#and i get that butchphobia is very real | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

aoifereal · 2 months

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Don't like venting about this stuff normally but I'm very frustrated by this, so. I saw a transfem butch complaining online about how being misgendered for being butch and the comments were sucks and the comments are full of people effectively saying "that's just how it is for butches, what did you expect?".

That's so rude on so many levels. Do you think this trans butch doesn't know that people assumptions about gender? It's the same condescension that happens whenever a trans woman talks about women's issues, the same deep-rooted cissexism. People don't view trans women's womanhoods to be as real as cis womens womanhoods so they assume we can't possibly understand what it's like to have an experience a (in this case, butch) woman would have. It's the same logic that leads people to say "welcome to being a woman" as if a trans woman is not aware of misogyny and has not faced any real examples of it, despite trans women facing misogyny and transmisogny well before people start to acknowledge us as women.

Additionally, why do you think any trans person would need it explained to them that strangers will make gendered assumptions about you. That's our whole lives! I'm sure most trans butches had a more feminine phase (in the same way many cis butches conform to femininity for some time due to the extreme pressures placed on all women to) and even in those phases we are very aware of gendered assumptions! Because we have to be to stay safe in public!

In this same forum there's a post from a day ago where a (presumably cis, but what matters is that people will assume that because she didn't say) butch complains about the exact same thing and everyone in the comments is being nice to her and saying they understand and they're sorry that it sucks she's being misgendered. It's such naked transmisogny to immediately dismiss and condescend to a trans woman in a way that you do not do when you're talking to cis women.

One cis woman was going on and on about how some trans women find it nice when people are misogynistic towards them because it affirms their gender and why doesnt op just take a similar approach to butchphobia :). Now I do get the latter part of this a bit because I will say "it is because of my masculine lesbian swag" in my head when I get misgendered but it pisses me off when people suggest trans women like experiencing misogyny. Sometimes particularly early transition women joke about it because if you don't laugh you'll cry but facing misogyny isn't fun for anyone. Cis people fucking love this stuff though because it allows them to continue thinking of trans women as acceptable targets for misogyny.

Also full of people saying "you should just assert your womanhood when you get misgendered" which is crazy to me because it's dangerous for cis butches let alone transfem butches! That's insane advice to give someone and just shows you're checked out of reality. Women get killed over this shit dude. Or people not getting how misgendering is used as a patriarchal tool of control. Not understanding that a misgendering has a threat of violence behind it a significant portion of the time when you're a trans woman.

It's just all wild, and no listening to the several trans women trying to explain why the things they were saying were lacking in understanding. Very disappointing to see lesbians say this stuff.

#aoiferealposting #cw transmisogyny #cw transphobia #cw butchphobia

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autolenaphilia · 2 years

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Misandry is not real part 2

Transandrophobia bloggers turning into outright misandry believers seems to be a thing. This is another example. Like they say that "transmisandry/transphobia" doesn't imply the existence of misandry/androphobia, but apparently it does. I literally found this via a link from the same blogger's "transandrophobia faq". This blogger just calls it antimasculism instead.

This is literally just the concept of misandry rebranded, as ey admits farther down:

"It exists as an alternative term to “misandry”, which has been heavily co-opted by anti-feminists, from it’s original use by pro-feminist men to describe the ways in which the patriarchy and gender roles harm men."

So yeah, antimasculism literally trying to make the concept of misandry palatable by re-branding. And it's use for feminist theory is doubtful, because as defined here it's hopelessly vague.

"Men and masculine people" refers to anyone who identifies as a man or with masculinity; see the concept of masculine of center"

Like this is literally the justly mocked "women and femmes" but masc, lol. Antimasculism is apparently a kind of oppression that affects cis men, trans men, non-binary people, gnc women, which is a wide net of people with different positions in the patriarchy and issues. Hell you don't even need to be masculine to be affected, "it also affects non-men and non-masculine people."

It's simultaneously vague and yet essentializing, positioning anyone "masculine" as having the same interests, affected by the same oppression.

The lens of there being some bias against men and masculinity in a patriarchy is weird and I don't think holds any water.

The examples of "antimasculism" this text brings up describe real problems but I don't think they are best explained by some kind of oppression against masculinity and men. It describes things that are already accounted for by basic feminist theory, and the analytical lenses of patriarchy and (trans)misogyny.

For example it mentions butchphobia as a form of antimasculism. But describing it as part of a general "antimasculist" oppression doesn't make much sense. Butch women's masculinity is disdained, but that's not because masculinity in general is seen as bad. That oppression is instead grounded in the patriarchal expectation that women should be feminine, marry men and have children. This is why butch lesbians are especially hated by our society (especially trans butch lesbians), and why trans women are exiled from womanhood because we don't have wombs. This is basic (trans)misogyny and the gender essentialism that upholds it.

The other examples of antimasculism are even weirder, lumping some very disparate things together. "Transandrophobia" is of course also "antimasculism".But it adds even more shit to the list.

