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bookbitch22 · 4 months

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So , just finished Iron flame and all I have to say is … what the actual fuck. I’ve made up a few theory’s for the next book , What’s gonna happen to Xaden , everything that’s going on with Andarna and Violets second signet.

(Might be a long one guys)

1.Venin, thoughts and ofc Xaden

Obviously this came as such a shock I was actually dying , but then I read the bit at the top of the page. It’s a correspondence between Nolan and General sorrengail that says that she’s requested research to be done on finding a cure for venin. Not how to kill them like the general in her should be asking , no. She asks for a cure. This makes me think that it’s personal. I believe that her husband got turned venin somehow and she was desperate for a cure. They didn’t find any. This would explain why he taught Violet all about them with the Fables and how nobody else had that book. I think the book was found in a research attempt to cure him but it was no good so he gave it to Violet. To add onto this I thought about Violets dad being Sage , it could work and would be a good twist but I don’t know if it’ll go that way in the next book.

What I think is going to happen to Xaden is that he will eventually be cured , I’m thinking him and Violet argue for a few pages and then he breaks up with her to protect her from him maybe , then about halfway through she’s that desperate that she finds it somehow. (I’m going to come back to how) . I also think that his and his dragons bond will weaken which will cause a lot of stress and turmoil. In the next book I also think we’ll see and appearance from Xadens Mother , she may just be Venin as well. I think this because Violet and Xaden both had the dreams , wether this was just Violet somehow in Xadens or not. Maybe both of their only parents are Venin and they want them to join them, that’s why Xaden said that they were here for him but Violet also had an encounter with one who wanted to take her to see someone important.

Oh also I think maybe Violet has some sort of immunity to Venin , I’m not saying that she does but it’s a theory. Can you be half-Venin. This would only work if her father was Venin like I said but it would also explain the silver hair.

2.Andarna and Violets signet

So , Andarna can quite obviously blend into her surroundings. She did it with the boulder and with Tairn. I think that she can do this by choice and is naturally black which is why Tairn didn’t notice. She is the seventh type of dragon , the only one of her kind. So that would mean that she would give Violet a very special and rare signet , no?.

Got a couple of theory’s on this one:

She can speak/raise the dead — this is a good one. Everyone remembers seeing Liam in those few interrogation chapters , Violet thought she was hallucinating but it would have to be a pretty strong hallucination wouldn’t it?. If she could speak to the dead it would make sense why he was there and it was at a very low point for her. A point of need. This could also be worked into a few theory’s I’ve got for the next book . Like we know she gonna try and find a cure for Xaden , it’s probably not gonna be in any of the Archives . What if the only answers are with someone long gone. Boom, she can speak to the dead.

Another one is that she can amplify signets — lots of examples for this one. Do u remember when Mira said that she couldn’t shield this far from the wards but when Violet needed her to, she could. Also when Rhi pulled Violets dagger through the wall when Varrish was searching her and she’d never been able to do that before but when it was going to get Violet killed , she could. There was another example that I remember thinking about including Ridoc and an Ice wall that he made against Dragon fire but I can’t remember exactly what happens all I know is that as a second year he wouldn’t have ever been able to do that. It would make sense for this to be her second signet because I swear I read somewhere that the author said that her signet is in the book.

Now this one is my favourite but the least likely—she has more than one second signet. I’ve heard someone say this so I thought I would add it in, I didn’t come up with this so I have no idea how it would work but I thought it was pretty cool. With Andarna being able to be multicoloured , basically anything she chooses to be it was said that Violet could do this too. Although I do think if this was right the two powers that I said should surely be in there. I also read somewhere that in an extra chapter to fourth wing Xaden talks of Violets eyes changing colours, which really kind of backs this up. I don’t know if that’s true cause I haven’t read the extra chapter but lmk.

Right I think that’s it.

In the next book we’re probably going to get sone answers, some fights between Xaden and Violet , more death and definitely more pain.

If yous have anymore suggestions I’d love to hear them I’m a stickler for a good fan theory.

Thanks I guess.

