#Jeanne was a student of Ruthven
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Are we not gonna talk about both Jeanne and Noé being found as orphans, adopted by loving couples who died when they were children, then getting forced into some kind of slavery, being “mercifully spared” by very powerful noblemen vampires and kept crushed their thumb for future use, being directly asked by cursed family friends for death, failing to kill those family friends, and now really want to either literally or metaphorically fuck Vanitas?
#look into my fucking eyes#all of the VNC characters are students of major factions#Vanitas was a student of the church and Luna#Noé was a student of the shapeless one#Jeanne was a student of Ruthven#And I posit that Domi is a student of the De Sades collectively#we have a grand total of ONE healthy teacher-student relationship#vnc jeanne#vnc noé#the case study of vanitas#vanitas no carte#vanitas no karte#vnc
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When Ruthven talks to Noé in the cafe, he mentions how he used to teach students until they were all killed. Then he touches his eyepatch. Probably bc whatever injured him also killed his students.
Well, in gevaudan we see Ruthven go from two eyes to one over the course of his visits to Chloé. Whatever happened in those years, likely the human/vampire war, was what killed NOT ONLY his students, but also his ability to empathize with humanity (and the reason he bites noé later)
Ruthven what HAPPENED to you!?
#i hate him but hes so interesting#also his little bite hypnosis power#looks so much like charlatan#vnc#august ruthven#vanitas no carte#the case study of vanitas#EDIT: also#Jeanne addresses Ruthven as “professor” in the dub#hmmmmm#was she a student at one point? child of a student? idk man#WHO ARE ERIC AND LOUISE#edit2: my own question is answered in ep14 OOPS#the answer is yes btw#vnc meta
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I have a theory regarding Jeanne's family: What if the reason why her family was killed by the Vampire Council was because they were the ones who killed Vanitas' family?
Interesting thought, but I don't think that works with what we already know.
(from mémoires 32 and 39)
Jeanne's parents were killed because they betrayed the vampires' war cause. Ruthven arranged a peace talk between humans and vampires, and Jeanne's parents, Ruthven's students, betrayed him in order to work with humans and kill the vampires assembled at that peace talk.
Plus, even if that reason turns out to be not entirely true, Jeanne's parents were killed before the Beast of Gévaudan incident, which means they were killed well over 100 years before the in-universe present day. As much as his backstory is mysterious, we have no reason to think Vanitas was alive back then. Jeanne's parents couldn't have killed Vanitas's dad because Vanitas's dad probably wasn't even born yet when they died.
#vnc#vanitas no carte#theory#or well. the lack of a theory in this case lol#ask#anon#sorry to rain on your parade anon#I prefer to 'yes and' people. but in this case. as interesting as going down your road could be for angst and theme#it just doesn't line up with our current lore#also I don't think they'd make Jeanne a bourreau as an extension of her parents' punishment if they had just massacred humans#it's the Most Severe Punishment y'know?#and I don't think the vampire senate is likely to valume human life#ID in alt text
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Let's talk Ruthven and Noé
What do we think he is going to ask him to do ? I am of the opinion the oath is not what's gonna kill Vanitas. There are so much more build up for a mercy kill or an accidental "I couldn't catch you while you fell" kinda thing.
We know that Ruthven picked a side between the humans and vampires and considering the fact that he is very much working with the extremists of the church who are trying to exterminate all vampires and Charlatan which, seems to have the capacity to eliminate a lot of vampires quickly if the corrupted person goes full on murderous in the Other dimension (see Louis's murderous rampage), Plus the fact that Moreau's research could be used to turn vampires back into humans instead of what Moreau is doing and Jeanne's parents which were his students got killed because they sided with humans. I think it's not a reach to say that he is very much siding with humans.
So... That said, what would he need Noé for ? Is it something to do with the Church?
#noé archiviste#august ruthven#vanitas no carte#the case study of vanitas#vnc#les mémoires de vanitas#vnc noé
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Jeanne Theories (but more like questions)
A dump for all my questions and theories about Jeanne. In the manga, the third chapter is named after her (Chapter 1 is Vanitas, while Chapter 2 is Noe). Arguably, you could say she’s the third most important character. Among all of the main characters, her past seems to be the one we know least about. This actually ties to my questions relating to vampires and their ages.
