#i just think it would be pretty interesting if asriel comes home since im assuming the game | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

saveloadreset · 7 years

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sorry. what's the proof that chara and gaster were alive at the same time? i've never seen anyone talk about this before. Nobody in the larger theory world and gaster fandom talks about when gaster was alive and when chara was alive being the same. but i'm no good at my own theories, i just follow other people's theories. And im used to theories outside of theory mainstream, like gaster having horns or sans being a dead human, being crap. so i was overly wary and hostile. plus was in a bad mood.

Oh man, I remember that horn theory, it was so bad!

I understand your hesitance, but I think that this is a more grounded theory. I hope I’ll be able to convince you. For clarification, our anon is asking …

WHY I BELIEVE GASTER AND CHARA WERE CONTEMPORARIES

Part One: Gaster

The first thing we must do to build this theory is to try to figure out when exactly Gaster had his accident. We don’t know much, just that he had to have made the CORE sometime before he fell into his creation. It’s my thought that, because he built the CORE, he was likely present while the monsters colonized the rest of the underground after leaving what would become the RUINS.

My reasoning being; NEW HOME itself appears to be built on top of the CORE, and deeply reliant on the power its process generated to keep running smoothly. So I assume that, before the monsters colonized the Underground, Gaster was fine.

Part Two: Chara

Why does this imply that Chara knows Gaster? On a surface level, perhaps it would be easier to suggest that it does not. After all, the residence of HOME has evidence of one child living there, while NEW HOME has evidence of two.

As you can see, in HOME we have one chair for a child, and in NEW HOME we have two chairs for a child. This does imply quite strongly that only Asriel lived in HOME.

The beds in here seem to suggest the same. But, there’s something odd about this, actually. There’s something that exists in HOME that shouldn’t exist there, unless Chara had already fallen.

You can’t reach the object in HOME, at least not to look at it. There’s a box of shoes in the way. But you can still see it pretty clearly, the picture of a golden flower. Perfect mirror of the one in NEW HOME. The one that Chara drew with their own hands.

Clearly these designs were made to mirror each other, but I’d gently remind everyone that the HOME design was created FIRST, in the demo. Toby always knew that flower was gonna be there. If you assume that the importance of the golden flowers were already known to him … and considering the odd weight those flowers are given, that seems likely … Then that art would HAVE to have come after Chara’s fall.

Could Toriel have come back and hung it up? Maybe, but it feels a little curious, as far as compulsions go, to take a keepsake from a lost child and hang it up in a room that they don’t appear to have slept it. It feels a little more believable to me to think that Chara drew this picture for Asriel, and that he hung it up on his wall, considering how important it is that Golden Flowers never even existed in the Underground before. They could only come from Chara’s imagination.

I take this (among other hints I’ll get too later) to imply that Chara fell and spent some time in the RUINS, but maybe not a lot of time, and maybe they did not spend that time living with the Dreemurrs as their adopted child.

By itself this is piecemeal though. What really made me think of this theory were a few things we learned in Snowdin …

Let’s go back to history class … By which I mean, ‘books, lots and lots of books.’

Here’s what we find in Toriel’s house. Straightforward. Nothing here we didn’t know already. They were afraid of humans, so they retreated. Nothing weird about that. But again, I said Snowdin was what set my brain on fire. What did I learn there?

This appears to be a continuation of the original monster history!

… But why does it say part 4? Parts two and three do not exist, either in game or in the strings. Whatever events led into this, UNDERTALE is being very deliberately mum about it. Even asking the shopkeeper bunny will have her brush it off and jump ahead to when Snowdin was founded. It’s a mystery to everyone.

But we do know the result of Parts 2&3. ‘Fearing humans no longer.’

Monsters went from fearing the retribution of humans terribly to being comfortable leaving the comfort of the RUINS and their defensive door, running up and settling the very EDGE of the barrier. Something took away their fear of humans.

