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mc-critical · 3 years

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On Hatice’s character, I feel like she more or less was cheated of a better character arc which could’ve made her more likeable or easier to understand (almost everyone I’ve encountered who is into the series has extreme distaste for her character.) Though I don’t necessarily feel any particular form of intensity towards her character I do wish she could have been explored a bit more? I can see why she wasn’t likely due to time constraints/needing to stay consistent with plot lines but it would have been nice to see. I feel like everytime Hatice was on screen, mentioned, or involved in the plot line it was in conjunction to or in relation to Ibrahim. Even after Ibrahim was dead, Hatice’s whole storyline was just..Ibrahim. It was clear that she was emotionally unstable and dealt with attachment issues from the start of the series, likely resulting trauma from her father’s bloody reign. We’re told she was “her parent’s favorite/the spoiled one” according to her siblings, we’re hinted at some sort of past fued between her and Sah but no real context. We rarely got to see her interact with her children. It’s like we only were given tiny bits and pieces of Hatice as her own person and everything else about her just existed to string Ibrahim along. It’s quite sad..what do you think?

Eh, I absolutely adore Hatice as a character and I feel she got a very solid, well-written character arc. I'm pleased with what we got with her in the show and I think that her nuance tends to be massively overlooked.

The center of her character is not really Ibrahim, but rather the line between family and dynasty. And while that seems to be attributed with Ibrahim in the strongest way, it also channels in who Hatice is as a person and her interactions with other characters like her mother, Süleiman and Hürrem.

Hatice has always been the sultana of blood that is closest to the dynasty, but also the one that wants to detach the most from it. As you said, she had lingering trauma from her father's reign /which indeed is only hinted, to be honest, but that's the whole backstory of Selim Yavuz, what we got from his cruelty in the show was basically hints two flashbacks. We were told by Süleiman of his defining deed, we were told by Valide and Hatice that they saw his father in him, but the rest remained pretty much vague, which isn't a problem with Hatice's character. However, it may come off as a problem with SS's character, since more backstory would better explain his paranoia outside of actions of the "suspects" taken out of context, would render Mustafa's death a little more understandable and would highlight even more his character arc, for Selim Yavuz was his "Azraeel", according to him, but that is a post for another day./, but on a more personal note, she has witnessed the death her former husband, which puts her panic and fear over death in another light. Her backstory isn't that focused on, because it's not all that important for her character arc: because while Mahidevran has to get over her past and Şah Sultan tries to consistently set herself for the future, Hatice has to face the events of the present. She's an effective deconstruction of the Princess Classic trope she started up as: an innocent, fragile, kind hearted princess, no sign of trauma whatsoever who strives to create a family of her own, as a bonus. After she meets Ibrahim, she feels like she wants to be in that adventure with him, she not only falls in love with him, but he fills her with hopes and dreams for a better life. Look how when she marries him she wanted to get out of Topkapi as soon as possible and always repeated that she wanted for them to be a family, that she wanted to have piece. Even her love for Ibrahim is much more deep seated than some plain obsession that is only used as a plot device or to prop him up. She's grown with beliefs that have been a part of her life and sometimes she lets them out out of sheer ignorance, no matter how much independence she wants in her personal life. Her whole relationship with Ibrahim is a back and forth conflict between dynasty and family that is only a vector for her arc, not the entirety of it.

It's often ignored how pivotal is Hatice's relationship with Valide. The closeness she has with her, especially compared to her other sisters, shaped up all of Hatice's life long beliefs. Namely Valide is the root of Hatice's love and respect for the dynasty, being next to its female representative her entire life (see also Valide's flashbacks in E58) and witnessing the way she dealt with things, the way she ruled the harem, the way she made decisions. Even Hatice herself considered her as her role model and wanted to be like her. (she told her this in E61) It was as if Valide was a preserver of all the virtues Hatice deemed as worth having. She has a tremendous respect for her and her opinions and this is what brought her to hide her love for Ibrahim more than anything. The respect she has for the ottoman laws and the ottoman dynasty and the ways she got used to them made her to do anything but admitting SS and Valide her true feelings.

