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rena-rain · 5 years

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Evidence for ADHD Marinette

Marinette has some tendencies in the show - that she does over and over again - that scream ADHD to me. Obviously I can’t cite every single instance in the show that points toward that, but here are some examples of ADHD traits/symptoms Marinette repeatedly exhibits on screen.

Forgetfulness, Time Management

Forgetting things. A hallmark of ADHD.

Let’s look at Timebreaker. Mari was all set to do her homework and wait for her parents’ client, completely forgetting that she was supposed to bring a banner for a race between her friends Kim and Alix - across town. Alya calling her at all didn’t even remind her, she had to be told explicitly what was happening before she remembered. Then proceeded to freak out because she’d accidentally made two commitments at the same time.

Marinette completely spaced on the race, even though it was important to her, because there was something else right in front of her: homework, her parents’ anniversary, and the Eiffel Tower cake. She was then certain that she could make it to the race and still be back at the bakery to meet Mrs. Chamack - which was a resounding NOT for anyone who watched the episode. The only way she got away with it was by literally being in two places at once. ADHD often comes with a bad sense of time, so while 20 minutes probably felt like enough time to Marinette it passed way more quickly than anticipated.

Forgetfulness, Distractability

Ah, another instance of Alya reminding Mari of her plans. In this case she’d lost track of time because of the Adrien ad playing on a loop on her computer - to the point that she was still not dressed even though all her friends were out and about (including the ones waiting for her at the pool).

As soon as she realized she was very late, Mari grabbed her stuff and sprinted out of her house without changing out of her pajamas. Even when Tikki told her she was forgetting something she’d jumped to the wrong conclusion - although she may very well have forgotten both her swim suit and to change.

Impulsivity, Creativity

Marinette improvises all the time. And she has a habit of diving headfirst into dangerous, crazy plans. The girl was facing down a T. Rex headfirst in Animan, and when she got her lucky charm her weird, creative problem-solving skills told her to jump into its mouth and jam it open.

In general, I think her use of the lucky charms indicates a wild creativity that’s characteristic of ADHD. Current research shows a very high correlation between ADHD and creative personalities, and Dr. William Dodson (who has been studying ADHD for 25 years) has found that “by the time most people with the condition reach high school, they are able to tackle problems that stump everyone else, and can jump to solutions that no one else saw.”

Marinette exhibits this surprising and unorthodox problem solving when she spots a series of seemingly unrelated objects that will somehow end the fight. Take Copycat for example. She got a freaking SPOON and she decided to make it into a homemade fishing rod to hoist the fake Chat Noir into the air by his belt. WHAT EVEN

more Impulsivity

Even before she got comfortable in her skin-tight supersuit, Marinette did demonstrate an inclination to take impulsive risks in the origins episode. Master Fu tested her by deliberately walking in front of a moving car to see if she’d save him.

There was no hesitation here. She saw Fu, saw the car, and immediately ran out to pull him to safety. The whole thing happened in a few seconds. Obviously this action was motivated by her inherent kindness; she didn’t do a dangerous thing because it was dangerous. Plenty of good people (none of whom seemed to be at the crosswalk that day, they all noticed nothing) would have wanted to do something but hesitated, or not reacted in time.

Not Marinette. While she was clearly scared for him, the high stakes of the situation didn’t faze her; she just acted instinctively. According to Dr. Dale Archer, ADHD brains do well under pressure, because high-stress situations get the dopamine flowing and those levels make them snap to attention.

Time Management, Impulsivity (again)

In Lady Wifi, Marinette ran into class late for no indicated reason, something she does frequently (and only sometimes it’s because of Ladybug duties) to the point where her chronic tardiness becomes a running gag. This is an extension of her inability to judge time accurately as discussed above.

Also demonstrated in this episode, ADHD’ers will often have outbursts and accidentally say things without thinking. Upon learning what happened to Alya from Nino, she lost control and shouted “What?!?!?!” not once, but TWICE. It could also allude to emotional dysregulation (a less-known ADHD symptom) because she was unable to keep her emotional reactions to her friend getting in trouble under control.

Hyperfixation, Emotional Dysregulation

Hey, remember when Marinette was so absorbed in that Adrien ad that she forgot about her friends and her clothes? I think the Adrien video hit her with a double whammy, because she’s deeply infatuated with him and this new thing about the guy she likes ensnared her attention.

So Marinette is obsessed with Adrien, right? I’m sure most of us would fawn over a new ad starring our crush-who’s-also-a-model. But she has a one-track mind when it comes to him. Hyperfixation is an extremely intense obsession and focus on a subject, and I think her crush can qualify because it tends to dominate her life and attention. While many things may be difficult for Marinette to maintain focus on, ADHD is great for focusing on things that are interesting, challenging, and new. So when that beautiful ad showed up, this new thing related to her fixation pushed all the happy dopamine buttons in her brain. She obviously finds Adrien interesting because she’s interested in him, and she keeps trying to get him to notice her romantically and that’s definitely a challenge.

If you’d like/need another example of Marinette hyperfixating on something, I give you: fashion. Okay, maybe that’s more of a passion than a fixation, but the episode Mr. Pigeon DID give us a hyperfocusing Marinette when she spent hours and hours on end designing and making the derby hat for Gabriel Agreste’s competition.

