#if Lyanna loves Rhaegar i don't want it she's a child
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i need an all the young dudes equivalent for the pre-rebellion gang. And if someone hasn’t already written it i’m gonna have to.
#Ned Stark#Brandon Stark#Lyanna Stark#Benjen Stark#Robert Baratheon#rhaegar targaryen#Stannis Baratheon#catelyn stark#arthur dayne#ashara dayne#Elia Martell#Howland Reed#I can't tag everyone but you know what I mean#i don't have time to write this#so please let a long well written perfectly characterized fic of these folks exsist#if Ned and Robert arent queer I don't want it#if Lyanna loves Rhaegar i don't want it she's a child#if brandon is a shitty guy I don't want it#if ben isn't gay I don't want it
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Knowing Lyanna didn't want to marry Robert because he had an illegitimate child in the Vale, would Lyanna have run away with Rhaegar if she were betrothed to Stannis instead? Or would she find Stannis' flaws more tolerable than Robert's (alcoholism, domestic abuse)? Also, how would Robert or Ned or anyone else have reacted if Lyanna said she'd rather put up with Stannis as a husband?
On the one hand, I think it is at some level impossible to simply swap Stannis and Robert in Baratheon birth order, since in a dynastic, male-preference society birth order can play a key role in the development of aristocratic boys' personalities. Would Stannis still have even been the Stannis we know in the main series if he were the eldest brother? Would Stannis, as such an eldest brother, have even sought out Lyanna's hand (as the WOIAF app suggests that Robert did IOTL) - and if he did not, how would the marriage have been arranged, and would he have agreed? Nor indeed can we have any idea how much Lyanna would have known about Stannis, much less how she would have reacted to such a person, compared to how she reacted IOTL to Robert.
All that said, I personally think the issue Lyanna faced with her looming marriage to Robert ran a little deeper than "he had an illegitimate child in the Vale". What Lyanna wanted at least in part, I think, was someone who would, so she believed, truly love her - not a man who proclaimed his love for her but demonstrated otherwise. This sort of dilemma fits exactly in one of GRRM's favorite themes, duty versus love - Lyanna facing the politico-social expectation of following the betrothal made for her by her lord father versus the opportunity to pursue what she, I think at least initially, saw as personal love - and also reflects the known romantic aspects of Lyanna's personality (and inspires comparisons between Lyanna and her niece Sansa, who similarly made a desperate move for what she saw in the moment as romantic love).
So while I don't personally find it possible, or useful, to speculate on swapping out Robert for some other betrothed for Lyanna, I do think it is worth discussing why Lyanna made the decision I think she did. Lyanna, I think, wanted love, saw that she was not going to get the kind of love she wanted out of a marriage to Robert, and, with no other apparent option left to her (and with the clock ticking down to her wedding day with Robert), chose what she I think saw as a marriage for love.
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RhaegarWins! Au: Rhaegar killed Robert in the trident, Robert's Rebellion fails; Aerys dies, Rhaegar becomes king and in the end of the war he gets his third head of the dragon. Lyanna gives birth to a daughter not a son (the reader)Visenya.
But not all its sunshine and rainbows for Rhaegar Targaryen, this is an you won but at what cost scenario. First of Lyanna still dies in this scenario and since she's dead and can't tell if she went willing or not people always speculate whether she was abducted or she went willing. The faith has a long standing tradition of opposing polygamy so Rhaegar marriage to Lyanna is not recognized as legitimate, baby Visenya is a bastard, and the northerns and the stormlanders are pissed with the outcome of the rebellion. (Especially the stormlanders).
Rhaegar inherits a broken kingdom and so he goes problem solving. First he is lenient on the rebels. He takes hostages, he takes a little land from the minor Lords but let most of them keep their castles. The starks, Tully and arryns keep all of their titles and since he is walking on thin ice, and doesn't want a conflict with the faith right now,He recognizes that his marriage to Lyanna is illegitimate (the northerns are even more pissed by this), but he has Visenya legitimized and tries to appease the starks he is more lenient to them and Ned gets a royal ward, Princess Visenya.
So house Targaryen it's at its weakest point in history. worst than the dance of dragon's. But Rhaegar being Rhaegar raises Aegon to belive that he is the prince that was promised and tells him that he and his sisters are the conquerors come again and that one day he is going to marry both of them. Now neither Aegon or Rhaenys belive in their father's bullshit because Elia its a big influence in their lives. But one day Rhaegar decides that it's time to Visenya to come home and they both start developing yandare tendencies for her 😈 they may not belive in their father's prophecies but they would definitely use them to trap poor Visenya. Now I ask you what kind of yandare would Rhaenys and Aegon be? What are their differences? What are their similarities? What are your thoughts on this concept?
tw: Targaryen incest (very usual)
I didn't expect to receive this until I read it and I say I need more!! An au where Rhaegar would win Robert's Rebellion was not something I needed until you sent me this!!
Considering that all of history had changed, relations would be strained and resentment would run high, particularly between the remaining Targaryens and the Starks. I like to think that Viserys and Daenerys grew up in King's Landing with their brother, but their bastard daughter, Visenya/Y/n, went to live with the Starks. In that case, I imagine everyone would know that she is not Ned's daughter but Rhaegar's daughter, it would be fun to imagine her dynamic with the Starks.
Ned grew to love his niece, even though she represents everything that happened to his beloved sister, he still loves his niece. He resents Rhaegar, but he doesn't hate Visenya. She is just a child, i'ts not her fault her father's mistakes. I can't help but think how cool and inconvenient it would be if the entire Stark family became yandere for her. Catelyn came to love the girl as her daughter, because she was not ''Ned's bastard'', as Jon would be, she was the most present mother figure in Visenya's life and she would become delusional to the point of imagining she was really her daughter.
When Rhaegar ordered Visenya/Y/n to return home, the hell would break. The Starks don't want her to go, they don't trust the Targaryens to look after her like they do and she has grown used to the North. But they couldn't ignore Rhaegar's orders, they weren't ready for another war, the last one cost them too much, so Visenya reluctantly returned to King's Landing, meeting with her father, uncle and aunt and siblings.
Relationships would be fun to describe, I think. Rhaegar is definitely very attached to Visenya, due to the fact that she is Lyanna's daughter and he regrets not having seen her grow up, although he knew it was the best thing to do at the time. Elia had reservations about Rhaegar's bastard daughter, it wasn't resentment or hatred, but… Curiosity and she soon finds herself liking her stepdaughter.
Viserys doesn't think much of his niece, he doesn't care, at least at first. She was just Lyanna and Rhaegar's bastard child, why should he care? But Viserys finds himself interested in the way everyone else acts around Visenya and ends up finding himself closer to his niece. Obsessed, maybe.
