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gtgrandom · 5 years

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Where Young Justice: Outsiders went wrong

(And before you tell me to just stop watching if I don’t like it - I’ve been supporting the show since 2011 by creating a significant amount of content and giving back monetarily. I have every right to critique the writing, thank you).

Honestly, I think they pulled their act together in the finale, and this season left me much more satisfied than I anticipated. That being said, there are some issues I want to address.

Major flaws:

Overabundance of characters

Undeveloped Relationships

Lack of Continuity

Problematic Representation (getting better)

Weak Dialogue

Lower Quality Animation

The Message

Overabundance of characters

I think we can all agree on this one. There were far too many characters in season 2, but season 3 is laughable. It’s hardly a story anymore. Instead it’s an episodic series featuring new heroes each episode to appease niche comic fans.

There’s a formula for a superhero show (and any group-oriented tale in general), and that’s having a central team of five or less. Then you can introduce one or two new characters max per episode as side characters or villains. But you always circle back to your main team. YJ did a nice job of this in season one. So did most CW superhero shows before they made the same mistake of expanding their cast to make their writing task easier. (Yes, easier - new characters means you can stop developing old ones, especially with time jumps). YJ started to narrow down the team by the end of the season, but it still left many mains as side characters / aesthetics.

It’s great seeing these characters brought to life - I won’t deny it. But you can’t delve deep if you have this many. You can’t focus on character development or meaningful relationship development (hence why nearly every ship was established off screen). Furthermore, you frustrate fans when you focus on one group more than another. With a smaller cast you can always count on appealing to your audience because their "fave” is always present in some way. In many ways, fans feel like they’re being dragged along simply waiting for their character to pop up because of a one time cameo. It’s not fair to the audience.

The relationships

I think the only romantic relationships we’ve seen develop on screen are:

Violet/Brion

Spitfire

SuperMartian

Robin/Zatanna

sort of Roy/Jade

- and all but one were introduced in season 1.

The others were simply introduced as a couple with little to no previous interaction. Like:

Tim/Cassie

Dick/Babs

Jaime/Traci

Bart/Ed

Kaldur/Wyynde

Gardita

M’gann/La’gaan

Mal/Karen

That is not how you write romance. You don’t stick it in there for the sake of it. You have to show us why they work, how they got there, and why we should care. I’m not saying there HAS to be romance, but if there is, it still has to be written well.

Continuity

This begins to overlap into the next issue, which is continuity. I understand that Outsiders is not necessarily a new chapter to Young Justice, but if you are going to call it Young Justice Season 3, then I expect story lines to bleed over beyond just villainous deeds.

Let’s look at Dick Grayson, for instance. He’s one of the only mains who has had a very consistent, though shallow, character arc throughout the series. First he wants to lead, then fears it because of the sacrifices he would have to make - because he didn’t want to be Batman. In season 2 though, he becomes his worst nightmare. He risks the lives of his friends, lies to his team, and ends up losing his best friend anyway. And in season 3, we actually get a little bit of continuity here with Dick mourning Wally and being afraid to take on another team after season 2. It could have been expanded upon, but it was still present, and I applaud the writers for that. Especially for driving home his leadership qualities at the end there.

Now, what about the other characters, specifically those introduced in season 2? This season is called “Outsiders,” and yet, it seems to only focus on the original team and Violet’s new group.

What about Bart’s entire arc of coming back, stopping the apocalypse, and then losing Wally, his mentor? What about Jaime’s home life and the lasting effects of being turned into a villain who nearly killed all his friends? What about TIM and his role as the new leader?? Where did that plotline go?? Why is the unfamiliar Beast Boy now the leader of this Outsiders group? How did Ed overcome his anger issues and repair his relationship with his dad? How did Jade go from being a supportive wife and mother into the opposite?

The writers tried to avoid all these problems by giving us a time jump. But that’s just lazy writing if you don’t take the time to answer how things have changed!

Also, I’ve said this before, but continuity isn’t simply having characters mourn a dead character. You can’t keep using that plot device to give heart to the narrative. If that’s your only source of true pathos...and that character is dead...then you’ve got a problem.

The representation

Okay, I’ll admit they saved their asses with Kaldur. I love my wholesome pansexual rep. Would I have preferred to see his relationship occur with a character we’d already been introduced to outside the comics? Yes. But I’ll take it.

Disappointed with Ed/Bart and Bluepulse. They could have shown us more, but they didn’t. They could have given us a story, but they didn’t. And don’t hit me with “this is a children’s show - we’re lucky to get what we get” BS. Because it’s not anymore. This show is literally written by adults for adults.

I really don’t want to talk about the whole Halo/Harper kiss because it was just so wrong in so many ways, but it needs to be addressed. So, first of all, if you excuse cheating in any capacity, shame on you. I don’t care what the characters are going through or how old they are. You don’t both recognize that you have significant others and then proceed to make out!! Second, what the hell?? You’re going to have the first lgbt content be a bisexual stereotype of two girls cheating on their boyfriends (and two characters who have only interacted in one episode before??) Not to mention, underage drinking and gun use? That sends the wrong message to the audience, even if the teens were reprimanded.

Also, Halo is supposedly non-binary, and yet they explained it away by technology, so idk, I’m hesitant to count it as legitimate rep. I still think it was a good discussion to have. But yeah...

Finally, Halo is not Muslim rep after all. She’s a hijab wearing character, but she does not identify with her faith or her culture. She outright rejects it in her scene with Harper. So...what? Is she diversity points that you can continue to violently kill off over and over? Not a fantastic way to treat POC. I don’t think the creators meant any harm by it, but it’s something they need to consider going forward.

(I do appreciate the number of POC characters that have been introduced however. Especially the Latinx and black characters. This show has improved its diversity. But without proper characterization, they’re sort of just...there).

Dialogue

I can’t be the only one who cringed through entire episodes this season? Some episodes had stellar writing. But the bad ones were very, very bad. Obviously, not every joke is going to stick the landing, but if you’re going to kill off your beloved comic relief character, you have to have a better backup plan.

Like, do you guys remember how witty some of the lines from the pilot were? The whole “Speedy” vs. “Kid Flash” debate in the opening sequence? You can tell how much effort went into those scenes. How much love was given to those characters. Because they knew that was their only chance to hook the audience, to get a green light for a full season. So they put everything into character development and plot - and now they’ve lost so much of what made the show precious in the first place. (It’s still precious, but it’s tainted in many ways for me now).

Animation

It’s gone downhill. That’s really all I can say without being mean. Some episodes seem slightly better than others, but if you compare the animation from 3x01 to an episode like Failsafe...there’s just no comparison. I could hardly watch Wally’s scene without frowning at the frame rate.

Message

I don’t understand what the show is telling us anymore (or I didn’t, before Black Lightning gave a very “on the nose” speech about what it is that we were supposed to take away from this season).

I mean this has always been an issue with the show, but at least it was a little clearer in season 1. Then, we had several themes:

Found family (+ Actions speak louder than heritage)

Don’t call us sidekicks (AKA the kids can make a difference)

Secrets are poison (They can tear a team apart. Trust in friends)

Season 2 was a little convoluted...and sort of just recycled material.

Secrets are poison (dammit, Dick)

You are in charge of your own destiny (Jaime/Connor)

Sacrifice (Kaldur, Artemis, Wally, Bart...they all gave something up for the greater good).

But what is the message of season 3?

Secrets are still poison (Tara, Violet, Batman v. Wonder Woman team)

I suppose it’s about healing and letting others in? Like how Brion and Victor have both worked through their anger? Artemis and Jefferson and Dick and Gar sorting through their grief...somehow...off-screen...(except for the episode devoted to Artemis saying goodbye to Wally.)

