I know I’m poking the bear with this one but I’m not going to lie, it makes me exceedingly uncomfortable when I see JC portrayed as a “good uncle” to LSZ of all people. The kid whose family was actively murdered by the guy. The kid whose death the guy actively called for even after knowing that A-Yuan was an innocent toddler. I don’t hate JC, and if you do like this fanon relationship then more power to you, but it’s genuinely something that makes me cringe to see.

This is not gonna be a Jiang Cheng bashing post, imo, but it will be a JC critical one.

I’ve read the novel, but not watched any of the shows. So if I say something that doesn’t line up with the shows, but does with the novel, that’s why. That’s where I am pulling from.

So anyway, I like Jiang Cheng. Fanon Jiang Cheng, where he’s a tsundere angry grape.

Canon Jiang Cheng is someone that constantly yells and screams, threatens violence, IS violent, is a serial torturer/killer, and is just. Not a pleasant person to be around. Pretty sure he is kind of a shitty sect leader too, I seem to recall an innkeeper talking about how he never goes on night hunts unless someone dies? Ugh.

I honestly do not see how you can have a yunmeng bros reconciliation with canon Jiang Cheng. I don’t LIKE to have a reconciliation with canon JC, to me it lessens WWX’s character to have him make friends again with someone who WHIPPED AND TORTURED people for thirteen years. Maybe if you go for a canon divergence early, at the cloud recesses or maybe even the Xuanwu. Once he strangled WWX for, you know, having the absolute GALL to be alive when his parents were dead though? That’s pretty much the end for me, I can’t stand the guy after that, unless that’s what shocks him into realizing that he is in fact a terrible person and needs to act better.

Oh but he has trauma and his sect was just destroyed and his parents died! And? LXC had that happen and he didn’t strangle Wangji. Vice versa. They are brothers.

Not to mention him constantly threatening Jin Ling. Hated that the whole time too. Hecking awful. Canon JC is a terrible man.

Fanon JC is awesome and some people write him great and I can really enjoy stories where he is tsundere and not actually hateful. Where he realized his family is kinda toxic and treats WWX better.

Just…I hate post canon fics that take canon JC and then try to patch the relationship up and WWX and JC turn into friendly loving brothers. It just doesn’t work for me.

Okay I’m done. I don’t feel like arguing with internet strangers but I know that Jiang Cheng is a controversial topic sometimes so if you wanna go off, that’s fine. But like…maybe provide evidence other than ~he had trauma~ because so did literally everyone and the only other person to kill a sibling was Jin Guangyao.

Ok so like

This is by no means an insult, attack or anything of the aort to you personally, i enjoy your content and opinions and i fully mean this respectfully....

But i find it so interesting that some people can hate a particular character and not read fics about them?

Like, from my first interaction w fandom in general, i could read any relationship/ plot/ ooc as long as it is well written. Even if i hate canon characters, i can usually read them in a positive light. Hell, i can read any JC fix as long as i know if it's positive or negative so i know what to expect

And then i found tumblr discourse

Again, this isn't something I'm criticising, just an observation I'm curious abt, since detachment from the source material seems to be so scarce fandom wise

Ok, so - here's the thing. The problem isn't fans loving JC and writing him favorably. If that was an issue, many reasonable people in this fandom wouldn't be so miffed about it.

The problem is - we can't avoid them. You said it yourself, "as long as i know if it's positive or negative so i know what to expect"

We don't know what to expect.

Everyone wants to tailor their fandom experience. You mentioned you can read almost anything as long as it is well-written. That's a good thing because it opens up the entire fandom for you. But some people have specific tastes and triggers. They would want to look at the content they like and avoid what they don't like.

That isn't possible in this fandom.

I write canon characterization of JC. I am forced to tag is anti-jiang cheng. People write fanon characterization of JC. They don't tag it Jiang Cheng-friendly.

We get fics where JC is suicidal and people are gaslighting WWX - making him feel insecure - in the main Wangxian tag. And that is presented as ok for JC to do. They say it is suicidal JC, they don't mention that JC, Jiangs, and everyone is gaslighting the fuck out of WWX.

Then we have a perfectly good fic that we get invested in and find ourselves in a hole where WWX has crippling self-esteem issues, the Jiang family is abusive, but is brushed aside. There's no tag mentioning OOC WWX with self-esteem issues.

