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randomnameless · 2 days

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Genuine question, not trying to start a fight, why do you get so upset about gods and churches being presented in a negative light in fictional works?

No pbs!

I guess it's a mix of being too common, too forced and having, in general, the cast use common tropish arguments to fight /defeat them.

I rant a lot about this game, but take TS where we have three sort of factions opposing each other, and each are supposed to suck. Who is the faction who never receives any "positive traits" or "pet the dog" moment?

The game force fed us a scene where an Aesfroti soldier - when Aesfrost is depicted as a highly militarised nation with a cult of personality towards their current ruler, that invaded the protag's home and slaughtered several civilians and NPCs in the process - say goodbye to his wife and kids before going to "war" to defend his land against, well, the protags who are invading it to kill their warmongering leader.

As force-fed as this scene was, it, I believe at least, tried to tell us that even the Aesfrosti who pillaged villages and killed their inhabitants are humans, and care about their loved ones, sure it's corny, but it's all about not deshumanising any party.

When we attack Hyzante? Niet, zilch, nothing. No similar scene where random soldiers, or NPCs, worry about what is going on and if they're going to die when their wall has been breached. They just, don't exist in this context.

I think the cherry on the cake is the Golden Route scene, where, apparently, nationalists Aesfrosti decide to turn back against their ultra charismatic leader because, uh, he "lied" when he declared the war and used a false pretense, so the soldiers and people who were butchering babies and invading a city where people were preparing a marriage apparently now have morals and rebel.

There's no similar scene for Hyzante when the cast reveals that the teachings of their Goddess were made up and salt wasn't exclusively given to them by divine intervention, because rock salt exists everywhere. Sure it would be a bit weird and forced that people thinking they're chosen ones and looking down on everyone else suddenly, hm, don't break down when their entire system of belief is shattered, but hey, if the Aesfrostian Gregor can have morals after washing his hands of all this Glenbrookian blood, why shouldn't religious npc #55 not make the same heel face turn?

And then, we have the slavery/human experimentation plot - in general, when TS tries to give nuance, they more or less explain/justify why something that "sucks" is done, it's basically Silvio's character.

Aesfrost' Gustadolph manages to push his "freedom" mentality because his land is a harsh place where people are desperate to survive, salt smuggling is reprehensible, but it's the only way to give some to the ones who cannot afford it. Of course is everyone is free, no one is because, as Gustadolph puts it, they're basically free to die for his ambitions.

Hyzante? Follows a racist creed where Rozellians have to pay for some great sin, and are slaved away in a lake to recover salt until they die. It's, later, justified by Hyzante wanting to keep its salt monopoly else they don't have anything, and wanting to curb down the Rozelle people because they know about the exitence of rock salt (and I guess getting free workers to harvest salt from the lake + having state enemies make his own population docile/not willing to rebel ?).

And then, we have the human experimentations, that are just done for, uhh, Idore's lol. When Hyzante is known for its "advanced medicine" and we could have had the usual dilemna of, idk, having those humans experimentations used to develop this medicine that is reknown in the world (idk, sacrificing a Rozellian to save someone else's life?) - it's not the angle the devs picked. Rozellians are sacrificed to power up an idol, Idore wants to control the world through his idol and soft power (compared to Gustadolph's hard power) and manipulates his people (just like Gustadolph) to do so.

The two are very similar, but who is the final boss? Complete with a transformation in an eldritch monster? The war-mongering imperialist or the jaded old man who is leading de facto a religion?

Hopefully there's the entire "human experimentations for no other purpose than the lols" to settle them apart.

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I recently watched Dune, and even if I have some issues with the adaptation, the Bene Gesserit isn't portrayed as "comically" evil-er than the Harkonen Empire, I reckon the comparison isn't adequate, because Dune is multi book series when I'm mostly talking about video games.

Symphonia's church of Martel is a font for the Big Bad (tm) to put in motion his nefarious plans, and yet, through the game, we see how random clergymen use their, uh, religious buildings to help people around. Ultimately Martel herself is reincarnated through plot device and tells the big bad to stop being an ass and the story is less about "church and gods evil" but "big bad distorts Martel/church's teachings and role for his plans because he has a tragic backstory"

(but then Symphonia ends with the biggest whitewashing from every Tales I've played for its big bad so I'll stop talking about it because otherwise I'm going to be salty).

Abyss' church is more or less the same thing - the Church is supposed to help people deal with the fact their verse has "predestination stones" where the future is already written, and in the course of the game, we see how it has several factions and one opposes the group (who has the pope as a NPC!) - but it's not a story about "gods bad church BaD".

I remember playing Suikoden Tierkreis a long time ago, and while the game seemed to go through familiar "church bad gods bad" route and we end with defeating a god-like entity... I pretty much loved the twist that, in a game that relied on alternate dimensions/universe, the god-like entity was actually the protag if he made different choices!

In those games, if you fight a religious body and someone pretending to be a God or what not - it's not because people fight against an eldritch creature who wants world domination and to erase puny insects, or is the reason why everything goes wrong, but because, at the end, the conflict/fight is ultimately caused by someone, generally a human or at least a non "god like" entity, wanting to destroy the world.

I don't remember if FE was my first JRPG series or not, but I always liked the idea that if the world is doomed in those games and the heroes must prevent said doom, it's not because a god-like being wants to destroy the world, but because people, humans/randoms are the most shitty ones out there.

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As for the "tropes" often used to deride fictional churchs and religious people, well, I will again point to TS - which did a splendid job in the Benedict Route where you smash Hyzante after allying with Aesfrost.

There's one battle where out protags diss Hyzantese because they worship a goddess and have no free will, listening to Her teachings and Her says (the traditional "religious people have no free will and listen to their churches who tell them how to think!") - which is immediately countered by one of those Hyzantese characters asking Serenor if he's not the same, but instead of blindly listening to a Goddess, blindly follows Benedict. And it ends with the final chapter title referencing automatons/puppets : who is that title talking about ? The fake "idol" Idore created, or the fake "king" Benedict created?

Anyways, the usual "religions people have no free will because their church/religion tells them how to think" trope reeks of r/atheism and the double standard - bar in this route of TS, but I guess, in TS itself in the Roland route! - is never called out, blindly following a charismatic leader is okay, as long as charismatic leader isn't religious?