Perhaps...accepting yourself? (Victor, Violet, Brion, Connor?)

Do you see my issue here? How much harder it is to see what I’m supposed to take away from the show now? I’m not saying there aren’t any good messages being told, but they’re difficult to interpret. Sometimes that can be good. But this time I’m on the fence.

Conclusion

I love many of the characters from this show, but the fandom acts as if the writing is impeccable, and that’s just not true. Not everything is bad. Some of it is still miles beyond other animated television (looking at you vld). And I genuinely enjoyed about half of the episodes this season. But I think it’s important to recognize the flaws in media, as a writer myself, and as a consumer of these shows.

Plz be civil in the comments, and understand that this is only my opinion.

#young justice outsiders #yj outsiders #yj review #yj spoilers #dick grayson #artemis #connor kent

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love-takes-work · 6 years

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Steven Universe Podcast Volume 3: Episode 5: Reunited

This is Volume 3, Episode 5 of the official Steven Universe podcast, looking at the episode "Reunited," including input from Rebecca Sugar and Ian Jones-Quartey.

The official description:

Steven Universe creator Rebecca Sugar and former Executive Producer Ian Jones-Quartey return to provide a detailed look at the creation and execution of "Reunited." Rebecca reveals her original idea for the wedding, the inspiration she drew from old movies like "Fiddler On The Roof" and "A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To The Forum," and why it was so important for her to get "Reunited" made. Rebecca and Ian also discuss the different fighting styles and abilities of the Diamonds, everybody's wedding outfits, Ronaldo's armor and sword, the Cluster, and how the entire Steven Universe series is so informed by "The Wizard Of Oz!"

This, as usual, is bit long so I’ll do my bullet points of interest, with longer descriptions after the jump.

Highlights:

The episode was not originally meant to open with a song. They added the opening number much later to establish plot elements that needed to be fresh in our minds and also set the stage for how Steven was feeling.

They knew the Cluster arc would culminate in arm wrestling way back when they first invented the Cluster arc.

Musical influences for the opening number and the episode itself included For Me and My Gal, A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum, and Fiddler on the Roof.

The Cluster manifesting as an arm while the rest of it stays unformed to spare the Earth is described as "very uncomfortable" for the gestalt creature.

Katie Mitroff is credited for much of the opening song sequence, including wedding outfit design, with help from Joe Johnston.

Garnet's wedding outfit was originally conceived as being torn for the battle, but the design they used turned out perfect for showing the mixture of garments AND working well for fighting.

Ronaldo, seen wearing armor and talking to Bismuth at the wedding, is described by Ian as mansplaining armor to Bismuth.

Early concepts of the Ruby and Sapphire wedding started with Garnet actually marrying herself, in an episode known as "If You Love Yourself So Much."

Diamonds in combat were mostly handled by storyboarder Miki Brewster.

Blue's ability to incapacitate others with her sadness was known early on, and Lapis's reaction was an obvious element they intended to include.

Rebecca thinks the Wizard of Oz and Sleeping Beauty are the most commonly cited films in their writers' room, with a little bit of Cinderella for aesthetic.

Blue Diamond getting a house dropped on her is a Wizard of Oz reference.

Lapis being the one to drop the barn on Blue was a satisfying confrontation, as Blue is described as a parent who abandoned her.

Violence following a wedding was another nod to Fiddler, but it was important to Rebecca that the wedding itself be completed.

The Diamonds' invasion could not have happened any sooner or they would not have faced a united, prepared team of Crystal Gems. They now know what they're fighting for.

It's so important to show that communication and compassion for others leads to strength. The show often depicts the best Fusions as being healthy relationships, and Rebecca thinks spending time and effort on cultivating these relationships--and on yourself!--will make you stronger in the next thing you do.

Ruby and Sapphire's wedding was an important story type Rebecca and Ian felt their characters deserved to have. They were created as a classic cartoon couple who managed to get various romantic story types assigned to them throughout the show; Rebecca was determined to champion this mission to let them have this.

Ruby and Sapphire's introduction in "Jailbreak" was met with a decision-maker slapping a specific prohibition on them being a romantic couple. Rebecca had to argue, "But they ARE."

It's so incredibly vital that couples like Ruby and Sapphire are not considered more adult than typical couples in G-rated content.

Rebecca is grateful and relieved that the wedding has finally aired and they got to do this, but she stresses that this is only one example amidst a hundred years of weddings and couples that communicate an exclusively heteronormative message. There's still so much to do for LGBTQ kids to help them understand they DO belong in a "family-friendly" world.

Though much of the discussion for representation has been about couples, they emphasize they're not just talking about couples here or pushing the idea that everyone's dream should be getting married. It's just that if you do want to marry someone, there is a future for someone who imagines being happy in a non-heteronormative relationship.

The show is designed to give kids tools to handle their own feelings.

Rebecca is excited to include Ruby and Sapphire as a couple that decided to get married after being together a VERY long time. Couples need to talk and know each other instead of jumping into something like marriage.

What's next on Steven Universe? An exploration of what it means for these rebel Gems to be on Homeworld, with Steven "in the palace," and the upcoming episodes are "huge."

The detailed summary is below!

[Archive of Steven Universe Podcast Summaries]

We open by discussing the opening of the episode: How did they come to the conclusion that they wanted to open with a song? Rebecca explains that the song was a late addition; originally they were just going to open on Steven banging on a vending machine trying to get some Chaaaaps out (which would echo what happened later when the Diamonds banged on the Earth to get the Cluster out!), but they wanted to set the scene with something that would tie together all the elements necessary to understand the upcoming action, as well as establish what Steven was thinking about and how he felt right then. Music is such a great vehicle to cover emotional complexities, so it made sense to do that with a song.

This episode was a VERY long time in the making, and they had the ideas for the arm wrestling with the Cluster back when they first started planning the Cluster arc. They had to make sure we had seen the Diamonds' arm ships early on so this scene could happen. The song really helped not only check in with Steven and his "manic need for positivity" but also became a great device for showing us where each major character's mind is as we go into this. It could have just been a couple scenes of talking, but the song works so much better.

McKenzie prompts her guests to discuss musical influences for "For Just One Day Let's Only Think About Love." Rebecca says she was paying a lot of attention to old Judy Garland musicals, so she pulled from a song called "For Me and My Gal" which is wedding-themed (she sings a few lines from it), and she really liked how in these kinds of old musicals they'd have people singing and then talking. It's really hard to coordinate, she says, but Ian says Rebecca has always wanted to collaborate with Aivi and Surasshu to do a big Broadway song like this. A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum was another musical that was a big influence on the switch-between-singing-and-monologuing technique. Fiddler on the Roof influenced the structure of the episode too, since there's a scene where a wedding leads directly to the significant violence of the film.

The Cluster was suddenly brought into this episode after not being mentioned for a while, and Rebecca describes this as being partially the result of "a lot of moving parts." They knew how they wanted it to work, but it was just a matter of putting the pieces together. Steven befriending the Cluster was discussed in a writers' meeting that happened in 2014 or 2015. It was necessary for Steven to befriend the Cluster so it could help him, but it could never actually emerge without destroying the Earth, so that arm that emerges is obviously only a small part of it that almost seems like the Earth itself is fighting back. The arm can't just stay there chilling, though, because the Cluster is uncomfortable interacting that way with only a piece of itself formed.

