#anti-kyosaya
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To go in depth about what bothers me about Kyosaya is that we never see what Sayaka’s feelings on Kyoko are romantically and we never see how she even develops them in the first place. It’s why I hate that scene in Rebellion because it just seems like pure fan service with no proper set up. We KNOW Kyoko cares for Sayaka and most likely has romantic feelings mixed in there (also an ass pull but she’s gay so it’s understandable), but when and WHY did Sayaka even come to reciprocate those feelings for her? What does she like about Kyoko?
We know where Kyoko’s feelings towards Sayaka comes from: Kyoko sees herself in Sayaka and is reminded of when she was a child who believed in hope, but it’s also not a stretch to say that she saw Mami in Sayaka as well, which is why she holds a fondness for her.
So what about Sayaka? Why does she want to be friends with Kyoko? They were about to be friends before she died in Madoka’s new world but we never have any follow up about that.
And don’t tell me it’s shown in the Wraith Arc bc the entire premise of it being made AFTER Rebellion annoys me too. Whatever they have written for them in that arc is just going to be nothing but excuses for me; like why that scene in Rebellion even went the way it did, why she even regretted leaving Kyoko behind. Because from what we know in the TV series, going by RELEASE ORDER, she didn’t give two fucks about Kyoko.
Sure, it’s probably better late than never to develop them when they have time to, but idk maybe show me that in the movie a lil before getting to a weirdly intimate scene where she essentially confesses to Kyoko.
#this ship frustrates me so much you have NO idea#they just DO NOT HAVE THE DEVELOPMENT INVOLVED#it’s just shallow to me. despite Kyoko’s feelings for her. despite all the symbolism we’re shown when she’s fighting Oktavia#despite ‘AND I’M HOME’#I just don’t see why either of them would truly fall for each other#it just feels so lazy. ‘here here’s some tragic yuri for you’ and they don’t even make the yuri fucking compelling#I excuse Kyoko cause like I said she’s gay and if she sees a pretty girl who’s stubborn and hopeful maybe she likes that and it’s her type#BUT LITERALLY WHY DOES SAYAKA EVEN LIKE KYOKO LIKE PLEASE SHOW THAT TO ME ??#anti-kyosaya#all they have going for them is the idea of forgiveness and that you deserve to be cared for no matter how evil you believe you are#but it’s like. that’s not romantic to me?? that can very well be just shown platonically ???#god I’m so worried for them in walpurgis no kaiten cause they’re just gonna give us fan service scenes again
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What's the most difficult type of Madoka fan to deal with IYO? Recently had some...interesting experiences with the types that another described as 'Homura-stans', which I found weird because I rather like Homura and didn't think I was doing anything to incite a reaction like that. They the worst or are there more insidious parts of the fandom I have yet to run into?
If you mean people who take the whole "Homura did nothing wrong" thing way too seriously, I've ran into them a time or two, but they tend to just be irritating at worst.
As for me, well, I don't know how long you've been a part of the fandom, but let me tell you a tale of one of the most notorious members of the Madoka Magica community. Let me tell you the tale of Anti-Crack Kun.
=puffs on pipe and leans back in rocking chair=
Sometime between the release of the original series and now, around the middle of the last decade, there arose a certain individual who, despite having been gone for several years now and otherwise is all but forgotten, certainly left quite the indelible stamp on the community. Officially, his name was Anonscans, but to everyone else he was known as simply Anti-Crack Kun.
You see, he was active in the community in a way few other people were, as a translator of Madoka Magica yuri doujins (as well as for a few other series). Some of them cute and clean, others cute and very much not clean, but as this was the golden age of Madoka Magica doujins, he quickly became a fairly big name in that part of the community.
However, while it could be argued that he was providing a service, he is more known for his obsessive, nay, near pathological belief that if you shipped anything other than KyoSaya or MadoHomu, you were in effect ignoring the girls' feelings and treating them like disposable trash. Every doujin that he translated had what was basically his manifesto tacked on at the end, so you could just be enjoying some cute fluff concerning your favorite ship only to be hit with a wall of deranged rambling.
Furthermore, he was not content to simply express his beliefs in his own space, but also aggressively hunted down those who enjoyed what he deemed were "non-canon" ships, which ignores the fact that for as much as we'd like to think otherwise, Madoka Magica is still mostly subtext and nobody save for Hitomi and Kyousuke are actually officially a couple. He would pick fights in the comments of his doujins, stir up trouble on messages boards, would harass and insult fanartists on deviantart and here on tumblr for producing anything having to do with "crack ships," make multiple sockpuppet accounts every time he got banned or blocked, and also showed a real misogynstic and ableist streak as well. I've heard that he also doxxed a few people. Some prominent fanartists outright left the fandom because they were tired of his bullshit.
