alicent hightower as a barely 19yo felt immense guilt over the idea that her actions led to her father losing his job as Hand, even though she couldnt have predicted viserys' actions. harwin strong was a thirty something guy in episode 6 who had long ago started something that he knew his own father could easily get killed for, if it was able to be proved that lyonel knew and did nothing about the boys. but no it's all "you have your honor and I have mine." dude fuck your honor lmafo

George is treating Rhaewin like a love story, gushing about how he wants to write a novella about them but honestly that feels like the wrong approach.

Rhaenyra and Harwin is more a cautionary tale of two narcissists who were surrounded by enablers defending every single bad choice they made. Viserys was King and Lyonel was the Hand, they were the most powerful men in Westeros but acted like there was nothing they could do about their dumbass kids.

Send Harwin away the minute Jace is born, get him married off, threaten to disown Rhaenyra if she dares give birth to another Strong bastard, tell her actions have consequences etc. There were so many things that could’ve been done differently but chose not to.

yeah i guess that after jace's birth they thought they could just get away with it lol

their dads should've def done more & talk with their kids about the dangers they're putting themselves and their kids in. it's only after joff's birth that lyonel finally snaps & have THAT convo with harwin & decides to send him away.

The Dance hits different when you consider that if people revered 'the law', Rhaenyra was indeed heiress... right until the moment siring bastards (and passing them off as Laenor's despite of the entire realm observing they were Harwin's) invalidated her claim because it's treason. So homegirl put up an unnecessary fight. 🥴

HARWIN LITERALLY JUST A MAN

I have wanted to make this post for some time now, I just didn't know how.

Everywhere I have been engaging with the daemyra, f&b, and hotd fandoms, there seems to be this synonym agreement that Harwin is a goodie golden boy. Yet that description never fits from what little we can assume and know. It also bothers me how so many points at Rhaenyra in regard to their affair but not at Harwin.

Talking the book, we know his sisters are Rhaenyra's ladies and his father is the hand. He has been in King's Landing since Rhaenyra was a child. It is unrealistic to suggest they haven't been in the same circles at court, HIS FATHER IS THE HAND AND SISTERS HER LADIES. People love to point the finger at Daemon but praise Harwin for being this self-sacrificing man. But what is he sacrificing? He becomes the lover of the girl he watched grow up. He fathers children on her, he becomes her sworn shield. He gets both soft and hard power over her. This man takes so much from her, and what does she get in return?

If the fandom is going to give Daemon malicious intentions with his relationship with Rhaenyra, why give Harwin a pass? Harwin has everything to gain from being Rhaenyra's lover. And it isn't as if he will face the wrath of society for his deeds. He is just the lucky man who gets to fuck the Realms Delight. If Daemon is a man of his time, then so is Harwin. Because he does nothing to help Rhaenyra in regard to the bastard allegations, he never removes himself, marries, or does anything helpful. Why? Because he is a man, and having bastards is totally normal for men in Westeros. He has grown up knowing that is unfortunate, but 'oh well it happened'.

Just because he stayed beside her when she gave birth, means shit nothing. He was decent about that, good for him. It is the same as Laenor being beside her, even though he couldn't care less about her. That doesn't make him a saint for being at her side.

It is funny how she chose the son of the hand as her lover. There were surely others, let's not pretend there wouldn't be. One could argue that Harwin had Rhaenyra's trust and that she had known him for years. He has also been in close proximity to her since she was 8 years old. He could have easily positioned himself well because as she aged she became a beauty, and he being a man wanted her. Harwin had every opportunity to manipulate his way into her bed, and that trust he has as her sworn shield is giving Criston Cole vibes just played better. It is also worth mentioning that Rhaenyra was vulnerable at the time. She was forced to marry, threatened with disinheritance, had to deal with Alicent, and her Daemon was sent away by her father. Harwin was just being a friend, bffr. He saw an opening and took it, nothing more to it.

Harwin's actions reflect that he may have cared for Rhaenyra but in a selfish way. If he wanted to truly help her case and his own, he would FUCKING MARRY SOMEONE. So if Daemon is being treated as this evil power-grabbing person, so should Harwin. Sorry, not sorry.