Now into discussing the characters' wedding outfits, Rebecca credits Katie Mitroff for boarding a lot of the song sequences, as well as Joe Johnston for design. Some of the outfits were planned long ago, like Pearl revisiting her tux, but new outfits included Amethyst's "semi-casual suit" and Peridot's dress. Garnet's outfit went through many iterations, including some ideas to have her fighting with a torn wedding dress. (Gem clothing doesn't really tear exactly, though. Ian and Rebecca suggested the torn bit would have turned into sparkles?) Rebecca really loved the asymmetrical dress situation that was also "born out of necessity" that allowed Garnet's different clothing elements to show and also worked well as a battle outfit.

Ian brings up Ronaldo wearing his armor at the wedding, which Rebecca thinks she might have come up with but wasn't sure. It's all "stuff that happens in the room." Regarding the scene where Bismuth and Ronaldo are standing there in armor, Ian describes it as Ronaldo "mansplaining to Bismuth what armor is." In discussing Ronaldo and his use of the sword he got at DelmarvaCon, they remember that the armor's first appearance in "Keep Beach City Weird" was originally meant to include a bizarre extending baton that he would smack Steven with, but it was flagged as too violent. Ronaldo's "weapon" then became a potato. Ian jokingly says they've got to bring the potato weapons back. Rebecca's like "no, we don't need to do that."

Next, McKenzie wants to know how long Rebecca's been planning Ruby and Sapphire's wedding outfits, since we've now seen concept sketches from 2015 on her Instagram. She remembers drawing it for the first time in probably 2014, and she started pitching the wedding either late 2015 or early 2016. Originally, the concept was to have Garnet marrying herself in an episode called "If You Love Yourself So Much." Conceived as a simpler, self-contained episode, it contained cool images like Garnet dancing with herself and putting rings on her own fingers. They got to use some of that briefly at the reception. This idea didn't get through, but later when she started trying to get a wedding episode, she incorporated the clothing designs we can see from those early sketches, modified later to include the flowers Ruby was wearing in her hair. (Rebecca pulled the idea for those specific flowers from a friend's wedding.)

The next portion of the podcast discusses that epic Diamond battle. Rebecca was really excited to have Miki Brewster do her thing on this fight. The orbs and lasers that Blue generated were essentially invented by Miki, but the sadness wave was an older invention first shown in "The Trial." Blue's ability to incapacitate other Gems with her debilitating sadness in a battle was a really early development. As soon as they knew Blue could do this, they immediately thought of how Lapis would be affected by it and knew they would use it.

Rebecca then brings up the Wizard of Oz and how it directly inspired some elements of Steven Universe. That movie is absolutely a sci-fi/fantasy story. Rebecca feels that the Wizard of Oz and Sleeping Beauty are the two films that get brought up the most in the writers' discussions, with a little of Cinderella for aesthetic. Dropping a house--well, the barn--on Blue was a direct callback to the Wizard of Oz. Torturing the characters, as Ian says, was necessary to get Lapis to a place where she would take the barn in the first place, though Rebecca clarifies that there was nothing contrived about how Lapis acted; it all made sense with her character arc.

Lapis being an original member of Blue's court is mentioned, though they say they don't get to dig into that history, but Rebecca compares Blue to a parent who abandoned Lapis. Having her get to confront Blue and drop a house on her was cathartic. The Diamonds don't take care of the Gems they make. It's part of the problem with their entire system according to Rebecca. Lapis struggled to "take a side," being that she felt manipulated by everyone; now that she's begun to make choices, she can have some control over her life. Lapis always worries she'll do something horrible with power if she has it.

Garnet has a history with Blue too, they point out; Garnet has lots of fear and anger toward Blue, so it was nice to have her standing-up-to-Blue moment tied into Lapis's. This whole arc, from Lapis to Garnet, was about characters making choices for their own reasons. Garnet was ready to stand up to Blue now that she is 100% solid in who she is and why she is together.

McKenzie then asks Rebecca and Ian to discuss their motivation for having the Diamonds appear on the day of Garnet's wedding. Rebecca again cites Fiddler on the Roof and they mention how classic it is to have a wedding and then a fight. It was very important to Rebecca that the wedding itself not be interrupted. It was just the reception after.

(Chronicler's note: I also grew up watching the movie of this musical, and if you haven't seen it, the wedding has the main character's eldest daughter marrying the poor tailor she was in love with, versus the wealthy butcher she was supposed to marry. In the culture of the movie, the Jewish fathers generally chose husbands for their daughters (often through a matchmaker), and Tevye thought marrying Tzeitel off to an old rich butcher was assuring her a secure and rich life. Instead, she was in love with a tailor, and would have been unhappy marrying the butcher. When she begged to wed her love instead, Tevye found himself challenging tradition and questioning his own heart for his daughter's happiness, so this wedding was about new and old finding balance. And then the reception is crashed by the army intent on demonstrating their power and presence. It kinda wrecks the mood.)

The Crystal Gems are able to do what they're doing in this fight because they have recently been reunited in a powerful way by the recent events, and Rebecca brings up the important points Bismuth raised: what do the Crystal Gems stand for NOW, now that we know they were founded on something that isn't appropriate to fight for anymore? Who are they as a team? They have to rally behind Steven, and he has to be comfortable deciding the direction of that, along with Garnet who is now back to herself and has recently gone through some of the same emotional stuff. The Crystal Gems know they can trust each other, no matter what they were originally founded on. They could not have fought the Diamonds cohesively before they went through all this together.

Ian says many concepts they work into the show start with an idea or an image, and they figure out how to get it into the show in a fun way. Rebecca feels they must pull it together with themes about relationships, communication, growth, and emotional stability--and that these lead to strength. Using Fusions to explore this is ideal because they're relationships AND they're characters. Strong, healthy relationships make really excellent Fusions who can accomplish great things. Time devoted to cultivating these relationships and taking care of yourself and your community will lead to strength in your further actions.

In the last leg of the podcast discussion, McKenzie wants to talk about the wedding, and they begin discussing the struggle to actually air this wedding at all. As mentioned earlier, Garnet's marriage to herself was rejected; they wouldn't let it through at all. So Rebecca wanted to find another way to approach it, and describes their approach to their new concepts as being pretty similar to the conversations they had with decision-makers over other controversial episodes leading up to it.

Ruby and Sapphire needed to have every style of love story. "Jailbreak" introduced the characters, and immediately a conversation was born: why do we have this, who are they and why do they need to be what they are to each other, what's the context, etc. Every time these characters surfaced, Rebecca had to explain why she thought they should be able to show what they were showing. "The Answer" was the fairy tale. "Hit the Diamond" was the romantic comedy. "Keystone Motel" was the couple fight and reconciliation. What couple who's been through these doesn't get to have a wedding episode? It's typical endgame.

Ruby and Sapphire are designed to be very typical as a couple, with their fire-and-ice star-crossed lovers vibe; it was important for them to get to do all the things every other couple like them got to do, and there was NO reason they shouldn't get to do it unless the decision-makers were making a special exception for them. Rebecca actually got specifically told that Ruby and Sapphire CANNOT be in a romantic relationship, as soon as she introduced them. She responded, "But they ARE." There's even a song about it celebrating their introduction.

Rebecca remembers a Valentine's Day post of some kind by Cartoon Network finally listing Ruby and Sapphire as one of their couples, and she almost broke into tears. She wasn't allowed to talk about their relationship at the time, and it meant so much to her to be able to start doing that--at the time, she wasn't able to talk about the characters' relationship OR herself being bisexual, but she knew she should be able to tell these stories to children and that there was nothing indecent about them.

