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snkpolls · 3 years

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SnK Episode 72 Poll Results (for Manga Readers)

The poll closed with 158 responses. Thank you to everyone who participated!

Please note that these are the results for the Manga Readers’ poll. If you wish to see the results for the Anime Only Watchers’ poll, click here.

RATE THE EPISODE 155 responses

94.2% of respondents gave the episode either a 4 or a 5, with the definitive majority being 5s. In addition, there was only a single grade (2) below a 3. Very nice!

Probably the best episode post marley

HYPE

One of the best non-action episodes so far, with perfect adaptation of given scenes. Really looking forward to next episode.

Very emotional and exciting. Pacing was great.

Much better than the last

Must watch episode.

Loved it

WHICH MOMENT AT LEVI AND ZEKE’S LOCATION WAS YOUR FAVORITE? 155 responses

Levi and Zeke had more than a few moments in this episode, so we asked you which one of those was your favorite. The definitive majority (60.6%) stated that they clearly preferred the scene of Levi lamenting the deaths of his comparades in pursuit of saving Eren over the years. A noted minority (21.9%) also seemed to enjoy the scene of Zeke telling Levi that he must not be popular or the scene wherein the truth about Ragako is revealed (8.4%). Levi accusing Zeke of being guiltless or learning about Eren’s escape from prison garnered less praise.

WHICH MOMENT INVOLVING FALCO, GABI, THE BLOUSE FAMILY AND NICOLO WAS YOUR FAVORITE? 155 responses

That being said (previous question), the majority (plurality?) of the episode was taken up by the second part of Gabi’s Bizarre Adventure. As such, we also decided to ask you which of those moments was your favorite. The plurality (44.5%) gave their preference to seeing Mr. Blouse deescalate the situation. In second place (16.8%) we had Nicolo revealing the truth about the wine. Closely behind, 16.1% stated that they most appreciated seeing Gabi and Falco find Nicolo in the restaurant cellar. Finally, 12.9% enjoyed seeing Nicolo and Gabi argue. The rest of the options (Kaya suspecting a romantic relationship, the Blouse Family enjoying Nicolo’s food and the Blouse kids calling Gabi a bumpkin) didn’t garner as much fanfare.

Mr. Blouse's line about the children in the forest is one my favorite lines in the whole story, and this is such a major turning point for Gabi—I'd been looking forward to this episode, and it did not disappoint!

Papa Blouse is wisest man in this universe, prove me if I’m wrong!

WHICH MOMENT INVOLVING THE SURVEY CORPS WAS YOUR FAVORITE? 154 responses

A fair bit of the episode was also taken up by the Survey Corps doing their own investigating. We also asked what your favorite moment from those segments was your favorite. 45.5%, a plurality, stated that it was Eren showing up and telling AM that he wanted to talk. Another relatively popular option with almost 17% was Hange & Co. learning about Floch’s involvement with the wine. Almost 15% chose the scene with Mikasa saving Gabi from Kaya’s attack as the one they preferred the most and 11% said that the scene with Nicolo saving Jean and Connie from drinking the tainted wine was their favorite. Other scenes, like Armin and Mikasa talking with Gabi and the rest of the major SC members learning about the wine were less popular.

ZEKE ACCUSES LEVI OF BEING UNPOPULAR. LEVI DENIES THIS. WHAT DO YOU THINK? 155 responses

Zeke’s accusation is one of the funnier interactions he has with Levi (in the opinion of the person writing these small paragraphs), so it’s no surprise that 40.6% thought that it was rather funny how defensive Levi got over it, even if they weren’t sure how popular the man himself was. 32.9% seemed to believe that Levi was actually rather popular, owing to his title of “Humanity’s Strongest”. 12.3% thought that although his image might be popular, but that it was most likely restricted among members of the Survey Corps. Finally, a minority was, in fact, convinced that Levi wasn’t popular at all, really.

Man slut Levi tapping dem beeyatches playing dem hoes

If Zeke knew how much pussy Levi got from the fangirls he’d hide every woman he knows from Levi

I mean he's definitely popular among those who idolize him, but he's an awkward grumpy gay so I bet a lot of people are put off by his personality when they meet him lol. But he's best boi and I love him

BrO he knows hes hella popular, he’s just humble like that 😌

i think he's popular but probably hasn't taken advantage of it bc he's awkward LMAO

Actually in Season 1, random villagers were calling out to him by name. On Paradis he's got clout with that killstreak

It could be one of those self aware manga moments? Like breaking 4th wall but much more subtle?