Valide is an indirect reason of Hatice's supposedly "inpartial" point of view in the harem that let her judge things more fairly. It's not that Hatice was completely unbiased in her relationships with Mahidevran and Hürrem early on, because oh no, she wasn't, Hatice always was on the dynasty's side in this war, but for her dynasty always advocated fairness and preserving piece and order. She wasn't afraid to call out whoever she thought was wrong at any time and even when her bias had completely (and honestly, rightly in many aspects) impacted her in terms of Hürrem, she wasn't afraid to admit that she was right about Firuze after all. Hatice also has a very reactive personality: she doesn't let anyone provoke her and quickly responds when she's provoked. She's not provoked only about Ibrahim, she's also provoked when it comes to both family and dynasty, overall, seeing Hürrem and Mahidevran quarrel in E11, Fatma and the concubines challenging Hürrem in E47, Mahidevran attempting to kill Hürrem's children in E55, Mihrimah defending Hürrem in E84 etc. Whenever something she cares about is opposed or attacked by someone, she would always spring into action, which is a very consistent trend of her character as a whole.

{There are many reasons why I personally find Hatice sympathetic: she's one of the most ethical characters of the show, acting as a peacekeeper wanting to keep everyone out of their struggle, she's always ready to help, she cherishes love (her wanting to marry Sadıka to Matrakcı), there are so many people she cares about outside of just Ibrahim - Mahidevran, Mustafa, Valide, her sisters and their problems impact her as well, despite of how "self-centered" she may seem at first glance. She, just like MCK Gevherhan, is so humane to everyone she interacts with, trying her very best to empathize with them. (to the point Mahidevran told her in E05 that if she keeps up worrying only about them, she will wither in this palace) Her trauma and circumstance also bring in a lot of empathy for me, because significantly little of it is her own doing, compared to other characters. We see a character that deteoriates both internally and externally often as a consequence of her simply fearing she would lose everyone she loves and that her life would be once again, filled with illnesses and death.}

[Truth be told, I don't get the Hatice hate, like AT. ALL. I don't know about you, but people I've encountered on the Internet couldn't give me a valid reason as to why they hate Hatice so much. They either reduce her to a "whiny", "crying", "spoiled" or "evil" bitch, either say they hate her because she breaks down a lot or because stood up against Hürrem for no reason, which is totally untrue, in my opinion. I genuinely haven't seen one (1) good argument as to why she deserves such ire. They mostly look at a more dimensional version of S03 Hatice and forget everything that set up S03 Hatice, or they hate Hatice exclusively because of S03, which.... eh? I would dare say that there are more reasons to hate Mahidevran than there ever were to hate Hatice (even though the hate directed at Mahidevran is, once again, for all the wrong reasons) and if someone gave me an actually good reason to hate Mahidevran, I would understand, but Hatice? Even her more questionable actions were ultimately provoked by something or someone.]

Her first traumatic experiences in the present is also connected to the kids she's lost. Yeah, giving her more time with her living children and seeing her more as a mother is the one thing I would definetly change in her writing. We didn't get enough of that and it would be a breath of fresh air. But then again, losing so many could've demotivated her and the last time she was pregnant we also had this prevailing, but understandable fear. It also just doesn't play such a big part in her deconstrustion-to-become-flanderization-in-character-development arc.

We gain a gradual, broader perspective into her a bit later in the narrative, and perhaps that eventually broken first impression would cause disappointment - Hatice could be prideful and while she wants to detach from the dynasty for her family, she values her own position and the rights that are offered with it. She could be easily offended by remarks made to startle her. She could be demanding sometimes. But that existed along with her good traits. Hatice was the most reasonable and morally unproblematic character of the main cast overall and by S01/2, that truly showed.

If we refer only to S03 Hatice, it would make a tiny bit more sense for people to not find her that sympathetic. Because while she underwent a good flanderization arc, it's still flanderization and some traits of hers seem to be more present than others in that season, especially knowing the trajectory of said arc. It may look like there isn't a sympathetic reason to do what she does, as if she's like this all of the sudden. But here's the rub: season 3 wasn't supposed to give this much context to Hatice's actions, it's the pay-off of a build-up, the peak of her arc that leads to a resolution. Season 3 wasn't supposed to repeat stuff that has already been established, all Hatice is doing there, has been set up for an entire season, if not more. We already know what's driving her, we already have the sympathetic reasons. That's why all the attention is given to her actions that bring her to tragedy, not to introspective scenes.