She remembers that when she was directly told Ruby and Sapphire's relationship IS NOT OKAY, she remembered being indirectly told the same thing throughout her childhood. She finally saw it was true, this must not be okay, and she felt how harmful that was to her personally. And she and Ian knew they could not let the next generation suffer that harm. They had to know it IS okay. Rebecca says some of the issue comes with the show being aired in other countries, and in those cases the dialogue is sometimes changed in translation. There are also issues with their show being put in G-rated time slots, even though Steven Universe is NOT a G show. But G shows are always full of love, innocent kisses, marriage! There's nothing more wholesome than that and there's no reason Ruby and Sapphire shouldn't have that. Their love is not "inherently more adult" than what kids get to see from more traditional couples.

If you've never even SEEN a couple like Ruby and Sapphire in a G-rated show, you don't even know what it can look like, and Rebecca felt this lack had become an emergency for today's children. You learn and internalize these messages as a child. This harm mustn't be done to these kids; they will learn that there's something different and not-okay about that kind of love, and even if it seems okay in adult shows that they can seek out, they'll have to unlearn and heal instead of just not being damaged by it in the first place. Ian thinks kids can't learn that anything could be wrong with Ruby and Sapphire unless someone else told them it was wrong, so with children you're free to present the world as if you don't expect anyone to object to it. Then, they'll follow suit.

Rebecca is so grateful and relieved that the wedding finally aired and "we made it." But it's just the beginning--one drop in the bucket that's otherwise filled with heteronormative programming. There's still so much to do for LGBTQ kids to help them understand they DO belong in a "family-friendly" world. Feeling that lack so deeply, knowing there's something different about yourself--there is no way to communicate fully how this knowledge drilled into you as a child can corrupt you into fearing yourself and your own feelings. The exciting feelings of liking someone become terrifying, and you don't fully function as a person.

Rebecca also emphasizes that she's not fully focused on "couples" here. She wants the show to give kids tools to handle their anxieties and battle the challenges the outside world puts on them. She's beyond happy that the wedding has done what it was supposed to do, but there's still so much to do that she feels responsible for doing. Ian comments that it's not like anything has been "solved." Kids need to feel that happy dreams are in reach for someone like them. Rebecca doesn't want kids to get these ideas from Disney weddings that getting married is the primary goal and vehicle to happiness, but they need the freedom to imagine their future with a partner they can have happily ever after with; they should be allowed to be included in the option to have that dream.

In discussing fan reactions, Rebecca points out that they deserved to have a kiss like this twenty years ago. She describes the satisfaction of the wedding as bittersweet--it's not enough. She got to talk to a very young fan about Garnet recently in San Diego--this kid just saw Garnet as Garnet, and loved her and her relationship, but getting to have this was not a long time coming for him the way it is for Rebecca herself and older fans. It's just what it is and there's nothing weird about it for that young fan.

Rebecca also emphasizes that the wedding was a cool chance to bring a couple into marriage after they'd been together for a REALLY LONG TIME. Their choice to get married is very informed, contrasted with some cute cartoon weddings where characters are already in love after they've known each other for a few minutes. Rebecca thinks it would've been cool if Snow White got some time to talk to the Prince about whether they have any compatibility beyond their initial chemsistry. Ruby and Sapphire reflected in the wedding vows saying they are making a decision to change their lives individually and together. They will put work into their relationship, and that's what will increase their strength.

And McKenzie's last question is what do fans have to look forward to next? Rebecca is reluctant to talk about what's next, though she points out that Steven is "in the palace now." Ian thinks the trial they've been through has now led to them getting tested in a new way. Being on Homeworld now, what is that going to mean to each of these Gems who worked hard to get away from Homeworld? Rebecca says these episodes that are coming are huge. She can't wait for us to see them.

[Archive of Steven Universe Podcast Summaries]

#steven universe #steven universe podcast #rebecca sugar #ian jones-quartey #mckenzie atwood #reunited #myblog

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smuthuttpodcast · 4 years

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Name/Handle/Alias

rlogarbagech1

About how long would you say you’ve been rooting for Reylo?

I tend to dive into things intensively, so while I knew there was an intriguing dynamic to Rey and Kylo's TFA interaction and I enjoyed what was teased in TLJ when it came out, I think it was a random wading into Reylo fanfic circa Aug 2019 that really got me into the fandom in a deep way. (Throwback to me thinking: eh maybe I'll give Reylo oneshots a try? And BOOM four months later I'm in a daze wondering how I've read like 80 fics, ended up in a writing discord - shoutout to The Writing Den! - and have five stories cooking in my head at one time.)

I like that the fandom takes what was on film in TLJ and expands the contours of that universe, stretching it into all sorts of configurations that somehow still made sense thematically for what Rey and Ben were going through. Whether that's in the context of warring lawyers (eversoreylo), Kyril Ren and Irena (voicedimplosives), archaeology Rey and Ben (disasterisms), a Harry met Sally AU (slipgoingunder), or Canadian politics (saint_heretical)... the creativity of the fandom and how it grapples with SW themes through all these different lenses of interpretation blows my mind. IMO it shows how SW's story themes can be individually interpreted, yet utterly universal.

What did you think of the way Rise of Skywalker handled Rey and Kylo’s relationship?

It felt like a backstep/retcon to what had happened in TLJ. I think CT and JJ wanted to make certain narrative choices but couldn't fully commit to them for whatever reasons, and the story suffered overall in a big way 'cus of that.

TRoS clearly went into the enemies -> lovers arc but leaned way too far into 'enemies', making the arc to 'lovers' within 2.5 hours way very weirdly paced, so it didn't feel like it was earned. The reaction of the audiences I was in for both screenings validated that. At the first screening, there was awkward laughter because it felt so left-field in the context of the film. In the second screening, the GA people I was watching it with felt 'this is really unnecessary' which I can understand because of the lack of buildup in TRoS to that moment.

Reylo in TLJ was at its best because there was time for it to breathe. I rewatch the force skype scenes often and the complete silence, the subtle acting, and the framing of those scenes, is so unusual and bold for a blockbuster at that level. There was also so much gorgeous subtext in what was going on, you could read into it what you liked, but there was definitely an attraction or a pull there for both characters.

You could tell that Adam and Daisy were delivering equally layered acting work in 9, but it was extremely rushed and weirdly edited. The ensemble could also have been a greek chorus for the audience/a bellwether for how we should be feeling towards Rey and Kylo in 9 but they didn't really utilise them that way and Palpatine ended up overshadowing the entire story as the big bad. The more interesting choice obviously was Kylo as the conflicted big bad and a redemption arc, but maybe Disney just isn't ok with that or was pushing for a different direction.

Overall, 9 made me wish we had more time to live in the push-pull dynamic between these two characters and the longing they have for each other despite all the odds, but luckily we have fanfic and art for that, which is why it's so great. Just a shame the film couldn't line those pieces up well enough for a satisfying landing.

Do you think the film understood why you, and other people, felt like Rey and Kylo had something together? Did it get their chemistry?

I'm sure they understood it on some surface level but CT was the wrong person to write that story imo. And JJ on some level disliked RJ's choices so he was trying to wind it back to the TFA dynamic which was more enemies-enemies with a subtext of them being compelled by each other, but not necessarily with a romantic resolution.

I think it's testament to the intelligence of the fandom that we saw the train tracks being laid in ep8 for a more interesting ending, just that whatever story-wrestling/behind the scenes drama/ego was going on at DLF meant nobody was able to actually able to execute that story with the justice it deserved. Locking out the story group also seems like a huge mistake and would've avoided a lot of the larger plot holes they seem to have ended up with, the dissatisfying Reylo arc in ep9 being just one symptom of it.

What about the handling of Kylo’s redemption? Was it something you had to think through in your stories?