Funny thing is, someone did ask him about Walpurgis Nights once way back in the day, and he actually gave it the okay, because despite being very AU at least it stuck to the "canon" ships or some shit like that. But that did not stop us from having a brief war of words a few years ago here on tumblr.
Anyway, he's long been run out of the fandom by now. His accounts have all been deleted, and no one's heard from him for almost a decade. However, his website Anonscans is still up, albeit dormant, so you can still peek in to see some truly bizarre drama. It even features a "debate" area, as he knew full well people would be coming for his ass. And any of the doujins that he translated are still under his name in whatever archives they're stored in. So there's every chance that you could be browsing through some old KyoSaya only to run right into his batshit manifesto at the end.
So yeah. That guy.
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Since you've explained why you don't ship KyoSaya, I think you should explain why you don't like MadoHomu as well, to even the odds.
For better context, here's the old ask where I explain why I don't ship KyouSaya.
My pet peeve with MadoHomu is that 99% of the fandom isn't creeped out by it, specially after The Rebellion Story. There's a huge lack of nuance, and it's worrisome IMO.
Like, a majority of people have this black-and-white view of gay people; they think that by being a marginalized minority, any sort of morally reprehensible behaviour that they display is justified. Many people have this romanticized view of gay people in media, and sees them as pure, innocent and sinless saints that cannot do anything wrong, and if they do wrong, it's because the others had it coming and have only themsleves to blame.
And it's not just gay people; any other minority has been flanderized by the media at some point in their lives.
It's basically the same issue that I have with RosePearl (Steven Universe) and Catradora (She-Ra and the Princesses of Power).
May I remind you that these two are MASTER AND SLAVE, and I think I don't need to explain how fucked up this is.
Dude, there's a whole entire blog that documents Catra's abusive behavior towards Adora, and that alone should say something: @anti-catradora-receipts
These ships are all kinds of manipulative and abusive, but both the fandom and the staff don't see it; everything is shamelessly romanticized and seen as beautiful, like a "Love Conquers All" kinda thing. And in Madoka Magica, this is no exception.
Homura has rewritten the universe just so she could be with Madoka, and she actively manipulates everyone's memories just so her personal utopia can remain intact.
"But, wait!", I hear you all cry, "Mami, Nagisa, Kyouko and Sayaka can all live normal lives and be happy, and Kyuubey is paying for their crimes! Isn't that great? Shouldn't we be happy for them?"
Yes and no. Yes, because we get to see Kyuubey suffer; Incubator abuse is always welcome on this here blog. No, because Homura thinks of the other girls (minus Madoka, of course) as afterthoughts as heavily implied in her confront with Sayaka: "All I took was a tiny piece of it [The Law of Cycles]. Just the records of the person that Madoka was before she ceased to exist. Somehow, all of you wound up being pulled in as well. And it seems you can't return to wherever you were before."
And after that, she messes with Sayaka's memories a bit more, so she can't do anything about it, and says this: "We should pretend to be friendly in daily life. If you're confrontational all the time, even she [Madoka] may dislike you."
And speaking of Madoka, it's weird how she is titular character of the original series, and yet no one considers how she feels about Homura's decision. And if you want my honest opinion, I don't think she actually asked for any of this, as she has tried to alert Homura: "Homura-chan, don't! You'll rip me apart!"
To be honest, I don't think Homura sees Madoka as an equal, which it should be the standard for any relationship, romantic and/or otherwise. She created this whole fantasy where Madoka is the weak and helpless damsel in distress that constantly needs protection and saving.
There are even hints of uneasiness and hesitance in Madoka's voice in the second new world, specially when Homura asks her if she considers order important: "Well, I... um... I-I do treasure it. I guess I do think it's kind of bad to break rules becuase you feel like it."
If Madoka REALLY wanted to become mortal again, she wouldn't be so hesitant about it. I mean, she didn't hesitated when she wished for Witch metamorphosis to be erradicated (even though I strongly disapprove of the original ending).
And before I forget, the scenes of Homura's descent into madness had to be redone a second time, because Chiwa Saito's first takes were bordeline yandere. Coincidence? I think not.
"But how can you say it's all romanticized? The whole scene was indeed portrayed to be unsettling!", that is correct, however, the magazine scans and posters see no trouble with the ship:
Why does Madoka seems so helpless? And why does Homura looks so perverse? And why are these two 14yos so heavily sexualized in these? And why is no one freaked out by this?!
