#but y'all are making me have flashbacks with stucky/stony | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

ansheofthevalley · 5 years

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People tend to do the same thing for Steve and Tony (Stony), as in fetishize their relationship, when you’ve already mentioned that there are plenty of LGBTQ people in the world of Marvel.

Hi nonny!

TBH, it’s hardly hot news that fandom in general like to fetishize mlm couples (especially if the characters are portrayed as straight). It’s usually straight women that fetishizes mlm ships (that’s a whole another problem I won’t get into now, otherwise this would be a very long post). I mean, I still remember the days of BBC Sherlock and Johnlock. I’m sure you do too, nonny.

Now, everyone has their own headcanons about characters and all. And that’s totally OK. But the MCU adapts characters from the comics (I know I’m totally coming across like a comic book purist, which I’m not, not really), and there are tons of wonderful LGTBQ characters in the comics. I’m aware that not all the people that are part of the MCU fandom read the comics, and that’s cool.

I guess that my main issues with this are the following:

Like I said before, the MCU adapts the characters from the comics. But adaptation doesn’t mean carbon copy. Just like MCU’s MJ is not the “typical” Mary Jane we know, the MCU version is based on an alternate version of Mary Jane from the comics in which she was as much of a genius as Peter (I can’t remember the alternate universe). The same can happen with a character’s sexuality. Let’s use Jessica Drew aka Spider-Woman as an example. Her original version (Earth-616) is straight. But her Ultimate version (Earth-1610) identifies as a lesbian. Same can happen with Illyana Rasputina aka Magik, who in Earth 616 is established as straight, but she’s also established as bi and gay in different alternate universes. Other characters that can go this route are Wolverine and Hercules (both from Earth-12025, alternate universe in which they’re a couple) and Beast and Wonder Man (both from Earth-763, alternate universe in which they’re a couple).

(I MEAN... Here you have two of the manliest, most macho-looking superheroes Marvel has, sharing a show-stopping kiss. JUST IMAGINE if we got something remotely close to it in the MCU).

I don’t have a problem with characters being queer when their comic counterpart are straight, as long as it makes sense whithin their narrative frame. Otherwise, it just becomes thoughtless representation and as a community we deserve better than that.

Then, of course, you have the canon LGBT characters (by canon I refer to characters present in the Earth-616 timeline). You have:

- Gay characters:

Union Jack

Northstar

Angela (Thor’s older sister, whose storyline in the MCU was given to Hela)

Sera

Korg (who already is in the MCU)

Phyla-Vell

Moondragon

America Chavez

Wiccan

Hulkling

Iceman (one of the 6 original X-Men)

Karma (founder of the New Mutants)

Viv (Vision’s “daughter”)

-Bi characters:

Loki

Black Cat

Psylocke

Mystique

Electro (a Spider-Man villain)

Daken (Wolverine’s son)

Prodigy

Beetle (a Spider-Man villain)

Fuse

Noh-Varr

-Pan characters:

Deadpool

Julie Power

Xavin

-Trans characters:

Sera

Loki

-Genderfluid characters:

Loki

Xavin

Mystique

-LGBTQ characters that already are in the MCU (*):

Loki (Bisexual and genderfluid)

Valkyrie (Bisexual)

Nico Minoru (Bisexual)

Karolina Dean (Gay)

Xavin (Genderfluid)

Jeri Hogarth (Gay)

Joey Gutierrez (Gay)

Justin Hammer (Gay)

(*)I’m aware of the pattern here, the only openly LGBTQ characters are from the Marvel shows. Loki, Valkyrie and Justin Hammer have all been confirmed as queer behind the scenes

As you can see, there are tons of queer characters, some that even fit with the direction the MCU will be taking after Endgame:

You have America Chavez, Wiccan, Hulkling and Noh-Varr, all members of the Young Avengers. A notable member of this team? Cassie, Scott Lang’s daughter (she’s a teenager by the end of Endgame, so the timeline is just right for Marvel to bring the YA to the MCU). Also, in the Disney + Hawkeye series, it’s said that Clint will train someone. That someone could turn out to be Kate Bishop, another member of this group.