Moving on to emotional dysregulation. We’ve seen Marinette overreact to Alya being mistreated in Lady Wifi. Even casual watchers of Miraculous will know that Marinette has similarly powerful reactions to feelings and events concerning Adrien. I can’t even begin to count the number of times she's screamed around him.

Remember that time she publicly yelled at Lila in Volpina? Her jealousy and annoyance at her lies completely dictated her decisions here and she went way overboard - as Adrien was quick to tell her. She laid into her. NOT normal behavior for Marinette when she has her head on straight. Tikki sure wasn’t supportive of Marinette using Ladybug like this.

Tikki also wasn’t too pleased when she used her lucky charm to break up Adrien and Chloe slow dancing at his birthday party. This is another time her jealousy overtook her.

And one more little overreaction here. In Copycat, Marinette was totally spiraling in true melodramatic fashion about the consequences of stealing a phone. She imagined a life sentence. This is characteristic of how ADHD’ers often have trouble regulating emotions, leading to overblown responses to various stressors. Is it just me, or does she get particularly worked up when she’s fantasizing (both good and bad)?

I can’t find a picture for it, but another time Marinette was reacting very strongly to a predicament was in Mr. Pigeon when she paced back and forth, flipping through her sketchbook, and ranted at Alya about how difficult a derby hat design would be. She was pretty disheartened by her lack of immediate inspiration; she was even curled up on the bench dejectedly while Alya tried to help her.

It’s also worth mentioning that she totally ran into a wall after Adrien complimented her drawings.

I could add more, but this post is already basically an essay and I think you get the point. If you share the ADHD Marinette headcanon do please add any examples you think of!

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miraculouscontent · 5 years

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Kwami Buster reaction/analysis please!!!

You got it!

This episode is fun. Like, it’s a lot of fun. It feels like it’s been a while since I just had fun with an episode (I know this season doesn’t have a wide range to choose from there - probably still going to die when attempting to pick a top 5 - but still).

[Kwamitruster]

Just to start off, I’m legitimately surprised that it took this long to get a Ms. Mendeleiev akumatization. On the very small list of people I’ve been waiting to see akumatized, Ms. Mendeleiev has been on it since Season 1 and it’s almost weird that it took this much time considering that she’s basically the school’s only other notable teacher.

Of course, with kwami being what she was seeking before being akumatized… yeah, definitely makes sense for a season 3 episode.

I also enjoy that Ms. Mendeleiev is a bit hammy as Kwamibuster even though I question why in the world she’d go on a show like that to get an important theory out there; maybe she was just that desperate and they were the only ones who’d have her, who knows.

Kwamibuster also almost killed Alec so, y’know, that was great too.

AND MORE TIKKI AND PLAGG INTERACTIONS, YES.

I know we got some in episodes like “Sandboy” and “Reflekdoll”, but this is the prime Tikki-Plagg episode (which… yeah, granted, makes total sense considering kwami is in the darn title). It’s a little more of the same we’ve already seen, with Tikki just being like ugh Plagg why, but this expands on it a bit and has them meeting multiple times and also on Marinette’s balcony, which is nice.

And Marinette isn’t the one blamed for stuff this time, finally–

LIKE, REALLY, LEMME JUST SAY: it was so satisfying to see Marinette stay mad at Tikki for a bit (I was upset too when she tried to brush it off as “kwami nonsense” like excuse me???), and especially for Tikki to actually apologize in the end.

I do wish there was a little more on Plagg, but he does get berated a lot already so it was probably not even worth mentioning after the fact.

By the way, I choked with laughter as Adrien tried to scold SOMEONE ELSE for being irresponsible and almost getting captured. Dude, have you LOOKED in a mirror lately?

I guess the conflict concerning Tikki though is more about how believable it is that Tikki would do this sort of thing. It’s already one character flaw that Tikki seemed to have a hard time admitting that she made a mistake, but for Marinette to basically tell Tikki about how much she trusts Tikki and how she can be herself around Tikki, just for Tikki to not even look immediately guilty…

Yeah, that’s… not Tikki’s best moment there. I really think that Marinette bit wasn’t needed and made Tikki look worse than she needed to.

And speaking of Marinette–

[Mari-Net Result]

THE MIRACULOUS QUEEN HAS ARRIVED AND WE HAVE BEEN GRACED WITH HER PRESENCE.

So, not only does this episode have great Plagg-Tikki interactions, but it’s also Marinette doing one of the many things that Marinette does best. Before she’s even left Fu’s home, she’s already got her entire plan figured out to the last detail, and all we’re told about is her intending to let herself get captured, so we’re just left to guess until we see everything unfold.

And what a great bonus it was to see her wearing so many miraculouses at once. I always feel particularly spoiled when we get to see the design of various miraculouses (like how Adrien’s snake miraculous is really smooth and rounded while Luka’s has little ridges on them, then Marinette’s has a snake-inspired design that looks different enough from the miraculous itself).

(also, side-note: considering how different most of those miraculouses look on Marinette, I’m pretty sure the fox was intentionally similar to the original because she had to transform with it, so it had to be recognizable enough to the viewing audience; I imagine it might look different if she ever has the chance to use just the fox, but that’ll probably never happen)

Plus, there’s just something inherently perfect about the girl who can have 2928374 tasks at any given time using a miraculous that has the power to divide yourself so you can accomplish multiple tasks.