He is definitely popular. But anyway what I noticed here is that it's a little different in anime and manga. In anime, he was kind of defensive which is funny and cute. In manga, he looked more like he was lamenting that he used to be popular back when killing titans was the only thing important. Anyway, regardless, I like both versions.

Levi as a story (humanity's strongest!! He took out a million titans on his own) is popular among the survey corps/army. Levi the actual man is awkward as fuck. He's one of those heroes who you don't want to meet cause it turns out he's short and grouchy and ill-mannered in actuality.

he's popular with hanji hehehe

He's gotta be pretty popular just because 1) he was always next to erwin and 2) he survived this long

He's totally popular... in the fandom.

I mean, it's pretty obvious that he's admired for being humanity's strongest, so yeah, he's popular.

PAPA BLOUSE SAYS THAT IT IS UP TO THE ADULTS TO SHOULDER THE SINS OF THE PAST, AND TO “KEEP THE CHILDREN OUT OF THE FOREST.” WHAT DO YOU THINK? 154 responses

Mr. Blouse’s speech seemed to resonate with the majority of the fandom (64.9%), who thought his sentiment ringed true and that it was something one should strive for. 25.3% of respondents noted that although the sentiment wasn’t wrong per say, it was too idealistic for how the “real world” functioned. Finally, a small minority wasn’t having it and seemed to think that children were no different from adults in this cruel world™️ (Thanks, Mikasa and Bertholdt.)

It's expected that children will inherit some of the sins of the past, but it's the responsibility of adults to teach kids to do and be better.

Generational wounds require generational healing

Children are inevitably gonna have to bear the sins of the past until the world as we know it is destroyed and rebuilt into a better world

Normally I would agree excoet those are Gabi's own actions we're talking about...

In a perfect world, children wouldn't have to inherit the sins of the previous generation, but the AoT world is far from perfect. But, sheesh, what these kids are having to deal with is just unfathomable.

Weak, pathetic coward and I lost all respect for him as a man

Blouse Parents MVP's this ep.

I agree that you shouldn't pass on the hate onto new generations, but I don't think that shouldering all the sins is EVERY adult's responsibility either.

WHAT DO YOU THINK, DID MAPPA DO THE DRAMATIC RESTAURANT SCENE JUSTICE? 152 responses

The restaurant scene was rather dramatic, all things considering, so it was no wonder that getting its atmosphere through was of key importance. The overwhelming majority was very happy with what was shown on screen, with 67.1% thinking MAPPA went above and beyond and 27% simply thanking the animation studio for the accurate adaptation. A few people, in contrast, thought that the manga conveyed the tone more effectively than the anime did.

I just wanted to see Sasha eating pizza :(

It was freaking amazing, absolute perfection

Mixed feelings! I really loved the tension, emotion and voice acting! But I'm a bit sad they didn't include the sasha flashback bits that could've added to the emotions.

A COUPLE MEMORIES OF SASHA EATING NICOLO’S FOOD AND LEARNING TO HUNT WITH HER FATHER WEREN’T ANIMATED. DO YOU MISS THESE SCENES? 154 responses

The flashbacks with Sasha eating pizza were cherished by a small part of the fandom, so it is no surprise that at least a certain part of the fandom was disappointed in not seeing these panels animated. That segment, as mentioned, was rather small, as only 10.4% stated that it was a near deal breaker for them. In contrast, 58.4% were willing to accept the cut, even if there was a small part of them that wished that it was animated. Some stated that they never cared about those panels at all and 22.7% simply never noticed the cut.

No, I like it that we can focus on Sasha's parents' faces during the speech

I miss those scenes, but including them wouldn't flow nicely with this medium

I really wanted to see her eating pizza but I knew it wouldn't make it in. It wouldn't make sense with the tone of the main scene.

NOW THAT WE KNOW ABOUT THE WHOLE WINE PLOT, DO YOU THINK THE MAIN CAST WAS EXEMPT FROM CONSUMING THE WINE BECAUSE OF EREN? 148 responses

Many have argued that Eren was pretty reckless with allowing the wine plot to happen. Though 40.5% are certain that the plan truly was only to have higher ups drink the wine (and perhaps Eren assumed there would be no risk to his friends). 18.9% believe that neither Yelena nor Zeke cared about who would drink the wine, but that Eren negotiated terms with them. 18.2% on the other hand believe that Yelena/Zeke actively avoided getting his friends involved, knowing that he wouldn’t approve of it. 9.5% can’t say for certain, and only 8.1% believe that Eren didn’t care if his friends drank the wine at all, and that Nicolo is the one who actively spared them.