Regardless of my IRL thoughts about religion, usually those tropes are presented as a "gotcha!" when they are... not at all, but the games/books leave it at that and we're supposed to roll with it.

I'd say it's lazy writing or, as we saw in Naruto, a quick way to end a story without having to dwelve in characters and their motivations : "you're a god/alien/other being and you're bad, so let us do what we want!" - end of the story.

Hopefully some fillers and to an extent, Boruto gave her more meat bar being the 11 hour villain we had to defeat quick and who manipulated the previous sad'n'lonely antagonists - but it still felt rich from Naruto, known for his famous "talk no jutsu" and trying to understand people he's fighting against, to drop the ball with Kaguya, calling her pure malice and ending with some "let us live the way we want" to wrap up the plot so he can wrestle with his boyfriend later on.

In the end, we often end up with "religion bad bcs the big bad manipulates people through it", as if those mangas/animes/vg never have other examples of charismatic people not using religion to manipulate their randoms/people or "gods bad they should let humans do what they want" when we've read/seen/played through various, uh, really fucked-up shit humans did - but on their own! and ultimately, but it's more in fandom spaces, with have Projection 101.

TLDR : church/religion/gods are too often used in those works as the ultimate scapegoat to either wrap up a story in a rushed ending or to pretend to have "nuance" but still have a common enemy where all the "nuanced" characters can grow/be whitewashed and side together against that "common enemy".

Just like in all things I guess, I prefer when something isn't painted as purely negative and all of the positive traits are erased because there is a need for a perfect scapegoat - sure, bring out too much "nuance" and writing/designing a game/manga/anime becomes harder because there's no "clear cut" antagonist, and yet, the one who always gets fucked in this scenario is the religious/church side.

Want a generic stock villain who will destroy the world so the heroes have to fight against them? Just create a "religion" in your setting, and have the big bad either hell bent on resurrecting Chtullu to destroy the world because Chtullu BaD, or have them be the most corrupt piece of shit who manipulate everything in the shadows, so the rest of the world, even the ones who slaughter others bcs they feel like they must start a war, can be whitewashed at the end.

I mean, there's a saying about diverting attention from a fire by starting a bigger one near, or a trope of "aliens made them do it" : who cares if Madara started a continental war and targeted a village full of random civilians he swore to protect because he lost the elections? Did y'know he was manipulated by a woman, I mean, an eldritch thing created by a woman, regarded as a God, who ultimately wanted to get out of her fridge to kill everyone?

Roland must get over his hatred for Aesfrost for barging in his kindgom and killing hundred of his people while they were preparing for a wedding, because hey, Idore is evil and plans on ruling the world through his sham religion!

I'll forever be salty at TS for not giving Kamsell the occasion to rise against Idore, or not even have minor NPCs get the same treatment as Sycras suddenly going all "u lied to me gustadolph so i won't listen to u anymore + sad goodbyes to my wife'n'kids".

Extremism of all kinds can lead to wars/tragedy/fucked up shit - Sure I don't want to get my History lessons in video game medium when I play lol, but what I really don't like is how it feels like depicting "they're extremists because they're religious" feels like the default/easy answer : want a bunch of brainwashed people the heroes must fight against and can't talk no justu their way out of this fight/will fight without looking too BaD? Depict those people as "misguided" members of a corrupt church/believers of a religion, no one will givea fig. If they are instead supporters of a charismatic leader who throws them through the meatgrinder to further their goals? Well, there's no automatic loyalty so either you have to show/depict it on screen, else it can be challenged at key points to demonstrate how those people - who follow the charismatic leader - aren't completely "mindlessly listening to their leader" or how their leader "isn't that bad after all".

#idk if it makes sense anon #replies #anon #i'm not tackling the fandom projected takes anon this is another can of worms #I'm not immune to it far from that #Having grown up in a post 2000s world with some people lit being asked how dare they be religious and all #'religion is the only reason why people do those horrible things' dude are you serious? Did you open a book recently?#TS was really mind boggling about the duality between 'regular' imperialism and 'religious' one #and how one faction got way more care than the other to make a clear cut villain #Also blaming everything on Gods/evil cults etc etc imo is often used to remove agency from people X or Y who start shit #That's why I really liked Fe Jugdral #sure we have nutjobs going to say everything BaD happens because of Loptyr #But DiMaggio seducing Aidean? Danan turning Isaach in a giant brothel? Slavery in the Thracian peninsula?#Dragons in this opus are sitting on the sidelines and only itnervening when one of them starts shit #but otherwise? Humans are allowed to be shitty without blaming 'Gods' for behaving like they did #and they receive their due #From the Tales I've played they mostly avoid this general religion BaD #even if iirc it's one of the plot points in Berseria? who would have guessed lol #I guess I'd say I'm not seriously upset whenever a game/manga ends up with 'akshually the religious faction was the big BaD'#it's just the same canned ravioli again and again #but whenever games/manga/anime try to give some grey morality to antagonists #the ones who always are wrecked are the religious/god-like entities #Is there any room for nuance when one faction has no other reason for doing the things they do bar 'for the lols/bcs i was told to?'#fandom woes

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soldier-poet-king · 17 days

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Ik schadenfreude is bad and mean spirited but also the amnt of delight I am feeling rn. I am not plugged into rap and hip-hop culture, I know very little, but I AM from Toronto and have a parasocial hatred of drake and his inescapability and his social influence on every shitty white boy I went to middle school with. So this is. So delicious

#IM SORRY. ITS SUNDAY I SHOULD BE KIND #but im just. TEAR THE BITCH APART #the duality of fran #i also think the culture of diss tracks is very funny #but idk enough to intelligently comment on it #it feels very academics as per my last email calling eachother out in article titles. a DELIGHT #but ik there is likely cultural conntations im missing

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incorrect-ikevamp-quotes · 8 months

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I need to scream about this event (Friends Like These) because I truly was just. Not expecting the impact it would have--I don't remember if I read this one in Japanese???

I've only gotten the first two stories so far but I just.

Jeanne and Mozart are of course, as adorable as ever; there's no question about that. But Jeanne dropping this line:

"It galls me to sound so much like le Comte, but I am grateful to God that I met you."

I. [prolonged error 404 sounds]. I'm not sure there are words to convey the simultaneous endless wheezing laughter but also AWWWWWWWW energy that consumed me in milliseconds. Wildly oscillating between "LMFAO ah yes, sentimentality? Disgusting I'll drink to that (blasts Bring Me To Life)" and "BECAUSE YOU LOVE HIM DEEP DOWN AND HE LOVES YOU WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH."