How I envision Kylo/Ben's redemption and Rey's response to it is summarised by a lot of the fic that's already out there! And in the fanfic thread I've pinned on my Twitter. e.g. Starstuff by voicedimplosives, Morning by disasterisms, Astrometric Binaries by pontmercy44, Tactical Surrender by Trebia... there are a lot of ways it could have gone. A recent comic (08 Jan?) by Miss Bliss is also a great example and she distilled it down to 15 simple panels, not to say she simplified the ethics of the redemption arc of course.

The biggest effect that TRoS had on me as an aspiring creator/writer is because the film DIDN'T give me the redemption arc, I'm interested to explore how that looks like in fanfic. So maybe that will become a theme in my writing. Let's see!

I'm still laughing about how they yeeted Ben into the pit though. Can't believe those leaks were actually true.

What did you think of where Rey landed at the end? There had been a lot of excitement around Star Wars having a female protagonist. Do you think she lived up to the promise of her character?

A lot of the discourse has already covered this but my take is: in TLJ Rey was the centre of the story, all of her actions were driving the plot and it was a female-centric story about incredible themes like self-discovery, belonging, loyalty, 'lightness', 'darkness', attraction, sexuality. And TLJ was very nuanced in presenting how Rey's role shaped the overall story, the symbolism in the film (all of which had meaning or at least tried to), and her clear growth through it.

With TRoS it felt like her needs took a backseat and were kind of ancillary to the action of what was happening. Or that she was a lot more of a passenger to the story. I guess that's how I would sum it up. If I think back to how TRoS ended I don't think there was a satisfactory character conclusion for ANY of them... and don't even get me started on how they did Rose completely dirty.

There’s criticism of the movie that argues it’s akin to “fan fiction” and that is has too much fan service. As fans and fan-fiction writers, how do you react to that?

It doesn't actually bother me that much. I think it comes from a place of negative stereotyping and misunderstanding of what fandom is all about, especially for the Reylo community – because apparently believing in romance, redemption, and love is meaningless, simple, and weak.

The people that are in the fandom and know it well know that the fandom has a lot of diverse views in it, different perspectives, and some of the most startlingly intelligent and thoughtful people across the spectrum including creators, readers, analysts, community organisers etc.

The fact that there's a WHOLE ECOSYSTEM with fanfic and fan art and discord servers and gift exchanges and comedy memes and metas and all of this stuff just enhances my enjoyment of it overall. And it's an ecosystem that despite critics' attempts to dismiss it since 2015, continues to thrive.

I challenge those skeptics to look at some of the novel-length Reylo work on Ao3, the detailed sketches and concept art, the hours of thoughtful podcasting and REVIEWS OF FANFIC and say this community's not worthy of credit or attention. Even if you don't like Reylo, there's a discussion worth having about why people want to engage with it on a deep level and the transformative work that's come out of it.

We are doing this for free. Out of enjoyment and fun and discovering meaning. The level of artistry and engagement in this fandom is really astounding in that way.

I wish people would talk more about *that* side of the Reylo fandom rather than dismissing it as 'fluffy romance 50 shades in space y'all are rabid crazy' or whatever.

TLDR the question of whether Rey and Kylo have/had toxic and abusive dynamics is an interesting one to ask and we need to continue having the discussion, because from my POV it wasn't 100% clear cut from TFA, and it evolved in TLJ and in TRoS. BUT it should be situated in the context of the broader fandom and the range of views within it, + the many other interpretations of the Reylo relationship through fic and art, which The Atlantic's article missed.

Are you still writing any Star Wars fanfic? Tell us about it! (Don't forget your Ao3 handle!)

I'm late to the game but am interested in writing SW fanfic as a way of exploring my own capacity to write and create, so yes! Did my first drabble in mid December and have a few ideas cooking, the first which looks like a two-chapter modern AU oneshot. Watch this space…

Thanks to rlogarbagech1!

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jadewing-realms · 5 years

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Voltron S8 Thoughts

warning: there will be spoilers ahead

So, I wanted to give myself some time to ponder this before I threw my thoughts out... I don’t want to just say more of what’s already been said, and I don’t really have the brain capacity for a super long rant right now anyway, but... there are a few things I feel like I want to contribute if I can.

I’ve seen some people claiming that those of us who are upset about this conclusion to the show are only upset because “our ships didn’t happen.” Others seem to defend the “tragedy” of this ending as a positive element from an artistic vantage point. Those are the things I want to address mostly, I guess.

On the matter of ships: I’m a writer myself. I’ve been studying the art of story for 10 years now, so that’s usually the lens through which I view most shows and movies. And while I’m sure some might be upset over ships alone, from what I’ve seen, most have cited most of their problems with this season/the latter half of S7 as being from a story point of view. Which I have to echo.

For example: I don’t hate Allurance. Really, I don’t. It’s not my cup of tea, but I wouldn’t have had a problem with it if it felt... genuine/not rushed/not a rebound/not flat by comparison to the previous canon-confirmed ship that was Lotura. The problem with how Allurance panned out, to me, depends entirely on the context.

Like, one of the major problems with the ship that I’ve seen is that Lance is a human boy from Earth, who loves Earth and his family there, and he’s never expressed interest in being a diplomat. Which isn’t a bad thing.

On the other hand, Allura was the princess of a lost race, the last remaining relic of a culture that existed 10k years ago. She had dedicated her life to being a diplomat who would rebuild the universe. Once everything was said and done, she shouldn’t have been expected to abandon that role (this is, for the moment, ignoring the fact that the show did more than have her do just that). Ideally, she would have had to stick with it, lead New Altea, continue to seek peace as any good leader does.

If the Allurance subplot could’ve addressed some of these themes and complexities, I would’ve found that interesting, even if it’s not my ship. It would’ve been intriguing to see how a couple might face those kinds of challenges together. I can get behind any character relationship if it’s done well, has depth, and makes sense.

For me personally, the execution of Allurance (and then of course, Shiro and his unnamed SO that seemed to get tossed in as an afterthought) had none of these things. My distaste for these is not due to the fact that my chosen ships weren’t endgame; in the end, that’s not what it comes down to for me. It’s more about the characters and what feels right for them in context of the show as a whole, and their pre-established character arcs.

The way it was actually manifested, Allurance felt shallow and rushed to me, Shiro seemed tacked on to the season as a whole, and all in all, I was left with a feeling like the characters themselves were not done proper justice (regardless of who they ended up with). That their potential had been let down hard.

Then in regards to the tragedy element, I’ll start by saying that I LOVE a good tragedy. I live off dark themes, it’s what I love to write myself. One of my favorite shows is Attack on Titan. All in all, I don’t mind seeing things ending horribly for characters, okay?

But it has to be executed properly, or else tragedy just ends up feeling like blatant manipulation. Like a bid to make the viewers feel something in an otherwise shallow emotional context.

Viewers of Attack on Titan could never complain about the brutality of that show because it establishes itself as brutal from Episode 1. It sets the tone to tell viewers ‘this is gonna get ugly, don’t get comfortable’. It prepares viewers for a rough ride, so that when we see characters die in horrible, gruesome ways, it’s not as jarring as it might’ve been had we had no warning.

Season 8 of VLD seemed to fish this tragic element out of left field. The show was not built to be a tragedy; up until the end of Season 7, there was no indication that that’s the direction we were going to take. If there HAD been evidence of it, the subtle laying of the foundations of darker elements, it would’ve been fine. But because there was no precedent for how horribly things went, it had all the emotional tact of a freight train barreling down a city street with no tracks (Inception reference, anyone?).

Lotor and Allura both became critical victims of this (though the entire main cast suffered from this ultimately). They both deserved better, and I don’t mean from their universe. I’m talking from a story point of view, as characters, they deserved better from their writers. Even if they both still ended up dying, they were both well-done characters who deserved for their arcs to reach satisfying conclusions. Especially as representative characters.