I am a bit confused about how aging works with vampires and how that reflects physically. We have Noe and Dominique who are chronologically the same age as Vanitas. Assuming nothing goes wrong, human Vanitas would die of old age (except we know that isn’t the case), while Noe and Dominique would look physically the same how many years later. Jeanne’s age wasn’t intentionally revealed because I think it ties in with the plot, but we know she’s centuries older than the main cast. She’s been with Ruthven since before the betrayal, and grew up with Chloe. This is where it gets confusing for me. Chloe became a vampire at four, but physically stopped aging at eleven years old. Jean Jaques was also a hidden vampire changed by Babel but he ended up growing and looking older than Chloe (at least physically). Same with Jeanne. She and Chloe met when Jeanne was younger than her, but Jeanne grew up to look like a young woman. I’m curious as to the difference as to why it was only Chloe who stopped growing physically at around eleven years old, although she’s older than Ruthven.
Jeanne’s link to Luna of the Blue Moon
I don’t think the line above is a throw-away line. Jeanne was of Ruthven’s time, and we find out that Luna had also seen her, specifically during the time of the Great War. She left that big of an impact on Luna that they would retell the story to Vanitas (and I presume Mikhail too), which had that much of impact on him as well.
They removed this context from the anime which makes it as if Vanitas heard of Jeanne through stories, except we know from the manga that it was more personal since he heard it from Luna.
Why exactly did Luna have admiration towards Jeanne? Was it because she was slaughtering Vampires of the Red Moon? But contrary to the rumors, recent chapters would show us that Luna didn’t seem to be a vengeful entity or hold ill-will toward Vampires of the Red Moon.
Luna was also probably the reason why Vanitas felt an initial connection with Jeanne. Like with his hourglass earring, the name, the book, the gloves, etc., despite their complicated past, Vanitas seems to be (consciously or unconsciously) maintaining a link with Luna.
Jeanne’s Slumber (possible connections with Sleeping Beauty)
Why was it necessary for Jeanne to sleep all this time? And why did she have to wake up now, at this exact moment in time? What exact thing does Ruthven need to use her for, and for what purpose? Because let’s admit it, Lord Ruthven is shady af.
It’s also ironic how Jeanne reads Sleeping Beauty and places Vanitas in the princess’ position, when she has more in common with the fairytale. Having to sleep for a hundred years, her mark is that of a rose with thorns evoking the imagery of ‘Briar Rose’ and the spindle, while her epithet ‘Hellfire Witch’ evokes imagery of the evil fairy who could turn into a dragon and breathe fire (admittedly I may be focusing on the Disney version too much).
We know she’s named after Jeanne d’Arc, a martyr who was burnt at the stake (please, please, let this not be foreshadowing of how she dies) hence the connection to her epithet ‘Hellfire Witch’, but even disregarding how vampires (and perhaps humans as well?) have true names, Vanitas says she was ‘bestowed’ a saintly name. We know she was adopted, and we don’t know the circumstances of her birth which are shrouded in mystery, but could Ruthven have been the one to grant the name ‘Jeanne’ to her?
If not for the fact that we already had Florifel and Eglantine in the first chapter, I would have thought Jeanne’s true name and malnomen if she gets one later would be connected to the fairy tale of Sleeping Beauty.
Jeanne’s Malady
The vampires in Vanitas no Carte are different from the stereotypical portrayals of vampires, except for one - Jeanne. Jeanne has that uncontrollable desire to drink blood, and yet as of now, doesn’t appear to be a curse bearer. Based on her patchy memories, we can infer it was Ruthven who made her like this, is the one to supply her with her sketchy medicine, all the while forcing her to swear not to talk about it.
Is she in the same predicament as Loki, Luca’s older brother, forced to have the symptoms of a curse bearer and yet being prevented from being cured, by Ruthven? For what greater purpose? Why is it necessary for Loki to be a curse bearer? And more intriguing than that, why is he consenting to it? It all relates to the Queen somehow, something which no one is privy to except the Oriflamme Family.