You have Iceman, Karma, Psylocke, Mystique, Daken, Prodigy and Deadpool, all members of the X-Men or groups affiliated with them. Since Disney acquiered the rights to the X-Men, we’ll see some of them soon in the MCU.

You have Phyla-Vell and Moondragon, characters associated with the GotG and the cosmic side of Marvel. Since one of the confirmed projects is the Eternals movie and it’s also said that the Captain Marvel sequel will take place in space, it’s possible these characters are introduced, since it seems the MCU is heading towards exploring the cosmic side of the universe. Marvel also confirmed that the Eternals movie will introduce its first openly gay character, so yay!

You have Ultimate Jessica Drew. She’s from the same alternate universe as Miles Morales. Since FFH confirmed the Multiverse theory, it can be possible this version of the character appears in the MCU, either as the MCU’s version of the Jess or as part of the Spider-Verse story-line. Also possible to make an appareance (but a little further down the line): Black Cat. She’s a love interest/rival to Spider-Man. There’s also possibility for Electro and Beetle to appear since they were both part of the Sinister Six.

You have Angela and Sera. Since Thor joined the GotG at the end of Avengers: Endgame, making it look like an adaptation of the Asgardians of the Galaxy run (or at least, the start of it), it’s easy to introduce, at least, Angela, since she became a rather popular character.

You have Loki and his upcoming Disney + solo series, which will take place in an alternate universe. The series is perfect for Marvel to explore the sexuality of one of its most popular characters.

You have Viv, the Vision’s daughter. Since we’ll get the ScarletVision Disney + series, it’s possible we get a version of Viv, or a mix of her and the children Wanda and Vision “had” (if you read House of M, you’ll know what I’m referring to). Viv is part of the series of new young heroes, along with Kamala Khan (Ms. Marvel), Riri Williams (Ironheart), Miles Morales (Ultimate universe’s Spider-Man), Spider-Gwen (Earth-65′s Gwen Stacy), Nadia Pym (Wasp), Lunella Lafayette (Moon Girl) and Gabby Kinney (a clone of Wolverine).

As I said, there are tons of awesome characters waiting to be introduced. Just because they’re not known to the GA doesn’t mean they couldn’t be great additions to the MCU. I mean, almost nobody knew about the Guardians when their first movie came out. Scott Lang and Stephen Strange were largely unknown by the GA when their movies came out. So yeah, I have great hopes for these awesome characters.

Also, support the Marvel shows that are giving us proper representation! Watch Runaways on Hulu and Jessica Jones and Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D on Netflix.

#anti stony #(not really)#MCU #marvel #lgbtq+ representation #my thoughts #i just have shit to say when it comes to the mcu and queer representation y'know #i also have shit to say about the popular mlm ships #this probably will be an unpopular opinion #but y'all are making me have flashbacks with stucky/stony #y'all taking me back the days tumblr was basically a bunch of straight women fetishizing the hell out of johnlock #\ (ツ) /

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blackgirlsuperherorants · 3 years

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With more articulation, I'm ready to talk about why the push for Lokius simply bothers me, and this can be said for other m/m or w/w ships that fans push to be canon so hard just because they ship it.

It's the framing. The framing that if Marvel doesn't do it (or whatever the brand is), it's because homophobia, and if other fans don't like it/ship it, it's because homophobia (even if they ship other queer ships and are queer themselves.) And the biggest problem with that is that it overshadows the REAL issue of lack of queer representation on screen in mainstream nerd media, especially from big things under the Disney umbrella (Marvel and Lucasfilm/Star Wars, especially.)

It makes it bad that your ship isn't canon instead of bad that there haven't been any queer romances on screen in the MCU.