She should honestly keep it just for personal use.

And basically all of the miraculouses are very Marinette, like the ram miraculous becoming bows (is that a reference to that one 3D model of hers with the single bow? I hope so) and most of the miraculouses getting a pink/rose-gold color to them.

…She also looks so silly yet somehow so precious wearing them, of course.

Anarka would be proud, just sayin’. Have you SEEN all the accessories that woman wears?

…Actually, imagine Anarka with all the miraculouses. Like, don’t even take off the jewelry she already wears.

…I’m getting off-topic.

I think it’s interesting that Wayzz seems to have a lot of faith in Marinette compared to Master Fu. I mean, it makes total sense given “Feast”, which showed that Wayzz thinks things through a lot more than Fu, and… I don’t know. It’s just really sweet to see Wayzz believing in Marinette so strongly, and I already like Wayzz in general so it warmed my heart.

By the way, just a quick hooray for Multifox too, who is USING MIRAGE LIKE IT SHOULD BE USED; WHEN YOU’RE HIDDEN AWAY AND NO ONE CAN SEE YOU.

And… yeah, I know that we should probably see more instances of her being exhausted from using multiple miraculouses. I do think that her falling down before she’s even left the house set some expectations, and most other instances are either implied (i.e: the icons for the kwami starting to become more and more shattered the more she unifies) or is just Multifox slowly stepping out, hunched over and looking tired (which did at least make sense since she was the one unified the longest). She does get carried by the kwami throughout most of the episode so I’m not really that bothered about it, even with Fu and Wayzz talking about how special she is (this is always what I mean when I say that her crush on Adrien and her anxiety/clumsiness are massive nerfs that she needs; this girl would destroy the world otherwise).

But, of course, I can’t talk about Marinette wearing all these miraculouses and having this big plan and all these other things without talking about why she’s doing these things.

[Mousetrap]

Alright, everyone knew I couldn’t gush for long forever. Let’s get this over with.

The main thing that brings this episode down - and brings it down hard - is the identity shenanigans. Identity stuff has always been a sore spot in the fandom and this episode keeps poking and prodding at that spot like they’re trying to win an award for it.

It’s this whole thing about “giving up your miraculous” if you find out someone’s identity.

Marinette points it out to Tikki.

Plagg mentions it to Adrien.

Fu implies it to Marinette.

And then Tikki brings it up to Marinette.

Four instances in one episode. One would’ve already been distracting enough but this is four. Like, that’s already dumb, but the logic behind it makes no sense.

First off, the obvious: Ladybug and Chat Noir have been doing this for three seasons. I presume that Marinette would’ve just continued her guardian training had she found out Adrien was Chat, but still, she’s been Ladybug for a long while now and she’s good at it.

It just seems like the show only brought it up to make a point about why Marinette and Adrien specifically can’t know each other’s identities, but having it be mentioned four times and leaving so many holes just has it looking like a desperate attempt. Being so quick in an episode to essentially say, “Hey! If this one thing happens, prepare for two and a half seasons of content to suddenly mean a lot less!” was undeniably going to make people upset (think “Weredad”, but for identities instead of romance).

Secondly, yes, in a theoretical sense, someone figuring out someone’s identity may very well mean that they purposefully tried to figure out their identity, so they should get their miraculous revoked, but that is not such a simple case.

Let’s say that Chat just de-transformed in front of Ladybug. That would technically qualify since now Ladybug knows his identity, so should she get her miraculous revoked because someone else revealed themself and she couldn’t have controlled that?

Not only that, but it was Plagg’s fault that this happened and it’s hard to not let one’s mind wander. It’s not either Adrien nor Marinette’s fault if they’d accidentally figured each other out; it would be Plagg’s.

Thirdly, I am baffled at the idea that figuring out someone’s identity means that the person who figured it out gets their miraculous revoked. That just seems like a recipe for disaster, especially when the rule for temporary heroes (we’ll get to that, by the way) is that one can’t have the miraculous back if anyone else knows their identities.

Getting a miraculous revoked risks akumatization from the negative emotions that would stir up, and that akumatized person could very well just tell Hawk Moth about the identity of the hero they’d figured out, then everything is ruined, just like that.

And no, it’s not fair for, say, Marinette’s miraculous to get revoked because Adrien - hypothetically - went out of his way to discover her identity, but that’s the logical path to take if one is going to pull this “identity reveal = miraculous revoked” card.

Plus, if miraculouses were all about being fair, Chloe never would’ve gotten hers back.

The idea behind protecting one’s identity has always been about “protecting loved ones” or whatever, but then this episode comes along and takes the opposite stance, which is just confusing. It’s as if the rules apply differently just because one has a permanent miraculous, like, “oh, your loved ones would be in danger if they knew, but you won’t get your miraculous taken unless you figure out another hero’s identity.”

…Now, that said, even though that identity thing bothers me in the episode, the identity thing that doesn’t bother me here is when “Ladybug” tells “Marinette” that she can’t get the mouse miraculous back because Chat saw her.

The reason it doesn’t is because it’s not important for us as an audience to believe that Marinette wouldn’t be allowed to have the miraculous back. We already know that Marinette is Ladybug so she can’t really get the mouse back unless there are very specific circumstances involved.