We have fics where Wangxian cheat on each other - with JC. And there's either one or more abusive partner involved. Partner abuse isn't tagged.

We have fics where all of WWX's morality is transferred onto JC. But JC isn't tagged as OOC.

THIS ISN'T TAGGED.

In fact, we have people using deceptive tags like angst with happy ending - Wangxian only for the happy ending to be for WWX to die at the hands of his abusive spouse. Again, no warning. The problem is so common and so many readers are blindsided by it that people have told me they clock out of the fandom because of it.

It isn't something as simple as an attachment to the source material. I am the last person to say fanon characterizations aren't allowed. I have been writing fanfiction for over two decades. Fanon characterization doesn't bother me at all.

There are fandom olds, good people, who will tag fics that are favorable to JC as JC-friendly and I don't think many of us have an issue with them. The problem starts when it becomes difficult to find a good fic where a canonical antagonist isn't allowed to walk all over the canonical protagonists. It is difficult to find a fic where everything that makes WWX so great in the canon is turned over until he only has surface characteristics of WWX but underneath that surface, he's someone we don't know.

Detaching yourself from the source material is one thing. But do you know many fics are out with WWX or LWJ having a bucketful of mischaracterizations? I have a near-crippling problem with depictions of severe self-esteem issues. I was drawn to WWX because, despite everything, he doesn't have severe self-esteem issues. So many fics include WWX with low self-esteem, severe self-deprecation without tagging? Because they consider it canon? I noticed that because I'm sensitive to it. But there are things I am not sensitive to, but other people want to avoid. Those things aren't tagged either.

It is frustrating for people who want to experience fandom, who want to be comfortable in fandom, but somehow have to deal with poor tagging, strange characterization, abuse justification, morality discussions, etc.

Fan content longer a favorable space for many fans. There are only so many fics you can clock out of before you start feeling completely disgusted by the situation.

So the response to all of that shit? Create a fandom vent space where people who do not like all of these things can come together, vent, and share their thoughts on. Venting in the story's comments section or in the author's space is bad form. A venting to people who have experienced similar things away from the creator's space? Fun and good form.

Also, added bonus, every time I see a meta, discussion, or answer an ask that forces me to think - my understanding of characters improves and I incorporate it into my fics.

to conclude - people can be detached from the original source material. But you bet people will rebel when someone tries to shove them in a particular direction. The more stans try to shove people in the direction of fanon characterization, the more people who like canon characterization will cling to it and defend it.

That's human nature.

All of this discourse? A response to being shoved and forced to bear fanon interpretations with complete disregard.

As people keep saying, the Chinese side of the fandom doesn't experience any of this shit.

Also, to clarify - I mean none spitefully or disrespectfully, despite my blunt language. This isn't a criticism of you or your ask, but of the state of this fandom.

[1/?] Sorry for venting. I just saw some bad takes that gave me a lot of feelings. Personally, JC stresses me out every time he comes on screen, but I don't mind it when JC fans say fan-typical things like how they like JC because he wears purple, or is grumpy, or they think he's hot, or that they ship x*ch*ng because the cql actors have nice jawlines. They're harmless, fun takes, and while I don't agree with some of them, I see where they're coming from

Hello there anon, vent away as that is what my blog is open for as I love/hate on Jiang Cheng as he is in the plot, as well as all of my beef with what has been done to him for the EN side of the fanbase! I am more than fine listening and engaging with the unsavory "unpopular" discussions of his canon behavior and this goes for anyone of course that needs an open play area. I'll try to engage with what you have sent point by point as succinctly as I can.

[2/?] (some of these are obviously crack, and I am a fan of a few problematic faves). But then there are stans that just have to put other characters down to make JC look good. Like, I think some fans take their freedom of interpretation for granted because most of these takes aren't even labeled 'headcanon,' 'ooc,' or 'crack' anymore. Stans feel that their interpretations are valid, and while they are, valid =/= canon, and they're treating these takes as canon, which becomes popular fanon.