So. Let’s brainstorm. Did they suddenly find themselves unafraid of humans because now they could fight back? I don’t know, it feels like if they had discovered an anti-human superweapon back then, we would have encountered it over our adventures, pacifist or otherwise, and Mettaton is a VERY recent invention.

So. They don’t have tools to stop humans or deal with humans. And yet they don’t fear humans? What could cause this? If humans still have the same destructive power over them, and they can’t circumvent that, what gave them that comfort, that reassurance? Did they think that they could coexist with humans, somehow?

We KNOW that Asgore didn’t think that at first. Gerson makes it very clear that he and Asgore had a very clear idea of what humanity would do to them, given the chance. (Forgive me for not having screenshots of this! I gotta use the strings)

* Long ago, ASGORE and I agreed that escaping would be pointless…* Since once we left, humans would just kill us.* I felt a little betrayed when he eventually changed his mind.* But now, I think…* Maybe he was right to.* ‘Cause after all, even though we never escaped…* A human’s killing us anyway, ain’t that right?

That’s a pretty radical shift in attitude! What could possible cause it? What changed that led Asgore to believe in …

… the future of humans and monsters?

You might think that it’s a little much for me to imagine that the monster history would deliberately include Chara’s story into their chapters. But here’s the thing . .. in a way, they do. There are other chapters of monster history that are less commonly seen.

In the interest of full disclosure, these monster history chapters I am about to show you are NOT accessible from inside the game, and must be accessed through datamining. Therefore, their canon status IS debatable. However, most of the information contained herein is already included as canon in the game, from different sources.

Monster History 5 - Absent

Monster History 6

* (It’s a book labelled Monster History Part 6.)* Unfortunately, monsters are not experienced with illness.* However, when monsters are about to expire of age, they lie down, immobile.* We call this state “Fallen Down.“* A person who has Fallen Down will soon perish.* In a way, this confusing situation was all too familiar.

Monster History 7

* (It’s a book labelled Monster History Part 7.)* When a human dies, its soul remains stable outside the body.* Meanwhile, a monster’s soul disappears near-instantly upon death.* This allows monsters to absorb the souls of humans…* While it is extremely difficult for humans to absorb a monster’s soul.* This is why they feared us.* Though monsters are weak, with enough human souls…* They could easily destroy all of mankind.

Monster History 8

* (It’s a book labelled Monster History Part 8.)* There is one exception to the aforementioned rules:* A certain type of monster, the “boss” monster.* Due to its life cycle, it possesses an incredibly strong soul for a monster.* This soul can remain stable after death, if only for a few moments.

I would give these ‘dead’ entries less credit, were they not almost identical to what we learn of humans and monsters and the story of Chara and Asriel later. It feels like most of the reason that these books do not exist in the world is that there were better ways for Toby to tell this story …

But told like this, if we assume that these entries are reliable to the canon, (and I acknowledge that is up for debate), then we actually have a fairly clear timeline, and can get a firm idea on what the progression of monster history was across these tomes.

1: Monsters retreat into the underground and settle HOME.2&3: Chara arrives.4: Monsters leave and settle the rest of the underground.5: Chara falls ill.6-8: Explanation of the behavior of (dead) human SOULs and SOULs in general.

For these reasons I believe that Chara first fell before the monsters moved out to colonize the rest of the Underground. In fact, I think that Chara may have provided the impetus for that decision.

Conclusion

This is going to be the shortest of the segments, because all this is is about putting the conclusions from the other parts together. If we take the conclusion that A: Chara fell before colonization, and B: Gaster had time to build the core before his accident, then Chara and Gaster were DEFINITELY around at the same time.

What’s more, since Gaster was the royal scientist and Chara was deeply involved with the royal family, it would shock me immensely if the two were not aware of each other.

#anonymous #undertale #chara #gaster #save asks #save analysis #weird hairless goat #theory #long post #meta

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