The important thing is for Chat to believe that Marinette can’t get the mouse back and also that Marinette is not Ladybug.

Chat doesn’t know that Rena Rouge and Carapace know each other’s identities.

Max couldn’t have gone into the next room had he not been given the horse.

Chat can’t bring up Viperion without revealing that he’s Adrien (and Ladybug doesn’t know he’s Adrien either, nor is expecting him to be Chat, so she couldn’t make that connection). Not only that, but Adrien didn’t technically see Luka transform into Viperion, so plausible deniability there.

Ryuko hasn’t even happened yet because Fu isn’t on the run yet in “Kwamibuster.”

In addition, “Party Crasher” hasn’t happened (Fu is on the run then) so Chat hasn’t seen Viperion nor Pegase return as heroes. A hero being picked once doesn’t mean that they’ll be picked again, and Fu could’ve just said, “oh, I picked these heroes and it was an emergency.”

Also, it wasn’t just Chat who was there. Ms. Mendeleiev was there as well, and she’d just tried to out the existence of kwami. It was absolutely a mistake on the storyboarders’ parts to not show Mendeleiev being there as well until Mendeleiev approaches Chat, but she was indeed there and she would’ve seen Multimouse de-transform into Marinette as well.

It was also absolutely in-character for Marinette to have this big elaborate plan to clear her as Ladybug whereas Adrien was just like, “um–elementary school?” (he did actually call it a high school earlier but meh, details), so that was a bonus.

But… yeah, no, the episode is definitely not perfect. I mean, just off the top of my head:

- The show Ms. Mendeleiev is on is only fun because of the students’ reactions to it. I didn’t laugh at all otherwise.

- Marinette and Adrien do a similar ramble-y thing back to back which was already done in “Frozer” and I still don’t like it.

- I legitimately don’t know how to feel about Adrien only presuming that Marinette is Ladybug because of what he saw and not because he sees similarities between them. I mean, in a way, I’m glad I get to pile on more evidence to the “Desperada” stuff that was already there but this kid has like, no reaction to the idea that one of his friends is Ladybug. I’m not surprised exactly, but… I’m confused?

- Still going off of Adrien, Chat INTERRUPTS THE BATTLE TO TALK WHICH DISTRACTS LADYBUG ENOUGH FOR HER TO GET SHOT–I mean, like, Adrien/Chat is MOSTLY tolerable in this episode (”Awesome plan, girls!” was nice to hear) but I’d be lying if I said that moment didn’t grate a little on me. Save your internal struggle for patrol, Chat.

- Multimouse’s transformation track is AWESOME but the fact that she holds her pose while the background is still moving at the end looks strange to me when basically all other transformations have the pose and background freeze at almost the exact same time.

- Multimouse’s mask breaks in the model multiple times throughout the episode and it’s really distracting. Also, judging by the shot with Adrien giving Multimouse the ring, I think they shrunk the ring just slightly to fit around her waist, so her model size can sometimes be inconsistent.

- I want to know more about how Multitude works. Like, the dividing of it makes total sense, but can Marinette pick the size she wants? She divides into basically exactly enough Marinette to fit into the kwami mouths, and the fact that she’s the perfect size for it seems too convenient unless there’s a height limit based on how many multiples she has but she can go smaller if she wants. Does the division start at the height of her glowing white legs, so no Multimouse divided could be taller than that, and that’s why the division doesn’t seem to be based on her full height?? I NEED ANSWERS!!!

- I–I just… can we talk about “the mouth thing” in this show? I don’t want to say the cursed “v” word but with Gigantitan almost eating people and the actual POV shots for it, and now Multimouse riding in multiple kwami mouths (additional mention to that gross thing the Astruc head did in “The Puppeteer 2″), I’m just really weirded out, man! Like, can we not????

- I’m still mildly confused about how unifying and dividing works. I mean, unifying, not so much, since it seems like a very basic, “say the name of the new kwami and then the kwami you’re already transformed with, then unify”, but dividing is still weird. Like, after some thought, the best I can muster is that you say the name of the kwami you’re transformed with, then the kwami you’re taking away (as seen in, “Mullo, Trixx, divide!” and, “Mullo, Plagg, divide!”), unless you have to take away the kwami you’re transformed with, in which case you only say their name (”Mullo, divide!” and she becomes Ladybug instead of Multimouse). I feel like just saying the name of the kwami you want taken away should be enough and also be not as confusing, because I keep thinking that it’s an error (ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY SAY “TOPPO” AND NOT “MULLO” AND THEN DON’T EVEN GET THE KWAMI RIGHT WITH THE ICON USED FOR THEM).

- We didn’t see much of Mullo because the episode wastes so much time on characters talking. We see Mullo once when Ladybug divides them and then again when all the kwami are flying off with her, but that’s it. I presume they’re saving Mullo for the “official” mouse holder but still, just a line from Mullo would’ve been nice.

Ultimately, I think how one views the episode really depends on how much they’re taken by plot and lore. If one likes it for flavor, I think they’ll find the episode to be fun, but if details are important, I think it’ll be a little more frustrating.