Sleeping Lions
Who could Marquis Machina be referring to? Everyone in the Oriflamme family, and by extension Jeanne, have connections with the imagery of lions and fire (they seem to have an elemental affinity like how Luca displayed, except that Ruthven’s is black fire, which makes me wonder what color Loki’s flames would be if ever). Jeanne can’t seem to manipulate the World Formula like Ruthven and Veronica though. The flames come out of her gauntlet, Carpe Diem.
In relation to that, I think Misha’s patron is Marquis Machina. In the same way, Marquis Machina built Carpe Diem for Jeanne, I think he built Misha’s hand and dog for him. I mean Marquis Machina doesn’t seem to be working with Ruthven and Charlatan. His pieces seem to be the kin of the Blue Moon (Vanitas and Misha), the dhams, and the De Sade family. It could also be that the De Sade have their own agenda and are just using Marquis Machina or it’s just a mutual beneficial arrangement. If so, an eventually power struggle is bound to break out, possibly between the De Sade and the Oriflamme families, and poor Jeanne will be caught in the middle. Where then does the Shapeless One play into this? Perhaps a third faction? A silent observer? A loyalist to the queen? There’s still too little information to theorize.
Who could the Sleeping Lion Marquis Machina wants to see wake up be?
Jeanne, Faustina, Luna, and Naenia
It could just be a stylistic thing, but the long flowing light colored hair seem to be common among all of them.
In relation to Pandora Hearts and its themes of will and what measure is a person, what if the Jeanne that we know now is just a consciousness inhabiting a body (kind of like Oz and Jack), specifically the queen’s body to be exact. It would certainly be foreshadowing to when she says ‘promise to kill me when I’m no longer myself anymore’.
Alternatively, the current Jeanne we know may just be a vessel or a golem to house the Queen whose body has deteriorated. It certainly would explain why she was treated as a doll even in her earliest memories. ‘Jeanne’ isn’t supposed to exist.
Although it’s a long shot, since Ruthven has connections with Charlatan, and by extension Dr. Moreau, could ‘No. 70′ have been Jeanne? Again like I said, it’s a long shot. I think it’s likelier that No. 70 is a character we haven’t been introduced to yet.
Jeanne’s Parents
This is a Mochizuki work. Of course, there’s got to be something to it. Why exactly did they side with the humans so suddenly in the war? What horrible thing did the vampires do to have over a thousand of their kind turn against them? And yet the way it reads, rather than betray Ruthven, I think Jeanne’s parents along with all of the vampires who were slaughtered were sacrificial pawns. Maybe I’m just really biased against Ruthven, but I think he was the one to lead the rebellion of his students, and like Chloe, although he presents himself to be an ally of the current Vampire Monarchy, perhaps he’s just biding his time to get revenge for his students. In working with Charlatan, it’s vampires who he’s harming.
What greater purpose could he have in wanting to assassinate his own nephew or ally himself with a known vampire extermination unit of the Chasseurs (Gano and his ilk) or in killing so many vampires by having their true names corrupted?
Face to face with Noe, we see in their meeting that Noe says the exact same words Ruthven told Chloe when he was younger. Noe reminds Ruthven of his students, while Ruthven reminds Noe of his teacher. I’m not really sure where I’m going with this, but it seems like the Ruthven of now scorns his past self’s moderate and progressive ideals of vampires and humans living in harmony. He speaks of our side, your side, and Noe having to choose one or the other. And yet all of his collective actions at this point have served not to protect but rather harm vampire kind, which puts him in direct opposition to Vanitas who wants to save vampires.
In relation to Jeanne, there will be a boiling point. She’s loyal to Luca and she’s loyal to Ruthven. She’s incredibly fond of Dominique. As of now, she also loves Vanitas. And yet down the line, inevitably Luca and Ruthven will be on opposing sides, so I am curious to see how the betrayals and conflicting loyalties will play out.
#vanitas#vanitas no carte#vanitas theories#vnc#vnc jeanne#jeanne the hellfire witch#vanijeanne#sort of domijeanne too maybe#noe archiviste#ruthven oriflamme#lucius oriflamme#dominique de sade#loki oriflamme#so many thoughts#and I'm so excited to see how everything plays out#we're just scratching the surface of vanitas' personal history#but I'm excited to see how everything ties together and the political intrigue#as of now the character I'm most interested about is loki#vnc spoilers#vanitas no carte spoilers#so may questions about jeanne#ramblings about vnc
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VNC Anime differences Part 3
What episode 15 skipped.