I just can't get over how Jeanne says exactly one thing about liking another person and he's like, 'ew dad gave me cooties >:///// how dare he subject me to the mortifying ordeal of hope.' Jeanne I love you. Jeanne I would die for you. Middle schooler with well-meaning stepfather who begrudgingly accepts his kindness and grows for the better, but would rather perish than admit it. I never knew I needed this found family dynamic so freaking bad until I started playing this game. 11/10 I could watch this forever

More Shenanigans below the cut, + the Shakespeare and Comte Event Story:

Also a sidebar because I just can't help myself, I know I've talked about it before but: Mozart and Jeanne's friendship is so endlessly precious to me????? I love how Mozart is so NO I'M NOT NICE REEEEE (turtles) and Jeanne is like :> bestie. It's so damn cute watching Mozart squirm at being exposed for being sweet and Jeanne just truly grateful someone cares about him?????? How much Jeanne and MC dote on Mozart despite being together, how it only strengthens their friendship? Literally I'm over the moon, nobody touch me I'm tender!!! Jeanne deserves to live peacefully without being a tool of the state/bad actors!!!! Mozart deserves to be loved and happy without being defined by his musical success!!!!!

LIKE. Not to be dramatic but I could watch an entire saga of these two being friends and being adorable. Fresh serotonin every single time. Did I know Jeanne was going to share his food? Absolutely. Did I expect MC to think ahead and pack two lunches? Absolutely not. Was I delighted both times? Beyond what you can imagine!!!!!!!

I'm going to stop here at the risk of repeating myself over and over but wow. Jeanne's capacity to see to the very core of people, for better and worse, and how it lets Mozart be meaningfully seen. Mozart's recognition that Jeanne can mean well to a fault, worried that he might be taken advantage of--and how Jeanne can build trust with someone for the first time without being afraid. Can you hear me wailing and bawling

Naturally, I acquired the Comte and Shakespeare one next. Now, I'm gonna be honest, I saw their names together and went "oh dear God. What am I walking into. Why do I hear boss music????" But I gathered my courage (more like I'm just too feral not to gather info abt Comte, but I digress) and experienced something that left me literally on the floor because I just. Did Not Remotely Expect This Series of Events.

So like. It starts off by being pretty normal and cute and I'm like awwww baby boy (oh he's a little fked up actually) giving gifts to dad. I'm sensing an ulterior motive but right now just let me have this. Also adorable that Comte is struck dumb by it, that's really cute I'm taking notes. And then. I was hit with the veritable ANVIL that was these next few lines:

deep breath Okay. Where to begin.

I LOST IT at the implication that Will was like. Holding back from ending Comte's entire life with mere words. WILL????? WILL P L S??????? (lowkey wanted to hear the roast snickers) Why am I sensing a pattern that Comte loves spicy people??? Love this for me

I also started losing my shit the second MC was mentioned and you could just hear the record scratch/kill bill sirens. Comte really out here like "son say WHAT about MC." I can't get over how he's always so ready to throw down for both MC and Sebas at any moment. Anywho, naturally I come to the conclusion that Will was just trying to one-up Comte to mess with him by giving MC gifts. It was the one thing I did anticipate--and, fool that I was--thought it rendered me safe from what happens next.

DEAR READER. DEAR READER I WAS SO WRONG. I WAS SO TERRIBLY WRONG.

BABY GIRL. BABY GIRL ON WHAT LEVEL IS THIS NORMAL BEHAVIOR. I'M LITERALLY CRYING RN?????? THE FACT THAT I CAN'T TELL IF HE'S JUST BEING SILLY GOOFY OR HE LEGITIMATELY MEANS IT OR SOME COMBINATION OF THE TWO????????

Mans out here like "I lost everything in the war (literally) let me spoil my girlboss dream gf in peace. Vlad took everything in the divorce let me have this pls." I just. The mental image of him chasing Will around the house. The potential implications of him doing this to protect them both (I love you Will but you have. Problems). The HILARIOUS AND DUBIOUS qualifier when he says "dressing up MC is nearly my entire reason for living." Comte I love you more than life itself but that does not make this any more normal. What are you doing my beloved vampire jkhlhalfdhjfg 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Also an honorable mention moment, because it was endearing:

Just the img of him wandering around with sparkly eyes and toting home little trinkets for everyone??????? He's so cute, that's the most grandpa behavior I've ever seen. I was chortling when Will was like "sir you made me sit in that cluttered carriage followed by another carriage full of stuff all the way home IT'S TIME FOR REVENGE (affectionate)."

I also love how Comte is like "Do I have a problem? Maybe. Will that stop me? Only when the sun cataclysmically swallows the earth."

Literally half of the members of the house are like "why are you like this" and he just heeheehoos his way out of it. How does he keep getting away with it. Can you tell I love him. Dazai isn't the only clown in this house honks Comte's nose

#ikevamp #ikemen vampire #ikevamp comte #ikevamp saint germain #ikevamp mc #ikevamp mozart #ikevamp jeanne #ikevamp jean #ikevamp shakespeare #man every time i go back to ikevamp its like the first time #idk man the healing from intense trauma and catastrophic overworking just gets to me okay #i wonder if there's just a fundamental ethos to the game that compels me; the idea that genius of any kind is hard-won #that no matter how brilliant someone may seem--there was a cost that may not be apparent at first glance #but they are also just. silly silly guys. mischievous little creachurs #THE DUALITY OF MAN (VAMPIRE?)#im also just endlessly amused by comte's whole “IM NOT UR DAD”#but at the same time him being like “relating to my children emotionally? how about I Give Them This Thing They Like Instead.”#like comte ilysm but that is literally. textbook dad behavior. 0/10 you failed the stealth check #its my comte roasting hours #at the same time trying very hard not to think about the reasons why #namely that he doesn't want to burden everyone with Vlad's beef^TM #i can't help but think about how much keeping his distance is abt protecting them from himself as well #the way he doesn't want to be a burden on anyone else but also yearns so deeply for companionship/connection #how even with mc he frequently notes what she's giving up to be with him/that he's more work than he's worth #:( i wanna hold him my poor sweet mans