I enjoy Jiang Cheng for what he is, however as I had said it took me another reread to get to my stance of him being the negative mirror to Lan Wangji's positive and my comfort with that for the story once I realized what purpose he served. He is only insofar tragic in regards to his circumstances, but it does not absolve him for what he is at his core (no pun, but I can make a very nice metaphor that even with a piece of Wei Wuxian in him he is still forever unable and unwilling to stand by him equally all while stagnating where as Lan Wangji is able to flourish, grow and mature with nothing of import left from Wei Wuxian in a technical sense). As for ships, I am a little dirty Xicheng whore for fun and can say there is a sense of entertainment for me making it work with two people where one is wildly ignorant and the other wildly rabid. But that is outside of what is established as canon in the work and I always try to keep the two strictly separate due to the skew fanon perpetuates.

3/?] And now, it's not clear what part of the fanon references canon JC or the canon events of mdzs. JC is an asshole; I don't like him as a person, but I do think that he's a complex character motivated by many issues (sup, YeeZY), which makes him fascinating to explore. Unfortunately, erasing his culpability also removes his agency. JC should be allowed to be an asshole character who makes his own decisions even if they're the wrong ones. He has made his own tragedy by constantly casting Wei Wuxian as the villain of his life.

Now thanks to you I will be using YeeZY to forever and now to acknowledge Madam Yu (this is your fault for the new tag). From a standing from storytelling I agree that he is complex in the Jianghu for MDZS. Where in the usual political intrigue of Wuxia, he would be the mustache twirling villain that is outright unforgivable in narration, it is by favor of Wei Wuxian's narration that has an early steeping of empathy for him. And he is not meant to be seen as ultimately sympathetic, the work builds up his hate against Wei Wuxian who tries to rationalize it all several times until he is finally unable to. Jiang Cheng is the antithesis to Lan Wangji and the false bait to get attached to in Wei Wuxian's first life. I will make the note their meeting in Yiling is lukewarm between both as they exchange nothing really in terms of conversation and all pleasantries are left in terms of Jiang Yanli for Wei Wuxian. By this point Wei Wuxian has already switched his yearnings of platonically wanting a part of Jiang Cheng's life, to subconscious romantic inclinations about Lan Wangji and the perceived loss of being in the other's life.

The very point of Jiang Cheng as the deconstruction, is that he has no passion in life despite his apparent exploits because he put a shadow to hang over himself as an excuse to say others think he is not good enough. He has no deeper motivations than pure selfishness by the end of the work and is pure frivolity that he has built up losing the meaning of his sect as a tradition. He had his agency (more than anyone I might add in the work due to his social position) that he used to build his reputation as a passive rich sect leader that has little to do with civilian problems.

4/?] And I think a JC, somehow, that realizes that he did something wrong and is working hard to change for the better and gain self-actualization to become that UWU best jiujiu the stans want him to be, who is ready to talk (not yell at) with WWX, apologize to him, and create a better, healthier relationship with him is a much more powerful reconciliation and happy ending than 'everyone is wrong and mean and they all apologize to JC, which magically gets rid of all his issues'.

He is forced out of culpability in reconciliation because simply put, his audience do not like the reality that relationships fray and dissolve with no further resolution other than we as adults both need to move on for safety and good health. It is not acceptable in real life and fiction is allowed to place that also in it's thematic relationships. He has a small, small spark of recognition at the end of the main story, however he himself seems to choose to ignore it, as change is hard and he has never taken to that well as was foreshadowed with his dogs and the idea of sharing a space with Wei Wuxian. To write this is an awful lot of work into his psyche which is not a nice place, he is a terrible being and downplaying that to make a sugar sweet person does not work instantaneously. He is the one responsible for the entire fallout with Wei Wuxian and he hysterically realizes that even as he tries to continue to blame Wei Wuxian.

The issue that I have with his current stan culture, is that they already view him as something he is not. They play at bicycle with all of the other protagonists that have positive traits that they strip as they see fit; Good affirming loving to children adult Lan Wangji, Self-sacrificing ultimately did it all for love and care Wei Wuxian, Hard exterior but softened to who they consider an annoyance Wen Qing, Loyal as partners in their exploits on the field and always have each others back Wen Ning. They even take Jin Guangyao's persona of playing damsel and using that as a positive to soften up Jiang Cheng into something he has never been for anyone for ships.

[5/5] Also, making WWX/WN/LWJ apologize just makes them look better than JC. Like, stans supposedly love JC, so they ahouldn't be lazy and work hard to give him actual character development. Again, I'm sorry for spamming your ask. It just really baffles me about where they get these 'hot' takes (All I'm going to say is that JC was ungrateful, and WN had a reason verbally dismantle him).