Back to Ibrahim's relation to Hatice's character: A common affirmation I hear is that Hatice's rift with Hürrem was caused thanks to Ibrahim and Ibrahim alone. There's so much more to it than that! While we had the scene that started the build-up and the one that ended it be about a possible/already a fact infidelity of Ibrahim's as a parallel, these are only a part of it, not it in its entirety. Keep in mind that the one thing that fully set the upcoming enmity in motion during S03 is Hürrem taking Valide's chambers. And at first Hatice wasn't about to blame Hürrem for it all when she went to tell it to his majesty (her saying to Gülfem that it doesn't matter who told her about the affair) with her claiming that Hü ruined her life only after their confrontation for Valide's chambers. And here we return to the center of Hatice's character: thing is, whether we liked it or not, Hürrem always was a threat to the dynasty in Hatice's eyes. Şah asked her the infamous question: "The dynasty or Ibrahim?" when she was asked why is Hürrem a threat in E81, but I think both are in conjunction, yet independent of each other here. Hatice values tradition just like her mother and Hürrem breaking them all would cause some kind of disturbance. She got distraught right after she was freed and married, claiming that it had to be stopped before it happened, look also how she told Afife Hatun that Hürrem had to be gotten rid of because she caused unrest in the harem! Not only Ibrahim's death, but Valide's death impacted her so much, she thought someone had to supposedly protect the dynasty for what is to come before everything goes haywire and that's what she attempted to do the entire time. In S03A personal motives clearly ran together with the apparent protection of the dynasty (I sometimes like to parallel Hatice's dynasty with Kösem's state in my head, despite that Kösem's urge to protect the state comes more with her role as a ruler and regent and measures out of necessity, while Hatice's comes from willingness to preserve balance and harmony in a more personal level.) and she considered Hürrem as a threat to everything Hatice believes in. She seems to also take on her mother's footsteps in that regard, in a way, using common for Valide methods like sending a concubine to SS etc. She considers Hürrem a threat for her own stability and well-being and that isn't limited to just Ibrahim.

Her relationship with SS is the one that is probably the most connected to Ibrahim, judging by their first more "nuanced" scene for me (him deciding to marry Ibro and Hati) and fallout (the confrontation for Ibrahim's death), but that could be also connected to what Hatice has previously experienced and genuine respect for him as a brother before all the rocky stuff happened. And interestingly, her deep resentment and then despise of him is targeted at him bringing Hürrem to their lives, not simply just killing Ibrahim, though that was also an intensely strong motivator of hers.

Hatice's bond with Mustafa is also strong even before she fell in love with Ibrahim. She also considered him "the future of the dynasty", played with him in the gardens, comforted him in tough times when she could. They didn't have as many scenes together, but the relationship added a good amount of flavor to her character.

A reason why I think Hatice's relationship with Mahidevran is so precious and criminally underrated, is that this is the relationship least centered on Ibrahim, second only to Hatice's with Valide. Their scenes early on is mostly them being there for each other and being happy with each other's moments of good time. They're very bound to each other and are very good friends that still have a dynamic relationship. The temporary S02B fallout between them has everything to do with Hatice's disappointment and disbelief of Mahidevran's own failings. She also threatened something Hatice cared about and did something she didn't expect of her. And that isn't barely noticeable, Hürrem even remarked that Mahidevran is becoming alone in E58. (oh my, I hate this scene with passion, but anyway.) After that their dynamic then remained basically intact for S03, expect that they could act more like allies than friends. But that's a given, due to the more intense events in the palace and the tonal shift of the show.

I find her dynamic with Şah fascinating due to their contrasting personalities and strained, yet loving relationship. The feud between them had enough context given to us through Beyhan's words to Şah in E83: that Hatice not only was Valide's favorite, but she apparently had the life Şah wanted to have, which explains Şah's ambition and supposed distance and secrecy well enough. More backstory would mean destroying the interesting duality in the relationship and wouldn't make Şah's motivation half as interesting and uniquely presented as it was, to be honest. Which is why I find her dynamic with Hatice way more interesting than her dynamic with Hürrem (which is good, too, but pretty generic), but that's also a post for another day. But Hatice is actually the more open person in this dynamic and the one more revealing her feelings. Şah wanted her to move on from her losses, but Hatice objects so strongly because it all has gotten to a completely personal level, with Şah trying to redecorate her castle, it would look like she's trying to change her from the outset, her as a person, which is something Hatice would never agree with. But then again, it's clearly shown that deep down Şah cares about what Hatice wants and is trying to do the best for her in her own way. And the emphasis is again put on family: they still get along and reconcile, setting their differences aside.