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demonzoro · 5 months

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i finally got around to watching trigun stampede! visually it was gorgeous. however, a lot of the emotional beats felt like i missed a step in actually attaching to the character/setting. many times i got the feeling like i should've been emotionally invested but wasn't. the irreconcilable siblingship was fun though i enjoyed the irreconcilable siblingship

#i did just binge it from start to finish #so maybe i need time to process it #or it was better to experience as the episodes were released..?#but yeah idk. i enjoyed the duality of rosa #who liked vash enough but had to think abt her town and her kids and livelihood #but i didn't rlly connect w rollo ... or the twin guns(?) guy. i already forgor his name #wolfwood's childhood friend #visually very fun very cool! i can tell a lot of care went into the visdev #and production. but i feel like the storytelling fell flat for me #✨

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agentark · 1 year

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Jenny Han, To All The Boys I've Loved Before // Brenna Twohy // unknown // Florence + the Machine, "Long & Lost" // J.R.R. Tolkien, The Two Towers // Aelsa Trevelyan, The Fernweh Saga, Book 1 // Euripides, Herakles // unknown // k.tolnoe // Taylor Swift, "Death By A Thousand Cuts" // Haruki Murakami, Norwegian Wood

will you remember me when I'm gone? if we never meet again? if we can't? I'll remember you. I hope I'll see you again.

#on forgetting and remembering and the people we love #on growing up and growing out #of people of places #something something what is grief if not love #when you want to beg and plead w/ someone to come back or to stay but you know you can't so you just ask them to remember you #god I would've been so good at this shit when I was 17 and had folders and folders of quotes saved #trying to figure out what to tag this as for my own cataloguing purposes but also fearing it showing up in search tags #the duality of man #today's to do list included making myself sad about the people and places I've had to leave behind #web weaving #poetry #writing #quotes #lyrics #words #idk if i like this but i had to get the feelings out of my brain #so whatever #I should put this effort into actually journaling offline #I have a migraine i'm just going to post this and stop thinking abt it

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spideyhexx · 21 days

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kit mike faist is doing so much to me i fear that my long standing hatred of blondes has been forever changed by tom playing coryo followed by mike playing art

mike faist is making me giggle kick my feet when I see things of him, it’s bad it’s very bad

#asks #I was also rarely ever into blondes????#wtf????#also I’ve decided I do find Josh O’Connor hot #his personality irl seems so sweet that seeing how fucking cocky and like idk dominant??? he is as patrick it’s just 😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫#love the duality love the acting skills

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queensparklekitten · 9 days

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time princess players how do y'all picture the MCs of every story

like since every set and piece of official art has a different hair colour, length, and style with every picture of them, and sometimes there's descriptions that don't match the images, which one do you go with

and do you make half of them look like your avatar or have your own designs

#dutp #time princess #when playing/viewing it through the ''story traveler'' lens #i often justify the hair colour changes in-universe by headcanoning that it's story kingdom magic that allows you to change your hair colou #by default i make half the mcs look like (taller versions of) me/my avatar (who's designed after me but with purple eyes) to some extent #but there are exceptions #like if the mc isn't white i'm obviously not gonna base her design off myself #except Maybe giving her my/my avatar's hair length #and if a spinoff shows the mc i'll often use that design #i always pictured zoya blonde until the salvia spinoff story came out and showed her with the light brown hair from that one set #it also described zoya as having black eyes which i went with #i didn't have a locked in eye colour headcanon for her before but i didn't really picture her with eyes that dark #probably because none of the album art gave her black eyes #though eye colours tend to be inconsistent in this game #nastia's described with gray eyes but that one album art gives her blue eyes #and on the flipside charlotte's described with blue eyes in one side story but her model doesn't have blue eyes #nor does at least one album art of her #i give virtually every mc long hair just because most of the hairstyles in those sets require it #i always picture cordelia with dark hair and ocean green-blue eyes #like a vivid teal colour. just fits someone whose name means ''daughter of the sea''#and sometimes i have her stop shaving her legs when she becomes a pirate because a) she lives on a boat #and b) representation of her leaving behind that gilded-cage life of fancy etiquette and ''you must become a perfect wife and mother''#in which she did everything society demanded of her at the expense of her own happiness #like yeah after escaping that i Will make cordelia stop shaving her legs. for the symbolism. and the fact that she lives on a pirate boat.#i always give aurora that pastel-almost-white shiny gradient dyed hair #because a) it's in half the sets b) it looks so so so cool c) it looks great next to the companions i ship her with #matches with novi and gives her a light-dark duality with selene's dark purple hair #idk her natural hair colour but i also give her the creepily pale eyes from Silent Night Rebirth #to match the pastel clothes she's so often in. this is not her natural eye colour either. hey that's p clearly a common thing in this city #i strongly doubt that selene's eyes are naturally that bright blueish purple

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ursa-the-stranger · 3 months

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You know, for as (and i cannot say this neutraly enough) mid-teir hazbin hotel is, its vocal cast is the most perfect ive heard? No ones voice is 'alright', they all hit it outta the park.

#hazbin hotel #id give hazbin a solid 6 outta 10 rn (i ca see it gettin better tho. wont be to harsh shes only 10 eps deep)#but all the main casts voices are 10.5/10 #ligitimately all perfect #mimzy is squeaky and fast. angel has a great duality to his voice and both still sound like him #alistor has that radio sharp consonants. vaggie is monotoneish and deep and tired #charlie is bright and happy and husk #husks va is just the best my gOD #i dont even have words for him its PERFECT.#adam and lute too are just stellar voice work. and lucifer and the saraphim #god #idk who was in charge of voice casting but they know their shit

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sunnykeysmash · 1 year

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Ok so, the new trailers got me curious, especially here with the whole... trap thing.

Let's just go on a little chill journey about it together, no strings attached.

So... something I do casually to pass the time while deep in sunny fixation is keyword searching in episode transcripts, to see if there's fun connections I can do. So naturally, I look up "trap", to see where else it comes up outside of Gets Romantic and Flowers for Charlie (the first two episodes that come to my mind when talking about traps).

What I found was an interesting connection between three specific episodes:

Mac is a serial killer

Dennis looks like a registered sex offender

Flowers for Charlie

And I wanna go through it. Kind of in random order because I don't know how to structure this (lmao).