#fourth wing #iron flame #xaden riorson #violet and xaden #violet and tairn #violet sorrengail #the empyrean #rebecca yarros #rhiannon matthias #ridoc #sawyer #books #fantasy books #tairn and andarna #andarna #tairn #xaden and sgaeyl #sgaeyl

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alexandia03 · 9 months

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Fourth Wing by Rebecca Yarros - Theories, Spoilers and Headcannons

This post will serve as my way of making order in my own mind, in a way. I finished Fourth Wing three days ago and I feel like my mind is exploding. I have read lots of theories and I have my own to add to the list, so... maybe if I put them in one place and start a discussion with you all, we might find some answers - considering November does not seem to come any soon.

Before I forget -

This post will be like an analogy of theories, spoilers, headcannons. If you did not finish the book yet, I suggest scrolling over it. See you when you join our little club of desperate broken hearts post-reading.

And now... let`s begin.

1. Returning to Basgiath

Who will return to Basgiath is the most important question I have. You can read the synopsis for Iron Flame here.

From the synopsis for the second book, we know that Violet will return to the war college and I can think of a few reasons for her to return: she wants to keep her promise to Liam (ouch, my aching heart) to keep an eye on his younger sister (Sloane?), but at the same time I have the feeling that Violet will act as a spy for the rebellion throughout Iron Flame.

And it is not a bad idea. I mean, Violet did not raise any suspicions in the first book. Sure, her connection with Xaden was frowned upon, but most of the people in command (her mother, the king, Dain`s father and some teachers) saw her as a victim in the situation.

“Their dragons are mated,” Mom offers, her smile chilling. “So she’s grown quite close to him out of necessity.” “That’s excellent.” King Tauri beams. “It’s good to have a Sorrengail on lookout for us. You’ll let us know if he decides to, oh, I don’t know.” He laughs. “Start another war?” (Chapter 31)

Bonus - Violet is a Sorrengail. There are few others with better access to information and our little Violence has a talent to stumble over secrets.

The problem is... who will return with her?

I have seen people saying Xaden might remain behind in Aretia, considering the attack was a plan to kill him and the others. Perhaps a plan orchestrated by Violet`s mom - and because Violet was added to Xaden`s squad afterwards and considering Dain`s objections, it seems that her presence was not part of the initial plan. But can Xaden remain behind? I will highlight the main reasons I don`t think so:

The most obvious reason - Tairn and Sgaeyl. They can not be separated for a long period of time and Xaden cant just come by (even in secret) every few days without being noticed. From the synopsis, we know that Violet will be directly watched by that new vice commandant - he will not turn a blind eye to a certain blue dragon (from a rare breed) coming and going as she pleases.

I read a fanfic where Violet choses to leave Tairn behind and return with Andarna, which might be a possibility in theory - let me explain it briefly: this theory suggests that Violet will pretend Tairn died in the attack along with his mate and the other riders and dragons and her bond with Andarna saved her from a fate similar to Liam`s. It is a plausible lie, but... have we met Tairn? He is the ultimate protective dad figure, he would rather die than let Violet on her own where he can not be. He had a saddle and a baby carrier made for Violet and Andarna, so I doubt he will be okay with it. And before someone comes to suggest he can hide somewhere nearby - he is freaking huge, guys.

Another reason I think Violet will not come alone is the threat Dain poses. Sure, she will not let him get near her again, but it might be beyond her control. What if he is ordered to interrogate her by someone higher in the food chain? That is why I think Imogen must be returning with her, but I will get into a deeper discussion about Imogen later (I absolutely adore her). Her signet might be the only way to avoid Dain`s prying hands.

Besides, Xaden will die of longing and worry if Violet leaves without him.

What I think will happen?

They will all return. Or at least Xaden and Imogen will return with her. Xaden will be appointed to a position somewhere far away or somewhere he can be closely watched by someone the command trusts - maybe with Mira?

It might be a good occasion to gain Mira`s trust and get her to join the rebellion (let`s be honest, she will join it at some point).

OR!

Only Imogen will return with Violet. Considering her signet lets her wipe recent memories, she can facilitate meetings with Xaden and Sgaeyl.

However, I am fairly certain that Xaden will return. There would be no reason for the new vice commander to pressure Violet to spill out our shadow boy`s secrets if they would think him dead.

