram showed up at the ferris wheel to well after the credits had ended.

i cannot even begin to express how fucking incredible it was to get to see two boys kissing, getting cheered on, and getting to be happy.

especially in the scene where simon picks up everyone, and leah moves so bram can get in the front seat and he kisses simon when he gets in. IT WAS SO SWEET.. AND BEAUTIFUL I LOVED/APPRECIATED IT SO MUCH IT MEANT SOOOO FUCKING MUCH TO ME GOSH

my thoughts of the movie can be boiled down to this: im so fucking happy this movie exists.

im so fucking happy that a movie abt a gay kid learning to be confident in his sexuality, falling in love and getting to have a happy ending with his boyfriend exists.

ive never cried more at a movie than i did at this movie, and ive especially never cried harder out of sheer happiness for a movie.

knowing that this movie was in theaters, and that gay kids/teens have a movie that lets them know early on that not only is gonna be ok, but they do have a chance at a happy ending, and they deserve it, was so goddamn amazing.

this movie is so, so important. and im so happy that it, and the book its based off of, exist.

and it’s a prime example of why representation matters so much. it was so fucking amazing to see myself, as a gay person, represented so well, so thoughtfully, so respectfully.

i just... i love this movie so much. and im so glad it exists. and im so happy i finally got to see it.

i hope it inspires more movies/stories like it to be made.

i hope that it results in lgbt stories being happy, uplifting stories.

i hope that it results in lgbt characters getting to be the main characters.

i hope it results in coming out stories being about the lgbt characters, and not how them coming out affects the cishet characters around them.

and i hope it results in less tragic endings for lgbt characters, and more happy endings for lgbt characters.

for a long time, a future where we get the stories just mentioned has seemed bleak. but this movie changed that. and im excited for the road i hope it’s started us on.

#long post//#text heavy//#gotta fight the urge to rewatch it a million times now tbh tktjrkjrtj #potentially new fav movie? or at least fav live action movie #aaa im just. i love!! sm!!! bless...#luna watches love simon #homophobia mention//

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jonghyyn · 7 years

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1)this fandom turned to be disturbing yall only care about shinee sexual orientation and gender when its not of anyone's business. you spend all ur time on fighting over their personal matters instead of enjoying their music and what they give us. both sides acting like what they say is confirmed facts nd when one of shinee say random names or look at someone you act like they want to have sex with them nd yall act that the only attraction is sexual or romantic

2)the side that gets angry of the possibility that shinee are queer is homophobic nd not all idols has to be cis. the side that gets angry at the possibility that shinee might be like girls is weird coz we don't know these idols in real life no matter what they say or share with us

3) as an pan-aro nd part of lgbt its lowkey skeevy for me that shawols are painting shinee as lgbt icons when they only did basic decent things but in no way they r lgbt icons. yall literally could be calling a hetero guys an lgbt icons. I get wanting to connect more with them nd wanting representation but its not like this. actual lgbt people get killed nd a lots of lgbt people are fighting for our rights with little support bc we r looking in representation somewhere else we r not sure about

4) and please don't start with the closet talk bc I know how dangerous for an idol to come out but the idols u think they r queer might not be queer in the first place and if they were we have no right to want to them out too, at the end we don't know their sexualities. what am I saying is both opinions should be treated as headcanons not as confirmed facts nd this whole issue shouldn't have got that big. also neurodivergent idols headcanons should be respected too

tbh i dont even know what ur..trying 2 say by this?? i dont understand how youre like Yeah, Headcanons! but when ppl talk about headcanons ur like no...i didnt mean it like that... i mean it honestly baffles me how you reconcile these two things. if u respect ppls abilities to have headcanons youve also got to accept ppls ability to Talk about them as headcanons?? getting in discussions w ppl who say every idol Must be straight or cis isnt fighting w someone over shinees orientations Specifically, its fighting against the bigotry involved in this line of thinking. arguing w ppl who say “___ Msut be cishet” is not saying “_____ must not be cishet” its saying to question what motivates ppl to say the first thing. its not really About shinee exclusively bc its applicable to every single idol, and tbh every single person. its a discussion larger than any one particular person. i think this is an aspect that a lot of ppl miss.

also i truly dont know when ive ever acted like attraction can only be sexual or romantic bc i rly have not. talking about how queer idols Exist is not demanding idols be out. its acknowledging a reality that is hardly ever acknowledged. like. ignoring queerphobia is Not whats going to make it easier for idols to come out, discussing how queerphobia manifests in the idol industry is what will.