It’s paths Yams don’t gotta explain shit

Priority probably went to the military police and garrison- Levi’s team in the forest makes a big deal about getting the wine.

They thought they might still need the scouts after a scream so it was made sure they wouldn't drink any.

I think Eren maybe saw enough about what was gonna happen that he didn't have to vocalize or care too much about who drank the wine. Although, poor Pyxis and the rest. Eren has had contempt for "lazy" military higher ups before, but he also saw people like Hannes change. Idk, maybe he felt their lives were worth sacrificing.

Plot convenience. At least Hange is in my opinion a high up if Nile and Pixis are too.

I think eren had something to do with the wine not being distributed to the survey corps, whether it was him directly or if it was zeke and yelena knowing that it would've pissed eren off, but obviously eren didn't do anything to specifically prevent it because if niccolo hadn't stopped them, main cast would've drank it

I think it didn't matter if only the higher-ups got to drink the wine, but since Niccolo had kind-of relations to Jean and co., he didn't want them to drink it.

DO YOU THINK MAPPA EFFECTIVELY FORESHADOWED AND BUILT UP THE WINE PLOT? 148 responses

The wine plot was built up meticulously over the course of months in the manga, which allowed for a whole bunch of theories to prop up. The anime goes by quicker, naturally. So we asked if you felt that the build up for said plot was done well in the adaption. The overwhelming majority thought so, with 48% stating that they felt MAPPA did an even better job than the source, in contrast to the 35.8% who stated their belief in Isayama’s superiority. On the other hand, a fair few also stated that they didn’t enjoy MAPPA’s portrayal of this subplot and preferred the original. We’ve also gotten a fair few write-ins, mostly stating that it’s hard to compare the two.

I think it's hard to compare because in the manga we had months in between the first foreshadowing and the reveal that there was something up with the wine. We had time to simmer and theorize, the anime didn't have much time to delve deeper into that particular moment especially with everything else going on in the series at the same time. They did a good job!

no real opinion either way

Yes, they did it accurately.

Idk man

It was good, even with the manga.

Hard to say bc in the manga, I felt completely blindsided and surprised. And, of course, I knew what was happening in the anime. Both were well done, I think.

I think it was way on the nose. It was better and subtler in manga.

I have no opinion

It has been so long, I forgot how it went down exactly in the manga. MAPPA's version was good though.

I don't particularly prefer one over the other. I think MAPPA did a really good job building up this plot.

They did good, though it was a little more obvious here. Then again, I knew it was coming already, so eh.

THE SCENE WHERE LEVI FINDS OUT THE MILITARY PLANS TO HAVE SOMEONE EAT EREN IS IN BETWEEN THE RESTAURANT SCENES. DO YOU THINK THIS WAS A GOOD REARRANGEMENT? 150 responses

As seen in the season prior, MAPPA has rearranged certain scenes with the narrative. This time it’s the Levi/Zeke forest scene, juxtaposed with the restaurant scenes. A plurality (42.7%) thought the change worked in its favour. 18.7% didn’t mind it too much, but did prefer Isayama’s version of events and a few thought the change was simply bad outright. 33.3% thought the change didn’t really make a difference one way or the other. There was also a write-in.

The complaint O have its that these scene occurs at night and the restaurant one was in briad daylight, so it felt odd because Im assuming its the same say.

THE VISUALS OF LEVI REMEMBERING THE DEATHS OF HIS COMRADES WHEN RESCUING EREN ARE DIFFERENT IN THE ANIME THAN THE MANGA. WHO DID IT BETTER? 154 responses

There was somewhat of a contrast between the flashbacks experienced by Levi in the manga and anime. We asked which version you preferred. Though most (57.8%) noted that both versions were nice, 31.8% said that they preferred the animated version, in contrast to the 10.4% who liked Isayama’s art better.

We’ve also gotten a very passionate write-in for this one.