They see this, but, they will spin it in any way to excuse Jiang Cheng due to the story itself showing that he was in the wrong to everyone he flung accusations at and his hate. No one but him is at fault for his spite as he had gotten his revenge on the ones that had ruined Lotus Pier and killed his parents. His own resentment pitted him against good and well meaning people that he refused to help as he mimicked his mother's words about raising their heads higher out of goodness instead of keeping low and staying self-centered. There is the underlying criticism of taking individual arrogance as self-care at the cost of others. Each point that Wen Ning makes is exactly what Jiang Cheng himself knows as he hated Wei Wuxian for being something he could not be or even wanted to be. Jiang Cheng wants kindness but does not understand that kindness to others needs to be selfless and accept the hurt that can come with that in life. He encompasses the fall from the path of buddhist lifestyle, "The Three Poisons" to Wangxian's "Without Envy" at the stories end.

[6/5] P.S. I'm not saying I want reconciliation fics, but I just feel that if stans want JC to have a happy ending, then I think that he should actively work for it. I think it would be interesting to see what force of nature would push him through a character development because throwing a therapist at him would result in a murder.

"I'm not saying I want reconciliation fics, but I just feel that if stans want JC to have a happy ending, then I think that he should actively work for it."

They do not think he has to work for it, they say his tragedy is enough, while heaping accusations against Wei Wuxian and saying his own are not enough to absolve him. Something Wei Wuxian has never denied and told all present they are allowed to forever hate him for what he had done in the past, but that they need to find a way to live in a life that is always moving on. He learned that grudges do nothing once they are absolved and it leaves you with hate with nothing else to do with it once that object is gone. In terms of reconciliation, I do not ever think that either want anything other than a distant peaceful out of each other's life set up. Jiang Cheng does not need Wei Wuxian in his life to be satisfied and never has since he used him as the handicap to hide behind to stay angry and miserable. Being without that fallback opens the world far more for him to change than him ever interacting like an old friend with Wei Wuxian ever again, if he ever had the guts to do that.

one fandom pet peeve of mine is when ppl bring up jc whenever anyone writes an interaction between jfm and wwx. god just because jfm and wwx are having a nice interaction in a fic does not automatically mean that jfm hates jc. fanon has warped these relationships so much that any positive emotion jfm shows for wwx is taken as evidence of his favoritism even when the author is not writing them this way. i was so neutral toward jc when i entered this fandom a year ago, he was not my favorite but i didn’t hate him either and i could grow to like him in fics but now i seriously am starting to hate him. almost everything surrounding how the fandom treats him is starting to become pet peeves for me

Honestly, that’s the thing! I genuinely would not give a shit about JC if it was possible to ignore him in the fandom! But you so much as mention someone related to him in a fic or a post or a drawing and it’s all “Oh, JC, let’s talk about JC!” No! No I don’t want to talk about how great JC is! Fuck off! Like, not to bring up my own fic again, but the fact that I got comments about how “Oh WWX and JZX just need to understand poor JC” on a chapter where JC is accusing them of incest is the perfect example of this thing where you just cannot get away from people expecting you to be super into JC, it is genuinely ridiculous. And yeah, you so much as mention JFM saying good morning to WWX and you get people crawling up out of the woodwork to talk about how sad it is that JFM likes WWX soooooooooo much better. I may be exaggerating, but not by much. It’s just... this thing where you can all but outright say “Yeah I hate JC with every fibre of my being” and as long as you don’t cross the line into actually saying that with words people will still expect you to be planning to make him a main character who everyone loves? I hate it. It’s bad. Let’s not do that.

MXTX really said JC isn't exactly evil? OMG, I love it. You know, I consider myself a JC stan, but part of being a fan of his character means accepting him for who he is, and not making excuses for the things he does. And although CQL!JC is different, there is still an underlying current of resentment that runs throughout the entire series. I think they tried to make that scene where WWX dies ambiguous, but upon watching it again and paying attention to JC, his expression after WWX falls isn't one of horror--it's more of quiet relief, relief that HE didn't have to do it. And at the end, it's pretty obvious to me that he intends never to speak to WWX again. His pride and resentment is too strong, and he's been at it for far too long to ever go back. CQL softened JC, but I think fans are choosing to ignore the darker sides of his character. And that's fine, but don't write meta on it and insist that your opinion (which sometimes sounds more like an AU) is the right one.