2. Professor Carr

The second matter on the list... I don`t know if anyone else noticed, but there is a paragraph in the book, during Violet`s training sessions with him, when he says something like this:

“And the fact that you bonded Tairn makes you and Riorson the most coveted pair of riders this kingdom has seen in far too long. If I could offer a piece of advice?” His eyes narrow. “Please do.” At least he’s brutally honest, so I know where I stand with him. “Keep your loyalties clear. You and Riorson both have exceptional, lethal power that any rider would be envious of. But together?” His bushy brows furrow. “You would be a formidable enemy who command could simply not afford to let exist. Do you understand what I’m saying?” His voice softens.

Why am I interested in this passage? Because it sounds like a warning and not the make-sure-you-are-loyal-to-Navarre sort of warning. I fail to see any kind of loyalty or admiration for the command on Carr`s part - the opposite, really. I would go so far as to say he might be in on the rebellion.

Why does he train Violet privately? Why not on school grounds? I have the feeling he knows that her ability might be the only weapon against wyverns and venins.

Am I crazy?

3. Imogen

By far the most interesting theory I have come across. Here is a link to a Reddit theory about it, which I absolutely agree with. If the person who wrote it comes across this post - I fucking love you, mate.

To sum it all up...

Imogen has the power to wipe memories and there are some moments that seem suspicious.

How does Violet know about Imogen`s signet? I doubt the pink haired raider would just tell her during training. And how come Violent doesn`t go into detail about it? Perhaps because Imogen wiped out this memory.

The author of this theory also goes into detail about how it is possible for Imogen to wipe out memories, but not knowledge, about how it is probably a secret few are in on. They also give a plausible explanation as to why Imogen seems to be absent during the Montserrat trip and as to why Xaden has a lighter backpack when they leave. Absolutely brilliant.

But I can`t help but notice... did Xaden come to Montserrat only for that weapon transport, thus lying about Sgaeyl not resisting to be far from Tairn for more than 3 days? Because this changes... a hell of a lot of things.

We can all agree that Imogen will have a central role in the next books - you can probably tell by now that I am excited.

Seriously, take a look at that post.

4. Brennan Sorregail

The piece of resistance!

He is alive and part of the rebellion. Okay, we all get that. But... how? And how much of what has been happening is he in on?

Did he correspond with Xaden? Did he know about Violet and made Xaden protect her? Shadow boy here was clearly in on the secret of Brennan being alive. I want answers, Yarros!

Is Brennan in a leading position in the rebellion?

Where will he stand on Violet returning to Basgiath?

I feel like he will be the wild card of the series. It will be like a bomb when he starts spilling all the information he has, I can tell. And I love it already.

I feel like Violet`s dad knew about it all - about the real reason behind the rebellion, about the wyverns and venins and about his son faking his death. I want to know more about the Sorrengail men, please and thank you.

Anyhow, this is all for today. I will probably continue to collect theories and post them separately. Please feel free to comment your own thoughts - I am open to discussions as long as we keep it civil, guys!

And as a side note - does anyone know a group chat or something for Fourth Wing? I desperately need people to talk to about this amazing book. Or role-playing groups? Message me if you are on the same boat.

Kisses!

#fourth wing #theory #xaden riorson #violet sorrengail #tairneanach #andarna #sgaeyl #xaden and violet #imogen #critical role spoilers #spoilers #speculations #xaddy #brennan sorrengail #rebecca yarros #iron flame

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daisychains111 · 1 month

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live "tweet" books with me (via the Goodreads progress bar) pt.3 Iron Flame by Rebecca Yarros

Live tweeting as I read...back by popular demand (literally 1 person on Tumblr (@dumpsters-little-matchbook) asked me to do it again and I was already planning to)

stay strong Vi....just bc he's hot doesn't mean he's redeemed himself for his (understandably) traitorous ways