I'M SO UPSET THEY DIDN'T ANIMATE THE PANEL OF EREN'S FACE NEXT TO LEVI'S FROM WHEN HE SAVED HIM THE FIRST TIME IN TROST. Like I get it that they wanted to focus on all of the people Levi has lost, but in comparison with the manga it makes it seem like Levi doesn't even care about Eren anymore. If they had a shot where Levi is thinking about Eren specifically before focusing on his comrades, then it would've made more sense why he basically rejected the plan to have Eren be eaten. It would've shown that Levi still cares about Eren and doesn't want him to be killed unless there's nothing else they can do. It just feels like the anime (both WIT and Mappa) is constantly undermining Eren and Levi's relationship (and don't even get me started on how much worse it is in the dubbed version). Although, to be fair, the anime seems to do that to all of Eren's relationships that aren't with Mikasa. Like not even from a shipping perspective; even his relationship with Armin got parts ignored in favor of replacing them with moments with Mikasa. But whatever. Levi still cares about Eren, and I just wish the anime did a better job at showing that.

LEVI IS CUT OFF BEFORE HE GETS A CHANCE TO TELL THE SOLDIERS THEY SHOULD HAVE ZEKE EATEN INSTEAD, AND THAT THEY CAN ATTACK MARLEY AGAIN IF NEED BE. DO YOU THINK WE WILL GET THIS PART OF THE CONVERSATION NEXT EPISODE BEFORE HE TRIES TO MAKE A MOVE ON DEBILITATING ZEKE? 148 responses

Levi’s lines focused on explaining himself were cut a bit short in this episode, so we were wondering if we were going to hear them next episode. As it turns out, 49.3% believe so, stating that they’re important for the story and its context. In contrast, 20.9% believed that these lines were not actually necessary and weren’t going to be shown. 29% can’t say for sure, one way or another.

Maybe it will be shown next chapter? MAPPA does that often.

A lot of missing dialogue from Levi that look important for the final chapter

IN THE FINAL SCENE, DO YOU THINK EREN APPEARS MORE SOMBER THAN MENACING IN COMPARISON TO THE MANGA? 151 responses

The vast majority of the fandom feels that MAPPA really brought out the somber expression Eren wore as he prepares to break the hearts of his friends, feeling that it signifies how regretful Eren is of what he’s about to say. 11.9% felt it was hard to read his expression properly due to the scene being cut off. 7.9% feel the opposite of the majority. While they agree he appears more somber, they aren’t buying it as genuine for a minute. Only a small handful felt that he still looked as menacing as in the manga.

My boi is looking positively dead inside

More depressed, less menacing.

Yes, and I didn't like it. Manga version is better.

Yes, he seems more somber than menacing but Idk why. Even after the latest chapter, I still dk if he is/was acting or really explaining how he felt in a sense. Still not sure if he's like, "fuck it, I'm burning the whole world" or "I don't want to but I have to do this."

I like it in manga way more

He looks regretful in both manga and anime to me?

IT WOULD APPEAR THAT EPISODE 14 WILL ADAPT THE REST OF CHAPTER 112, ALONG WITH THE ENTIRETY OF CHAPTER 113. GIVEN THAT ACTION GENERALLY IS MUCH QUICKER TO ADAPT THAN NON-ACTION, DO YOU THINK EPISODE 14 WILL FEATURE ANY SCENES BEYOND THOSE TWO CHAPTERS? 147 responses

As we’re coming to season’s end, one can’t help but wonder how the rest of the episodes’ content will be spread out, knowing that it ends on 116. We asked if you believed Episode 14 will feature content from post-Chapter 113. The majority (55.1%) didn’t seem sure. But some (19.7%) thought that we were going to see elements from 114. As for the rest, a few thought that it was going to simply end on 113, some believed we might get anime-only content, a few thought we were going to see 115 scenes and some just didn’t care.

Nah. I think it’ll end exactly where 113 ends

Tbh I'm too lazy to see what the next few chapters cover but they've been rearranging a lot of scenes in the past few episodes, so probably.

IN LINE WITH THE PREVIOUS QUESTION, DO YOU THINK WE’LL GET ANY MORE STORY REARRANGEMENT IN THIS SEASON? 148 responses

MAPPA has taken some creative liberties when adapting this season, including the rearrangement of certain scenes between episodes. The question posed was whether MAPPA will do it again. A slight plurality (49.3%) believed that it was going to happen again, in contrast to the 41.2% who weren’t sure. A select either didn’t think it’s going to occur or just didn’t care.