For me personally, I can just edit out the identity mentions tune out the stuff that bothers me, because the main part of this episode that I focus on is the fun of Tikki-Plagg shenanigans and BLESSED QUEEN MININETTE.

It has a lot of flaws (I mean, I just went on for a good while about things that were probably nitpicks but still noticeable on first viewing), but… I dunno.

I like it. I think an episode like “Startain” is technically better put together plot-wise and has fewer things to complain about, but I like “Kwamibuster” more because it’s more fun overall.

#((This one took a while just because I don't have a lot of salt for it tbh.))#category: positivity #category: critique #category: salt #episode: Kwamibuster #other: ask and answer

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purrincess-chat · 6 years

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You're absolutely right lol why is it that the main female is always expected to grow and take responsibility for her emotions, even when she’s not at all in the wrong but when the guy is acting up it's cuz of his "man pain" and any bad behavior isn’t his fault and he’s immediately emphasized with. Because, oh, all of his wrong doings are the reflection of the world’s, not him. This “girls are flawed for having emotions and boys are not” trope is annoying and not at all a good message for girls

So, I’ve put off commenting on all of this for a few days because I wanted to see what other things came out of it and take time to stew over my opinions and give Thomas a chance to potentially explain himself further. Gonna include a bulk of this under the cut because I don’t know how long it will be. It’s just gonna be a mixture of me rambling about my thoughts and being a little salty. Not too much I don’t think, I dunno we’ll see when we get there. (spoiler I get kind of salty… and by kind of I mean a lot)

For anyone who doesn’t know what this refers to, a few days ago someone asked Thomas on Twitter what he considered to be Adrien and Marinette’s biggest flaws to which he replied that Marinette has “poor control of her emotions” and that “Adrien is perfect. But his flaw comes from the fact he’s not accustomed to the “ outside” world. His innocence makes him vulnerable. To sum it up: he’ s not flawed. The world is.”

This did not sit very well with fans who are already not too pleased with Thomas and his treatment of certain characters, for good reason. It does come off as misogynistic, and even if he is just trolling and not being serious, why does he want to troll in such a way that he comes off as misogynistic when he’s supposed to be writing a cartoon that empowers girls? Salt under the cut: (seriously, the Dead Sea ain’t got nothing on this salt)

For me, this didn’t surprise me too much because Thomas has always spouted shit and come off as extremely rude and belittling to fans even if they aren’t doing anything wrong or being aggressive, i.e. this fan who just asked him for his opinions, not even asking for spoilers, and who genuinely wanted to chat with him about his show. I could write novels about how un-progressive this show is and all of the unconscious misogyny that’s in it, which Thomas will deny wholeheartedly, and actually did in this same thread. I don’t know whether or not he genuinely doesn’t realize that his episodes are riddled with internalized misogyny or if he just doesn’t care? Because many times throughout both s1 and s2, male characters acting problematically have been glazed over, and not just in Adrien’s case, whereas females, typically Marinette, get a much harsher treatment when shown in similar circumstances. Females (Marinette) are often made out to apologize for other characters wrongs and their actions are blown way out of proportion when they do even the tiniest thing wrong.

Take Glaciator, for example: Ladybug tells Chat straight up that she probably won’t make it because she already has other plans. Chat still gets his hopes up and believes she will come which that in and of itself isn’t necessarily wrong, but when she doesn’t show up, which he knew she might and was even reminded by Plagg that she didn’t say yes, gets angry and throws a temper tantrum at her for not showing up when she told him from the beginning that she probably wouldn’t. And then SHE has to apologize to him sincerely and practically plead with him for forgiveness and in turn all she gets is a *shrug* Sorry. Maybe next time. What is the message you are hoping to convey with this, Thomas? “Women should be more decisive when giving men answers?” We aren’t fucking psychics. She didn’t know how her evening was going to play out and if she’d have time to show up. “She didn’t say no.” Yeah, but not saying no isn’t automatically a yes. That’s how most men get convicted of rape. Didn’t say no =/= yes. “I really wanted you to show up and when you didn’t that hurt my man feelings because you didn’t say no, so I got my little hopes up.” Cry me a river. Really couldn’t care less. Like real talk, if a man ever pulled that shit on me I’d block his ass to hell. If I explicitly state that I probably won’t make it, and then some asshole gets upset when I definitely do not just because I didn’t say no? Bitch, bye??? You are not entitled to my time, and if that’s the attitude you’re going to have then you are not worth my time. But ohhh Chat is such a sad, pouty cinnamon roll whose daddy doesn’t love him enough to eat dinner with him, boo-hoo.

Not to mention at the end when Ladybug tells him they can’t be together for very legit reasons like, um, the safety of everyone they care about, Adrien is just like *sigh* I’ll just keep hoping. Like bitch she rejected you. Move on. That exact mindset of “if I keep trying maybe she’ll eventually love me back” is exactly why women feel unsafe to walk the streets at night because men feel like if they keep pestering women that eventually they’ll see the error of their ways. Which just no. That’s obsessive as fuck and men often get really violent with women when they eventually don’t like them back. (not saying that Adrien would, he’d probably just throw another hissy fit and take off his ring) But this show is aimed at children, and that’s not a good message to teach boys who are not Adrien and won’t necessarily react the way Adrien did. If a girl rejects you, move the fuck on. She doesn’t owe you shit just because you like her, and your continued advances will likely only make her uncomfortable and less inclined to like you back. Reminds me of a post I’ve seen where someone’s teenage nephew talks about how a girl rejected him, and when the aunt asks him what he’s gonna do he says “keep trying” and she’s like bitch, no. Leave her alone, and it blows his fucking mind. Men are constantly reinforced on this “keep trying until she says yes” mindset, and it’s honestly why violence against women is so prevalent. Because manbabies never get told that women don’t owe them affection or sex or whatever the fuck they want. And you know when a good time to teach them how to respect a woman’s boundaries is? When they’re children.