"she's worth a dozen of me" Xanden you shut up right now I'm mad at you

I'm glad Brennen's alive but I do not trust him at all...pretending to be dead for 6 years is fishy as fuck

hashtag: Andarna protection club...if anything ever happens to that dragon I'll burn the world

violet "I know more than you" sorrengail back in action

lol Brennen making fun of her love life

petition for violet and sgaeyl mother-daughter bonding

awww andarna, all growed up

moody teenage angst Andarna is the comedic relief we all didn't know we needed...nothing is as iconic as her growling at Violet for calling her my dearest

idk if Tairn signed up to be the sole father figure to two teenage girls but Violet and Andarna are about to give him a run for his money

he deserves not to trust Dain bc Dain is the scum of the earth

RIDOC AND RHIONNAN ARE SAFE AND ALIVE EVERYTHING IS ALRIGHT IN THE WORLD

call his lying ass out Violet as you should

slay violets mom with the redeeming qualities...glad she actually cared if Violet was alive and isn't completely a heartless bitch

fuck dain but also FUCK HIS DAD

the fact that it's him who officially outs them makes me smile hehe

I agree Nadine...that was hot

Xaden being an absolute tease flirt bc she's mad at him is iconic

YAY SQUAD LEADER RHI!!!

the joke was funny, your friends ate just lame (jk I love them but still)

THE PRINCE???

awwww Liam's sister you better make it across istfg

noooo I wanted to be friends with Sloane

violet in her older sister era

gotta love the "is everyone I care about alive? yes? slay" moment

the fact that even tairn is warry of the orange dragon freaks me out

tairn reporting for fatherly duties will never not be my favorite...violet may be annoying but she's his annoying

I'm all for the Violet and Imogen friendship but they better not be mean to Rhiannan

also if Rhiannan gets annoying and jealous about them I'll be really sad

nooo I liked Nadine...who tf just snaps people's necks like that tf

Xaden warding her room so he's the only person who can come in COMEDY

SIMP

hehehe he wrote her a letterrr

violet lying to everyone about her feelings about Xaden except Tairn is so funny...like who's the dragon gonna tell

Xaden is winning every award ever rn bc 1. he's hot as hell, but 2. he's like I wanna sleep with you so bad, but I won't bc it's for the wrong reasons....honorable mf

literally FUCK VARRISH

Sloane needs to get her shit together and Violet needs to stop avoiding her friends

I'm like 80% sure they just got drugged but slay ig

called it...they were totally drugged

tairn comforting Violet about missing Xaden even though Tairn is the one with the bonded mate thing isn't being talked about enough

I would really love to know what those letters say...just saying, sharing is caring

I want to trust jesinia...I really do but it gives me a bad feeling

you let my babies see each other istg...violet is actively moving towards miserable without him

Imogen is slowly becoming the biggest violet/Xander fangirl and I love that for her

give it up Imogen...yall are friends

girlie just wants to be back in a library fr

period Rhiannan...don't put up with Xaden's shit....you threaten him like a bestie should

If Rhi and Violet don't stay friends I'll riot

ooooo don't mess with Tairn's kids...he'll bring that dad defensive

I'm so glad Violet is letting Rhiannan in..be besties again pls

HAHA "SHOWING OFF (MAKING OUT)" IN FRONT OF MIRA....ICONIC

"omg your falling for him" No matter how many times I hear that I'm media I will always be a sucker for it

"you're my only sibling" REALLY MAKING VIOLET SEEM LIKE A TERRIBLE PERSON FOR NOT TELLING MIRA ABOUT BRENNEN....UNCALLED FOR

tik tok says she finally just fucking forgives him in chapter 27... we're on 20, kick into gear people

at her core, Violet is really just like me fr.... 21-year-old girlie pop vibes for the win

damn the disdain for Dian is STRONG

Rhiannan wins the bestie of the year award....being the best even tho Violet is being a fuckass about not telling her things

DAIN FIGHTING ISNT GONNA DO MUCH BC YOU DONT DESERVE HER AND NOW EVERYONE GETS TO WATCH AS SHE BEATS YOUR ASS

see, I knew her mom was a bitch

Rhiannan and violets friendship rn makes me so sad

This aaric dude better keep his mouth SHUT

really looking forward to Xaden beating the shit out of Dain for the shit he just pulled

besties having beef in private...which honestly I feel like will be a good thing

"that isn't a secret" I love ridoc....also Violet why tf would you think that's a valid secret

them getting graded for withstanding torture is WILD

WHY DO YOU HAVE TO BRING DAIN INTO THIS VARRISH YOU BITCH

VARRISH YOU ABSOLUTE MOTHERFUCKER...I DESPISE YOUR SOUL

I hate dain to but I love him for that...thank you for being a rule-following asshat

two things: tairn constantly being like "duh your fine, I make great choices" is so sweet but absolutely hilarious....and Rhiannan being a slay icon is my favorite thing

WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU MEAN JACK IS BACK FROM THE ACTUAL DEAD....SHUT UP RIGHT NOW

I'm so ready to watch the Fab 4 (I've decided that I'm calling ridoc, rhi, sawyer, and Violet this bc they are so slay) kill jack again bc wtf

YES CHAPTER 27 I'VE HEARD GOOD THINGS ABOUT YOU

watch Mira walk in on them right now...that'd be so freaking funny

tairn and Violet's father-daughter bonding is my fave

tairn is a grade-A overprotective father... it's adorable

no literally....tairn is so over her 21 bullshit...I love them

I have no recollection of who Kaori is...but him standing up to varrish makes him my favorite

YES YES YES LET FAB 3/4 KNOW ALL THE SECRETS

ridoc having the vibes to give violet a hard time while his world was just flipped on its head is why I love him

also shout out to Imogen and Quinn bc yall are slay too

why did Jack save her life...go back to being an ass, not sucky jack is frightening

"argue with you about books? I only pick fights I can win" Xaden clearly knows his place

literally just sobbing at the Liam cameo

why does Varrish keep responding to Liam...is Violet talking out loud or like did he pull a jack

damn dain is just...redeeming himself...didn't have that on my 2024 bingo card

her mom redeeming herself too? damn we're on a redemption roll

very serious war book until someone says something like "show off" during an important meeting (cough garrick cough) and you remember that these bitches are in their 20s

Brennan, Xaden, and tairn: violet protection squad

ANDARNAS BACK YYYAAAYYY

YUH SLAY FOURTH WING

flame section is the iron section? One might say they're the iron flame....wink wink

patiently waiting for a sorrengail sibling reunion...pls bring Mira into the loop

YES MIRA BEAT HIS ASS

Mira beating the shit out of Brennan, Violet yelling at them to grow tf up, and ultimately Mira and Brennen rebonding over the ickiness of xaden/violet pda...the best sibling reunion EVER

"I have control" girl be so for real rn...the only time you use your power is when you're mid-orgasm, you're not controlling shit

Mira and Xaden being "let's overprotect violet" partners in crime...straight vibes

Andarna: The Hungry One (trademark)

oooooooo violets in trooouubbblleeee

jealous Violet storyline is about to be just as stupid as I'm keeping my friends safe by distancing myself Violet storyline

oh God not talking in 3rd person

"I wasn't in love with you then," *jim halpert camera stare* stfu xaden

DAMMMMNNNNN he's def being annoying but saying he's acting like dain is looooooowwwww

yeah cat just stfu...violet is better than you don't be a bitch

YOU WEAR YOUR HAIR DOWN VIOLET...TORTURE HIM BUT ISTG IF YOU LET HIM GET AWAY WITH THAT BS....

YESSS Liam mentions make me so happy...also I'm so ready for Violet and Sloane to bond

dain just bc you saved her doesn't mean you're not on extremely thin ice...stfu

HA, a length joke...I like Maren

IF YOU KILL RIDOC RIGHT NOW REBECCA, I WILL HAUNT YOU

HES SAFE....fab 4 lives another day

cat's a bitch...that's all

Cat's a bitch...but you know who isn't? Rhiannan. gave her bestie the best fighting skills

well that's one way to combat jealousy

he really said "You were annoying and emotional last year, this year it's my turn" Live laugh love healthy relationships

fab 4 are my favorite group of fantasy besties ever....icons..every single one of them

I'm very very excited for the Sawyer and Jesinia subplot...also I don't think I'm opposed to a Dain redemption arch, he just needs to learn his place

"I might even be in love with him after that declaration" HA game recognizes game dain, love that for you

ROLL CREDITS

Garrick doesn't get enough credit for being just as awesome as Rhi....slay besties

girlie pop bickering with a side of danger mission and dragon obedience school...my favorite