I would imagine that Visenya and Daenerys would have been born around the same time, so the two would be the same or close in age at the very least. They would definitely be close and Dany finds herself very attached to her niece. Although they didn't grow up together, the two eventually became best friends.
Now about Aegon and Rhaenys… Definitely the trio would be the differentiated version of Aegon I, Rhaenys and Visenya. They might not believe in the prophecy, but they couldn't deny that as soon as they met their sister, things changed. Before her, Aegon and Rhaenys clung to each other, along with their mother, but it felt like something was missing. A hole in the inseparable duo and when they met... It was you who was missing.
Aegon is, in my opinion, the obsessive and slightly overprotective yandere type. He felt an instant connection with Visenya and could not deny her desires for her and as is tradition, he would take her and Rhaenys as his wives. Just like Aegon I did. It didn't matter if polygamy wasn't allowed, he would do it and he would have Rhaegar's support and maybe even Elia's. Aegon is very paranoid about his sister and will not let her leave him and Rhaenys. They were already created apart, he won't allow that again.
Rhaenys would be calmer and gentler than her brother, but she's a clingy, possessive yandere, I think. She would be particularly possessive of her sister and brother, wanting them both with her at all times. Rhaenys would definitely send jealous, murderous glares at people she deems a threat to her and her siblings. Rhaenys would grow sharp and strong.
Who knows the prophecy will not be fulfilled? With this trio. Perhaps dragons come back to life through Aegon, Visenya and Rhaenys. Perhaps the prince who was promised is not only a prince, but... A prince, a princess and a bastard? All Targaryens, different but so... close.
The world of Ice and Fire would be quite different from what we know, but interesting, don't you think?
~ Lady L
#yandere game of thrones#got#game of thrones#asoiaf#a song of ice and fire#yandere asoiaf#yandere rhaegar targaryen#yandere house stark#yandere ned stark#yandere eddard stark#yandere catelyn stark#yandere aegon targaryen#yandere rhaenys targaryen#yandere viserys iii targaryen#yandere daenerys targaryen#concept#yandere concept#yandere elia martell#yandere got
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Prologue
Dragonstone 283 AD
" Greatness and Madness are on two opposite side of a coin, every time a Targaryen is born the gods flip a coin and everyone holds their breath and wait to see what side that coun would flip on "
But if this time it would landed on Greatness
As Shaena Targaryen lay in bed sweaty and exhausted, her handmaidens Luna and Brielle stood by her holding each of her hands.
This was the last place Shaena had expected to find herself at, she expected Brandon her husband, her wolf, her lover, and best friend to be by her side.
But her husband and Lord Rickon her father in law was long gone from this wretched world around them at the hands of her mad father.
Rhaegar her stupid foolish of a twin brother and naive foolish sister-in-law Lyanna had ran away with each other claiming they loved each other and wanted to be with one another.
Or what her brother letter had said, her poor sister in law Ella niece and nephew was abandoned at the capital with her father.
Her mother who was heavily pregnant giving birth in the next room besides her her little brother Viserys was on dragon stone with them.
Her brother-in-law was away at war with Robert the usurper who wanted her brother's head and wanted her head as well claiming she was a Dragon Whore who deserved to bleed for her brother's crimes.
Now here she laid giving birth to her and Brandon's only child, Masters and Midwives surrounded all around her.
The dragon princess let out another piercing scream as another wave of contraction hit her and began to drop down onto the bed weakly.
" My lady you must push " The master encouraged her.
" I can't don't this without Brandon I need him Shaena sobbed out.
" My lady you are one of the strongest people I have ever meet you can do this " Luna said.
" She's right my lady you are a dragon and dragons don't give up " Briellle said.
Shaena rose from the bed again weakly and started to push again screeching out in pain.
" One more push my lady and your child shall be here," The master said.
Shaena pushed with all of her might screaming out loudly in pain, a loud wail filled the room.
" It's a girl my lady " The master smiled holding the young dragon wolf cub in his arm.
" Give her to me please " Shaena instructed, The master carefully passed the young dragon wolf cub in her arms.
Shaena began to sob out lightly as she stared down at her daughter, on top of her head laid silver streaks, as she began to coo down at her daughter.
The young dragon cub opened her eyes and gray slight blue eyes stared back at Shaena
Shaena find it strange at how her daughter had a touch of blue to her eyes she noticed a magical touch to them.
She then remember the prophecy that Rhaegar would go on and on about, the promised princess of ice and fire a princes born of fire and ice that would be the savior of the realm, magic would run through her veins she would be the Queen of winter, ice, fire, wolves
and dragons
Shaena didn't really believe in prophecies as her twin brother did but now she was starting to, Brandon had always say that their child would be special maybe this was would he meant.
" She's beautiful " Shaena smiled, " A True Targaryen and A Stark " Beielle comments looking down at the young dragon wolf princess in Shaena arms.
" Have you thought on a name yet my princess ? The master asked.
" Yes I have her name will be Elaena Stark Magicborn Of House Targaryen and Stark, Second Of Her Name, Princess Of Dragonstone and one day Queen Of The North" Shaena started
" That's a beautiful name my lady " Brielle smiled.
As Shaena held her bundle of joy in her arm she couldn't help but feel scared, she knew Robert wanted all Targaryen dead for taking away his precious Lyanna who had ran away willingly with her brother.
But she knew Robert wouldn't listen to reason and could be bloodthirst when he wanted to be.
Shaena could only hope Ned would protect and loved Elaena as his own.
Epilogue
A few days after the young dragon princess had passed away a few months after the birth of her daughter along with Queen Rhaella who had passed away as well giving birth to daughter she named Daenerys.
The last remaining of Rhaegar's kings guard took the targaryen siblings across the sea placing them in hiding.
Ned had traveled to Dragonstone with his men along with his nephew Jahnaerys Targaryen Rhaeagr and Lyanna's son the heir to the iron throne who had disguised as his bastard son Jon Snow
He had climbed the steps of Dragonstone and found his good sister in law Shaena in bed dying holding a little bundle in her arms which was his niece.
His eldest brother had left a child behind as well as his sister, Shaena had begged him to protect her and Brandon's daughter which he agreed to immediately.
The dragon princess died on her ancestral home and passed away peacefully and was laid to rest in Winterfell next to her husband Brandon.
Now as Ned Stark stood in the crypts holding his nieces and nephew in each of his arm, he stared up at the statues of his brother and sister in law Shaena that laid down in the ground beside one another.
Ned had a statue of Shaena built next to his brother much to Catelyn protest, Catelyn loathe Shaena very much claiming she had stole Brandon from her.
Brandon was to be wed to Catelyn Tully first but King Aerys had demanded their father to wed Brandon to Shaena claiming Ice and Fire must come together as one.