Many of Hatice's introspective scenes were with Gülfem and while they talked about Ibrahim many times, we could still see the amount of powerful support between them. Hatice shared everything with Gülfem, it was as if they knew everything about each other. They were each other's comfort.

She showed moral support to Beyhan, as well. That is another familial relationship that shows both casual and profound interactions. It's not there as much, but that's more because of Beyhan's limited screentime, not because of something to do with Hatice.

Even her arc with Ibrahim isn't all about him, but is also tied to the core of her character. The line between dynasty and family drives their whole fallout and if it wasn't there, the conflict between them wouldn't ever take place. Hatice ultimately forgiving Ibrahim is more about her getting out of her own dynastic outlook, which is a relevant character development of hers that happens along with her flanderization. And that plot-line is as important as the flanderization, even more so, and it pushes it forward. It was a resolution of the conflict with family and dynasty in Hatice, not exactly forgiving Ibrahim just for Ibrahim. (that is also a factor, no doubt, because she loves him and he is a part of her character, but not all her character.)

Overall, for me Hatice is a multi-faceted, amazing character that is actually very fleshed out in the span of three seasons. I don't find much issue with her writing: everything that happened with her is logical and well-explained if you look closely enough and I don't want more for her arc. It was original and outstanding for what it was, both as a character concept and a dynastic sultana of the franchise.

#magnificent century #muhteşem yüzyıl #muhtesem yuzyil #hatice sultan #ask #stuffandthangs

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valiant-noble-soul · 5 years

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Mun, whats your opinion on FMA 03 vs FMA:B? Do you like one better? Do you like them both? I would like to hear your thoughts!

~I think they’re both wonderful shows! A lot of people like to argue on which is the ‘good’ version, but I feel like they both have their strengths and weaknesses. Allow me to break them down for you:

03 FMA

TRIUMPHS

>Better character development. This is due to the fact that the 03 series is less story-driven, so it has plenty of room for filler. This time is spent making sure every character is studied in-depth, including the villains. Backstories are explored, self-view is brought into question, and when someone has a change of heart, it’s well-earned and never feels out of place. That’s not to say that Brotherhood doesn’t have development as well, but there’s much less time dedicated to it.

>More brotherly moments. I’ll be honest guys, when it comes to shipping, I’m pretty indifferent to all of them. The one relationship that makes me squeal and hug myself is the love between Ed and Al .They’re so different in every sense of the word, but they would die for one another in a heartbeat. Neither drags the other down. It’s very clear how much the two need each other, especially in this version of the story. It’s filled with small moments of brotherly love that just makes me melt. This is something that I sadly found a little lacking in Brotherhood.

>Better soundtrack. Not that there’s anything wrong with the Brotherhood music, but wow the songs in 03 gives me chills! The tunes are so haunting, always reaching inside me and clutching my heart in a tight grip. In fact, it always brings me to last moments of the series where I spent a crushing night wondering what the hell I just watched and how was I going to survive the pain? I like Brotherhood’s music, especially with the openings and closings, but the score in 03 is the one that had the biggest emotional impact on me.

FAILS

>Unfocused plot. While it was good to see a lot of the filler being used to develop characters, I can’t say every second was used wisely. A lot of episodes were dedicated to either stretching out a situation as long as they could, or showing Ed and Al going on a random adventure. Now the latter isn’t so bad if you don’t mind waiting five episodes to get back on to the main event. Now I love watching the brothers at work, so I enjoyed the episodes, but half the time I wasn’t entirely sure what the brothers were striving for. What was the overall plot? Were we still looking for the Philosopher’s Stone? Are we going to do anything about the homunculi soon? Sometimes you just have to be really patient with this show and not everyone is going to be willing to do that.