Spoiler warning ⚠️ this may contain scenes that were moved to later episodes in the anime so anime onlys read at your risk!
Understand this is not to hate on the anime but to show what has been cut and changed in this adaptation.
Machina's first visit and his first time meeting Chloe was cut.
Machina explaining what became of Ruthven and Jeanne. Why Jeanne was made a bourreau. And Ruthven's students betrayal.
Machina's offer.
These lines were removed.
Ruthven's dialogue here was cut.
End of part 3
#vanitas no carte#vnc#the case study of vanitas#vnc spoilers#vnc manga#les memoires de vanitas#case study of vanitas#memoir of vanitas#vanitas no carte manga#vanitas no carte spoilers#manga differences
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I’ve been thinking about what sort of oath Ruthven had Jeanne swear because really, she’s like the one person I would think he wouldn’t have to force to do something.
Chloé was older, more powerful than Ruthven and had a formula altering device he wanted. That makes sense that he’d want power over her (though she managed to deflect him and his power).
Noé is the last Archiviste, a very useful power, and is the closest person to Vanitas, who wields the Book, and has close ties to the de Sades and the Shapeless One. Plus he’s pretty powerful in general. Of course, he’d be the perfect pawn for Ruthven to use in the right circumstances.
But Jeanne? Yes, she’s undeniably powerful but she was basically already in the palms of his hand. She was the child of his students and she greatly admired and respected him. She was placed under his command as a borreaou. She already does what he wants with her only mess up being letting Chloé go.
So seriously, what the hell would he want from her?
i wondered when i was reading the gevaudan arc if it was to do with having to kill chloe/put a stop to "the beast" incidents, & i do find jeanne seemingly gaining autonomy after rejecting that command to be intriguing.
the order to put an end to "the beast" incidents by ruthven was still something very important/significant, and i hope we find out more details soon.
i feel like part of that command was bc ruthven was bitter he couldn't curse chloe, since ordering jeanne to inadvertently kill her seems quite cruel considering their past.
but, for the oath, that seems to be too specific.
noe's oath was broad, yet very vague. clearly something he can use whenever for anything... so, yeah, what Could he possible want from jeanne?
it's quite curious for sure. i feel like there's going to be some twist that reveals a lot of the events we've seen & events that are yet to come were planned significantly in advance, by ruthven, teacher, & both other significant players we've been shown & ones we haven't. & whatever ruthven made jeanne swear is tied to the ultimate plan.
#vnc#anon#answered#i literally have no clue what it could actually be w such little information granted so far#whatever it is though ik it's gonna hurt
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“Why does this fandom treat being a love interest as some kind of demeaning role? Yes I’m talking about Jeanne. No I do not think that she is JUST a love interest. She very much has a character and backstory outside her relationship with vanitas you all just refuse to see this (she was adopted by Ruthven’s students, she seems to have been trapped somewhere as a child before being adopted, she has made an unknown wish with neania, her entire story with Luca, her entire story with ruthven), but anyway there’s still NOTHING wrong in her having a love story being central to her character. It does not make her lesser in any way. There’s nothing wrong in her being LOVED and her LOVING someone romantically. Literally why do you all do this?? Loving someone isn’t a writing flaw. Who says you can’t have love being significant to your development as a character?? And anyway her romance with Vanitas is as important to her character as it is important to Vanitas’s. As much as Jeanne is Vanitas’s love interest, Vanitas is also Jeanne’s love interest. The entire main cast are love interests to someone. This fandom is just very hypocritical when it comes to Jeanne, I think it’s very much a personal problem you have with her and it likely stems from ship wars along with her being a kind and soft female character. Admit it. It’s very obvious.“
#vnc confessions#jeanne#vanitas#ruthven#naenia#confession#shipping discourse#tell me if you want me to add extra tags
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VnC meta theory ish thing: Naenia and Ruthven
(yup, you guessed it, more about Ruthven, the only thing I’ve thought about for the past two months)
So I was rereading Vanitas no Carte and trying to piece together a timeline of the main events in the manga (coming soon) when I noticed something interesting.