Hoster Tully was enraged at hearing the news claiming his daughter was a far better choice than a silver haired dragon whore.
At Brandon and Shaena wedding, Catelyn had confronted the princess asking why she steal Brandon from her.
Shaena simple ignored her and walk away the next day Catelyn had tried to apologized for her actions but Shaena didn't want to hear it.
Right next to Brandon statue stood Lyanna his sister statue, As Ned began to look down at his niece and nephew the two last hidden Targaryen in Westeros, rest of the Targaryen children, Rhaenys and Aegon along with Elia Martell slaughtered like dogs at the hand of The Moutain under the orders of Tywin Lannister.
As Ned stare at his brother and sister's statute, " I will protect her Brandon I promise no harm will come to her "
As he set his eyes on his sister statue he signed he couldn't help but wonder why his sister would do something so stupid run away with a married man and have a child with him
Although Rhaegar had divorced Elia and married Lyanna in favor, Lyanna claimed she couldn't marry a brute like Robert.
During that time, Catelyn had given birth to a boy names Robb after returning home to her Ned had shared her bed again and later she gave birth to girl who didn't survive to spare her from hear break of losing a child Ned had swapped the babies and placed his niece in the girl's place.
He had instructed Old Nan to put special coloring in his niece's hair to hide her Targaryen features turning from silver to a light brown color.
Now she went but the name of Lyarra Stark eldest daughter of Catelyn Stark and Eddard Stark, twin to Robb Stark.
I will protect you little cubs no harm shall come to you " Ned whispered pressing a kiss to his niece and nephew foreheads.
Author Note
First Chapter Of The Ice Dragon Queen I am so excited to upload more upcoming chapters.
In this story Jon Snow is a Targaryen still and is the heir to the iron throne.
I will have flashbacks of Shaena and Brandon
Votes and Comments are most appreciated, updates may be slow depending if I am free I still have school to do
#game of thrones#a song of ice and fire#wattpad#oringinal character#princessoficeandfire#freya allan#jaime lannister x reader#jaime lannister#ned stark#brandon stark#shaena targaryen#catelyn tully#anti rhaegar#rhaegar targaryen#lyanna stark#rhaegar x lyanna#robert baratheon#rebellion
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Why are you so admant to putting a woman against a woman?
They were both victims of Rhaegar and patriarchy.
Lyanna was a literal child. It's kind of silly to desperately try to make people hate her.
Most of my posts about Rhaegar, yet people from both sides, see my talk about lyanna only. I don't want people to hate her, but I wrote that,
Because a woman is allowed to feel negative about another woman who hurts her. And you aren't being progressive or feminist by banning that.
Yes, Lyanna hurt Elia. And I'm not even getting into if she played part in causing the rebellion or not. I'm talking about Elia's feelings and safety of her children.
And if they survived, she would have hurt her more.
And the fact that she was young makes it worse for Elia. Because any adult would feel the need to suppress their frustration and pain that is rightfully felt when the one who hurt them is much younger than them. But do people talk or think of that? No. Because Saint lyanna must be protected at all costs.
Do I feel sorry for Lyanna? Yes, to some extent. I also recognize that Rhaegar hurt her. But I can't care for her unless I read that she regretted what she did and not because her family died only but also she regretted causing hurt to Elia's feelings.
Just because a man is the biggest culprit doesn't mean the woman is faultless. This is not justice.
And when I say she should be held accountable, I don't mean beheaded or spanked. I mean feeling sorry for what she did. Can you imagine what a monster and how sick I am?
I don't want to see Martin giving me Lyanna was so sad that her married lover/husband was dead and for his rightful wife who was raped and killed with her children but she still wanted Rhaegar and would have stayed with Rhaegar out of love if she had survived.
Elia is always made a doormat in order to make Lyanna look like a poor baby that adult Elia would pat her head and protect her at all cost for the sake of "not putting a woman against woman" as you think you are doing. Otherwise, she is a silly non-feminist non-progressive woman.
It's you who is degrading a woman's feelings for fake progressiveness.
One Anon asked me if Lyanna's age is enough to say she was naive. Lyanna was young, but she wasn't naive when it came to this. And yes, anon, as you put it in your ask, a young person isn't necessarily naive in everything. So their mistakes aren't always due to nativity. I agree. Sometimes, it's selfishness.
Call me what you want. Unfollow or send anonymous asks to belittle me. I said what I said. I didn't come here caring for any of that anyway.
Elia Martell has every right to not like Lyanna and to have negative feelings toward her even though Lyanna is a woman.
I got a lot of asks about Lyanna. Hope this answers you all because I'm busy these two months.
Edit: I want Elia to have this right. I'm not trying to make people hate Lyanna.
#elia martell#anti rhaegar x lyanna#lyanna isn't faultless#anti rhaegar#elia deserves better#rhaegar targaryen#lyanna stark#a song of ice and fire
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So, the possibly controversial opinion about R/L I mentioned before is that I don't think Rhaegar planned to get Lyanna pregnant to get the third head of the dragon. I think he actually believed he and Lyanna were the heads of the dragon.
From what I can tell, the prevalent fandom idea about Rhaegar's take on the dragon's three heads is that he:
considered his son Aegon the prince that was promised,
believed that Rhaenys is one of the heads of the dragon,
escaped with or kidnapped Lyanna hoping to get the third baby, which would also become the head of the dragon.
As a proof, the fact that Rhaegar named his kids after the Conquerors is usually brought up, and him saying "there must be one more" in Dany's vision, which implies there were two heads already.
But, while this line of thought is reasonable, I don't really believe Rhaegar included children other than Aegon in his beliefs.
Rhaenys was born and named in the period when Rhaegar thought himself to be the prince that was promised. We can probably all agree that he didn't consider his baby daughter as his future partner in saving the world back then. Aemon's wording to me seems to imply the idea about Aegon being the real PTWP came up only after his birth ("later he became persuaded that it was his own son who fulfilled the prophecy, for a comet had been seen above King's Landing on the night Aegon was conceived"), but even if it happened earlier — the dragon still needs two more heads, and I think Rhaegar could believe himself to be one.
And no, there's no requirement for the heads to be siblings and/or lovers (though we most likely will get a love triangle between the dragonriders bc Martin loves this shit). Dany makes this guess because Jorah repeatedly references Aegon and his sisters when they talk about her visions in ACoK and ASoS:
"The three heads were Aegon and his sisters." (ACoK, Daenerys V)
"Rhaenys and Visenya were Aegon's wives as well as his sisters. You have no brothers, but you can take husbands." (ASoS, Daenerys I)
However, when Aemon realises that Dany is the PTWP, he laments being too old and weak to be the head of the dragon. It's pretty clear he wishes not to marry his great-great-niece but to guide and support her. Rhaegar could envision himself playing a similar role to his son: to help him fulfill the prophecy, perhaps to fight alongside him in the future great battle.