Now, these episodes obviously have come out in seasons throughout the years, with the earliest two on s3, and I'm gonna be talking about things I think might happen in relation to these episodes. Parallels, metatext, about things that haven't aired yet. So I may be wrong. Let's get that out of the way. Usual disclaimer, get out now if you don't like rambling, and I'm not responsible for building anyone's expectations, that is on you. This is how I have my own fun. Let's move on.

But talking about these episodes in such a way requires me to acknowledge macdennis as something that's been not only intended, but planted, am I gonna be arguing that this was all intentional the whole time? ...No. ...Yes? Maybe. This pains me to say more than it pains you to read, believe me.

Now by planted I don't mean they ever really planned to have it happen necessarily. I'm talking about the trap aspect of it all. The will they, won't they. The question, the mystery of what's inside the crate. You get me.

I wanna start from the fact that there's fifteen severed heads in the fridge. Severing heads being a metaphor very prevalent in season 15 as we've seen, but especially...

And that's the scene.

Yes, I'm aware.

I'm done. I was in character before, but I'm me now, so you can tell me how good I was.

Oh, okay. Well, you just cut in front of 15 other actresses.

You're welcome. I took a gander at 'em and... ( sever head gesture )

Plus, I do feel like that's what the character would have done, and I've been in character all day. As a matter of fact, don't want to brag, but I've been in character all week.

Fifteen, like the seasons? It could be they were hoping to reach that number to break the record, just like Charlie is shown doing at the start of DLLARSO, attempting to break a record to see how long he can hold his breath for.

Dee: What is going on in here?

Mac: Just laying low and breaking world records. Don't even think about breathing, b¡tch.

Dennis: All right, so here's the deal. Got rid of that child molester. The sеxual predator guy? Yeah, he's gone. He's out of the situation, so my problems are solved. You had a thing too, right?

Dee: Mac's dad. I want your dad out of the bar.

So three things, breaking records, the second Dennis leaving (you know, Dennis Double Life thing), and I do think Luther might be dying this season, as well. It seems to line up to me... we know Mac is going to "collect his inheritance", which he wouldn't really have unless a parent died like Charlie's. He also walked out, so.

But that's impossible, that's season 3. I thought so too.

So I want to bring another example of severed head onto the table... Chardee Macdennis 2. Season 11.

They're asked to sculpt "clues" for the game, and what does each of them sculpt?

Mac: "Cupid's arrow". Which Charlie keeps calling a penis, and which looks strikingly similar to a RPG missile to me, I'll add.

Frank: A heart. Like the heart shaped lock?

Dennis: A woman's head in a freezer, which he says, and I quote, represents "the preservation of love forever and ever".

Keep in mind, there was no theme given for the sculptures, the whole goal was for the teammates to guess what the other was sculpting. Now why are they... love themed?

I just want to say right out of the gate, I don't know what everything means, I'm more so here to draw parallels that I've noticed. I think it's interesting that everyone can draw their own conclusions too.

So, to summarize all three episodes:

In Mac is a Serial Killer, the gang see Mac acting weird, so they start suspecting he's a serial killer.

(I do want to point out Carmen scratches Mac (during sex), which is one parallel with Dennis, but not my overall point.)

Frank and Charlie scour for clues in Mac's apartment, while Dennis tries to use Dee as bait to catch the serial killer. Frank gets a confession out of Mac's mom, and then the gang starts to hatch a scheme (which they call a trap) to "catch" Mac about this, and drive a confession out of him. The truth though, is that Mac is dating Carmen, and doesn't want the gang to find out.

In Sex Offender, Luther is finally out of jail and is visiting a bunch of people. Mac and Charlie see that Luther has a list with their name on it, and panic thinking he's been killing these people and is gonna kill them next. What is really happening though, is that he was actually making amends with the people listed (something that comes back in S16!), and had a surprise prepared for Mac, who "ratted him out". The B plot has Frank moving out because he thinks he can do better than Charlie, so he gets with Bonnie, his "bang maid". Both Charlie and Mac hatch a plan (again called a trap here), a romantic dinner, with very different goals. Charlie wants Frank back and to expose his mom as a cheater (in a situation that actually reminds of the s15 dinner, with the turd in the soup), Mac wants to pair his parents back together so they can raise "happy boys". In the end, Luther gets with Bonnie, which coincidentally does drive Frank back into Charlie's arms, but in the end Luther gets carried away by police. Additionally as we've discussed, there's a second Dennis in this episode, a fake, who is threatened into leaving at the end of the episode.

In Flowers for Charlie, scientists are running an experiment on Charlie who becomes their lab rat, while Dee Mac and Dennis are dealing with a rat problem in the bar, discussing ways to catch and kill it. Charlie starts thinking he's too good for his friends and notices that "they've been using him", Frank enlists the help of the Waitress by setting up a dinner between them, hoping Charlie's deep infatuation with her will pull him away from his new life and the corner he's turned and back to Frank, and when that doesn't work, Frank tells Dee Dennis and Mac that he wants to "drag him back down into the sewer where he belongs". Dee thinks she's stuck to the rat glue trap, but after the rat eats the cheese and scurries away unaffected, thanks to Frank's help she finds that by letting go of the trap, she becomes unstuck. In the end we find the experiment didn't make Charlie smarter, only more arrogant, and perhaps more fascinatingly some other things, like he believes to be a mathematical genius, and writes:

X = 9 + 9 = Box... that's where the cat is.

(9 + 9, like 18? Like the seasons we have confirmed, 18?)

And more.

And in the space of an hour, the subject has lost all interest in a woman with whom he had been in love for years, because of a perceived upidity relative to himself. Perhaps the most interesting were the series of side effects that he believed himself to be having. Uh, debilitating aches and pains. It was all in his mind.

According to this, the more arrogant someone is, the more he forgets about the people he loves, and the more he suffers various pains. Therefore, you need to knock someone down a peg to remind them of their feelings, and make them feel better.

In Mac is a Serial Killer, at the end, Mac is also accused of being two people.

Charlie: I'm sorry, Mac. You can't keep running from this thing. You gotta face this head on! (whispers) I'm gonna get you off this. Don't be afraid to show me your ugly side. All right. Put that away, Frank. You don't need a chain saw. You're talking to an innocent man. All right, Mac. I'm gonna ask you now 'cause I'm tired and hungry. I want to go home. I want to wash my hands of this whole stinking mess. Did you or did you not snap into an alternate and distinct personality... causing you to go on a serial killing rampage?