The relevant part when she talks about him, the relationship between the two, and what she thinks of Jiang Cheng,

Male Host: Okay, next question. A reader asked: Does Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian really have a friendly relationship? And was Jiang Cheng’s actions really a result of hatred? What is the Jiang Cheng that you envisioned? Some readers dislike Jiang Cheng.

墨香铜臭：据我所知，好像江澄……嗯，他是有粉的，而且粉黑在评论区大战还挺厉害的。所以……就……所以我觉得还是挺多人喜欢他的嘛，就并没有……就并没有人把他……就并没有很多人把他当成绝对的坏人。至于他对wifi是不是仅仅是朋友的感情，我觉得这种问题吧，就……就比方说，我觉得有些读者可以不用看到两个……就拿晓星尘跟薛洋来说吧，晓星尘和薛洋好像也有挺多人感觉他们之间超出了那个普通的感情，但是其实晓星尘和阿箐之间的那个感情呢会更亲密，但是为什么就没有人把他们往BG情那方面想呢，所以我觉得有些读者可以不用对这种男性与男性之间的那种感情太敏感哈，就一定要把他们之间感情都解释为……就往那方面去想。其实有的时候你不要简单粗暴地把它定义为那方面的感情的话，角色之间的关系有更深的可塑性。

MXTX: In my mind, Jiang Cheng does have some fans, and these fans are really vocal about him. So, I think there’s a lot of people who like him. They don’t treat him as the bad guy. And it’s not just a simple friendship with WWX. I think their relationship is complicated, just like Xiao Xingchen and Xue Yang. Let’s take those two as an example. Xiao Xingchen and Xue Yang have this impression on others, that it’s not just a simple relationship. But honestly, Xiao Xingchen and A-Qing are closer, but no one has thought of them in a BG relationship. So I think some readers don’t have to be this sensitive to a gay relationship. You don’t have to explain everything as romantic. I think that if you don’t reduce everything to a romantic relationship, the characters would have more depth.

Female Host: So in MXTX’s eyes, what is Jiang Cheng like?

墨香铜臭：我眼中的江澄……我眼中的江澄，就……其实没怎么样，我写文还是比较客观的。我看他……我看他就、就像是在看一个作品。

MXTX: The Jiang Cheng in my eyes… The Jiang Cheng in my eyes… I see him as a product, a project.

女主持：如果让大大本人来介绍江澄这个人的话，你会怎么介绍他？

Female Host: If MXTX were to introduce this guy, how would you do so?

墨香铜臭：我觉得他是一个负能量比较……重……的人。

MXTX: I think he has…many deep flaws.

女主持：这么简单吗？

Female Host: That simple?

墨香铜臭：对，负能量比较重，但是也不是个、也不是个十恶不赦的人吧。对。

MXTX: Yes. His flaws are pretty serious, but he’s not an evil person… yes.

女主持：嗯。

Female Host: Hm.

The original transcribed post and translation

CQL Jiang Cheng is much softer than his canon novel rendition, who we are also given an introspective look into that CQL does not allow us. His thoughts in the book are much crueler and sadistic when we are given them where as because the medium they chose for CQL, his thoughts are left as more ambiguous to a certain extent.

He still proceeds to retain all of his hateful actions against Wei Wuxian, despite the expanded bonding time, he still strangles him, decries him and enemy of the sects, shuns A-yuan, and is the one ultimately leading the call for his death that had been premeditated even with squishing Nightless City and the Siege together. In a way it made him worse since the novel had kept the barrier of his arrogance between him and Wei Wuxian, since the novel made a noted point of him othering Wei Wuxian as something not family.

CQL added a more pronounced bond and it felt like Wei Wuxian falling to his death was not only because Wei Wuxian was driven into a corner to save Lan Wangji, but it had also given Jiang Cheng an out of his guilt of being able to say he had been trying to kill two people at that point who he despised, hence that little misinterpretation of him being "morally grey". Being called "not evil" doesn't mean a person can't be naturally awful, his disposition even to strangers is caustic and cruel and Jin Ling, who is the one he's supposed to love unconditionally is not exempt from his attitude driving him to having a self-esteem complex and is a product of Jiang Cheng not really understanding him or providing him with the nurturing he needed.