And also, I detect a teeny-tiny bit of queerbait in this ship, because during the NitroPlus Q&A panel in Animanga 2013, when Gen Urobuchi was asked if Homura was in love with Madoka, his answer was: "Probably." Noralities' video essay on Magical Girls and queerness touches upon this discrepancy under the Queerbaiting section.
The Rebellion Story had one job, and one job only: To provide fanservice, to please that other half of the audience that thought the original fates of the heroines were cruel and unfair, only for the plot-twist in the end to trample on it. Hell, MadoMagi wasn't supposed to have a third movie; Magia Quartet only came up with it just so SHAFT could keep on milking the cow.
Here's the thing, if you want to see gay relationships being more represented in media, you got to understand that they can be just as messy and complicated as straight relationships are, and they must be acknowledged with the seriousness and urgency that they deserve. Not every relationship is going to be a healthy one.
You know what I want to see in the fourth movie? I want to see Madoka be ANGRY at Homura, I want to see the Cinnamon Roll LASH OUT and TAKE NO PRISONERS. I want to see Homura being called out and her selfishness and I want to see them FIGHT. If this is the path we're taking, then fucking take it seriously, don't sugarcoat that shit.
But Urobuchi is returning for this movie as its writer, so it's best to not create expectations for it. When Urobutcher is at work, we all lose!
(It makes me wonder, though... are there any fanfics where Madoka and Homura fight? Because I'm really interested in reading some of them, since I don't have any high hopes for the movie...)
And last, but not least: Before anyone says that I hate Homura, I just wanna say that this is a lie. I don't hate her, I hate how the stans constantly claim that she hasn't done anything wrong. She DID. She did everything wrong, and then some!
Being gay and/or traumatized is NOT an excuse to do whatever you like. Consequences exist, and anyone, reguardless of origin, orientation/identity, moral alignment and etc., CAN, WILL and SHOULD face them.
We all have suffered and grieved at some point in our lives, and Little Miss "Existence Known As "Evil"" ain’t special. We don't call it a "Karmic Destiny" for nothing.
You're free to like villainous characters, just don't go coddling them like babies, as they are fully capable and aware of their cruelty, and will keep on testing how far they'll go.
Have some nuance. Please, that's all I ask.
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Welcome to the blog! My name's Kore, and I write a lot of one-off posts about itafushi, sukufushi, satosugu, and a ton of others! Below are some navigational links to assist with whatever you're looking for here! \ ( o w o ) / take your time looking! ( May take a mature turn at times, so 18+ content present, this is your warning. )
Fiction does not affect Reality, DLDR, old internet, anti-anti. This is my content, and my safe space, and let's keep it that way. Do not repost or rewrite my content. Also interested and have shipped: Joshneku, Soriku, Akeshu, MadoHamo, KyoSaya, & have a simple love for my queen Makima & my manwhore, Satoru. We keep it simple here. Currently hyperfixated on JJK.
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^ pt 2 "Dressing up Megumi"
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Yuuji's shoujo romance.
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I honestly have really mixed feelings about Kyosaya. On the one hand, I can totally see why people would find it appealing. Kyoko and Sayaka's relationship in canon is incredibly fascinating and I get why people would want to explore it with the romance angle. Heck! I think that, if you developed it properly, Kyosaya could be one of the best romantic relationships I've seen in a while. The problem I have with the ship is mainly that, well, nobody develops it properly. People seem to think that Sayaka and Kyoko's relationship in canon is a healthy basis for a romantic relationship. Spoiler alert: it's not. The /reason/ that Sayaka and Kyoko's relationship is interesting is because it's unhealthy. Kyoko projects herself onto Sayaka because of their similarities - she thinks that, if she can 'save' Sayaka from making the same mistakes she has, they'll both be happier somehow. Mainwhile, Sayaka has conflicting feelings for Kyoko (which in itself is fascinating because of her otherwise black and white thinking, but I digress): on the one hand, she understands Kyoko's reasons for becoming the girl she is now, but on the other hand, she loaths her apparant selfishness and apathy. On top of that, Sayaka is insanely jealous of Kyoko's power, and this becomes one if the many things that drive her to despair. This dynamic of simultaneous caring and distaste they have going on is incredibly fascinating, but it's NOT a good basis for a romantic relationship. Rebellion might have retconned a lot of this, but these are deeprooted issues that would still need to be talked about before establishing a relationship, and I wish that people would do so more often.
#in other news I'm still trying not to stress for my exams#anti-kyosaya#madoka magica#listen I coukd talk about their relationship for hours#its so fascinating
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hi! im homura/kano mod, but you can just call me chai. i opened an edit blog, because i like making shitty aesthetic stuff. if you want to request something from me, first read this post.