HAH grammar jokes

"I get the feeling that this '2nd signet' thing is gonna be a BIG issue...like the plot twist that ends the book BIG

tbh I feel like I don't know him either so I get why she's mad at him

BRUUUUHHH he redeems himself with the "less than a minute" comment

tairn is girl dad...yelling at Violet and Andarna for their shit, yelling at Xaden for talking to Violet...girl dad icon

"Mom and Dad are fighting" See tairn and Sgaeyl are Mom and Dad

poor mama sorrengail...that's not the best way to break that news brennen you bitch

I'm really hoping Violet gets iron squad to go help bc them leaving the others to die is bullshit

they mentioned that the venin had runes, but they were confused as to how. cat is the best at them, and I really really really don't like how sus that is

everyone is so over Violet and her friends bc they're the only ones saying true things

YUH IRON SQUAD...my favorite squad of besties

FUCKING JACK

that was the most stressful thing ever read in my life...if Rhiannan dies I will never recover

I thought Sawyer was going to die and I started crying

YES ANDARNA BE SPECIAL AND SLAY

The fact the andarna hatched just for Violet is so sweet

you better not fucking sacrifice yourself right now violet unknownmiddlename sorrengail

DUMBASS

rip mama sorrengail...this was the redemption arch you deserved

violet breaking down to Rhi is EVERYTHING

FAB 4 LIVES TO SEE ANOTHER DAY (along with Imogen, Quinn, Sloane, Jesinia, Aaric, Maren, and Cat because yall bitches grew on me)

yay xaden's safe, was worried for a bit

IM SORRY WHAT NOW

I'M SORRY WHAT NOW

saying that xaden cant feel sgaeyl better be a fucking joke rn

FUCKING JACK

#violet sorrengail #fourth wing #xaden riorson #rhiannon matthias #iron flame #sawyer fourth wing #imogen fourth wing #mira sorrengail #brennan sorrengail #violet and tairn #tairn and andarna #tairn and sgaeyl #goodreads #live tweeting #quinn fourth wing #liam and sloane

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scarlet742 · 3 days

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READERS ! ASSEMBLE !!!!

So everyone is gloating about the throne scene, the scene of xaden’s confessions, the scenes of tairn getting offended or being a dad, the scenes where adolescence adarana is a mood, etc - WHY TF HAVE I NEVER HEARD OF ANYONE GLOATING ABOUT THE SCENE WHERE

TAIRN BITES IN SOLAS’ NECK TO ASSERT ULTIMATE DOMINANCE AND BRING VARRISH TO HIS KNEES AND APOLOGISE TO VIOLET !!!!!!!

That ma- dragon !!! Made sure that he knew better than to not mess with his silver one !!! DIDNT CARE ABOUT THE EMPYREAN !!! AND DAMN THAT HAD ME RATTLED !!!

This is more then just biting in neck to bleeding.. there are ways for animals to show meekness or submission.. for most it’s their belly- it is a direct signal of submission which is done in fear or a way of protection (like humans on knees) and when a more dominant animal goes for the neck that directly means that he’s either going to bring the victim to publicly be tagged as prey or is directly going for the kill-

AND TAIRN TO DO THAT ! Not only in front of all the cadets but their dragons as well.. DUDE THATS A LITERAL EMPEROR !!!

And I can’t help but think- sgaeyl won in life.. not only she has a literal emperor or so of a rider who matches her menacing tactics but a male dragon who is a literal emperor and is capable of brining down the whole of dragon kind to their knees just for the sake of a message… AND HAVE A CHILD WITH THE SASS OF THE TIME !

