Insomniac thoughts about consistency of characterisation pre- and post-Resurrection, surfacing mid-morning because I couldn’t cope with the post editor in the iOS app at a quarter to three… *ahem*
My impression is that Jod and most of his OG duplicitous sluts were in their thirties, up to fortyish, at the time it was all going down. Old enough for some of them to have multiple tertiary degrees and be leaders in their fields; not quite older adults yet. In HtN Augustine tells us Pyrrha (the “stone-cold fox”) was ten years his senior, so probably in her late forties or fiftyish. In NtN:
I didn't have to worry about the public or the media — we had a pet cop, P—. She'd made detective by that point; was going on to big things in the MoD. Knew G— from way back, and G– and I were both hometown boys, so P– kept the heat down for us.
Later on Jod reiterates that he and G— grew up on the same street.
We also hear that P— “adored being a cop”.
This is of course off-putting for a lot of readers. But I understand that the New Zealand police, while by no means a squad of saints, are not abusive and murderous on the same level as the American kind we may be more familiar with (e.g. they don’t normally carry guns). So I’m fairly sure what we’ve got here is a character who might actually have been a good cop, in a country in which that concept is not implausible beyond belief — who then, crucially, turns her back on the law (and on her own successful career) to protect the kids from her neighbourhood. Because that was what it was about for her all along.
I don’t think the Dad Pyrrha we love to see is separable from Cop Pyrrha. I think in each life she lives her priority is to look after and protect her people, and she does that in specifically masculine-coded, paternal-coded ways. The Pyrrha we get in NtN is — as with the other Lyctors we know, charming Augustine becoming a man of plex, reproductive justice advocate Mercymorn stealing semen, dutiful Gideon obeying even the command to launch multiple violent murder attempts against a tiny traumatised teenager — someone whose best qualities have been worn out and warped by too many centuries of Jod’s unliving, undying empire. But, perhaps because Pyrrha was awake and aware for less time than the rest, that kind of love does palpably linger on in her.
Pyrrha practically stumbled away — she dropped to her knees before the chair and Palamedes — she reached out and took Palamedes's hand, and then Camilla's. Her face and hands showed only dumb despair.
"I've loved you two," she said. "Not well. Not even wholesomely. I don't have it in me. But I've loved you — in a better world I'd be able to say, 'Like you were my own,' but I don't know what that would even mean anymore. You've been my agents ... you've been stand-ins for something I haven't had for longer than either of you can understand."
You can feel it every time she bribes Nona into eating, or carries her when her legs fail, or buys a birthday present and hides it away under the sink for the big day. (And when she looks at her lover's daughter with that mute hunger to have been a parent to her, too.) It’s a feature of the system Jod designed, that Lyctors don’t get much of a chance to love anyone but him. His hands, his gestures… raised by him, bound to him, renamed by him… God must be able to touch all of creation... He’s the epitome of the kind of parent who can’t imagine or allow their child to have an existence apart from their own, who’d rather stunt them than let them grow. He claimed Kiriona as his child, but he also made her his construct. And we know what he did to Alecto. But six months with Pyrrha (and the Sixth, likewise good at modeling love) and Nona just blossoms. The betrayed soul of a murdered planet has learnt anger management techniques — and now she’s learning to dance.
It seems as though at every step of Pyrrha’s story (and, just to confirm, I shall be going on a bloody rampage if we don't get the missing pieces in AtN) she knows she can’t save everyone and get everything right. Sometimes she can't save anyone at all. She has often been a casualty of her devotion. But she keeps on and on still trying, also like the Sixth, to make the best and kindest and truest choices she can in this myriadic shit sandwich. And she never stops loving the people she loves. Wouldn't know how to.
In conclusion… since I should probably conclude something… let's see. Whatever she thinks of herself, Pyrrha’s a good dad. Her accidental agents are lucky to have had those six months with her. It's not ‘playing’ house if the love there is real. And you can’t take ‘loved’ away.
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so… in the additional media of stranger things (specifically the comics i’m mentioning), it was initially brenner’s idea/plan to kill off the other test subjects because they weren’t performing as well as eleven was. it was his best solution because that way, all the resources, time, and money could instead be placed only to her. and i just…. sure henry is a fine character and the massacre makes a lot of sense to me, but i think i am once again gonna change up my canon to actually fit this potential narrative instead.
i genuinely think the comic canon of the lab and brenner is far more intriguing than the show. everything with 9/9.5, ricky, and francine. eleven being the only one who grew up completely in the lab. those other kids were either volunteers, well into their teens, or had some semblance of a home life. eleven was the only one practically moulded from the womb. and they all had such a range of interesting powers. i firmly stand with the idea that jane is the only one who can contact the void.
brenner’s entire point of view on the lab subjects changed the second he found out terry was pregnant. he discovered he could steal this baby and make her his own. there would be no convincing the child because it’s all she would have ever known. because of this, i would not put it past a man like brenner to kill the other subjects for the sake of the “greater good” in this case, eleven.