>In hindsight, the homunculi don’t make a lot of sense. Now don’t get me wrong, I like the idea behind this version of our sinful baddies. They are what’s created when a human transmutation is attempted. They start out as ghastly figures, but after they feast on red stones, they begin to take on human forms. However, when you stop to think about it, there’s a lot of questions to this concept that needs answers. Why are they all named after sins? Are there others out there? Are you telling me human transmutation was attempted only seven times and then never again? In the entire history of alchemy? Why wasn’t Sloth....well, slothful? These are just a few of the questions that made the concept feel like it wasn’t thought out as carefully as it should have been.

>It took a nosedive on how dark it got near the end. Okay, now this one is based on personal preference. There had always been dark elements to FMA of course. It started with the Elrics bringing back their dead mother, only to have their bodies torn apart after all. But near the end....woah. Suddenly it was giving AoT a run for its money! Believe me when I say the death count was just stacking up by the end. And don’t even get me started on what happened to Rose. Like where the hell did that come from??? And to have the brothers separated at the end? Look, I didn’t know Shamballa was a thing at the time! I thought they were separated for good. I think I spent the night staring at my ceiling, wondering how I was ever going to nurse my heart back to health. It just felt like all the fun and adventure was sucked out and replaced with, quite frankly, the darkest material I’ve seen in a long time. Usually I’m cool with that, but not when it comes to my Elric bros, thank you.

Brotherhood

TRIUMPHS

>More fun characters. Funny with all the characters 03 introduced in their filler, the ones I find more enjoyable are the ones in Brotherood. Mei, Yao, Father, Selim/Pride, they were all a lot more fun to watch. Even our main cast seemed more interesting, such as Hoenheim playing a more heroic role in his departure, rather than just having him leave because his body was rotting away. While I don’t feel like many characters were covered more in-depth than in the 03 series, I do feel like the writing gave them enough material to capture our hearts and attention regardless.

>More balanced, thought-out plot. You certainly don’t have to worry about anything dragging on in this version of FMA. The plot is brilliantly thought out, starting as a simple promise between two boys, and ending with a battle against a godlike figure for the sake of the country. Plus, this version has the right balance of drama and humor, and it doesn’t forsake the other at any point either. It never becomes too silly to take seriously or too dark to find joy in. It’s a story filled with hope and strength that will leave you feeling warm all over.

FAILS

>Emotional development can sometimes be skipped/rushed. All the problems with Brotherhood can pretty much be summarized by this. Equivalent exchange, my friends. In order to give us a better-paced anime, the show had to gloss over moments that needed to have a little more time to grow. The prime example that comes to mind is during Al’s existential crises. I’ve seen three different versions of the key-point (live-action, 03, and Brotherhood), and I have to say the Brotherhood version is actually my least favorite take on it. It’s such a huge and tragic issue that needs to be explored, but the show decided to wrap it up in the span of five minutes and then never bring it up again. Not only does this rob us of a moment that should leave us reaching for our tissues, but it also removes some of Al’s development as a character.

Another scenario that comes to mind is when the brothers reach the end of their journey and Al finally retrieves his body. Am I the only one who felt like something was missing at the end there? Like, here was, back in the flesh for the first time for almost half a decade, and all we got from the brothers emotionally was...smiles? This should’ve been the most heartwarming moment of the entire series! They should’ve cried, held each other, high-fived, something! Well, as my friend @alchemic-elric once told me, by this point the story was no longer about the brothers, at least not completely. Everyone’s story was fleshed out to a point where there were many loose ends to tie up, leaving no time to put extra focus on the brothers. This is great in terms of story-telling. Not so great for my Elric bros. BROTP heart though....

I wish there was some way to combine the development of 03 with the plot structure of Brotherhood. Then I think we would have the perfect FMA. Both series have their ups and downs, but if I had to choose a favorite, I would have to go with Brotherhood. It does deliver on everything, even if it’s not always to the extent 03 does. This doesn’t mean I consider 03 a bad series. Far from it! I highly recommend it for anyone who hasn’t seen it yet, especially if you just want some time to watch your favorite characters do their own thing. Just be prepared for a darker, grittier version of the story. The ride will be beautiful, but quite painful.~

#asks #mun answers

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mc-critical · 3 years

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What do you think about the relationship between SS and his father? In all the times it is mentioned, it seems that he still fears him and holds a grudge for trying to kill him, but what happens after Mustafa's execution, it is not clear to me if in his mind he made peace with him