I adore canon Jiang Cheng, I like digging into his story since it makes for very good themes. They just aren't as sweet or good-willed as so much fanon meta wants him to be.

I'mma be real honest with you I find WWX dynamic with JC more interesting than Lan Wangii. Lan Wangii a good supportive husband and I love reading fics for Wangxian but I wished fic authors would dive deeper in JC and WWX relationship that formed in canon and not have their brain be muddled with fanon JC.

I feel like WWX and Jiang Cheng realtionship to be twisted sense of love and possession on JC part not WWX obviously. Their relationship pretty dark in canon ? And honestly the one trait I'm actually happy for JC was he didn't develop into wanting WWX body to be included in his list as well? 😅 They were raised as brothers tell me if WWX was more distant from JC from the beginning would the disaster struck as hard?

I admit this is why the fallout of their friendship in canon is so interesting for me personally, the ugly part of it is very realistic and MXTX did not shy away from the fact that Jiang Cheng was not good at all for who Wei Wuxian was a as a person (i.e him being one who was naturally kind, willing to forgive to remember the happy things done for him and loyal. I think this is why Lan Wangji balances him out since he is willing to be the one to step up to let the forgiveness part not overstep into letting Wei Wuxian be walked over again by Jiang Cheng specifically).

Now if there was a romantic aspect ever, I do think it would make Jiang Cheng 10x more disgusting then he already is. Along with a thankfully unexplored dynamic of Wei Wuxian ever being sexualized. I think it also helps to explore that any sort of relationship even platonic ones, can be unsalvageably awful despite caring (more so on one parties side) and it can come from anyone who has that much of their own self-hate and selfishness they project it on the ones who are holding a hand out.

I don't think it would have been in Wei Wuxian's nature to stay distant to anyone he is in close proximity with, and unfortunately, Jiang Cheng had been the one for him to meet first as his first significant friendship. In that way it was just as inevitable as his love for Lan Wangji was. Theirs just isn't the happy end that Wangxian was able to achieve as is realistic with growing and distancing relationships.

As for my interest in it, I can say I am far more of a sucker for the happy end that Wei Wuxian is able to achieve then the pain he was put through before with the Jiangs.

I just found a chengxian blog and checked out a fanfic - just to see how they worked around wangxian - I’m always curious and sometimes this kind of thing gives me insight I didn’t realise was present - but jfc, the delusion is real.

Now I know, it’s bad form to go look for this stuff and shit on a ship, and I’m not shitting on the very concept of chengxian. Hell, before the fall of LP, I could even see something? Something unhealthy and all sorts of unbalanced but okay sure. And AUs of course. Either way, to each their own.

But these post-resurrection or even worse, post canon fics are hilarious.

Because suddenly we’re all forgetting just how gone WWX is for LWJ because they have similar interests (music and literature), morals (you know, being good) and have always been equals (in talent) - and instead we have WWX being a miserable drunk and hating CR because LWJ gives in too easily, he doesn’t have enough pushback to stimulate him (are we forgetting how this relationship started?) and it just baffles me.

Why it baffles me is the lack of awareness. Do they actually believe this? I mean, I’ve read some XiYao fics and some of those shippers are very well aware of the effed up dynamics at play. Sure, they mess around with it, give Yao some benefit of the doubt, make a lot of canon divergences, but these guys just see everything through opaque rose coloured glasses and somehow try to justify it and I don’t really know how they function...

Btw I’m a CQL only but with a healthy respect for the other forms but CQL really did mess with minds when you see JC clapping for WWX during the archery thing (albeit with a constipated smile and he didn’t even participate) while the donghua which is closer to the novel clearly shows us that he was upset at not winning himself - this is apparently a very clear sign of his adoration and of course justifies how he basically led to WWX throwing himself off a cliff because the irrational grape would have led to both wangxian falling.

Just🤦🏼‍♀️

I'm dealing with a migraine so hopefully what I put here isn't too mean in regards to this ship.

I don't in anyway care what others ship given that I myself lowkey ship ridiculous things that have no romantic basis in the material (and given I respect the author I see exactly what she means that none other than the purely romantic pairs shown in MDZS are meant to be seriously interpreted as romantic in canon). But hey, I like shallow, I like the effed up dynamic in NieYao and XueXiao and like the shallowness of X!cheng for fun what if's. But you (general you but for the stans specifically) have got to admit when something is just for shallow fun without demeaning the real work itself and hate the main core of it and changing the dynamics to be so wildly OOC because you are personally salty (You look like a major Karen doing this shit and are fucking adults sounding like those middle school shit heads).