WHICH SCENE FROM THE PREVIEW ARE YOU MOST LOOKING FORWARD TO? 154 responses

The majority (55.2%) seems to be most enthralled with seeing the EMA Table Talk on screen, followed by a notable amount (37.7%) of folks who were most looking forward to seeing another battle between Levi and Zeke. A select few (7.1%) were instead most interested in seeing the scene with Hange, Floch and Shadis.

Mmgh

How dare you make us chose between these three scenes, this was so hard, I'm looking forward all three !

ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS ON THE EPISODE?

M O N K E J U I C E

I hate Floch more than ever, and that cliffhanger at the end was a cruel spot to leave us at for a whole week.

SHHHH

That iconic Eren holding his bloody hand scene was spot-on!

Why no Mikasa hugging Gabi?????

it’s a real 3 ring shitshow- survey corps made into clowns, children screaming, monkey business, unamused adults, and the ringmaster just waltzed on into the middle of it.

I was disappointed at first when I saw the screenshots and spoilers, but man, when I watched the entirety, that was some great acting and pacing. Way better than the previous 2 episodes. Thank you MAPPA! Really hoping they do well again next episode. Could be the as great episode 6/7! And thank you as always, SNK poll team!

Thankfully this first part is almost over. The manga is legendary and that season is barely good. I'm so disappointed. And I really liked Eren's expression better in the manga. I don't understand why they changed it.

I miss the rotoscoping from the first Mappa episodes. Everything looks a bit stiff.

I cried more in this episode than I have at any other this season so far smh.

When Mikasa stops Kaya from stabbing Gabi. In the manga it seems that Mikasa was protecting Gabi and bringing her head close to her chest, but in the manga she looked somewhat uncomfortable. And it wasn't appreciated enough. I also did not like that they excluded Hange moments because it helped the way of seeing her as a leader and the scene of Levi thinking about his dead comrades looked very simple to me. I prefer manga. but the voice actors were amazing! I liked the episode but it is not one of my favorites.

i didnt think i could hate floch any more than i already did but the way mappa animated him made me want to punch my laptop omg

Gabi deserves what she got. Shame I lost all respect for Mikasa for stopping Kaya from killing Gabi.

Mikasa is dead to me. So is Sasha's dad. WHY would they just let Gabi walk away scott free?

As a Gabi hater, this is where fandom hypocrisy gets me in regards to Mr. Braus and Mikasa sparing Gabi. Mr. Braus becomes widely regarded as some virtuous and compassionate saint while Mikasa is bad for stopping Kaya. They BOTH suck for betraying Sasha's memory. Poor Sasha deserved so much better.

sorry my only thoughts are PUNCH PUNCH PUNCH PUNCH.

That scene with Jean + Wine Bottle hit real different after recent events..

ALL HAIL SUPREME GOD EMPEROR OF ELDIA FLOCH FORSTER!

The voice acting in the restaurant scene had me crying. Had to pause it

The shading and animation in the forest look awesome which could really make the Levi vs. Zeke fight outshine the Manga.

Mr. Braid's speech was just as cringe in the anime as it was in the manga. Shame on him for not avenging his daughter.

I think the manga did better in the scene where Kaya was about to kill Gabi in how sudden it was. In the anime, we got to follow Kaya's whole trajectory up until she was stopped by Mikasa, so Mikasa saving Gabi didn't feel as monumental. They did great on Kaya's murderous rage and breakdown though.

As long as I live I will never understand why Mr. Braus could be so pathetic as to forgive his daughter's killer. Especially knowing what happens later in, no true parent would just let their childs killer into their family. It's disgraceful.

Gabi sucks

WHERE DO YOU PRIMARILY DISCUSS THE SERIES? 142 responses

Thanks again to everyone for participating!

If you haven’t yet, please take a moment to send in your vote for up to 5 favorite characters for our 2021 character popularity poll!

#snk poll #snk polls #shingeki no kyojin #attack on titan #snk #aot #snk spoilers #snk s4

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anxietywontmakethewordsgo · 6 years

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Okay, SOMEBODY HAS TO DISCUSS THIS

....so I will be the first to brave it.

Okay, so I’m tagging this as spoilers but just in case; DO NOT READ ANY FURTHER IF YOU HAVE NOT WATCHED EPISODE 21.