Fck being Violet- I WANNA BE SGAEYL !!! 😮‍💨🤌

#sgaeyl #tairn #tairneanach #tairn and andarna #violet and tairn #tairn and sgaeyl #xaden riorson #violet and xaden #xaden and sgaeyl #violet sorrengail #andarna #violet and andarna #xaden and andarna

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wingedshadowfan · 7 months

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some basic ya/fantasy/romance tropes that fourth wing took a spin on, imo (spoilers)

-weak and dainty female character trope - while violet is physically smaller, weaker and gets injured easily, we find it's due to a disability she was born with and there are two main ways she goes about this: she trains hard to become stronger, wherever that's possible, and also uses disability aid (because isn't that what Tairn's saddle is? the shorter daggers too, to some extent) which i think is so important and much better than her refusing that aid/never getting it in the first place, she takes no shit from characters who look at her like there's something wrong with her but she also knows her own body and its limitations

-the demsel in distress female character trope (similar to the one above) - because of her physical disadvantage and her lack of preparation for the riders quadrant, violet gets saved/protected by others in many situations and even gets accused of "hiding behind strong men", but as the book - and her training - goes on, she begins to stand her ground more and more, earning herself the nickname "violence" and making up for any physical shortcomings with intelligence, stubbornness and fervor, hard work, skill and good character (the reason why tairn and andarna both chose her, the former giving her a crazy op signet), so much so that she ends up single-handedly offing the guy who accused her of not being able to defend herself

-the enemies to lovers trope - unpopular take but violet and xaden were never truly enemies! despite it being marketed that way. at least not on xaden's part - his dad didn't kill brennan and he's known this (him responding with "hardly" when she said they were even when they first met at parapet), we don't know if he knows this but while lilith did "catch" his dad, she was against forcing the rebellion children to watch the executions too. so violet basically started off as a nuisance to him (she was never strong enough to be a problem - he thought the parapet would end her for him if need be), after watching her for a while - seeing the mismatched boots, her collecting berries, flinging the daggers, choosing to keep his secret, poisoning people, defying all odds - he even made sure the other marked ones wouldn't try to kill her either, which he easily could've just stood aside and let happen, because she became interesting to him, again through intelligence, skill and kindness, and the (mutual) interest and attraction developed into feelings; on her part it was a bit more difficult because she knew less and felt like everyone was out to get her, her most trusted people had warned her about him so she naturally kept thinking he hated her and wanted her dead - but other than him moving her squad to fourth wing on parapet day he'd made no moves indicating he wanted to harm her and had consistently been helping her instead; they never hated each other personally because they didn't know each other and when they really got to know each other, they just found respect and admiration for the other

-the good guy/bad guy/good girl love triangle (though it's usually more of an angle or a choice the girl needs to make) - in the very very beginning i was rooting for dain because i love childhood friends to lovers and i thought running from the riders quadrant could be a turn the plot takes for violet, i also personally didn't see myself finding a guy who wanted me dead all that sexy (even less considering his dad killed my brother), especially when he's apparently a cold blooded murderer, emotionally unavailable and generally quite threatening, but i am well aware there's a specific demographic who would eat the dark moody ripped bad guy up and leave the "boring" soft cute nice good guy childhood friend in the dust - that's a trope i despise and i'm so glad that here a) violet fully acknowledges, despite being physically attracted to xaden, that he's toxic and she shouldn't like him because he can't meet her emotional needs. and i don't remember characters from other books with this trope being so delightfully intelligent and self-aware (which is important because otherwise you're basically selling young girls the idea that this is okay and that unavailable, dangerous, messy men are hot and you can fix them - violet doesn't even try to fix him, she sets a firm boundary and forces him to fix himself and get his shit together if he wants her!) and b) it turns out xaden and dain's roles are actually reversed, with dain being much more toxic, manipulative, hypocritical and crossing boundaries he shouldn't be, while xaden is more supportive, attentive and caring, protective but not coddling, and while he's not ready to admit a lot of things to himself just yet, he's got some self awareness going for him too and he's sworn to do better (so rare in such books)

#fourth wing #rebecca yarros #xaden riorson #violet sorrengail #dain aetos #riorgail #iron flame #fantasy #romance #young adult #new adult #the empyrean

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contententhusiast · 6 months

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Fourth wing thoughts

1. Violet says her dads heart gave out right after Brennan “died” - was Brennan responsible for keeping him alive?

2. Why were violets mom and dad together in the first place? (Seem pretty opposite)

3. Do the commanders inside the wards have some kind of alliance with the venin to take out the griffon ppl

4. Fewer dragons willing to bond - because Navvare leadership is becoming corrupt and the dragons don’t like ?

5. What really happened with Brennan and Naolin? And does Tarin know Brennan and by extension knew violet before all of this