I also have a whole fanon conspiracy that Jiang Cheng works as a false love interest and as an unrequited fucked up crush/obsession since I personally feel it adds more to Jiang Cheng's depths in terms of exploration for FAN works.

"Do they actually believe this?"

Yes, they honestly do believe, in all their tiny galaxy brained power that this ship is somehow superior and has romantic chemisty along with needing to have been the focused CP. I will point out it is really not even what I would consider a popular pair given it has just under 2k on AO3 alone for the Western base along with the Untamed/MDZS having the largest audience for Danmei works there. Lofter itself has it's own top 100 ships with Jiang Cheng's most popular being X!cheng by a large margin similar to it's Western stats.

If we breakdown it's rankings for both

AO3: Rank 2 of overall ship works 2020: Wangx!an

Rank 55: X!cheng

with ChengX!an being too low in numbers to rank in.

Lofter overall ship works 2020: Rank 1: Wangx!an (with X!anwang ranking again at 66)

Rank 13: X!cheng

Rank 48: Xiancheng (and yes this is a very important distinction as it denotes the "dominate" one in the pair)

If we were to mesh these together with tumblr stats in a similar way the overall would still be Wangxian ranking high as Rank 1 in the Untamed/MDZS tag, overall ships Rank 13 and the only MXTX pair to be featured.

After that digression, regardless of the interpretations, even with Wang ZhouCheng he himself only played up the sibling aspect of the relationship as was in script, it does not have the supposed chemistry they speak of when they slap the Wangx!an one on it. God damn if I have to see this Cuckji shit from these shippers one more time my eyes will roll on the floor and melt from the stupid, which is ironic since Jiang Cheng himself was the canon Cuck who's bro got swept off his feet by the canon Chad. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Jiang Cheng through several passages in the book shows that his downfall was his jealousy of Wei Wuxian as his own person that did not listen to him specifically but it was never in terms of romance at the base of what MXTX was showing simple as that. This was shown with Wei Wuxian's interest in Lan Wangji, him saving Lan Wangji and to a point MianMian, as well as the Wen Remnants because it simply left Jiang Cheng what he considered more work and trouble. He cared about Wei Wuxian in so much as Wei Wuxian didn't make a splash for the reputation of Yunmeng Jiang while hypocritically having made use of Wei Wuxian during the war and turning around to be jealous of the devotion Wei Wuxian had during that time due to the attention Wei Wuxian garnered. Jiang Cheng simply did not think he had to extend some sort of actual good will to Wei Wuxian since he felt he had given enough of that just by the sake of Jiang Fengmian taking him in as a disciple and raising him. HOW you get Wei Wuxian having romantic inclination out of this, I can't say as I am not enlightened enough for the wonders of ChengX!an and apparently want to fuck MXTX who I have never met or know, or, want to fuck the very gay leads (who do not exist) despite being a lesbian.

I think the biggest reason Fanon JC gets so irritating is because it’s been getting harder to find fics that actually explore his real character. Obviously people can write what they want, but there’s so much downplaying his faults no matter what story setting it takes place it drowns out everything else and usually it’s not something that’s tagged so you can’t even filter it out.

I want to read reconciliation fics that involves JC facing his flaws and realizing he needs to do better. I want fics where JC realizes if he ever wants even a civil relationship with WWX, he needs to accept his marriage and work more at letting WWX go. I want fics where JC realizes while he may have tried his best, he still failed JL so badly by being bitter and hateful in front of him.

There’s so much to explore and grow with JC postcanon that could be really interesting with his canon personality but so much is now just disappeared under saying him and WWX are equally to blame, JC being watered down to be more likeable or him suddenly in a relationship with LXC or NHS.

For a character people like to say it so complex and compelling to explore, there’s really no fics that actually stick with the complex parts or actually try to explore how he can grow through his canon flaws.

Yeah, this massive oversimplification of JC’s character is the worst part of the whole JC Defence Squad thing. They say he’s a complex and compelling character, and then they strip away everything that makes him so. There’s no exploration of his flaws and how those affected his life, no discussion of his part in driving WWX away, no realizations where he comes to terms with how badly he failed JL no matter what he intended... It’s always “Actually JC never did anything wrong, shut up” or at most “Both sides are as bad as each other, stop talking about how JC repeatedly tried to murder WWX and spent over a decade murdering him by proxy over and over again”. It’s just so boring. Let’s have some depth, if you don’t mind!