For example, it sees men feeling limited by the masculine gender role and forced into "toxic, patriarchal masculinity" is also "antimasculism". The post lists things like "Masculine people being seen as inherently violent, unable to be soft or caring" and "Masculine people being pressured to not discuss their emotions or issues, or show any vulnerability except for specific circumstances/relationships" as antimasculism. It also has "Gender non-conformity from men and masculine people being heavily criticized (often accompanied by accusations of predatory behavior)" as an example of antimasculism (you might have alarm bells ringing about what is included in the antimasculism concept going off right now, and you are right, but we'll get to that later).

I have expressed my doubts about the term toxic masculinity before, but that's not that relevant. But there are so many problems with this framing. Like, this kind of pressure to adhere to the uncomfortable parts of masculinity usually isn't directed at "masculine people" in general, but men in particular.

But the bigger question is: Isn't this the opposite of antimasculism? It's people, but especially men being oppressed for not being masculine, or feeling uncomfortable with aspects of masculinity. They are not oppressed for being masculine, but for being unmasculine or feminine.

It's a sign of how over-stuffed the concept of antimasculism is. It sees gnc women and gnc men being oppressed and tries to explain this in terms of some bias against masculinity. It's not masculinity, but gender nonconformity that is the basis of oppression here.

All while basic feminist theory explains this as men being expected to be masculine and women are expected to be feminine, in order to reproduce the patriarchal system. Women are expected to be feminine and be mothers, and men are expected as part of hegemonic masculinity to use violence to control women (cis or trans) and various other dissenters such as gay or otherwise gnc men.

Another example the text uses shows the basic problem with the idea of antimasculism. "Black and brown masculinity being seen as extra threatening and dangerous, and being seen as lesser than white masculinity." Isn't this explained better by racism rather than some bias against men and masculinity? Because you know, white masculine men don't experience this, which they logically would if it was some oppression against manhood and masculinity.

And this shows the basic problem with any idea of misandry/antimasculism. Yes, men are oppressed. But it is not on the basis of them being male. It is due to things like racism (especially anti-black racism), homophobia, transphobia or ableism. Some men are unfairly and disproportionally seen as physically and sexually threatening to (white) women. But it is black men and mentally ill or otherwise neurodivergent men. (I discuss how autistic men are targeted by mainstream incel discourse in this post)

It's not men in general, which would be the case of antimasculism/misandry was real. It's instead certain men who are oppressed and viewed with suspicion and disdain, due to transphobia, homophobia, ableism and racism. And the oppression of other "masculine people" are better explained by (trans)misogyny (in the case of butch women, cis or trans, or butch transfems in general) or transphobia and nbphobia.

But I'm not done yet, because that's not all the oppression that is thoughtlessly included in "antimasculism". Remember those alarm bells I talked about earlier? They were justified:

"Transfeminine people and others perceived as men also have antimasculism used against them, due to their perceived proximity to masculinity."

Of course we fucking get "transmisogyny is actually misandry" too. i have written extensively about this in a previous post. But I'll explain it again. I have been critical up to this point, but genuinely dispassionate, but this is personal and makes me rage.

When you stop seeing us transfems as oppressed by misogyny and instead affected by your antimasculism/misandry concept of oppression towards men, because we are misgendered as men, you are essentially continuing that misgendering and transmisogyny that you claim to just describe.

It is a rhetoric that lumps in transfems with men and claim we suffer from the same oppression.

It does this by boiling down transmisogyny to how people perceive and interpersonal interactions with transfems, instead of a systemic oppression that makes us an oppressed class that has little in common with cis men (which we would have to be for this misandry/antimasculism framing to make any sense).

It gives transmisogynists too much credit, takes them at their word instead of looking at the effects of their actions. And their transmisogyny only hurts transfems. Men are not harmed by their actions. Men are not being shut out from public spaces by being denied the use of the bathroom or changing rooms, transfems are.

It might be phrased in terms of safeguarding "real women" from "predatory men", but that only means transfems. Like transmisogynists like Posie Parker are fine with men going into women's bathrooms with guns if they are there to kill trans women.

When transmisogynist of the radfem type talk about "men" or "males" in negative terms, they often mean transfems. Like how else can you read your average "gender critical" blog when it's 99% explicit transmisogyny about how trans women are bad, interspersed with the occasional general statement that "men are trash". In the context of the blog it's clear that the "men" the blogger hates are transfems.

A lot of people who are against terfs base their idea of them on stereotypes of man-hating rabid unshaven feminists from 50 years ago. But I have written elsewhere that the real problem with "terfs" is not that they hate men, but that they hate women.

The whole thing about trans women being "perceived as men" also ignores how transmisogyny often takes the form of a violent degendering. We are seen as failures both at being men and women, trash in human form, an "it" that it is fine to do violence against.

Transfems are not treated like cis men and claiming that is itself misgendering. Seeing our oppression as being due to us being "perceived as men" is calling us men with extra steps. We are not hated for any perceived maleness, but for our womanhood and femininity.

Fuck your attempts to convince people misandry is real, whether you call it that or not. And especially fuck your attempts to explain transmisogyny with it.

#my writings #misandry is not real #transmisogyny

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