“But I was talking about Adrien, not Chat Noir.” Yes. Thomas actually legit separates the two in this instance. I’m not making it up. Mr. Ship Wars are stupid because Adrien and Chat are the same person has separated the two as not the same person. It doesn’t matter if they’re “treated differently”. Chat’s flaws are Adrien’s flaws and vice versa. They’re both petty and jealous. (And, no, Adrien defense squad, I don’t hate him as a character or even think he’s a bad person. Recognizing character flaws isn’t the same as hating. Unclench)

This isn’t a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde situation where the two halves function separately and have no recollection afterward. Taking off the mask doesn’t suddenly make all of those flaws disappear. It also doesn’t make sense based on his earlier reasoning that “Adrien doesn’t know how the world works” does that mean Chat fucking does? Shouldn’t Chat be excused from his wrongdoings by that logic because he also doesn’t know how the world works and is just as naive as Adrien? You can’t say one identity is perfect while the other is flawed. People don’t work that way. Characterization doesn’t work that way. A character is still inherently the same character regardless of whether or not they’re secretly a superhero. Superman is still Superman regardless of whether or not he’s got his fucking glasses on. Hell, a whole plot point in Antibug was that Marinette is a hero with or without her mask. Don’t pull this bullshit, Thomas. It’s not believable, and you haven’t supported it in canon. In fact, you’ve unsupported it in canon.

“Ladybug and Chat Noir are supposed to represent yin/yang.” Okay, yes, that’s a motif we’ve picked up on like since episode 1. Cool, but still doesn’t make up for shitty characterization. “I have a personal theory” okay, cool motive, but still shittily executed. Your personality doesn’t magically fucking change just because you’re in a new situation. Who you are as a person is constant. Your reaction might change as a result of the circumstances you find yourself in, but who you are does not just change because you put on a mask. Someone who knows fuck all about the world doesn’t suddenly learn how to function just because he gets superpowers. “People are constantly fluctuating” please, do the world a favor, and take a class in personality. That’s not even an insult. Like there are literally classes out there that teach about how personality works. I’ve taken them, so I know they exist.

I’ve also mentioned before that I’m not a fan of Thomas’s whole “puzzle-piece” plot line because it doesn’t fucking make sense. Like I could be okay with it, if it made sense, but it doesn’t fucking make sense. It’s like he dumped 6 puzzles together and told the audience “here, figure it out” and like that’s exhausting. If I wanted to build a puzzle, I’d go build one (assuming my cat doesn’t absolutely destroy it). And if I as an adult have problems keeping up with your plot and character development (which is only present if you squint) what makes you think a child can keep up with it? My niece who just turned 9 calls your shit out for not adding up. Don’t say kids don’t notice or care. Cause if you give them good media to consume, they notice when something is bad. Seek to raise kid’s standards of what a good show looks like. Don’t use them as a crutch to be lazy.

“Plot driven kids shows don’t do well.” Um, bitch wanna give some examples? Cause I can give some examples of many beloved childhood shows of mine that have a cohesive plot. ATLA, for example. Everyone fucking loves it. MLP is another one I enjoy which does still have “lesson of the day” set-up but at least those lessons come into play later?? Like I think it was s4 or s5 where they all got some friendship object that ended up being a key later in the finale. So all of those episodes then had a purpose outside of the token friendship lesson of the day. Didn’t particularly matter what order you saw those episodes in for the most part, but you could see a progression of the characters and plot the whole time. You knew things were important to the overall plot of the season, and the development of those characters actually sticks around for more than just that episode. Kids can handle shit. Look at the latest Incredibles movie. I never once had trouble keeping up as a kid when watching plot driven shows. Not once. Saying it’s a kids show is a cop out. It’s an excuse, and a bad one at that. And that’s not even to say that the other things I listed are perfect either. They have their problems, but they dull in comparison.

Thomas also tried to boast some shit about how they show guys and girls being akumatized and emotional equally, and I’m like we’re not talking about background people, Tommy. We’re talking about your leads and how unbalanced they are and how you hold one to a higher condemnation than the other. Because one has daddy issues and conveniently happens to coincidentally be a boy. But he gets a free pass because he’s sheltered. Yes, and who made him so sheltered, Tommy? Who made that executive decision? Who decided to give him all of these excuses for his behavior? Who in turn decided to make everything the girl does her fault even if she’s right? Who also calls himself “Hawkmoth,” (and has always used the nickname Hawkdaddy) a villain established to be a neglectful, emotionally abusive, and controlling father bent on something that isn’t entirely clear and willing to allow his son to be in danger multiple times to achieve that something, meanwhile two teenage girls are the worst things you could think of because they’re bratty and they lie, and anyone who sympathizes with them are just fooled by their good looks? Cool. #female empowerment, am I right?