Lotor specifically spoke to me on a more personal level, as a victim of paternal abuse/neglect myself, as someone who’s constantly checking myself and my flaws because I share that fear of becoming the person who hurt me so deeply. It’s always felt like there’s no way anybody could truly understand what it was like growing up in the environment I did. Like I have to bear it alone.

So to have a character presented with hints of these same struggles was really validating, especially when it seemed like these things were going to be called out. Addressed. Dealt with. Other characters would find out the truth about the depth of Lotor’s suffering and he would find peace and solace in newfound friendships. Such an ending is idealistic, yes. But it’s a nice thought that even if I struggle to find that kind of peace in my own life, it happened to this character. And maybe some day, it could happen to me.

Instead, Lotor is betrayed so wholly and completely by those newfound friends, based solely on circumstantial evidence, that his fragile state of mind can’t take it. Guilty or not isn’t relevant; the Voltron team stuck him in the Rift and FREAKING LEFT HIM THERE TO DIE and that was never once addressed as a problem. The Voltron team was painted as The Good Guys who totally did the right thing, until the very end when Allura (who incidentally was the one previously shown to be the most incensed/angry/bitter over what Lotor did) conveniently acknowledges that Lotor was just trying to do what was right and that he deserved better--which just fell flat coming from her, who up to that point, had not been shown to feel any sort of guilt over what she and her team did to him. Even that acknowledgement was not any sort of admission of fault on her part; only an admittance that Lotor thought he was doing the right thing.

All in all, this does not paint a hopeful picture for me as a victim. It creates a theme of inescapable pain... the idea that my trauma might haunt me so thoroughly, only death brings an escape. Heck, even if Lotor still had to die unfairly (if they had to show us those flashbacks, confirm what a horrific life he’d led, and then show us his melted corpse), the least they could’ve done is dealt with the ramifications of that... show the Voltron team realizing how wrong they were, feeling guilt and shame for their drastic, cruel actions, and THEN admit that even if Lotor had done some horrible things, nobody deserved the fate they dealt to him.

Instead, the message presented is the idea that Lotor, the manifestation of the pain Zarkon caused over the course of ten thousand years, was unable to endure his suffering. That there was no hope for him. He was unable to defeat his upbringing, and was then sentenced to a torturous death for the resulting crimes. And the people who were both betrayers and executioners felt absolutely no remorse for it. And yet I’m supposed to think of them as the Heroes.

I don’t know... maybe all of this is just circumstantial. Maybe I’m biased due to my chosen field of study and my own personal background. But I don’t see how this season was in any way satisfying on a plot or character level... and I certainly can’t bring myself to see any beauty in the injustice of my own childhood, so it stands to reason I can’t see value in the needless tragedy of Lotor’s suffering. Or even Allura’s death (the necessity of which is debatable, btw; there was literally no explanation for WHY she absolutely HAD to die).

I can’t speak for everyone, but the thing that originally kept me watching this show was the characters. Not the plot, not the space battles or giant robots or weird aliens. I watched for the people--for Lance, Pidge, Hunk, Keith, Shiro, Allura, Coran, Lotor, etc, etc--and how they interacted, how they got to know each other and understand each other and help each other. How they made each other better. Because that’s really all any of us can hope to get out of life, isn’t it? To be known, to be validated, to be understood, to love and be loved. This is what I read/watch fiction for, because if I have a hard time finding those things in real life, then at least I can watch it happen to characters I care about.

In the end, though, this season left me in the depressing state of wondering what the point of it all was, which is probably the last place any content creator should want to leave their audience. What was I supposed to take away from this, if not the idea that this show, which obviously fell in love with itself somewhere along the line, pretended to represent many varied facets of the human condition, only to conclude those facets with pat answers, hasty romance, cheap monologues, and shallow tragedies?

I’m not angry. I am simply disappointed.

#voltron #vld s8 #vld spoilers #a rant #lotor #lotura #allurance

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we-the-human · 6 years

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AT Finale “Predictions”

Aug 27 Last Minute Pre-Screening Predictions

- Finn has recently expressed that he does not feel like fighting anymore.

- Finn has been gradually reducing his “past karmas”. (ie. destroying / transmuting aspects of himself through life lessons and letting himself come to conclusions naturally. Three Buckets = kicker the bucket x3. I’m not even going to go into the significance of three...

- Golb is p. Much the absolute essence of like, everything, so any “action” performed is indicative of an energy transfer process (chemical, electrical, .etc)

- the cycle of being able to act against Golb in the first place only creates the reference point for Golb to exist in. The first place, since to act, the energy to think of said act arises from Golb in the first place.

- The creator told Finn he could let everything go for a nee more of existence. That it wasn’t sure if Finn was the creator, or if it was. It offered him a new mode of reality. Finn wanted to see his human life through first — properly, his debts to himself and others paid.

- Finn doesn’t fight Golb by acting - by surviving. He fights by letting go, by not fighting - surrendering to death and walking willingly into Golb.

- Will probs need to be 100% sure of the decision tho so an emotional jam from the fam needs to go down.

Jake, you’re gonna do great sweety

- Correct interpretation of “Blenanas” may tell us what to expect. Was it a, “Sorry fans, this is it. We’re tired, media politics is bullshit. No one is laying their hands on this copyright for ages. We just wanted to make something funny. Thanks for sticking with us. The ending may not be what you or namely, the network, wants (Fuck diamonds and lemons). But we hope you like it.

- Or: “Fuck you network. We’re going out the way we want - all or nothing, while also totally staying loyal to the fans who have kept watching through the seasons. (I mean, Ice King DID get his fan fiction into their issue of “Ble”)

- The Gum War won’t last longer than 20 minutes.

- The first 20 minutes sets the environment and gets all the main cast and those whose stories are most relevant to the screen.

- Bubblegum has had her brushes with death before, but I feel none of them truly felt like “do or die” moments where the audience and characters are truly scared for her. I think this is where we get that close call.

- Gumbald’s army isn’t random. When it comes to baddies in Adventure Time, the Lich has taken the cake...And for being about a boy and his dog going on adventures, it’s never been about “physical fighting”. But, we can’t just NOT have a battle royale showdown! what they’ve done is lined up a series of villains who; a) Haven’t gotten their come-up-ins. And b) Stir up the most extreme feelings when it comes to characters who are not scary, like the Lich, but ASSHOLES, who the audience has a DESIRE to see get beat up. It’s never been about cool fight scenes, or glorifying violence - but if it’s gonna happen, this is how you make it satisfying.

- Golb is a comin’. It is not random. It makes perfect sense. And Jake is gonna save the day.

- All four of the main cast have had brushes and experienced mortality and death. We’ve seen now how many lives Finn has lived. What else is there to be afraid of?

- This is why it has to be Golb. The Lich is an offshoot of Golb; the essence of The age of Human greed and violence. We have seen Golb all but three times; The (re)BIRTH of Finn out of the pillow dimension. The DEATH of Margles. The POTENTIAL RESSURECTION of Margles. The trinity symbolism can be found anywhere, but god damn Betty wants to go ahead and bring Golb through into the material plane. (I think???)

- When Golb comes for you, it’s not for your life. It’s for your stream of consciousness. Golb will suck your life and energy into itself, removing both the physical mass and the ripples of their wave function’s potential from the never ending flux of the universe. You ripple to the frequency of Golb now.

- We have seen Finn die. We know his karmic essence lives on. We are going to see Finn fight to keep himself from being erased from existence and assimilated into Golb.

- And really, this means everyone is in trouble. We have the creator, and from the creator there are the two major poles. Positive-negative, masculine-feminine, form-formless, Glob-Golb, Action-Idea, Body-Mind, Particle-Wave.