Also check out @sydalelys01 post about harwin and criston, it's really good.

Let's see if i get hate for it. Can't wait.

Green stans: “Rhaenyra’s healthiest relationship was with Harwin. Daemon groomed her.”

You have no idea how tired I am to hear this.

First and foremost, there is no such thing as a healthy relationship in the ASOIAF world if you keep your 21st century mentality.

In a world where incest and child brides are normal (not only for Targaryens, but for all the other Houses in Westeros as well - yes, in our world, cousin marriages are incestuous, and so are those between uncles and nieces, but hey, by medieval standards, especially in a FANTASY series, it’s not), there is no such thing as “grooming”. Those who try to play the “morality police” are highly amusing sometimes.

But, let’s go with that. Let’s discuss Rhaenyra’s “healthy” relationships in contrast to Daemon’s “grooming”.

In order for “grooming” to actually take place, Daemon needed to be a constant presence in Rhaenyra’s young life. Which he clearly wasn’t. Wanna know who was?

These guys:

Yep, that’s right.

Crispin - has been her sworn shield since she was 14 (and he was drooling and obsessing about her since the first moment he saw her). A constant presence in her life for many years. And he didn’t waste the opportunity to get close to her through this job. He eventually took advantage of Rhaenyra when she was drunk and upset, and slept with her to satisfy his sexual desires.

Harwin - People tend to call his relationship with Rhaenyra the healthiest simply because he is a “good guy” compared to Daemon. That’s the reason. He was a good guy. Loyal and sweet (dumb as wood however). But that doesn’t change the fact that in the show, as well as in the book, Harwin had been a constant presence in Rhaenyra’s life from a very young age (especially in the book). This whole thing led to him starting an extramarital affair with Rhaenyra and giving her children. You call this “healthy”?

Now, let’s move on to Daemon. Daemon has been in and out of King’s Landing for years and years. Rhaenyra rarely saw him because he was mostly off on his great adventures. And whenever he returned, he always brought back incredible gifts for her, gifts she treasured and always got her thinking about him (somehow, certain people got it into their minds that a hot uncle giving gifts to his niece equals ‘grooming’. Maybe he should have ignored her and/or treated her like shit instead. Would have been “better” or “healthier”). Since they are Targaryens, Rhaenyra naturally developed a crush on Daemon from a young age. And why wouldn’t she? Daemon was young, handsome, a dragonrider, wielder of Dark Sister, a warrior, blood of the dragon and he was always gentle with her.

People perceive Daemon giving Rhaenyra gifts on the few times he returned to King’s Landing, as “grooming” simply because they are uncle and niece. But unlike Crispin and Harwin, Daemon wasn’t a constant presence in Rhaenyra’s life. Nobody said that Daemon is moral (he became attracted to Rhaenyra and demanded young virgins who looked like her in brothels), but you cannot say that Rhaenyra’s relationships with Crispin or Harwin are healthier than the one she has with Daemon.

Daemon and Rhaenyra may be uncle and niece (which I repeat, is NOT incest by medieval standards), but they have gaps of many years between them (time in which they had not seen each other). Months, 3 years, 10 years etc. The brothel incident itself happened after years of them not seeing each other. They were still obviously attracted to each other, even more so as Rhaenyra had grown - and they “consummated” their attraction by kissing in that brothel Daemon took her to. And when they finally got together, they were both adults, having had previous relationships, they still wanted each other and went for it. Daemon is supportive, he genuinely loves her in his Daemon way, he is her true shield, her protector, her pillar of strength and he gave her legitimate Targaryen children, which strengthened her claim to the Iron Throne. Yes, you heard me. Legitimate. Just as their marriage is also legitimate. To the world, Laenor is dead. No one has seen or heard from him in over 7 years (the time apart itself represents grounds for separation). Perception is what matters.

That’s all I’m gonna say.

Once again seeing the talks of Alicent being the one responsible for Larys killing his family.

First of all:

First of all, a very silly opinion given the fact that LARYS killed his family and Alicent had no idea he was going to do it.

Secondly, and most importantly, I couldn't care less about irrelevant boring ass Harwin Strong. Good fucking riddance.