The relationship between Süleiman and Yavuz Selim was clearly very turbulent from the start. When Selim was mentioned and appeared on the horizon, he indeed was always portrayed as this ruthless and even equally paranoid guy who would do anything to keep his power. And this paranoia of his kept on even when SS was the only heir left. We don't know much of his canon characterization outside of what people that knew him have said about him and a few flashbacks, but I do headcanon that he went on campaigns a whole lot and that he cared about the state, his own state much more than any other personal attachments he could've had. That's why he may not have gotten that close to his only son, too (SS spending most of his time in a sanjack could've also contributed to this) and since similarly to SS, his paranoia and self-righteousness hardened him to the point where there was no turning back anymore and that more or less became who you are, you look at yourself as a figure of a ruthless padişah, not so much as a human being, Selim would be capable of the most drastic measures against whoever he felt betray him in some way. It's no wonder Hafsa kept SS as far away from his suspicion as possible, because Selim is characterized by everyone by being ruthless and cruel and that means he can be pretty unpredictable, as well, judging by the situation with the kaftan. He is a guy that his family - his wife (in the show apparently), his daughters and his only son! - is afraid of.

Given the circumstances, it's pretty explainable to me why SS is afraid of him, as well, and is probably the one who is the most afraid of him deep down, but wouldn't admit it so openly, of course, only in self reflection. SS has apparently grown distant to his own father and perhaps they haven't even met so much. The flashback in E55 gave us a glimpse of how their relationship could've been - a pretty familiar sword fight and words about innocence that establish that Selim has also seen the danger in SS from pretty early on. It's as if SS has always been a suspect from day one. However, outside of that flashback, SS defines Selim by two major deeds - the whole ordeal with Selim's own father and the poisoned kaftan. Since again, SS spent most of his time in a sanjack and he didn't have the chance (Hafsa could've talked him out of it) or simply didn't want to let out his anger on his father for this event, deep resentment would overtake SS more and more throughout the years, because it's a vivid, impactful image and a strong, negative emotion one wouldn't forget so easily when your own father is the one who wants your death. This precise event is the one most telling of Selim's cruelty and ruthlessness in the show and that's what SS associates him with - cruelty and ruthlessness. But there the fear comes in, most of all, because of the similar position: one day SS would have to go in his footsteps, one day he would have to take on his role. SS is also a padişah and what if he also becomes like Selim? What if he also sends a poisoned kaftan to his son? (he asked Allah not to let him do that in one episode) What if he becomes as cruel, what if his reign also turns into a bloodshed? This fear of his is so strong and deep-seated that the further SS goes on with his growing Ego and paranoia, the more this fear ends up overtaking him and makes what he has still strived to avoid become part of him he lives by and a mold he would always follow, for he is the padişah and he, just like his father, wouldn't stand betrayal or what he perceives as betrayal, because he has become so used to living with this fear that amplified his Ego and paranoia even more that he writes off his deeds as absolutely necessary when he only screwed up big time.

This fear has turned into SS's ultimate justification, for Yavuz Selim was presented as his Azraeel two episodes before he did one of the wrongest deeds in his life. Here's the place for me to say that SS would have only benefited more as a character and gained much more sympathy from me, if precisely his backstory with his father was more explored beyond what we got. What we got was too scarse to justify his (let's face it) mostly out-of-context event-based paranoia to the point it became like this is used as SS's own justification without him truly realizing it, not a justification the audience got, because the show didn't want to justify neither Ibrahim's (maybe aside from E82 itself), nor Mustafa's execution. We could see the factors, yes, but justify the executions? No, especially when they both were presented as wrong when it came to the state itself through the tragic themes. And that's the thing: SS eventually put his Ego of a padişah and warped beliefs of what has to be done over his own early established principles and the state itself. That's also why SS's motivation rings hollow due to this minimal information and I think that SS not only became like his father, he even exceeded him. The stability of the state still played a part in the only other established event of Yavuz Selim SS eventually leaned on in E97 and shown with an actual flashback in E122 and his intentions didn't seem to have changed, since he was praised for his ruling and conquests. No matter how ruthless he was, we're led to believe he still was a decent ruler. That changes with SS. He begins putting Selim's way of thinking and courses of action in his own ways of thinking and ends up twisting them even further, if only for the deeper exploration and character arc we got with him.