So lemme just say, this episode pissed me off for a number of reasons, and i’m probably going to make individual posts for all of said annoyances;

FUCKING GABRIEL AND ROWENA TAKING THE TRAIN TO POUND TOWN

The COMPLETELY erratic characterization changes (especially for Lucifer) in this episode ALONE

The low-key incest crotch face plant (the incest isn’t what bothered me; its that it just wasn’t necessary)

The inconsistencies of how weak Gabriel is portrayed as (not having enough juice to open the rift, but having enough to change his form and make Lucifer walk right back into the bar)

THEM FUCKING LEAVING SAM BEHIND

there are most definitely more that I’m missing, but aren’t in the forefront of my mind right now. The one that REALLY pissed me off is the first one.

Just to be clear before I start my rant; I AM NOT TRYING TO BASH ROWENA/GABRIEL SHIPPERS. If that’s what makes you happy, then you do you, boo. Same goes for the Cas/Gabriel shippers; despite my dislike of that particular scene, I am not alluding to the actual ship - I am alluding to how the characterization reactions are wrong.

ONE LAST TIME NOW; this is going to be a rant, meaning that if your little heart cant handle criticism of episodes and their plot lines, then you should skip out now.

Okay, so this is the specific thing that pissed me off and kept me up last night;

(idk if the gif is froze up for you guys too, but you get my point)

so I originally wasn’t going to post a rant about this; i didn’t want to be “that person” that immediately went on and bashed someone else’s ship just because I didn’t like it and wanted this ~other ship~ to become canon instead (*cough* Sabriel *cough cough*). I honestly thought at first that that is all it was - shipper disappointment.

so I dealt with said disappointment and kept it to myself.

but then I realized the actual reason WHY it bothered me so much.

Now, Gabriel/Rich has only been in 10 episodes COLLECTIVELY. He has always been portrayed as a sexual, deviant being, and you know what? That’s okay. It fit his character, and it became a trademark thing for him.

HOWEVER, it does NOT fit the path they had created for him this season.

I actually made two posts about this, here and here. Between the relationship Lucifer and Anael had with sexual undertones related to sharing grace, and the utterly ridiculous amount of subtext and sexual innuendos in this episode, we can definitely concur that the sharing of or taking of grace this season is seen as very *private*, very personal. It is essentially part of every angels very BEING, and the way they portrayed it this episode makes me think it is the closest thing angels have to DNA. this completely negates what we were shown in season 9 and 10, but whatevs, right? (sighs)

So, who the FUCK thought it would be a good idea to add this scene???? JUST FOR COMEDIC RELIEF?!?!?!?

I will admit that they are alike in some ways, but that’s for another post. I did originally believe they could be good friends, and i still do, but THIS SCENE WAS NOT NECESSARY OR FITTING.

Lets start with Gabriel, shall we? In my two original posts on the topic of sexual undertones this season, I pointed out that based on this subplot, Gabriel’s situation with Asmodeus appeared to be almost rape-like, having something very personal taken from him forcibly (and, as we learned in ep. 20, this happened for YEARS, tortured every day). He was violated to his very core, for YEARS. Even for an archangel, that is not something you just GET OVER (see; my lil bean’s face at the end of ep 20).

So why the FUCK would they ruin his trauma subplot with this?!?! Between the fear of being touched in episode 17, his dissociative state in ep. 18, his outburst in episode 20, and his overall characterization change BECAUSE OF his trauma, who felt it would be a good idea to just toss all that out the window for some comedic relief? You can do better writers, I know you can!

Now, I did consider the fact that MAYBE all the sexual innuendos about him not being ready (Rowena saying “premature”, the angel blade going limp, the rift closing, only a tiny amount of grace, and wanting to extract it himself, yada yada) would lead to him refusing, or stopping in the middle. But, THAT ISN’T WHAT HAPPENED. Sooo uh? I’m not really sure what was going through the writers minds when they did that. I do have to admit though, the amount of subtext was funny as shit; it just didn’t fit with the character’s current mindsets.

speaking of which, let’s move onto Rowena now. She is also seen as fairly sexual, between her general personality and her little orgy that resulted in Crowley (I cannot believe I just typed that out). However, keep in mind that despite being weakened, Gabriel is, as he argued this ep, STILL AN ARCHANGEL. He is still inhuman, still has a most likely terrifying true form. Now, what was Rowena so scared of in regards to finding Lucifer? HIS TRUE FACE, the fact that he is an ARCHANGEL. So tell me, why the HELL would she be sleeping with one and then getting choked by the other in the same episode? Gabriel may not have been the one to kill her, and he definitely has not shown her his true face, but that doesn’t negate the fact that he and Lucifer are on the same league, in terms of both power and true forms.