Am I really expected to feel bad for a character that had two scenes, where in one of them he got his dumb ass thrown out of Red Keep because he's too much of an idiot not to react to Criston taunting him????

Just hit me:

Harwin Strong played with fire by being the bastard daddy to a dragon fire princess, and then he died in a fire.

LMAO Fortune's Fuck-boi Fool fr!

Why you don't like the ship of harwin and rhaenyra? He is the only man in her lifes who treat her kindly and show actual love. All the other, like viserys criston daemon ecc, treat her like shit

Hello, anon. I agree with you about every single man in her life treating Rhaenyra horribly but Harwin is no different.

He's her sworn shield after Criston is called by Alicent's side, her supposed "champion". But the show gave us so little about him that I literally cannot, for the life of me, grasp the love this man gets. All we get of him is that he's basically a glorified boytoy, what Criston would've been had he put Rhaenyra before his honour.

From the books, we know that several sisters of his are Rhae's ladies-in-waiting, his father is the Hand when Otto leaves for a brief period of time and he's generally at court for long before Rhaenyra marries. This makes Harwin the man who watched her grow up, GROW UP. She was a KID when he started buzzing around her or her court.

The first time they interact in the show, it's when Harwin gives her that (nothing short of disgusting other than impressed imo) when she's back to the camp with a boar during Aegon's name day, the second is a year later when he tackles her in the streets, mistaking her for a boy when she's out with Daemon. He lets her go when he spots him. Timeskip happens, we learn that they're lovers and they have three kids together.

Where's the buildup?????? Where's the reason for me to love them as a couple or him as Rhae's partner???? Must we assume he started getting the hots for her when he saw her drenched in blood in that camp? SHE WAS F*CKING 16!

Also, let's not pretend he did anything to help besides warming her bed and making her a mother of 3 before she hit 25. He knew there were rumors, he was pretty much aware of what people thought and what he, Rhae and their kids were risking. Guess what he did about it? Absolutely f*cking nothing.

He didn't marry, he didn't go back to Harrenhall, he acted defensive when his father brought the question up.

Viserys and Alicent sending him away was what it took for him to finally back away from this girl. After, obviously, screwing everything up astronomically. You can go after Criston's bitterness all you want, you can call him jealous (honestly I don't think he is, but that's for another post). But his reaction in the fields is nothing short of ridiculous imo.

What did Criston say? That he was protecting Luke like a father would rather than a trainer. A provocation, a comment that should've flew right in and out of Harwin's ears, if he was as honourable as the fandom makes him out to be. He could've said that it doesn't take being the child's father to notice how callously he's treating him. It could've turned into a meme-worth scene of two men absolutely hating each other's guts but seething right from their asses about not being able to just leap and tear at each other for all they're worth.

What would be wrong? Being called his son's father, great heavens. He could've just went "oh shit" and could've walked away after making sure baby Luke was okay, but what did he did? He handed Criston's ass to him, which was exactly what he wanted.

This man viewed that comment as disrespect to his honor, a stain in his pride. Because being pointed out as a rumored ( not really rumored to him, he knows he is, which just makes it worse) bastard's father is DISGRACEFUL to him. He knows EXACTLY what Rhaenyra, the heir, risks, and does nothing but worsen her position further. If he cared about those kids, or if he was just deluding himself into playing happy family with her, I can't say.

I don't think he hates them, mind you. I'm not here to dehumanize him. They're his own flesh and blood, he loves them, he wishes to love them and be in his life like a father should. I think it's (rightfully) a pain in the ass watching another man raise your children. He could've done it to protect Luke, but it's not his job to remind Criston that insinuating that Rhaenyra has sired bastards is treason. That outburst was unnecessary, at least to me. It did nothing but worsen everything. Knowing Alicent, and how she made Criston apologize for calling Rhae a c*nt with a simple glare, SHE'D scold that rascal good the moment she hears of it.

Harwin would hold back, at the very least, if he actually lived up to TB's standards. For Rhae, Jace, Luke and Joff's sake. I'm not going to act like Rhae is innocent but fuck anyone who thinks she's the only one at fault. She was barely an adult when they started interacting.