Now to why I think Rhaegar didn't want to get a baby from Lyanna to complete the family team but saw her as another head of the dragon. Mostly because their connection has started at the Harrenhall tourney, before Aegon (or the idea of him being the actual promised prince) was even born. So there wouldn't be any necessity for Rhaegar to look for another mother for his child. If the idea to steal Lyanna away started to form here, he was looking for a partner for himself.
Also I just think they were genuinely in love, however egoistical and reckless it was of them (mainly of him, of course). For Rhaegar to completely forget any decorum or political concerns and give the flower crown to Lyanna right in front of Elia, he had to be really impressed by her. And Lyanna at Harrenhall was protecting the weak and (most likely) fighting as the mystery knight, the one whose shield Rhaegar brought back to the castle. And she cried over his song, but again, was fierce when her little brother tried to tease her about it. He had to be at least partly impressed by Lyanna's nonconformity. All this has markings of a romance (especially if you read other Martin's works), just as Lyanna holding that damn flower crown even on her deathbed. And romance is more likely to be about them wanting to be heroes together, not to get a child to play supporting role to their half-brother.
#my post#also got basically confirmed it was a love story so#asoiaf#rhaegar targaryen#lyanna stark#rhaegar x lyanna#i have almost negative level of interest in these two but here i am lol
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why do you infantilize Lyanna like she doesn't know her own mind? she's already a grown woman if we go by the standards of Westeros. you might as well say Daenerys ordering the torture of the daughters is done under duress. or joffrey was just a misguided boy in the end. He's even younger than Lyanna. Ygritte would have slit Jon's throat when they were alone if she really wanted to. same with Arya if she married Ramsay. it's in the text that is what they would do and they parallel Lyanna. don't you think the author was trying to tell us that Rhaegar did not rape Lyanna?
again i say your justification in text does not exist.
everything you are mentioning isn’t even remotely similar to what lyanna went through! joff, dany, robb, they are LEADERS making MILITARY CHOICES that involve killing, torturing, burning crops, sacking cities, and harassing peasantry. lyanna is third born, not in any sort of leadership position, and makes a dumb choice for reasons we don’t have any context for. this is like saying alys harroway is responsible for the shitty decisions maegor makes since she agreed to marry an already married man. i’m also not reiterating the arya point beyond - go reread her chapters. seriously, go reread her riverlands arc and watch her, gendry, and hot pie get their asses handed to them over and over again and then tell me that she would be capable without any magical help of killing ramsey.
and think about what you are you saying here - does this mean ramsey never raped jeyne poole because she didn’t kill him? does this mean rhaella was never raped by aerys, because she didn’t kill him? is daenerys not a rape victim, because in order to cope with the horror that was her life married to drogo, she forced herself to fall in love with him and mourns his death? was naerys not almost literally raped to death by aegon, all because she was too sickly to kill him? in the show, alicent is 15 when she marries viserys - are you saying this was fine actually, because according to westerosi standards she was basically a woman grown? sansa parallels lyanna too - does this mean joffrey never abused her, because she romanticizes him in her head for a while?
also, do you want to know ygritte never actually slits jon’s throat (after losing a fight to him, because sometimes you just lose a fight, a fact you have very pointedly ignored to make this silly point)? it’s because jon is nice to her! he doesn’t, for example, keep her under constant watch in a tower guarded by three of the most elite knights in all of westeros, until she dies of a birthing fever while screaming out for tormund to come save her!! we have like three lines of dialogue from lyanna and not a one is about rhaegar! you are citing a source that does not exist!!
and i am ending with - i do not give a single solitary shit that lyanna was considered a grown adult at 16 by westerosi standards. drogo’s marital rape is acceptable by westerosi standards. robert’s abuse of cersei is acceptable by westerosi standards. what EYE think the author is telling us is that sometimes princes do not have the best interests of their people at heart, and sometimes little girls will romanticize the terrors they experience so they can get through the day. what EYE think is that dany, sansa, and jeyne, all very young girls who are married off to powerful men with no choice, all think of killing themselves to escape their lives. because 14, 15, 16, is the age of a CHILD and not an adult.
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to deny that Daenerys is a clear candidate for the role of Azor Ahai/TPTWP, and to state that the only real Azor Ahai will be Jon Snow, people like to use an argument related to Rhaegar and prophecy. allegedly, Rhaegar ran away with Lyanna because of the prophecy, because he believed that their child would turn out to be the Promised Prince, that because of this, Rhaegar provoked Robert's Rebellion, that Rhaegar ordered the pregnant Lyanna to be guarded at all costs, and if after all this Azor Ahai turns out not to be Jon, then this allegedly would not make any sense.
let's miss the fact that before the book comes out, we can't be 100% sure what really happened between Rhaegar and Lyanna, what were the motives of Rhaegar, etc. the theory that this is related to prophecy makes a lot of sense, given Rhaegar's fascination with prophecy, but it's by- it's just a theory. I don't want to remember the HBO adaptation, but if believe it (we won't do that), then Rhaegar ran away with Lyanna only because of love. no other motive other than "love" was mentioned, even the theory that Rhaegar was motivated by a prophecy was not confirmed in the show.
anyway let's just take it on faith that Rhaegar did what he did because he believed that TPTWP would be born from their union with Lyanna. this does not change the fact that Dany is still the most likely Azor Ahai, who fulfilled literally every point of the prophecy. but now it looks even more interesting.
Rhaegar ran away with Lyanna and provoked Robert's rebellion, which destroyed the entire Targaryen House because he believed it would lead to the birth of TPTWP. He believed that TPTWP would turn out to be his son, but the prophecy is insidious, remember? Before that, Rhaegar thought first of himself, then of his son from Elia. The actions of Rhaegar, which he performed to fulfill the prophecy, led to the fact that pregnant Rhaella, along with eight-year-old Viserys, were forced to flee to Dragonstone, and in the greatest storm in the history of Westeros, Daenerys Stormborn was born, born among the smoke and salt.
Because of what Rhaegar did, his dynasty was destroyed. Daenerys and her abusive older brother were forced to survive on the streets until she was sold into sexual marital slavery to Khal Drogo so that Viserys could get an army and recapture the Iron Throne from the man who took it from the Targaryen dynasty because Rhaegar took Lyanna from this man. At the wedding with Khal Drogo, Daenerys was presented with three dragon eggs. she entered the funeral pyre with them, seeing the bleeding star, and woke up the dragons from the stone.