Mac: What? No.

Charlie: What? Yes, you did. You... All right, Mac. You're crazy, right? You're a crazy person. Sometimes you're two people. Let's see the other guy. Let him out.

Mac: Let who out?

Charlie: The serial killer, Mac! Let the serial killer out!

Mac: I'm not a serial killer!

Frank: Then why all the shady behavior?

So, what is the trap... so far, we've seen that you trap someone either to set them up with someone else (the romantic dinner in DLLARSO, but also the trap in Gets Romantic, and also when Dee sets them up in Break Up by using a lady with giant breasts as bait!), or to draw a confession out of them (like in MIASK, but also Catches a Leprechaun). Perhaps both, at the same time, as there may be multiple people scheming the same thing with different end goals, or different things with the same end goal. Either way, that's the conflict of the trap.

Brief intermission to talk about another episode where the trap comes up. Charlie's Home Alone.

Charlie empathizes with a rat, and saves him from a trap.

'Cause I know what it's like to be caught in a trap now, and it's not okay. I won't let you get caught in a trap, okay?

Takes him in his hand, and eats him (DLLARSO also has talk about Luther looking like he eats people, but I don't have a thought on that yet aside from basic cat eat mouse type stuff, also not everything is Something, but I digress!).

Later a real trap is introduced as part of the rituals, and Charlie steps on it and must free himself. The release lever is at the bottom. He frees himself, but once Brady has the ball, he has to step right into the trap again.

This stepping in and out, again it reminds me of Dennis in Gets Romantic, but since it was a season 13 episode, it may also be Glenn about the show.

But here's something I think, just to spice it up, I think the trap may also be, more in general, a relationship. Right? Dennis has been in one (with Maureen), didn't like it, yada yada. Now Mac talking about banging, that's one thing. Mac getting in a relationship? Suddenly he's ruining everything, getting locked in, that's different. And the scene between him and Dennis in Flowers for Charlie, implies to me that we have two rats and one bait, that the trap involves two people. Like a relationship. Now am I married to this idea, pun not intended? Not really, but it's possible.

Either way, the trap is something that catches rats. Thanks to Flowers for Charlie, both Mac and Dennis can be rats, due to said dancing scene...

Dennis: He scurried away.

Mac: All right, well, when he comes back, I'm gonna smash him up good. Dennis: No, no, Mac, come on. We're smarter than that. That's just gonna spread rat blood and disease all over the place. It's not about brute force. It's about seduction. See, I'm gonna place some enticing tunes for the little guy. And then I'm gonna bait this glue trap with some Brie cheese.

Frank: Because drawing a confession out of someone... is like doing a beautiful dance... a beautiful dance with a chain saw.

When Charlie is framed as the rat in Flowers for Charlie at the beginning, he's dead set on getting the cheese he can't have, and has no interest in the one under the green light. Which reflects the chase. Like cat and mouse.

This experiment, that's being talked about as groundbreaking and that will revolutionize the field, is all about making the subject feel smart due to the constant encouragement, but the subject really isn't.

Mac is not the serial killer. He's not smart enough. He's a dumb person. And dumb people are not capable of serial killing.

In Chokes, it's said that Dennis will see through the ruse, because he's smart, but the truth is that he didn't, because he isn't. It's Mac that heightens his confidence, and it always has been.

And in the sideplot of Flowers for Charlie, Dee Dennis and Mac end up watching "cat and mouse" cartoons to understand how to solve this rat problem. But... a cat was never introduced in the episode prior to this?

The mouse always wins. There's... there's, like, no winning with mices. Cat keeps getting hurt. He gets hurt. Well, it's dangerous, yeah. What the hell are you guys doing? We're trying to watch cat and mouse cartoons to find out how kitty cats deal with their rat issues.

But historically, the cat has always been Dennis... the cat in the wall (through framing and dialogue), and then ongoing with like the painting in s15 and the dead cat in the room and so on. This cat may get out of the wall, or he may die in there. That duality belongs to Dennis. But how can he both be a cat and a mouse? No, I don't have an answer, but perhaps it's up to confidence. If you bring it down low enough for both Dennis and Mac, they're finally both little mouses, and you can catch them in your trap. Not that the trap ever works? In all episodes where it comes up, it either fails (Flowers for Charlie), is painful (Charlie's Home Alone), complicates things (Gets Romantic), or a combination of those (Serial Killer and Catches a Leprechaun).

It's also about method.

How do we lower this guy's confidence, how do we reach rock bottom.

In Flowers for Charlie, Mac's solution is to bash the rat.

In Mac is a Serial Killer, they want to draw a confession out of Mac by torture when they catch him. Using a chainsaw even.

And in Dennis Looks Like a Registered Sex Offender, Dennis takes a good beating because he's mistaken for an awful man that looks like him, as per Dee's plan.

And this in Mac is a Serial Killer:

Dennis: This is the fun part, Dee. This is the part that we've been working up to. This is what all the work has been for. We're gonna follow our victim. And then we're gonna jump her. And then I'm gonna strangle her and you're gonna chop her into pieces.

Dee: Okay, but what are we really gonna do?

Dennis: Huh?

Dee: We're not really gonna kill her. What are we gonna do?

Dennis: Oh, yeah. Oh, shit. That's a bummer. Yeah, you're right.

Dee: Let's just follow her for a little. We'll throw a good scare into her. Figure out what to do later.

Plus, in Charlie Catches a Leprechaun, which is another episode in which a man gets captured with the goal of driving a confession out of him...

Mac: Nasty little son of a b¡tch, isn't he?

Charlie: There's, like, a real bite to him.

Mac: You know what I think we should do? We just rough him up a little bit. You know, just get the truth out of him, just a little bit.

Charlie: It's a great idea.

Mac: We don't want to bruise him up, I just wish we had, like, a hose or something. You know, we could blast the truth out of him. Right?

Charlie: That'd be good...

Setting aside the episode insisting a lot about ancient authentic irish traditions and other parallels I don't have time to get into, this ALL reminds me of course of the plan from the castle about the irish doctor in S15, you know, pour scalding liquid from the murder hole (a predecessor to the glory hole!) and char him.

Dennis: Yeah, so you'll lure him under the hole, where I will, uh, douse him with boiling oil or hot tar or really any scalding substance.