BONUS:

*chef's kiss* Unforgettable. As if being from a lower class is the only bad thing there is about the dude you were beating to a pulp just three seconds ago. Although that's less about Harwin and Rhae and more about Harwin but whatever.

THE GROOMING

Well this is my first post, first I want to clarify that I am not a person who usually has popular opinions in the fandom… soo… many people will not like what I say… but hey, that's the purpose of this profile expel my opinions on different topics.

I also want to clarify that English is not my first language (it is Spanish) and you will probably find spelling horrors, so if you want to comment in Spanish you are free to do so.

By the way, I'm new to Tumblr, so I don't know why I get a lot of shit from the green team, fans of Alicent and the funny but fateful ship of Renada and Alicent, by the way ,HELP!!! I need to get out of there.🤣

but hey, I came across a post that talked about the supposed grooming that Daemon did to rhaenyra (bringing current morality to a work based on medieval times, that it seems fatal to me to do that more in a work with the nature of ASOIF, where Most characters border and play with the limit of morality ) and said that He had been grooming her since She was little and that Alicent herself was uncomfortable with daemon's dealings with rhaenyra. Well, I'll tell you my opinion about this and about who really groomed Rhaenyra.

Starting with the time lines (it should be clarified that I will use the true CANON, the books)

Rhaenyra is born in 97 ac, and Daemon is 16 years old when she is born and they give him darksister becoming a knight, that same year Daemon marries Rhea, then He is sent to live with his wife in runestone, therefore Daemon watches sporadically Rhaenyra and when He visited Kings landing , He did not spend 24/7 with her although He brought gifts to rhaenyra, and also his life on silk street was well known, and later in 103 to 104 is where they put him in The great advice… that we already know doesn't work and he's only been in these positions for 6 months. They give him permission to create the city wacht and he was in that position for 2 YEARS where he spent killing thieves and rapists, drinking and fucking whores. That he "lived" (that he practically did not live there) in the fortress did not mean that Rhaenyra looked at it every day and lived with him all the time. In 105 Aemma died and that same year Daemon was expelled from Kl, when Rhaenyra was 8 YEARS OLD, DAEMON returns to court in 111, that is, He was out of court for 6 YEARS… Daemon was never a constant in rhaenyra's childhood because he passed through silk street or was expelled in the valley.

Now let's talk about the men who really did that to rhaenyra if we use the term Grooming (which is stupid to use since it is a term that refers to the use of ICT and current moral and ethical standards).

But let's start with one loved and acclaimed by my dearest green team, the great white knight, the great Criston Cole who met her at age 7 (in the maiden pool tournament) and he was 22 years old and in the same year where he was named her sworn shield (he is 15 years older than rhaenyra). He saw her grow up and he was glued to her 24/7, who the great Queen Alicent herself said "that he protected Rhaenyra but nobody protected her from him" of course we do not talk about grooming anymore right?

Do all of you want to continue? Well, let's continue, now with the supposed "strongest man of the 7 kingdoms", Harwin strong, who arrived… guess when to court? at 105, and how old was rhaenyra at 105? yess!! You guessed it!, she was 8 years old, and you can't tell me that he wasn't close to her and that he didn't see her grow up, because her sisters were ladies of Rhaenyra. ….

and guess how many years Harwin is older than her? yes, 8 years … and who is the father of her first childrens? …. spoiler …. is not laenor, but no one talks about these great and honorable gentlemens … only Daemon who didn't see her grow up and was not even a quarter as close to Rhaenyra like Cole or Sir Strong….

As I repeat, it seems stupid to me to use the term in a work with a medieval context, where the majority of women married between the ages of 14 and 16 and if you passed that age you were a spinster or something was strange with you….. AND I THINK MORE HYPOCRITE for an alicent fan to say… DO YOU WANNA READ ME TO TALK ABOUT ALICENT? let's talk about alicent… an 18-year-old single "maiden" daughter of a second son who, since she did not inherit anything, would have to look for a husband at an early age who would give her strength and children. but conveniently she was single and willing to marry a man with a daughter… who wanted her own children to be kings who got to marry her 13-YEAR-OLD daughter to her brother who was only 2 years older than her "normal" but who collected bastards as a hobby… and there is much more to say about alicent…

but hey, this post already seems like a legal document… I'll leave it here.