Daenerys has always been underestimated. she was never considered a worthy candidate. Viserys sold her to a Dothraki to make himself king, Illyrio has been secretly working all this time for the ascent of the Young Griff, and he certainly did not even think that even if Daenerys survives, she will become a powerful queen in her own right. would it be not surprising that Rhaegar would sweep her aside and not even take her into the equation, believed that TPTWP would be his son? because "no one thought about the girl, a prince was promised, not a princess." but again Daenerys deceived the man's expectations.
#daenerys targaryen#daenerys stormborn#azor ahai#the prince that was promised#the princess that was promised#tptwp#a song of ice and fire#asoiaf#asoiaf speculation
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Hello. I've seen you answer an ask about Lyanna Stark. It's rare to see people point faults in her. Usually, they say Rhaegar is to blame, and Lyanna's age dismiss her actions. Even those who say she was rickless still go back to say anyone who points out her mistakes is misogynistic. What do you think of this say? Should we really not talk about it? Is Elia having negative feelings toward her that taboo and un-adult like? I have mixed feelings. I read many posts that defend her and that as long as you are young/child, you don't get blamed, but the thing is, I feel that it's not the actual reason. I feel that they just want to reject her mistakes and use the age and gender as an excuse to make the opposite person feel like an asshole for pointing out that a young girl carries some responsibility. And in a scenario where she and Rhaegar lived, I feel she would still be with him, and that just feels selfish and inconsiderate toward Elia. Is it really that bad to dislike a young person? Was all she did because of naivety? Because to me, she wasn't naive in that aspect (love doesn't change a man's nature). What do you think of her? I really don't understand how she is liked that much as nothing but victim. Sometimes, it feels forced other times self insert or uncare. I feel it's all to the hype George gives her from being remembered to having a rare flower as her motif to being jon's mother and Arya's aunt and being Rhaegar's love. Or am I being too emotional about what I see as justice? I wish to hear your thoughts.
I do think that Rhaegar bears more responsibility than Lyanna, both because of his age and because the exact circumstances around how she left with him remain unclear. But honestly, I feel far more sympathy for Elia in this entire ordeal. She was a woman of color who suffered greatly because of this situation, and a far more interesting character if you ask me. That matters to me more than what people assume about Lyanna's motivations, especially the idealized "fanon" version.
If Lyanna went willingly, her youth can explain and justify some of her decisions, but I find it unfair to excuse all her choices as a result of her age because fans certainly don't extend the same generous view to Jon (14 years old), Daenerys (13 years old), Sansa (11 years old), Robb (16 years old), Myrcella (10 years old), Arya (11 years old), etc, all of whom struggle with difficult decisions around the same age or even younger. I think it’s disingenuous to absolve her of the weight of what happened when these characters and many more aren't afforded the same grace.
Lyanna fans and Lyanna/Rhaegar shippers face a dilemma. Either she went and stayed willingly even after knowing about what was happening – making her a hypocrite for running off with a married man after her whole discourse about Robert and a pretty selfish horrible person given the brutal murder of her brother and father, never mind the civil war that followed it – OR they must accept Rhaegar held her captive once her initial feelings changed after knowing about her brother and father/ Rhaegar lied to her and never told her the truth about what happened because he knew she would leave his ass. That destroys their idealized image of a loving prince, and destroys the perfect impossible predestined love story they made up about these two. They can't have it both ways, but they sure try.
But this is all beating around the bush. Let's be real here about why Lyanna (and Rhaegar/Lyanna as a couple) have a somewhat significant fandom for the amount of development they have in the actual text. The reasons are: 1) she's white, and 2) she's a blank slate for self-projection. Far more interesting characters and couples (cough Nettles and Daemon cough) exist with similar levels of textual development and don't get nearly the same attention. That speaks volumes. Lyanna and Rhaegar are a blank slate where they can paint whatever they want, as long as they can ignore the more uncomfortable parts and the ramifications of their story.
This bleeds into how Elia is treated by much of the fandom. It boils down to racism. Were the racial dynamics reversed, the fandom response to these women would be fundamentally VERY different. Just look at how Nettles/Daemon are treated compared to Rhaenyra for further proof. What's the difference there in the dynamic? A married prince meets a girl and falls in love with her, abandoning his wife and children for her. You don't see fandom contorting themselves into saying that Rhaenyra deserved it, that she had it coming, rejoicing in her death, gloating about how she went down. And Rhaenyra was actually a terrible person. Elia was nothing but a good woman, who was married off to a prince and paid a brutal price for his lack of care and abandonment, suffering until the end of her life and dying in one of the most horrible ways I've read about in this series. And yet she's demonized. Again. Racism.
The truth is, her fandom project their own desires onto Lyanna. They love the "not like other girls tm" idea of her, they love the pick me girl energy of her story, and she fits the bill for their self-inserts. The misogyny runs deep even among those who considers themselves her fans or shippers of the couple, and they don't even realize it.
My dislike of her is a lot influenced by her fanon version, because the truth is that there isn't enough material for me to actually care about canon Lyanna outside of the tragedy that was her life. Canon wise she might be interesting and maybe a character I would enjoy, but the truth is that there isn't enough there. And if I have to care about characters who have that little textual development, I find other characters such as Elia, Ashara Dayne, Nettles, etc, much more interesting, engaging and worth of my time
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I love LOVE your rhaelya thoughts. rhaelya hunts the narrative and the characters, more in daenerys, arya and jon. but jon, oh, jon :(. bby boy thinks that his mother did not love him, but lyanna's last words and thoughs were for him "promise me ned, promise me" probably to protect him forever but couldn't, and that is why ned feels like he failed. and rhaegar, while he is most and foremost paralleled to dany, jon has number of things from him. the truth of the parentage is gonna be a conflict from him, but i truly believe that he will love having a mother that loved him and that his parents loved each other. jon has been dreaming of it for years.
Thank you nonnie!! 💖
Well yes Jon breaks my heart in that situation. And when he finds out who his parents, he will probably believe he is a child born out of rape because that's what all Northerners believe apart from Ned who is dead. It will take a while I think before he finds out who his father really was.
And yes, Rhaegar has been paralleled to Dany mainly that's one of the reasons people hate him so much but there are a lot of parallels with Jon too. That's an interesting question because I've always seen and loved Jon particularly because of how pure of a Stark he was. The brooding, ill-tempered, solemn and grim personality is very characteristic of the North, and of Ned. Jon is a great swordsman like Ned, he is honourable like Ned and he has the Northern looks, dark hair and grey eyes. In all sorts and purposes he's a true Stark. BUT, I can't help but feel that the comparison between Rob's and Jon's looks was kind of weird:
"Jon was of an age with Robb, but they did not look alike. Jon was slender where Robb was muscular, dark where Robb was fair, graceful and quick where his half brother was strong and fast."