Based on these insights, these two should at the very least be WARY of each other; Gabriel having low-key sexual trauma, Rowena having been killed by Gabriel’s brother.

Maybe the writers were thinking of their similarities in both personalities and how they died, rather than this season’s subplots? I don’t know, you guys. All I’ve got to say is; there will be more posts like this coming, and while I want to discuss them all, I am almost certain that NONE of them will piss me off as much as this scene did.

If there are any grammatical/punctuation errors in this, blame my night of shitty sleep.

@roleplauuniverse @altyex @flamerush101 and I’m not sure who else to tag bc I’m wading through a minefield of Rowiel/Gabrowena shippers. Thoughts?

#spn spoilers #spn season 13

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amwritingmeta · 7 years

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dean said cas to stop being their nurse. what’s wrong in that? this is how people show their love - for protect and support someone you are loved. it’s like dean with his sam - yeah, they are more codependent but the same reason - take care, show love. and dean has nothing like "this is wrong". so why he told that to cas? he doesn’t need his help bc cas blundered? Or he doesn’t care at all? I can’t believe in that tbh

Hello, my dearest darlingest Anon!

I believe that you’re referring to the scene in 12x19 when Dean tells Cas off for acting like their “babysitter”?

This comment comes off of Cas explaining his reasons for not contacting them when –>

a) he went off piste and decided to bring Kelly to Heaven instead of shooting her with the stolen borrowed Colt

b) his truck broke down and he knew he needed help

And Cas’ foremost reason for not contacting them is that he believes Kelly and the baby - because they’re an extension of Lucifer being free from the cage - are his responsibility.

A sentiment he’s stated more than once throughout S12.

A sentiment rooted in his need to feel useful and to have a purpose.

This need, in turn, rooted in the fact that, at this moment in time, he’s never felt more lost or uncertain of where he truly belongs, feeling like he doesn’t belong anywhere, like he doesn’t even know who he is anymore, loving Dean with all his heart and feeling no hope that the love will ever be returned he’s drifting, without any anchor whatsoever.

Of course, Dean then doesn’t help the situation when he negates Cas’ biggest motivator and dismisses it as though it’s really all in Cas’ own head: protecting them isn’t his job.

Dean is right, of course. It was never his job. He made them his job, he interpreted his orders to protect them in a way that would justify staying close to them and I think that’s underlined in 7x21 when he tries to stop Hester from hurting the brothers by saying “Please, they’re the ones we were put here to protect” and Hester replies simply with a “No, Castiel”.

And that’s the truth.

Cas has extended his order to bring Dean out of hell and secure Michael’s vessel to protecting the brothers against all odds. Because he’s falling in love with Dean, and he can’t make sense of that emotion.

This has made him dress himself as the hammer and assign all his worth to that role because, again and again, it’s underlined the brothers only call on him for angelic assistance. The problem is, again, miscommunication, because throughout S12 Sam finally, and very vocally and earnestly, contradicts Cas every single time he says that Lucifer is his responsibility. Sam is the one to repeatedly tell Cas he’s wrong in S12, they’re in it together, and he should come to them for help.

But Sam isn’t the person who needs to say it.

Dean agrees, but he agrees in vague ways, like being pissed off - which to our literal angel is the same as negating Sam’s words or being nothing but hyper critical of Cas’ opinion, which for our as-stubborn-as-Dean-Winchester Cas more or less means he’ll just dig his heels down even deeper - or Dean agrees by saying stuff that only underline Cas’ belief that Dean can’t possibly see any real worth in him. That he’s a liability. And expendable. Only useful for the powers he brings to the fight.

This is in 12x23, of course, where they’re together, TFW about to assemble, but instead of there being a sense of team spirit, Cas gets a Dean who barges in, takes over and then asks if he still has the immense power that killed a Prince of Hell.

In 12x19 they finally begin to open up the doors to open communication during the Mixtape Exchange, but that episode is titled The Future and I believe that cornerstone was placed there to show what they’re working towards. That scene is a beautiful study of body language because both of these actors are remarkably attuned to using it as a tool of expression. And that’s more or less the basis for the entire Destiel narrative because it’s so much in the subtext of how these two interact with each other.