I wait for your comments…

kisses.😘

look, at the end of the day rhaenyra and harwin were two consenting adults. what's more, while rhaenyra was undoubtedly of higher status on both sides, harwin was no commoner like ser criston and his father was hand of the king so it doesn't have the same undertones that rhaenyra's one night with ser criston did.

but it's really eye-brow raising to me that people can in all seriousness belittle alicent for not doing something similar to rhaenyra and also choosing to have an affair. that it marks her as weaker.

an important thing to remember is that when women got accused of doing things like that- aka alys harroway, it wasn't just them who faced punishment. their whole families and basically anyone who could be accused of knowing about the affair could be executed.

that is ultimately what harwin and rhaenyra are risking, the safety of other people. are they the only ones guilty of such things? absolutely not. but that's the difference between alicent and rhaenyra in this situation, not alicent being weaker or some patriarchy puppet.

Harwin/Rhaenyra interest me simply because how can two people be that comically stupid?! Be so arrogant they publicly commit high treason THREE times and expect everyone to turn a blind eye???

lmao yeah

both rhaenyra & harwin are very privileged people. their fathers are the most powerful men in the kingdom so i guess they felt like they were untouchable. & both just aren't skilled at politics & kinda impulsive. but the thought process is very interesting. like by the time of joff's birth the rumors were already spreading so are you guys really going to have another child? lmao

joff's birth is the "last straw" for everyone lol the rumors become so bad that even jace is aware that something's wrong, lyonel tries to resign, criston feels confident enough to call harwin out in public. like alicent said, one child is a mistake three is an insult.

"harwin isn't a stepfather, he's the father who stepped up" as if those kids aren't biologically his 😭😭

There's this weird thing going on Reddit right now where people are claiming that legally, Rhaenyra children are not bastards. And I was wondering if you agree or disagree. I think that people are just making up their own canon lore at this point.

Hi :). Alright the whole “bastardy” thing is obviously a very touchy subject and I understand why people are upset when other people point out how being bastards was something really important for the time period .But the thing is ,no matter how horrible and classist the system is ,that’s how a feudal society works ,and these are the cards the character have to play with .

And that doesn’t change that ,Jace ,Luke and Joffrey are bastards,they are born out of wedlock .

Now ,”legally” for it is very difficult to answer because no ,they are not declared bastards .They still carry the Targaryen name and not some bastard name like “Snow” .

But that doesn’t mean that the problem ends here .

Because it’s plain obvious that they are not Laenor’s and putting bastards in the line of succession is treason.Because a bastard can’t inherit in a feudal society ,certainly not a kingdom. And no one would accept a child born out of wedlock on the throne ,especially not the Westerosi lords who need to maintein the status quo for keeping their power .So it doesn’t matter if they are declared or not here ,people know they are bastards and they don’t want bastards on the throne .They want to follow the law because the law says you can’t inherit if you are a bastard .

The Greens wanted to protect themselves and were only searching for a reason to take the throne and Rhaenyra and Harwin served it on a silver plate .

So ,yes Reddit is right but if they are trying to argue that then being bastards doesn’t matter ,they are wrong .

And before people start to accusing me of being “bastard phobic” ,let me just tell you that this post isn’t an attack on the boys ,I’m merely exposing their situation .And ,if I can add a personal note ,i myself an a child born out of wedlock .

Thanks for the ask anon !

Criston kicked Daemon's AND Harwin's ass(in the books he beats Harwin in a tourney which lead to the latter's nickname being changed from Breakbones to Brokenbones). Chad energy!

Rhaenyra being focused on being Queen so she wouldn't be a womb to use till she dies, like her mother and grandmother were. That would've been a better more interesting plot point than any of her ships with creepy older men obsessed with possessing her.

Die mad about it.

There's this weird thing going on Reddit right now where people are claiming that legally, Rhaenyra children are not bastards. And I was wondering if you agree or disagree. I think that people are just making up their own canon lore at this point.

I completely disagree that Rhaenyra’s children are not bastards, when in fact they are blatantly bastards. They were conceived from an affair, and the three have no legal right to Driftmark or the Iron Throne.