So slender, dark, graceful and quick. Now the graceful part is weird. Northerners are not really that graceful, let's say that's not their trademark. Of course you can say Lyanna was probably graceful, but was she really? She was basically a tomboy like Arya, she was very pretty but I don't know if "graceful" would be the first word one would use to describe her. In Westeros, which House is particularly defined by gracefulness? Well, you guessed it. Especially Rhaegar was said to be very graceful and slender ("long fingers" etc etc the whole Targ software). So yeah we have that. Also personality wise, well, Jon has a trait that was very characteristic of Rhaegar specifically, the guy knows how to create a strong impression on people. Jon befriends Tyrion on the spot, he is very influential in the Knight's watch, he became Lord Commander at such a young age, women love him etc. Rhaegar was loved by smallfolk, Cersei was completely enamoured with him, Barristan remembers him fondly still, Jorah calls him the last dragon, he haunts Jaimie's dreams, he left a big impact on people. But then again, Lyanna did too, so I guess he got it from both his parents. Also the way Rhaegar was born in grief parallels Jon's very tragic birth and the shadow that was cast on him for his whole life for being a bastard. That's also very specific.
So the "promise me Ned" line confuses me a lot. For a long time I believed that Lyanna just asked Ned to burry her in Winterfell because the first time the phrase is mentioned in the book the context is clear.
"I was with her when she died," Ned reminded the king. "She wanted to come home, to rest beside Brandon and Father." He could hear her still at times. Promise me, she had cried, in a room that smelled of blood and roses. Promise me, Ned. The fever had taken her strength and her voice had been faint as a whisper, but when he gave her his word, the fear had gone out of his sister's eyes. Ned remembered the way she had smiled then, how tightly her fingers had clutched his as she gave up her hold on life, the rose petals spilling from her palm, dead and black".
The main problems with this is 1) why was Lyanna afraid for a simple wish as to be buried at her home and 2) why does that line keep haunting Ned throughout AGOT? He recalls that line so many times at seemingly irrelevant situations and it's weird because Lyanna apparently got her death wish. Why would GRRM insist so much on that particular line if it was something that was already settled forever? Sansa reminds him of that, he sees that in his nightmares, then Robert himself reminds him of that line when he says the exact same words before he dies. And what did Robert want Ned to promise? Well, that he will have a specific funeral feast for him, and that he will try to protect Daenerys' life. Lol.
We don't know what this line means, but it probably refers to Jon. We'll never know for sure because we ain't getting the books 😂
#asoiaf#got#I'm on my Rhaelya bullshit again#rhaegar x lyanna#Rhaelya#rhaegar targaryen#lyanna stark#jon snow#ned stark#aspa rambles
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Where do you stand on Rhaegar and Lyanna?
whew! saying where do i "stand" is pretty compromising esp when it's about one of the most if not thee controversial issue of asoiaf. my stand is not solid, but i used to be pretty straightforward about it: i hated it. rhaegar humiliated elia, he kidnapped 15 yo lyanna and forced her to have his child alone and away from her family. there was nothing romantic about it and to this day i really don't like the r + l = j theory even if i know it's true.
the thing is, i haven't read the books in years but i've been able to look at the story from other angles in the years since and while i don't hate it anymore (i never blamed lyanna i always hated rhaegar lol) i still think it's not as romantic as people think. it IS capital R Romantic, because yeah, it has everything, the romance and the tragedy but to me it's not some deep great love between the characters.
it's my opinion both rhaegar and lyanna used the other. from lyanna's pov rhaegar is a hero from the songs coming to save her from robert (lyanna cried for rhaegar's son, she def thought of him well). he might have told her about the prophecy and convinced her it was best to leave everyone for a little while, but to her leaving robert and reappearing later as ruined was what she wanted, just a way to escape forever from both him and her father. maybe she though she could later live with ned or benjen. and well, everything got out of control and i think she was incredibly lonely in the toj and disillusioned by the end. as for rhaegar, lyanna was a means to an end. i do think he admired her valour while in harrenhal and might have thought she would understand or at least go along with the prophecy esp bc she was of the north and knew the legends. he put all his affairs in order and left, but like i said everything must have gone out of control pretty soon that he had to leave her alone, same as with elia and the kids. to me rhaegar stopped caring about his reputation and what people thought of him a long time ago, esp when he could've gone into the mindset that nothing mattered when he or aegon had to save the world soon.
my stand is that it's tragic, it's sad. i don't see it as a romance. i see it as two people wanting to find something in the other and utterly losing control of the situation. it might be romantic to some! but in this particular instance, it's not to me because it fits perfectly with the deconstruction of the Romantic tropes germ plays with: the knight is not chivalrous, the beautiful lady is not gentle, the lovers from legend were not in love. it's there with lyanna birthing a child when rhaegar has been death for weeks and she's dying. here's the culmination of the prophecy and of all the targaryen dynasty and he's a bastard. he'll never know his name, he'll never know why his parents did all that and he probably will never want the whole of his legacy.
thanks for reading!
#ask#Anonymous#i don't hate rhaegar now it's fine btw i understand him better but he's not my fave#i think the same of rhaegar. he's a tragic figure to me. a pale ghost of his dynasty. having to become a warrior for a prophecy. did he eve#want to do all that? i feel like he was just following the steps#i know he was apparently obsessed with it but it's not the same as liking#rhaegar targaryen#lyanna stark#valyrianscrolls
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I saw your brienne lyanna parallel post, and it reminds me of a meta I've read in which OP compares jaime-brienne-cersei to rhaegar-lyanna-elia. It interests me because it has many parallels than i thought, though I'm highkey sure the former's fates won't be the same as the latter. What do you think?
Rhaegar and Lyanna's story was a classic chivalric romance up to and including a tragic ending. Jaime and Brienne's story is a bit of a screwball romantic comedy mixed with chivalric romance.
Rhaegar was married to Elia in an arranged political marriage and while there was fondness they weren't romantically in love. He pursues a relationship with Lyanna with there possibly being romantic love as he was impressed by her act of chivalry defending Howland in a tourney.
Cersei is the royal in an arranged political marriage maintaining an adulterous relationship with Jaime and although there is arguably some romantic love from at least Jaime, it involved a lot of sexual manipulation on her part. Jaime eventually grows after the loss of his hand, and comes to realize the truth about Cersei and their relationship to the point at the end of AFFC, he has officially broken up with her, symbolized by throwing her plea for help in the fire. He falls for Brienne, seeing in her the ideal knight he aspired to as a boy.
Both Rhaegar and Lyanna and Jaime and Brienne's relationships lasted through a terrible war. All three people involved in the former died as Rhaegar dies in battle, followed by Elia's horrific rape-murder and Lyanna dying from the complications of childbirth. Cersei like Elia is destined to die along with all her children, and I don't think Jaime will die in battle but he will likely die strangling Cersei while she takes the sword from his belt, the thing he had that she always wanted, and mortally wounds him.