Honestly, I could dissect every single thing Thomas said throughout this discourse but truthfully it’s tiring, annoying, and frankly he contradicts himself way too much I could just write a book if I actually cared enough about him. At this point things that he says doesn’t really surprise me anymore because I’ve just accepted that he’s got loads of internalized misogyny, borderline narcissism, and just overall isn’t worth anyone’s time. Bitching at him is never going to change his mind because he doesn’t believe he’s done anything wrong. It’s why I say that Adrien is his self-insert OC. He’s a perfect little golden boy who never does anything wrong, and if he does, it’s the world’s fault, not his. Sounds a lot like how Thomas approaches anyone who tells him what they understood from his writing because it’s fucking there whether he realizes it or not.

(Tl;dr I guess) My advice to anyone who read this far is this: Ignore the fuck out of Thomas because he’s always gonna be a piece of shit who doesn’t care if you think he’s a piece of shit and actually seems to enjoy people thinking he’s a piece of shit. Lower your expectations for the writing of this show tremendously, basically only subscribe to it for cute interactions every once in a while, and you’ll enjoy it. If you are here for detailed plot or good character development, might I suggest rewatching ATLA? Basically, expect nothing from this show, and you’ll never be disappointed. It’s what I’ve started doing because this ^^^^ is what happens when you pick it apart. And there’s a lot that I left out for time’s sake and because I don’t want to look at this man’s Twitter anymore. I have a migraine.

#salt #like a lot of salt #cat replies

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jellojolteon · 7 years

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Hi! I know you get a lot of asks on the grey long Ay but I was curious about something. How are some of the main characters supposed to get Akumatized. Eg. Nino wanted Adrien to have a birthday party but that didn't happen because Gabe was being a jerk, or Alya when she got Akumatized because she wanted to find out LB secret identity. I know this might be too much to ask but I'll ask anyway. Could you make a master list of how the Champions were made in this AU? (pt. 1)

No, no worries! Every ask I get makes my day! In fact you made my dreams from last night come true by filling my inbox haha ;u;

So as a basic pretense, the champions still come about the same way; the folks who get made into Champions are still upset about something when Greyling reaches them, but it’s the handling thereafter that makes the difference between what Hawkmoth does and what Greyling does. I can still make a master list for you of people who have been akumatized up to S1 (sorry if I miss anyone lol), but there are only a handful of changes.

As for Chloe? An excellent question. I think it’s complicated because she’s still Adrien’s oldest friend and now she’s indirectly doing him a huge favor, but he is also much quicker to wake up to the bully she’d become since he see what she’s like when he “isn’t watching”.

Unfortunately for this end of the story I’m more interested in the interactions between the main three, so it’s likely that a lot of this, if I can get this big ol thing off the ground, won’t make the actual cut.

(See below cut- numbering is not indicative of order, but if order is important I’ll mention it. Also note that this may change in the final go, if I get there.)

1. Stoneheart - This is LB’s first fight against Tux and while the theory of it is the same, Greyling does not exist yet to bring Stoneheart to life. Marinette encourages Ivan much the same way as she does in canon and he and Mylene still get together.

2. Stormy Weather - We’ll go with this one as Greyling’s first Champion. Aurore loses the weathergirl competition, but Adrien tells her that if it’s recognition she’s looking for, he might be able to help. Help he does.

3. Mister Pigeon - Ramier gets chastised by the police for feeding the pigeons. Adrien consoles him (somewhat regrettably considering his allergy) and tells him that pigeons are not inherently bad, and that a good way to show how honorable and invaluable pigeons can be might be for Ramier to help enlist them to fight Tux. This champion marks the beginning of Mari’s internship.

4. Lady Wifi - Alya snoops in Chloe’s locker, she pitches a fit, gets suspended. Greyling comes to her explaining that he knows her intent was innocent, and that if she really wants to show everyone she’s the bigger person, perhaps she can help him fight Tux today. Alya is of course like “oh fuck, I’m communing with my homegirl’s crush” and wholeheartedly agrees. Things look dire, and hers is the first instance of possession we see. I’m going to (unoriginally) henceforth call this special “ability” the Butterfly Effect.

5. The Bubbler - Mari introduces Adrien to Nino and Alya via video chat. Adrien is super excited to have friends and both Nino and Alya want to meet him. Adrien’s birthday is soon and Nino suggests a party. Gabe never yells at him directly but Nino finds out from Adrien that it’s a no and gets upset on Adrien’s behalf. Greyling suggests later, when Tux attacks, that it’s no birthday but hoo boy would Adrien think it great if Nino helped fight one particularly nasty adult. It might help get all those negative vibes out.

6. Copycat - This one might ultimately not happen in the AU, just because the pretense is so intertwined with the canon dynamics.

7. Kung Food - This is the first time LB witnesses and must repair a cataclysm death. Mari is lucky that her Uncle is in town to help her through the experience. Greyling reasons with Kung Food in Chinese (which is much better pronounced than in the show) that the cooking competition isn’t the end of the world, and that he’ll help him get another chance to prove himself in a fair environment.