it really tires me when ppl pull out the U Spend All Ur Time Doing This, we’re all here for the music!! enough of that!! because while thats true, we all did become connected through shinee through music, a part of being an Active participant in fandom for many ppl is also like...talking about stuff besides their music. we’re here for their music but the Reason ppl blog about them and do shit like make gifs or edits or fics or what have u is bc they also care about the members themselves. their music is a given. i also like mamamoos music a whole ton, but i dont have a blog dedicated 2 mamamoo bc i am not As invested in the band members as i am in shinee. which isnt to say that every stan has to get involved w this specific discourse or even discourse in general, just that stans often Do get involved w non-musicy things in the process of stanning.

why is it that only queer headcanons are policed to this level...why is it only queer headcanons are met w Listen To Their Music Instead ! instead of the numerous other things ppl involved in fandom do that dont directly relate to their music. why dont u tell gif makers that theyre Too Obssesed w shinees faces and to go listen to their music instead. ppl do shit like “boyfriend imagines” for shinee which are 1000% unrelated to their music and tbh effectively function as Headcanons except youll never see ppl respond to that with Go Listen To Their Music Instead! while its not always (although it. often is lmfao) explicitly said, a lot of bf imagines are implicitly cishet and i feel like this is undoubtedly why those are accepted w/o word. bc ppl find being cishet ‘more polite’ and ‘less intrusive.’ when u make being queer a taboo to talk about (whilst simultaneously accepting anyone that talks about being cishet) u are basically saying that it is more acceptable to be cishet, while being queer is something that ought to be kept private. if ur truly adamant that this is about not spending enough time enjoying shinees music, then id like 2 see u come at every single other thing in fandom that has nothing to do w music. every time you see someone say “hey jonghyun would make a great bf” remind that person they shldnt care about something like that and shld instead be supporting shinees music. in any case, you ought to examine what makes u think that someone being queer is taboo to speak of while not rallying against statements like ‘he would be a great bf 2 his girlfriend.’

anyway i agree that ultimately what people are doing is making. headcanons. ive always agreed w this fact? this is a thing i continually say?? its why im not out there to Objectively Prove that jonghyun is gay or bi or whatever. the reason people respond to statements like ‘no jonghyun is not gay hes a straightie hetero’ with ‘no ur wrong’ bc the first statement is one that is Constantly enforced by society and it just functions as a way 2 shut down queer voices and reassert the heterosexual default present Everywhere. society treats straight as the absolute default. this is why straight “Headcanons” arent treated as well lmao... headcanons. theres rly no reason for anyone out there 2 headcanon something as straight?? when its the Assumed Sexuality in every situation?? tbh the only reason ppl are interested in doing that is Denying that idols might not be straight. doing this when ppl are Forced 2 be straight is gross. theres a difference between queer ppl saying Hey, remember not all idols are straight so lets talk about that and straight ppl being all No! ur wrong! he cant be anything but straight so shut up! these two things are coming from different perspectives.

like. imagine a pie being sliced up. historically, a 100% of this pie has been given to straight people. when queer ppl speak up, theyre trying to take some of their fair share of this pie. saying Hey, queer ppl exist!! is trying to section urself out a piece of the pie when youve been given none. someone saying Nope!! theyre all definitely straight is stealing back the measly slices someone has Actively Fought to obtain and attempting to perpetuate this imbalance.

im not rly here for ppl painting shinee as lgbt icons. ive expressed how annoying i find statements like ‘king of the gays’ or whatever to be. but also just. saying that anyone in shinee might be lgbtq is not painting them as an lgbtq icon?? its just stating a fact?? esp since a lot of the King of The Gays ! stuff seems to come from ppl who position him as a Amazing Cishet Ally so. idek buddy i feel like youve got to further think through some of your positions bc some seem to be in direct conflict with others.

#long post #i am unable to be concise literally ever #but anyway my dude. how can u accept that headcanons are okay but also expect ppl to like..never talking about them...#i agree all headcanons should be respected but this sort of requires ppl being allowed to talk about their headcanons u know ?#i truly feel like youve got 2 work through some of this stuff and think it through #ppl talking about headcanons doesnt mean they dont care about other things #i definitely do #its just that the only thing im Interrogated on is headcanons and im a rather long winded person so ill answer as such #while im a Discourse Prone person and i discourse a lot of this #(mostly- like i said earlier abt- whats going on Conceptually bc Thats the most important thing here its not a shinee exclusive subject)#but someone could hold the same opinions i do w/o necessarily discoursing about them (and i kno ppl that are like that in fact)#anon #ask

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