Lyanna survived long enough to give birth to Jon at the end of the war. I think Brienne will survive the war, and unlike Lyanna will survive the series, and she will give birth to a son by Jaime. Just as Jon likely will be the series' King Arthur, Jaime and Brienne's child would be the series' Galahad, the bastard son by Lancelot who becomes the most perfect of all knights.
#jaime x brienne#jaime lannister#brienne of tarth#brienne the beauty#rhaegar x lyanna#rhaegar targaryen#lyanna#lyanna stark#cersei#queen cersei
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Hello! Concerning the last anon, this line is interesting to me:
"As the year waned, [Princess Rhaenyra] brought forth a small but robust son, a pale princeling with dark purple eyes and pale silvery hair. She named him Aegon. Prince Daemon had at last a living son of his own blood…"
Do you think this reffers only to baby Aegon as Daemon's first son, or can also be seen as Daemon wanting a son of his and Rhaenyra's blood (as Rhaenyra was "his own blood"/Targaryen), and Daemon always wanted to marry her?
Hi there 😊 and is my usual, sorry for this huge delay.
I have to admit I never read it as anything more than baby Aegon being Daemon's first son. I mean I think usually the simplest answer is the correct one - this is how I understand the world and I'm not too keen on very elaborate theories - but I won't lie.
I love it!
Because yes, I am a Daemyra shipper ❤️ and I (unlike others lurking around) have plenty to show for it and don't need to swear to prove my point. I do love the idea of Daemon wanting not only to have a son, but also to have one with his and Rhaenyra's blood because yes, she was he OG woman he wanted to marry - call it lust for the throne, call it lust for her, call it both, call it love - but the fact that he wanted to marry her is agreed by both Eustace and Mushroom, and indeed, he did so the moment he was free (and freed Rhaenyra for himself - as he should 😏).
And if you believe everything in F&B is a lie I don't know why you read it, but don't go to Ryan for the truth since like noted by George himself (and since I can read I don't need to pretend to be him or that "he told me"), but also several people working with him that wrote "The World and Ice and Fire" and "Rise of the Dragon", nothing said in redacted, unless confirmed by George, is canon, and there are two canons: g*t and asoiaf -> George's only concern is that redacted doesn't change anything too relevant at the start of G*T since in that universe - g*t - things have to make sense.
Also, so there is no doubt, I do believe Aegon was Daemon's absolute favourite child (like I mentioned many times). And the Year of the Red Spring is my favourite moment/period <3
Note: If George was a more romantic writer I would say that maybe this could be a possibility, but for the most part he's just... he's just not someone who pays a lot of attention to romance or even writes it very convincingly -> in my opinion. I think he did a better job overall in F&B than in the main ASOIAF books where... I think the only people he convinced me about were Jaime (to a point), Tyrion, Jon and Ygritte, Ned and Cat (but in a very duty driven way - I saw a more genuine feeling on Ned's part), and Rhaegar and Lyanna at the top of my head. So I don't give him this much credit. I definitely think romance and romance scenes are a weak spot of his -> Clearly I still love his work though, because I am reading it and spending what free time I have on it, but romance wise it's not very good.
Hey more for us fanfic writers to do ❤️
PS: This answer only concerns asoiaf Daemon Targaryen and asoiaf Rhaenyra Targaryen
#rhaenyra targaryen#daemon targaryen#canon rhaenyra targaryen#canon daemon targaryen#aegon iii targaryen#canon aegon iii targaryen#the rogue prince#the princess and the queen#fire and blood#the year of the red spring#daemon x rhaenyra#rhaenyra x daemon#popcorn answers#daemyra#canon daemyra
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Hi, sorry for this, but I just need to rant about this, or I'll explode. Feel free to delete this 🩷
I saw somewhere it was written that Elia Martell deserved her fate while Lyanna and Rhaegar were just in love and deserved to be happy...
THIS PISSED ME OF SO BADLY LIKE WHAT THE HELL !!!
Lyanna was 16 and even if we overlooked the part where she’s a westerosi woman at that age you know it's wrong to run away from your home to be with a married dude who's got two kids !
As for Rhaegar, I believe he was as mad as his father. leave your kind, beautiful wife and two kids for a 16 year old girl who's about to get married herself !? Yeah, there's definitely something wrong with your brain !
Also, that person painted Lyanna in such an innocent light like I do not believe she was that dumb she knew Robert would be furious, plus her father and brother's did this girl ever consider them ? The answer is no. Lyanna didn't want to marry Robert, and when Rhaegar showed interest, she decided to run away with his stupid ass !
The biggest victim of Rhaegar/Lyanna actions is ELIA MARTELL AND HER CHILDREN !!!
I can agree with Rhaegar being the most responsible for all the shit that happened, but at the same time, I don't believe Lyanna was just a little girl who fell in love with him.
And Yes, Lyanna is considered a child in our timeline, but in her universe and timeline, she was definitely not a child who didn't know how things worked given that she was also a noble woman and educated as well !
hello kitty 🐱🐱🐱
yeah, some rhagar/lyanna stans would do anything to justify rhaegar's actions because they have it in their minds that he was this fairytale prince charming. and, to be fair to them, that's how he is mostly presented in the text, heaped in praise and regret (apart from robert obviously but many fans disregard robert's appraisal because they see him as biased)
i don't hold it against people if they have a particularly idealised view of rhaegar, because you never know how much they've actually studied the text or thought about this issue in the first place. but if one does engage with the fandom on a general basis and reads meta/takes, it's very difficult not to eventually interact with critical analyses of rhaegar. so, even if his story didn't ring any alarm bells from the start, for whatever reason, if you do start thinking about the practicalities, the shadier elements emerge.
leaving all of that aside, if someone were to try and justify rhaegar's actions, then blaming his brutally-murdered wife is not the kind of stance that will win over the fence-sitters 🧍♀️ even if elia were an awful person who made rhaegar's life miserable (though there is no proof of this, on the contrary), then she still wouldn't "deserve" a violent murder and to witness her children being murdered in front of her. you'd think a reasonable person would agree with that, but this is the kind of fandom in which fans tell others to kys because they disagree with their opinion on fictional people, so for them it's only natural that being annoying (or any other some such dumb infraction) is such a huge and problematic crime that can only be sanctioned by death.
so it's like. i feel there are some huge behavioural issues at play here or at least an unhealthy amount of internalised misogyny or bully fantasies that are the real culprits here :))
i've outlined my general opinion of lyanna here for whomever is interested
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Many people like to say Elia and Arthur had something going on either
1-to justify Rhaegar x Lyanna
2-to give some joy to her story.