8. Darkblade - not sure where this one falls, but when D’Argencourt loses the mayoral election, Greyling explains that maybe he can help show Paris true nobility by standing up to another person who has usurped the peace.

9. Vanisher - Greyling catches Sabrina at a low point when Chloe is snubbing her. He points out that there are many many unsung heroes throughout history but if it would help her, he might be able to arrange something that would get her recognized in the form of assisting LB.

10. Antibug - Here’s a fun one! This one doesn’t go super hot but I think this is where Chloe develops a little bit. Greyling tells Chloe that if she really wants to make a good impression on LB, maybe getting in the way isn’t the answer. But what if she was a champion instead? Chloe is too bitter to be working alongside LB at the moment, but things eventually turn out ok, even if it involves Tux getting the upper hand for a bit there.

11. Horrificator - Mylene is scared and Greyling explains that sometimes it takes some help to face your fears. I’ll help you face down the scariest monster in all of Paris, and I assure you that you’ll always be able to face your fears after that. This one is also a bit of a shaky one but it works out ok because as she grows bigger, Tux gets more frightened by her.

12. Timebreaker - another that I’m not sure happens? I feel like time travel is a bit of a slippery slope in this AU for some reason.

13. Princess Fragrance - After Chloe belittles Rose, Greyling compliments her heart and says that helping him fight tux might be a good way to prove Chloe wrong. (Aside: I can’t imagine a lot of these kids would normally have the sense to take down a murderer. But Ladybug hasn’t lost anyone yet and the trust they put in her to keep them safe is immense)

14. Reflekta - You might see that showing Chloe what a good person looks like is a pretty common thread here. Greyling gets good at convincing people that Chloe is wrong and that fighting Tux with the things she demeans about them is a great way to prove it. She slowly learns.

15. Evillustrator - Nath wants a date with Mari, and also for Chloe to Not. This one doesn’t go well.

16. The Puppeteer - This is where Greyling figures out that Tux is his dad. In his rage, he makes a very bad decision to send out Manon after Tux. Granted she’s not doing anything directly but still. Ladybug deadpans him a look through Puppeteer and he has an ‘oh shit’ moment. He pulls her out and goes for Simon Says instead.

17. Simon Says - Adrien isn’t quite ready to let go of his petty yet and this is just as much for himself as it is for Simon. Nooroo and Adrien have an important talk about choosing champions after this battle is over.

18. Heartbreaker - Much of the same spiel about proving Chloe wrong, though I don’t know how his powers could be of threat to Tux. Not sure if this one makes the cut.

19. Rogercop - After getting fired, Greyling hits Roger with the whole “If you really want to serve and protect, boy could I really use your help.” After Roger’s proven bravery against Tux, he regains his job. There are probably more long-winded effects of this in the au but I’ll have to get there before I figure it all out.

20. Animan - When Kim insults Otis’s prized panther, Greyling suggests that maybe a catfight is exactly the kind of shakeup Tux needs, and it would certainly prove Kim’s ridiculous comments wrong. As for Alya and Nino getting together? I can still see them getting locked in the exhibit for their own safety.

21. The Gamer - Mari and Adrien kick ass in a gamer tournament, and Max gets upset because he’s overthrown by someone he’s never even met. Adrien just has a lot of time to play video games when he’s shut in, y’know? But Adrien realizes he may have gone a little too hard and requests Max’s help defeating Tux. He fluffs Max’s confidence by pointing out what a skilled and analytical fighter he is. Ladybug could use someone like that (instead of someone who sits from afar… hm…) in her fights against Tux.

22. Guitar Hero (pffff oops) - “Hey Jagged Stone, you know what would absolutely skyrocket your popularity? Riding around Paris on a DRAGON while blasting a cat man with SOUND WAVES. Does that sound like some killer album art to you? It sure does to me. Also I’ll throw in glowy tentacle hair as a bonus, I’m a big fan of your work actually.”

23. Pixelator - Greyling says, “Hey, man, maybe let the guy have some space, y’know? Being famous is stressful. Here, if you really want to be like him though, help me fight this guy.” Please don’t ask me how that works Greyling just gets real good at his job at some point.

24. The Mime - Fred’s meddling understudy tricks him into missing a performance, but Greyling sees an opportunity for the most kickass show of Fred’s career. He’s not wrong.

25. The Pharaoh - unfortunately, another one I’m not sure happens? Remnants of this ep might be involved though, with Jalil helping LB uncover some of the history of the miraculouses. Looks like the Kubdels get off easy in this story haha

26. Volpina - Lila’s compulsive lying gets her into a sticky situation (probably actually not with LB tho) and Greyling tells her that maybe he can give her a true story about herself worth telling. Greyling has been itching to get out for a few attacks now and this is where he finally gets the opportunity to go out. He just has a bad feeling about things and goes out to check. As I mention in the comic about their first “meeting”, Greyling’s intuition is correct and he saves LB from a nasty head injury as she passes out on top of a building from a previous wound. This also incidentally marks, for the most part, the end of Greyling’s use of others to fight. He still brings a few out (maybe I’ll get to integrate some from S2?) but this pretty neatly ties up most of the pre-outside timeline.

Sorry this got so long, but thanks again for the ask, @randomstar365! I hope this is a satisfactory answer.

#greyling au #miraculous ladybug #jello gets an ask #long post #akumas

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