eleven’s gifts just continue thriving beyond his wildest expectations. brenner would never dare assume that having moulded her from the womb, she would still be able to grow into her own person, her own mind, and one day be able to see him for exactly who he was.
back before season four aired, it was obvious there were other test subjects because jane was 011. so there were at least ten kids before her. but i always liked the idea/assumed that she was the last experiment because she was the most successful. that they didn’t need anyone after her because she was fulfilling everything they set out for her to do. with flying colours.
i just think the whole rainbow room idea, pitting the kids against each other thing… been there, done that. boring and predictable. i think at this point my portrayal of her time in hawkins lab really stems from the complete isolation she endured. where having the rainbow room, although eleven was obviously the most isolated out of the kids, brings that sense of community and sister/brotherhood. albeit extremely warped and toxic. knowing that she wasn’t alone in that experience just. doesn’t sit well with me. i think it’s important to note that she was alone, physically and mentally. which is why kali is also so important to her growth. i thought a lot of the flashbacks of her time in the lab during season four was really boring, repetitive, and just very predictable. although peter becoming vecna was a surprise to me, and was a nice little twist, the idea of her having an ally on the inside was really interesting.
maybe they did get as far as they do in canon, peter ballad was telling the truth about everything, about some of the workers there being prisoners like him, and he really wanted to get her out and to safety. but before they can escape through the pipes, they’re caught. peter is shot on the spot, and eleven is put into the isolation room for a few days as punishment. in this timeline, henry would be vecna, but henry would not be peter ballad.
when eleven turned seven, and was already showing extreme promise, where the other children were average at best, brenner had the eight children killed. kali had already escaped. this was the main cause for peter to gain eleven’s trust and try to get her out. because if brenner could murder his “children” in cold blood, there’s no way eleven was safe even in spite of her power.
when eleven is allowed out of the isolation room, her testing becomes more rigorous in attempt to distance and make her forget about what she attempted to do with peter. brenner begins gaslighting her, saying that there was never a peter, that she must have been dreaming. eleven does ask “papa” about “mama”, given peter told her of the day terry broke in the lab, but brenner is convincing enough to make eleven believe it was all in her head. say she is around eight years old, meaning the same timeline of season fours canon flashbacks.
i still do wanna keep the henry creel canon, and keep him as 001. brenner didn’t have him killed alongside the other test subjects, because who knows, one day he could become an even better asset than 011. brenner definitely wants to be able to control henry, but keeps the chip in him because, for the moment, doesn’t know how. killing him would be too big of a loss.
when eleven is ten years old, henry’s concealed powers break free and he manages to get the chip out himself, and unleashes hell onto hawkins lab. he almost kills brenner by snapping his bones, but eleven manages to stop him. her extreme abilities are unleashed, and she sends henry to the upside down. she does fall into a coma due to the extremity of the situation, but she does not forget what happened. brenner believes she’s the perfect weapon as she stepped in to save him without a second thought, was able to defeat henry, and opened a door to something he never thought possible. eleven is rewarded for her efforts. although she remembers the entire battle / confrontation, her memories regarding the portal are very hazy.
brenner decides not to focus on the portal straight away, instead gets her training harder and harder to see what else she can accomplish. also loved the idea of brenner sending her into the void to “look for him” so that will definitely be kept.
by the time she escapes and season one begins, her knowledge of the upside down is basically what we see in canon. because she passed out the moment after she sent henry away, she was once again gaslighted into believing she merely threw him through the glass and killed him. for two years she believed this, until making contact with the demogorgan, and those memories return completely.
due to her saving brenner’s life, (it was pure instinct. she happened to be there. saw her “papa” hurt and knew she had to make him better.) brenner constantly thanks her. but in a very condescending way. tells her: “you saved me so i can continue saving you.” aka, harness your abilities and see what else i can achieve from you. despite the fact that she saved his life, these words and phrases make her feel indebted to him. that she owes him something further.
i don't realistically see her thriving with her speech improvement until she's well into her twenties at least. her slowed development, sensory and social deprivation causes a serious delay in language. surrounded by other children she would have overheard conversations, some would have spoken to her. her conveniently forgetting her upbringing pre the battle with henry just isn't good enough for me anymore. it makes more sense for her to have been raised alone.
it also helps indicate why she gravitated towards the boys when they found her in the woods. they would have been the first people her age she ever remembered seeing. as far as she knew, during the lab there was no one like her. everyone was much older, they were adults-- although she stayed with benny, i'm not sure if she would have stuck around very long. where she followed the boys home without thought.
also it's important to note that after time, jane does understand that peter ballad was a real person, and was truly the first person (aside from terry) who wanted the best for her. when she remembers him, knows that brenner was lying, she deals with immense guilt regarding his death. he was shot right in front of her eyes, because he was trying to help her. this is another catalyst as to why after season two, jane never refers to brenner as papa. she does not give him that sort of credit.
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New dream: I was watching the main cast of the Hazbin Hotel from afar (them in the hotel, me on top of some building), when a giant Vox hologram appears a street or two away. Everyone is ??? while he's trying to do some power flex/Alastor diss.