Frank: Wait, you're gonna char the guy? Gonna char him up?

Dennis: Yeah. I'm not gonna kill him or anything, but it's got to be hot enough to be annoying as shit, right? You know what I mean?

Frank: Yeah. Burn him.

Dennis: Uh, he's gonna get burned. But, I mean, Charlie's got to see him lose his cool, so we can expose him as the child-abandoning monster that he really is.

In s15 later, Dennis talks about that incident as "taking care of him". We all giggled at the gay implication of that, but the thing is, Mac is a Serial Killer and Dennis Looks Like a Registered Sex Offender both play with that duality of meaning, as well.

Dee: Could you come take care of me?

Charlie: I'll allow it.

Mac: Uh, yeah. Yeah, I can take care of you.

Dennis: What were you planning on doing to Sandy?

Mac: What do you think, dude?

Dennis: Well, according to this phone transcript, Mac... you were going to "take care of her"?

Mac: Yeah. Take care of her.

Mac: He told me these are people from his past, and he's got to take care of them. And once he takes care of them, he's gonna take care of me.

And it really is like that sick extended metaphor where on one side we have Mac and Dennis, on the other we have death. Same as Dennis' Double Life. You know, "give me dong or give me death". That you can either love someone, or kill them. It reflect the concept of the trap, I think.

But speaking of which...

Frank: Stay away from my bang maid.

Charlie: Damn it, Frank! This isn't about them... Charlie... or Mac or anyone else... this is about you and me, bro. This is about dudes living together, hanging out, sharing their bed and their life...

Mac: No. That's not what this is about! This is about people meeting back up after many years and sparks flying... and families getting back together and raising little boys so they can be happy again!

Much like Clip Show, that same duality. On one side living with Mac (dudes living together, plus Charlie and Frank are often a parallel for Mac and Dennis), on the other, raising Brian Jr (families getting together and raising little boys).

Charlie: Shut up, Frank. You don't know what she wants any more than she knows what you want. You know who knows what you want? I do. I've always known what you want. And I can give you want you want. Just let me give you what you want.

I don't like jumping into specific event predictions because I always get them wrong, and I don't find any fun in that. And while the trap and rats meta is real, I may be completely off with it here. I just like drawing connections.

But speaking of traps and ruses, here's another bit of dialogue that comes to me, in times of need.

Charlie: I see you all fell for my ruse.

Dee: What ruse? You asking us to go on a hike with your dad, and us saying "yes"?

Charlie: Oldest trick in the book.

Dennis: Asking someone to do something?

Charlie: Exactly.

Dee: And then, them doing it?

Charlie: Precisely, yes.

I think traps usually are something you hatch to uncover a ruse.

That's why in all of these examples, the goal of capturing someone is to draw a confession out of them. But they don't work that way, because what the capturer and the captured hold as truth doesn't align. Mac is a serial killer, they expect him to confess to serial killing, but he was just dating Carmen. Catches a leprechaun, they expect him to admit that he is, but he really isn't. Even in Worst Bar in Philly, another ep where they kidnap a guy, they are trying to extort a fake review from the journalist.

So if the trap succeeds, it'll have a different result than intended by who hatched it, and uncover a truth that wasn't the expected one. Just based on statistics, I guess...

If the intended goal is really to hatch a plan to humiliate Dennis, char him or whatever, then what it may actually do is break his cold, calculated shell. But I don't know...

Frank, I am thinking on the physical level, the metaphysical level, the pataphysical level.

So we've all talked about meta and that's fun, but let's talk pataphysical too since Flowers for Charlie mentions it.

That's difficult, as there are over one hundred definitions of pataphysics according to wikipedia.

A few are:

"Pataphysics will examine the laws governing exceptions, and will explain the universe supplementary to this one"

"Pataphysics is patient; 'Pataphysics is benign; 'Pataphysics envies nothing, is never distracted, never puffed up, it has neither aspirations nor seeks not its own, it is even-tempered, and thinks not evil; it mocks not iniquity: It is enraptured with scientific truth; it supports everything, believes everything, has faith in everything, and upholds everything that is."

"Pataphysics "the science of the particular" does not, therefore, study the rules governing the general recurrence of a periodic incident (the expected case) so much as study the games governing the special occurrence of a sporadic accident (the excepted case). Jarry performs humorously on behalf of literature what Nietzsche performs seriously on behalf of philosophy. Both thinkers in effect attempt to dream up a "gay science" whose joie de vivre thrives wherever the tyranny of truth has increased our esteem for the lie and wherever the tyranny of reason has increased our esteem for the mad."

"Pataphysics is science, albeit one with an aesthetic sensibility; it regards “humor” and “the serious” with the same imperturbable gaze. "

"Pataphysics is simply an awareness that everything, including our very selves - is what we pretend it to be."

In other words, truth is not what's actually real, what we do or our past, truth is what we believe it is. Much like identity.

One more.

"You have seen that far from regretting the past I would simply suggest that we improve it…’Pataphysics will always be plunging ahead, precisely because it is static in time, and because time, itself, is retrograde by definition."

So if one is dissatisfied with their past, they can simply change it... by going there. This concept is played around plenty in Clip Show, but I want to talk about something else. I want to talk about Dee Day.

That is the episode where we take off Dennis' make up, but there's something else too.

This is where Dee talks about wanting to do a "retrospective" of her characters.

And the plan to make the ordinance pass, includes the gang stealing the councilwoman keys and setting her clocks back so she would miss the vote.

And look, we do have one flashback promised to us, in the bowling episode if I recall correctly.

"But is there any other canonical way of viewing the future (whether one calls oneself serious, in the profane or pataphysical sense of the word), than as a bouquet of imaginary Solutions – that is, potentialities?"

I forget if I've talked about potential in sunny. The seeds, the puppies, the eggs... always about the potential of life. I think it's fascinating. Like there is an infinite branch of ways in which macdennis could happen, right? And that's the potential. And by bringing it into the text, you're effectively killing it.

But are you, really?

The first time round is a bitter pill

But the second chance is better still

And then we find new seeds to sow

To grow our love we didn't know

There's always new seeds to plant...

But I'm not done with the pataphysical. Oh no, there's more.

There's also the fact that Flowers for Charlie talks about the structure and the foundation. When asked where the foundation is, they respond "on top", but Frank corrects them, on the bottom.