That’s how you build a will-they-won’t-they, btw. No matter the genders involved. There has to be a dance of long looks and glances when the other isn’t looking. There has to be stuff neither one says out loud. There HAS to be miscommunication because complete honesty takes away the obstacles and without obstacles there’s no character growth and there’s absolutely no fucking intrigue to following the progression of the love story.

But now I digress.

So if 12x19 gives a cornerstone to open communication, then why don’t they keep building on that? They are, and they will. Moments of misunderstanding - like this one in 12x23 where Dean is more or less hinging their survival on whether Cas still has the power up juices flowing through him (look at Cas’ face - it hurts him!) - are more or less essential at this juncture, and these misunderstandings stem from the fact that these two men care so much about what the other thinks of them that they can’t stand the thought of disappointing the other, or failing them in any way, neither understanding that how they feel the other can’t disappoint them or fail them no matter what they do is how BOTH OF THEM FEEL ABOUT EACH OTHER!

(dance my pretties dance!)

There is all the love here, darling Anon, don’t you fret!

The reason Dean tells Cas that he isn’t their babysitter comes from Dean’s conviction that Cas still thinks of himself as their protector foremost, like he stated out loud and unequivocally in 7x21. That statement came as a horrified surprise to Dean back then, because that was Dean’s biggest fear, wasn’t it? That Cas was one of those angels that, when they try to care, it ends up breaking them apart?

That’s how he views Cas’ choices and sacrifices by the end of S7: they’re breaking Cas apart and Cas made them because he cares.

The problem for Dean is that he’s wanted to humanise Cas - to make him CARE - almost from the moment their story began: giving him his nickname is just the beginning. Why did he do that?

Because Dean Winchester is a control freak, plain and simple.

I don’t believe it’s love at first sight with these two. It’s attraction at first sight for Dean (that I do believe), but Dean is out of his depth with Cas and he has an immediate need to bring him down to Earth. To make him feel like an equal. Possibly even an inferior.

Which is why, at least this is my interpretation of it, whenever he gets to put Cas in a tight spot doing human things - such as taking Cas to a den of iniquity - Dean is practically bouncing in his seat from having the upper hand completely and irrevocably.

S12, however, does a lot to tell us that much has changed since S7, including how the brothers view Cas and his choices and his sacrifices.

In 12x10, after the whole Ishim incident, Sam tells Cas that Cas may have changed, but it’s for the better. And Dean voices support as well, telling Cas he’s not weak, like Ishim proclaimed him to be.

So for Cas, nine episodes later, to come off as though he still considers himself the brothers angelic protector rubs Dean the wrong way. He doesn’t want Cas to feel like he has to protect them because he’s not their defender, he’s not the hammer: he’s their friend and brother in arms and worth a helluva lot more than whatever responsibility he feels like placing on his own two shoulders.

(Also Dean is completely in love with him and, I’d argue, is subtly terrified that Cas still, after all these years, is so much an angel that whatever that “I love you” in 12x12 was, it sure as hell didn’t mean Cas is in love with him, because Dean’s still nothing more than a mere ward for Cas, someone he feels responsible for, someone he’s formed a bond with, sure, but a bond that never could be romantic based on how they’re from two so completely different worlds - hence the mixtape from Dean, as he tries to over-subtly test the waters)

So, you see? Dean telling Cas off for acting like he protects them by excluding them comes from a place of love.

“You, me, and Sam - we’re just better together.”

Dean tries to convince Cas with this statement, but the Mixtape Exchange is a Destiel scene, and Cas is done now, after having said “I love you” out loud, no matter how vaguely, to pretend like he doesn’t want more. That’s why he gestures between him and Dean when he says “We?” and Dean ruins it when he says “Yes, we. You, me… and Sam.” Unable to give Cas more than his little finger and leaving Cas thinking that, after all is said and done, Dean Winchester does not love him back. And again, neither is stating the whole truth, nothing but the truth, so help them Chuck - dancing around each other for this fear of rejection, this fear that stems in the feeling that they’re really not worthy of the other’s love.

There is a complex web of emotion that these men are stuck in, and I, for one, cannot wait to watch it slowly detangle.

And Dean cares. Oh, he cares.

Looooooook at his faaaaaaaace! :)

#answered asks #destiel #spn 7x21 #spn 12x19 #spn 12x23 #dean winchester #cas #all the love #ALL OF IT #forever #and ever #the greatest love story ever told #spn meta

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