But honestly, how good can it be? I mean, ship what you want, but I'm talking about that if we imagined it to be a CANON thing, it wouldn't be pleasant due to the events surrounding the canon scenario.
Arthur abandoned her. You can't tell me that a love story with a man who abandons you to help your husband cheat is a great one even if you didn't like your husband. It is still unnerving for the woman.
Yes, I do wish his sad smile is out of guilt for what happened to Elia and her children but still in Jaime's fever dream it was only Rhaegar and Lewyn that talked about Elia and the children.
Arthur talked about killing the king.
I'm not saying this doesn't mean he didn't regret what happened to them. I'm saying it doesn't encourage the idea that there was anything between them. Which is what I want. Because this will be disgusting of GRRM to do to justify what has been done to her.
Elia went as a child on a tour to Starfall. Perhaps she could have been matched with Arthur, but most likely his older brother. Since she was the princess, it was only normal to look for the firstborn child who would become lord one day.
Whatever happened in Starfall didn't end up in any agreement since Elia's mother tried after that to match her with Jaime.
What we know is that in the end, Elia likes Baelor Hightower the most during that tour.
And why didn't Arthur just stay with Elia instead of becoming a kingsguard before her marriage if there was anything truly between them? It doesn't make sense. Are you telling me he abandoned her for kingsguard as tennagers? Or that he decided to fall in love with her after he became a kingsguard? Still no sense.
Also, I firmly believe and I could be wrong that Arthur's character will be that he was not the type to break his oath easily to love a woman. I have feeling he was a hardass. Jon Connington already hinted that. Besides, he was described as someone who took his vows seriously.
Again, I don't mind the shipping nor the fanfictions. Some fanarts are really cute, and I admit I read some and enjoyed it.
But in the CANON scenario, how much better was he than Rhaegar toward Elia? The best scenario would be that he wanted to return but couldn't because Rhaegar's place would be discovered in a case where Rhaegar only ran to save lyanna, then *accidentally* decided to take things further.
Besides, why would Rhaegar let Elia have a secret lover when he will be one day a king? This will affect him as a king in the eyes of the noble men. Why would Elia or Arthur risk that, too?
And even if they were star-crossed lovers that can only love each other from afar....doesn't the "my best friend is married to the woman I love and is having children with her one after another despite her delicate health but he is a good man who will take good care of her" sounds awful?
Why would Arthur be liked as a lover in the CANON scenario where he let Rhaegar harm Elia after using her to the point that she could die if she got pregnant again then he let Rhaegar humilate her again with Lyanna all so Rhaegar might agree that he can be with Elia???
He sounds too lame like this. Ok, grey, but extremely lame man and character. Too lame for that great swordman.
Yes, the characters are supposed to be grey, but honestly, how are we supposed to like something unlikable? Just because it's grey doesn't mean it's likable. Arthur isn't supposed to be a horrible man as far as I glimpsed.
I mean, Euron, for example, is supposed to be a horrible, cruel man, and we are supposed to like him as a horrible, cruel character.
But things like, Rhaegar is supposed to be likable as good grey character when he did certain things that normally for many humans they make him unlikable or R x L is supposed to be likable despite all the things of how they came to be. All feel unlikable because of the contradiction. It's not about greyness. They just don't match their intended purpose of view.
It's like the famous saying of "Daemon is so grey that he is between good and bad. And his morals are so grey"
Seriously, this guy has a very dark shade.
I'm not team black nor team green, so don't come to fight. I only observe the characters.
So what is there to be liked about this ship IN THE CANON scenario? Not in fanfictions where he actually returned or refused leaving her.
If there is anything I would like to know. Do tell me.
I prefer Arthur to be regretful about how he abandoned his princess and her children greyness. This seems more likable grey than lame Arthur, who left the woman he loves to Rhaegar's whims THEN abandoned her and her children alone for almost 2 years in danger to help her husband humiliate her further for prophecy and his not like other girls 15 years old girl, dark lame greyness. The previous makes Arthur more likable as character.
Again, I don't mind the ship as long as it is not Canon. Because it will be a disgusting way that shows Rhaegar as less guilty in the eyes of many just because she loved another, so he looks less accountable for abandoning them. When even in such a cringy scenario, he is not. Even if Elia loved another/didn't love him.
In conclusion, all of the above is why Arthur can not be used to justify R X L nor to make Elia's story better or less sad in the CANON events. And why it's not realistic and impossible that DORNISH Elia committed treason and very unlikely that she had even an emotional affair.
#elia martell#asoiaf#anti rhaegar x lyanna#game of thrones#anti rhaegar#elia deserves better#lyanna isn't faultless#rhaegar targaryen#a song of ice and fire#anti arthur dayne#arthur dayne#grrm criticism#grrm critical#anti grrm
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idk if u wanna chat about asoiaf but do you wanna share any burning thoughts on some of the popular theories? personally, i believe that f!Aegon is the real Aegon and i don't think Jon is legitimate, no matter what the show said.
yeah I’ll talk about asoiaf any day. I disagree with you about fAegon, I think he’s Illyrio’s son. There are clues to this I don’t have off hand. I think JonCon has somethings in his chapters that indicate doubt, I’d have to refresh my memory. However, I will agree that he it might end up being irrelevant if the people want to belief it. This may be Dany’s downfall and might be the reason for whatever Dany’s “mad queen” story, if that’s what’s going to happen. Meaning Dany is not mad, but tragically is believed to be when the people embrace Aegon before she gets there.
Jon not being legitimate is fair. I mean, not to dispute R+L because that’s telegraphed in the narrative, but the idea that any child of Lyanna’s has any claim to the Iron Throne whether or not Rhaegar married her is goofy. He was already married and the Faith doesn’t recognize bigamy. Not to mention he may not have married her. Although some fans expect a romantic story for them, I don’t. Yes, it will be revealed that Lyanna wasn’t taken screaming and kicking out of her bed like Robert believed, but she was a young teen being seduced by a powerful man who had become obsessed with Targaryen mysticism. Rhaegar loving Lyanna doubtful, I think Rhaegar saw a means to an end with Lyanna. Even if he believed he loved her, or if he was just flat out manipulating, it doesn’t matter. I think the story will bear out that Rhaegar is not someone to lionize, which fits nicely with plenty of themes Martin has been writing towards.
However! The North might be willing to legitimize him as a Stark because of Lyanna :) Do people want a feeal Manderly-backed five year old as their king, or Lyanna’s lost son hardened by the Nights Watch and legitimized by Robb’s will with kings blood in him to boot? Or perhaps neither once Sansa emerges. The northern conspiracies are what I’m most excited to see next book :)
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