Re Guanyin JC, true, I always forget how WWX never had a non abusive relationship in his past because it's so sad! So that's definitely a worry, but a big game changer imo is that after his rebirth, he isn't persuaded he has a life debt to the Jiang abusive family for fostering him and to JC for "stealing" his place in the family by being too good which guided many of his decisions in his past life. He had lived with the Wens who loved and respected him and LWJ choose to stand by his side 1/4

(Wens sibs also did), Jc revealed his true colors re genocide of people who saved his life  (and WWX is good at resenting insults to others and not to himself)... Jc knows it hence why he's brandishing the promise and the debt to the Jiang as an argument, and not love or brotherhood. In canon, I'm nearly sure WWX won't come back by himself if JC doesn't make at least a given gesture which of course with his pride, anger and blaming others for his own faults, he'll never do.  2/4

Even with nice fanon JC, as you said, people can only imagine JC wanting WWX back, not WWX deciding to rebuild the bond lol It galls me how fans are persuaded that WWX (or JL or poor LXC in the popular ship) just need to learn that coming from JC insults, blame, anger and rejection means love and learn to navigate and degrade themselves enough to make it work. No, it's abusive and JC must learn to stop it first and 3/4

work on his trauma before being let back into polite society? YZY doing it is bad and abusive, but when JC does it, it is not because ...? 4/4 

Hey, it’s not that he never had a non-abusive relationship in his past! He had JYL, who couldn’t do much about his situation because she was a child (even if she did end up having to pretty much raise him) but did clearly love him and want him to be happy. But between her genuinely not being able to do a lot to help him and, let’s face it, her love for both her brothers blinding her to how downright cruel JC could get, in the end he still ended up with approximately zero sense of self-worth.

Re. the deaths of the Wens, I’m pretty sure WWX has convinced himself that JC really couldn’t do anything and it wasn’t his fault, never mind that JC led the siege. I don’t blame him for that; JC is pretty much all he has left of his old life, and WWX really does love him. Blaming him won’t bring the Wens back and it’ll destroy any hope WWX has of getting some small scrap of his childhood back, so it’s easier to just... not. It’s not necessarily the best way of dealing with the whole situation, but... it’s understandable. Of course, the other part of his reasoning (”It’s actually all my fault because I killed JYL (never mind the person who actually stabbed her) so of course JC needed to get revenge (never mind the fact that he was at the ‘let’s kill WWX right after saying we wouldn’t’ party to begin with)!”) is... infinitely less healthy.

I think people look at WWX saying “Oh, he’s insulting me out of love and it’s all playful!” and take it at face value? I mean, playful insults are a thing; see WQ and WWX’s dynamic, which is mostly snark with a solid core of trust and affection. But WWX has convinced himself over years that JC’s insults come from a place of love and care because the alternative is that his brother always hated him, and he can’t even bring himself to consider that possibility. WWX is not a reliable narrator! JC’s style of loving insults is constantly putting down anyone who even looks like they might be better than him, and it’s only considered loving because WWX, who thinks the way YZY treated him was okay and justified and all his fault if you really think about it, says it is. Because, again, he has zero sense of self-worth and is just full of self-loathing, so despite his skill and outward arrogance there really wasn’t much left for JC to degrade. A good example of this is how WWX really does want to rebuild their bond, but seems to be under the impression that that’s his responsibility and it’s all his fault their relationship went south, as if JC didn’t abandon him, call him a traitor to the sects, show up to pledge troops to try to kill him, lead a siege to kill him after their sister died to save him, spend thirteen years torturing to death anyone who reminded him of him, tried to kill him again the second he suspected he’d come back to life, and then when that didn’t work deliberately triggered his cynophobia for “proof” even though he already knew with 100% certainty that that was WWX and so it was probably just for funsies. And that’s not even getting into all the shit he does before and during the Sunshot Campaign!

As for it being bad when YZY does it, an irritatingly large portion of the fanbase seems to be under the impression that her being an abusive bitch is actually all JFM’s fault for not bowing to her every whim and being head over heels in love with her, so...