Eventually, I yell at him like "hey dude, I know you're trying, but the hologram is super glitchy". And he stops and looks around at ground to try and see who's talking, and it's true that the hologram, while stable enough you can see who it is, also has constant patchy twitches going on, not the nicer looking 'this is clearly a hologram' effect, but a 'this was poorly patched together' kind of look. The word 'asshole' can vaguely be seen along the edge of Vox' tv head. "Also I think you're projecting your thoughts in text."
The hologram quickly disappears, and some city lights turn off with it. Which, being left in a slightly darker spot makes me wonder if the guy would try to come attack me or anything, so I opted to fly to some random building. And as I'm walking into a room, I realized that both doors in the room lead back into the same hallway, so I could chill and keep an eye out, since I could leave whichever way if someone entered the opposite. Didn't take long for me to see Vox closer to one of the doors, so as I was about to slip out the other one... I got distracted by a picture.
It was just a picture of the primary Hazbin cast, kinda like a family photo moment where they're all lined up and smiling for the camera.
But it was in a frame right out of Spongebob. Not in terms of a picture frame from the show, but more like if you took all the doodles of flowers from the background and just. Laid them over each other in a line. Whole thing was like it's made of colourful string, it's 2D, and I'm starting to question how it's functioning as a frame at all. Suddenly I notice many pictures in the room all have equally silly frames.
Vox comes up behind me, commenting on how stupid it looked, and why would he (Alastor) pick something like that, and I've completely forgotten that I was trying to be wary of him and just laugh and agree. He reached down to pick up a thick book and squints.
"Never before told Star Wars story? That's a big claim." He starts flipping through and it's clearly a book catalogue of some kind.
I look over and go, "Weird. Maybe it's some random short story in between some pages?" He flips through to the end, and no such luck. "Oh wait, go back a little bit." Starts flipping back. "Bit more... there, go back to that page."
On the page, in the bottom right corner, there's a book titled 'The Untold Story of Leia'. ...With some kinda faded pink clouds on the cover that has Leia looking wistfully at the corner of the book, and Han Solo in the background, just from the waist up, hands on his waist (instead of on hips), slightly faded.
Both of us know that it's 1000% some trashy romance novel and just start laughing, but that's also the point when I woke up. And then immediately started questioning why my dream would be so Vox focused when he's not even in my top 5. Well, maybe if it's strictly just Hazbin, he might squeak into 5th, the top 4 are solid even if their exact placement is not, but the 5th spot is undetermined.
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So the “it’s gotta effect our mcs in someway or most of the audience won’t care” thing applies to most story beats, but anyways-
(Disclaimer: this is just me brainstorming at 4 am cuz I can’t sleep)
(Just a work in progress idea) Imagine if we got to follow Theresa and Siegfried’s dreams? Like, maybe Theresa’s is just basically Cooking With Valkyries, and Himeko, Otto, and Cecelia are all alive and they just get to hang out with each other again. Otto is just a regular mischievous grandpa with no ill intent, St Freya is just a normal highschool, and all her students have to worry about is their upcoming midterms instead of the end of the world. Theresa only starts to notice somethings up when a second Kiana appears. Somehow, Siegfried and Theresa find each other and realize that they’re the only two people that are actually real in their now merging dream, so they decided it’s time to haul ass out of there and find their real kids/students. Unfortunately, the path out is the memories of each of their loved ones deaths with a heavy focus on the parts that they feel guilty about.
For Cecelia, maybe Siegfried resents himself for not being their with her and later “loosing” their biological daughter, and Theresa feels she could’ve prevented the whole Sirin incident in the first place if she acted against Otto sooner. With Himeko maybe Theresa regrets not looking for her, or that maybe she could’ve survived if they’d gotten to her sooner, or maybe just wishes she could’ve ever found Himeko’s body and given her a proper burial. And Otto… oh boy, Otto. He was a terrible person and they both know he’s a terrible person, but he’s still family to both of them. He raised Theresa and helped bring together Siegfried and Cecilia (even if it was to forward his own goals), plus he’s a member of one of the three major houses, so Siegfried has probably known him his whole life. They probably both have a mixture of fond memories, ingrained respect from childhood, and a certain level of resentment towards Otto, and a writer who’s thought about this more than I have could probably think of a scenario where’d they’d have to confront all that + his death and their new found responsibility to lead the new generation.
Didn’t the Herrscher of Bindings ability have something to do with locking people in dreams (or was that just PE HoC)? Either way, maybe have Theresa gain binding on the way out. Also maybe instead of having Grey Serpent guarding the dreamscape, it’s Hare and they gotta fight her to get out
Imagine if we got to see Kevin’s dream and have him break out of the dream by realizing that the future Dr.MEI planned for him isn’t actually something that’s been good for him. Idk, I just want nice things and character development for Kevin
TLDR: Ara Ara AI-chan was a mistake, Mihoyo should’ve just let Theresa and Siegfried figure this shit out on their own, and Hare should’ve been their enemy to face, not Bronya’s.
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