• my english isn't really good, so sorry for any possible grammatical mistakes, or something.
• actually, im taking requests only from pmmm and kagerou project.
• i can open and close requests in every moment, so check out my description!
i dont want you to interact with me in any way (reblog, like, comment, request) if:
• you are hard yaoist/yurist, you ship real people if they don't want to be shipped, terf, map, lgbt-phobic, anti-kin, proshipper or you think that your non-canon ship is the only right one and no one can think different than you
• you run a gorecore/yanderecore, racist or nsfw blog
and pls don't laugh at mami tomoe's death it isn't funny
i don't have very large blacklist, but i have some things that i don't like/i feel uncomfortable with.
• mami tomoe's death jokes. ya i know that i already wrote this but really. stop.
• horny kyoko x tsundere sayaka (like what the fuck,,,)
• romantic tsubomi kido x shuuya kano (broship/friendship is okay!)
• self harm stuff
• madohomu w/ homucifer
• kaerena
my madoka whitelist:
• madoka kaname
• homura akemi
• sayaka miki
• kyoko sakura
• mami tomoe
• nagisa momoe
• iroha tamaki
• yachiyo nanami
• tsuruno yui
• sana futaba
• felicia mitsuki
• rena minami
• momoko togame
• kaede akino
• juri oba
• chiharu hiroe
• tart
• alina gray
• madohomu (w/ moemura and coolmura)
• madosaya
• kyomado
• madomami
• homusaya
• broship homumami
• broship/friendship kyosaya
• kyomami (kyomami my beloved...)
• iroede
kagepro:
• shintaro kisaragi
• momo kisaragi
• ayano tateyama
• tsubomi kido
• shuuya kano
• kousuke seto
• ene/takane
• konoha/haruka
• mary kozakura
• shinmary
• shinyano
• setomary
• setokano
• harutaka
in the moment, I can make:
• icons; square or circle. give me size (my common is 300 x 300).
• pride icons; i prefer square, but i can also do circle. any flag, except map/zoophile/sexualities that aren't valid.
• layouts; three icons and three headers (my common size is twitter header, 1500 x 500).
• moodboards. usually nine pictures. tell me if you want specific core or themes.
• mobile wallpapers. give me size.
• desktop wallpapers. my common size is full hd.
• edit sets; six icons, two mobile wallpapers and one desktop wallpaper.
• (experimentally) stimboards.
THAT LIST MAY CHANGE!
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madoka magica if you’re still into that show?
favorite female character: madoka bc im basic lol
favorite male character: are there any male characters besides like?? madokas brother??? or the boy sayaka makes a wish for?? i guess if i had to pick someone id pick violin boy but im kinda neutral towards him
favorite book/season/etc: theres only one (im ignoring the movie because if i ignore it hard enough it will go away <3)
favorite episode (if its a tv show): mmm um artistically the scene/ep where kyoko fights sayaka’s witch is fucking BEAUTIFUL but im gonna have to say the episode where homuras time travel is revealed because i will never forget the feeling of watching that ep for the first time when everything started to click into place
favorite cast member: idk ://
favorite ship: madohomu and kyosaya
character I’d die defending: kyoko has done nothing wrong ever
character I just can’t sympathize with: uhhhh fucking. this might be an unpopular opinion but that green haired rich bitch. she was fully aware that sayaka had had a crush on violin boy for a while and still asked him out with no remorse like idk about yall but my friend group has a little more integrity than that :) and after sayaka saved you from killing urself on toxic chemicals too ungrateful bitch
character I grew to love: kyoko!! her backstory ep hits different
anti otp: cant think of one tbh
#asks#ugh i miss madoka magica now too#this ask game is just 'i should rewatch that' over and over again#ask game#Anonymous
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Madoka Magica ships
Imspired by @magicalshoujolover and her list
Note: This is MY list and my opinions, so if you can’t handle that, politely go elsewhere (because I’M SO SORRY that I have to be like everyone else). You are free to ask about my choices, but do it respectfully.
Note 2: I added BrOTP.
OTP
MadoSaya
BrOTP
KyoSaya
I love them
MadoHomu (before rebellion)
I kinda like them
KyoMami
KyoMado
MadoMami
Neutral
KyoHomu
MamiSaya
HomuSaya
KyoSaya (As a friendship I love them, as a relationship I feel neutral)
MamiHomu
KyousuSaya
Hate them
MamiNagi
NOTP!