6. IS NAOLIN ALIVE AND NOW A VENIN BECAUSE HE REALIZED HE COULD BE MORE POWERFUL THAN AS A RIDER (I,e violet mentions being able to resurrect makes you a god) maybe the reason Tarim hasn’t bonded with anyone since Naolin is because he doesn’t want another power hungry rider but violets willingness to protect the weak and compassion ensures him she won’t be like that and that’s why he chose to bond again- Naolin wanted her moms favor aka power and his power is similar to how the venin work- also they mentioned a venin teacher so it would make sense that

7. What is the deal with the silver hair of the sorrengails - is it related to vi’s weak body - does it have to do with venin like power

8. Violets mom isn’t as bad as we think maybe working with the rebels in some manner

9. Did Brennan tell Xaden stories of violet?

10. Xaden is an intrinnic. Violets head always prickles. Tarin tells him not to read him.

11. Imogen has erased some of Violets memories I.e montserrat

*** what are dragons said to respect, ruthlessness strength - it would make sense as one of the most powerful dragons in existence Tairn would bond with someone who fits those qualities. Which leads me to believe His first rider Naolin was powerful, strong, cunning, perhaps a bit power hungry.

Naolin: we know his power is syphoning. He has the ability to absorb power from “other dragons other riders and then use it or distribute it” this is eerily similar to the way venin operate. They take power from the land instead of from the sky so it stands to believe that if he was that powerful and had a really good grip on his skill set which I’m assuming he did then he fundamentally already understands HOW to draw power like a venin

- when violet is talking to professer about how tried to Naolin save Brennan violet asks why someone would do that professor says people Fear her mother but also want her favor aka power. It would stand to believe that anyone who saved General Sorrengails favorite child would of course be granted her favor and more power in their hierarchy.

- Also when she’s talking to the professor about Naolin Violet mentions that being able to resurrect would make someone a god I.e the most powerful thing in existence

- When violet goes through her book of fables from her father there is mentioned that the bond between a dragon and a rider can turn against the rider if they try to pull too much power

- “A dragon without its rider is a tragedy. A rider without a dragon is dead.” - I’ve been thinking about this quite a lot. We’ve seen how a rider will die without their dragon (RIP Liam 🥲) but generally a dragon whose rider has been killed in this story is fine and eventually rebonds. The only mention of a dragon not bonding again is Tairn and that’s said because “the bond between Tairn and his last rider was so strong” but as we’ve found out the understanding of why dragons bond is not very well understood and I wonder if that’s just another speculative as to why tairn never bonded

- The venin students knows about all the power violet has as tairns rider

- My thoughts are, not to say Brennan couldn’t have been important to Naolin, but I think Naolin’s main goal is power. He wanted to save Brennan to prove he could be a god and was the most powerful rider. He wanted to move up in rank by impressing their mom. Whatever

- I think when he tried to save Brennan he was drawing so much power that A. The bond with Tairn tried to turn against him

- B. It nearly killed Tairn or he was taking all of Tairns power and almost drained him similar to how feather tails can gift their power and if the rider uses too much it will kill them

- I think however that all went down the bond between Naolin and Tairn broke and Naolin realized he could draw from the earth as a venin and be more powerful since he already knows the rope. Unlike with the dragons there are no constraints to his power.

- This also would explain as to why Tairn wouldn’t bond again until violet- because what do we know violet isn’t the typical rider she’s considered weak and fragile in the physical sense but we see plenty of people tell her how she’s smarter than her siblings and how that is not the only weapon there is. I think Tairn chose her because she’s strong but in a different way and is willing to defend the weak but also she’s willing to die for them too. If what happened with Breanna almost killed Naolin but he didn’t want to die if makes sense Tairn would respect someone who It makes sense tairn wouldn’t want the normal rider type after all that happens with Naolin. Also why Andarna would bond her too. They know Violet isn’t power hungry and won’t abuse power and she’s proven it time and again

#just posting my og fourth wing note somewhere to have the time stamp before iron flame #fourth wing thoughts #weee can’t wait to see what happens #y’all no one is supposed to read these they’re for my own enjoyment to see what I got right

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