- To have the poles be complete in their meeting, arriving at a singularity; all matter meeting with all potential, harmonized in a single pointed purpose means the ultimate death - that of the universe, and thus follows the ultimate rebirth.

-Glob, the manifestation of form, has been taken to the formless by the early catalyst comet. Golb, the manifestation of the formless, by means of breaching into form.

-The left and right hands (paths) of Glob; the right, Abraham Lincoln. Masculine; form, inherently “positive”, rigidity, structure, order, active, subservient, will lean into renunciation, logic. White ass Amurica.

The left; Magic Man. Feminine, inherently “negative”, passive, intuitive, flamboyant, open, creative, will lean into indulgence.

-I think we may be looking at a sort of “universal regime change” here. With Jake at the center.

- Magic Man hasn’t been being a dick this whole time, he’s been preparing Jake - whether he knows what’s coming or not.

Jake is tested over and over on his ability to be open and accepting to tough situations and make the right call - situations that often involve distortion of time, perception, the self and it’s relation to body and mind. Situations that are seductive or maddening. Jake passes. Every single time. He knows who he is. He knows when to back off and when to let go. No matter what Magic Man throws at him, Jake is always Jake. And by the end of it all, maybe, Everything’s Jake.

- This also opens up the finale to make it possible to touch on as many characters and stories as they want. If the audience is sent on a roller coaster ride through multiple dimensions within multiple timelines WHILE the characters are fighting to hold their personalities / selves together, we now have the option of seeing pasts, presents, possible future(s) - ALL without having to nail down continuous plot lines.

- Because this way we can see a happy memory of Marceline and her mom with no preamble. Take a look at a day in Simon’s life before he put on the crown. Literally have flashbacks of the fam just chillin’ for a movie night at Finn and Jake’s (I’d fuckin cry). And why limit it? Fiona and Cake? PB and Marceline’s history? Everything is available this way.

- what’s more, we don’t have and storyboard credits for the finale episodes yet. AT has no qualms about switching up animation styles when guest animators come along. It’s already a quirk of the AT universe. Timelines and dimensions crashing together also gives the perfect opportunity to have an onslaught of various animation styles if they desired.

- An ending like this makes sense with the delay we’ve been given. The three episode comic arc that has been promoted, “The Beginning of the End”, I think, is part of the finale. It’s one of the timelines. Finn trying to piece his self and his memories back together. The first one was released at the end of May. I THINK it was three. That puts the final issue near the end of July. (If it’s 4, the end of August.)

- We might lose Jake... kind of? Jake’s death has been alluded to, by even him himself, he’s never shown fear of death. Jake is a god like creature, a time lord. He is already breaking through time by existing in multiple places at once with his stretching.

-this is why it was the stretching that Warren Ampersand wanted. It’s the essence of time. More of it. More life. Jake can stretch and push time’s limits, but when he witnessed his own birth, (an event Warren has been mentally guiding since he planted Jake), he breached a singularity, triggering what would normally be a birth/death cycle, but as pieces of Jake exist elsewhere before and after his birth, the events converge and Jake and Warren meet as Warren had hoped it would play out.

-We might see Warren again! The audience is meant to know that what happened to him when he was tossed in the black hole was not bad. Warren has had plenty of time to learn how to extend his oscillations between body and mind - extending his physical and energetical life.

-He says he’s going 4D. We technically live in 3D, with the fourth dimension of time arising as a result of the two dimensional differential comparison of sensory input from our eyes to the brain. Two perceptions from each eye form to make the whole, the perception of the extra Third eye. Three eyes, three dimensions to control, and a fourth to touch.

Warren has 5 eyes. He’s ready to move up. 4 dimensions to control, and a fifth to touch. What is interesting is that while Warren is creating the world and it’s inhabitants to trick Jake, none of the people he creates have more than four eyes. He has 5, but does not use them all. Except when he impersonates Finn. Then he has 6.

- if we are talking “eyes”, it can possibly also mean “senses”.

- 4D I’m betting is the crystal dimension. Which brings Lady and Jake’s kids into play.

-If Golb is successful. If she takes in and formulates all of the active matter to synchronization in its singular form, duality has been broken, and a paradox emerges. The formless cannot exist without knowing it itself is formless - to do so, it needs form as a comparator.

- The cycle starts over, a new universe explodes into being.

- if there isn’t a full consumption of everything by Golb, she’s sure gonna try. Either way, it’s going to be Jake that either has such a strong sense of himself no matter how thrown off his external perception is that he will either help pull anyone who isn’t strong enough back into his existence by his memory of them, or, everyone goes 4D after Golb has successfully created universal entropy. Level up.

- Finn has already created and jumped into a 4D bubble in season 2. And he was pretty prophetic with those smart guy glasses on.

- The four 3D elementals that make up the current universal planes will be replaced. The vertical feminine formless pole; masculine fire, purposeful, active and assertive, reactive. Feminine water/ice, passive, still. The horizontal masculine pole of form; Masculine Earth/Sugar/Common molecular structure for carbon based life - masculine, discrete, quantitative, grounding, foundation, stability, logic.

Feminine slime/air - freedom, joy, creativity, flowing, mutable.

And the fifth is the whole of the parts, the personality, or ether/irradiated stardust - it’s own essence based out of the culmination of experiences of the others in a given vessel.

These, along with the ultimate glob form and ultimate Golb formless, may possibly, in an extra dimension move on into Jake and Lady (they both make good positive and negative poles) and the five rainicorn pups. Where beings were slaves to time, now time is one of the senses under control.

- Finn has spent many lives living through his Karma as a “right hand”. To Evergreen, to Shoko’s parents, to Bubblegum, to Jake, and that’s just his contribution to his karma. A new glob needs a new right hand.

- Even if the whole universe ISNT destroyed, Jake is still gonna likely need to help some folks out. Matter exists only if it interacts with other matter. The characters are going to have to use each other as memory anchors. The old ones will come back the easiest. Like Marceline and Bubblegum, who have been constants in each other’s lives for centuries.

- We might get a nice little domino effect... MAYBE SOME SINGING. Nothin says “vibrate back into existence” like an emotional tune from your homies to attach yourself to as you fight to not be swallowed by the void.

- If Jake is not the new Golb, I suspect Magic Man and Betty will be sacrificed in atonement. There is no “beating” Golb. Where there is a universe, there is a Golb and a Glob. Magic Man and Betty could take the new forms, with Jake as Magic Man’s Left hand disciple, and Finn as the right. Magic Man’s current ensemble fits this. His left side is covered with a red cloak. Red symbolizes the far end of the positive right handed spectrum, and it is lined with the same shade of yellow as Jake.

- I could branch off endlessly from here. Either way, I’d pay some money to know what went down during the negotiations of these last two seasons.

- I tallied up the total airtime for season 8 and 9 while ballparking 11 mins for the episodes. The DVD prerelease on amazon says it’s runtime is 10:38. Seasons 8 and 9 hit 8:10. No one really said how LONG the episodes were gonna be, only that there are four left.

- Blenanas made it pretty clear they don’t want any resurrections anytime soon. There was also supposed to be a movie to capitalize off of that I had heard Jeremy Shada mention in 2016 or 2017 that he heard it was still supposed to happen, but that no one had any details. Maybe we might get an EXTRA long finale. Before the last 8 episodes were announced, we seemed to be under the impression that there would be 16 episodes, plus a longer finale episode. Currently the format - if we assume the finale episodes are 10 minutes, we have 12 episodes with a longer finale.

- Oh and I’m thinking we may get a bit more clarification on the graybles dudes. I think they’re like Quantum Millenials - they learn all their lessons from watching experiences of others they have recorded in their cubes. Little packets of spacetime all neatly packaged.