Süleiman gives in to Selim's ways of thinking pretty early actually: he's used to being suspected and he quickly becomes accustomed to his own role to the point his decisions could hurt his family and could be pretty similar to his own father's. The paranoia of betrayal and dethroning appeared much faster than even he could imagine, since once he saw Mustafa grow up more and more, yes, he had very mixed feelings when he saw him again in E46 and he showed pride in him then still, but he also saw the danger more and more and recited the exact same words his father had once said to him himself. It's no wonder that E55's flashback and the aforementioned scene were parallels to each other: it's like Selim had said these words to SS in a fairly early stage of their relationship and here the cycle repeats with Mustafa and the signs of SS becoming like Selim, something he would never principally want to, are already there, not to mention Hafsa's warnings even before that. (because I wouldn't be surprised if she knew Selim better than SS did - she has spent quite some time with him as his wife and she was the one who immediately sensed danger in the kaftan situation, yes, a mother's survival instinct plays here, too, but Hafsa isn't a person who would be suspicious without any reason whatsoever, even at her worst) By then and by E123, SS had already shown the ruthlessness Selim demonstrated and the more we went, the more SS fell into despair for all his actions, the worse he ended up being, ceasing to realize the effects of what he has done. (like his intervention or lack thereof in the culmination of Selim and Bayezid's conflict) For SS it's way beyond a matter of self-righteousness, but a matter of conscience he had stopped listening to, a conscience he previously said that would define his reign. That fear of his father made him go in lengths he wouldn't imagine him going and for all the perceived attempts to avoid it throughout the show (like him not sending a poisoned kaftan to Mustafa and telling him that he wouldn't ever dare such execution), he ended up caving to them more and more and taking his own spin on Selim's mindset. SS took his role as a padişah much more dearly and that allowed him to delve deeper into his paranoia, into what he has to do for the sake of solely continuing to rule. Perhaps that survival instinct present during Selim's reign never left and evolved into something else. (we don't know the full extent of Selim's cruelty, which is honestly merely covered in hints, but we do know the full extent of SS's, which gives us even more of a possibility for SS to have "evolved" past it.)

Did Süleiman make peace with his father? It never became clear in the show, but I doubt that happened, at least not before he died. It's the fear of becoming Selim Yavuz that ruined SS's whole life in one way or another and his conscience always spoke to him left and right, no matter how willing he was to listen or not. I see SS becoming even more resentful of his father's ways when he committed his worst crimes. And even in his last days, he was more adamant to prove to people that he himself was still a capable ruler by going to a campaign, risking his own life and health for the sake of proving a point than thinking about how far has he come when it came to what he did as a padişah and how did that tie into the ways of his father. He certainly became more accepting of his mold over the years, but not in the way that would make peace with him, but rather as something that has to be done for the sake of your role. Until he died, SS probably still heavily disliked his father as a person and the best he could do at that point is not think about him. He would never justify or make peace with Selim Yavuz's deeds, not even in front of himself, despite of him doing the exact same. Süleiman makes a distinction between his thinking and that of his father, despite of even his own self telling him otherwise deep down. He wants to make that distinction, so why would there be a reason for SS to make peace with him back then? There would be no reason in his eyes.

Now, when he died, it's up for interpretation. Maybe he could've made peace with his father or at least convinced himself of that in his afterlife, since in his last monologue he did say that he takes only love and friendship with him and that would mean no negative feeling left, right? But the monologue itself is very up for interpretation, too, because.. what does that mean? How did this sudden turnaround happen? Did SS realize what he had done was wrong? Was he ready to accept that? Was he truly ready to get out of his role he has been used to since forever and live another life that consisted of only love and friendship? Then what about the imagery of this scene that showed him going to another throne instead after all? Yes, maybe the love and friendship were the true throne he went to with the Sultanate coming to an end, but couldn't that be more him only fully coming to terms that he'll come back to where he came from, where every person on the earth came from (that is, the ground)? Because he could start over anyway, but still not forget what happened in his life, paralleled with his first monologue ever in the first episode, where he said that he doesn't forget? There is so much to speculate here.

#magnificent century #muhteşem yüzyıl #muhtesem yuzyil #sultan suleiman #selim yavuz #ask #Isbluesr #i delved deeper into SS's arc overall along with his relationship with his father #but oh well

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