And like, as a writer myself, I find myself dissecting the stories of other media all the time. I can watch an MCU movie or series and pretty much assess what direction the story is going in by the narrative points they're hitting. I knew Sylki was basically gonna happen (even if just a kiss) because narratively, that's what the show was doing as soon as they had that "what is love" conversation on Lamentis-1. It didn't mean I liked it. But I knew it was happening.

Similarly, there's no romantic undertones to Loki and Mobius. None. For Marvel to make them a couple, it would mean they'd be doing it simply because the two present as men and it would make stans happy. And while there's something to be said for fan service, it would be annoying to watch them cram two guys together who aren't romantic in the slightest. I'd much rather see Loki meet some guy and have the same type of undertones they were giving to Sylvie and form a real bond to where the kiss feels earned and warranted. Not just put him with the nearest man because "he gay lol."

And how you guys are claiming it's being queer that makes you want this is beyond me. It's not being queer that makes you want this. I don't want queer characters that fuck everyone of whatever gender(s) they're attracted to even when it doesn't make sense for them to. I want real love stories. I mean, yeah, sometimes we can have a slut character, because that's fun, too, but that's not even what y'all think Lokius is. You seem to want them to be in love. But why? Because he's the first friend Loki made that isn't through Thor?

I hate that, too, because I hate this idea that queer people cannot have friends of their same gender without wanting to fuck them. IDK how y'all are, maybe y'all are like that, but I almost never have wanted to fuck any of my friends. The only few exceptions have been when I tried to befriend someone I had a crush on (in which case, usually the friendship can't work, really, because I have a crush on them.) I also think it's okay if you can have casual sex with friends, or if you have a friendship that develops into romance, but Jesus, do you people not have friends that you don't want to fuck? I am bi, maybe more pan (gender kind of doesn't matter to me, I guess) and I'm friends with people of all kinds of gender identities and like... I love them as people, which is why they're my friends, but I DO NOT want to fuck them. Especially my closest friend. I talked about her, before, here, but she's like my sister. The thought of fucking her is gross, to me. Not because she's gross, but because it feels incestuous.

Loki shouldn't want to fuck Mobius just because they developed a friendship. And that's very much how it's written on the series. They almost dislike each other (or Mobius is at least indifferent to Loki) and then they become friends.

That's not to mention the power dynamic that exists, there. And I know some of y'all are subs, but yeah, it's a bit gross to imply a sexual relationship with Loki's captor.

But on to Sylki. It sucks that I feel like most of y'all hate Sylki because Sylvie is a girl, and not just because it's bad in other ways. Like, the reasons Sylki is bad have less to do with "it should have been Mobius" and more to do with it being a lazy 1980s action movie plot that should have never happened. I'm not as creeped out by the selfcest (as many of you wouldn't have been if she was a he, I'm almost positive), but what's bad about it is that they couldn't have a strong female lead character without her being the love interest of the main guy. She didn't need to be, especially because she was a Loki variant, anyway. There was no need for it to have romantic undertones, and there was no need for them to kiss. It was sexist more than it was homophobic (and I can't help feeling like y'all are kind of being biphobic in this case. Maybe I'll talk about that, later, but yeah.) It was sexist bullshit. And there's valid criticism that Sylvie is underdeveloped. She's just angry and something for Loki to project affection onto.

I was also hoping they'd do a "found family" type of thing with Sylvie and Loki and let her be like the sister he never knew he needed, but no, they had to go trope and make her the love interest. It was lazy and bad and basically went "If Loki girl, main Loki want bone!"

Basically, having the main character fall for a character just because of their proximity and gender is bad and I hate it (and it would have been bad with Mobius, too, but yeah.)

Both the Mobius and the Sylvie thing also feel kind of racist, to me, because the show has prominent Black women who aren't even presented as desirable to Loki. And y'all, of course, ship him with anyone but the Women of Color. Y'all can pull true love with Mobius out of your ass, but he couldn't possibly fall for the Black women. lol.

Anyway. Not every show needs ships, and this show shouldn't have had any. I hate it. It's bad.