- see issue 74. Magic man jacks the world of colour and imagination and Jake has to bring it back. It finishes with I think, the first cube creation.

- ok I’m done, have fun with these fam.

- PS. Betty and Simon won’t be getting together. He might die.

-edit: I lied. I’m. It done. The more I think about the extra episodes, the more it makes sense. Airing and advertising separately for the gum war and THEN the finale gives it away.

- if this was the original plan, it pans out to have the gum war air three months after gumbaldia in June, (would then total 15 episodes)have the three comics released, and end with the finale episode(s) (16 total).

- I also wouldn’t be surprised if there was issues with content and air dates well into late 2018 between the creators and the network

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equalmeasurefiction · 7 years

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What are your thoughts on Tarrlok's character development?

So, I’m going to assume you mean his character arc and his development during the course of the series. Mostly because character arc questions are fun to answer…

Woooo… where do I even start? There is so much to talk about when it comes to characters and character arcs in Legend of Korra. I guess I’ll start by saying that Tarrlok’s arc is actually one of the stronger ones–it’s a solid downward spiral from the top a la That Scottish Play. But Korra’s an interesting show… it’s full of ideas that aren’t fully developed, themes that are introduced only to be phased out, and moments of character development that have nothing to do with the story itself.

But I think the core of the question here is whether or not Tarrlok’s development/arc is ‘good.’ In order to establish the relative quality of any given character arc, I believe it’s important to work from the ground up–or in this case, from the base-structure up.

So, a character arc is a plot-line, but for a specific character. Ergo, any good character arc should follow the same beats as any given plot. That means that the character should be introduced, they should be given action, they should experience a turning point (a moment when they make a choice that changes the direction of their narrative drastically), which should lead them to make a series of choices… before they reach a satisfying, logical conclusion.

And Tarrlok’s character arc hits every single one of these points:

We are introduced to him and we get a sense of his goals and general direction. He’s an arrogant, manipulative, power hungry politician, who wants to use the Avatar to his advantage.

He acts upon/affects the main character. He asks Korra to join his task force, and when she refuses he manipulates her. They work together until she leaves the task force. After she leaves, he clearly wants her to return.

His character experiences a clear turning point. Korra confronts him, they fight, she goes in for the kill and he blood bends her. This choice changes the course of his narrative and initiates the series of choices… the spiral.

Tarrlok makes a series of choices that gradually push him further into a corner. He kidnaps Korra, he tries to frame the Equalists, he blood bends a group of people, he tries to take Korra and run… each one of these decisions digs him deeper into the hole he’s already built for himself.

Finally, in the climax, Tarrlok comes clean to Korra about his past, giving her vital information and he commits murder-suicide (so sayeth the creators).

So yes, it’s a solid character arc, it hits every point it needs to hit. There’s even a delightful emotional angle to it–watching a great man fall is always good drama. But it’s also very choppy.

What do I mean by choppy? I mean that Tarrlok’s character arc, his development, is very uneven. We get a little of it in the beginning, but he phases in and out of the series, right up until the series hits it own turning point. And as a result, the information the audience is given about his character falls more toward the end of the series, which makes him seem less developed than he actually is.

The problem with info-dumping is that it often requires the audience to accept a huge amount of information very quickly. This works great for games, where that large quantity of information may provide vital pieces of a puzzle or important instructions, but it does not work in writing or media. And it really falls flat when the information is being given by a character that has been shown to be untrustworthy.

And the first four beats of Tarrlok’s character arc show him to be a manipulative, cruel, secretive, liar who will do whatever he has to in order to achieve his ends.

Audiences aren’t dumb. They pay attention to cues and, when a character is shown to be ‘bad’ or untrustworthy, they usually don’t want to trust them. The only way to get an audience to trust an ‘untrustworthy’ character is to redeem them and there was no redemption arc for Councilman Tarrlok.

So, that big information dump really hurts Tarrlok’s character development more than it helps it. And when you factor in how important Tarrlok’s character is to the actual plot and thematic direction of the series (intentional or otherwise), the fact that the viewer doesn’t see much of him early in the series is a big problem.

I say this, because Tarrlok’s character arc is tied to his relationship with Yakone and Amon–the major antagonists of the series. And we don’t get any interaction or sense of connection between these three characters until episode 9, and the interaction we do get is too little too late.

Think about that for a minute. Tarrlok’s connection to Yakone–the lynch pin of the series, which facilitates the reveal of Amon’s true history–is only revealed in Episode 9. There are only three episodes left after that to wrap things up, and that’s not enough time to really dig into the implications of the connection or to let that connection sink in.

Worse still, we don’t get anything about about Tarrlok’s connection to Amon before that flashback sequence. And while that was a beautiful flashback, it wasn’t really satisfying. Instead of answering questions and letting the audience make connections, it served up a narrative and expected audience buy-in on the spot.

In order for Tarrlok’s arc to be satisfactory, we needed to see more of Tarrlok, more of Amon, and much more of Yakone. And that didn’t happen in the series.

Sure, Yakone comes up before that point (and Amon is an ever menacing threat), but his legacy is never openly discussed. And, really, this entire first season is actually about Yakone, his relationship with the Avatar, and how that relationship is perpetuated through their respective legacies (Yakone’s sons and Korra).

The show barely discusses these themes, instead it focuses on subplots and fake-outs. Characters are underdeveloped or aspects of development are pushed aside to make room for pro-bending and romance (the pro-bending was kind of excessive, the romance was awful). Even the Equalist Revolution, as compelling as it was, is kind of a fake out, because let’s face it, we never actually see the lives of non-benders explored in the course of this series. It was never a priority.

What I’m saying is that Season 1, though awesome in its way, lacked focus and didn’t build momentum toward the finale. It did a lot of “awesome things”, but those “awesome things” didn’t come together into a coherent whole in a way that satisfied the viewer.

Now, criticism is great, but it doesn’t offer solutions. So, here’s something I’ve learned in the course of reading and writing:

Never sneak up on your reader/viewer.

Yes, people say they love surprises, but that’s not really true. People like the anticipation that leads up to a reveal, not the reveal itself. They like to pick up the clues with the main character, study them, think about them, and come to conclusions.

Tarrlok’s arc, from a structural perspective, was fine. Like I said, he has a strong character arc and decent development. But, in order for the dramatic reveal in Episode 11 to work, we needed a lot more clues and hints about Tarrlok’s background.

Maybe those hints could come from the triads–they’d remember Yakone. I imagine there would be thugs who hold up Yakone’s legacy as a means of earning respect and power.

Having some triad members claim: “I was trained by Yakone!” Or that they were: “Yakone’s son!” (even though they weren’t) would have introduced the idea that Yakone might have a legacy and, if these were powerful benders, it would have helped cement Yakone as a menacing and threatening figure in Republic City, instead of just an odd piece of the past that keeps coming up. I mean, really a blood bender that terrorized a major city? A man who escaped incarceration? He’d be a local legend!

I think getting more interactions between Tarrlok and Amon would have also helped. If we’d had scenes from Korra’s time on the task force where they confronted Amon and Amon refused to attack Tarrlok… that would have raised some questions and helped the audience come to terms with the narrative direction long before the end of the series.

Maybe we could have had more scenes were Tarrlok compared himself to Aang and Amon to Yakone. An obsession with that narrative would have provided a bit more context for Tarrlok’s relationship with Yakone, but also his interest in Korra.

#Tarrlok #Structure #Character arc #avatar: legend of korra #a:lok #Writing #Technical Writing #Structural Analysis #Long-ass answer #yakone #Amon

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