MadoHomu (after rebellion)
#puella magi madoka magica#madoka magica#madosaya#kyosaya#anti madohomu#madohomu#kyomami#kyomado#madomami#kyohomu#mamisaya#homusaya#mamihomu#kyoususaya#kyousuke and sayaka#anti maminagi#miraculouslover21
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denizenhardwick replied to your post “4, 13, 21?”
I'm with you on the KyoSaya thing... except I've actually grown to hate it because Kyoko kinda treats Sayaka like shit while they're supposed to be "bonding" (you don't tell a girl who's just experienced a lot of trauma and is questioning her entire worldview that HER WORLDVIEW IS STUPID AND SHE'S WRONG FOR HAVING HER IDEALS. Like... no. No. Fuck you, Kyoko).
Like even as harsh as that was, I can see someone shipping them based of that, you know not necessary sweetness and sunshine but someone who radically changes your life for better or worse, not my cup of tea in this case but a dynamic I have played with in the past
It’s the later characterization of best friends and that line in rebellion about her missing Kyoko the most like what ?????? the development just doesn’t match and makes me unable to see the appeal bc it’s like two conflicting interpretations
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Questions designed to make you hate me: 1, 2 and 10 please ^_^
I remember i did one of these months ago with almost the same questions but hey, let’s see if there’s any new opinions.
1. Ooh there are so many for this one. KyoSaya, UsaMamo, SunLight/TwiSet and pretty much every yuri/yaoi pairing that has ever existed. I would add Starco except i sort of get why people like it.
2. I only BROTP Starco, SunLight/TwiSet and FlashLight
10. I’ve explained my ongoing problem with the Sailor Moon fandom here so i’ll try to see if i can divulge anything different.
The Disney fandom, while for the most part doesn’t give me too much trouble, still has it’s fair share of anti-shippers and the type who thrive off of creating/participating in discourse. I’m not ashamed to be in the fandom, it’s more that i pity those petty people who waste their time arguing over Elsa’s sexuality and other meaningless garbage.
The Madoka fandom is generally alright (but things have been slow moving lately since there’s been no new info on season 2/movie 4) but apparently it used to be really bad?
As for MLP:FiM, SVTFOE, Gravity Falls, ect, they have their own minor problems but aren’t really worth mentioning.
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Time to say what I’m always thinking.
The KyoSaya handhold scene in Rebellion is such an asspull with no build up because why would Sayaka ever regret leaving Kyoko behind when they never showed us her giving a fuck about Kyoko before that ? It’s cheap just like their whole relationship in Rebellion (which also has no set up and just rides on the fact that we’re just supposed to believe they’re instantly besties, all bc Homura wants Sayaka away from Madoka), and they just wanted to bait fans because it’s a popular ship despite it being shallow.
#I am kysy hater first and person second#anti-kyosaya#anyway. time to look through my Sayaka post and edit it bc I have been too harsh on her as a character
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i just found out grief syndrome is so blatantly kyo//saya and madohomu 😭 (i never knew bc i only got like three of the endings and never the others KJHFKSF)
even so, neither Kyoko or Madoka look that happy?? (probably because they're actually in love with each other-)
Wouldn’t you at least draw the both of them happy? my guess is because Kyoko's in a dress (they should both be in suits, cowards) and Madoka is... embarrassed?
You'd also think that Kyoko would be the one carrying Sayaka but I guess Sayaka's all of a sudden interested in Kyoko. Mkay, sure.
#anti-kyosaya#anti-madohomu#okay but like what about endings where kyoko and madoka survive. or kyoko and mami#or sayaka and madoka. or sayaka and mami. or mami and madoka#or homura and kyoko. JUST SOMETHING. YKNOW THERE'S MORE BONDS BETWEEN THE GIRLS THAN JUST KYSY AND MDHM!!!#pmmm#whatever it's a fan made game from 2012#not the developers inserting their headcanon’s oh my what ever will I do
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okay i'm complaining again i think another thing i dont like about kyosaya is the fact that kyoko's never able to just. be her own character sometimes, like in someway she is just always tied to sayaka except in some stories like the different story and MR another story. i know in the main series she was pivotal to sayaka's arc but i want more out of kyoko separate from sayaka. i dont really like how fans just attach them together all the time when kyoko can have other things going on... is this me needlessely being a hater or am i making sense and have valid points
#i think i'm just being a hater and i cant stand the fact that my fave is important to a character i dont ship them with AJKDFSSJDK#at least i can acknowledge that unlike............. other fans of other things#COUGH ffvii#anti-kyosaya
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Years later I still don’t understand kyosaya and I never will thank you for coming to my tedtalk
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