I have a feeling both answers are correct, just like both of Dennis' lives are true, and here's why.

Concepts that embody pataphysical include:

Antimony: An antinomy is the mutually incompatible. It represents the duality of things, the echo or symmetry, the good and the evil at the same time.

Clinamen: A clinamen is the unpredictable swerve of atoms that poet Christian Bök calls "... the smallest possible aberration that can make the greatest possible difference". An example is Jarry's merdre, a swerve of French: merde ("shit").

Syzygy: The syzygy originally comes from astronomy and denotes the alignment of three celestial bodies in a straight line. In a pataphysical context it is the pun. It usually describes a conjunction of things, something unexpected and surprising. Serendipity is a simple chance encounter but the syzygy has a more scientific purpose.

Absolute: The absolute is the idea of a transcended reality.

Anomaly: An anomaly represents the exception. Jarry said that, "Pataphysics will examine the laws governing exceptions, and will explain the universe supplementary to this one." Bök calls it "... the repressed part of a rule which ensures that the rule does not work".

Pataphor: The pataphor is a term for an unusually extended metaphor based on Alfred Jarry's "science" of 'pataphysics'. Whereas a metaphor compares a real object or event to a seemingly unrelated subject to emphasize their similarities, the pataphor uses the newly created metaphorical similarity as a reality on which to base itself. In going beyond mere ornamentation of the original idea, the pataphor seeks to describe a new and separate world, in which an idea or aspect has taken on a life of its own.

Once again this rings true for Clip Show in general, as a concept, but I would maybe dare say this applies to macdennis regarding many associated concepts such as the trap or the crate. In particular, Macdennis as a concept has been morphing and evolving separate to the textual plots, due to heavy metaphor use.

In particular, they're always placed in the role of married couple, in multiple episodes. Break up, Suburbs, Gets Romantic, Mortgage Crisis. It doesn't just say "you are like a married couple", it shows them behaving as one. Therefore, if looked at under a pataphysical lense, that's what they are. That's the reality of it.

Of course, since this whole spiel is born from one word in a single episode from season 9, there's no telling how much it actually matters. It may be a happy coincidence. Does it really matter? (Not in pataphysics).

In a similar sense, we spoke Mac into coming out as audience, because we believed in it as our reality.

And another thing, since I'm riffing a lil bit at this point.

But since Dennis has been intentionally led to portray two separate and apparently opposing realities, the audience is equally divided on him, and as a result both realities keep appearing as true.

So in DLLARSO Mac is stealing Dennis' car and using it without him knowing. If we go with the whole "Dennis' car is his identity" which is very dear and near to me and I basically think of as true at least since Misses The Boat (and this is a s3 ep, which is why I'm saying IF), I'm wondering how this extends in season 16.

Well for starters, we see Mac behind the counter twice just in trailers. That has been, typically, Dennis' spot as the bartender. Very rarely does Mac cross behind, even less so on his own. Notably, it happens in Mac Fights Gay Marriage AND Dennis Gets Divorced (which btw, these two parter titles make it sound like they're the two that got divorced lmao, but um).

Another way in which we see him possibly take Dennis' place (or walk in his shoes! wear his skin, whatever you want to call it), is by the fact Dennis is teaching him the DENNIS system (an altered version I assume?), like passing the torch on to him (and Dee, who wants that place in the gang hierarchy as well...).

Finally, something that may not be a thing at all, but he meets Chase in S16, only Chase thinks he already met Mac. Because Dennis gave him Mac's name in Stranded. I'm expecting some name shenanigans of some kind. (perhaps Mac will use Dennis' name? I'm not banking on that, but how's he gonna explain? that is, unless someone else already did, in his pursue to make amends... well, who knows. you know what they say about assuming)

It's funny because Stranded is an episode all about how saying no brings you misfortune, while saying yes brings you luck. And money. 10.000$ of them specifically, both in Stranded and, casually, the original amount won by Mac with the scratcher.

The amount that... after all the bills, ends up being only 14$ dollars. (like the seasons?)

Stranded is also interesting on its own... Frank avoiding the main road because he doesn't want to pay the toll... Okay, that's enough. Getting off track.

So, final notes, since this is a more speculative and rambly post, and I'm under the impression the metaphors discussed (rats, traps, severed heads...) aren't complete (meaning they're gonna expand on these more in S16), I'm very much hoping everyone chimes in with their thoughts and speculations... perhaps other episodes that you think may fit this... let's throw away the oars and get into it, like, who cares if it ends up wrong, you know? I may come back to this too after the season airs to see what else there was...

#iasip #it's always sunny in philadelphia #s16 spoilers #always sunny #macdennis #macden #analysis #meta #RARE macdennis meta post from me... I've been burned before by being terribly wrong about something #and since then i dont do event predictions anymore. aside from ''i think macdennis is real. heres why.''#this post makes me sound like a flat earther #and i didnt even get into the whole power bottom = lowest in the structure but highest in power.#the ultimate pataphysical duality!!#and also.... flipping things upside down which is a vibe i got and cant articulate. mostly from that one ep where they flip the pyramid #and woop it's a scheme #how could the bottom be on top? you flip it #similarly sunny right now is ''flipped'' aka we are at the LOWEST OF LOW which for us means we're near peaking #but literally thats just conjecture. like bash me with a stick idk thats just what i believe #please add input so i dont look dum. something about rat eggs found in holes like jumper. anything really #i love connecting dots i recommend it as an activity to everyone #if rcg reads this they're gonna pay for my therapy finally. i count that as a win tbh. mental health day serve #ALSO IN STRANDED DENNIS SHOWS CHARLIE A HICKEY THAT HE SAYS HE GOT AFTER GETTING UNEXPECTEDLY CAUGHT IN A RAINSTORM #lil nuggets of gay dennis that i take whenever i can #the truck driver who has a wife and kids but is secretly gay is also kinda sus. what an ep to be threading in s16 #''lex what's threading'' i invent my own terms bc im crazy but thats when an ep themes connect w a future ep themes. i also call it echoing #if u even care #will mac pay the troll toll to get into the baby boy's hole? tune in next season to find out!#if ur wondering i think the ruse is gay marriage so i do hope he says yes. idk who ''he'' is. maybe theyre both planning to propose #i once read a fic with that plot. they were trying to one up one another with the proposal. i think that person should sue rcg #ok I'll shut up now. annoyin ass

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