Back in 1672, when Ruthven tried to curse Chloé into sharing the D’Apchier’s research with him, he was having vivid visual and auditory hallucinations. This is verrry interesting because the only character who is known to cause others to have these vivid hallucinations is the one and only Naenia.
So it seems like Naenia is giving Ruthven these hallucinations. Before this I’d assumed that the incident where Ruthven was betrayed and lost his eye involved Naenia and led directly to his becoming her ally, but I’m starting to realize that this is (probably) not the case.
Naenia is still trying to force Ruthven to give her his true name. She shows these hallucinations to people both as a distraction (Astolfo) and as a way to force them into giving her their true name (if Chloé was having vivid hallucinations of murdering Jeanne every day, I would not be surprised if she handed her true name over partially just to make it stop).
I’d guesstimate that after Ruthven was at his lowest point; betrayed by his students and the humans he trusted, severely injured and near death; Naenia realized that he could be a very useful pawn and started tormenting him with both hallucinations and promises that she could help him achieve these goals.
Naenia gets vampires to give her their true names with this combination of psychological torture and offers of their greatest desires. She couldn’t get Louis’s full name until he realized he was unable to protect Dominique and Noé from Mina. She nearly convinces Noé to hand over his true name by promising that she would take him to see Louis.
My question now is whether or not Naenia has corrupted Ruthven’s true name. Has he given in and used Naenia’s power to stop the war between humans and vampires at the cost of his own existence? Or is she still trying to get his name? Or have they made some sort of deal in which Ruthven will work for Naenia without giving her his full name?
I’m still not sure what the answer is, but I kind of think that Ruthven hasn’t given up on his original goal. When he attacks Chloé and tries to get her research, was he trying to use it for revenge? Or was he still desperate to stop the war? Ruthven never explicitly says that he views humans and vampires as unequal. He merely says that he was foolish for thinking that “we could understand each other”. Even when he drinks from Noé he doesn’t say that Noé’s views are wrong in some way, just that he “won’t do”. Ruthven tells Noé that he understands his views. This might be ludicrously idealistic but I think that somewhere in his mind Ruthven still hasn’t given up on keeping the balance of power between humans and vampires stable.
as to why he joined a group called the vampire eradication gang and planned to kill his own nephew well.... let’s just say those are counter arguments.
So what does this have to do with Naenia? I think it means that no matter how their relationship panned out (at the moment I’m guessing that they have an agreement that doesn’t involve Ruthven’s true name) Naenia and Ruthven both believe they can exploit their relationship to further their own goals. Ruthven might be using Naenia to keep humans and vampires equal, or he could be fully on board the pain train and want all vampires to die or something. And I think Naenia hasn’t given up on Ruthven’s true name either.
fun fact:
a little while ago I made this post about Ruthven and Jeanne’s relationship. I guessed that Ruthven does feel emotions, he just chooses not to pay attention to them or let them color his actions. to be quite honest if someone was having vivid hallucinations of all their greatest fears on the daily I think that might be a very useful coping mechanism.
#vnc#vanitas no carte#the case study of vanitas#august ruthven#vanitas no shuki#les memoires de vanitas#meta-ish#naenia#ohhh boy another one#i know it says ‘dhampirs’ on the blog name but at this point all im talking about is ruthven#this is what happens when im trapped in the house with nothing but manga to overanalyse
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Vanitas no Carte – 06 – His Lordship’s Guests
We learn the amorphous distorted-voiced monster isn’t named Charlatan, but is someone named Naenia who is merely part of Charlatan, when Noé is broken out of his jam by Vanitas, while Luca is protected by a no-longer-thirsty Jeanne.
The three-monster team of Charlatan decides to skedaddle before “The Queen’s Fangs” show up, and Domi rips her dress to provide protection for Vanitas while he deals with the remaining curse-bearers in the palace. One of them, a young girl, is to far gone, and Vanitas has to turn her to ash.
Here little old me I thought Domi was flamboyant; turns out she’s scared shitless of her big sister Veronica, who is the aforementioned Queen’s Fangs. Easily wearing three times her mass in fabric and a black fox mask, she unilaterally decides that the stinky mortal Vanitas is responsible for this fiasco, and decides to literally put him on ice.