I guess on the biphobia front, I have heard some takes that it's not biphobic because Loki being queer in the MCU which hasn't shown any queer relationships, and Loki being the first openly queer character means they shouldn't have shown him with a woman presenting character. Which, I guess I get where you're coming from... but I have also been in fandoms for a long time and I see mostly girls saying this shit, which is what leads me to feel like it's simply jealousy. It happens all the time when a long-beloved single male character/celebrity suddenly starts dating a woman. Everyone hates it. And like, we haven't seen Loki be with ANYONE in the MCU, because mostly he's been doing villainy and his dating life hasn't been relevant. If the demigod says he's bi, he can kiss a woman. Especially a woman version of himself. Like I said, I hate it for other reasons, but pretending it's because he should have kissed Mobius is utterly delusional. He probably shouldn't have kissed anyone. Not in this series. There was no reason for any canon romance, especially because the show has a season 2 and we'll have time to see Loki develop earned, deserved romance with someone.

I'd much rather see them create a character just to be his boyfriend than have y'all push Marvel into making Lokius canon, which is a nonsense ship that only happened because Mobius is the only prominent male-presenting character before we meet the other Lokis.

My sincere wish is for people to remember that their ships are just ships and to enjoy them without getting all self-righteous about it. I TOLD y'all that Lokius wasn't gonna be canon like 4 episodes back, and here y'all are acting shocked and like Marvel took something from you. NOBODY expected y'all to ship Lokius. It's not even queerbait.

You can make clear arguments as to why Sambucky was queerbait. It's there in undertones in the actual series.

You cannot watch Loki and tell me you thought it was queerbait, unless you think men can't have conversations or hug goodbye without being romantically involved. Which means, in my opinion, that you need to learn about healthy masculinity.

Again, this is not a defense of Marvel. They DO need to let characters be queer, for real, and not just by saying " A bit of both". Like, let Loki be queer. Let Deadpool be queer. Let these queer characters be queer on screen. Yes.

But please stop making it about your ship. I'd rather see a flashback of Loki dating a guy and see him kiss someone he loved back on Asgard than watch y'all force Lokius. Because my queer rep is not about your crackship. It really isn't. And the fact that y'all keep calling us homophobic for not liking your ship REALLY needs to be addressed.

Like, when will y'all stop? I got on Stucky shippers about this shit in the past. All of us gay as hell, too, we just don't like YOUR ship. A lot of us like other queer ships. A lot of us like queer ships in other fandoms, too, and even have queer OCs. YOUR ship just ain't it. Stop forcing it. Literally, most of the ship wars between MCU fans have been queer ship vs queer ship, not really queer ship vs straight ship. Like, the number one Stucky rival ship was Stony. Not Steggy. People are not homophobic for not wanting your ship.

Sometimes it's because they ship something else.

And sometimes, like me, it's because they want something to make sense narratively and not happen for the sake of it happening. It's always better writing to have a character meetcute a new love interest than to magically turn a platonic friendship into a romantic relationship. Like, even when the characters are straight. Like, when Moesha dated Hakeem. It was just weird, even if he was kind of a great boyfriend. He was just supposed to be her friend, and people didn't really like it because it didn't fit narratively.

And that's why ships for the most part should be left to fanfiction, with the exception of a few where fans are right to call out the writers for not making it canon because it's clearly bait (like what happened to Destiel shippers. To see Lokius shippers compare themselves to THAT was so ridiculous. Destiel shippers had a decade of evidence only to be let down by a criminally unfair ending. Lokius shippers saw two men have a deep conversation once and lost their minds.)

Anyway, I'm not saying don't ship Lokius. I don't even hate it, really. I just think it obviously shouldn't be canon, and fans pretending like they were robbed of it is ridiculous. Literally, Ao3 exists for this reason. I will never see Steve fuck Sam Wilson, so I wrote it into my fanfic. I am not mad that they didn't actually date in the main MCU storyline.

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