Nothing and nobody can stop her and her crazy eyes…except the timely arrival of one Lord Ruthven, who cracks her mask with one tap of his pimp cane, then chides her for such an “unbecoming show of power.” Just like there’s always a bigger fish, there’s always a stronger vampire, huh?
Ruthven is ready to dispense some quick justice upon the on-ice Vanitas for turning the little girl into ash, but Noé comes between them and calls Ruthven out for not knowing remotely the whole story. Rather than angry, Ruthven is amused, but also chastened by the young buck.
He introduces himself a a member of the Senate in service of the Queen, then melts the ice to free Vanitas. But after his ordeal with Naenia and the attack from a Veronica who was not holding back, Noé finally collapses from exhaustion.
In his dream Noé’s tucked into bed, holding the hand of his Teacher, and curses himself for forcing his hopes and ideals upon Vanitas and feeling betrayed when he didn’t live up to them. The Teacher clarifies the mission he bestowed upon his student: not to determine if the book of Vanitas is a threat, but to meet those whose paths cross it, and judge it on his own terms—terms in which the Teacher clearly trusts.
When Noé wakes up he finds Vanitas perched atop a clock tower like a gargoyle, sulking. When Noé mentions how sometimes Vanitas looks like he’s “given up on something”, Vanny pulls a knife on him and says he wants nothing to do with him. Noé comes back by saying he’s never remotely liked him.
But as the sun rises between them, Vanita’s anger turns to more brooding, and Noé, feeling like he just might understand his companion a bit more, gives Vanitas a cool smile and says he’ll be remaining by his side for the time being. This comes as no surprise, as we know someday Noé will kill Vanitas…or will he?
By: magicalchurlsukui
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I’ve been gathering details regarding the VnC timeline from the Gévaudan arc:
???: Babel
Between 1550-1600: Chloé is born. Ruthven is born after her
Before 1670: Ruthven and Chloé meet, Chloé and Jeanne meet
Around 1670: Ruthven is betrayed by his students. Jeanne becomes a Bourreau
1702: The war between humans and Vampires ends
Around 1752: Chloé and JJ meet
1765: French soldiers are dispatched to hunt the beast
Around 1780: Jeanne is sent to kill Chloé. Chloé disappears because of her malnomen and is presumed dead. Jeanne sleeps for 100 years.
Around 1889: Present time
So that would make Jeanne around a hundred years old, not counting the time she was asleep? Jean Jeacques would be around 150 years old as well. Ruthven and Chloé would be around 300 years old.
Seeing this what surprises me is that Domi and Noé were stated to be 20 and 19. That would be incredibly young for vampires.
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Ruthven, Teacher and Elemental Symbolism
Round 2! (hopefully this time tunglr won’t delete my post)
On Ruthven:
- he’s a characted associated with fire in several ways. One of them is his hair color
- Ruthven has fire powers
- Ruthven has the Grand Duke Oriflamme title. Lucas may be the rightful “possessor” of this title, but Ruthven holds all its power
- the way Ruthven expresses his rage. When you have pissed him off, you immediately know it. Vanitas nearly died twice by his hands
- Ruthven’s flashbacks
On Teacher:
- no one knows his true identity, because he constantly changes his name and physical appearance. Just like water has no shape of its own and takes the shape of its container, Teacher can be anything he wants to be
- elusive as vapor
- cold as ice
(he just killed his grandson and he’s smiling)
- Mochijun has referenced Pandora Hearts more than once in Vanitas no Carte, which leads me to my next point: when i see Teacher i can’t help but be reminded of Jack, a character associated with water and one of the biggest manipulators in PH.
Now, what do Ruthven and Teacher have in common? A lot, actually
- They both have nicknames: August and The Shapeless One
- They both are old, scary vampires who have been serving the vampire queen for some time now
- They both are teachers
- They both have a student they show affection to
- Ruthven and Teacher gave their students a special task: Jeanne is a bourreau, Noé must discover the true nature of the book of vanitas
- They hate each other
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“I have a theory. Ruthven said all his students died...however Jeanne is still alive. Jeanne also acted differently as a child than as she does an adult. The memories she has of how she met Cholé doesn't match up with what Chloé remembers. I'm starting to think that our Jeanne might be a clone of some sort!“
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